Ultralight Gear I Would Use if Thru-Hiking in 2024

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Check out new gear at GGG: geni.us/New-GGG
PackWizard Gear List: www.packwizard.com/s/41vlGyM
👇 GEAR FROM THE VIDEO 👇
Mariposa Pack: geni.us/GGG-Mariposa
Plex Solo Tent: geni.us/PlexSolo
Enigma Quilt: geni.us/enigmadown
Ultra 3R Pad: geni.us/Ultra3R
Pillow: geni.us/DreamSleeper
Loop Patches: geni.us/StickOnLoop
Toaks 550mL Pot: geni.us/Toaks550UL
BRS3000 Stove: geni.us/BRS3000t
Pot Gripper: geni.us/MiksaPotGripper
Pink Spoon: geni.us/PinkSpoon
Quickdraw Filter: geni.us/PlatyQuickDraw
Bottle Flip Caps: geni.us/Sportcaps
Food Bag: geni.us/HilltopPacks
Rovyvon Flashlight: geni.us/RovyvonA5X
Carbo 10000 Battery: geni.us/Carbo10k
InReach Messenger: geni.us/InReachMessenger
Wall Charger: geni.us/SpigenWallCharger
Enduro 2 Watch: geni.us/Enduro-2
3in1 Cable: geni.us/InCharge3in1
Toothpaste Tabs: geni.us/UnpasteTabs
Swedish Cloth: geni.us/SwedishCloth
DCF Bowl: geni.us/BeenCampinBowl
Bidet: geni.us/CuloClean
Bogler Trowel: geni.us/BoglerTrowel
Powdered Soap: geni.us/PikaSummitSuds
Vertice Rain Jacket: geni.us/VerticeJacket
Torrid Insulated Jacket: geni.us/TorridApex
ALTERNATIVES
Durston Kakwa Pack: geni.us/Kakwa55
Lunar Solo Tent: geni.us/LunarSolo
X-Mid Pro 2+ Tent: geni.us/XmidPro2Plus
Xlite Pad: geni.us/XliteNXT
Trekology 2.0 Pillow: geni.us/TrekologyPillow
------------------------------------------------------------------------
⭐ MY FAVORITE GEAR ⭐
Garmin InReach Mini: geni.us/InReachMini2
Decathlon Down Jacket - geni.us/Trek100DownJacketM
REI Flash 55 Pack: geni.us/Flash55
Enlightened Equipment Enigma Quilt: geni.us/enigmadown
Garmin Fenix Watch: geni.us/FenixWatch
Lanshan 1 Pro Tent: geni.us/Lanshan1Pro
------------------------------------------------------------------------
📷 MY FILMING GEAR 📷
Sony ZV-E1: geni.us/Sony-ZVE1
GoPro Hero 11: geni.us/GoPro11
Insta360 One X3: geni.us/Insta-360
Rode Wireless Mic: geni.us/Rode-Wireless
Komperdell Camera Staff: geni.us/CameraStaff
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONNECT WITH ME!
Website: justinoutdoors.com
Facebook: / justinoutdoors
Instagram: / justinoutdoors
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This video description includes affiliate links. Affiliate links help support the channel at no extra cost to you!

Опубликовано:

28 мар 2024

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Комментарии : 136

@JustinOutdoors 3 месяца назад

@ayehodgy5675 2 месяца назад

why are your through hike days over?

@ryanb3908 2 месяца назад

@@ayehodgy5675 Bum cancer I'm afraid.

@Andy-Mesa 2 месяца назад

I do appreciate the title of this video, "Gear I would use" instead of "Best ultralight gear". I don't know if you did this consciously, but it shows that this list is subjective to the person and I appreciate you making that clear. You seem to also say as much in the video. I want to give positive feedback about ways I see you improving instead of just being critical.

@District.24 2 месяца назад

Demo-ing the bidet. My boy Justin is fearless. Great channel. 😊

@rgmALC 2 месяца назад

If you’ve been a subscriber for a while, you’ve seen that clip ALOT. It’s a lot of reused footage featuring the same gear over and over

@Maestro2014 2 месяца назад

You should do a review on some of the new MEC ultralight stuff. Aphelion sleeping bag, pace UL 40, vectair UL. Pair it up with a spark 2.0? I’m sure the Canadian crowd would love to see it!

