Truckee TBM 960 Crash in Icing Conditions 30 March 2024 

I lived in Reno 24 years and heard of plenty summertime VFR crashes at Truckee too. I dont disagree with your statement, though. I just want to share to readers that KTRK is not a beginner's place to fly, and requires extra special attention.

Is there something at that destination? Why do folks fly there?

That’s how it’s done.

@@WALTERBROADDUS Tahoe. Quite popular with Big Money. The ski resort season there is quite long. Very picturesque area with year-round outdoorsy stuff to do all over the area.

This was my thought... Why not just go to Reno. He never even had the chance for a second thought. What a shame for him and his passenger the day before Easter.

I’m suspecting the wings iced up and the plane stalled. I can’t imagine another scenario that explains the rapid decent prior to impact.

only other thing that makes sense currently is spatial disorientation, turned into a spiral. that and icing only make sense currently @@RealRickCox

@@RealRickCoxThat's my thought as well, heavy snow will get you down fast.

@@RealRickCox Yes ice could very well be a factor in those conditions. The operation of the auto throttle even if not engaged would prevent a stall by AOA activation and auto engage to advance power to 100% or so, and reducing pitch. It will prevent exceeding IAS limits for any configuration. A tailplane stall would pitch the nose down not up. In the 900 series the auto throttle use a FAM airspeed for conditions or as set by the pilot. Missed appraoch and go-a-rounds play a big part in the accident record.

Thanks Walt!

Such a tragedy! Was a very close long time family friend. We are all devastated and heart broken by the news 😔 I had flown with the pilot a few times and can say he was very knowledgable, safe, passionate, and proficient pilot. And prior to becoming a student pilot myself, I was both grateful for his enthusiasm and for inspiring me at a young age. All that being said.. never removes the full risks of GA (we all know that, and am upset by some of the naive and incentive comments I've seen across social media posts) I was wondering if Juan would post a video and glad he did. Learned a lot. May the two who perished in this accident, memories be a blessing 💙😞

Sorry you guys lost your friend

I knew the family many moons ago. Wonderful people. Love their boys! Was wondering if anyone knows what it would have taken for them to be able to land in Reno. I live by SFO and not sure what it takes for "small" planes to land on their runways. Any insight would be appreciated.

@@BubbaRooBelle No issue at all diverting to Reno. Most of time time there isn't even a delay. People like me land much smaller aircraft there all the time. It would have taken two words to the controller and a right turn instead of the left where they started on RNAV20 to Truckee.. and they'd be alive in Reno.

@@BubbaRooBelleit takes nothing. You tell ATC where you’re going and they say Ok here is your new route clearance. Small planes use big airports all the time.

Completely agree with your analysis. Very poor decision making and most likely over reliance on his new......goodies. Failure to use good common sense, unfortunately.

Well said!

and there was a challenger, or gulfstream(doesnt matter really) that crashed a few years ago during an approach also

“Harder to slow down and get down.” Did not know that. Interesting.

I’ve not flown into that airport, but simply reviewing the RNAV 20 approach plate made me pucker up. An approach that brings you down to minimums that for off the line of the runway is beyond “tricky”. No thanks.

That law of learning tops them all .

Great point.

I have 800 hours flying a king air 100 with only steam gauges and no autopilot in northern canada, you are totally correct. The primary safety feature is pilot decision making.

@@theaviator06 hats off to you! We still fly the steam gauges in our Bellanca ~nothing beats keeping up your “A” game than flying the gauges!

Good way to sum it up! Not just sad, but knowingly “rolling the hubris dice”.

That's what my CFII drilled into me. Add "single pilot IFR".

Worst casr scenario ever.

The reason why "I wanted to get back to my home airport" instead of diverting.

I believe it was daylight when it went down 7:21pm sunset

It was snowing quite hard in Truckee yesterday afternoon as well, but right at freezing, so not sticking a lot on the ground. My husband and I had just been watching the webcam around 4pm -- someone else, on a ladder, wiping snow off the tail and wings, trying to depart.

