Some stroke of luck, or by grace of God if you will. I have come by or stumbled into a new state of being. Rather I would say, I find myself awakened....to a whole new way of life. My prayer used to be, "Oh god, if there is a God, why hast thou forsaken me?" It has now only changed into something like this: "Oh God, if there is a God"..That bit "if there is a God" still remains unchanged.."Why hast Thou chosen to bestow all Thy divine favours on me?" But to describe in such terms as illumination, enlightenment, or even by the sanskrit word "moksha" or liberation, or even to use those fanciful words, first and last freedom, radical mutation, is to miss the point. It isn't a revealed religious truth. Or even, what we refer to as one beyond human intellect. There isn't anything mysterious about it. It is not what people talk of. As the spiritual apprehension of truth is intellectually incomprehensible. There is nothing mysterious about it. What has happened to me is a pure and simple physical phenomena. Somehow, the machinations of the mind have come to a stop. And the senses have started functioning or operating in a pure and simple way. That, itself, is an extraordinary thing. It is not a question of enlightenment, spiritually or intellectually, or in any form..Or to use that vulgar expression "get religious". There is nothing to get converted to any belief, or to any monastic state, or even to sit rapt in meditation seeking absorption into God or the Infinite or whatever you call it. It isn't a tale imagining or accounting a world in which ourselves do not exist. It isn't any inexplicable affair..It is an explicable affair. There isn't anything to make a mystery of This. If any such thing happens to an individual, he's not concerned with direct communion of the soul with God or any such thing. Then what then is the effect of This on conduct of an individual? It affects not only the conduct of the individual but the totality of the human....being. It is bound to affect others too. As the saying goes, "You cannot light a candle and hide it under the bushel". What do I think of Krishnamurti? His state of being..it being..cannot be different from that of those of the sages, saints, and saviours of mankind. The abstractions he throws at people is a kind of trick, as it were, to trick you into that state of mind where the mind comes to a stop, a sudden stop, and where something can happen. But if you repeat those phrases, it becomes a mere twaddle, a drivel, gibberish. They haven't got much substance. You might as well quote the Bhagavad Gita, or the Bible, or even Koran, or any one of these scriptures that doesn't make any difference at all. If I've added one more, a new set of phrases, that's all there is to it. Why repeat those phrases? Why talk of flowers? Where the eyes look at them and the ears listen to them, you are out of this structure once and for all. You will never ask these questions once again. What is there behind and beneath those abstractions that Krishnamurti throws at people? Is there anything at all? As a mind view, as a mind concept, as a mind vision, as a mind image, or even as a sanguine expectation, they sound marvelous. They're very charming words. If you really knew it, I don't think you would even want it. It is a dynamite. It isn't a thing to play with. Do I know it? What a question..Hah ..I really don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. If I tell you it is the same, what value has it? If I tell you it isn't the same, it has no value either. But why put these questions to ourselves? What is the way of knowing It, whether be it his or anybody else's? You have absolutely no way of knowing it. If by some luck, you stumble into it, it would be a completely and totally bewildering and puzzling sort of affair. You won't even bother to compare it with anybody else's. It isn't going to be the same...it isn't going to come about the way you imagine it, "spiritual awakening" or whatever you call it, isn't going to come about in the way you imagine it. It will come about contrary to all your imaginings. It will come about in a very simple and quite an unexpected way. But anyway, what exactly IT is...Can you tell me what IT is that you are seeking? Or that you want it? Or that you are trying to find out? Can you tell me? To change the entire structure and thought of civilization isn't an easiest thing. That means the very foundations on which the superstructure of our civilization rests must be shattered. That can't be done very easily, and that can't be done without a change in our intellectual and religious outlook. And the very educational system must change. But it's easy to say all that. Unless an individual changes, there isn't going to be any change at all, and even that change, must be one without volition. And that requires tremendous and arduous understanding. If it were that simple, with all the descriptions we have in the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures, everyone in India would have been a great yogi. For surely we have 8 million Sadhus wandering all over the country. There are so many claimants, to what you call the spiritual enlightenment, that the result that you don't know who is actually enlightened, or who is really and genuinely an authentic soul who has this spiritual awakening. Western disciples seem to be the measure of the greatness of a spiritual teacher these days. They have tremendous following in Europe, in America, and all over the world. Trotting around the world, talking to these people, has become very fashionable.