@anthonyng8800 Месяц назад

Of all the ultralight hikers on YT, you seem to have the most dialed in system. A truly refined minimalist vibe. Bravo 👏

@CrippleCreekStudios 2 месяца назад

I really appreciate the bidet demonstration. I kinda wondered about how that was done.

@northernswedenstories1028 2 месяца назад

Not detailed enough

@veraunchipman3582 2 месяца назад

When will you be ready to talk about the new lid you’ve been using on Toaks pot?

@JasonSnailer 2 месяца назад

Thanks Justin

@backpackingcapebreton 2 месяца назад

If you live in Canada, GearTrade is basically the Canadian version of GGG. Buying from GGG and shipping to Canada can get pretty cost-prohibitive due to shipping costs and duty taxes.

@Greghikes1 2 месяца назад

Agreed!

@woodchip2782 2 месяца назад

@@Greghikes1 I agree. When I buy small gear, sometimes shipping costs more than my order!😮

@okidokiyogi1 2 месяца назад

Jesse at gear trade is my go to in canada!

@dekcarc 2 месяца назад

Enjoyed the bidet demonstration.

@Awomaninthewilderness 2 месяца назад

Justin, great UL video! I see the"lid" made another cameo appearance, I recently discovered the lid from the Chockfull-of-nuts coffee can fits perfectly over the Toaks 650 Light pot with it's lid. I only boil water for dinner and cold soak the rest of the time.

@lb7661 2 месяца назад

I destroyed ultralight stuff so quickly, and it cost me quite a bit to keep replacing things. I'm back to using mid-weight gear.

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

For sure, everyone is different. if you're hard on gear, some UL stuff might not make sense.

@jeffreycarman2185 2 месяца назад

There are always going to be trade offs for backpacking gear in weight, usability, reliability, durability, and cost that each person has to navigate.

@stevenbrewer8788 2 месяца назад

I’m still figuring that out too. My recent Hayduke section hike took its toll on my Mariposa, so I’m switching to heavy duty ultra (SWD rugged) and taking a slight weight penalty for the longevity…

@PedroArvy 2 месяца назад

Can I ask what gear you destroyed and how that happened?

@lb7661 2 месяца назад

Yeah, definitely hard on gear. Frequent punctures and tears to tents (I had the worst luck with ul tents). There is also some light rain gear that I would tear literally right when putting it on or in the first hour of wearing. I am quite clumsy. Those mayflys would be toast on me. The gossamer gear packs do look really nice and functional.

@IPv6Freely 2 месяца назад

Love seeing such heavily worn Space Bear Bags stuff!

@ma9gie Месяц назад

I just ordered this poop bag from space bear. I’m excited to get to use it on my next hiking trip!!!!

@RangerJay904 2 месяца назад

Nice man ExPed pad! Yes! I went from ThermaRest Uberlite to the Ultra 1R WIDE edition 😴 Worth the weight, the vertical baffles let me just die in one spot I don’t slide off

@sk-wx1cf 2 месяца назад

Nice video. I really wanted to like the Mariposa but it was just not a good fit for me. Instead of mayflys, i like water shoes that i got on amazon for evenings in camp. happy hiking y'all!

@TonyArechiga 2 месяца назад

Backpack bidet is something I'll never leave home without! That changed the game for long hikes! Haha

@lcdrjsmasterson 2 месяца назад

Magic indeed...

@ropersix 2 месяца назад

I have a Mariposa and didn't realize the waist belt was removable. But I had a look, and yeah, if you remove the frame, it frees the belt to slide out. Cool. I got some holes in the bottom of it my first trip out (in the desert) and was bummed I bought it. But I couldn't return it, and didn't want to spend money on a different pack, so I kept using it, and now kinda like it.

@cypriano8763 2 месяца назад

i like that your a real, unpretentious guy

@Wondering_Fireball Месяц назад

Great place to buy cottage brand gear. Gear is always evolving. As for tents! I’ll stick with my Durston X Mid pro 2 or 2+

@TonyArechiga 2 месяца назад

I loved my Mariposa but I got tired of the back sweat on that one. The Zpacks Arc keeps the pack off your back and you get a nice breeze through there! Stay nice and dry! Ha! Worth every penny on a thru-hike!

