the moment you mentioned she could be the reincarnation of izanami the dumbest grin broke out on my face but in a way that makes a lot of sense with the game too. izanami is lie, marie is truth. she essentially died and was reborn as truth. a spiritual rebirth, or in other words, finding your true self.
I like to think that the reason for Marie's dungeon to have these mechanics is to have the players themselves give up on saving her. I mean, she probably knew the Investigation Team was going to try and save her but, she didn't want that. So she made the dungeon the way it is for that exact reason. Considering the fact people complain about the dungeon, it'd seem to work for a bit.
@@hwtvi3466My strategy back then was building a persona with high enough agility equipped with Mahama/Mamudo(on) along with their boosts, Spell Masters and Victory Cry (I even added Unshaken Will). VC helps retain half of my SP after every battle instead of halving my remaining SP. I solo'ed Marie's dungeon and only brought my teammates on the last floor.
Despite what a lot of people say, I really like Marie. I can understand why she’s not very popular, though, considering her usual personality. However, I quite like her snark, some of which is intentional and other instances being due to obliviousness, and, even if they’re very overdramatic, I enjoy her poems. Granted, I’m a person who enjoys writing and being over dramatic, so that’s probably the reason why I like them.
Despite what a lot of people say about P3F: The Answer, it's actually the reason why I like Yukari's character. A ton of people hate her because of the Answer, but her "I wanna see him" just sends a chill down my spine, because I know that I would most likely react the exact same way in her place once I learned that I can go to the past. Why do I emotion? 😭
Funnily enough, the best way I could describe how I felt about her is a word from one of her poems - Bittersweet. I do find her personality type pretty cringy and obnoxious, but I also find her social link refreshingly different. I feel like she could have been a lot more widely liked with only a few small changes.
@@doublechindoge7 The best way I could describe is that she's the basis for what would be used to perfect kasumi even though I find both shoe horned into the games.
If only Marie is not just an "added character" and actually appears on the vanilla game, I bet we will avoid the war among the fandom and she will be loved by the majority
Oh I've been waiting for this one! And I have *SO* much to say about her. Marie's first poem at the start of her social link sets the tone for who she is as a person. She says that she feels lost like the leaves flying through the air, only to deny that she was making up a poem in the first place. That's because if she didn't deny it, she would have to admit that she feels lost and she frequently avoids/denies her negative emotions by trying to act unconcerned, changing the subject away from ones that bother her, saying there is no truth to be found and acting as if she's not trying to put her thoughts into words with her poems. This method of avoidance only works for so long, and her supressed fears push back against her and she has a breakdown, and the game calls her emotion 'heart rending'. Despite trying so hard to avoid talking about her fears, it's only by admitting to her deepest worries that she realizes that she's been making memories the whole time she's been exploring Inaba. And through those memories she can create a sense of self to call her own that isn't borrowed. And if you romance her, she admits that in her anxiety she took out her frustration on the player and apologizes for it. Taking out her frustration on someone else isn't nice, but a very flawed and human thing to do. And if you check on her in the velvet room after her social link is completed she will state that she's okay without her old memories, and her new ones with you are more important. She's made a conscious choice to walk forward instead of worrying over the past she might never get back. Marie might be accidentally rude to the investigation team, yet she doesn't hate them. She cites that they're having fun and she wants to be like them which implied to me that she looks up to them on some level and they're responsible for her being willing to start looking for the truth of her past. But after December the memories of her assigned purpose are restored to her, and Marie realizes that she's a clear danger to everything around her. So she leaves without telling anyone why, and the second half of her character arc starts. To sum up that second half of her character arc, Rise says "No matter how painful things may be, you can't ignore it and hope it goes away. You have to face it with your friends and get past it." She has to open up to others fully and rely on the help of the investigation team to survive. There's also some angst potential here when she leaves. If you do romance her, Marie gives what