The beauty of umineko for me is that when you finally reach the end, have all murders solved and secrets revealed...from that moment your only wish is for magic to be true.
@@rkr9861 Every time Ikuko show up to Ange, the narrative basically describes her as higher dimensional supernatural entity. Ikuko and FEATHERINE are actors for the Boundless Creator. They transcend the boundary between Illusion and reality. Therefore, "Ikuko" can use Ruleless Magic.
magic is real as long as the cat box is closed. Don't forget that while Beatrice set the rule that proving a human solution was possible would deny the existence of magic to give Battler a fighting chance, but while that defines the win condition for the game it doesn't mean anything when looking for the truth. After all, this only proves how Yasu _could've_ done all of this, but it doesn't prove in any way that they did. The only thing that ultimately can open the cat box is the diary of Eva, but canonically only Ikuko read it (Ange only got the diary in the meta world so anything she might've read there is inattendible) and while we know whatever's in there should be proof that magic isn't real for all we know there could be just written "fuck you Ange I'm not telling on each single page. so magic is still real if you can see love.
@@npc6817 thank you, i guess diving deep (hehe) into the cat box made me so fallen in love with all the madness, so one just gains the ability to see that all suitable solutions may be simultaneously true and false, even if it is the great witch Beatrice killing an innocent family. I mean, we'll never know, right
@@lalajun5902 Believe it or not, I thought the Anime was interesting enough that I then looked up and played the Visual Novel. So if nothing else, it did that mush. That, and of course, the killer opening and ending songs.
I always felt like Battler lost his way. As he originally fought for a happy ending, but later focused on denying the witch's existence instead of aiming for a happy ending
Long before Sayo was interested in committing murder, she and Battler shared an interest in detective stories. In chapter 7, when Clair is recounting their history, the idea of a 'witch' being the culprit to a murder committed by a human and the battle between those ideals had already been established within their mind, so it's very possible this was passed along to Battler during their murder mystery book club. He may have forgotten his promise but it's possible he remembered something about that concept; so when 'The Golden Witch, Beatrice' showed up at the tea party, he refused to believe it. This started the game between him and Beatrice (though that's probably a fabrication by Sayo, sending a few bottles to sea chronicling the story we read), but the motivation for him flat refusing the existence of Beatrice is a result of seeing what she does with that power. In Chapter 2, it's explanatory that giving up doesn't mean he gets to rest. Admitting that Beatrice is magical to avoid the pain of acknowledging a culprit only results in torment. In Chapter 3, it's revealed that even if he has faith in some idea that Beatrice could change, not be so terrible, it's all a lie fabricated for the purpose of manipulating him. By the time Chapter 4 rolls around, he comes to the realization that there is no choice in the matter--in the battle between himself and the witch, losing is not an option. Add the pressure of Ange trying to pull him out of the events of October 4th, and killing Beatrice appears like his only way to secure that 'happy' ending. He has wholly lost himself in the battle of wits, believing there is no space for a better ending.
I actually used that in a fic! "[Gulp] Ahh... Whaddya call that again? Petit... Guh!?" [Dead] And that's how Booze Can Kill You. Molecular Murder: Killer Cuisine...
One thing to note is that in it's original form - Umineko didn't have these explanations and manga was made to be sort of a 'director's cut' to Umineko in response to a lot of people being dissatisfied because they were not spoonfed the answers. Ryukishi has intended for people who have thought a lot about the story to be rewarded at the end with a satisfying multi-layered mystery on top of the amazing story in the heart of Umineko. What that means is that if you have a theory about how the murders were carried out - and they do not go against the red truths, they are as valid as the explanations in the manga, as Beatrice's catbox forever remains closed in the game.
I think the only thing that pissed me off was the Golden Witch's Riddle because it requiered geographical knowledge and stuff, which to those that aren't Japanese is literally next to impossible to solve. But everything else wasn't so hard to figure out. Once you learn the culprit's true identity (which becomes clear in Ep 6 and 7), everything becomes easy to explain.
It's not the lack of "spoon feeding" that people were upset about. The fun, at least for me, with murder mysteries is seeing the CHARACTERS figure out the "whodunit" and most importantly the "whydunit" and how they deal with that information. That's part of the reason the "answer arcs" in Higurashi were so satisfying back in the day. Getting the answers in the manga was nice, but the presentation still kind of felt empty and boring until the Sayo "WHY/how they wrote it "confession" " chapters were released. (and the "butterflies" being specifically spelled out was very helpful to me personally.) Another problem was that a lot of the murders depended on various side characters being easily bribed, which for me, was just kinda, meh. (THOUGH. Thinking about it in another way, it showed how bad of an opinion Sayo had towards the other family members/staff to believe bribing would be so easy.) Anyways, sorry for the long reply, the "spoonfed" handwaving always kinda sets me off a bit. I was mad at Umineko for yeaaars until after Higurashi Gou came out. Where I could sort of step back and look at everything as a whole. (and it was also then that I read the later parts of the Umineko manga.)
@@jammer523691aj I'm pretty sure it's still hard even if you're japanese. It requieres a lot of knowledge of the asia culture, and that's just the tip of the iceberg since you need to connect the dots yourself.
Man…I wish I could erase my memories about Umineko and restart it again, fresh mind and all. I made the mistake of taking everything at face value instead of playing detective. At times I did wonder stuff like “hmm true how is this possible” but I never actually delved deep into the many possibilities that could’ve happened. I’m upset, I feel like I would’ve enjoyed it SO much more if I actively participated!! Of course, that’s not to say that I didn’t enjoy it; I was HOOKED during every single second I spent with Umineko. Regardless, truly a masterpiece and insanely well written piece of work. Hats off to Ryukishi07, seriously!
One part of Battler's backstory is he is really into Murder Mystery, and reads a lot. The human behind BEATRICE forms their relationship over Mystery novels. BEATRICE was hoping he would make the connection.
Beatrice was hoping that Battler would figure out why the crimes were committed. Getting Battler to figure out “the how” was never Beatrice’s goal. The Question Arcs explain as to Yasu’s state of mind and conflicts, albeit cloaked in fantasy and hidden behind Yasu’s various identities. A pair of Tumblr-users laid out all those things in the course of rereading episodes 1-4 years before Confession of the Golden Witch made it official.
