damn dude, psychedelics do this for me and i thought i came up with that which you commented, ideas are like butterflies, you can find the same one that have already been found
I can entertain an idea and then not accept it. Exactly. I can think about if god were real and see how it doesn’t line up, and therefore not accept it.
@@froedlmetallmann4643 how is that love at all? Myself being a parent, I could never imagine DEMANDING love and worshipping from my children and punishing them for not loving me a correct way. Thats what psychopaths do maybe, not loving parents.
It's so nice to hear a caller who is (at least somewhat) religious who calls out of genuine intellectual interest instead of calling to spew the same tired arguments for the umpteenth time. Wherever you end up on the question of theism, Arnie, I hope you end up happy.
I really enjoyed hearing Dave's response. If there is no intercessory god then so what, if this god exists and is messing with reality, then why is it indistinguishable from random chance?
This is perhaps one of the best callers I have heard. He was sincere with his beliefs and not afraid to express his confusion on his beliefs. Which we all experienced.
I love what Dave says near the 14min mark, "whose voice am I hearing? Is it God giving me this thought or the devil, Satan? Or is it just me?" And the kicker is..one can never know
"Religion is a phase a species goes through when it evolves enough intelligence to ask profound questions but not enough to answer them." - Bill Flavell
hi, dave. i really loved how you spoke about having to discern between whether it was god, the devil or your own flesh giving you those thoughts. that shit was a nightmare. hope you’re doing well, man.
got a story for you -- four years ago, at 60 years old, my husband and I lost our house and were homeless for a few weeks, and when we went thru this my husband reached for his bible and has been reading it fervently ever since. (As a side note, I must tell you that the churches he went to for help gave us NOTHING but a copy of the bible.) At that time I said that if god actually answered his prayers and gave us this money he was asking for, that would be proof and make me believe, because I really never believed in god, although raised catholic. Anyway, about a year later we inherited a sizeable amount of money. So I decided it must be true, and that I needed to believe in god. That's when I really started thinking about it logically. And let's just say I didn't hold this belief very long. I realized pretty quick that this definately was not proof of any kind. It might be the most unlikely thing I have ever heard of happening to anyone I know, but an answer from god, not so much. But it still troubled me a little until I remembered that I used to play that game all the time when I was a kid -- if I win this game of solitaire it means I will find a husband and get married, if this happens, it means I will be happy, etc. My own version of ouija board kinda. Just because this little game worked once, doesn't mean anything. If you get the time from a broken clock it will be right twice a day. Doesn't mean it's not broken.
I do the exact same thing! “If I get this toilet roll in the basket, then everything is ok at work” *or insert another random outcome*. It’s completely illogical and doesn’t dictate how my day goes, but it’s a game I play too. I’m glad (and amused) that I’m not alone in this 😉
Also a definitive sign for you would be that you and everyone you love,respect,admire wouldn't die and everyone you don't know wouldn't suffer.thatd be a sign that a benevolent creator exists.
It takes a brave, intellectually honest person to look at evidence contradictive to his or her beliefs. To change those beliefs, based on reality...tough work.
@@magicalchemicaldaddy3919 Wouldn't you have to prove your imaginary friend's existence before you make the outrageous claim that this being created us. Just saying so, is not evidence.
@Frances Snowflake Modern theism is irrational, in the face of overwhelming and conflicting data contradicting it's claims. And it is all effortlessly incidental. Theists consistently prove themselves to be irrational in regards to their religious beliefs. Their original claims (which contradict each other's the world over) guarantees this becoming an unavoidable fact.
The funniest caller so far was the guy that said god was talking to him. Matt asked how? The caller said while he was eating a bowl of cereal - lol. That is so typical of religious people. I can't eat a bowl of cereal now and not look for signs god is trying to communicate with me :).
@@magicalchemicaldaddy3919 Instead of saying that everyone has a god. Why haven't you provided evidence for it already. Every claim about a god has and always, and will be torn completely apart.
I like Arnie. Seems like a clear minded nice guy. Dave's point about fatherhood is so on point. If you want your children to do well in life, you have to take an active interest in their lives. You can't play a game with them.