@tc2156 2 месяца назад

I have the OG Mariposa. I use an older Zpacks Solplex (2 pole) and keep it in the tall side pocket. I keep my sleeping pad in the hydration bladder pocket. The 2024 version is tempting because of the new straps, belt, and load lifters. But no hydration bladder pocket for my sleeping pad. 😢 Plus my OG Mariposa is still in great shape.

@Nickropolis 2 месяца назад

Pink spoons are the speed holes of backpacking.

@danielcluley870 2 месяца назад

Mariposa is a cool design, but it is kinda just too big for me. My go-to packs do have removable hip-belt/pockets and frames. My new go-to is my Atom Packs custom. Fantastic versatile UL design. (you're gonna wait MONTHS for it though!) Also thanks for the tip on the Exped. I am a flopper and a side sleeper and if that pad is comparable to a NeoAir, but rectangular and longitudinal baffle I will def try it out!

@wizardthinker 2 месяца назад

Wow, this is great! So intrigued by the clips on the pad that hold the quilt in place. Anyone know where they’re from? I slip off my pad all the time! 😅

@theap3x329 2 месяца назад

Hey Justin, I'm interested in the clippable pot lid you showed in the video. Is there a link to that, because I'm done with that flimsy o.g. one. Best regards from Germany :-)

@ZZ_90 2 месяца назад

Love the list of your gear man, great video! Question regarding ZPacks. My fiancé and myself are hiking the JMT in August and are in the market for a good 2 person tent that can hold our packs. I am wanting to lean ZPacks, but don’t know which one to pull the trigger on. I don’t know if you had any recommendation but we were thinking either the Duplex, Triplex, or Offset Duo? Any advice would be great man! Again, thanks for the video, and time to put out content!

@jonsanford2515 2 месяца назад

Zpacks Duplex is tight with 2 people. It’s not big enough for 2 people and packs inside, unless you’re using a short pad and putting your empty pack under your feet. There’s room in the vestibules for packs if you don’t need them inside. Duplex is also not made for 2 25” pads. You can squeeze them in, but it works better with a 20” and 25”. (or 2 20”) If you’re consistently sleeping 2 people, you’d probably be happier with the triplex in the long run, and it’s not much heavier. (21 vs. 18oz).

@woodchip2782 2 месяца назад

Hi,Justin! I was wondering if you have ever tried a “Northern Ultralight” pack? It’s a small company in BC and that pack is a tough cookie!😊 It doesn’t have what you prefer from a pack but it’s a great performer that you can have customized to your specs. I’m near Montreal and I pack weekenders in the Eastern Townships. It does all I need. Just have a look their way for a peek!..🇨🇦

@District.24 2 месяца назад

@justinoutdoors. Hi, Justin. In your opinion, which pad is the firmest: Therm-a-rest xtherm or the Exped Ultra 5R? I have spinal stenosis, so I require a firm pad. Thanks.

@eric55406 2 месяца назад

I love the Pink Titanium Spoon! I have a titanium spoon, but mine is not pink and magic!

@stockbulll 2 месяца назад

You might want to paint that pot grabber a bright color so it doesn't get lost so easy.

@Truth-Seeker75 2 месяца назад

On the Plex Solo or AltaPlex, don’t you feel the sloped wall makes contact with your shoulder as soon as you lean up?

@jennymckinnon7054 2 месяца назад

Ok I've used the bidet before, but have never heard of anyone using the soap on the hand method before. Interesting. Not sure if I'm ready for that yet. Lol But, will keep that in mind. Especially if I run out of toilet paper!

@kelkel3883 2 месяца назад

Have you heard of the American Discovery Trail, and would you hike it?? It runs from coast to coast and splits in two for a northern route and southern route and then meets back up to finish the trail. I live in the Cincinnati area and know part runs through here and I so want to get on and travel for a bit so badly! I know roughly where to get on, but not the exact spot.

@andymytys 2 месяца назад

The Mariposa needs a roll top with a Y-top strap and it would be near perfect.

@arthurvino 2 месяца назад

Hi @JustinOutdoors - Gossamer Gear just redesigned Mariposa, check it out. 2) When are you releasing that Pot cover?

