I mean, I used to work airport security (not in USA) and I handled a _lot_ of firearm bags. This kind of nonsense is completely bizarre incompetence at all levels. It's not like this kind of thing doesn't usually happen pretty much every day with people on flights at any busy airport, how can the gate personnel, the ramp personnel and TSA be such complete idiots? Lack of accountability, that's what. Nobody gets reprimanded for this. They just screw around with you and nobody gets so much as any additional training to how to handle this BS in the future.
Airline administration is almost entirely made up of middle-aged Karens who used to be stewardesses, they're not particularly intelligent or efficient at anything. And the TSA are actively bad at literally every part of their job, because the only people who apply to work for the TSA are people who were too stupid not only to be cops, but to be prison guards, mall cops, and school security guards.
The problem is, if somebody messes up, the scenario defaults to: a) not repeimanding the person at all b) firing the person responsible and replacing that position with another former burger flipper with no responsibility either.
I don't think you understand how the gov works. They bend you over and violate you. In turn, YOU pay your taxes and pay THEIR salary so they can continue to be as incompetent as ever. They have no incentive to get better or to do better, only to continue on course. Welcome to America.
The issue is they have a choice of least bad scenario. If they let something through the shouldn't they could go to prison for a long time. Nobody wants to be the guy that allowed something to go through that's used in a hijacking. It's the classic on the job problem of "there's no scenario where I don't do something wrong so what's the least bad choice?"
@DeviantOllam those wafer blockers can probably be had from any locksmith that stocks/installs CompX Fort locks, the plastic blockers come with every cam lock.
When the problem is this widespread, it’s not the people, but the airlines at fault. They surely aren’t prioritizing fixing it. And I’m not surprised - they will never admit it, but I’m sure they would rather people didn’t fly with firearms, so don’t want to induce more demand by making it easy.
1 month ago in Pittsburg , I hand carried my firearm case to TSA so they could inspect it. The agent did an X-ray and visual inspection right in front of me and then brought the case over to me for lock installation. Imagine my surprise when my case arrived in Seattle with the locks removed. The locks were 12 hours old when installed and why does TSA need in again after they themselves have cleared the case? This is equivalent to setting up another metal detector at the airplane!
@Peter Darr In my case, I took the rifle case to the ticket agent and filled out a declaration in their view. The declaration stated that the rifle was unloaded and checked by me. The declaration then went in the case, and the case was left unlocked. Next, I carried it roughly 100 feet to a TSA kiosk. The TSA agent had me open the case and looked at the rifle (which was actually disassembled) and the declaration. He then took it to another station within my view and ran it through x-ray and visual checks. He also removed part of the foam protection pad, then replaced everything. Next, he brought it back to me and watched me put 2 locks on the case. Once it is locked, there is no need for further inspection. When the case arrived, Sans locks, I contacted the airline and TSA. They both stated that there is no reason to open it at that point and if there was to be a problem with the case later on, (i.e., damage or loss) they track you down at the gate rather than go through your case away from view which may bring on liability that they do not want to accept.
@@matthewstimmel7497 Is that so? So according to their own explanation, your cases were opened by someone other than TSA? Sure is negligent of them to just leave firearms in an area where some unknown person can put heavy duty tools to them without anyone noticing
@wessltov TSA blamed the airline and the airline blamed TSA. To be fair, the case was not left open but was unlocked. All the contents were still in the case and there was no ammunition to even load the firearm but it definitely makes someone wonder how secure a weapon is when it gets tampered with, and nobody can answer why.
@@matthewstimmel7497 Maybe next time it should have a go-pro recording so you can see for yourself when the case is opened when it shouldn't be. Something along the lines of, get it inspected, cleared and approved, turn on the camera, then close and lock it up.
I had a counter agent in Colorado Springs freak out so bad and hyperventilate when I told her I had a "special Item" in my luggage. I had to talk her down and I had pre-printed the FAA rules and the airline rules pages and gave them to her.
Your patience while dealing with that airline and their unwillingness or inability to communicate is astounding, because at that point I would be giving them a five minute ultimatum that could end with a firearm being reported stolen.
@@SoloRenegade Technically, it's conversion, because you handed it to them on purpose then they kept it without continued permission. Realistically, you're never going to get a charge to stick, because they were trying (poorly) to do their lawful ("lawful") job. And theft or conversion generally requires actual intent to keep the object. I think you're more likely to get a vandalism charge to stick, since somewhere between the airline and TSA, they knowingly destroyed a lock. But it's still a stretch, since no one person committed the entire act of vandalism. The ticketing agent negligently failed to report the situation to TSA, but didn't intend for the lock to get cut. And the baggage TSO made an attempt to contact the passenger, but was probably told to just get it done since they were holding the flight up at that point. Someone should definitely have to pay for the new lock (likely the airline in this case), but unless a simple claims form works, it's likely far more trouble than it's worth actually suing them.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 Small claims court IS suing. And there's no small claims court in federal law, so you'd have to sue under state law for that to work. Not sure it does.