she feels will be her first and last 'I love you' to someone she thinks she'll never see again, and will forget she ever existed when she dies. (On a side note, I've heard of Kasumi-no-Okami being translated to 'goddess of filth' from a tumblr blog years ago. But that blog is gone so I can't do more to confirm that translation) Lastly, I love the Lore reveal that Marie was split from Izanami. It reminds me a LOT of the goddesses of Chaos and Order, Yune and Ashera from Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn which makes it easier for me to understand. And I find it fascinating to think of how a goddess was torn in two by mankind's collective desire for unwholesome things. Like Namatame knowing his affair was wrong, but he went ahead with it anyway. Or the true killers lust for his victims, or even Yosuke's misguided desire to kill Namatame. It also gives a bit more nuance to Iznami's view of humanity, as Marie is the part that cared for humanity's wellbeing and that aspect is on display when Marie tries to take care of the fog on her own. Even without her true memories she's still acting with humanity's wellbeing in mind. And once you've beaten Izanami, Marie is restored to her full self and the game has gone from trying to discover a killer's identity to helping a goddess recover their original self. And as you can see in the final image of the Investigation Team and Marie, she just wants to be included as part of the group despite knowing her divine nature. I find that idea of a goddess living happily beside a group of human friends to be far more interesting than the overused trope of 'gods see humans as nothing but trash to be disposed of, and humans will thrive once they kill off said gods'. Lastly, seeing Marie in the golden epilogue shows the final piece of her character arc. She's gone from thinking 'there's no real truth to find, so don't bother looking' to encouraging the people that are listening to her weather reports to put more effort into their day. And I think that's icing on the top of a fantastic character arc.
Thank you so much for your analyses, this has been the most confounding part of P4G for me for a while. Marie as the Aeon may also be a physical personification of what the Investigation team is currently perceiving as "truth," that evolves over time as the truth's many layers get peeled back. I dunno, it was my thought.
ah yes, Marie, possibly my absolute favorite character from the game, from the look to the character arc to the everything it's just perfect, and your analysis definitely did the character justice and the part about how Marie could be interpreted as THE Shin Megami Tensei was something that I'd never even thought about, anyways greatjobamazingvideoIloveyoupleasantperson :-)
Hey Hiding, Just wanna tell you how much I’ve appreciated these analysis videos. Recently finished my play through of P4G and your videos are really connecting me to the story and it’s characters. I look forward every week to one of these. Keep up the good work man!
I love Marie. I really wish that fans *_(and_* Atlus) stopped treating her like her character never progressed past the literal first time you meet her when she returns something you dropped. (Though that problem isn't *exclusive* to Marie) When I got to her song in Dancing All Night, it made me so happy seeing her return with such a big smile as she danced her heart out; that's something "start-of-P4G" Marie never would've done.
This is the best analysis that I´ve seen so far about Marie´s character. I think that she´s a misunderstood character and even if there are some flaws in the writing her attitude and personality makes sense. People hate her for being a tsundere, rude and they even call her a Mary Sue (they haven´t understood what a Mary Sue is) but she has her reasons for being like that. She has depression, is alone, with no identity, she isn´t human and doesn´t understands our world... she reacts in an agressive way in defense. And being tsundere towards your ex-husband? totally legit xD. About the poems, they are awful but she isn´t human, there is no poetry lessons in the TV world she only express her feelings and with that she give us some hints of her true identity specially with the Fallen Angel poem. I love her, we could say that finishing her SL is like to see Izanagi and Izanami in good terms once again. By the way.. it´s me or her desing looks like Nana? (from a manga with the same name) she could be her twin.
15:51 In SMT games demons are born from human desire so, in a way, they are also born from the minds of people just like in Persona, just not exactly in the subconscious. There is a lot of evidence of this like some characters mentioning it and the fact that in older games you needed magnetite (which is the byproduct of human desire as far as I remember) to keep your demons summoned in the real world. So in the end what you're talking about is actually pretty consistent in Megaten games since the first SMT.