@e2dub Месяц назад

In my experience the Mariposa doesn’t handle weight all that well. I bought and tried out two sizes of the Mariposa. Loaded with 32 pounds to test them. The hip belt would deform under the relatively moderate weight. More specifically, the upper, rear part of the belt would deform outward under load, making it so the bottom edge of the belt was pushing uncomfortably into my lower back. On a long hike this could get uncomfortable. Under the same load test, the Durston Kakwa handled the 32 pound weight MUCH better and the belt showed no propensity to collapse. I actually returned the Mariposa and borrowed a Durston Kakwa 55 Ultra for my multi day Grand Canyon trip. It’s a bit warm due to lack of ventilation but otherwise is a brilliant design, is bomber build , and rides very well.

@jasonwondersoutdoors3702 2 месяца назад

I’m curious about the comparison of Swedish cloth vs chamois (shammy) for water absorption. Any thoughts??

@BryanManning 11 дней назад

@justinoutdoors looks lke you hiked through RRNCA ...for a really cool adventure there, next time try the Red Rock Crest

@ianbayne7197 2 месяца назад

Thanks for the video, Justin. Why did you select the GG Mariposa instead of your beloved REI Flash?

@boredandagitated 2 месяца назад

I’m guessing weight. Flash 55 is 1247 grams, mariposa is 930 grams with frame and belt, around 500 grams with no belt no frame like he uses it

@summoningmoon4560 2 месяца назад

The Exped mat is also more sustainable than Thermarest as its made from bluesign and oeko tex approved materials and contains recycled polyester.

@smallberries 2 месяца назад

Great video. Justin, what is that pot lid? Looks like it grabs onto your fuel can? I can't find it in your gear list

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

;)

@wannaberacerrob 2 месяца назад

@@JustinOutdoorscoming soon?

@zakafx 2 месяца назад

@@wannaberacerrob Suluk46 also has one in the works, unless Justin is a tester for him! Can't wait for either one to release it. Edit: nevermind the tester part of my comment, these are 2 different lids altogether. Either way I want one!

@SuperdutyExplorer 2 месяца назад

Nice gear video, but it's gonna be a l9ng time before I'm ultra light haha 😂

@RUreddynow 2 месяца назад

What's up with the purple pants that you almost always have on? Just curious 🤔

@therealronswanson Месяц назад

i never knew it was called swedish cloth. Here in sweden we call it a wettex cloth from the orignal brand of washcloth.

@jeremycastleberry Месяц назад

You mention a lot of bags - but i don't see them on the gear lists?

@flutingaround 2 месяца назад

The pillow link goes to Amazon and a long list of pillows?

@venkatinator 2 месяца назад

Wow surprised the small canister lasts 10-14 days. How many mL do you boil per day?

@iwasapirateonce1639 2 месяца назад

I wonder how those EXPED 5R/3R mats hold up, I have the EXPED SynMat HL and while comfortable and light I find it develops annoying coldspots at ~5c (even with a 1/8 foam mat underneath). It uses the same horizonal baffles but the side baffles (rails) have no insulation which is a problem in colder temperatures especially with a quilt. Agonizing a bit over what to replace it with, I wonder if the 3R would be significantly warmer? Pretty bad sleeper and a bit torn between the Nemo Tensor All Season, Xlite, Exped 5R or 3R.

@daven.7685 2 месяца назад

I sleep on the 3R, and I don’t notice any cold spots on the rails or elsewhere. I find it to be a very comfortable pad.

@markswishereatsstuff2500 2 месяца назад

There's a new lighter Plex Solo and Duplex. I think the lighter Dyneema body of the original is now the floor and an even lighter weight is used for the body. For me, my original Plex Solo is delicate enough.

@wesleyfoster6173 2 месяца назад

Are the trekking poles included in your tent weight? I didn't see them in your Packwizard.

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

Forgot them in the list, added now! Thanks!

@malinorcutt1421 2 месяца назад

Would you recommend bringing a lightweight down puffy also for colder nights once at camp or thermals at all? Thinking about places at higher elevations or possible snow at times

@sk-wx1cf 2 месяца назад

I always bring a puffy and baselayers. I'm usually in the mountains.

@malinorcutt1421 2 месяца назад

Thanks for the replay and info!