You have the absolute best guide to traveling with firearms that I've ever read. Rules involving firearms are important and following those rules keeps you out of any misunderstandings. This is a great enhancement to that guide. Sadly, this experience needs more consistency from airport to airport. Rules are fine, but consistency is as important as following them. Hopefully things can improve, but it may take an act of congress (I know, I know, Roll eyes). Nice recommendation on the 83/45 Abus. I like that they have a large variety of cylinders (including Bowley Rotasera). Replaceable shackles are a bonus. Nanuk is another Pelican-esque case brand. I don't know if their locking latches are key-retaining either. Neat that it's an issue that can be fixed.
Thanks so much for appreciating my work on this topic. And yeah Nanuk are another pretty quality option, as are Hardigg and a few others. I remember I reviewed an Explorer Case product for The Firearm Blog a while back, that was decent, too. (But a bit heavy because it's built like an absolute tank)
The Nanuk TSA powerclaw latches I have do not retain the key in the unlocked position. And unfortunately, when I tried opening them with the key in the lock, the latch couldn't lift far enough to disengage with the lid. If that problem can be resolved, the lock itself can be modded in a similar way, blocking the wafer channels in the unlocked position.
They can, they're just too incompetent to know how to chance channel. Airports use a DMR network for radios, there's something called talk groups where they can switch to different channels (Ground crew, TSA, Boarding etc). U literally just have to change a little dial ontop of the radio.
TSA is completely worthless. I carry tools with me (because I an a traveling technician). Sir this screwdriver is 2 inches too long or what was the other thing they took from me.... an adjustable wrench or something? Yea these nitwits don't understand anything.
yup you have to have nothing longer then 7.25 any longer and no go. it is a rule. follow it or check it bro. why do you get to bend the rule. because you are a technician. who is the nit-wit. just using your words buddy.@@OramiIT
If I have a screwdriver that is 2 inches shorter somehow that is allowed. From a weapon standpoint it’s still deadly. They aren’t protecting anyone. Same thing with water or a sealed beverage. What are they actually stopping? What are they preventing? TSA is a waste of resources just more government bloating.
I once flew out of Huston tx on United. i filled out the orange paper and they took it on the regular belt. Then when I got on the plane a stewardess came over to me and whispered in my ear.. sir, do you still have your gun on your person? I'm like no I wish I did but no I checked it. totally clueless.. Flying out of Newark NJ regularly I have no issue, they walk me to the TSA room, they scan it and and say ty and I'm on my way...
The last time I flew with a firearm the TSA agent said I should put a TSA lock on it so I don't have to go through special screening. No, i'm not letting any old baggage handler with TSA keys pop open my case.
@@williamwallace9826 Direct quote from TSA's website: "You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks."
@@jebediahkerman8245 According to the law (49 CFR 1540.111(c)(2)(iv)), a passenger may not transport an unloaded firearm unless it's in a hard-sided container, and the container is locked and only the passenger retains the key. TSA-recognised locks are designed to allow a TSA key to open the lock. Therefore, TSA's website is incorrect in claiming that TSA-recognised locks can legally be used to secure a firearm case when flying.
@@rytan4516 This isn't the law, this is Code of Federal Regulations, which is written by the TSA itself! They are allowed to contradict their own rules because everything they write IS the rules.
Here in the "backward" Philippines, there is a separate check-in counter for firearms run by the police. They have you open your case to show them the gun & contents before you lock it for the flight. The guns are placed with the purser/cabin crew. You then use the separate baggage stub for your gun to check it out of the police counter upon arrival.
I understand your pain! Years ago, I checked my handgun into TSA for my flight. I opened the hard case for them, allowed them to see that the gun was unloaded and that the ammunition was in a separate compartment. Afterward, I placed two “TSA Approved” locks on it and the TSA representative placed a label on the handle. When I arrived at my destination and picked up my gun case (with all of the other luggage; which seemed odd as always because it could have been easily stolen by anyone) I observed that both locks had been cut off of the case. When I complained to TSA, they stated that they needed to do an “inspection” and no one had a TSA Approved master key, so they cut off the locks. They refused to reimburse me for the replacement cost of the locks. Unbelievable.
There needs to be a checklist for airline employees to go over as well as TSA employees to go over when a customer brings a firearm on board an aircraft. Or even the railroad. By having a checklist and a written procedure this should help avoid any problems. But from what I saw in this video it seems like nobody reads anymore.
Destruction of private property without compensation? Violation of the takings clause of the constitution which should result in criminal charges. Searching inside the case why? Sounds like a 4th amendment violation IMO since "Oh, it looks like there is a gun in a locked case" isn't sufficient grounds for a lawful warrantless search. Which is yet again more constitution violations. For those who don't know, gov employees violate your constitutional rights? That is multiple crimes including serious felonies like USC 18.13.241 and 242. Unfortunately, the legal system is corrupt and typically refuses to criminal charge criminal gov employees who violate our rights. In short, our rights mean nothing.