Yeah there seems to be a period where things were different with early persona and smt if, I generally consider those to be loose Canon for p3-5 and for p3-5 to be loose Canon for early persona. That's mainly because the whole series director, style, etc changed and based on some interviews it seems hashing didn't want to retcon or change things That happened before. Similarly in mainline SMT due to the massive length between most games (in universe) I think some of the details change as a result of millenia. The gods in persona ARE real, but they aren't real in the same way a normal jrpg "let's go kill god" real would be
@@HidinginPrivate to an extent you can interpret the vortex world/daat as what happens when the human world fuses with the cognitive realm. in both series, demons or personas are summonable only in places that are already overrun with demons/shadows. when a demon enters the real world without a fusion of universes (i.e summoning) it uses mangetite (see older games). when a demon manages to cross the boundary and bring the expanse/cognosphere with it, the boundaries are broken. idk what im getting at im essentially saying the expanse/demon realm is the same as the cognitive realm demons are just strong concentrated shadows, the real world is safe from demons unless magnetite (human desire) is spent, and when the worlds fuse (smt 3 and p5 endgame) you can summon without spending
@@illuminoeye_gaming when did it stated that the human world fuses with the cognitive realm is the vortex world/daat? Can you give me some links for that.
@@janericpaghubasan2930 well tbf its just a theory. but note that the conception happens and that causes the overrunning of demons. plus note that the ost for nocturne calls the overworld theme "real world" and the vortex world well, the vortex world its basically my conjecture
Remember Devil Survivor 1 where there was a whole plot line explaining how there was a spiritual barrier by the 4 heavenly Kings that prevented the demon summoning app from working. Before the start of the game, a cult had to use old fashioned demon possession on some special girl to obtain the strength to fell one of these heavenly kings, weakening the barrier enough for summoning to be viable for everyone. One of the game's endings involves repairing the barrier to stop demons from appearing to return the world to normal
the clumsy way marie interacts with the world in her SL, her confusion & annoyance, and her still wanting to undestand things in spite of this annoyance was v relatable to me. I did find some of her poems a bit cringe, though some of them really did hit (the sea foam one specifically) and I liked all of them in the sense that you can tell she's using these poems to try and figure herself out. I didn't get too annoyed by the cringy aspects of her because _of course_ she's cringe, she's figuring out what she is.
this is, personal, but i liked marie a lot because they reminded me of someone that matters a lot to me irl. they had issues with emotions for so long but as our relationship progressed one day they just... became Love
Marie is one of the best characters in Persona-- her teenage angst & poetry is wonderfully amusing, especially the way she rages at Yu for making her feel vulnerable. 10/10, would waifu again!
Marie aint my fave but honestly with ur explination i think i makes more sense now for her to be part of the game, still not my fave but good job making her for me like see her in a new way
I for one actually really liked Marie, my blind playthrough was Golden so she was in already, I went for her romance route cause she had a style closest to my type and her character fell close to home at the time and i genuinely enjoyed her scenes in the game. You can imagine how excited and moved i was when i saw she has an entire dungeon dedicated to her at the end, and while the dungeon itself was not very good lets be honest, the story points in it along with the haunting theme that causes my eyes to immediately tear up a bit even today was the emotional highlight of the game for me.
Honestly, I never got why she was disliked so much. Sure, poems can be kinda... uninteresting and frankly, cringe. Trust me, i hate reading shakespeare as much as the next guy. Still, her poems imply a lot about her character when you read into them. Even if im not typically a fan of the tsundere archetype, i actually still liked how sassy and sarcastic she could be
I can totally see why people don't like Marie from a base-game perspective, mainly because they feel like she's tacked on there. Her story arc is nice, but that dungeon sure is brutal in comparison to the base game due to the gimmicks.
Maybe I’m biased because I experienced Persona 4G before Persona 4 (& I found her annoying aspects funny rather than insufferable) - but I always liked Marie. I found her amnesia storyline rlly interesting & showing her the world throughout her social link made me quite fond of her. Her design in the Hollow Forest is also beautiful and I thought it presented a rlly interesting question to the protagonist about whether it would be selfish to save her. This vid def showed me deeper parts of her character that I hadn’t considered before, what a great analysis! I look forward to watching ur other videos on P4!!!! :)))
I do get the critism of Marie tho, her poems get annoying and how everyone just likes her seems a little bit forced. From what we see, Marie seems to be friends of the investigation team through Yu, but not friends with all of the investigation teams. But then again you don't need to be bff's to not want someone to die lol.
The Investigation Team has been saving and welcoming people without knowing them. I think it´s because as they all have suffered the same bad experience they won´t reject people so easily. If they accepted Kanji even with his popularity why not Marie? Is not that everyone likes her is just that IT is super friendly.