​@@Plutogalaxyactual observations prove you wrong

Daily Mail , pro soccer and wife perished, 4 kids at home. Liro

@@PlutogalaxyTahoe is 16 ground miles from truckee

Known icing conditions isn’t something I want to go into - even if I have a plane certified for operation in those conditions. Night time flying & bad weather are a recipe for disaster.

Couldn’t have said it any better

Can Rain-X (or maybe even a polish like Klasse) help? I've SWORN by it (BOTH, actually) on my vehicles for probably four decades now. Everyone else in heavy rain is face in the windshield, wipers about to sling off the car, and STILL obviously CAN'T SEE. I breeze by with PERFECT visibility with wipers OFF... the harder the rain, and the higher the speed, the BETTER 🙂

@@kentuckybowl-o-sticks Aquapel is much better than Rain-X. It is more expensive but lasts a lot long before it needs to be reapplied. It is used by professional auto racing teams.

​@@kentuckybowl-o-sticksAs far as I know planes dont have wipers or washer fluid. The reason RainX works is because it is being applied regularly. If you put antifog on your side glass or mirrors you need to doso weekly.

​@@RowanHawkinsplanes can have both. Doesn't matter if your windshield is clear when you only have 1/2 mile vis at night.

aaaaah the ice eatin mu2😂😂❤

elaborate pls@@AlanMydland-fq2vs

thats a doozy wooper for sure😂❤

Did he used to own a Pilatus? I once met a pilot in San Carlos who let us have a look at his Pilatus and he said he flew between San Carlos and Tahoe quite a bit. He remarked that he had just come back from Pilatus factory recurrent training and said that they put him through the ringer. He said that when you get done with factory training that you are well prepared for emergencies.

@@rael5469 I don't know, but there are a LOT of Pilatuses (sp?) that fly in/out of Truckee often, including many from the Bay Area.

@@jenniferroberts7581 Oh I see. Thanks for replying.

Even the best can have “ get home it is”. Old tragic frequent and unchangeable! Story!

@@thetacticalfuturist588 Sad but true. What a beautiful aircraft though. If I won the lottery I would consider the TBM 960 I think. Especially since it has FADEC engine control.

Did you hand fly the approach? The report indicates the autopilot disconnected and the aircraft stalled and rolled.

@@aerodarts I did hand fly the approach at a small margin of addition airspeed after I realized I was in serious icing conditions. Honestly, after I was on the ground and had a moment to inspect the amount of ice on the airframe, the icing was heavy enough I am not sure the plane would have kept flying had I been in that hold a great deal longer. I frankly was just lucky, I think.

Always report a conversation like that to the nearest FSDO. They need to know. Airport "management" has no business pressuring pilots to choose a route.

​@williampotter2098 Absolutely. As long as you are within regulations, you have the final say as pilot in command. I was once flying into a class g airport in Michigan, and made an announcement at 10 miles out. I didn't even hear anything back from anyone in the pattern. The airport manager came over the unicom, and told me I should stay away because they were very busy. I just continued on and landed as normal. There was only one other plane in the pattern. When I got out of my plane, the airport manager came up to me and asked me if I heard his warning. I said you are not a controller, and this is class G. Hit the road. He was very pissed, but just walked away. These people sometimes let their position go to their head.

@@williampotter2098 I did a report with our SMS system. It was almost 10 years ago so I'm not sure if there was any changes made.

Agreed, context is there is per usual a lot of noise complaints especially for jets and a more complex story behind the scenes. When it comes to your call, make the safe one of course.

smart choice and still alive❤

Get out of it , avoid N E sector of low pressure . Over open large bodies of water in winter..like the great lakes .

@@dennisstoesz what’s thinking about NE corner of low pressure??

@@Lifebackmedthe warmer moist air is being dragged up into cooler air .

​@@dennisstoeszcan you expound on this and correct the punctuation.

Spot on Ed. it might be up and out.

Reno...A nice steak dinner and a little gambling. Then get up and fly home in the morning.

Or Sacramento

My flight school at one point had a poster hung in the bathroom that said “It’s better to arrive late in this world than early in the next!”. The big call to action being “make your weather decision while you still have a choice”

Get-there-itis

I agree, a good idea for a trip in "Harvey" his 310.

Or just stream a flight sim of it.

