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Understanding impedance rise and why it can HELP 

barevids
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I got bored of trying to explain this once a week over messages so I thought i'd make a video! tl;dr:
1) Coil moves in magnet creating current which opposes that coming from amplifier.
2) Amplifier sees opposing current as resistance.
3) Things that cause higher resistance due to higher opposing current: high excursion, strong motor, tight coil gap, many coil windings, large boxes, playing outside of tuning frequency.
3.5) In free air, Fs yields highest impedance. In a ported box, tuning frequency yields lowest impedance.
4) Best (ported) box design is one that holds the cone still enough to prevent over-excursion before the coil has reached its power capacity over the whole desired frequency range.
5) High box rise is a sign of an efficient system and can be used to wire amps lower to yield more power.
6) A strong motor doesnt suddenly give you dB gains, you need to combine it with wiring lower and/or more amp power.
7) Playing too far either side of box tuning frequency is like playing in a leaky sealed box (higher than tuning) or free air (lower than port tuning). This is why large port area = huge peak and steep roll off either side, and small port area = lower peak but shallower roll off either side (more flat response).
8) The BEST box design in the world is infinite baffle. The problem is that woofers do not have infinite excursion. If they did, you wouldn't need a box, only a baffle to completely isolate the front and rear waves. (rotary woofers kind of do this but they have other limitations)
9) T-lines work differently in that they have modes along the line that load the cone, then in between they let go, so you alternate between listening to the cone then the line then the cone etc. Ill do a video on this later.
10) Impedance rise can be seen every day with electrical household items that use some kind of coil/magnet/motor setup.
I am planning to expand on this video soon with some real life examples and footage using the SPL LAB LCD unit, to show the resistance at DC, then free air, then playing in a box. This should be pretty cool to see.

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18 фев 2017

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Комментарии : 223   
@indopleaser
@indopleaser 7 лет назад
Learned more in this video then months of searching for answers. Reason why you are in the top five favorite you tubers.
@liftedcj7on44s
@liftedcj7on44s 5 лет назад
This video teaches you more about how box design works, power vs SPL and impedence rise than any others that i've ever seen.
@wilsonrawlin8547
@wilsonrawlin8547 Год назад
Literally 10s of thousands of audio and bassheads need to watch this video and all of Barevids other videos. He explains everything so well that you become aware of other aspects of how the system operates that he didn't even touch on. Exceptionally well done, Sam! You are the Yoda of audio and Amps!
@garronah
@garronah 5 лет назад
Fucking hell. I will give it to this dude. He manages to explain horrifically technical terms in a manner that anybody can understand. Well done, young man. Well fucking done. Hell of an informative vid.
@jacktumbleweed
@jacktumbleweed 6 лет назад
This video gave me a HUGE "lightbulb moment." I obviously didn't just become an expert but I understand this SO much better now. Awesome vid, thanks a million!
@thedude2475
@thedude2475 6 лет назад
Reading some of these comments made me feel like i was stuck in an episode of big bang theory. I think he explained the topic at hand perfectly so those of us with less than electrical engineering degrees would understand.Your boy sheldon blew my mind with all that x,y,z talk.
@JViello
@JViello 3 года назад
Important to note as well regarding the woofer impedance graph. As you said effort goes down and that causes impedance to go up so one might assume wattage would plummet and make a dip in output. Not so because the increase in woofer efficiency offsets the drop in power. Excellent video btw. Well done.
@anthonylee7263
@anthonylee7263 7 лет назад
Simple explanation to a difficult to understand topic!
@legend131000
@legend131000 7 лет назад
Bro,thank you so,so much.I just learned SO much that I didn't know over the years about this specific term,I just used to build big boxes,with wide ports tuned low,and give the subs a shit-load of power without them even getting hot,but because of what I just learned I can actually start thinking very differently about my future builds! Thank you very much for everything!
@philmissy1
@philmissy1 3 года назад
Twice now you have changed my life. Firstly using a speaker to check for distortion which blow my mind and now this. What you do is put the puzzle pieces together but the trick that you have is to find the puzzle piece in first place.
@anglerandy5736
@anglerandy5736 3 года назад
Clipping or distortion
@philmissy1
@philmissy1 3 года назад
@@anglerandy5736 Go fishing mate, clipping is distortion.