So let me get this straight. If for some unbelievable reason something that's not suppose to be in cargo makes it in cargo and the plane and passengers are at risk, the TSA member who screwed up can't warn anyone at the gate. They can't warn the pilot. They can't warn staff of any kind. What do they do? Do they have a big red button telling every plane in the airport to evacuate and clear distance to the threat? Or do people just die?
I haven’t had an issue ever traveling with a firearm, except literally the first time I traveled with my handgun when the airport just left my bag at the previous airport. So not only did I not have my gun and don’t know where it is other than what the airport claims, but I literally had nothing other than my laptop on me from my carry on. Was very upsetting and I had another 4-5 hour drive after my flight too. Luckily it came on the very next flight, but it still was hassle. At least the airport staff was polite and listened.
As soon as someone says "it goes on the regular belt", immediate stop them, ask for a manager and TSA rep. Secondary... I tape THE LAW to the case, with a red paper saying STOP, it is illegal for YOU to open this without me present. Is far easier to arrive early and do this before handing the bag over, than deal with issues after you do. By law, YOU, the owner, are the only person to have access to the contents inside (NO TSA ACCESS LOCKS).... NEVER give your key to anyone, despite TSA "posted rules" Federal LAW says YOU must be the ONLY one to open and then secure the case (Think gun malfunctions after TSA cuts locks and permanently injures/kills someone), ALWAYS file a police report if lock are cut, this time/date stamps your claim (don't worry about "wasting the officers time", he's paid for this and Federal law trumps TSA rules).
Jesus.. as I worked all over the world for decades, in some of the poorest countries on earth, ONLY in the US did I ever have this much trouble! I got flash backs and anxiety immediately when you were at the desk listening to that damn circus !
Use high security padlocks from Abloy, Mul-T-Lock, and Abus with shrouded shackles so the TSA cannot use bolt cutters to clip your locks. Buy gun cases that have extra large diameter reinforced tabs for larger high security padlocks. When there is a traveler flying with a gun case a TSA screener should come to the check in counter screen the firearm and put a sticker on the case to show it has been screened and stop destroying peoples property.
You would think that a country with a multi-billion dollar firearm industry and a ridiculously over bloated “security” apparatus would be able to figure out how to do this.
At some airports they do have it figured out. I have flown out of OIA numerous times and never had an issue. After declaring the firearm at the counter, they give me the Firearm Tag to fill out. I then attach the tag to the case containing the firearm in my luggage and the counter agent walk me over to a baggage screening area and tells the agent there. They take my bag and screen it while I watch, and if there is no issue they slap a tag on it indication it has been screened and send me to my gate. I have never had an issue from there, and if all airports followed the same procedure there would be no issues.
I'm a locksmith working at Bees Keys right next to Dallas Love field. We keep these Abus padlocks in stock, along with spare shackles, and can get it keyed up for you in 5 minutes.
Last time I checked TSA is not authorized to cut any hadlock from any bag they are required to find the owner of the bag and request the owner provide the key to access the container for inspection
Imagine you're doing this for the first time, you would have no idea what's going on and you'd be terrified of getting arrested. Which is probably what they want - people just deciding not to travel with guns.
have flown several times w/ firearms & never had locks cut. Have flown out of an airport in a large city & have never been told to wait 10-15 min. before going to TSA screening. I have had my bag come thru the ck'd bag belt, instead of being taken to BSA office.
As a Reno native, the Airport genuinely sucks. It's not very well equipped, it's pretty consistently understaffed, and almost any time my friends or family have flown to or from the Reno Airport, there's always some kind of problem. Unfortunately there's almost no other option to fly out of Northern Nevada other than driving several hours into California, or 10 hours down to Vegas, because all of the other airports are rinky dink general use airports, and are almost exclusively for stuff like sight seeing aircraft, fire aircraft, and aviators. It really sucks, and despite being a fairly gun friendly area, and state, from the few people I've heard from who have flown with guns through Reno airport, it's never gone well.
I used to think SFO was insufferable about this as they'd swab gun cases for gunpowder then act all surprised pikachu when it tested positive for gun powder.... NO SHIT
That's adorable, we don't get to sue the government, they are "immune" unless they allow you to sue. It's also likely not worth the expense for Dev. Now if Dev, LPL, and every single person that has had their luggage violated because of this type of stuff could sue in some kind of class action, MAYBE it could be worth it, but it would still likely be prohibitively expensive.
@@Kinkajou1015 With the documentation Dev has done, and others willing to join in and add their own documentation. I know it's not a big likelihood but the war of the flea.
There are written instructions for all this and the Airlines and TSA should be conducting (TRAINING) Print out the regulations and show the Airline and TSA people.
The one downside to doing that lock modification is that if you put both the latches on your Pelican case, you now require two keys to open that case...
I checked the firearm with Alaskan airlines, and they put it on the regular carousel, where it could have been taken by anyone. And when I asked to speak to a manager, one didn't show up for 5 to 10 minutes, and the agent at the carousel was really down playing what happened. Given it wasn't his fault, and I wasn't trying to blame him. But it was really annoying.
