TTA Podcast 259: God - The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fiction (with Dan Barker) RADIO VERSION 

As a 1O yr old I went to bible charismatic meetings. I was given "The gift of tongues" I kept it up for a couple of years. In retrospect I know I was making it up. Totally Bllshting every one there. I knew it was a lie but loved the attention. Hahahaha 😂.

I absolutely LOVED the analogy of the "torture chamber in the basement". How can you NOT wrap your head around that comparison? 'Just brilliant.

47:45 The torture chamber analogy is pretty incredible and sums up the contradictory notion of God saving you from himself. "Good news! You don't have to go down to my basement anymore! Which is great, because it's really nasty down there. I tortured my son there instead and I'm not so angry anymore. Now come live with me and love me."

The whole "harden pharaos heart"- thing throws a big wrench into any free will argument.

I completely relate to his expirience as a christian and the road to etheism. I was also a christian and belived in Jesus whole heartedly. I had my doubts but never entertained them and shoved them to the back of my mind. It wasn't until I read the whole bible and started looking at it crictically without making excuses for it and saw it for what it was saying rather than what I wanted it to say that I became an etheist. I'm so glad I opened my eyes and saw it for what it is. Now my life as an atheist is much more fulfilling because I see the beauty in truth and the poetry in science

Seth you have the best voice to listen to in radio, podcast, etc. Keep up the good work.👍

I'm glad that I'm an atheist.

This was great to hear. I also have a lot of sentimental memories from my 20 years as a believer, but I wouldn’t trade it for the peace of mind, lack of guilt, and clarity I have now.

That's a big problem with Jehovah's Witnesses is that their friendships are ALL conditional. Decide you no longer believe...or have doubts...and you will lose all the friends you have...lose family member privileges and perhaps your job if you are an employee of another Witness.

"Speaking in tongues" is one of the easiest religious claims to debunk. The entire POINT of the Holy Spirit giving it to the disciples in the first place was so that they could speak to anyone in any language, WITHOUT the need for a translator. If you go up to a person who has just "spoken in tongues" and ask them what "language" that they were speaking in, and ask for a word-for-word translation, their response is likely to be something along the lines of "Well, um. Er. I uh, umm...".

I am not a strident Atheist . I am what I call a " Small A" atheist . There is so much more that defines me . Atheism is just describes one thing that does not define me . Still its always interesting to me to hear the stories of people who were yoked by religion in every aspect of their lives leaving their faith behind them .

From the entrapment of Adam and Eve and the mass extermination of nearly every living thing on Earth to the self torture and crucifixion of his earthy body the Hebrew god Yahweh has left a trail of blood and ruined lives in his failed effort to force humanity to worship him and love him. What a heartbreaking story.

Hoping Richard Dawkins makes a full recovery.

14:33 Dan Barker starts here 42:58 Book discussion 47:24 Give me analogy of torture chamber

Read the book "Don't Sleep There are Snakes". Not directly about religion but the author goes to the Amazon in the 1960's to "Save" the natives and translate the bible to their language. Very interesting. The author goes to the Amazon a Christian and comes out an agnostic.

The analogy of the character inviting a passers-by into his house is excellent. I will use that.

I have a love / hate relationship with Dan Barker. I started to write a book a year and a half ago, angered by seeing Isis murdering people over their religion, angered by my neighbor who is a YEC. Then it started to hit me that just how many people in the world are delusional. I started to write, started to vent out all my frustrations of a non thinking world. I tried to show by reason things in all our daily lives that are just that, just bad luck or good luck. Tried to show Triblinka, Babi Yar or any of the atrocities of WWII that man can do to man. And I asked where was god then? Arguing with my neighbor ( YEC ) that the planet is 4.5 billion years old and showing the evidence, I loose in trying to convince him. Looking for evidence I listen to youtube, Seth Andrews The Thinking Atheist. I read Dr. Price's book and I read Dan Barker's book. Dan Barkers Book blew me completely out of the water with the Bible. Now I can't write, Dan has completely taken everything I wanted to tell the human race right out of me. I'm thinking I can't say it better than Dan. But I love Dan's information of the old testament. Dan's book should be required reading for every school kid, WORLD WIDE, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The more I research, the more I'm finding how scary the delusional world is. I honestly believe this is a brain disorder. If a person is unable to reason, if a person is unable to compare and think, WE ARE ALL IN TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I don't see Isis ever being completely eradicated from the planet, unless we educate. I can see Christianity reverting back to the Inquisition days, all because we can't think. I want to say "heaven help us" but knowing that is not going to work, I get frustrated. It's all up to us people, the thinkers, god isn't going to help us.

