It’s what I liked so much about cherry bomb. What you hear at the beginning of the song will be completely different by the time you get to the end, like keep da o’s, Cherry bomb, 2seater
Cherry Bomb is ridiculously low rated amongst his fans. If the crowd of fans who came onboard for Flower Boy were around in 2015 i think it would have been recieved way differently. It was at the time a very clear and distinctly different focus than everything up to that point, and I think he had kind of taken on more of a Kanye-style producer role as opposed to making hard ass beats with funny kooky bars. At risk of sounding pretentious, I think cherry Bomb is way more "artistic" than anything he had done up to that point and was a massive turning point in how Tyler perceives himself as an artist
@@gobblegobble831 nah u're right. same reason why igor is less loved than last one and flower boy. same direction. also tyler was working with kanye while he was making wolf and kanye was making yeezus. crazy. wolf has good songs. the beginning of good tyler imo (kinda)
That little "GONE GONE GONE" harmony followed with those beautiful instrumentals that only appeared once in Gone Gone Thank You is my favourite moment that he's talking about 🥰
Beat Making: Coming up with the basic beat and hook for song. Composing/Writing: Creating an entire song from words, song structure, melody, bass line, drums, etc. Engineering: Finding the tonal balance between instruments and establishing the sound of each instrument/voice. Producing: Overseeing the crafting of every aspect of the song. Basically a culmination of all three roles and guiding everyone else involved to reach the final product. That’s just how I see it but I know they’re all pretty loose terms.
Spot on! I'd only add some things on here: Engineering: mixing the song, or making some instruments like the bass or guitar a little louder or hi-hat cymbals a little bit quieter. Producing: same description, but I'd add: giving ideas on how it should sound, adding opinions or approving/vetoing ideas or choices. Honestly, I only changed wording. You hit the nail on the head!
Sound mixing or engineering is completetly different from anything, a whole set of skills thats not mutual to producing and may actually be the harder of all the skills you listed. I can guarante you that tyler doesnt mix his own music and he sourced that to someone with decades of experience
no thats actually producing. beat making is making a pattern with kicks and other beat essentials while producing is mixing, transitioning, adding other sounds away from the regular beat making kit like instruments and choir and actually taking time to fully prosper a artistic sound for a song. producing has composing in it btw
@@aries9716 Mixing is actually an aspect of engineering more than production. There are certain objective factors that are required for a good mix, and you’re engineering if you step over from trying to fulfill an artistic idea to cleaning and optimizing the production for clarity.
Love what he says about “moments”. Having something only show up once can make it so much more, idk, “impactful”. The original “Hide and Seek” where the “chorus” (“mmm whatcha say”) only appears once and near the end of the song is one of the craziest examples of that I think
A producer to me can be the person making the core beat, someone doing a full composition or even just the sound engineer that mixes the project. These people are all producers to me as they are all integral to making a song a song. There isn’t like 1 type of production.
As an audio engineer, there is absolutely one type of production. These people have different titles for a reason. An engineer is not a producer. The producer of a track is explicitly the person or group with final say so on all creative decisions. An engineer’s job to clean up mistakes and make things as objectively “good sounding” as possible. The person making a core beat is removed from all of that, and they’re really just an instrumentalist in a sense. Now, there can be overlap and people wearing multiple hats, but at a base level, no.
Trashwang is the first song the comes to mind hearing this. The end of that track is the melody in my head, I wish so bad I could find it looped, but it makes it so special every time I hear jt
When he’s talking about the moments take notes. Variety in your songs is everything. Unique sounds and creative design. Guys a fucking production and musical genius.
It's down to the level of craftsmanship, ear for detail, knowledge and appreciation for the culture that defines a beat-maker from a producer -- whether a beat or full composition. Think Dilla for example. The guy was a genius across the board.
everything starts with a beat, beatmaker makes the melody, the rhytm, the idea, the vibe, artist makes only his vocals to it, producer makes the whole thing into a track, engineer makes it all clean and mix the track. so basically, everybody in the game, depends on the each other.. there wont be producer without a beatmaker and artist, there wont be a engineer without previous dudes, but there is always a beatmaker who can learn all these stuffs :D :D
producing is like arrangement, adding textures, colors, small parts, mixing to make it pops. beatmaking is more like composing the main melody/chord structure and make it into a semi full beat with drum and fx.