@avac4312
@avac4312 3 года назад
I've watched every show on RU-vid so someone could explain to me box rise you are down hands by far the best video to explain it you actually did it for me thank you so much
@jasonleshuk
@jasonleshuk 4 года назад
This is the best explanation of impedance rise anywhere I’ve looked. Thank you for clarifying.
@Mkvy
@Mkvy 5 лет назад
Great video. Now that explains why my Old school 500 watt Rockford Punch AB amp is more than happy being bridged to 2 ohms and hardly getting warm on my heavy magnet sundown U12D2's. All the way to Dartford and back today! Just 35 degrees C on the heatsink
@kswis
@kswis 3 года назад
The knowledge man, it's oozing outa you. Not only better ways to explain things to those I know, understanding better myself thankyou
@alexisthemexican
@alexisthemexican 7 лет назад
Love this video explanation! I've "skim read" explanations of 'box rise' before and didn't fully understand. Neither did understand why some people were obsessed with getting rid of it. You actually did much better and condensed the info to make sense. Thanks for the info! Gives me more ideas on how to tune/design a box now. If only I had the time, money and skill to build them.
@ADR69
@ADR69 6 лет назад
Coils are essentially a dead short until a field is generated also. This was a very helpful video, thanks Sam
@Furybeatsgme
@Furybeatsgme 6 лет назад
Literally the best informantive car audio video ever. Well I've ever seen imo
@hopskustomaudio
@hopskustomaudio 4 года назад
Dude you are awesome. Thank you for this video. I completely understood the way you described everything and I finally understand box rise.
@d0peshow
@d0peshow 3 года назад
I started playing this video as background noise then stopped it when i realized it deserves my full attention. Fuck this guy is smart.
@jessicagermain9168
@jessicagermain9168 7 лет назад
this is the best explanation I've ever watch thank you for helping me understand to help better my designs in future
@MarcBchannel
@MarcBchannel 3 года назад
Absolutely the best video on impedance rise! This video answered questions that I haven't even thought of yet😆. Thank you sir
@RyanJensenSolkan
@RyanJensenSolkan 7 лет назад
You know that moment when you've been trying to learn something for quite some time, you believe you understand but still question if you have all the pieces of the puzzle until finally something happens, the light bulb goes off, and will stay on from then forward. Thank you for giving me that moment. Been watching your vids forever, love it, keep up the great work. I'm still pretty new to car stereo and about to undertake my third and by far most important box build for my first 'real' sub. A PSI platform 3(hp) 18" with a Sundown SCV-3000d to push it. I believe my electrical which I've been working on for the past year should be up to the task. 350a alt, d3400 under the hood, 2/0 to the back xp3000 to the amps. I've got some 13 ply baltic birch ready to go but am struggling to commit to my first cut because I'm not sure this aeroport box I've designed is going to give me what I want (musical, low and loud). Do you do box design? I've all the ts params, and my proposed box design & port but I really can't afford to muck this up so I'd love to run it by you or would gladly pay for some on point box plans given my vehicle setup & space for box. Is there somewhere I should/could contact you about this? Please let me know.
@barevids
@barevids 7 лет назад
Ryan Jensen sure bro! send me an email spllab.distrouk@gmail.com
@RyanJensenSolkan
@RyanJensenSolkan 7 лет назад
Cool man, I shot you an email, hope it all makes sense. Please let me know if I'm on the right track or way off base here and any other info you can give me! I can't wait to bang this thing.
@nitestrike1000
@nitestrike1000 7 лет назад
I must commend you for an awesome explanation ! You really took the time to break it down and not just crunching numbers and equations that some of us dont understand
@idocare6538
@idocare6538 6 лет назад
Same here Ryan except I had a light bulb go on in my head. =D
@treynathaniel4075
@treynathaniel4075 5 лет назад
Is there a way to take advantage of the "returning" energy? One would think that if you could divert that returning energy changing it from a fighting stance to a helping stance you could be more efficient to say the least and it would no longer be resistance. It would seem as if returning "energy" should be able to be determined and used whether back into the amp as being helpful which would seem more plausible or back into the coil. Perhaps a set of leads that return to the amp making it more simple to return rather than attempting to monitor and or distinguish,said energy, or perhaps just a given amount to return regardless. Instead of just to the speaker,a set that returns to perhaps even a transducer or the like.