I mean the mystery is just not that good? Half of them were just lies alone and not clever practical tricks, which makes battler even more stupid than he already was
I would love to play a ttrpg based around the umineko game board mechanics. One person plays the game master and can use red truth and the other plays the detective and uses blue truth. It could be so much fun to just argue murder mystery with people
That format already exists (or, at least, a very similar format)! I’m not sure if this is a popular thing in the west but at least in Japan there’s this thing called 海亀のスープ (sea turtle’s soup), where a prompt is given by a GM and the player can ask a sequence of yes-or-no questions to reach the truth. Many Japanese mystery fan groups have made ttrpgs that allows you to inspect and question stuff, which is pretty close to what you described as well
There's something similar but its more like "I'm thinking of a person you have 12 yes or no questions you can ask before you loose" I haven't really seen anything mystery based much less for groups of more then 2
I've been thinking the exact same thing as well. But it would be either too difficult and take ages to solve rediculous details, be prone to a lot of mistakes from the witch side, and too easy if the mystery side knows all the little tricks.
For me key was "Illusions to illusions chain of illusions can hold back only illusions" I realized that non witch characters can lie I made a mistake of scrutinizing only magic moments and extra characters in the story such as Virgilia, Sakutaro and so on but I never doubted Core characters like Jessica, Shannon and so on BUT AT THAT MOMENT AFTER WIILL SAID THAT I REALIZED that locked room was not locked in the first place and since Battler is the detective someone who told him about the lock lied who was it? Kannon, hence I made my own Blue Truth: "Kannon lies" and "Kannon is the culprit" (i will just put blue statements in marks like that) after that I remembered previous games particularly very first one where Kannon is "killed" since he is the culprit obviously Nanjo who "examined" him lied too meaning "Culprit has accomplices" and who is the most likely accomplice for Kannon? Shannon obviously, I remembered first murder where Hideyoshi prevented George from seeing Shannon most likely because she was not dead and not out of fatherly concern hence he is Shannon's accomplice in first game and on top of it in episode 6 logic error after realizing that "Shannon and Kannon are culprits" I also realized during error solution that "Shannon, Kannon, child from 19 years ago and Beatrice are the same person" since that is the only way to explain Kannon's disappearance from closet he just assumed the identity of Shannon one sentence fixed that overwhelming mystery in a single instant
Yeah, once the puzzle pieces are all laid out, it isn't too hard to put together the bigger picture. We're just never given the right pieces at the right times, and if we are we're lied to about it by the narration.
And in the end, we’re led to believe that in Rokkenjima Prime Sayo didn’t really kill anyone... as the epitaph was solved before the first twilight and EP7 tea party happened, leading to Ange’s world, where the first 2 games are Yasu’s letters and the other 6 games are fabrications of Toya/Ikuko. I like to believe that the Magic ending is the final conclusion, where the truly innocent Yasu is remembered by Battler. This is coherent with the red truth of Battler’s to Ange that the story will have a happy ending, and... also because of the tragedy’s meaning to Ange, Bern’s red stating that it won’t have a happy ending is also true.
Still, Yasu indirectly killed them by providing the guns, and the bomb. They knew what the family was like generally, and the are all in financial trouble. They also wrote Eva overstepping bounds as an accomplice, and wrote Rosa was one. It is also significant Kyrie gets killed almost immediately in both games.
episode 7 tea party did not lead to ange's world, it's just one of many fragments that lead to only Eva's survival. Bernkastel specifically says in episode 8 that although we heard/saw her say in red "that this is all the truth-", Ange actually cut her off mid-sentence bc Bernkastel was gonna say "that this is all the truth, is not necessarily so" (pretty dumb writing lol). Afterwards she even says that this is quite possibly the worst possible fragment that leads to Eva's survival. So basically although the ep7 tea party would lead to another, though very similar, version of Ange's world, the fact that Bernkastel had found it as the worst possible fragment already shows that she went to a different fragment rather than back in time in the same fragment.
Honestly, everyone should've realized Kanon was the culprit when his body didn't appear although Jessica's did (Ep2) in the "locked room". That was when I was like "Wait, what if the magic stuff was all in his head and Kanon simply killed Jessica and ran away?" Then it's really easy to connect Shannon and Kanon (although I had no clue they were the same person) and the rest of the servants as in on it.
It's definitely sus, but the Red Truth of "Kanon was killed in this room" and "Kanon died with Jessica in Jessica's room" is really difficult to overturn even with that in mind.
@@WarudoChaos I just always believed that the witch was covering for someone, and that someone within the 18 had to be doing the crimes. It was just way too sus for Kanon to "die" without a corpse. It had to be him and no one else
It also isn't caught because BEATRICE pushes Kanon killed Jessica just before declaring his death, making it seem like that is what the evil witch wants you to believe. And, of course, Rosa also push this idea, and she is rather ruthless , which makes people want to resist her theory. It is the same with Eva and the reciept in episode 1.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 Thing is you slowly start to realize the adults theories were actually correct. Especially regarding Beatrice actually existing in another mansion on the island
@@irishock Why do you think Natsuhi suspects Shannon of giving the letter to Maria? Kumusawa even points out in in her monologues to the Readers how Natsuhi knows how she shouldn't be to hard on Shannon and Kanon but she feels something about them.
yasu is a meme, shannon can't be kanon as they were in the same room as witnessed by battler, north wind and sun was long game, with love makes you see things that aren't there. Gohdatrice is the solution. Small bombs never denied in red.
*sighs* If you ever see Shannon and Kanon(Also Beatrice while we at it) next to each other and it’s not in the Meta World or Episode 8 then that means it’s bullshit and 1 of them aren’t there.
Watching this makes me realize how perfect Yasuo's plan was and how she was able to manipulate everything to the point where fantasy collided with reality.
Yasu's plans had a lot of things left to chance. Had anyone suspected the dead or didn't trust Nanjo's death assessment, it would have been over. There's why she treats the whole thing as a roulette. Red, she kills everyone and wins. Black, she gets caught by any of the things left to chance biting her in the ass. There's also the zero in her roulette where she's unable to handle the pressure of being a murderer and confesses. At the end we'll never know, considering how off rails things went in the real scenario.