Actually it's not difficult to comprehend at all. It's called "common sense". But apparently for this couple money couldn't buy them that.

​@@bernieschiff5919loader up😂

Great idea

Oh, but it can be so wonderful for skiing!

@@catherinenelson4162 - I'm envisioning that plane flying through mashed potatoes. The snow there is crazy.

The only 'good' skiing there is requires 70 to 100 degree temperatures a body of water and a boat in front of you. Don't believe me? Then go ask Sonny Bono...

​@@clintstinkeye5607, ......perfect description of the heavy snowfall in Truckee. Lived there 4 years in the Donner Lake area. The weather can change quickly there!

Seriously, that snow is freakin quicksand. No way in hell would I fly into that stuff.

anytime

People live near Truckee and want quick access to California and Reno, but it really is a tiny air strip. The smart thing is to pay extra and park at Reno and drive over as just about once a year someone crashes at this airport.

I agree. I work with 3d GIS/CAD data all of the time, and I don’t know how he brought those ADSB points in. I’d like to see that demonstrated, I was thinking that was cool also.

Sacramento airports were all reporting VFR at time of crash with ceilings 6-12K, surface temps around 15C. Another twenty minutes down the road and even easier to get into MCC, MHR, SAC, SMF, than Reno, which is also surrounded by mountains and is subject to much of same weather as TRK. There was a Winter Storm Warning for Truckee and surroundings...TRK is not a place to be messing around in low vis, and you throw in dynamic weather and you see the result...

im surprised to learn this pilot was a local. as evident by the comments, even some people just DRIVING avoided the sierras yesterday.....@@carlrossi7989

What an incredibly sad story .

News reports identified the couple as Liron Petrushka, 57, and his wife, Naomi, 58. Not trying to minimize the tragedy but I dont think their children are young.

Possible get- home- itis might have also been a factor here. Might explain pushing into known icing conditions.

@@Paul1958R No, that's a good point. I don't think you're minimizing. I didn't know their ages so wasn't sure how old their kids are.

@@RMR1 This couple was VERY wealthy (1/2 $B). Im actaully surprised they were flying in this 'cheap' ($5M) plane.

"Correctamondo."

Yes, like the saying - something about superior pilots not using all their superior skills by using good judgement (no judgement intended here).

I saw the same video, and having seen a few more from that pilot, wouldn't be too surprised if they have a serious incident at some point.

Which page plz? Interested is seeing it

@@dvpro1 Matt Guthmiller... TBM 840. formerly Bonanza around the world... TBM future 'around the world'..

Another thing of note ,icing is generally the worst in NE sector of a low pressure right where they were..Bad decision making all around ..May Jesus comfort familly and freinds in this difficult time of loss.

​@@blogengeezer4507what is the video title. Not clear from your post

This is a sobering reminder of why these are called "light" aircraft. Even normal rainstorms can really mess you up as they are really at the mercy of the elements. A full on blizzard? nope nope nope.

food for thought😮

Joshua, Good point, the TBM AOA is the heated stall warning blade. When it isn't heated you get a Caution Light. In this situation the poor pilot just had too much going on and very likely in shock as well. That being said, any automated system can/will fail. The Flight Director displayed on an HSI used in reference to Airplane Data symbol on the pitch level line can be used as an AOA, A TBM 900 series airplane will stall at 14 degrees regardless of speed, weight or configuration. When the apex of the flight director is at 13 degrees about the airplane data symbol you are in the buffet. This type of accident and that airport, like all mountain airports, happen much too often.

Sorry, who’s Hoover?

