Underpaid UK Doctors Flee Health System in Crisis 

I think that might be because health professionals in general are paid better in the US because patients/health insurers are charged a lot more. I'm happy for your in-laws

@@aperson2730 no it's entirely a decision made by the Government based on their political whim. Contributions towards paying for it are likewise political whim & there are entire classes of people who pay nothing at all, generally very wealthy people who would not notice contributing a small proportion.

Although the pay is definitely more, have they compared it with the big differences in annual leave, sick leave, etc. Not to mention all the problems America is facing now, I don't even view it as a place worth for a better life. There are much better places in Europe or developing countries.

The UK is an anomaly within socialised healthcare countries. Australia, NZ, Canada, and much of continental Europe has both high salaries and quality of life for doctors, while maintaining an efficient and budget-friendly healthcare system. The NHS is a disaster.

@@nazgual11able Depends on where you are. America is a big place. Seems to me the UK has much bigger problems overall. Certainly from an economic standpoint. Yes, we pay more for health care, but the quality of the care is better in America. I've never had to wait for healthcare. Taxes are obviously lower here as well and inflation is 5% not 10%.

Sounds like Soviet Union. Labi.

@@seiwarriors Jealous much?? I wish we had that kind of compassion here in England!

@@SevenEllen Overpaid NHS employees with gold plated pensions do not need compassion.

cool

@@taffyterrier If you really thought the NHS was paid that much you'd apply for it yourself but you're just full of it. Tory voter.

Money is fungible. Unless ALL items on a budget are paid by a specific tax, then NONE are. If you push sin taxes to health care in the future, they'll just reduce the other taxes that fund health care today.

It's more the point that the budget should surely be linked to the proportion of "sin taxes" raised

Loser Uk 😂

What do you think their pay should be out of curiosity? Do you think their landlords allow them to use ‘claps’ to pay the rent

@Bringon-dw8dx not at all but when they are still being payed from nhs and per patient and is impossible to see a doctor they are over paid I now have stage 4 cancer because I couldn't get to see a doctor only a nurse that was 4 weeks apart went private but too late plus most doctors in my area own the property

@@ajw1467 I’m sorry for your diagnosis but it is NOT the fault of doctors. There are no doctors and wait times are long BECAUSE the pay is bad. Therefore it is the government fault. If pay was higher there would be more doctors and you would have been seen faster. What has happened to you is wrong, and happens to too many people, and increasing doctors pay is one of the ways we can’t help prevent i happening to others.

@Bringon-dw8dx and where is the money coming from ? Higher taxes wake up they aren't doing much they don't see patients anymore it's just a nurse then wait weeks or months and then a letter for 3 months time to see a consultant then that was cancelled twice

@@ajw1467 you clearly did not read my comment. There are less doctors. This does NOT mean they are not seeing patients, in fact doctors are seeing MORE patients then ever. But it means more people are waiting because there are less staff. And the pay increase would come from taxes. The government continues to waste money on a multitude of projects. The government not paying doctors properly is WHY you have to wait so long to see them

You're living in a fantasy world mate. Being a doctor is obviously an incredibly hard job and it is absolutely underpaid. And that's caused by the Tories - who you probably voted for. Pay is only part of the problem here. Doctors and nurses are widely complaining about staffing levels and safety standards. They feel that currently patients are being harmed and killed by the level of work that they are expected to do. Unless you want you or people you care about to get harmed at a hospital or a GP surgery then you should want NHS staff to be well paid and happy. Grow up.

Maybe that's partly because they spend "magnitudes", to use your term, at University studying to become a doctor to start with

@Jay D normal doctors really do get paid a lot though. The average GP salary is almost 100,000 a year which is massive. I understand that it’s for hard work, but still, the real play issue is with junior doctors, nurses and other support staff.

@@boarbot7829 junior doctors are doctors. Without them the entire health service freezes to a halt, as we saw in the latest strikes.