Plus...that worked fine for the rest of the game. No one was really friends with Kanji, but they still went to save him. Yukiko was an acquaintance of his family, but that's about it. Heck, they had as much reason to save Marie as they did for just about anyone. Yu was close to her and the others at least knew her. And at that point of their character arcs they could certainly empathize and relate to her via their own journey. Seems fine to me.
I'm one of those people who don't like Marie, but it's mainly because of her attitude. I can see her character was carefully crafted in Golden and I do like it when my mystery game throws more convoluted mysteries at me. Her dungeon is beautiful (excluding the gimmick yikes) and her boss fight is really cool. It's always a treat to see you digging into characters with 200% effort, keep up.
Thank you again for the great video! This video made me appreciate Marie's design choices much more. The lock choker is present in all her forms until the timeskip, showing how she isn't restraining herself anymore. How she is hiding her face under the hat, then a hood and after the timeskip she isn't hiding her face anymore, and is instead framing her face with glasses and is viewed by people watching TV. Very much visual character development. I didn't even know Marie was hated in the fandom until I was cosplaying her at a con. Someone came to ask me for a picture and said he hadn't seen anyone ever cosplay her. This video made me understand that ah yes, maybe it's because of her dungeon, because the response to Persona 5 Royals Yoshisawa was so different? Or maybe because she reminds the player ever so vaguely like you mentioned that they are playing a video game and people hate when someone breaks the immersion? I've only interacted with the Japanese fandom so I can only make these guesses as even the most hard core and violent tsundere's are loved (Asuka and Taiga).
So Spoilers for both P4G & P5R... In my Opinion, when it comes to New Content within the OG Persona 4 & Persona 5, I personally find that Marie was well & better added than "Kasumi" & Maruki (for him, it is in some Extent). Sure, both may have their Flaws but I find more Flaws with "Kasumi" than Marie when it comes to being a New Added Characters & Story. The Ones I point out the most are the Following: 1. When it comes to being "Forced" in the Narrative, Marie feels quite Optional in which if the Players don't like her, they could pick to ignore her & follow the OG P4 Ending. "Kasumi" in the other Hand, isn't Optional as you see her quite "advertised" in the 1st part of the Story of P5R in which "encourages" Players to interact with her, especially in Hopes that "Kasumi" becomes an "Early" accessible party Member... 2. The other thing to note is during Marie's SL, you would see her being able to interact a lot with some of the Investigation Team. "Kasumi" in the other Hand, wasn't able to interact much with some or most the Phantom Thieves, thus not exactly feeling like a Friend but just a Teammate that the Phantom Thieves just understand & somewhat sympathise. Sure we could say the Same with Marie with "Kasumi's" Interactions, Marie at least gets to know more of the Yu's Team... 3. "Kasumi" should've been better than Marie, especially for her to be a Playable Character but to me, inspite of Gameplay, narratively speaking, she is more like a "Forced" character than Marie. 4. So like I said, Marie is better than Maruki in some Extent ie because how Marie connects Persona 4, both from OG to Golden where the Topic of Truth is still there, especially with mentions of her Connection with Izanami & the Sagiri. Maruki in the other Hand, doesn't know much of what happened during the Events of the PT vs Yaldabaoth. Sure, the Story connected in some Extent but with Maruki not directly knowing, it makes P5R disconnected in some ways. So to put it simple here, while Maurki is the better handled Character , Marie is better handled Narratively in the Story...