@@neh1234in the real life scenario it prolly went something like this... Much more boring not really that interesting; Yasu didn't manage to kill anyone with her own hands but instead she just gave up and got tired and wanted to kill herself after getting some kind of final closure with Battler and to let him go away from island to not get involved but she still got half of the family killed with the explosion with her, and it was more Kyrie and Rudolf who got their hands dirty... And while Eva ended up killing those two for self defense that prolly explains why she couldn't tell that to Ange or else it would be hella awkward and confusing.
Clues were available from the start. In the first game when maria mentions meeting beatrice, the parents brush it off as probably being shannon playing dressup. Im not sure if ots inconsistent with the rest of the red truths but it implied to me that the adults, but not the reader or cousins, knew about shannon/kannon being the same person the whole time
Now to bookmark this for my fiancee after she finally finishes the manga. She hasn't put much thought into the realistic interpretations, she is just taking everything at face value - I'm excited for when she gets to the later books where it explains some of the crazy stuff lol
@@hendix2200 I was like this too. I never gave the murders much tought as I was just impressed by all the cool magical tricks Beatrice used to make the murders seem impossible!
Even if I am a year later, I have to say this: Umineko murders, their discoveries and the logic and the plan behind them explained with the Danganronpa theme in the background is perfect. Wow
Also, in Episode 4 Gohda and Kumasawa put the ropes around their own necks, which is why their feet touch the floor when they stand up straight. Battler mentions it in his narration. how the rope seems too slack.The first time Battler sees them before he mets BEATRICE they still alive. When "BEATRICE doesn't get the answer she wants,Yasu takes the real key they already obtain from Gohda, and returns to the garden storehouse. Battler is easily avoided since he is running to the chapel to get the mansion key. Because they are in the nooses, it is easy to shoot them.
@@Henry_Red If you look at the tips after they die it says "They themselves put their necks in the nooses. It was a interesting experience to try on occasion." If you take it metaphorically, it means they put themselves in danger, which is what they want you to think. But, if taken literally... Also, "Shannon" isn't dead. Genji and Maria are also probably just about to die.
@@Henry_Red Ahh, but if Battler answers BEATRICE's question correctly, Yasu doesn't need to kill them. Their lives are spared if Battler answer the way she wants. Kumasawa is a mother figure and in the magic narrative, Virgilia. BEATRICE doesn't attack them (her familiars) until Battler fails. So Yasu attacks Kumasawa after that. Yasu is basically willing to let Battler murder them if he figures it out. (see Episode 7 Tea Party). She has to see his answer. It is part of the risk like fantasy Kinzo uses. Leave witnesses until the miracle does or doesn't occur.
@@Henry_Red Also, Yasu leaves risk everywhere. For example, Shannon's "body" in the first episode. Or Natsuhi's gun in the same episode. If she tried to fired even once in front of Battler, it is over.
@@Henry_Red I feel the opposite. Battler's answer becomes really important. George and Jessica failed to notice Yasu properly. Basically, George loves "Shannon" and Jessica thinks she loves "Kanon". However, neither actually love Yasu. So Yasu is betting on Battler now. Remember, until Meta BEATRICE takes over, BEATRICE is happy, and Yasu isn't having a depressive attack. When Yasu isn't upset, they allows for more risk as part of the game. Gohda and Kumusawa are both""observers". People who witnessed "magic". When BEATRICE is still playing the "game" she allows for the chance they will spill the beans. When Battler fails her, she stops playing the "game". Now the risk for the "magic" don't matter, at least on the Board level.
I remember reading a little too hard into the whole thing during the question arcs. Like: I remember the "caged" Beatrice mentioning how she is afraid of the wolves in the forest and then it somehow made a weird click how Eva brought up that Rudolf had major mood swings since he was young and his name literally is a reference to a wolf in germanic (that's what the olf hails from). Then I saw Rudolf head out to find Rosa and Maria and found them dead. I think it was Rosa too (only in the manga I think) who was anxious about one of her brothers and keeping things secret. Didn't drop a name to whether it was Krauss or Rudolf though. I believe it was after Eva and Rosa had THAT talk. Next thing we know, Rosa was dead after Rudolf went out to find them and he with Kyrie had that shootout. Even then, it was odd how much the scenario actually changed the moment Kyrie and Rudolf went out to survive past the first twilight. And Kyrie had this moment with the cigarette, unless I remember it wrong. Back then, it just worked for me. 🤔
I am proud to say I had instinctively sussed out Shannon in episode one and even her motivations. What I lacked and never managed to figure out was the "How" until it was explained to me point blank by looking up a wiki after the fact. I am dissatisfied that the story never goes into detail about the accomplices motivations for each game. For a plot that hinges so strongly on the whydunit, I feel Ryukishi completely dropped the ball there.
Well, as far the core accomplices go: Nanjo - his son -- or his granddaughter I think, I don't remember which -- is suffering from cancer and Nanjo needs the gold for the treatment; his motive is alluded to in the question arcs, and is the least ambiguous; Genji - owes his life to Kinzo, and intended to follow him wherever he may lead him, hence his "furniture" philosophy; feels immense guilt over concealing his daughter's survival and straining any chances of reconciliation between the two, violating his role as "furniture" and betraying Kinzo; thus vowing to serve Sayo -- his new master -- faithfully, no matter her demands; Kumasawa - like Genji, she feels guilty for lying to Sayo about her past and origins, but unlike Genji she is nowhere near as loyal to Kinzo nor does she share Genji's strange philosophy; she is willing to help Sayo as long as it's just a game, as does Nanjo; the Our Confession TIP in Saku seems to suggest Sayo threatens Kumasawa and Nanjo with the destruction of Rokkenjima and the deaths of all therein in some fragments. I think Genji's motive is pretty solid, and lines up well with his characterization in the question arcs; Nanjo's motive is decidedly average, but it's not like he lived on the island together with Kinzo or Sayo for that matter, so it's understandable he wouldn't have much of an attachment; Kumasawa treated Sayo like her own daughter and always stood up for her when she was harassed by Natsuhi and the other adults, so it's understandable she'd take part in a prank to sort out Sayo's complicated feelings about her past. My only real gripe with the motives is the almost radio silence on Genji's past; I understand he owes a debt to Kinzo, but it's still an inadequate explanation for his radical shift in temper and the formation of his furniture philosophy.
I’m seriously in love with your channel and this video has really gotten me back on my goat theory bullshit for a Black Battler theory I seriously love that Umineko has an infinite amount of possible truths inside the catbox and actively encourages you to sail through them in your mind.