All religions have caused so much misery in this world, especially when it takes a superior form defining its self the only one. The colonial powers used religion along with weapons to show their superiority. Anyway, the word god is really a metaphor.
If I called the show, my question would be about the motive for skepticism. Specifically, why don’t you express that skepticism is the fallout of maturity or perhaps the desire for wisdom or perhaps that “belief” is a form of escape.
Ever seen X-MEN Apocalypse? When the Egyptian god woke up on the 21st century, his first goal was to seek out professor X in order to use his power to communicate with everyone on earth and announce his presence. Get my point?
Also, on the "Karate Kid" analogy: Daniel DID question the lessons, and he eventually got fed up with Mr Miyagi not explaining himself and was about to quit. THEN, Mr Miyagi actually DID explain himself.
MATT REMOVED HIS THUMB! WTF?? THATS A MIRACLE RIGHT THERE! Also if my cat jumped on the table and said "hey u shld go to church." N then it never said another word again....Id go to church every day...course i wldnt tell ppl y...bt Id go
I'd say the problem with asking for some evidence is that the tri-omni loving God that wants a relationship should result in us being surrounded with massive quantities of clear evidence. Not weak look at the trees examples. Some evidence would be a start, but demonstrating the typically described Christian God would need a lot more in order to demonstrate the qualities they claim.
I believe it would serve people well if they understood what the meaning of evidence is. You may not agree with the evidence but that doesn't equate with it not being evidence. evidence can be testimony it can be eyewitness it could be logical thinking. Not all evidence is based on a physical objective reality. Atheism is a perfect example of being a position without evidence. Atheism is a disbelief and a disbelief requires no evidence it simply requires an inability or unwillingness to accept something as true, and this and this of course is regardless of evidence. To be an atheist it requires no evidence. But to believe in God requires evidence because believing something requires evidence. that doesn't mean the evidence for that belief is good or bad but it does exist. Two people can share the same evidence and come to different conclusions one can believe the evidence or one might not but if you don't believe the evidence you could say it's bad evidence but you would be wrong to claim it doesn't exist because you don't believe it justifies believing. Atheist have asked me why I believe in God I then provide them with evidence to why I believe in God I can't tell you how many times after giving them the evidence they asked me to supply for why I believe in God they then respond in the very next reply and tell me I made a claim that I believe in God and didn't Supply any evidence. what a ridiculous Untrue response. they should have responded and said they don't believe the evidence I supplied is sufficient enough for them personally to justify a belief . But then again that response would have been disingenuous because again atheism is a disbelief there's no amount of evidence that could ever exist that would make someone believe something their unwilling or unable to accept. This is why providing evidence to someone i n a state of disbelief is nonsensical. This is why I prefer to talk about the superiority of Christianity even as a philosophy especially compared to atheism. Also atheist please learn what the burden of proof is. burden of proof is to the claim, unless I claim I could prove God to your satisfaction it's not my burden of proof to do so. if I claim I believe in God my burden of proof is justifying my belief in God, not to justify whether or not anyone else would believe it it's only to justify my believing it. My burden of proof cannot be more than my claim. Also if an atheist makes a claim outside of atheism for example claims that God doesn't exist then the burden of proof is on you to prove your c l a i m. Being atheist doesn't resolve you of any claim you make outside of atheism Remember burden of proof it's to the claim.
@@sonja4164 of course I am, do you really have an argument against everything I said or are you just trying to undermine what I sad by asking such a question. I guess we will see if you respond with a logical argument. Also if you're going to argue with the meaning of atheism, please don't waste your time if your going to tell me what you feel atheism is. I could Supply defined Meanings as well as physical evidence of atheism being a disbelief an unwillingness or inability to accept God. but feel free to argue with anything or everything I said but again I can't argue against your feelings.
Already a Theist -------looks at the God concept------still believes in God. Gullible person--------looks at the God concept------believes in God. Sceptic/critical thinker----looks at the God concept------WTF!
"Atheists approach it saying "Given there is no god, what is the best explanation." You know somebody is really ignorant when they start their "argument" by lying about atheists. :/ Lying about atheists will never help you build a good argument.
Adding to the Karaket Kid example: Mr. Miyagi had also demonstrated to be at least competent. So God needs to first show that he's real and then prove that he knows what he's talking about before he's on Miyagi's level.