@SassySam consultants are in the top 5% of earners as they start in the £80,000 a year ballpark. In Foundation training, doctors will earn a basic salary of £29,384 to £34,012 (top 43% => top 33% of UK wages). Doctor starting specialist training have a basic salary will be £40,257 to £53,398. (top 25% => top 13% of UK wages).

The Bay area is super expensive. That salary is not high given cost of living. That same Bay area salary probably works out to about 65k in pounds outside of London and the big cities.

@@vmoses1979 $120k in Utah where the cost of living is much lower and lower taxes.

​@nightmark2120 ironically successive UK governments (Conservatives) have been gutting the NHS in the UK to move it towards the US model of paid health care.

This issue is primarly for junior doctors, consultants make over 100,000 POunds or even 200,000 pounds. You have to consider the high cost of living in the bay area too.

​@@vmoses1979I moved to LA to work. Id say the 120k I earn feels like being on 70-80k back home.

Then she's lying to you. consultants are in the top 5% of earners as they start in the £80,000 a year ballpark. In Foundation training, doctors will earn a basic salary of £29,384 to £34,012 (top 43% => top 33% of UK wages). Doctor starting specialist training have a basic salary will be £40,257 to £53,398. (top 25% => top 13% of UK wages).

That what happend with many junior doctors. Senior doctors after Basic training and specialisation. Can make quite a lot off money in the UK often more then in other places in Europe. That might be part of the issue still junior doctors pay is to low. Some doctors return to the UK at a senior level, but the UK really needs more junior doctors.

@@maxwellflitton3973 But she said her friend was a junior doctor, not a consultant. Maybe I'm not understanding how this works, since I'm in the US.

@@maxwellflitton3973 none of that is impressive for a 50 hour work week even for blue collar work, especially after tax & deductions is factored. No consultant is taking home 80k, more like 50, & no FY1 is taking home 29k, more like 21. What is your job?

@@maxwellflitton3973 Unfortunately, ~£88,000 - £119,000 is not an appropriate salary for, say, a consultant orthopedic surgeon. That simply is not in line with that other English-speaking employers are offering, domestically or abroad. This also applies to NHS nurses and junior doctors.

Exactly where is all this promised „prosperity“ with brexit and leaving the EU? it only got worse

@@Syae22 believe me, you're much better out of the EU

​@@r3dp1ll who are you kidding?

@@r3dp1ll "Believe me"?

@@r3dp1ll why should anyone believe you when plentiful evidence contradicts your claim? Are you a Russian bot?

That’s a great summary 👍 They also chose to mistreat high-value essential workers and prioritise low-value employees creating an anti-intellectual society that fails to appreciate those holding its infrastructure together

step it up

‘Denigration of foreigners’- illegal migrants are put up in hotels in the Uk at the taxpayers expense. The problem is that the Uk has made itself unattractive to the right kind of foreigner ( the skilled one who would earn a high wage and pay high taxes) and attractive to the unskilled one who cannot speak the language and will drain the public purse….

Doctors are overpaid.

So you are the one with all my cash from the drug companies random anti medicine people tell me about. I wondered where it was and couldn't see it under the couch. Please let me join you!

NHS doctors are overpaid.

The problems were the same before covid.

@@taffyterrier how much would you pay for a plumber? Why do you expect to pay your colorectal surgeon so much less?

@@paxundpeace9970 it's true, the government was failing before COVID, the winter of 2019 was one of the worst in the history of the NHS, then the government used COVID to hide behind while continuing to fleece the tax payer. Now they cannot use it any more they are stiffing workers, blocking all other routes of recourse then using the inevitable strikes as a reason that the waiting lists are so long. Just know, the government sold off our PPE, paid people who were friends and donors but didn't know how to do the job high contract fees rather than public health services that did, then told you that the junior doctors were greedy. If this is such a market led government, then why do they still want to retain monopoly employer status?

@@taffyterrierthis simpleton has commented on every post.. government mouthpiece.

😂😂

NHS doctors are overpaid.