@farbeyonddriven8173 Месяц назад

Since you brought this up, let's deep dive. I have basically taken "leave no trace" as far as possible. After being around Island Lake in the Winds and uncovering other peoples cat holes (not the first time this had happened but the last) I started hauling the paper and turds with me. I throw together wag bags at home. I don't get this bidet thing and have not tried it. I'm a dude and generally I form nice compact turds that just need a courtesy wipe and away I go so in this scenario a lil squirt of water would suffice I think. But then there are the other times when I need to pinch in off and there are "left overs" that are much off the reason to wipe an ars to start with. To me, only squirting in this instance would be the opposite of feeling tidy. Are you really telling me you don't have TP for back up? And did you just imply that you wipe with your hand?

@scottyplug 2 месяца назад

J Money G. Why do you say your thru-hiking days are over?

@stephenslipp6717 2 месяца назад

Magic 😂

@raikoshumi 2 месяца назад

how are you getting 8 days out of a 10k nitecore?

@monsterram6617 2 месяца назад

3:53 I get the idea. This just seems way over the top.

@tanvach 2 месяца назад

One problem I have found with the Mariposa is how the load lifters were not implemented correctly. The top of the straps were not attached to the frame, so it did almost nothing to pull the weight closer to my back. Was wondering why for a long time I feel the pack didn't carry as well as I hoped, but this is apparently fixed with the just released 2024 version.

@tc2156 2 месяца назад

There is a guy on Etsy who sells a modification for the OG Mariposa’s load lifters. It does seem they fixed the issue with the 2024 version.

@iluvbike 2 месяца назад

@@tc2156 thx for tip!

@jameslisterman 2 месяца назад

Justin been watching you forever . Where do you get that plastic snap on lid you use in your toads pot

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

Stay tuned ;)

@jameslisterman 2 месяца назад

I will and when are you gonna checkout. The Nashville packs the cutaway. Great pack

@northernswedenstories1028 2 месяца назад

Bro. How do you get so many days out of a 110g canister? Do you not make morning coffee?

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

I only boil 200-500mL for dinner at night

@b0mazor Месяц назад

But if you lose that pot handle, which is black and rather small, you'll be forever without a pot handle. You could in a pinch use a cloth and try not to burn yourself but for the extra ~1gram just get a pot with handles. Heck carry ~2 grams and get a nicer handled pot. I like to compare grams to mL of water, sure maybe 100g~300g may be in the realm of deal breakers to consider but 25g~50g is really a thimble of water; if your not in the desert where every drop counts you could just carry 25ml~50ml less water and there'll be no difference on your back, in your bottle, and in your spreadsheet.

@skpowerz 2 месяца назад

"thru hiking days are behind me" why though? definitely not too old, and you sprinted the GDT like it was a race! would love to see more long distance trips from you

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

Over the next few years, I think I'll be staying in the 10-14 day range on the absolute high end

@zakkmiller8242 2 месяца назад

I still dont believe using your hand to wipe away poop is the cleaner way to go number 2 lmao

@jeffreycarman2185 2 месяца назад

Does anyone know of a US source for the Big Sky DreamSleeper? It does not seem to be available on Amazon or on their own website…

@Andy-Mesa 2 месяца назад

Their supply is wonky. I've purchased two of them, one on their website a while back and on Amazon more recently, but I had to wait until they were available.

@jeffreycarman2185 2 месяца назад

@@Andy-Mesa thanks!

@FOXMAN09 2 месяца назад

The bidet demonstration should have been the thumbnail. This video would have 100m views

@playnationtoday 2 месяца назад

Purple pants

@druhol6753 2 месяца назад

You will break a toe on those mayfly’s. I got them over a year ago and wore them my first and only time at the Adirondacks in camp. I stubbed my toe one time on a tree root took them off and never put them on again. I can’t justify the risk of limping out just to save a couple ounces

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

I've been using them since they came out three years ago - no problems yet!

@druhol6753 2 месяца назад

@@JustinOutdoors could be different out here on the east coast. Pa and upper state NY are very rocky and rooty, as I’d venture to guess the Appalachian trail is not too dissimilar. I’d be wary of leaving my tent to take a whizz in the middle of the night in those things.

@sk-wx1cf 2 месяца назад

Personally I wouldn't use the mayflys. I use water shoes that I got on amazon for camp.

