Umpiring Appeal Plays - NFHS Baseball 

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​@UmpireClassroom Do you guys have a video that explains why throwing to a base and getting a runner out on a failed tag up is not a force out? And since it is not a force out that means that should any runner that crosses the plate in the meantime would have their run(s) count. I appreciate it thanks.

Hope they help and have a great season! Be sure to stay tuned for more videos all season!

If your in the Vegas area can you tell Phil S. that Tommy from NJ says hello

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U3 could ask for clarification, but F5 could have also clarified and failed to do so. The rule book puts the responsibility on the defense to make an appeal attempt known. They didn’t make it clear enough to U3. The only thing that matters is what U3 THINKS you are appealing.

@@UmpireClassroom I think what's interesting here is that we as umpires are using judgement to implement the rules but this is an instance where judgement could vary from umpire to umpire. I would have judged the appeal was obviously an appeal to R2 and R3 because he touched the base and the runner. I do not need to ask to clarify what F5's intent to appeal was because his absolute actions demonstrated it. Tagging the runner was an appeal to R3 and touching third base was a direct appeal to R2 (who ran home); if F5 believed touching the base was the act of the appeal then the team would have tagged second base to appeal R3, but that wasn't what they demonstrated. Overall, I'm new to umpiring and how I would interpret/judge the play/ Love these videos! Thanks for taking the time to produce them as well as respond to comments.

I'm interested in exactly thus because you're correct He tagged the runner a split second before touching the base. I have it 8n my own mind that the run wouldn't have counted if he touched the base first & then tagged the runner. I think a difference is live ball/dead ball, & that the ball becomes dead after the 3rd out, Which was the tag, Forcing the runner that crossed the plate to only be called out on a "dead ball appeal." Not certain, but would love to be certain of the details here.

​@@craigtaylor6780 To be honest, I don't believe the order matters here in the Nationals example. Let's say that, for the sake of your example, the umpire accepts touching the base and tagging the runner as appeals on R3 and R2. Let's just assume that. Now, it doesn't really matter which is the third out and fourth out, because in OBR (and maybe NHFS but I'm not as good with those rules) the defense gets the most advantageous third out... or whatever makes the situation best for them. That would, of course, be recording R3 as the third out to take away the time play. However, I personally agree with the umpire in the MLB Nationals example. I think most ball players and many coaches don't really know that what we often call "doubling off" a runner on a caught ball is technically an appeal for leaving the bag early. It isn't recording a tag out or force out like other parts of the rules. It's something we learn very young as to how to get the runner out, but we never stop to think why the runner is out. It's because we are technically appealing a violation of the "leaving the bag too early" rule. It's just that we all accept plain as day that when you are trying to double the runner off with a speedy throw and either a tag or touched base with the ball, that obviously you are appealing. It becomes so rote, and no one ever breaks this down, so here we have pro ballplayers who get the ball, tag the runner on third and say "all right, three outs, let's head in". I honestly don't think they were clear, or even understood, this was a fourth out scenario and they needed to record a fourth out on R3 to remove the ability for that runner to score on a time play. That's what I think anyways... always curious what others think.

Took me a minute to understand. The question was assuming there is another inning or half inning to be played, but yes, if this were the end of the game, they could appeal until the umpires leave the field.

@@UmpireClassroom Awesome, thanks for the clarification! That was my understanding during the original discussion, but then I was confused during that question and afraid I'd mis-understood.

Nationals recorded out “ 3 by tagging R-2 while he was standing on third base. The Nats appealed R-2 left 2nd base early. Having three outs the Nats infielders walked across the foul line to their dugout, which ended their opportunity to appeal R-3 left early and illegally. The appeal on R-3 if done legally would have been the fourth out of the half inning, and would have superseded out #3 and negated the run he scored. Because there was no legal appeal of R-3 the run scored.

Not necessarily. Especially if you think they are going to ask. Sometimes, the speedy ask makes it easier for your partner.

In pro ball and also here at the HS level, ALWAYS with 2 strikes on the batter, if I think the catcher may have dropped a 3rd strike with a swing and 1st base unoccupied or with 2 outs and 1st base occupied, I ALWAYS GO TO MY PARTNER FOR WHAT HE MAY HAVE! I want to give the catcher all the time I can to react by putting the batter/runner out or anyone else he deems appropriate......

I tend to ask automatically if it's close enough that I know the defense is going to appeal, AND the open-side guy is on the wing. If the guy I'm going to ask is inside somewhere, then I'm not asking unless the defense makes me. The other reason to automatically and quickly ask of is whenever you need a fast answer: potential uncaught 3rd strike, and check swing on a 3-2 pitch out of the zone with runner(s) advancing. in either case, it's acceptable and possibly even desired for the base umpire to voluntarily make a call even before being asked - but a crew ought to pre-game this if they don't work together regularly

All infielders and the pitcher!

@@UmpireClassroom there are three outfielders and six infielders. The pitcher is the infielder given the responsibility to deliver pitches to the batter.

@@UmpireClassroom your videos are extremely valuable. I like the new format of adding M.L.B. game video.

If I'm remembering that play correctly, they attempted to, but, under MLB rules (which, again, are different here from the high school rules) it was not allowed.

They didn't. Because in OBR (MLB), they do NOT have the exception for if the play is caused by the offense or defense. So they could not appeal the left early.

I thought so. I was confused because the Astros initiated that play. That was very smart on their side because they apparently knew the rule whereas the Diamondbacks either didn't or simply panicked....

@@nnsqutr Thank You!!!

@@UmpireClassroom at about 4:12 you mention that other levels do not have this exception. true enough for OBR, but NCAA does have this exception as well: NCAA 8-6-b-4: _If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose its right to appeal._

You are thinking of the OBR rule, however, the NFHS rules are very different when it comes to appeals.

@@UmpireClassroom OK - so in situation # 5 under NFHS rules - the ball must be put back in play correct? Thanks so much!

Incorrect. In NFHS rules, a verbal appeal can made only during a dead ball.

No. And they also do not have the exception for a play that is initiated by the offense. So in the Houston play, they were no longer allowed to appeal at that level.

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As an umpire, how would you effectively tell a coach that they’ve lost the ability to appeal a play? Is “you can’t appeal that” sufficient?

@@markensign4010 just something along the lines of "Sorry it's too late to appeal."