This sister without Christ really enjoyed this discussion. How could such a book be marketed to Christians to get them to read it? No doubt it will be read by mostly non believers, not the ones that really need to read it.

Thank you for the great talk. This reminds me of a pastor who came out of a cult based on Christianity in Korea. He said it took him months and months to get out of the cult even after he realized that he was following a false leader.

I didn't know about that time Jesus took the OT out of context. We repeated that damned "love the lord your god with all your heart/soul/strength" thing *every GOD-DAMNED WEEK.* We sang it, and I'm pretty sure we said it during communion or some other ritual we repeated every single service. _Every freaking remotely redeemable thing that I thought there was to my church has just been shit on by reality._ I'm getting exhausted of this perpetual cycle of disappointment.

I am a teacher and if religion is implemented in the classroom I’ll have a picnic with the curriculum !

The Abrahamic god is like an abusive husband. Love and obey me or I will punish you.

One of the best books l have read, long overdue, if you want a rapid critique of the bible this is it.The book is ideal for the budding atheist and gives a great lesson in gods character and moral stance.Tip ,just keep it near the front door giving instant referral for itinerant door knocking Christians .

Preaching is like a drug. Having the complete attention of every one in the room. It's intoxicating.

I have the book and I love reading it.Way more fun to read than the Bible😁

As one rabbi said... God created man and man returned the favor. The bible sounds more like how man thinks and behaves, not how an All Powerful Being would act or think. A perfect being would not NEED to be praised, obeyed, feared or unable to bear imperfection. Would a perfect being experience anger, hostility, jealousy, judgment and punishment? I don't think so but yet we are told constantly by the religious that we are imperfect for having the same feelings. Sigh. I do believe in Source/ Force/ Goodness/ Love but without all the bullshit.Believing in God doesn't make you GOOD and not believing in God doesn't make you BAD. If I've learned anything in my 63 yrs.it's that. If you need to be spiritually policed to be a good person.... you've learned nothing. Ok I'll get off my soap box lol :o)

What I find interesting about the separation of Church and State is that their is no separation in the UK, yet the UK is more secular than the US. My local church was across the road from my school, and every Friday the school was marched over there for service, and all major school functions took place there. Yet religion was forgotten about as soon as we marched back out of the church door. Personally I believe it is the religiosity of the population that is more significant.

That torture chamber in the basement analogy was spot on! I'm gonna be using that one. Great show, Seth!

In the 'you don't have to go down to my basement' scenario, I wouldn't keep walking. I'd *run* to the nearest police station.

God sure would be the most unpleasant character if he existed.

I would have never known of Dawkin's hospitalization if it were not for this. I wonder how that could be. I subscribe to so many science and atheist RU-vidrs. It really bothers me. Thanks for sharing.

Dan barker's book as good as any I have ever read documenting this maniac God.

That analogy (and im someone who watches creepypastas and horror films) creeped me the fuck out! IT was well done.. I loved the show...and I can see how creeped and fucked up the story was.

Just bought his book a day ago, now I just wait for it to arrive ❤

We have to make religious people feel as though they need to apologize for being religious by making them ashamed to be religious

great interview. the video version of this interview is great too. the only thing out-of-whack is the stop-motion of Dan's camera but this is a minimal distraction. looks like from the spacestation. Great book by Barker - I have my copy.

We can feel better for those women and kids of Jericho knowing that archeologists have looked over Jericho with a fine tooth comb numerous times and have found no destruction, and whatever walls there were didn't fall. In particular, nobody was living there at the time indicated in the OT.

Another fantastic episode. Very much looking forward to reading Dan's book.

I've read both God and The God Delusion in the past four years. Excellent reads.

Dan's book is great, but he misses one important adjective that was left out of his book. GOD IS ALSO A MURDERER, A FIRST DEGREE MURDERER. Now get back to reading the bible, and I'll give you a clue just where to find this. Genesis!!

I'm made of stardust. Much better than a pissed off ghost. I'll take a monkey with a pleasant attitude over a pissed off Yahweh.

I find it astonishing that Bible believers just conveniently disregard the passages of the Bible that portray God as very unpleasant! It is called cherry picking ?

My town puts up a nativity scene every year at Christmas, they also put up a Christmas tree. At night the nativity scene has 3 floodlights shining on it and the Christmas tree has no lights at all, not even on the tree. The nativity is right up next to the road, the Christmas tree is back off in a corner.

Dan’s voice sounds so young ! I thought it was a young man talking at first

Even if god exists, it matters not because we can gather knowledge only by thinking about what our five sense discover for us. This proves we cannot ever know what god wants from and for us! We can only know what priests want from us [and never what "the holy books" want from us]; which is obedience, money, adulation....