....I never knew having Umineko solutions presented DanganRonpa style was something that I desperately needed in my life. But here we are! :groves to Danganronpa beats:
Nice video! I'm late to the party, but I have a few notes. Not major criticisms, you did great work, but I needed to comment. 1. In episode 4, I think you're relying a little too heavily on the manga and mixing up a few things. Most importantly you never mention the sequence of events in which Battler and Yasu meet in front of the mansion, which is really important for determining the order of events given the narrow time window that massacre occurred in. Her sending Battler to the chapel to waste his time is what allowed her to finish setting the scene, and if we're assuming Kyrie died after her phone call Nanjo wasn't killed with her and Krauss. His corpse is next to Shannon's at the well, and also without a stake in a wound due to time constraints, shows he was alive until nearly the very end of the murder spree. Maria was likely killed after Battler met with Beatrice as well. 2. You leave out fantasy interpretations of the murders, and in episode 3's case I think that's a mistake. I think Willard's solution is that we're almost literally shown what happened within the fantasy of Eva's murders, with even less obfusication than normal. Eva-Beatrice knocking Rosa to the ground and not meaning to kill her, for instance. And Hideyoshi yelling at her for killing people and then getting shot by Rudolph's gun. Even the Chiesters, choking Natushi and Krauss with cords then dragging them out of the guesthouse, is basically exactly what Eva did just without mention of the sedative.
It was all Rosa! That is why there are roses everywhere! Joking aside good video was hoping you'd go more in-depth about all the other confusing stuff in Umineko, but I guess that's somewhat a more grand part of the entire WTC series.
Umineko is better read with a friend to play Beatrice as you read, making sure to give you just enough information to keep you thinking, without outright telling you the answers to the mysteries. Sort of like someone guiding you along the path from behind you, letting you come up with your outlandish theories as you read through each chapter of the VN
This is a great video that really sums up the official answers to the first four mysteries. I think one of the beautiful things about Umineko though is coming up with scenarios that work within the red truths as presented but differ about who the mastermind/culprit is because I've found that there is enough wiggle room in the reds that various interpretations are possible and that's the beauty of Rokennojima being a closed cat box, you can do endless speculation to get your little grey cells working! Excellent work though.
The part of ch4 that is kind of baffling to me is why Ryoukishi chose Kyrie and Krauss as accomplices - two people who'd just had their spouses slaughtered, supposedly cooperating with the murderer to acquire gold. It would have made a hell of a lot more sense if it had been Rudolph instead. My more likely theory is that everyone had been alive up until Kyrie's phone call. Perhaps Beatrice executes the whole family after having been disappointed at Battler not remembering her as she returns to the mansion. That would make the tale even more tragic.
It's likely that Kyrie and Krauss were not actually present at the dining room massacre and were just hanging out in another part of the mansion the whole time or something (i.e. Yasu just says: "if you just stay in this area together until the end of the night, you'll get your gold.") Thus, they had zero knowledge that anyone had been killed for real as they were under the false impression that the whole thing was a game for Battler to solve. Also the Rudolf Kyrie duo already got their time in the spotlight in Ep 3 and obviously end up having plenty of screen time down the road, so for the sake of variety, I preferred them being split for Ep 4, which is a disastrous mess of a scenario anyway.
@@WarudoChaos that makes more sense, but it's still a little off as it's implied in the EP7 Tea Party that Kyrie was the one who came up with the phone riddles. Which is also why I would have preferred having Rudolph stay through EP4, since the foreshadowing for EP7 would have hit that much harder.
@@KlemeronYes. Kyrie is the one who suggest Grandfather was testing them, but it is very likely the first doesn't die right away. (BEATRICE intentionally doesn't use the red truth on them). Kyrie probably helps Yasu with her story. Rudolf "dying" earlier foreshadows how Kyrie is the one in control in the tea party. Rudolf is being pulled along by her
@@Klemeron As I understood it, Yasu proposed a murder mystery game for Battler with the aid of, at least, Krauss and Kyrie. The groups (divided into the separate twilights) were likely separated and hidden away in different parts of the mansion. At some point during the "game", Yasu begins taking the groups to the locations they're meant to die in, killing them off to prove the false narrative being woven. Those not taken and killed wouldn't even know the deaths had occurred and would continue with the game as instructed. It's questionable if George and Jessica were in on the game or were simply strung along as well, but personally I think everyone was aware besides Battler to varying degrees, hence why they weren't nearly as freaked out and upset as they were in other scenarios. Kumasawa, Gohda, Jessica, George and Maria were probably the ones who knew the least about the game, with Genji knowing the most (as he knew Yasu's true intentions) and Kyrie and Krauss being second most knowledgeable.
One interesting note when it comes to the manga is that in the second to last chapter of the EP8 adaptation which adapted the magic ending. Battler notes that Beatrice sounds like Shannon, who herself is Sayo Yasuda. This leads into questioning what interactions between Battler and Beatrice are fabricated through unreliable narration, or whether Sayo Yasuda simply failed to manipulate her voice to trick Battler (since everyone on Rokkenjima notes Shannon and Kannon as different people). What are your thoughts on this?
The simple fact that Krauss, Natsuhi, and especially Jessica haven't figured out that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, despite meeting them regularly for 5 years, indicates that Sayo is a really good actor. In fact, it's confirmed that when Beatrice met Maria the first time on the island in Ep7, Maria identified her as a different person not by her appearance, but by her voice. The line Maria used was roughly "I could tell by that voice that she was someone I've never met before". This is a huge clue that Sayo is very good at changing their own voice. Also, remember in Ep2 that Kyrie gets to meet Beatrice for a little while. You'd think that she would tell that "Beatrice" was actually Shannon by her voice, but she doesn't. These clues indicate that Sayo is not only a good actor through attitude and disguise, but by voice as well. The reason why Battler recognizes Shannon in the manga is, just as you said, because Sayo was in distress and forgot to disguise her voice
@@100lovenana Small correction: Yasu/Shannon had been a servant at the mansion for 12 years, while Kanon only "appeared" two years prior the murders. The reason why the main family never suspects anything is not only because Yasu is a good actress, but because Krauss and Natsuhi purposefully kept a distance from the servants, since they considered them Kinzo's spies, and since Shannon was already deeply entrenched in the mansion, they had no reason to suspect that she would be playing another identity on the side. Add in the fact that the old servants were covering for Yasu, and it really doesn't take an acting genius to fly under the radar.