@trei2unu
@trei2unu 7 лет назад
very informative, learned more than I thought I will when I read the title! if you have time you should do more of this kind of videos
@18i
@18i 7 лет назад
your awesome man! love how you explain things, turn complicated into simple! learned alot from your channel. thx
@gregblau8082
@gregblau8082 3 года назад
Lots of great information here. I’ll probably have to watch again to catch everything
@garyngrace25
@garyngrace25 7 лет назад
Great video! Thanks for the in-depth explanation I've been looking for.
@wow1022
@wow1022 7 лет назад
My explanation after recently graduating in electrical engineering Impedance of an inductor (which a voice coil is) is defined in phasor notation as the complex number Z = R + Xj, R being the real resistance of the coil (or "DC resistance") this is basically the Re TS parameter, X however is the reactive part that changes with frequency this can be calculated with the formula X = ωL (ω being the angular frequency (ω = 2*π*(frequency in Hz) and L is the inductance in Henries), thus the magnitude of the impedance of the coil is defined as the magnitude of the phasor or |Z| = sqrt(R^2 + X^2) essentially the coils impedance goes up with frequency because X rises linearly with frequency Now a voice coil becomes a lot more complex because you have the coil freely vibrating within a magnetic field this causes the coil impedance to very with not only frequency but also inductance as well, so X becomes non-linear, what effects the impedance plot is based around weight of the diaphragm, boundaries around the diaphragm, springs of air such as a box etc.
@barevids
@barevids 7 лет назад
Technologic awesome explanation! I wanted to go into frequency itself having a rising effect solely within the coil but I didn't want to over complicate this video, plus generally within the subwoofer frequency range this effect would yield negligible results. It explains the huge climb after 10khz though! :)
@wow1022
@wow1022 7 лет назад
I just defined Z and said that X becomes non-linear due to the coil's movement within the gap Going back to normal inductors they do a similar effect of generating voltage when the current is decreased through it (causing the magnetic field to collapse and through Faraday's law a voltage develops), it's just a voice coil exacerbates it and shoots up the inductance when the coil moves a lot
@barevids
@barevids 7 лет назад
would sound the same as a box that was laid flat of the same size. The sound output of a box is dependant on the internal volume, and port area + length only. The external dimensions are irrelevant (unless youre getting really in depth with fine tuning things). A tall box is great for indoors as it doesnt take up much space on the floor.
@hyperdriverr
@hyperdriverr 7 лет назад
Also been to electronics. High xmax overhung woofer typically have more inductance and they are harder to get a flatter response from. Another factor to consider is the type of box. Bass horns make the impedance go up A LOT MORE since the horn is basically an air transformer itself. I was going to comment on thermal compression since that is often over looked but he covered it. . Now I can't feel smart talking about it. I like using lower xmax woofers (sensitive, flat response) coupled with higher sensitivity boxes, witch raises impedance and usually power handling too. Less heat for given volume, All this lets you use cheap woofers, smaller amps, less electrical upgrades, but LARGE WOOFER BOX. No free lunch.
@tomkocur
@tomkocur 6 лет назад
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Speaker_analo.JPG This is the schematic of what you wrote and it's also what box designing tools use for the calculations.
@tortugalisa4748
@tortugalisa4748 2 года назад
I loved how you explained everything👍
@bpintogsxr1000
@bpintogsxr1000 2 года назад
Learned so much. Thanks for the video bro. Car audio manufacturers should be all over recruiting you for their builds.
@boostdoctor
@boostdoctor 7 лет назад
Awesome vid!!!! By far the best vid I have found on box rise. And this makes me feel better about my setup rising from 1.3 to 5.6 ohms at 34hz(my tuning/peak frequency). Thanks
@foley6939
@foley6939 3 года назад
SMD money and swag, Prices teeth, EXOs voice n energy, with this cats intelligence n give 0 Fs attitude! 🍻
@LUKEMORETHAN69
@LUKEMORETHAN69 5 лет назад
I love your Channel bro ..... I totally dig the way you explain and make it comprehensible for some of the not so technical savy people out there.... I look forward to watching your videos, a truly great learning experience and one of the few RU-vid channels that isn't blasting out cheap plugs to sponsors... though with the way you explaine and do what you do, you really should have sponsors backing you...😉...lol just dont totaly sell out.. great stuff
@jdiaz9759
@jdiaz9759 6 лет назад
im gonna have to watch this a few times
@Villeza1
@Villeza1 7 лет назад
I hate the term "box rise" as well. I've always called it imp rise and tried to tell ppl it's not a bad thing. It just means your system is efficient. With your explanation, it makes even more sense now. You've explained things that I didnt fully understand and for that, I thank you. I subbed and turned on notifications.