I feel like most of the point you made in saying Marie is better added than Kasumi are actually what most people critisize about Marie. First of all, the fact that she seems optional already make her feel like she was added later, since you can go the whole game ignoring her, but still get a good ending. So she seems like an unimportant character, but then you do her social link and you see her interact with the party member, something that most other social link don't get to do, apart from small scenes like in Shu's SL, which kind of make you feel like that maybe she is important. And then you ge to her dungeon and at that point you're sure that she is important, but despite that for most people she still sticks out as the "New Content", for the reasons stated before, you can complete the game ignoring her and have 0 consequenses despite being as important as the other Sagiri, which you have to beat for a good ending. To the point of not being relevant to the actual story than I think Marie and Kasumi and Maruki are more or less the same in the sense that if you ignore them you can still get a good ending, or at least I think that's the case in P5R, but I'm not sure about it. But I feel like the reason why Kasumi and Maruki feel better integrated into the story than Marie is the fact that they actually appear in story cutscene, major or minor, unlike Marie. And that's why she feels off to some people, because she is important, but never appear in the story outside of her plot, she interact with the party members only in her SL,and she is never seen in not even the filler scenes making her feel like even more that she was added afterward, since they never rewrote old scenes to make her appear. And so she come off as the "New Content" especially for those who have played the original P4. While Kasumi and Maruki do appear in the story and in various scenes in the game, making them feel like less as the "New ones" and more like they were there since the beginning, especially if that's the first time experiencing the game, but even if you played the original P5, they still seems less off than Marie. Although I do agree that Marie as a concept, if she was integrated a bit better, would have fit a lot more in the story of P4 as an integral part of the plot and lore, while Kasumi and Maruki's arc, for what I remember since it's been awhile since I've seen their plot, are more an additional more stand-alone arc of the game that don't expand on the lore of the game. Hopefully I didn't came off as offensive and I was able to explain my points well enough. But to summarize, yes Marie feels more connected to the original P4 plot, but has the problem of coming out a lot more as "New" because of how she was added. In any case, thanks for the time spent reading this gigantic wall of text lol!
@@MattiaMolin Dont't worry, I understand your Perspective & Opinion. Sorry for the Late Reply here but anyway... Though "Kasumi" & Maruki have more Cutscenes, either that be as Anime or Game Cutscenes, I feel like Marie & "Kasumi" & Maruki are kind of the same in terms of Presentation to being New Content because they are quite hinted the Moment you start the Game from the Intro, Small Interactions, etc. & though Marie doesn't have much Cutscenes as Them, Her presence in the V. Room should be a Hint enough about her Importance as New Content. The Major Flaw of Marie for most of the Fandom (not me at Least) is Marie's Character & Personality which to them, is quite annoying but most of all, feel unrelatable to her in terms of Backstory & Character. While it is an Understandable Feeling to dislike her Negative Aspects, to me I feel like her Writing & Characterization fits, especially with it being Another Way to tell the Theme of Reaching out to Truth. This said, I do agree that she could've been implemented better via Means (Moments or Cutscenes) that are unrelated or Outside to her SL but I feel like Atlus already fixed/remedied the Issue via the P4G Animation where Marie had more Moments to be with Yu & the I. Team which were not within the Game. All this said & done, sorry but thank your for reading my Long Reply 🥰
@@marklouiegarcia2588 Yeah it is true that most people dislike Marie for her personality rather than anything else, but I personally quite like her too. And also true that they fixed a lot of problems with Marie with the anime, which makes it a shame that those "cutscenes" didn't appear in the main game as well, it would have definitely made Marie more enjoyable for a lot of people.
@@MattiaMolin I feel the Reason that didn't do such "Cutscenes" in the Game to begin with is because they didn't want Marie be very implied to be future Teammate but rather that she is more connected to Narukami to make her understand & value the Truth & the World. In other words, if said P4G Anime scenes were to happen in the Game, instead of the Message of True Socialism & Friendship being the Idea here, it would've give another Message about Marie being a Future Teammate instead. Now Marie being a Teammate would've worked but I honestly don't think so because she is technically a Goddess so she would've been kinda OP...
Marie is certainly one who grow on me throughout the game. I initially didnt like her cause of the Tsundere personality but going through her Social Link and see her struggle I start to really care for her and want to help. her poems while cringy do shine her more positive attributes and love of life. her inner conflict is well done and fits with Persona 4. aure may need some tweaking here and there but her positives, much like all of Persona 4, far outweigh the negatives for me. plus I like seeing epilogue Marie and being much more cheery. hell her dance in P4D is great to see cause she is more happy and enjoying the moment (until Margaret shows up lol).
I've never minded Marie much in concept, it's just that in execution she's kinda tacked on (I started with Golden and could still pick up on when new scenes were added just from how starkly the writing style switches) and only really revolves around the MC. I appreciated the attempts at letting her branch out to be friends with the cast, but they were all surface level and kinda forced interactions, especially with characters like Kanji. Even in spin-offs she's kinda just into Yu and pretentious, and while that's cute I wish she had more... Actual characterization besides writing goofy poems.