@@Horvath_Gabor I'm pretty sure Kanon appeared more than two years before the murders. The manga makes it seem that he started working as a servant a while before Yasuda solved the riddle (and it's confirmed that she solved the riddle 2 years before the murders)
The dramatic writing reading “THE SIXTH BODY WAS A LIE” and “EVA AND HIDEYOSHI WERE BOUGHT OUT” has convinced me to at least read the EP7 manga lol I love shit like that
Back when I first watched this video I: 1. Searched for that Danganronpa song. 2. Found a Danganronpa Abridged thing. 4. Got recommended a bunch of Danganronpa memes. 5. Decided to Watch Danganronpa 2 playthrough without commentary. 6. Watched Ultra Despair girls 7. Re-watched Danganronpa 3 8. Watch Danganronpa V3 playthrough without commentary witch I just started a few days ago. Thanks to you I've found something to fill the void of Umineko.
TY, as a fan from the Witch Hunt days, I never got a chance to read the manga and I recently found Our Confession VN translation so this explanation was great. Q_Q I wish I had the attention span of my youth to reread Q arcs before watching this but I gotta use all that remains to finally start Ciconia. I remember going to forum post when I finally caught up (around Answer Arc 5 or 6) and theorizing with everybody. The sad fact of the matter is, if you didn't know japanese you kind of avoided those forums because those people were usually ahead of you reading the next arc while everybody else was reading the latest translated one. It was such a great time to be alive tbh. I wish I wasn't stupid in wording logic, but factual logic and all the stuff like that was impossible for me to grasp, ty for this video and having great visuals to follow!
Oh? You used my old solution posts when making this video? Did... did I actually make a lasting impact on the Umineko community? That actually feels pretty nice.
@@DonTollpatschi Um... Yeah? I mean, my original VNDB posts, the source of the "GabeZhul's Solution" site, were written a decade ago, and the notes those solutions are based on are even older, from around late 2011. So yeah, of course they are old. The reason they were remarkable back in the day was because, as far as I know, those were the first attempt at a comprehensive solution for the first four volumes, way before the manga explained everything.
What I love about this visual novel is that they're hinting at the truth, not outright reveal it. Quite romantic. I completely agree with what you've presented and since episode 1 I was really suspicious of Shannon and Kanon, seeing how strange their 'deaths' were. Although because I believed Hideyoshi and Eva were conspiring or were even the murderers, I was really surprised they died right after. Only later did I really understand that pieces on the chessboard are only a means to an end. As long as they help the king win in the end, their deaths mean nothing. In fact, their deaths are also helping the king win.
It is also because they attacked the Illusion of Kinzo by sealing the door with the reciept. Eva also almost made Natsuhi attempt to fired the gun. Kanon gave Natsuhi that gun, and if it doesn't fire (no bullets), Kanon becomes number one suspect. Eva just jeopardized the whole conspiracy.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 While rereading the first episode, I noticed something. Natsuhi knew Kinzo was already dead, right? However, Kinzo becomes the first twilight victim. In the morning, Natsuhi enters Kinzo's room and discovers that his body is missing. She doesn't panic about being exposed(!) Moreover, the magical scene shows Natsuhi imagining a dialogue with Kinzo in which Kinzo talks about the one-winged eagle engraved on her heart. And the most suspicious thing: Natsuhi leaves Kinzo's room encouraged and happy. It was very obvious, even Eva was surprised by Natsuhi's behavior. Moreover, Eva's behavior is no less suspicious. As an accomplice of the culprit, isn't it absurd and ridiculous of her to endanger his exposure? Eva never seemed stupid. But it was because of her "stupidity" that Kanon killed her (allegedly. officially.)
@@lalibella Eva wants Natsuhi to suffer, which is why she "suggests" checking in on Kinzo's study in the first place. She knows Natsuhi cannot bring Kinzo down, and wants to hurt her with it. Kinzois actually gouge the head and kill, which is the fourth Twilight. Eva doesn't care if Battler figures out who Yasu is the way Yasu wants Battler to. Eva believes all the bodies of the first twiight were fake. Hideyoshi isn't as sure, but he listens to his wife. They both are in it for the money. This is why Eva pushes "the servants did it"angle so hard, then suggests a mastermind. But Eva is pushing the idea with no love. If Battler just figures out the servants particularly Shannon or Kanon did it, but not the why, then everything has fallen off the path. So, Eva has to die before something like the 7th tea party happens.
@@lalibella Natsuhi is using the Ilusion of Kinzo to fortify her emotional mask so she can face Eva who is expecting failure. She is telling herself that even though Eva cannot see it, she is better family to Kinzo than Eva. It is a lie, but it makes her happy.