@Hertzsogood219
@Hertzsogood219 4 года назад
Brilliant! Lots of good information here. Well put.
@MrGhostVortex
@MrGhostVortex 7 лет назад
Awesome! I LOVE your instructional videos.
@jacobmason1199
@jacobmason1199 2 года назад
Bravo !! Thank for the info, best video Iv seen on the topic
@bigvell02
@bigvell02 6 лет назад
I agree there is a ton of wild fluffed out info some good some has me lost. Great explanation I also saw some great sub loading unloading examples in the impedance rise subject. Very well done sir. PS Greetings fro Chicago IL :).
@danielhardiman4707
@danielhardiman4707 2 года назад
This is some good stuff if you wanna musical box or not it pays off to open your mind before your wallet almost everyday you see some1 upgrading what they have to something else without understanding the woofer they have not matching the enviroment inside and outside the enclosure its an old video but appreciate you sharing the knowledge to a Tennessee guy like me!
@MegaTronX6
@MegaTronX6 7 лет назад
This helped me a lot to understand!Thanks barevids! :)
@750turbojoe
@750turbojoe 5 лет назад
You are awesome dude! You explain things well & make sense...Thanks!
@richardlakhan2118
@richardlakhan2118 4 дня назад
Learnt a lot from this bro thank you!
@SnoozeTube
@SnoozeTube 7 лет назад
Thanks for the info, I get it now. Wow, you a good teacher! 👍👍
@brandonjones952
@brandonjones952 Год назад
Thank you for explaining this I learned a lot more in this video than I have about how car audio works than my whole life combined. Your saving lives bro... lol well maybe not 😂
@cw824
@cw824 6 лет назад
Nice down to earth explanation, Thanks!!
@skatebunch3084
@skatebunch3084 2 года назад
I'm late to the game but absolutely wonderful explanation it gets rid of all of my questions thank you Sam
@snytty
@snytty 2 года назад
Holy shit... The way you explain things... There's no reason for any other videos on the subject from anyone else
@dead6last
@dead6last 2 года назад
love the enthusiasm ,,well done
@akeelshah7904
@akeelshah7904 7 лет назад
brilliant video bro
@carlthacker570
@carlthacker570 5 лет назад
Thank you so much. I just got my dream woofer 15 at sundown Neil, and I was wondering if I could wire it at 1/2 ohm. Now, thanks to you, no more questions… More vibrations. Aloha. Mahalo. Rooted to Rhythm
@handryraya2853
@handryraya2853 5 лет назад
Just watch it ang I love it, this one of my favorite video. Subs. Thanks man.
@joshuameyer7342
@joshuameyer7342 10 месяцев назад
Wow i just found this video and appreciate the information alot.
@rcmz0
@rcmz0 7 лет назад
Woaw, what an amazing video !
@manuelr7121
@manuelr7121 Год назад
wow that light diming ..analogy is so insightfull
@justyna4276
@justyna4276 2 года назад
Brilliant video
@tankdog03ify
@tankdog03ify 6 лет назад
That's why jl audio slash amps are awesomse!! The RIPS SYSTEM...
@brettus9115
@brettus9115 7 лет назад
Half way through the video atm but he does mean 1hz-20000hz (20khz). This is a good explanation for the beginner 👍
@makot1212gmailcom
@makot1212gmailcom 7 лет назад
What a great explanation thanks😊👍
@ruikazane5123
@ruikazane5123 6 лет назад
Box ride on impedance changes Subscribed now, BigDWiz sent me :)
@toddfromargyle
@toddfromargyle 5 лет назад
Wow man, this is a great video. 👌🏼
@tomasexteriors
@tomasexteriors 2 года назад
He is 12v magician ❤🎖😎🙌 the way he explains stuff here is beutiful to watch 🎖👊
@dawn9340
@dawn9340 7 лет назад
This is awesome!