Theyre protesting big time today

In years gone by noble doctors never held the country to ransom.

america is an English colony

Perfectly balanced as all things should be😅 But yeah, this proves that only people who come from worst conditions can be happy working with the NHs

That's mostly an english speaking issue. you can transfer in and out quite easily

Just pure propaganda with NHS...with no.1...Nordic health care system is far better 😉

£40,000 in their first year after graduation - their income rises sharply every year thereafter.

@@taffyterrier£29000 in their first year after graduating. The woman in the video making £40,000 said she’s been a junior doctor for 4 years. That’s not a sharp rise at all.

@@louisew7065 £29,000 basic plus £11,000 in overtime, night shift allowances and weekend enhancements = £40,000 in their first year after graduating.

​@@taffyterrierright, overtime- so weekends, nights, nights during weekends, bank holidays, often 1:3-1:4 weekends through training which can last 10-15 years. You are comparing someone who works 48 hours a week which is 'full time' for junior doctors, and gives up weekends with someone who works 37.5-40 hours and does not need to work weekends. If you compared salaries of workers who work those shifts during weekends in the private sector, the difference is night and day. Fundamentally, doctors aren't worth 25% less than they were in 2008, and we lose over 15% of the cohort every year, and don't replace all of them through immigration, so you end up with 9000/80000 doctors missing from the workforce. Saying doctors get paid enough is a moot point when so many are leaving. This doesn't even cover the brain drain of skilled doctors getting offered better jobs outside the NHS and the cost to the NHS of losing those valuable skills and training. Why even train doctors?

Also, FY1s, even with the most horrendous rota wouldn't make £40k unless they pick up locum shifts which take up even more weekends/days off.

Doctors pay has increased.

Some…. but not many. Australia, Canada and the EU can pick and choose.

And the US. I live in Arizona and I meet more and more brits here every day.

@@JamesBond-io3ux How much are UK med school costs? Your med school costs are 12,000 pounds per year. That is nothing. Forgive me, but if you receive such a discount on education costs, your government has a right to pay you a reduced salary. Also, how much is your malpractice insurance after you graduate?

@@JamesBond-io3ux You have not been a student with $300K in debt yet for 7 years at 7% interest. Try it, see how you fare…

@@special1740 that’s for everyone in the uk, it’s not something special for doctors. No other jobs are punished for it

@@Bringon-dw8dx I did not understand at all what you just said…

@@special1740 American doctors are also not taxed at 45% when they eventually make it to attending, but they will earn at least 100% more. The argument that whatever package the NHS/Unis offer is equivalent to or better than X is irrelevant, doctors are leaving the UK for a reason.

Already happening. But even they won’t stay.

There are so many doctors and nurses from Nigeria, they are on 2 years contract, they just want UK experience and will move to Canada and they won’t stay 😅

hello

Sorry developing nations are no longer coming to the UK: They now go directly to US Canada NZ Australia and the UAE. Even Ireland pays x2 what UK pays their doctors. UK is broke. Period.

​@Dragon-up6rb That's probably for the best. They lazy and have very little empathy for the patient. Communicating with them is a nightmare too.

Doctors are overpaid.

@@taffyterrier😂😂😂

@@bluesclues132 Doctors are overpaid.

@@taffyterrier whose underpaid then - 🤣

@@bluesclues132 Carers.

Excuse me, u should also keep in mind that cost of living in india is much much cheaper as compared to that in uk!

@@SurajShetty-cb6xu What difference does it make. Most physicians from India would happily work for British wages.

British salaries are among the highest in Europe.