My thoughts on episode 3 lean very strongly towards a hands-off cooperation of sorts between Yasu and Eva. Here's why. The start of episode 3 shows Battler just barely remembering his "sin" with Shannon. This is, as far as we know, the first time this happens, and it gave Yasu hope that he would remember their past, figure out that Yasu is the culprit, and put a stop to them. It's a more promising start than we've seen so far for Yasu to achieve their goals. (As opposed to the end of episode 2, where Yasu lost hope and committed suicide). After the first twilight, things proceed apace as shown, with Eva solving the Epitaph, followed closely by Rosa. This could easily be noticed by Yasu if they were still in the chapel, pretending to be Kanon's corpse. Yasu waited and watched as Eva and Rosa left, with Eva returning to the gold room shortly after, again as shown. Yasu appears in front of Eva, likely dressed as Beatrice now, and as we see in the succession fantasy scene, explains the ins and outs of Eva's new position - this includes knowledge of the bomb, the Head's Ring, and also the key card for the safety deposit box with money set aside to bribe/compensate people, based on how things turned out in this Fragment. However, Eva was not given the PIN immediately - she would be given the PIN at a later time, based on one condition: she not interfere with Yasu's "game" with Battler, which Yasu still had hope for. With this deal, the card would be useless to Eva unless she played along....or at least, did nothing to stop what Yasu had already set in motion. Thus, Eva is effectively bribed, even though she is technically the head (as she surely knows moving the gold around would be difficult regardless of her situation). At this point, Yasu was likely abiding by their rules of allowing the epitaph's solver to legitimately become head, and stop the murders...but then Eva accidentally killed Rosa, followed by Maria. As Yasu was making their way back to the mansion to take up Shannon's guise again (in case anyone came by) they noticed that apparently, Eva was intent on continuing the Epitaph (by tearing apart the two that are close). A coincidence, but one that allowed Yasu to keep "playing" without violating their own rules. Eva, who didn't necessarily want to kill Rosa (at least not in the way it unfolded) despaired at first, and got Hideyoshi to help her cover things up...but as the situation progressed, she became certain she could get away with anything due to the existence of the bomb. Now it was just a matter of getting the PIN... The shootout occurs in the mansion, and drawn by the noise, Yasu finds Rudolf and Kyrie dead, with Hideyoshi not doing so hot. Thus, Yasu stakes them all, finishing off Hideyoshi before going back to the parlor as "Shannon". Much later that evening and with the clock ticking, Yasu calls George to the parlor where they likely have an altercation...after which, Yasu kills George, and since time is running out AND as compensation, Yasu keeps their end of the deal with Eva by putting the PIN on the door...and Eva was clearly on the lookout for this information to be headed her way at some point. By now, it was pretty clear to Yasu that Battler would not be solving the mystery, but since time was almost up, Yasu cleaned up loose ends and maybe tried one last time to get Battler's attention by killing Nanjo. But as we see, Eva kills Battler and survives by going to Kuwadorian...the route to which she could only know if she had heard of it from someone else (Yasu). This satisfies all conditions as far as I recall, with Eva doing the killing beyond the first twilight (with the obvious exceptions of Hideyoshi, George and Nanjo), in order to buy time and cover her tracks, and Yasu doing the staking, as they are still trying to get Battler's attention, and mistakenly thinking Eva intentionally was following the Epitaph. Thus they had a deal between them, but no actual contact after Eva left the gold room the second time.
I am starting to read Umineko, so I dont want to see the video but at the same time I want to see the video... Well, after I finish all episodes I will see this .
willing an identity out of existence allowing the red truth to announce them dead is definitely a trick i don't think i ever thought about, because even knowing that sayo was the culprit, and that shannon and kanon shared a body, i always interpreted "death" as being "the physical body has died" so i was still fucking stumped.
Honestly thank you for the people who adapted Confessions in visual novel because I’m planning on reading this with my friend and it can admittedly be frustrating to have one particularly important explanation in supplementary material. Either way both excited and nervous that they’re indulging me a bit (especially considering the frickin time commitment the VN is with or without the voice mods)
this has been sitting in my watch later playlist for many months now, and now that I have finally finished umineko, I am finally able to watch it. kinda sad that the part 6&7 murders werent included tho
I mean the game pretty much spells out exactly what happened in Episodes 6 and 7 - a video covering the answer arcs would be extremely short and unproductive. Episode 6: It was Erika. Episode 7: You literally watch the entire scenario play out firsthand in the tea party.
Yay! A new video about Umineko! Oh no...I just only finished ep 4 today. WHELP, time to start reading the answer arcs! I can't wait to come back and watch this! Edit: I finished reading Umineko and holy hell that was a fun ride! A lot of the solutions start to make sense once you learn not to trust the testimonies besides Battler's, deny the fantastical illusions, and accept multiple people were in on it. I got into Umineko way back when the anime premiered and was so confused at how the murders were done, I ended up accepting the fantasy illusions as truth. And I didn't want to suspect anyone. Plus the anime made it hard for to try and solve the mystery in the first place. Always wondered about the one closed room where Maria is singing. Shoutout to the helicopter theory way back when!
I had a hard time accepting multiple people were in on it. I wanted there to only be one killer, so that the least amount of people were murderers. It took me up until Willard to actually start considering who the mastermind behind the murders might be, Chapter 7 feels like it's basically screaming the answer at you so you can try to figure it out That chapter 8 mystery though was a banger. I got to fumble my way through the purple speech and catch the perpetrators myself I am pretty proud of that. But, I also understand how easy of a mystery it is since there isn't really any fantasy element there to throw things off and the only ones who can lie are culprits (culprits who must commit murders), so you can't have someone like Nanjo bought off but not have him murder someone I'll admit, I may be stupid
LESGOOOOO somehow all of my murder theories were correct except that in game 3 Eva commited the murders of Krauss and Natsuhi and Yasu didn't. Not that it makes that much of a difference lmao. Ngl I'm proud of myself.
I loved the novel, but my biggest disappointment was the answer to the final riddle of Beato in the 4th twilight: "Who am I?". You are all alone, but I'm still here to kill you and of course I'm not you, etc... A bomb. A f*cking bomb. Back in the days my english wasn't that great(still isn't), so I misread/ignored the "hard to understand" part of the Knox's 4th Decalogue: "It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used. " Because of this, for me it was impossible to be a bomb as an answer, as it was forbidden scientific devices to be used, meanwhile the rule only excluded "hard to understand scientific devices" and a bomb is pretty simple device. So lackluster.
A bomb makes sense. Its stated in episode 3 and 4 somewhere that Rokkenjima was a military basis a lot of time ago. Also from Ange's narration when she visits Rokkenjima in episode 4, she says something like "i can't use this path". So that is a hint that it may be because of a bomb. Also the corpses were not found, just Maria's mouth(? Thats another hint. Literally a friend of mine who finished episode 4 guessed it was a bomb this because of all of these hints, it wasnt hard and there is enough foreshadowing so it doesnt break any rule.
@@giulia8068 Even the timer of the clock is hinted. LAMBDADELTA references BEATRICE arms moving like a clock to the 24:00 position then dropping right before she states the riddle. Also explosives can be really simple, and follow the risk Kinzo's "magic" is based on.
Okay, it helped me more to see the manga and an interview with the author. But yes... "it's not magic" is still not the answer. The answer is: A. Sorry. If as they say everything told on the magic side is "fake" and you can't trust what "beatrice" says. It is the same on the "real" side. Because if you believe in that just because you were given a proof, you are not thinking, you are believing in the proof/illusion that someone gave you. So there are two things: The only way to "beat" the witch is, effectively and from the beginning, not to fight, because there is nothing to confront (Clearly; not to read the game). But that, wouldn't be fun, people come to be fooled by the witch and that's why they keep reading, there enters the second way to "win" which is to think, there is never a real answer of the murders apart from the manga, and the same author said that if you had other answers that didn't contradict the truths in red, they are also valid, so that... Hisoka using Bungee Gum is canon. It's not magic. It's Nen.