Consider how bad the airlines and TSA are with your freedom and rights. They apparently don’t have consistent policies and procedures but won’t hesitate to make you an example.
This is why I always insist on having a TSA agent come to the counter to take it for inspection before I go through security. It's definitely a new adventure every time I fly with a firearm!
This is why I just drive everywhere with my stuff. It might be a drive but atleast I get to enjoy the views and I know my stuff is safe and not being broken into or looted.
I also put Apple AirTags in my luggage and in the pistol case. At least I can see where the two tags are in relation to each other and if they are anywhere close to the aircraft. They do much if someone is doing something nefarious, but locks keep an honest person honest and GPS tracking tags keep me informed.
I just had a weird situation with Delta airlines and my checked firearm. I flew from Atlanta to Fort Lauderdale. On the Atlanta side they did all the pre-checks showed them that the firearm was unloaded, etc. When we arrived to Fort Lauderdale, I went to the baggage claim assistance area and they said to go to the oversize luggage spot and a Broward county sheriff's deputy along with a Delta employee would assist. As I'm walking to the area, I noticed on the standard carousel the bag with my firearm in it just spinning around for anyone to grab. So I grabbed it and left. I didn't have time to tell them they screwed up.
Concerning that TSA is so nonchalant about leaving unsecured firearms floating around the airport. They really seem to be driving airport security backwards.
@@WRSND Maybe not, they might just be fucking mor0ns, if you do not know were your weapons are then that is a major problem. I can tell you were all of mine are and if the are loaded or not.
5ish years ago I was returning home from a convention where I won a matted painting from an Art Auction. I get up to the xray, and request they hand the matted painting through because it will get stuck on the conveyor. They got very upset when I suggested this, and INSISTED it go through the x-ray. (This is an acrylic painting on mat-board. It is less than a quarter inch thick. It got jammed in the x-ray, and the tech tried to free it by jamming the belt forward as fast as possible. This caused the luggage behind it to push my painting through the machine, beinding it in a z shape. I was LIVID. Heck the 3 people behind me that witness this were livid.
All this could be cleared up by just having a TSA agent come physically pick the bag up when you check it in. Then having the TSA agent physically walk the bag to the loading bay and visually watching the bag be loaded onto the plane. It used to be that flying with a firearm almost always guaranteed your bag would never be lost, because they didn't put it in the automated system. Because there was a high fear of not knowing where a gun was at all times in an airport.
1. How dare you bring logic into this converstaion. 2. You want govt agency employees to walk? 3. Don't you know the purpose of govt jobs is to do as little as possible while collecting a pay check 4. This is obviously written with sarcasm.
Some airports do. Unfortunately as they always say, “Every airport is different” which also mean different management directives. At the airport I work at we hand check every firearm case before sending it on it’s way to the airline. The only time I’ve ever cut a lock on a firearm case is when the passenger forgot the key or combination.
I travel regularly with guns and the only place I have problems is in New York City. TSA always wants the key and I refuse them. This leads them to call the Port Authority Police who then tells them they have no business handling the guns and if they open it the cop will lock up the TSA agent.
As far as I can tell, TSA in NYC is geared specifically to scare away gun owners. I've seen a few stories where they tried to lock people up who were just waiting on their next flight, or whatever.
They want to inspect it without the owner present because TSA is following ATF guideline to record every serial number of every firearm along with the owners information they come across. Same as police departments across the US are told to run the serial number and the person every time they come into contact with someone and a firearm. Illegally or legally possessed. Some state/local PD comply and others don’t. This is the ATF building and maintaining a data base of guns and owners. Illegal but still being done
My favorite TSA story is still when I used to fly armed as a LEO picking up a prisoner for extradition. There was a protocol to follow and it generally went off without too much trouble. Once as I picked up my boarding pass after going through the dog and pony show the clerk asked, as she handed me the pass, "Do you have any sharp objects on your person?" I asked, "What part about "peace officer flying armed" do you not understand?" She said, "Oh, I know. We have to ask." I said, "No ma'am. No sharp edges on this 10mm Colt."
Having a Beretta M9 in 9mm and a Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 4.5" in 10mm I'd use the 10mm everyday and twice on Sunday over a 9mm (all else being equal).
@@matthewmiller6068 There is almost no chance that would happen. TSA is employed by humans, and humans are retarded. But almost none are that retarded. You're more likely to have the firearm directly stolen in the inspection room when a supervisor isn't looking, and that's still very unlikely given the nature of the charges the TSO would be facing when they almost certainly got caught.
I use airtags to track where my bags are now. In the USA, every airport will have a few iphones that will let you know if your bags have gotten to the terminal or not. It gives you some piece of mind and you don't have to deal with airport staff to ask if your bag has cleared.
I have a friend who did that. Their bags sat in the lost and found, they had the make and model of the bags and other info, they wouldn't ever grab em even though they showed it's there
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 Happened like that to a traveler in Canada. He told them exactly where his "lost" luggage was, but they insisted it wasn't there. Eventually, the airline sold his luggage as unclaimed. Of course, he followed it and retrieved it.