America is full of English nobles actually

​@special1740 you obviously don't know many Indian doctors, particularly the ones who have come over in the last 10 years This is not the 1980s any more! India has been booming and many doctors there are really quite wealthy. In India, the medical profession is still in the top 5% of wages and lifestyle Many of them come to the UK and bemoan the standard of living and high taxes and hardly any disposable income unless u live out in the boondocks eg yorkshire Lincolnshire, Blackburn etc Wake up, it's 2024 and India is no longer the land of elephants and snake charmers, they aren't necessarily impressed by the likes of Manchester and Blackburn any more 😅 Especially when they can also potentially go to Singapore, Australia, Dubai and even the USA. I assure you, they aren't coming to UK for the wages Why come to UK when we're permanently stuck in the 19th century and it looks we're headed back there with amount deprivation that there is 😅😅😅

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@lukeben1596 cryptocurrency investment, but you will need a professional guide on that.

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The BMA union has no control over anything.

Junior doctors are paid bad in the US too. Cost of living is higher too.

Wish it was that easy. You are going to have to take all the four step exams and complete a residency training all over earning 12$/hr for a minimum of 3 to 7 years .

You have to be well educated to work as a doctor in America.

​@@taffyterrierThe same as in this country?

@@freshtoast3879 No - British education has been dumbed down.

One of the few.

They’re not going to do that- once you do that, where do you stop. Every civil servant would want their student loan payed off by the govt.

@@mnnh1 well maybe they should. Most of the civil servants are having compounded pay cuts. Why do we want underpaid people working in our passport offices? Why do we want underpaid police? Why have student loans gone up but lecturer pay gone down?

Doctors are overpaid.

​@@taffyterrierdoctors will acrue a debt of £40k - £100k just for doing the course that is mandatory for training. The interest charged on this debt will increase with inflation. Doctors then have to pay out of pocket for all exams and all additional qualifications required for being able to apply to the next stage of training. They are made to rotate to different hospitals and areas every 3-4 months in the first 2 years, then they continue to rotate around hospitals during their higher training which means constantly moving. They literally have the responsibility of saving patients lives. They have to worm full time hours in a highly demanding job and study for their challenging exams. And you think they are paid too much? An F1 is on £29k you think that's too much? After years and and years a junior doctor in higher specialty training will get somewhere in the region of £50k, that is after sinking thousands of pounds into getting there, having more and more responsibility than most people will ever have and you think that is being overpaid?

** they don't move constantly during higher training, i meant they may have to move regularly. Which is still a massive inconvenience

Finally! A kindred spirit. :-) Thankyou.

and doctors.

Wait til they figure out that they got deceived, gaslit and robbed by the elders in the profession. That will be a sight.

@@eloiinvestigates yes. but wait till the elders find themselves with a collapsed pension and welfare. thats going to be much sweeter.

@@888ssss Haha, we think alike. I agree, that's going to be sweet. Have you considered that they'll just retire in the Caribbean/ Rivieras, to avoid the chaos, a la Cameron et al.?

Hahah that’s an absolute joke. The US’s health system is completely awful and also deeply immoral and disgusting for a country with such wealth. There us no reason our health system couldn’t be like the rest of the developed world apart from the USA.

no, wouldn't help.

It's almost already dismantled itself. And we can have private health care (insurance) if we want and go private. Some people already do. If I needed an operation and could afford to go private I definitely would.

@@chrishart8548 it should be completely dismantled so that government stops taking 10% NI tax on the name of funding NHS

I’ve heard a rumour from someone who escaped U.K healthcare before the crisis about 4 years ago, that the government had this on agenda for years because the American investors nudged them to defunct the NHS. The American private healthcare companies would then step in and fill their role, charging enormous fees as they did at home.

NHS doctors are among the highest paid in Europe.

Yes.

The NHS has had money sprayed on it, but no improvement. Blair shortened waiting lists by paying physicians to see patients privately.

Striking doctors have derelicted their duty to patients.

NHS doctors are among the highest paid in Europe but provide one of the worst services in Europe. British taxpayers are getting poor value for money.

No other foreign lands are dumb enough to employ them.

Excellent rate of pay for an apprentice trainee.

You have no idea what the conditions are like for doctors working on the ground and regardless of whether you won’t be a junior doctor forever, Consultants in this country are also grossly underpaid for the work that they do.

@@H20x3 NHS consultants are grossly overpaid.