There seems to be little, or no, evidence that Jesus Christ lived. What about St Paul, aka Saul of Tarsus? He was a Roman Citizen in command of Roman soldiers. After his Conversion he roamed the eastern Med, visiting many Cities and Churches, finally ending up in Rome. Is there any non-biblical evidence for anything in Paul's life.
Mr Miyagi told daniel he would teach him Karate after PROVING he could kick some azz. He didn't just leave a book of vague commands and inconsistent stories lying around
His first statement should have been corrected. The atheist says: "being there is no god, what's the explanation?" The theist says: "God exists and that's the explanation."
What would convince an atheist there is a god? Such a lame question, time to put the cards on the table and ask the right stuff, what could make religious people once and for all accept the world for what it is, and when are they going to include reason and logic in their mindset?
The caller compared (at 1:10) an atheist's claim that "given there is no god" to a theist's claim that "given there is a god". That is not what Dave and/or Matt is claiming.
How about grow missing limbs back? Do that first, then, I'll look at how that happened. Until then, what would it take for you to NOT believe? Yeah, didn't think you'd answer.
God, according to the bible stories, used to be able to appear to people and speak to them quite clearly and concisely. Nowadays he speaks to us by having his son appear on a piece of toast...
WTF? Matt removed his finger!!!!! In all seriousness, I have witnessed miraculous things. When my wife was putting me though college, in the last semester, she was in a head on collision. I hadn't graduated, she had just given birth to our second child, and she was in the ICU for months. By some miracle, she received full salary for the entire year before someone in accounting caught the error. This was just enough for me to graduate. That was the first miracle. (They did politely asked if maybe they could have the excess back but never pursued it.) Years later, she was to have a second ankle surgery, a fusion of the bones as her ankle was collapsing. I found a house to rent that was down the street from the grammar school. This allowed me to go to work, an hour's commute away, the wife to be laid up at home (another year recovery, unable to walk), and my son could walk to and from kindergarten which was all of two blocks away. When it came time to register my son for kindergarten, I was informed that there was a wait list. I had never heard of such a thing and had assumed that being in the district, a couple blocks of way was sufficient. It wasn't so I went down to the school to plead my case to the school principle. (My wife made phone calls but going to meet with someone was out of the question.)e I left, disappointed, as the waiting list procedure was firm. A few weeks later, a spot opened up. That was the second miracle. Do they prove God?
As Matt has said many times, an omnisient, omnipotent god would know what it would take to convince us of his existence and whats more would make it happen. So far for over 2000 years, crickets……
I dont think a real god could demonstrate they are different from the universe's best magician. If my senses can be deceived then the best deceiver can make see them do all things a god can.
Whether it’s a cunning magician or a God, if it clearly and repeatedly demonstrated itself to us I’d at least be able to acknowledge that there’s an intelligent being of some kind that wants to communicate with us. Which still is a lot further towards “truth” than any theistic tradition has gotten.
@@magicalchemicaldaddy3919 i see nothing in this universe that necessitates a god. Matter of fact the universe looks like either a god doesnt exist or is the worst designer ever.
@@TestMeatDollSteak so you really dont care about the truth then? If the universe has a creator or some being can just make you think they created it you'd just consider them the same? Because that is the problem with now. We have all these religions trying to pretend like they are actually real and some people fall for it. And they start to push religion into politics and education and everywhere else in your life. All because they see magician pretending to be a god.
@@jeffparent2159 - I said I’d “acknowledge that there’s an intelligent being of some kind that wants to communicate with us”. Not that I’d necessarily worship it as a deity, love it, or convert to a religion for it. I agree with Dillahunty that, if God exists and has the Omni properties generally ascribed to him by theists, then he should know what would convince me and should be able to deliver it. But, whereas Matt just says he has no idea what might convince him, I’ve often pondered that there could be some sorts of scenarios might move me to suspend my disbelief. If the entity repeatedly appeared to everyone on Earth simultaneously and had one on one conversations with us in our own languages, answered our questions unambiguously such that we all converge and agree upon a singular understanding of who he is and what he wants/expects from us, then we could at least all agree that this being exists even if we don’t all agree to call him “God”, for example. If he demonstrated and explained how he created the universe in a way that is scientifically testable, repeatable, etc, that would lend credibility to the notion that he created our universe. Or is at least capable of it. Perhaps, if every person who ever lived were born with the same first hand eye witness memory of Jesus’s birth, life, death, and resurrection, that might be compelling evidence that those are real events that are of some importance to us. Any number of things would be more compelling from a naturalistic standpoint than what we’ve got now.