@@adamgravelin3002 glad you think so! I forgot to put one in my luggage before I left my house recently. Because I had one in my carry on I could just slip that one into my checked luggage. I always keep spares with me just in case.
The entire false flag event was so they could do this. And hide their massive financial fraud against the American people. Among other crimes punishable by death.
The entire false flag event was so they could do this. And hide their massive financial fraud against the American people. Among other crimes punishable by death.
Consider yourself lucky, the TSA has cut and tossed all my Albus locks. I've submitted invoices for payment demand, telling them "hey, you threw them away without consent. I need repayment." I'm still waiting
For future reference, in Orlando, the firearm case should go to oversized luggage which is one floor below the check in desks and the person who checked you in should walk you down there. There's a TSA guy and a window in the door for them to give you a thumbs up if you're good.
I've been there. Got the thumbs up through the window... STL is a nightmare, every single time. COD didn't even care to inspect, just waved it through. DEN was a PITA.
Can also confirm. DEN is similar. Someone walks you to a TSA room on the same floor as ticketing and they give you a tumbs-up through the window in the door.
Really? That's so frustrating! The level of incompetence has gotten so bad that you'd have to walk the checkin assistant down there instead of the other way around!
Making key retaining locks to force TSA to relock your bags is the smartest thing I’ve heard in a while. Just force them to be secure since they clearly can’t do it themselves
Betting $5 on the lock getting cut because "it's broke" and only after they cut it and monkey around for 30 minutes do they realize that putting it in the LOCK position frees the ke- wait, wait, nevermind, that was because we cut it off, not because we turned it back to locked. Job's done!
@@H3110NU - That's a fun idea! ~10 bucks in support, and a prop people can pull out when arguing that the TSA is fundamentally making people less safe.
The real fun is if you had one of the special high security locks, them trying to cut that open wouldn't be something that they'd do again. I know someone who had to travel with one on a case, though that was one with other things on it and he had to deal with the TSA in other ways due to it because the contents were classified in the unauthorized might end up in gitmo after whatever medical attention for trying to breech the thing might cause. He only found out about some of the security after it was unlocked from his wrist after arriving at the other end.
I think I remember Dev mentioning that the airlines would pay him back for the lock, eventually, I can't remember how long it was, but I think it was measured in years.
In response to making the TSA do their job: I'm finding that *every industry* has a minority of people who take pride in their work, and a majority that just punch the clock.
It's to be expected under our economic system. We're not passionate because our labor is stolen, our work is broken and highly segmented, and we are basically held hostage by our jobs.
Airline Agent on radio: "I don't know what is going on." Yeah, we established that a long time ago. Hopefully the airline got fined for being late pushing back from the gate.
Exactly. It's called social engineering. Just print and glue an instruction on the case, with pictures, that looks like it can be a real TSA instruction and roll with it. The humans will follow the instructions without second thought.
@@NeilAbalone yes some sort of laminated sheet again could come with purchase of the sticker pack. I was thinking how do you identify the case without identifying the case? like I could see you putting your phone number on there but maybe not "hey this is a gun". or is that perfectly acceptable?
The problem is that it starts at the Check-in. The drones there insist that gun cases are regular luggage when they're not. And trying to convince them otherwise is probably hopeless.
I'm 10 minutes in and already the only way I see this issue getting fixed is if passengers start standing their ground and demand that the airlines and TSA follow their own policies. You as a passenger might miss a few flights, but hold the airlines accountable.
I can't believe there isn't some kind of serious escalation available for these policy deviations that at least leads to the airline reimbursing the cost of the padlocks! They had a policy and their employees failed to follow it, causing loss to a passenger - how do they not feel an ethical duty to right that, even if they have no legal obligation to do so?
@@djcfrompt The problem is we are dealing with two separate entities; the airline and then the TSA. The airline is going to say that it was the TSA that cut the locks. The TSA is going to say the airline/passenger didn't provide the key so we cut the locks. Who is responsible? As a passenger, we need to have all of the pertinent policies on hand to show the airline desk staff and then demand that they follow them. Don't take, "Well we don't do that here" as an answer. If TSA fails to follow their own policies, then make a complaint to their Office of Inspector General.
@@Sku11Leader right, and there is certain to be lots of finger pointing, but my argument is that if the airline employee's failure to follow the airline's own policies leads to the loss (i.e., but for the employee's deviation from policy, this would not have happened), the airline should at least feel responsible and make amends.
As a non-American these 'Flying With Firearms' videos are both entertaining and infuriating. The level of incompetence in the handling makes my blood boil, just from watching. That's even without the added stress of getting on a plane on time.
its a problem only encountered by people with extra money to burn. most americans dont actually fly everywhere with guns. most dont even fly anymore (various reasons for that). this is a rich person problem.. not the average american.
@@reburgcam I'm sure as hell not rich, and I've flown with firearms multiple times. Dev is flying for his JOB, I doubt he's "rich" either, though I'm sure he makes more than me.