9:45 I'm disappointed that I never noticed that connection as an ex-lutheran. A book of the bible literally going "HAH, you want a personal relationship with god without fallible human intermediaries? NO, YOU GET A SMITING!" _Why the FUCK didn't we ever mention this?!_ (#734 or so, I swear I find a new reason to exclaim this every time the bible is recited....) edit: And it only gets better as the next group moves in "hey, why are you murdering thousands of your own people?" "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY METHODS YOU DIE TOO" *HOW THE FUCK DID THESE PEOPLE EVER CONVINCE ME THIS CHARACTER WAS "GOOD"?!*

Considering the amount of misogyny in the Bible, I do wish people would stop saying that a female slave is worth half a male slave counts as misogyny. Considering the work a slave would have to undertake, i.e. hard and brutal, the value was based on simple economics. Isn't the condoning of slavery enough to show God in a bad light in said passage? Additionally, in a culture where all men would likely have to bear arms to protect their families, women who would not be expected to, or also less capable, would be considered less than a man who was able to bear arms. Also stop calling biological ignorance misogyny. The exclusion of women from so many aspects of society, and treating as property, is enough misogyny. Too much of what we now call misogyny in the Bible was a cultural imperative for that society to survive. In today's world those practices are misogynistic. Not because they are inherently so, but because there is no requirement for those practices in today's culture. Women have gained equality in our culture as physical strength, and the requirement to bear arms has become less expected of a man and intellect has become more significant. The ignorance and barbarity displayed in the Bible is more than enough to ridicule holding it up as an example of how to live ones life.

I grew up in an old style Methodist church. Beautiful! I miss looking at all the beauties, the fresh flowers and the candles. That is all I miss. Never ever liked to listen to the preacher or teacher. I would purposely zone out. I thought the Christian religion was terribly awful and frightening since I was 5. I remember because of an incident. I am not an atheist but hate Abrahamic religions. I got reasons. I believe one should believe what they want but keep it to yourself unless you are discussing it in a larger conversation as philosophy. Never push anything on others and keep religion out of government and schools. Tax the hell out of them. It would pay the national debt.

that Jeremiah verse13:22 grossed me out. God tells rape victims that it's their fault they were raped because of their iniquity.

This is a fantastic interview!

This was fantastic.

Maybe God got real chill after becoming a dad. We all know you cant show your kid that you are a psychopath

I have heard Christians say (and I used to say this myself) "Jesus was a feminist and saw woman as equal" "Look at how he treated the women he came into contact with, he treated them with respect" (these are paraphrased) But if God is unchanging (as it says in the Bible) does that mean that god is still a misogynistic genocidal maniac that is okay with slavery? Cause the Old Testament god and New Testament god seem to be different. NT god seems to be trying a different tactic to get humans to love them (god).

You are both great speakers! I really love what you do! Thank you! It is so nice not to think, I’m alone in an asylum of lunatics, there are two other rational people with me. 🥳

Dan, Just got your book, can't put it down. Thanks for the work you've done to make this. Rita is right, believers won't read it, because we already know but it doe's give us ammo. Now with the recent Paris and Brussels incidents, we need TV documentaries education in schools. We need Nuclear power to educate the world or terrorism will go on for centuries.

Read "LETTERS FROM THE EARTH" by Mark Twain. It makes EVERYTHING so clear! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The great thing about the Old testament and Moses not having any archaeological evidence is that all this bloodthirsty action actually never took place. It just serves as a fear Factor😊 for those who don't want to obey the person who thinks they are God. Jesus has hell instead of the bloodthirsty

If you'd know just what Eph 4:18, "We fix our eyes not on what is is seen, but what is unseen" and 5:7, "We live by faith and not by sight" say, you'd know that the two verses command believers to spurn, hate, and reject knowledge. The word "sight" means knowledge, but the scribes were cunning and lying enough to replace the words "our common human knowledge and facts" [by which we solely survived on this planet] with "wisdom" and which is foolishness in god's sight. While some wisdom may be foolish; ie, not correct; knowledge and facts are never foolishness but very important for our survival, well-being, happiness, co-operations, sharing, etc.

I Love Dan’s Work!!! 👍🏿👊🏽

The craziest part of all this is that those extreme things never happened. Boogey-man scare myths. Morale tales for men.

I don't mind the ads for NatureBox. But, when salivating, I keep thinking it's a shame we don't have NatureBox in the UK. We can't check it out - despite hearing about it every week.

I can never understand why people who don't believe in god always attack him. If he doesn't exist why attack nothing.