I played the og p4 first so I've always felt Marie was out of place and she'd should've been part of a different game, but your video really puts how she helps the narrative into perspective.
Awesome analysis as always! Marie is one of my favourite Persona characters , so I really enjoyed this deep dive into what might be her real-world inspiration(s). Hope you're doing well and looking forward to the next entry in the series! ^^
To be honest, I don't mind Marie's personality. In fact, I don't find her as mean as a lot of people make her look like. If anything, the only thing that bothers me about her is that her character arc is kind of a rehash of Teddie's.
How do you find her character arc to be kind of a rehash? I personally felt that while they were both amnesiac, Teddie and Marie had to learn wildly different lessons to come to a place of peace and acceptance about themselves. And as this video points out, Marie stopped looking for her past before it confronted her and made a mess of what she was trying to do at the end of her social link. So i'm politely curious to why you think that way.
@@MikulOnIce85 Both start out being amnesiac, and they both ended up having similar origins, with Teddie being a Shadow, and Marie being the "light side" of the True Final Boss. That why I said "kind of", because I know they aren't the exactly same, starting with their personalities. Nonetheless I still find their core very similar.
I like Marie overall. Her arc got really good as it went along and I appreciated the element it added to things with Izanami. I get what people have issue with and I am glad they learned how to more smoothly integrate additional characters into the story in P5R. But, she was a nice addition to Golden and I'm glad she's there.
Though to me, with P5R, it feels like the result of Atlus still being hurt by the backlash from P4G and wanted to make sure it never happens again. Like, why do people consider the new character who ends up getting the most screentime out of the rest of the characters and being much more shoehorned in as the new love interested and yet due to not wanting to make the fanboys angry over any parts of the original story even being slightly changed or even having an added bit in, is forced to be put onto the bus until what is basically Persona 5's equivalent of The Answer from Persona 3 FES an improvement from Marie? I'm just baffled at this, it's like they'll only like the new content if it's not part of the old content in anyway shape or form.
Just finished P4G for the first time, I litteraly felt in love with Marie. Everyone just stops at the fact that she is way to much of a tsundere, and don't even look at everything else. I think that her character arc is the best in the game (along with Naoto), started from a "walking empty shell" and became a real person, filled with memories she created with the investigation team, and the MC, following the fact that: "People are made of memories". In the end I was surprised to see that she is Izanami, she was obviously someone important, but I didn't even thought about her being Izanami, probably I'm the only one that didn't see it coming, but I'm ok with that lmao. In the end, the fact that "Izanagi" and Izanami where reunited made me shed a tear. This game was a hell of a ride, but, compared to P5R, this is much better. After ending P5R I felt satisfied, but after P4G I felt happy, but empty, P4G has a hell of a cast, imo the best of the series. Idk if you will ever read this, since the video is a few months old, but thanks for your analysis of every single character, and for the 10 hours analysis, keep it up mate!
I remember being confused to learn people hated her. I mean I get it, her personally is kinda cliche and cartoonish, but she still has a lot of good qualities. I basically just see her as Inaba itself (or Yu's perception of Inaba) personified as some tsudere girl. Her social is you to going throughout the town and talking to various people important to the game after all, and in P4AU they do call her a local goddess. Plus her main power is over the weather which is a surprisingly important part of the game thanks to rain causing the midnight channel and the obvious fog. Really my most disliked part is just her poems, which for the most part I actually do like. They're not supposed to be big important things, they're just some girl's hobby, a hobby she enjoys and is always thinking of but still embarrassed by. The only think I really disliked about it was how slow they are to read and how it happens without asking just by entering the velvet room, which I do all the time. It quickly became a major pace breaker. Also that they for no reason come back in Persona Q. But yeah Marie's nice. She's far from one of my favorite characters in the game but I far from hate her, or her dungeon. Although I 100% understand the desire for Atlus to remake a game without feeling the need to add a new waifu that's super important to the story somehow despite the game originally being written without her. At least Marie comes with the little meta storytelling in how ignoring her social leads to everyone forgetting she ever existed, almost like you could play a whole version of this game that doesn't include her, hmmmm.