Not that they've clarified, even engaging with an atheist would be like showing weakness to their congregation. You could maybe get a televangelist to appear of you promise to buy them a third yacht
Seeing an actual miracle, something personal that couldn’t possibly be a set up or magic trick would go a long way to believing. Logically, I should be more skeptical then that. But I prayed & searched and searched & prayed to find god for decades and no prayers were answered and nothing remotely supernatural ever happened. It would be a good place to start at least.
Why would God create a world where children suffer from hunger and die from not having clean water ? .... seriously if he made this he's the devil not God
I've tried every concievable angle to give God the benefit of the doubt and He ,She or, It fails the test time and again! If the message is so simple, spell it out in simple terms...why bother with the crytptic?
For over a year now I have deeply and earnestly asked God to reveal himself to me just as scripture said he did to all of the OT and NT church leaders. I still have yet to see him. Am I not as important as one of his pioneers in his religion? His direct, one on one physical appearances to those in scripture only seem to be centered around "leaders" of the religious movement of the time. All through history it seems he has only spoken or appeared to great leaders and church fathers... I am waiting. The more time that passes without his care for the human race the more I'm convinced he does not exist...
Tell me what you god can do. What are its specifications? We’ll develop a test plan, then test procedures. Run the tests 100 times and see what happens.
Worth noticing the evidence for theism is not even enough for the theists to consistently pick one God over the others. No mighty God can win, consistently, against the god stories we told and concoct. Is not that an amazing miracle from no God?
I don't think that's a very good argument from Matt. If a god exists, it's unlikely time would be an issue. So it wouldn't really be a choice between answering a dumb prayer like that or saving children. He can just not want to save those kids. The latter invisible mister Miyagi argument was much much better
Believing in God is a bit like being in a class classroom. A group of people believing in a god is a bit like many pupils living in a classroom made of one way glass with no teacher present. There is talk of ‘the teacher’ and their powers and rules but no evidence except what the pupils create for themselves. The story may have been made up on the spot by a pupil who is still in the classroom due to a lack of understanding or perhaps a previous pupil who for some reason left the class never to return. The door to the classroom seems to get smaller as the stories about the god get bigger and this leaves a classroom full of pupils/people living in their own echo chamber and who remind each other of the rules of the classroom on a daily basis. They feel like they belong. They believe their stories are true and breath in the atmosphere that is of their own creation. As new people are born into their glass classroom they too get to hear about ‘the Teacher’ and all of the rules they have for people living in their world and so they submit to life in the box. There is little chance of seeing the door to life outside the glass box now that it is well and truly hidden. As an atheist I am stood on the street and can look into the glass classroom. I have listened to their claims and checked everywhere for a teacher but could not find one. I have at times opened the door and informed them that there is no teacher there but that falls on deaf ears and the door gets pushed closed again. Shows like TAE are now able to transmit their show into that glass box and the door is becoming more visible. Conversations are happening between those in the box and those like me who stand outside the box. Questions are being asked which are not able to be answered by the information generated in the glass box. In passes the glass is not one way and those on the inside can see a life other than the one created for and upheld by themselves. This is a great thing.
God created Lucifer, other angels (including fallen angels), and humans so He could experience the perversion of Himself while blaming others for their perversion of Him. He did this due to His continual, inherent problem with eternal cosmic boredom. God is a brilliant, petulant spoiled child who delights in playing non-stop mind games with every person when he already knows their responses in advance. The games are designed to always show us how brilliant He is, while also delighting in revealing our ineptness by comparison. (Read the latter chapters of the Book of Job, where God shows Job who's the big boss man, as an example of this principle. God started the Job game, not Satan nor Job.)