@cedillokarloz690
@cedillokarloz690 2 года назад
Good Shit! Broke it down,to the" T"...GOOD LOOKIN OUT! FOR THA BASIC WÓOFER FUNCTION.
@SSLmnt
@SSLmnt 5 лет назад
This is amazing bro
@hippo-potamus
@hippo-potamus 4 года назад
Wow mate that was an outstanding explanation! Can you do a video of how the amplifiers damping factor plays a part in mitigating the backwards resistance? Thanks
@rexlysailas4215
@rexlysailas4215 2 года назад
Nice information buddy 💯👍👌💪
@HomesteadOC
@HomesteadOC 6 лет назад
Could you please do a video comparing and contrasting ported boxes vs passive radiator boxes vs sealed?
@yourmom-ii8ep
@yourmom-ii8ep 2 года назад
To port or not to port that is the question ❓
@GTILOUD
@GTILOUD Год назад
Team sealed gang
@eefjevandeven1
@eefjevandeven1 7 лет назад
bro this is the best explanation of box rise ever !!! great
@Durolith
@Durolith 2 года назад
great video
@vergiliuseiman392
@vergiliuseiman392 3 года назад
Awesome vid
@high-calmedia2733
@high-calmedia2733 2 года назад
Your content is so helpful. Appreciate you so much. Curious about creating a loud system with really high sq. What are your thoughts on different box designs and tunings in one rig? Like 2 6th order boxes with each port tuned to a different frequency to get 4 sweet spots with 2 subs? Is that a thing or no?
@tedtrotz8145
@tedtrotz8145 3 года назад
lots of practice with the fishing weight? Thank you for this explanation great job
@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS
@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS 5 лет назад
You have some great information and knowledge. I'm just wondering now if my subs with huge motors are a waste of money. I do know that the voice coil impedance changes the way the motor force is generated (series vs parallel wiring for example). I would love to be able to understand this better. If you were local to be i would to to confess with you directly. Keep up the great videos
@JayeBass
@JayeBass 6 лет назад
you could mention that a stiffer spider would allow a sub to operate in a larger box. but really really good, informative video!
@sethh8892
@sethh8892 5 лет назад
Hypothetically that is true, but there is a reason that we have specific enclosures for each subwoofer. Just because something is "hypothetically true" does not mean it needs to be used.
@MJamal55
@MJamal55 7 лет назад
It clicked in my head .....thanks
@Cypriotkiller
@Cypriotkiller 7 лет назад
Wow very knowledgeable explanation video, I learned a lot. But now I have a question, how does spider stiffness come into play and what effects does is have in terms of having to push more power into it for it to move. Is it purely for bass tightness?
@pewtercamaro1
@pewtercamaro1 5 лет назад
Bro you're my fuckin hero lol. You really take your time and explain in detail everything. I just learned something new today. Big thumbs up 👍👍
@alexmackellar9560
@alexmackellar9560 7 лет назад
Awesome bit of info. The Ah ha moment for me. Thanks!
@salvatorehayes2753
@salvatorehayes2753 2 года назад
16:34 Yup It's All About Finding The Sweet Spot Of Mechcinal Vs Thermal For Getting Peak Output.
@asherdie
@asherdie 2 года назад
You've convinced me a sealed box is the way to go.
@heavyset0223
@heavyset0223 7 лет назад
That makes sense, but correct me if I am wrong this only applies to The Sweet Spot frequency however music plays a whole range of frequencies so this would only be useful and decibel competitions seeing how loud you can get.
@7thsoneli
@7thsoneli 2 года назад
Great job here,ever thought of being a teacher? Low pay and a shitty audience are the rewards tho. You reach more people here tho. I remember hearing of a vent that was filled with dacron for lowering the pressure and resistance in sealed boxes,don't know if they still make them. Been being taught by you for years,and I am 65,thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
@danielmoraes9637
@danielmoraes9637 7 лет назад
Thanks!
@magnusnielsen2648
@magnusnielsen2648 4 года назад
Than you!