This comment needs to be upvoted more.

@@taffyterrier not by market standards

@@H20x3 NHS doctors are among the highest paid in Europe but provide one of the worst services in Europe.

There is nothing average about saving your life. Inappropriate comparison.

I am a doctor in the uk, my pay is £14.08 an hour

that would make it worse

You are wrong. Counterexample: Australia. Doctors are some of the highest paid and most skilled in the world, and healthcare is basically socialised. Sure, there’s no free lunch, but socialised healthcare can definitely work.

Correct, this is the eventual state of all socialized healthcare systems.

It actually does work very well, both in developed and developing countries. The NHS has been politicised that's why it is in such a state. Also, all the UK political parties are more intent on saving the bankers & capitalists in crisis situations rather than the common man.

Germany it does work, very well.

@@dreamfire5210 Outcomes are still better in the UK then in the US. thats while the US is spending twice as on healthcare. Still millions go without treatment

Italy is cheap

You need brains to understand a countrys economy and finance. Unfortunately or fortunately you dont have one

@@ahmadsauyack2770 Doctors are economically illiterate.

No £100k student loans to service, no inflated rents rising faster than inflation but wages falling 30% over 15 years ( not everbody can live at home until they are 35 in the Uk)

@@mnnh1 Junior doctors wages have risen between 2008 and 2015.

Could you trust them to drive a bus?

@@taffyterrierMy gosh, Taffy. I've seen a lot of your posts. You are very angry with something you experienced. I'm sorry that you have had bad experiences with junior doctors. The issue is really the pay at Registrar level; it's simply not enough for the responsibility level. Registrars are also managers of their teams, and there is no extra pay for this very important skill. There are a lot of non-training registrar jobs, and these people do much of the work, without appropriate compensation. The other issue is that the job is fairly s#!^, therefore the only thing keeping people in the system is decent pay. I personally don't believe that all specialities should be paid the same. This policy has caused a build-up of issues over time.

Isn't that what they do in Cuba? Or is it cab driving?

25K

Her debt to become a Dr saving lives and changing human lives for the better, with her hard work and training, is much much more than u can imagine with ur thick skull.🔥 💀

Most people in the uk haven’t lost 5-8 years of earning potential to education, they don’t have the costs of being a doctor - yearly registration - yearly insurance - to pay for exams that usually cost upwards of £500 PER sitting (with the assumption being most applications fail a few times) - being forced to move across the country to remain in training programmes (this can include being forced to move out of your own home with your wife/husband to completely across the country). Sometimes you can be moved every 4 months to places that are not commutable each other. Moving this often has significant financial costs (not to mention the horrible psychological consequences I’ve seen). - to pay for expensive courses, conferences etc that are needed for your portfolio to keep progressing And remember that pay is likely based on the NHS full time contract (48 hours), not a standard 37 hours.

@@drsajidahkhanrainbowchildr9991 Doctors take lives.

Hi, I’m a doctor in the uk. I’m paid £14.08 an hour. The government offered a 5% pay rise, which would be 70p

@@Bringon-dw8dx How much do you earn early? Where do you live? How many years of work experience do you have?

@@rafae5902 I Don’t have a yearly salary because we are forced to move jobs every 4 months so hours vary, but the pay remains £14.08 an hour which means base pay is 28k. There is a blanket pay in the uk for junior doctors, other then a tiny uplift in London. So everyone is paid the same regardless of where you live, it’s the downside of having a monopoly employer. To help explain the experience question here is the pay scale (per hour) 5-8 years education you obviously pay for (which usually includes around 2 1/2 years experience on the wards, 1 year being more like an apprentice role although you still pay for it) FY1 14.08 FY2 16.31 ST1/2 19.3 ST3/4/5 24.46 ST6+ 28 (minimum 8 years experience if you were blessed enough to go up by one each year)

@@Bringon-dw8dx Thanks for the info. So a ST6+ earns 28 per hour. Would it be around 54k year? The base does seem low for a doctor with 8+ years of work experience. How much would it go up if he lived in London? What about other benefits? I've heard that doctors get a really nice pension?