Your belief in a unitary movement of life is just a groundless belief, lacking any certainty. You have cleverly rationalized what the gurus and holy books have taught you. Your beliefs are the result of blind acceptance of authority, all secondhand stuff. You are not separate from your beliefs. When your precious beliefs and illusions come to an end, you come to an end. My talking is nothing more than the response to your pain which you are expressing through questions, logical arguments and other mentations. There is nobody here talking, giving advice, feeling pain, or experiencing anything at all. I have nothing here of my own, no obvious or hidden agenda, no product to sell, no axe to grind, nothing to prove. 💜
I think you are right.I read that too later. Osho's message gives courage to challenge all organised religion and UG's message goes further and gives courage to challenge all thought and real usefullness of accumulated knowledge.. We need to just take their message and move on from both Osho and UG. You are your teacher. Its all inside us. Sometimes we look for confirmation.
U.G. was a unique person, reading about his biography is unbelievable.. he was one of a few, who managed to live without wanting anything,... let him rest in peace.
It's Ug, he mentions jiddu krishnamurti's words as abstracions and says it's useless to speak of flowers because jiddu used an analogy of our limited perception by describing how we can't see a flower as it is because our senses and thoughts interrump the moment. good video, by the way, really enjoyed it
UG is very revealing to me. As I read and listen to a variety of people talk about this topic it becomes evident that one's personality before such a change profoundly affects one's experience of the change. Compare UG to JK to Ramana to Nisargadatta to Osho to de Mello. Each reflects a special insight and awareness in their own unique way. UG's happened to be somewhat depressive and pessimistic. Ramamna's and de Mello's were filled with love. Osho's seemed to be lust. It's all very interesting.
This truely is an inspiring and useful talk. Thanks so much AmberFlame1 for posting it. Like Jiddu his spiritual elder brother U.G was I feel in my heart genuinely 'awakened'. My much loved late spiritual teacher Sadhujivin (Mettaloka Sangha)was 'awakened' and often explained to me in the same vein his UNIQUE experience of awakening. I am currently receiving techings from another 'awakened' teacher David Smith (Dharma Mind Group)
One can 'become enlightened gradually' through 'letting go'. Or through the experience of great suffering one can make the sudden 'jump'. At least this is how it is perceived in space/time by the individual. A pile of sand cannot collapse unless it is first built up. Yet it is best not to focus on the build up of the sand nor the collapse. Thoughts are 'transcended' not stopped or rejected. U.G did not with volition try to stop his brain. He spoke from the heart to those ready to understand.
I was not a friend of UG... However I stumbled on this man long time ago when I was seeking JK's teachings. Even though at first, their words sound the same. These two man could not be any more different. UG's actions were in synch with his words. JK's life contradicted his 'teachings'. There is no path... yet he wanted to teach a new way. UG, as i see it, emphasizes the absurdity of using the mind, to understand the mind. Whatever analysis we make of our lives prevents us from being alive.
The single most important message I've ever seen online... and like as he calls him - Krishnamurti says... the word isn't the thing... all the talk about "it"... isn't it at all, but what UG and Jiddu were talking about - talking FOR - was just to point to it... to attempt - with futility most times - to cause a change in someone... to spark something that sets a person on the right path. It IS as if it comes by chance... by luck... and it came here too. And it's nothing like I could've imagined
This IS UG, you can even find this audio tape (without music) on that pretty nice website created for him. His voice is very much different from JK's, ...
Elahi elahi..lama sabachtani...is a very difficult phrase...for I release my hand...as you have learned to walk...I never deserted you..walk next to me...without my help...