@bcjmusic2259
@bcjmusic2259 5 лет назад
you said bigger port right? now that's port cross section take place isn't? love watching your vid. gets a lot lesson
@randomportal5925
@randomportal5925 7 лет назад
dudeeeee fucking thanks so much mate.. thisssss is so dam helpful.. thanls for taking the time for this.. holy shit now i undertsand everything.. who the fuck no one ever made a vid like this
@drunklunchbox619
@drunklunchbox619 3 года назад
2 things.. could you use something like an exhaust cutoff to change port size at will? Also can you put some sort of diode on your woofer wires that prevent back feeding?
@madrussian4252
@madrussian4252 Год назад
amazing
@JackCarver10
@JackCarver10 6 лет назад
So how do I know if the thermal capacity of a voice coil is reached? Does WinISD simulate this well enough?
@avac4312
@avac4312 3 года назад
Thank you thank you thank you
@lazerlinec1770
@lazerlinec1770 6 лет назад
This video was F-ing awesome thank you so so much!
@teeone10
@teeone10 5 лет назад
so if your amp is 1ohm stable .running it under 1ohm wont damage the amp due to box rise, is that what the lesson is ?
@TimpBizkit
@TimpBizkit 7 лет назад
It seems like impedance wise, a front loaded horn is quite nice to drive as it has a flatter impedance curve than a vented box, and if fully sized, it doesn't have such a sharp quarter wave trough. The vented box has a lower impedance than the horn at tuning but higher most other places in the pass band. This means that if you try and extract maximum current capacity from the amplifier, you have to be more careful around tuning if bass notes spend a lot of time there. Also, using an excessively low Q (strong magnet relative to cone mass) with a vented box can produce a one note wonder. Why? Because the strong magnet can create a lot of pressure at tuning and therefore high SPL from the ports. The excursion peak is lower due to the reduction in power sent to the cone due to back EMF. The SPL is less simply because the woofer is moving less. There is less VOLTAGE based sensitivity, which although doesn't directly correlate to power efficiency, it does correlate to frequency response peaks and dips with a specific gain setting on the amp. Remember that video of the tiny woofer in the large box? It probably was a one note wonder due to the port providing a large efficiency gain that wasn't present elsewhere. Because the ears aren't that sensitive at 28Hz it was probably worth it though.
@barevids
@barevids 7 лет назад
Spot on my man!
@yourmom-ii8ep
@yourmom-ii8ep 2 года назад
This is why I'm running 6th order box way more tuning
@Alkatross
@Alkatross Год назад
How do I know what fq causes the most thermal rise? Suppose I'm building an spl and my vehicle has a nice resonance at 52 hz. Should I use a woofer with free air resonance at 52 hz?
@Kevinyaheard
@Kevinyaheard Год назад
What is a good guideline for square inches of port per foot of box volume? I tend to agree with 12 sqin for aeroport and 16 for slot port.
@ZipTiePros
@ZipTiePros 7 лет назад
Which is why I'm happier with my sealed 15 in my sedan. Gets low but sounds good up high as well. Although I do love a well tuned ported box sometimes (:
@pimphandgamester
@pimphandgamester 7 лет назад
What happens if you take a huge magnet from another speaker and place it onto the existing magnet of another speaker...does that equate to a more powerful magnet or would it do nothing at all or make it worse?
@sethh8892
@sethh8892 5 лет назад
Just adding a magnet isn't going to really do anything. You would have to actually place a bigger magnet around the coil AKA doing a motor swap.
@sethh8892
@sethh8892 5 лет назад
I can tell you are new here.
@gulag_inmate69
@gulag_inmate69 7 лет назад
you have a detailed video about 4th and 6th order boxes?
@sethh8892
@sethh8892 5 лет назад
Dont use them.
@TylerTheBassCreator
@TylerTheBassCreator 3 года назад
@@sethh8892 why not??
@TylerTheBassCreator
@TylerTheBassCreator 3 года назад
4th order bandpass ftw
@richardjones7377
@richardjones7377 7 лет назад
I am going to take the amp back what is a good budget amp for my sub I payed $400 for it would like to stay with DD thanks for the info
@joelchampagne2447
@joelchampagne2447 7 лет назад
resonance is always going to have the highest impedance. impedance varies from not just a electrical standpoint but mechanical and acoustically.as well. your dealing with both mechanical and acoustical impedance shifts throughout the bandwidth.
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