​@@Bringon-dw8dxhow many hours per week do you work? Also, if you knew the pay rates for being a doctor in the UK, them why didn't you become something else instead?

the tax skin here is 46% with student loans, NI, lower rate tax, Pension....then another 20% vat and 10% council tax, then the 80% fuel tax etc etc.....lucky to eat fresh food !

@@flyinghigh22 How do fresh graduates in any other industry do it then? Making 15k less a year? I mean they're training aren't they? I don't know any non-sales industry where fresh graduates make anything like 40k a year. They get that later in their careers like everyone else. When you say they have to spend more time at University they actually get compensated for that in their starting salary and all the future higher than average earnings they achieve later in life. The understaffing is another issue, but with respect to pay, are they suppose to get special treatment or something?

@@MooperRanger 40k isn’t a fresh graduate salary for a doctor? The fresh graduate salary is 28k. And most other fresh graduates don’t have the same associated costs - many get to live at home (doctors don’t get to choose where they work, they could be allocated 10 hours from their home) - many get to stay in a stable job that means they can account for travel costs when they choose where to live (doctors in the foundation programme can be moved hospitals every 4 months). And moved location every year, moving costs A LOT of money. - they don’t have 5-8 years of being a student and the debt that gets you into (I maxed out many overdrafts getting through medical school that I then had to pay off) - they don’t have to pay for registration fees, instance, exam fees - they don’t have to pay to go to conferences and courses

@@Bringon-dw8dx youre stating the problem of pretty much every student (except the moving around). You have higher pay to compensate for this. I dont see the issue other than greed.

⁠@@krisb-travel People who do harder jobs/ are smarter/more valuable to society doing things that not everyone can do should get paid more in every sector. That’s how western societies work. Also it’s certainly not greed, no one should be willing to be underpaid for a decade for their work like the uk doctors have tolerated. I’m sure you wouldn’t love 30% of your salary to be taken from you for 10-15 years, why do you expect the same of others?

Also the government can afford it - they pay physician assistants who are less trained more money than doctors and plan on getting even more to fill the gaps in the system. They just want the nhs to fail.

@@readmeandsmile Doctors are overpaid.

The USA has standards and is selective.

@@taffyterrier "Has standards" Excuse me?? Are you being racist and/or insulting??

@@SevenEllen The USA is only interested in highly educated, properly trained, competent doctors which excludes the vast majority of British medics.

UK is not in Europe.

Trumpism, albeit a bit less extreme...

@@kostasmira2933 Different problems in different parts of Europe. Want me to be more clear or….

@@kostasmira2933 Yes it is

The french health system is also being trashed. On purpose.

They are not underpaid.

@@taffyterrier No, they are underpaid. It's why, you know, they're complaining about not being paid enough. They are paid less now than they were in 2010 - for more work which is done under worse conditions. I don't know what exactly you think the money saved by penny pinching the people who look after our health would be better spent on?

for the amount of work they do its underpaid. why take student loans, study for years, undergo extreme mental and physical stress, pay out of pocket for exams, registrations and indemnities, when you can scrub toilets and make more or less the same income?

@@95cobhc = GASLIT BY BMA BULLSH*T

Found the cuck. Your too ignorant to realize the conservative government have been defunding the NHS.

The UK NHS is fantastic value for money. How much does an aspirin cost in a USA hospital?

@@logik100.0 because it exploits & underpays its staff

@@CraigTheBrute-pf8zh It as in the government.

@@CraigTheBrute-pf8zh That is an issue. It cuts out the insurance providers and the billing departments in a hospital. you don't have doctors constantly fighting with insurance

Yes every doctor should be sacked, think how much money could be saved and given to the wealthy

What do you mean by shame doctors?

Shame them all you like, the time for negotiation is over anyway. Pay up or lose out.

OVERPAID? TRUE