@@LdHrothgar i hope some day to be as WEALTHY as you and be able to afford to buy a gun. .you are truely financially blessed to have something i personally am not rich enough to afford. you are definitely rich.
Why do you expect people making minimum wage in dead end jobs to give a flying fig about doing anything but the bare minimum. You're demanding operational excellence and efficiency from wage slaves who are barely making ends meet due to inflation. You're lucky half of them even showed up to work. Welcome to America.
I always appreciate your travel content, I've had a bunch of non-firearms related travel weirdness in the past few months. in ATL they panicked because they saw un UNLOCKED Pelican AIR and thought it was firearms and sent it to TSA, took them an hour to figure out how to get in touch with me while I'm ripping my hair out trying to source replacement parts for what I thought was a lost case of critical parts. Definitely have to update "corporate policy" now lol
Rule 1. Always get *full* names of everybody - on camera if possible. I have an EM doctor friend that flies very frequently, and calls all the post 9-11 screening "security theater".
I can't agree more. The front-line imbeciles hired by the TSA traditionally have the mental acuity of a floor stocker at your local Goodwill. And I'm not bashing on goodwill employees here. This is all theatre because the public accepts it. Have you ever flown commercial out of Israel? That is at least much more competent security, and if you know what to look for in the airport there are armed plain-clothes police and military within probably 3-4 seconds of any incursion point. Sorry TSA, what you literally provide is merely an inconvenience to most travelers and simply a diversion point to be exploited for anyone truly capable of such tactics.
As a pilot it 100% is theater. Any engineer could put any weapon they want on board the airplane before it gets boarded, pilots also have access to the aircraft when it's on the company side. Weapons could be tucked in food service (this would take one person on the outside and one on the inside, but also an option... lots of options, but the point is that the peasant harassment isn't worth the frightfully small gain to safety: it's all just for money.
I've only flown with firearms once, a long while ago in New Jersey, so my memory is fuzzy. I walked up to the counter, let them know I had a firearm, they called the TSA who came over, and carried the case to their special screening area, with me trailing behind, they sent the case through their machines, opened it with my key to look, and then sent it off to be loaded. All with me standing there. And then I went on my merry way and picked up the case at my destination at the airline service counter, no problem.
That's how it SHOULD work. Denver Airport also has a TSA screening room around the corner from the check in counters that works similarly. But many airports around the country haven't been updated to add this, or don't train agents well enough (or they're so low volume for armed travelers) that they either don't have a procedure, or its not well know. Then you run into the issues as described here.
It's not like they let you carry your axe on board so you can cut your way into the baggage area of the plane to get it. If guns go off at high altitude on their own, I am sure the military would have noticed it by now as their planes blow up in flight.
Congratulations you made my jaw drop. They inspected the luggage with the gun and don’t lock it back up when they send it out. They have one job in this scenario right to insure the gun is secure? They literally made everything less secure while screwing with your stuff.
Don't worry, they did deep psychological evaluations of everyone that would be near that luggage after they cut the locks and sent it back out into the airport.
Employee at LAX on arrival wanted my key to open it. I said NOPE the key doesn't leave my possession...that's what the regulations say. Well that's not how we do it here...I've never done it that way. Well sorry sir, THAT'S the regulations. If I hand over the key that also transfers liability...what happens if that bag is opened and there's a firearm or property missing...do YOU want to deal with that??? I'll get my manager sir. OK great
I'm glad you recorded this, because if you verbally told anybody this, they would think you're nuts, because nobody would think that a crew could be this uncoordinated
It's a government job.. I have yet to find a government employee that knows what they are doing or have any kind of urgency to get the job done and done properly. Used to work for the TSA (Federal Air Marshalls) And could not wait until I found another job. It was all about filling space and getting a paycheck. Never how to streamline and be efficient for the customer (The Taxpayer).
@Russ Timberman Air Marshals are not TSA agents. I don’t believe you were an air marshal due to the fact that you said you left them. The pay and benefits of an air marshal are EXACTLY the same as US Marshals because they are the same department. You’d be retarded for leaving them because of how they manage things when promotion in the department is very easy as long as you are intelligent and have common sense, so you could have easily rose through ranks to change things. I work for the FPS(Federal Protective Services), and I would never leave a heavily competitive job that literally millions are competing for when there’s only hundreds of spots available. Federal law enforcement are one of the hardest type of careers to get in the federal government due to training, and available spots. I’ve been with FPS for 2 years and I am already shift supervisor due to my military training and grade(graduated ALC and is now a Staff Sergeant in the army reserve).