Some things I still didn't understand. 1) In ep 2, why did Shannon kill (like for real) herself? It's contradictory to all her other plans where she planned to still monitor Battler till the very end. 2) In ep3, how did Eva find and stick the stakes into the bodies of her victims? There has to be some collaboration between Yasu right? 3) In ep 3, how did Eva survive the explosion? While she did find the gold, unless she was told about the explosive device, there was no reason for her to get to safety (or even have the confidence to get away with the murders). So, once again, was she collaborating with Yasu?
None of these have a crystal clear explanation. There's no reason given for why Yasu offed herself early in Episode 2, other than just to spice things up. For Episode 3, the degree of collaboration between Eva and Yasu is horrendously vague. It ranges from no collaboration at all, to the two being in lockstep until George's death, which can be reasonably assumed to be the point where their alliance ends as Eva would never allow for George to be killed.
1. Yasu was originally just going to kill themselves without the murder mystery, so if Battler doesn't seem to be solving who they are, they kill themselves. They also do it if they reveal themselves to George because they can't stand to hear George's love for "Shannon" and her future with him. "She"can't give him children, andd they are related by blood. Basically, they things "she" would be married to him for are false. 2. Yasu is spying on the adults with the help of Nanjo, Natsuhi, and Krauss. They watched Eva/Hideyoshi/Rudolf/ Kyrie shoot at each other, then they staked Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie after Eva goes to get Nanjo. That is why Eva thinks Hideyoshi "was still alive" when she gets back to the guesthouse. 3. It is very likely Yasu told Nanjo through the phone to tell Eva about the tunnel and the bomb right after she kills George. That is when she puts the pin up on the door. The pin is money for the surviving relatives as payment for killing their family. Yasu is paying Eva for killing George when she shouldn''t have. (because she solved the riddle).
@@WarudoChaos As I noted in my old solution posts, the most obvious reason why Yasu would off herself in EP2 is that, just before that, Battler has a nervous breakdown and gives up trying to solve the mystery. She was going to kill herself along with the family either way (she had already rigged up the island to blow up, and even in the "canonical" ending leading to Ange's story, she still commits suicide even after Battler finds her), in these scenarios she just does so early because she finds no reason to continue with the murder mystery charade.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 how would Eva kill George when his murder happened around the same time as the murders in the guesthouse? Aren't all the murders in the 9th twilight -- excluding Battler's -- committed by Yasu? The fantasy scenes frame EVA as the culprit, but she doesn't kill George directly; the Chiester sisters do it at her command i.e. a Winchester did him in - that's all we are actually being told. EVA is also shown killing Nanjo despite it being impossible for Eva, so clearly we should take those fantasy scenes with a grain of salt. The fact that Nanjo -- Yasu's accomplice -- was the only one who could have locked the window that George left the guesthouse through at least shows Yasu had planned to lure him into the parlor.
Kanon could have survived if he hadn’t removed the stake because it looked like it was holding an artery together. Don’t do it! Just go to the hospital let them professionally assess it first if not holding anything vital can medically removing. If it has something vital being held together by the impaling instrument including stakes or knives we would leave it in the body because it’s saving your life just clean the area for to prevent infection if external like a knife and cut off the part that are not connected to the body. If internal flood the patient with antibiotics for the same reason. Many people have survived with bullets to pieces of knives inside them and have lived to old age. 😊
@@WarudoChaos Funny thing about that, because Junko is also the Ultimate Analysis, she is aware of the tropes of the world she is it.. Great Exposition with a side of Despair. "Cuz it's Game".
Had this vid on my watch later playlist for a couple months now. Ever since I started EP4, I had your vid in the back of mind taunting me like a really expensive christmas gift you really want but you know you gotta wait a while before you can get it. And like a kid who just woke up on christmas morning, the second I finished the VN I came staright here lol.
I have never played or read Umineko before but watching Rose Matters play Umineko, and watching this video afterwards, a lot of things make loads of more sense. Also can we all agree that Yasu is bat shit crazy
Wait until Episode 7 (and perhaps Confession of the Golden Witch), their motivation is a lot more nuanced than being "crazy". Even the most horrific monsters of the story (*cough* Kinzo) have reasons for doing what they did and learning those reasons is part of the brilliance of this VN! I do hope you enjoy the rest.
yeah no, yasu was bonkers, or rather, the yasu ryukishi came up with is bonkers. the whole backstory swings between gross and "implausible to levels beyond higurashi's Home Alone ending." rosatrice guy was off, but i can't blame him for wanting something that made more sense than yasu.
I just finish Umineko VN in 10 july of 2021 (I don't know what time zone who reads this will be, so I didn't say "yesterday"). Come to see this video to fully understand how the murders happened. In my own investigation i think i solve 42% of the mystery at best, never considered the multiple personalities thing. My theory was that Shannon and Kanon was the culprid because the crimes could not happen with one single person and the furniture complex and since they are the most close to Kinzo, it makes sense that they know a lot about the occult. My theory was that Shannon and Kanon are occult believers thats why they conducted the ritual because they belive that they would become "humans" that way. But the real truth was so.... fucked up? Come on, i don't saying that doesn't make sense but is weird. A fucking bomb that explodes the whole Island? No one ever gets suspicious? Nanjo and Kumasawa know they truth and even then they don't suspect of the possibility of being murdered? Ok, Yasu can make any accomplice h/she wants but they have to be scare after seen the murders come on, no criminal would trust another criminal (that's why they are criminals haha). My experience with Umineko was one of the best a have for a long time and i will remember for a even long time. I am a lazy dumb person, i will not say that the VN changes my life but i lern something that i can carry on, and i will do my best to continue that way.
Getting this video in my recommended a while ago inspired me to read Umineko. Now I’m back to watch it after finishing it (the vn) today. :) it truly was an experience.
honestly while reading i haven't even tried to solve anything and continued on because idk Beatrice is cute genuinely didn't understand or care about whole mystery/detective debate either because it never felt important at all happens ig
then what’s the point in reading something you don’t understand at all? sorry but that’s a you problem. The whole entire point of umineko is a detective psychological mystery in which you yourself try to attempt to solve. If you can’t comprehend any of that then I suggest reading something else
You re-awoken the belief I had when I came across the series at the tender age of seventeen: *YASU DID IT! YASU IS THE CULPRIT!!!* Also, I love how you used the climax ost from the Danganronpa series to reveal what actually happened.