Once the energy starts to come on, it's the end of you. I interpreted the ending of my "self" as more of a biological happening as well. 6 years of mindfulness and other bullshit and then one day, an energy starts in my forehead, spread to my entire body and just wiped me out. It was not some beautiful experience. It destroyed every part of me. It was weeks of pain and begging to die, but all that is left is my body and this sort of "bubbling" of new life. I would have spent my entire life searching if it was not for UG
@@didipapa338 There is no "state" to attain. Just like UG said many times "You do not want this" lol. The energy expands , and you lose your mind. Not in some beautiful, blissful way. It is torture. It takes everything with it. I did practice meditation for years, but the energy just hit me one day in my kitchen, and it has been tearing me apart every day since. UG is the only honest man I have heard regarding the experience
@@jonathonhardy54 my friend experienced the exact same thing, this kundalini process whatever you wanna call it, it lasted tor 5 weeks for him. Well yes, but is there something one can do to have this kind of a thing happen? Or is it just sonething that randomly happens to random people?
@@didipapa338 Obviously, there is no secret recipe, but there does seem to be a correlation between people who meditate etc and people who have this type of experience. As the mind starts to "see through" the old patterns etc, it makes room for more energy. As UG said, there is nothing you can do in any direction. BUT... if one starts to shift the way the mind was previously functioning, there has to be a shift in this energy
dude ..j krishnamurti and ug krishnamurti were friends before ug got enlightened even though he didnot admit it and continued to curse j krish...he didnt intend to actually disrespect him and any1 else..read biography of UG
another interesting take by UG! don't give a shit either way, though i do get alot out of anything i explore, flower language or not :) luv both J. and U.G., they were and still are both unique and awesome teachers (not gurus) thanks for posting this
ug says that this state is an illusion, to get to it by "training" for years (for your live) is a waste of time. but i think you have to find out youself. ...you are the one who has to decide either to work all your life to get to this very state ("enlightenment") and be disapointed (all your life) if you don't. or you don't want to have such a special goal and so try to be a relaxed person who just wants to be himself.
this is a edited audio that is in many UG archives so it does look to be real. the only thing that is different from this & other UG audio is, he is still speaking like a speaker, witch is what he was doing for many years B4 the calamity.
There was a girl called Suzanne Segal who stepped on a bus in Paris and reckons her ego had then just vanished. But she was puzzled (or disturbed) enough to go to therapists seeking an explanation. I thought when ego went you were like a 'bliss ninny',how could she seek explanation if her ego's gone? There's meant to be no SELF to SEEK an explanation? She wrote 'Collision with the Infinite'.
The only way to be "awakened" is by purging what you think all this is about. As long as we form some kind of abstraction, it is instantly unattainable because you are forming a concept out of abstraction someone else has put before you. That is why UG rejected everyone else. Not just because he thought they were wrong, but as long as you are putting someone else "above" you, you are missing the point. his is also why UG says each person is "unique" and "unparalleled" because all things....
After listening to this talk, illumination or liberation or the "natural state of being" sounds like a gambling game, no effort is necessary, no techniques, nothing... all one needs is a stroke of luck.
@sonofthedestroyer good question - no idea... is a god in control of this, or, was it set up by a god? maybe... I'm not one to say... Not one to say one didn't either. For whatever reason - it's available to us. It takes some wisdom to get there... some "work", but it can come quite easily too...
Well I haven't got there either and I'm sure you've tried a lot harder than I. I like the Sufis coz of their psychology, they believe in 7 different states, from the lowest ( ''nafs-i-ammara'' ,a very egoistic state) to very exalted ones. U.G. interests me as well because of his ''calamity'' experience.
@@premak7735 it's a tools & device of Radical Master to Awaken from our collective thoughts identification as own self , it's always since buddha's time their was same radical master was Vimal Kirti then before few century their was Drukpa Kunley - Tibet & Bhutan ... in last century have Gurdjieff & UG & Osho as well.... All Master's are pointing finger to the moon , but dog's look at it's finger only , jus like famous quote of UG - barking of a dog & we simply try to relate & think & thought about it .....