@@Unchainedful government and state jobs allow swapping BETWEEN other departments and positions, for all you know he entered into work with another department that handles similar types of things, maybe he went into security, or police. I can't speak on his comments about working for the TSA (though honestly someone telling the air marshals they work for the TSA would NOT surprise me) but his statements about HOW those jobs are handled I can absolutely back up. I'll refrain from clarifying my position because I'm still in active service but when I was starting the amount of "sit and look pretty" that I did was STAGGERING. Working a straight 8 I think in total I actually "worked" maybe three hours? And hell I had a government/state issued vehicle which I could radio in and out from (clock in/clock out) so hell, you'd radio in in the morning sitting in your driveway, probably not leave until like, another 30 minutes has passed, and you're home 30 minutes to an hour before your shift ends (usually doing paperwork but still). Government and state are NOT at all in any hurry to get employees working, let alone for the people who pay their salaries
This is a great video on travelling with guns but I think it's also important to point out that traveling with guns can be a great way to protect other equipment. I travel a lot with photography equipment so the investment of a $150 to get a cheap starter pistol allows you to put your own locks on the case and makes my photo equipment far less likely to walk away when going through security. Unfortunately I learned this after a camera body disappeared going through TSA checkpoints.
There's an old video (might be from a conference talk) from Deviant about this exact thing, there he mentions it doesn't even have to be a full gun. a receiver is enough and if the people at check in start any fuss about it "not being a gun", that talk had the magic words which I don't remember to remind them that receiver indeed is the gun as far as the law is concerned.
I remember reading up on the legal implementation of the TSA. Many airports had privately contracted security teams already, and so there was a clause that said that if you [an airport] can prove that you can an equal or better quality job then you can fill out a form to get a TSA exemption. I might argue that no security at all does an equal or better job than TSA, and for a fraction of the cost! lol
Yes. There are still two airports that I regularly fly through which have private security. San Francisco is the big one that everyone knows about. South Dakota has the other.
@@GameCyborgChIm not a big fan of TSA but in all fairness I don’t feel its fair to make the slam on the whole organization. Most of the disruptions in procedure and various stupid ways they conduct business is directed down to the workers from a DEI hire inexperienced supervisor’s having the authority to make policy that never started from the base and worked themselves up through merit.
The best thing you can do in the event that your luggage is tampered with in ANY way os to threaten the airline with a call to the ATF. NOBODY wants to deal with the ATF, especially TSA and airline companies. If your lock has been cut and/or replaced, or if they cant find your case, are holding it hostage, etc... tell the airline youre calling the ATF, i promise they will get you your case amd all contents within ASAP.
It'll work, but there's a good chance you'll be on both groups' crap list after that. However, the ATF IS the responsible authority for transport of firearms across state lines, not the TSA.
Yeah! I'm not living in the US and don't know the laws there, but I can imagine if you screw up and give the TSA no other option they are allowed to cut your locks and you have to pay for it. But if you do everything according to procedure and the airline messes up, they should be the ones paying for the damages done to your personal belongings.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 What are you going to do to hold an airline accountable? Fly with a different airline? No airline is going to care about a single passenger who most likely only bought a ticket with them because a travel agency of some variety gave a better deal with that specific flight
@@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind Yes, I did understand that. Maybe I wasn't that clear in whom I spoke about, when I used they. So TSA will most likely be allowed to open the gun case and is allowed to damage locks in the process, if TSA don't have the key. So if TSA don't have the key, and that is your fault you will not have any way to get your money back. But if it is not your fault, but the airlines fault, I think legally you should have the option to get your money back from that airline. If your belongings get damaged because of an error the airline made, why shouldn't they be legally responsible for the damage and have to pay for it?
I was a Funeral Detail NCOIC in the Army. We had a major WTF once in Atlanta Airport. We had all our paperwork in order and we had orders and the weapons were listed in the orders by serial number. We had used the TSA locks so that the TSA can look in the case if needed too, as we were ordered to. The Rifle teams M-4's were supposed to be loaded into the aircraft but they disappeared between the check-in and the loading terminal. I had asked if the weapons were loaded and was told they were. Low and behold we got to the place where were were going, Michigan, to do the funeral for our fallen Brother, and 3 weapon cases were missing. 3 M-4's that belonged to the US Army were gone. It took me a while to find out that they got "misplaced" and were going to be on the next flight to our destination, which was the next day thankfully. One soldier and I had to wait in Detroit overnight and pick up the weapons and rent a second vehicle and drive the 3 hours to the where we had to be. It was stressful to say the least.
pretty fucking sad that crayon eaters can count better than TSA agents. 1 rifle, 2 rifle, 3 rifle, 4... At least when I was checking in rifles for a FOB cycle at Fort Bliss, I had the easy part of knowing EXACTLY how many weapons were already out and who had which one, so if one got "misplaced", I, and my Top would know who was getting a new asshole before their next Article15 hearing.
It's not like you can't just jump straight to the ground from the ramp there. That lock is just to keep little kids in place, and honest people honest.
At Seattle-Tacoma International, there's a dedicated TSA gun check station. It's been there almost as long as the TSA itself. They open the case and do their inspection. Then the owner locks the case, and it goes on the belt.
Yeah at OIA i do this all the time prescreen they put it on their luggage belt and i go on my way. Are these airports not equipped like the major airports
@@JAutry Even large-ish airports like Spokane and Tucson aren't big enough to have a dedicated firearms section given how few people travel with firearms. Instead, they use the same room for firearms as they do for over-sized luggage. Go to a small airport and they're definitely not going to have a firearms station. Some of these airports don't even have on-site police.