"I love the moments" I call them happy accidents sometimes. And that's an interesting distinction. A beatmaker isn't necessarily a producer. A producer nowadays acts like a modern composer. Something Morrison predicted back in the 60s when he described future artists as "a person surrounded by machines"
love his point about moments. to me it's a reminder that songwriting & production have to balance form (repetition/structure) vs. change/unique moments too much of either one is usually bad for the song
Honestly while I like what Tyler's saying this (plus depression) was the mindset that threw me in a huge beatblock for over a year. The idea that I had to get every little detail right and perfect before I could move on, or else it wasn't good enough, it got in the way of actually making music just by feeling it. I had the most powerful music tool on my laptop (Ableton), but couldn't get anything done. Nowadays I prefer just writing stuff on acoustic guitar cuz no sound design, no mixing, no nothing. Just notes and my voice.
maybe you were meant to be more of a hands on producer (meaning with instruments vs midi/samples) ... you spent too much time programming your sounds instead of getting the isntrument recording setup (mics, positioning, preamps) dialed in so that you could step back and play, then go back and collect what you wanna keep
Beatmaking is like a puzzle. There are pieces lying around and someone creative can look at the pieces and say "well this goes here, and that belongs here." and when they are finished you have a perfect picture. Producing is like having cans of paint and a blank canvas. You create what you want by painting it and drawing it. Putting just the right amount of red, yellow, blue, green. Then when they're finished it is a beautiful masterpiece. They both take talent, but there is a big difference within the two.
He's calling beat making short small short orchestrations or just rhythm tracks. He describes production more like orchestration or composition. Long pieces orchestrated to be dense and unique and lovely with lots of soundscape and timbres
@@prod.zer000 Lol, kinda - but only sometimes (like producing can include beatmaking, but you're not always making it with a beat/loop in mind - I think Tyler was talking about that when he mentioned "moments" - and also the whole idea of thinking about the track as linear (the most perfect 4 minutes))
Producing is like the full composition of an entire song. Beat making is making a fire loop to rap over with some drops and maybe a switch to a different loop.
I don't think so. Look at Rick Rubin, for example. One of the best producers ever, but he wasn't making beats with an MPC back then. He helped musicians and artist in their vision and direction. Also a bit of songwriting and arrangement I'm sure, but not beat making.
@@pimpsaintes I guess that’s what I get for speaking in absolutes, but Rick Rubin is a bit of a special case. But you’re right, he’s so in tune with the art of making great music that he doesn’t need to play an instrument or program a beat yet he’s definitely a producer. One of the best ever, at that.
@Rayne Ozier well to be fair, a "producer" in most genres is more akin to Rick Rubin without the MPC. When bands got together for the longest time their producers weren't the ones playing instruments
Beatmakers know how to manipulate a sample chop the fuck out of something producers can make it sound exactly as their way and build a complete song knowing the ins and outs (like literally could turn a fart into a masterpiece) And a musician is someone who could do it all no questions and actually heavily inclined with music theory I.e Mac Miller
A musician is really just someone who plays an instrument. They don’t have to know theory to be able to play, and they also could be horrible at production because it’s just not their field of expertise. Also, a producer needs to be musically inclined (arguably more than a musician) because they have to understand how instruments relate to each other to create a larger musical idea beyond what each instrument is doing individually.
Laymen's terms: A producer can bring the best out of the artist he's working with, in order to make the song the best it can be. A beat maker, simply provides the beat...with no input on content, the mix, nuances, drops, etc.
Executive Producing is even funner. Being in charge of getting everyone to come together and create magic. I've always loved funding and being the head of seeing such creativity come to life.
Beat making is a part of producing. But not all producers need to know how to be beat maker. Production is just having taste and ideas putting together the right people or elements to execute it
Yup. You can also be a producer without having those hard skills though, in many other genres and fields the "producer" isn't playing instruments or having their hands in the art in the most skillful sense
I get why Tyler is saying. And to some extent, I agree: there's a clear difference between basic beat making vs composing a full song, but like...even if you're just making a beat, you're still producing music in the end.
I guess everyone's definition is different. to me this discredits a lot of my favorite producers like basically anyone who samples. I feel like a producer is different based on the short term and long term influence they have. if they have influence that dictates how the song is finna go that's short term influence. if they influence a wave of upcoming producers than thats long term. once you have both you truly are a producer, but i feel like his definition is more like a composer to me than a producer,
I think you missed the point. It’s don’t about discrediting, it’s about distinguishing. You’re describing a beat maker. Beat makers can have influence on a song, but a producer sees the bigger picture as a whole.
@@TheSabotaje I love Tyler. But his description basically just described a composer. He didn't mention anything about working on lyrics, giving creative ideas or anything. He basically said if you don't know how to make each pocket of the beat different you're not a producer. The only thing he said about producing the song is knowing where the vocals go. Thats it.
@@eddiecardona1161 so beatmakers can be producers then. The song is the bigger picture, because it's bigger than just a beat. And its bigger than just an acapella. Its a blend of both. So if the beatmaker influences the song then they have influence on both. Which means beatmakers can be producers
Tbh they’re pretty different skills, I suck at making beats but can produce and arrange a song relatively well, the fact those dudes can make a 15 second loop and keep it interesting for nearly 3 minutes is a completely different skill set since you don’t have a B section to keep the listener’s attention