I am new at this....he actually shows a lot of respect to K which came as a surprise to me. So what "good" is this state. JK said that if you don't anchor in this state that you have really wasted your life...UG seems to say....well anyone please help ?
Well! Both UG and J Krishnamurthi talk about a physical phenomena. Another gentleman Gopi Krishan also tries to describe this as Bio Chemical reaction in the body. There appears to be an underlying common sequence of events in the physical anatomy before each of them go there own way in expressing that experience after the fact.
What we've witnessed here is an impression of enlightenment of witch there is no equivalent nore are there any parameters to messure qualities of enlightenment like there is no measurement of qualifing art. So...don't compare and be your self.
@MentalHygieneMusic I disagree. I met him several times, and he definitely was enlightened. I don't think you have begun to understand what enlightenment is.
U.G. experienced the calamity at the age of 49. There is a large gap between 49 and late sixties. I am just wondering why his voice in the video is quite different from the usual. I thought this was recorded before calamity.
Is it just semantics then as to what is ''ego death'' ? But Suzanne Segal obviously went through something AKIN to ego death, even if you don't want to define it as such because you say that would mean being a zombie.Likewise Sufis (particularly ''masts'' or ''God intoxicated'' ones ) must experiences SOMETHING, hence terms like ''fana'' (''annihilation'') and ''fana f'il fana'' (''annihilation of annihilation'').Annihilation of what, if not ego ? Nirvana itself means ''to blow out''.
Not UG at all, you can tell by the way he pauses and the way he uses his words, and by the way he would had never approached the term god in such way at the beginning, whoever crafted this messed up in the first minutes. After that blunder then he tries to accommodate the discourse along the lines of UG mindset.
allan watts talks about that briefly, how every once in a while this happens to people who have no background in "this type of philosophy" (or this subject) and they go "whacked out bliss ninny" and think they've gone crazy or that something is wrong with them.
In my opinion spirituality is a condition of the heart and cannot be accomplished by study or piety and by looking for the truth you first have to learn to be sincere toward yourself
I kind of like it that many are wondering which Krishnamurti it is......... . :) What a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful reflection ---> and a flower still is a flower ❀
What does McKenna's opinion matter? Just because he's "known" and "reputable" as being "smart" you think that means his words carry weight? He is as clueless as the rest, and that is why he has gained that status. Really what matters is what *you* think - your own experience, your own awareness. Quoting others is no good, it shows your house has no foundation, your arguments no substance, your perspective no salt. That you use others as an excuse to be free from your own free will...
I hear him engage in criticism, a kind of comparison which causes him dislike. A reaching out to discredit another previous mentor. I observe from this speaker these comments that place division between humans. His words abstract a physical experience he describes; and beyond that similar statements to his mentor. However I do not observe any observation from him, of the intellectual processes which dominate the minds focus, and dull the senses so. Do you others see these aspects also?
In his later years u g used to reject every spiritual claims as gibberish. Perhaps it was his trick to guard people against their mind getting contaminated by accepting such claims as true and thus blocking their own understanding of truth with freshness of mind.
This is UG, not JK ... this talk he gave very early after the calamity, as he called it ... peculiarly there he still seemed to have the idea of influencing others to delve into his state ...
I feel he was clearer here than any other video on what he believes. But he still seems to be somewhat pulled by supernatural ideas. The later videos he never mentions God in such a way. He has a few good ideas and I agree with him, but he wasn't an exceptional thinker. He had a few poor ideas in my opinion.
Kamalesh Singh jiddu and UG are friends turned enemies, this is UG for you, he has that arrogant finish at times. Both are contrast in nature but definitely informative if not intelligent.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a bit of that ! Poor Alan Watts just got whacked on alcohol (ooh controversial, is my pesky ego looking for an argument here ? ;-)
It’s not fake. I knew U.G. personally for over 20 years and this is an authentic audio of UG talking, but they added the weird music. This was very early after the calamity and as time went by his way of speaking and being with people changed quite a bit.