Yeah funny meme. Small bombs. But hey defense attorneys have made pretty wild accusations and after all that's what battler's role is right - a defense attorney, not a prosecutor?
22:28 - red truth - _Shannon and Kanon are dead, no suicides, no hiding people_ My OBJECTION: no, Yasu can't be there due to these rules. One solution is possible though: Shanon and Kanon fed each other small bombs (which killed each other), after which they were shot in the head with booby-trapped guns, adding "appearance of fatal gunshot wounds" (but not an actual kill).
. It is a more red heavy version of the lock to the chapel in Episode 2. It is never stated in red the chapel was locked, or there was a letter, or a knock. The red only discusses if it was locked this is how it would be, or that nobody would misintrept the knock. For the letter, the red basicallly states no one could have place the letter, but if there is no letter to place, well..
I have a question about Ep 3 first twilight, that confused me when I re-read it some weeks ago How did Shannon go to the Chapel and close it from the inside if the chapel key was inside the boiler room? My only idea is that in this game the rule of Ep 2 for which the Chapel can be opened only with the chapel key doesn't apply (in fact it isn't stated in red this time around), and it can be opened also with the servants master keys
You don't need a key to lock the vast majority of doors from the inside. Think about the doors you come across in your life - the lock is only external. On the inside is either a thumbturn lever or push button to close the latch. It's never stated in Red anywhere that any of the doors need keys to be locked manually from the inside. Additionally, Confessions of the Golden Witch in the manga explicitly states verbatim that Yasu locks the chapel door from the inside for that particular murder. The chapel door is left open all night and morning - Yasu leaves the chapel key next to Kinzo, but the chapel door has been left unlocked before Yasu enters as Kanon
@@WarudoChaos ok now makes sense, since the chapel door is way more sophisticated by classic doors makes sense it can be closed by the inside without a key doors of my house still needs a key to be locked from the inside, as most of the doors I encountered, but thinking about it I came across some doors which could be locked from the inside, like bathroom doors in public places
@@WarudoChaos but in ep3 it was stated in Red "Furthermore, all of the doors and windows on the six rooms are normal. No device exists which can lock them without a key, such as an auto-lock."
A thumbturn lever or push-button s not a "device", it's just a mechanical implement. Episode 3 manga shows Nanjo using a thumbturn to lock a window, which proves that these implements fall outside of that Red Truth. It would be dumb to assume that a key would be require to lock every single door and window from the inside.
I mean...ep 8 explains everything. The "question arc" solutions are still under the "fantasy" route, none of those happened in the actual mass murders, thats why beatrice/shannon/kannon stuff looks shady when you try to think how it can actually work. but those question arcs are still a fantasy stories on their own, so beatrice/shannon/kannon works quite well within the chapters itself. don't know what is so hard to understand here
@@WarudoChaos eh I meant it like why this shannon/kannon/beatrice works, not necessarily because this video is wrong. Many people are confused and they are questioning things like "How Yasu can be 3 ppl at the same time and those murders are carried anyway". (like they think the question arc answers are a form of non-fiction solution) Well it works in a way that the final chapter explained. Its fiction, and thats the answer, and the non-fiction answer is already given to us anyway, so there is nothing wrong about Sayo and her "personalities"
@@Dezsr Interesting one is probably EP3 where Battler had the chance to *click* realize something is wrong because blind Jessica is supposed to be in the parlor, Beatrice protected the parlor door and revealed her heart, and Battler and Eva went to parlor where she shot him after he accused her she is the culprit.🤫
Seeing most rewatched parts of this video made me realise that Im not the only one who was kinda confused about how in twilights 4-6 of ep. 2 Shannon managed to hid the gun. I guess force of recoil helping makes sense
19:46 I feel vindicated, it always bothered me that the characters never think about the door locking from the inside. The mansion isn't old, it's from the 50s, and doors in the 50s had that damned feature.
And what about the red truth: "Everyone at the parlor acknowledged the presence of Kinzo" at episode 4, first twilight? I mean he is dead so maybe it was his corpse?
It literally just means everyone was a co-conspirator. I realize this answer is borderline lame/unsatisfying, but that applies to most of the murders in Episode 4.
Actually Battler answer is correct. Everyone acknowledges new "Kinzo". As mentioned, kinzo name is passed to new head. Read truth doesn't say "ushiromiya knizo" it just says kinzo. And yes, Shannon appeared and explained that she is new head and she is the one who appeared as Kinzo. Telling them about gold, her origin, the head ring etc she is able to convince everyone that SHE IS NEW HEAD, NEW KINZO. Everyone acknowledges that. But after that she massacred them all.
@@gamerx1133 the 6th game states that each person's name can only be used by that person; this annuls Battler's inheritance theory. Furthermore, the solution isn't foreshadowed anywhere, and there is no evidence that Kinzo's name is inherited by the next head.
I haven't read the vn or the manga but I just wanted to see how the murders were explained and it makes a shit tone of sense it's crazy how ppl say the murder were bs and unsolvable 😂😂
To be fair a LOT of these murders were borderline unsolvable. They make sense in hindsight but when approaching it from as a fairplay mystery, it takes a an inordinate amount of guesswork to piece together the solutions due to the puzzles arguably abusing unreliable narration.
An extra note for chapter 3 endgame is how Sayo made a final locked room murder. Right before Nanjo is killed by "Eva Beatrice" Jessica, still blinded, was guided to the murder room by Sayo as Kanon, so then she would serve as an indirect accomplice to their cloosed room mystery, as Jessica taught Kanon was a ghost and that only she and Nanjo were in that room. So Sayo, as Kanon, acted under the name of Eva Beatrice (like they did with Kinzo in Chapter 4 dinner massacre) to kill Nanjo, leaving Jessica as an only possible culprit thus as she was blinded, she couldn't have killed Nanjo and neither could testifed he was killed by another person, as only Battler and Eva remained alive.
UGH THANK YOU FOR THIS. i've always been so interested in this series but i'm too stupid to understand how they all keep dying repeatedly when they already died 💀