The guy doesn't say "You don't have to go down into my basement....". He says he knows a guy who has a basement with torture equiptment, and he put his son down there, and you don't have to go into HIS basement. And this guy is invisible and communicates with you psychically but you're not listening.

Speaking as a woman with an interest in evolutionary biology, sociobiology and anthropology, attributing the historical gender roles of men and women to simply "male sexism" seems not only simplistic but also incredibly lazy.

Haha! Love the analogy!

Purpose in life is easy. Be good, correct wrong if you can. The rest you just make up as you go along.

God is not unpleasant. That maiden aunt who sticks her nose into every aspect of your life is unpleasant. God is jealous, capricious, cynical, psychopathic, and genocidal. And those are his good points.

As a non Christian even l have to admit that bizarre events have happened. The Bible has lots of contradictions but l think there might be entities that roam about unseen and occasionally show themselves. I just can't make sense of it.

When I was growing up, I grew up Baptist. One thing we could not do was play with our friends that were Catholic. But at school we would. So go figure we still got a place and we just ladies can come over our house. I just don’t. I never got that as a kid because in my eyes as a child, they were people they just went to a different church.

Hmmm…I had never heard the analogy of planning a vacation. Interesting perspective.

The most ficticious character in all unpleasantness

If God is omnipotent and knows everything, why do Catholics confess their sins to a priest so he can tell God, and assure they're repentant? ;] So in reality, their god knows nothing of the affairs of humanity. Lies like that [he knows all] are absurd!

While their discussions are fascinating and worth listening to 42:00 seems to be when they start referring to the book itself.

Sounds like in the Kórach story you definately didn't want to be one of god's "chosen people".

I graduate from Azusa Pacific University in 1990 with a degree in psychology

great book

I wish you didn't have to support yourself shilling for NatureBox. However, I'm going to support you anyway by... shilling for NatureBox. I do not receive any consideration from NatureBox. I am a customer of NatureBox. My wife and I get 2 shipments a month. The snacks are often unusual, even strange, but everything has actually been surprisingly very delicious. Of all of the many dozens I have tried, only one did I dislike. The value factor isn't bad either, though it is more expensive than similar snacks purchased from "health food stores". It would be unfair to compare NatureBox value against the crappy snacks available from normal supermarkets.

Oops we have a problem I've never met a good Christian there's no such thing

I don't remember Hell in the Old Testament anywhere. I know there's a Hell in the Norse religion, she was the Goddess of the underworld.

You can be an atheist and understand the meaning behind that "figure of speech" God. Zen Buddhism suspends judgement on the term while affirming the spritual foundation of the tangible, visible universe inside of us and out. We need not have "theism" mislead us or lead us away from the great I am of which we tangible, visible units are but a part.

EXCELLENT

I didn't see ANNIE, but that's interesting music information.

Rita, Yeah we'll read it but we all know someone who is a believer, so word will get around. Thanks to Seth and Dan for this ammo. I knew from just Numbers 31 that god was mean and evil, now I have nukes to use to educate people, boy still a tough road to travel to educate Islam.

I was preaching and "winning souls" at 17. Played piano in church and for groups. Went to Biola University, a leading Christian liberal arts college {near Azusa Pacific.}. Bible major. Went on to be a youth pastor, street evangelist, worship leader. Still speak in tongues. {if I want}. I went to different Pentecostal churches, then more "charismatic" churches. LOLOL. My life paralleled Dan's.

U guys r appreciated. Thank u

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as they agree with me. Democracy at work.

I would agree

I like the " torture chamber in the basement " analogy. Anyone who has an ability to think critically would not believe in any craps religion is preaching. I got out at a young age and would never go back.

The God as depicted in the bible and the Koran and the Torah is not all powerful

I agree with Craig on the point "If it's fleeting then it has no value".

Jesus never wrote any of the books of the bible...go figure.

I would agree, the destroyer

I find it odd that Dan says he can still speak in tongues? Speaking in tongues is nonsensical gibberish and should know that.

The Baptist church I grew up in South Dakota/Minnesota. We would do stuff with the Penecostal church in town because all the other churches were evil they didn’t have the true God true religion, so yeah I I totally get that. Stick it in time and shit. As I get out of that was crazy and even then I thought they were thinking it.

My two favourite athiest ❤

God - The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fictionand Profeth Muhammed as1st runner up

God scores 40 on Dr Robert Hares phychopathy checklist. Its the maximum score.

My head hurt so much when I puled this up an hour ago that I thought it was a Drunken Peasants video. I took some pills and now I realize it's Seth. :|

Dan is on the 10 headed Mt. Rushmore of Atheists along with Seth.

Just because you have to leave a party eventually doesn't mean the party wasn't great.