@lukewaite9144 17 дней назад

10,000 mAh for 7-8 days?? Tbf my phone battery is coooked you could be right on that one

@healthywealthyhappy777 Месяц назад

So just $10k more and i can be ultra light too !! 🥰

@DanielOutdoors 2 месяца назад

You mention all your drugs, didnt know that was the new GOAT for ultralight packing. 😅

@FedorAntony 2 месяца назад

“… all my drugs” Please elaborate. Do they make everything feel even more ultra lightweight? 🧐😂

@CanadianSkylights 2 месяца назад

The new Mariposa is much heavier than you listed

@JustinOutdoors 2 месяца назад

It looks to be 29g more

@CanadianSkylights 2 месяца назад

The lightest configuration with hipbelt is a small with small hip belt at 932 grams, where were you looking? 62 grams heavier than what you listed and I imagine your is not a small small? Just curious @@JustinOutdoors

@lilianm7151 2 месяца назад

I have to disagree on the Gossamer Gear Mariposa. While it has a ton of features and is light weight, imo it doe not carry well over 25lbs. Plus the load lifters are utterly useless.

@bewhiskeredjuarez6851 2 месяца назад

Your through hiking days are behind you!? Say it ain't so

@karlg4606 2 месяца назад

5:31

@ayehodgy5675 2 месяца назад

i have no idea why i just cant get over the bidet situation using your bare hand on poop just seems so wrong

@AaronVets 2 месяца назад

The water touches your poop not your hand. LMAO

@ayehodgy5675 2 месяца назад

you squirt the water on your butt then put soap on your hand to clean whatever poop is left on your butt no? @@AaronVets

@ayehodgy5675 2 месяца назад

the water cant get everything so you put soap on your hand and clean whats left right? @@AaronVets

@ifell3 2 месяца назад

It's a tricky one, shave your butt and get a sweaty butt, or leave the hairs in place and have more pop to wash off. God I hope someone is reading this whilst eating their dinner 😅

@tc2156 2 месяца назад

😂 I’m reading this while drinking a beer. But I worked in healthcare for 17+ years, so not much bothers me. 😂

@ifell3 2 месяца назад

@@tc2156 my kind of woman aha same, we can be eating lunch and talking about stoma bags, catheters and most bodily fluids. It's just boggies that gets me. 😆

@Casual_BackPacking 2 месяца назад

You can wash the bum and use paper 😅

@ciscokid1999 2 месяца назад

Justin, those Mayfly sandals in my opinion are just ripping off people in the hiking/camping community. The sandal probably cost $14 (=/- )to make, its that material they make yard signs from with lashing, and they market the "UL". If you step on a rock/twig they are toast and d if i have to look at every step you take to ensure they don't blow up that's crazy. Might as well wear glass slippers....Why advertise companies that rip people off? Sorry had to vent, some of these companies are just thieves. Great vlog....

@wolfeadventures Месяц назад

100%. Everyone I know who got them said they were total complete rubbish yet in gear videos they get praised.

@deanherring8623 Месяц назад

Not sure you should call your "pack" a pack. Sounds like it was more like a soft bag with a couple of shoulder straps.

@FPGVlog 2 месяца назад

I won't use a backpack without a hipbelt.. it's heavy on the shoulders..all the weight is on the shoulders.. especially for long hiking.. I don't recommend this bag..

@Andy-Mesa 2 месяца назад

Recommending a nylon backpack in 2024 is...a choice.

@backpackingcapebreton 2 месяца назад

Paying $200-$300 more for a pack that weighs an ounce or two lighter just for trail-style points is also ... a choice.

@Andy-Mesa 2 месяца назад

@@backpackingcapebreton The alternative recommendation (Kakwa) is cheaper, lighter, more feature packed, has a bigger load capacity, and is more durable.

@arthurvino 2 месяца назад

GG just redesigned Mariposa. Was hoping for at least UltraGrid, but no, they kept nylon. I was disappointed.. Mariposa in Ultra200x or UltraGrid would be a nice upgrade.

@Andy-Mesa 2 месяца назад

@@arthurvino Nylon is super cheap. The margins on a nylon backpack at $315 is waaay better than Ultra. Plus the fact that they'd have to source it, find new manufacturers, test it, etc which is all sorts of R&D they don't wanna pay for.