@@orbital1782pilot debrief channel

I must ADAMANTLY add a caution and reiterate what I've mentioned elsewhere in this discussion. Many people have stated how this airplane should have preemptively diverted to Reno. I don't know what the Reno weather was when this airplane was in the air, but with that said Reno may not be the greatest airport to divert to when your primary goal is to land safely and mentally regroup. I have been flying pretty much everywhere for 40 years, from piston singles to part 121. Reno is in many ways just another mountain airport. Yes, it is large with long runways, but weather systems passing through Reno commonly produce crosswinds from the west gusting to 40 or 50 knots, and the primary wind direction can turn on a dime, just when your fuel state makes it inconvenient at best to be vectored for an opposite runway. For 121, the engine out missed approach procedures due to proximity of terrain and altitude, even on the best weather day, are among the most complicated and critical I have ever dealt with. IMO, the next closest much lower stress airports in proximity to places like Truckee include Sacramento Metro and other Sac area airports where it's flat, sea level, and not that far away. For smaller planes, the San Joaquin valley provides a plethora of additional airports that are just as close. When I fly to Reno, I always try to carry enough fuel to go somewhere else, usually Sac Metro, whether an alternate is legally required or not. It is born out of real experiences. Bottom line, Reno is a fine airport, but for planning purposes I consider it a destination, not necessarily an alternate. I also have never agreed with, nor have I ever utilized, the Part 91 loophole of being able to attempt an approach when the airport visibility is below approach minimums.

@@wkelly3053 the temperature in Truckee was 33* and Reno being 1600 feet lower would have put the temp around 38* based on pressure alone. That would put the ceiling well above 2,000 feet and they built runway 8/26 specifically to deal with the high winds from the west that are common with weather. Not wanting to divert is a symptom of "getthereitis" and has killed plenty of pilots through the years, including these 2 apparently. I agree the loopholes are BS and should be closed.

@@lonnywilcox445 Yes, there is 26, and I've used it once in daytime VMC due to high westerly winds, but I still had fuel to fly somewhere else. Anyway, signing off. Take care.

Every time. Doctors and Bonanzas Syndrome.

@@theculturalmind My grandfather was a trucker (not from Truckee) who had about 700 VFR only hours and owned a 1960 V-tailed Bonanza. He was a very cautious pilot, didn't take chances, and didn't exceed his limitations. He passed away from years of short Lucky unfiltered Lucky Strikes.

That's why they called older Beach Bonanza's 'Dr Coffins', or 'Attorney Coffins'. Just because you might be right regarding your profession on the ground does not mean you are always right in the air! But you can't tell them that!

@@theburtseoni My grandfather was a long-haul trucker. Maybe that was as an advantage to him owning a Beech Bonaza.

That is sick! Hey, who's for dinner?

Didn’t one of the survivors of that open a restaurant? Interesting career choice.

My first thought was cartographer with a dark sense of humor, but no, it’s real! The signage reads “Donner Camp Picnic Ground - Historical Site”.

I have flown a Bonanza out of there at night. VFR to Johnson County. Never again . We hit mountain wave and could not get down and had to go as far north as Reno to get around .

No pilot regrets not bending metal or worse...

@@grayrabbit2211 Nothing chicken about making a decision that comes down on the side of safety. The. worst hotel room is better than trees and rocks. The best place to buy fuel is on the ground. Good job your NOT!

USN Retired Controller, I've told many to Bingo, Amphibs Navy San Diego

Thanks for your service!

@@kam1583 You also, loved my job. Keep yourself safe!

I know a lot of pilots. Don't know any pilots with gray hair who used the phrase 'I felt lucky' about decision-making .

@@nowayoutbutup3122 The old phrase all aviation people know: There are bold pilots, but no old bold pilots. In a different arena, I've ridden motorcycles for 60 years, same application.

Exactly. If you're not ready to hand-fly the airplane without advanced notice, you don't belong there.

@@apgardude --Very true. Automation tends to remove the pilot from the cockpit. Automation is great as long as one can still hand-fly the airplane at all points/phases of flight, and in poor weather, and/or during an emergency of any sort. Digital assistance does not mean automation dependent. As other pilots in this forum have pointed out, the PIC of accident aircraft really had no business trying to shoot the approach at or below minimums, with snow, and the terrain in that area. He risk stacked to the nth degree, and the penalty is sadly, terrible consequences.

About a 20 degree runway offset as well. yikes

5 strikes before even beginning the flight

near night conditions etc etc , if he used the 3 strike rule he would have never taken off or maybe he could have used an alternate field to land...

And at night. Strike 6?

@@mr.mcbeavy1443 yes, - jesus that flight should have never left

Inertial separator ? Turbine engines do not like ice intake --->

@@bobwilson758 yes you are correct the term

What’s it take to fly 20 miles in this performance plane , 5 mins ? Such an unnecessary crash .