Where I live (not the US) you check guns at airport police and you get it at airport police (same if you are from abroad) on the other side nobody would cut a lock they will land in an African jail..if they do
Pilot: "We'll hold [the plane] for ya." Wow, lucky guy; I've never heard of anyone getting that kind of personal service based on _their_ want before! Nice guy! Maybe out of policy, but cool!
Honestly seems like the pilot just understood that airport staff and tsa fucked up and wanted to extend some courtesy to the dude. It's kinda like how I don't leave the shop with my flatbed until everything that's supposed to be there, is there
@@hf117j: Yeah, and if so, then that's good of them... the "adult/mature" thing to do. I just didn't even really know they could do that. In most cases I would think they wouldn't dare. So this is cool.
That's not being nice, it's law. A passenger can not leave the aircraft after boarding and the plane just takeoff. A plane can also not takeoff with a person's luggage and the person not on the aircraft. It's a terrorism thing.
I had firearms stolen by the airport staff. Claimed they lost them for over 8 months, fighting with them nonstop then once I told them there was gps in it and called up a lawyer in the office, it miraculously turned up in like 45 seconds. They were literally holding it in the back and pretending they couldn’t find it. Got it back and they’re all rusted out, locks cut etc. I just pray they weren’t used for nefarious purposes while out of my possession
Somewhat similar experience with my Aunt that I witnessed around 2007. She was a Major at the time in the USAF who had just gotten back from Iraq. She traveled commercial back to the airport (I won't say which one, but its in the North East US). While waiting at the luggage carousel she grabbed her bag, but the case for her M9 was missing. After waiting for around a half hour, nothing showed up. At that point no one else from her flight was still there and it was a new crowd. After informing TSA, they did not care it was missing. After speaking to the airline, they didn't seem to care either other than telling her to fill out a form. At that point she had called her Commanding Officer (who was a full bird Colonel) and told them that the Airline/Airport lost a Government Issued M9 9mm handgun. Within 15 minutes, 4 or 5 State Troopers had shown up, and someone from Homeland Security. 5 minutes later, it showed up. Locks busted off, foam cut out of the case, and the entire pistol broken down rattling around inside with the magazines missing. She was beyond pissed, and her CO said she was coming down personally. She walked back over to the TSA office and told them "I hope you enjoy your next visit from the United States Air Force". No idea what ever happened after that, but I'm sure heads rolled because clearly an airport employee was trying to steal it and either got caught in the act or knew they were about to if it showed up that fast.
No I thought the airport the only people you're trusting with your lives are the pilots, TSA is the fallback plan. And if you notice in this video the pilots seem to be the only ones that have a brain
I only traveled with a firearm once and it was when I brought my hunting rifle from my parents' home to the state I had moved to. Luckily the airport staff was on the ball and I didn't have any issues with it. I'm honestly blown away by how incompetent these people are with you. You even told them what they needed to do, repeatedly, and they still fucked it up. I did once however have the TSA open my case thinking there was a firearm inside, because there was a camera tripod in there that I was traveling with to do videography at my sister's wedding. I guess they thought it looked like a rifle or something on their scanner. When they put the tripod back in the case, they snapped the foot off the bottom. This is a high end tripod mind, and the plastic they broke is PA6, the stuff they use on Makita drills and can take a 10 foot drop off a ladder. You'd almost have to be trying to break it to get it to do that. I got a nice little piece of paper saying they had entered my case. No mention of the broken tripod though. Wasn't enough money to be worth my time, so to this day, I use that tripod with the missing foot and have to adjust the one leg a little longer, because TSA.
I once flew with a bass guitar in an unlocked hard case from Houston. I walked up to the check-in counter, the agent looked at my hard case and said, "That isn't what I think it is, is it?" and I said, "A guitar?" and he said "Oh, OK, nevermind." They didn't even bother to check
I used to have a metal-suitcase that on arrival almost always got diverted with special cargo(es) then kicked out ahead of the other luggage when security sees that it doesn't need special attention; or I would be paged to head over to a secure pickup area to claim it. -Or- that was until someone shot it between Ft.Lauderdale and Toronto ... and I had to make my way to the departure terminal to collect it from a crowd of police officers instead of one of the normal secure areas in the same arrival terminal. _Until just now_ , it hadn't occurred to me that it was *more likely* an accidental discharge in the secure area; And not some jackass deliberately testing the "stainless" mark's boast that it "can stop a bullet". (it didn't). edit, 12h later: Sorry, the slogan was "It can even _catch_ a bullet!" ... I think.
I was under the impression TSA rules state that a firearm case must be fastened with a lock that ONLY you have a key for, and not even TSA should have that key.
Correct, it's law. Only YOU can possess the key or combination to your bag locks. Carry a copy of the regs and show it to the first person who checks you in.
Yes you as the owner of that firearm are the only person who is authorized to hold a key and at no time shall that key be removed from your possession or control if you do not have a key and padlock a C-TPAT approved wire lead seal may be used