@Toughen Up, Fluffy Job is usually recognized as the oldest (but not the first) book of the Bible. If God does exist, and if all 66 currently recognized Protestant books were written under His direction, then why would He start with Job? Isn't God setting the stage for everything else that follows, including the cataclysmic temporal ending in the Book of Revelations, so that He can show who's the "big boss man" throughout scripture? (You don't have to be an atheist to dislike God, alright? Let's say I have had an ongoing Father and son dispute with Him for years. I used to be an atheist, by the way. I also understand your problems with Job and his poor old turkey!)
At 14:00: Christian having problem deciding whether a message (or even a random thought) comes from God, the Devil, or him/her-self. Wow. What a complicated life. What a moment-by-moment burden. Enough to cause paranoia. A bit like phone scammers: You get a call. Is it legit? What's the caller's motive? Simple answer: Put the phone down. If you have a thought, YOU had a thought. Scammers don't make 'thought calls'.
@Black Sun Obelisk what? Hahaha who tf is Aleister Crowley? You didnt even get the right country 😂🤣🤦♂️ i will give a clue...the clue is in my name. Also lets have a bet ..here we go..pray to your god for the country i live in and if you get it right i will send you my ip address...thats a promise...however if you get it wrong you have to leave a very nice comment on AXP RU-vid comments applauding there work on how they help spread the truth.....so are you in or out 😀
@Black Sun Obelisk don't avoid it im challenging you and your god..do you not have faith in your god to give you the answer? Or is it that your all powerful god isnt all powerful after all?
@Black Sun Obelisk im challenging you to prove your Gods existence..pray to your god and ask the very simple question of the name of the country i live in...your god will know right? Or do you not have enough faith..or maybe your god isnt all powerful or perhaps doesn't exist at all. Oh and i dont care what your book says, i have no reason to take it anymore serious than a Harry Potter book. I dont live in fear unlike you theists
Can I just ask a question...and respectfully ask for sincere genuine answers rather than the abuse I've got on other posts here. 1st. I do NOT believe in God. I believe in scientific creation of the universe, big bang etc. But, I believe that there were, what I call teachers budda, jesus, ghandi etc that walked the earth and spoke a message of love. The reason I believe this, before I get hammered for mentioning jesus, is that I also know Hitler, stalin, attila the hun etc commited horrendous attrocities. How do I know? I read about them. 99.9% of religious texts has been manipulated by greed of man. But the core of the majority of it is a message of love and respect of others. I describe myself as a spiritual atheist...and before I get battered again...the definition of spirituality is "recognising there is something greater than us either cosmic, devine or scientific"...so I do not believe in a guy in the sky. My spiritual side comes from acknowledging the universe is greater than all of us, but it also allows me to respect theists beliefs. What I DETEST about anyone non believers and believers, is when they IMPOSE their beliefs on me. That is what the church does. Does that make sense.... Regards from ireland.
Hi , I.D. I'd like to correct some of your wording first . The phrase " scientific creation " is a little off . it would be more appropriate to ask , how did the current presentation of our universe form or come into being . Creation implies there is a creator and there is no scientific theory suggests a thinking agent of any kind played a role in the formation of the universe or anything else . Because no one has ever found an evidence such a thing exists or if it's ever possible such a thing could exists . Just be clear atheism is the position of not accepting god claims because they haven't met their burden of proof . Atheism is not an institution there are no dogmas tenants rules or worship involved . It's a single position on a single question . Now when it comes to the " holy " people you mentioned I have no problem that they existed . We can be pretty sure Ghandi was real of course but the farther we go back in history the hazer it gets . I kinda know the short version of the history of Budda and he very well could have been a singular person or maybe the story is an amalgamation of holy men over the years . And was morphed into one bigger then live character . And this is more then likely what happen with the jesus story . But the thing is we can't go back in time to verify the claim they in fact did exist . There is no external conformation the claims made by the bible are true . Also , and this is the most important thing of all . There is absolutely no verifiable or testable evidence that they could perform supernatural feats of magic or that jesus was the son of a god . Or that a god or gods even exist , so they're no rational reason to believe that the supernatural claims attributed to them . As for the core of religion being a message of love . For a few religions this is true but for many of them it's not true . Most religions claim love is their core , They preach their god "is" love . But if you read the bible and the Koran for example both endorse slavery