It's called GetHomeItis....Gotta get home (or GetThereItis, gotta get there)

Looks like he was trying to CIRCLE TO LAND…

If he was doing that, he was also not following the procedure since that maneuver is done at 7120 feet.@@victorburns3620

@@victorburns3620 At 158 Kts ?

@@apgardude look how tight that turn is..not a standard rate turn for the MA and he flew way past the MAP. Dunno, but overlay the chart and look at his turn..not even close.

@@victorburns3620 I calculate about a 50-degree bank at that speed...

Great podcast series!

Still working my way through it, what a blast. Couldn't believe what I was hearing in the episode on the R101, the British airship that was supposed to transport the Hoidy-Toidy to the far reaches of the British Empire. Haha! What were they thinking??

Every pilot, every flight. DISAGREE!!!!

@@beckyumphrey2626 every pilot, every flight, and any humble and honest pilot will agree to this…

​@@beckyumphrey2626 Every Pilot, Every Flight, Yes... I know that may sound scary and that's not my intent, but it's just the honest truth and it doesn't have to be scary. It should however be sobering and humbling for all pilots and a drive to what makes us all strive to be better... continually... It is unequivocally impossible for any human being to 100% combined and simultaneously adhere to 1. All of The Federal Aviation Regulations, 2. All of The Guidance set forth for Pilots in The Aeronautical Information Manual and Advisory Circulars, and 3. All of the Guidance's, Procedures, and Requirements Set forth for Pilots in any given Aircraft's Flight Manual. Below are some simple examples... Mistakes could be something as big as missing an altitude target by 101ft or 11 degrees hand flying on a long journey, or not checking the sensitivity of an altimeter is within spec prior to flying into RVSM, not donning a mask when the FO gets up to use the restroom, or, something smaller like forgetting to turn off a pitot heat after landing by 2 minutes and 1 second, or something as miniscule such as improper radio communication technique such as A. using transitional words not listed in the AIM such as "and, for, the, etc.", B. Improper Pronunciation of words and letters such as not pronouncing Three and Five as "Tree" and "Fife", C. using pilot developed but non-standard shortcuts such as saying "Climbing to Ten Point Five", or, D. confusing/forgetting geographic differences such as not reading back an altimeter setting in the European Union which is mandatory but not mandatory in the United States... Ask any pilot what the maximum allowable heading deviation is from an ATC assigned heading... There isn't but a few that can give you a correct answer on something so simple and crucial, because it's a tough question. Technically there is no maximum allowable heading deviation specified in any regulation but there are tolerances during training and testing. Some pilots will cite these numbers even though they are irrelevant... And yet Pilots can be penalized with deviations by ATC if they don't hold their heading because the truth is there isn't really any tolerance allowed. ZERO... The best anyone could come up with for a tolerance would be somewhere between zero and ten degrees but that's not because of PTS/ACS guidance which would be irrelevant outside of the testing environment, but instead because of Advisory Circular 43.13-1B which is regulatory... That AC says that a compass has to be accurate within 10 degrees and Rechecked and Reswung after any hard landing in non-pressurized aircraft. How many pilots do you think have reswung their magnetic compasses after a hard landing? The answer is very close to ZERO... So anyone who has flown a non-pressurized aircraft after a hard landing without reswinging their magnetic compass is in violation of FAA regulatory guidance. There isn't an airplane out there that hasn't had a hard landing and so technically almost every single pilot is not only making a mistake on every flight but is also in violation every single time that they fly. The purpose of very detailed regulatory semantics like this isn't to create a system that is impossible to adhere to, but to create a culture that everyone aspires to become more like and that is a bar that is not achievable so the mindset hopefully becomes "keep climbing and aspiring"... Pilot's who look at aviation from the mindset that they can always improve and learn more and are also honest that perfection is impossible but aspire to it anyway, and that's the best possible environment all of us can hope to achieve in aviation... But, any pilot that thinks they do not make mistakes on every flight, that for me would be a cause for concern. “The fools think they know it all. The bold pretend they do. The wise know they know nothing.” -unknown.

Cuttin that goddamn cheese ullgetcha everytime! Truckee!

Day, VFR.