genocide killing innocent people as witches and the killing of gay people unruly children and whole communities and keeping only the adolescent virgin girls for yourself . Read about what the god of the bible did to his most loyal subject " Jobe " . You'll see just how loving this alleged god really is . Gods were invented not out of love but out of the ignorance and fear of early humans that didn't understand the world around them . Long before these more sophisticated religions came around . There earlier ones with wind fire and lightning gods and these earlier religions grow out of fear and awl of nature . Not out of love, the love aspect only came in when later religions realized loving gods sale better then vengeful hateful gods . But whats most important is are any of these gods and religions true and like I said there is no verifiable evidence that any of them are . but we have evidence for how simple religions started and evolved and morph into more complicated ones . Which one of these more likely ? Now about letting people just believe what ever that want to believe . I have nothing against that , so long as they keep it to them self's but people don't , do they ? You being Irish you should know all about the catholic and protestant horror show that been going on for decades or what about the middle east ? If there is a god and if it cares about us then whats it's problem ? why won't this god stop all this death suffering destruction ? Just think about it , if you were a god and you cared about humans . What kind of world would you create for them , would it be a world like is ? full of war injustice poverty and billions of innocents suffering for no good reason ? The answer is NO of course not no rational empathetic person would . And until mankind can grow out of these childish belief's . There will always be people using them for their own selfish sadistic ends and using religion as a shield to hide behind . I know this post is long winded but I hope it helps you a little bit . Also what non believers are imposing what belief's on you ? Imposing a belief is different from trying to convince someone that holding an outlandish unfalsifiable unverifiable none testable belief is irrational . At least if you don't want to believe what an atheist says . You won't get threatened with hell and eternal punishment or burned at the stake lol....... you can just walk a way .
@@richdandanell2911 after reading your book above, I think you have misunderstood my standing. I am atheist. So your rant was for nothing. Everything you wrote, I have read a million times. I certainly didn't need you to explain it. My point is that no atheists have ever knocked on my door telling me to believe them. "Christians" have. As I've said numerous times in posts, I admire anyone who has a belief whether atheist or theist. If its practiced in the right way...ie personally. But pop your belief on a public forum, or to my face, I will challenge it respectfully. But TELL me I'm wrong, and I will challenge you to prove it. Faith can be a beautiful thing, I had it for 20 years. Not now. Questions?
@@irishdemon9346 I wasn't ranting . I was addressing the questions , they're questions that deserve more then a one sentence response . Also I know you're not an atheist but you asked questions about religious and " spiritual " topics " so that's what I focused on . Also the wording " scientific creation " was a really strange term , so I address it . I know you were expecting to get bashed but that wasn't my intention . What gave you the impression I was ranting or screaming at you ? I just explained that if people kept their belief's to them self's you can believe what you want . I also explained how people can't seem to do that and the consequences of people spreading and acting on their belief's they can't actually verify as true and they don't have evidence for and can't rational justify . Holding such belief's are harmful to the person that holds them self's and for the people around them . If a person holds one irrational belief that comforts them and makes the feel good . That will open the door to accepting even more irrational belief's without proper evidence . And the more you do that the less your view will align with reality . That's what I explained to you , I wasn't directing it's at you or attacking you and I wan't trying to offend you . So chill out man .
This is one of the best calls in quite a while, as I watched this today. I only wish that more Theists would call and act as rational as this guy. Because so many call with a "hidden agenda" and are trying to proselytize on the TAE's Hosts, which is a fruitless adventure. I wish they'd dialogue in such a favorable manner, as Arnie has done.
What if he'll,and eternal punishment,is real! Are you ready to face that? Better find out! Before it's too late! Trust Jesus and know you are safe! I do!
It would be a terrible thing if God were to part the clouds, look down upon humanity one day and say, What? You lot are still here? I thought you had invented hyperdrive and left ages ago. I've got 16 trillion tons of comet ice arriving next Tuesday, what am I supposed to do with it now?
Arnie: “It seems that both sides have the same problem- overcoming their preconceptions.” It wouldn’t seem that way if you learned some logic. You should also learn what atheism and theism mean before you try to discuss them.🙈