Really nice video and makes me appreciate the effort they made towards Marie more. ...Though I admit, I still think a lot of it was poorly executed and I have a lot of issue with Marie's identity--not so much her personality, more her overly convoluted backstory and how I feel she hurts some of the game's themes by integrating into the world as a Magical Teen Goddess, when before the "Real World" was always supposed to be mundane and well...real...to separate it from the TV World. Not to mention her kinda...taking away your victory by doing something very similar to what Izanami wanted at the end. 15:36 After beating the final boss, Marie actually says that *she* is the real Izanami and the other Izanami was just an aspect of her that split off. The aspect that wanted to give humans what they wanted. This is why some of her poems profess an undying love for her husband, Izanagi.
I love Marie but if they ever do remake P4G i hope they include her hanging with the group like the P4G anime did. It really fleshed out her character and made her relationship with Yu and the gang feel so much more fulfilling. I liked how it added to her and fleshed out her fears and anxiety as the game unfortunately doesn't focus on her much unless you willingly do so, so most people think she's just the emo tsundere standing by the door and ignore her when there's so much more to her.
I actually already liked Marie but with this I think I like her even more. She is the actual reincarnation of Izanami after she has been cleansed of her past.
I never would have guessed that Marie is based off an original god rather than a known one in Shintoism. As far as her character goes, I'd say I like her, just not as strongly as other members of the cast. She's got a pretty unique attitude and design compared to everyone else which I've always found enjoyable. She's really not even that mean or obnoxious as far as the tsundere stereotype goes because most of her rude moments come from a place of ignorance rather than malice. I pretty much knew most of what her purpose was in the story, but your analysis helped answer the remaining mysteries surrounding her for me. I didn't know that she was Izanami's ego! My only nitpick with Marie is that I have to listen to her poems whenever I just want to do some fusing! (At least Margaret gets a kick out of it lol) Great video Hiding! I'm looking forward to hearing what else you have to say about this game's characters and world!
Thanks for this video!!! The hate for Marie makes me sad, it's like people overlook the grown in her character. Perhaps it has something to do with her overbearing personality, I thought tsunderes are fan favourite? They could've done better? Maybe. But in the end, she is likable, and that's enough. Marie is a character often misunderstood, and this video fundamentally shows why. Love her design btw
Dang, with how long p4g has been out, that seems like a pretty big feat. The videos will stop eventually since this is all a part of a giant single video I'm working on, but I'll keep talking about other games! (And maybe more casual p4g vids)
I normally don’t comment, and I doubt you’ll see this since this video isn’t brand new, but I wanted to express how much I appreciate your writing in this video. You’re not the biggest fan of Marie from the sounds of it, but you don’t let that dictate the tone of your analysis. This video makes Marie feel like a valuable addition to P4G with how you describe her struggles and background rather than a dispensable piece of the narrative. Can’t wait to see more of these analysis videos in the future. 😇🙏
I don't know why people hate Marie that much, she is a tsundere and make cringy poems but that's not enough for me, her story compliments the final arc very well and her social link is very heartwarming, but oh well...
I didn't know people didn't like Marie. P4G is my favorite game of all time bar none and I cant think of a single character I don't like, but even if you made me pick one that I liked a bit less it would be Shu, then Yosuke then Yukiko and again, I like all of them but I just think they are the most bland and least memorable. Naoto gets burnt a tiny bit (and Adachi to a lesser extent) because her character sort of bleeds together with Akechi from P5/P5R but in a vacuum she's a great character I just think Akechi played off her too much. For example I don't think I ever would have trusted Akechi first playthrough of not for the fact that I assumed he was just like her. Point is though, if you only include social link characters Marie is probably not even bottom 5 and there's really not a bad one in the bunch. Persona 4 really killed it with terrific characters and story even though 5 has far better gameplay I still like 4 better based on that.
Marie is probably one of the most meh reactions I've had to any social links in Persona 3, 4, or 5. I'm usually at least lukewarm positive on most links. I should, of course, replay Persona 4 Golden because I barely remember Marie.
16:07 Persona 5 has really changed how I view the rest of the games in modern Persona. Like I view Tartarus and the TV World as self contained collective Palaces like Mementos and the fact that the gods really only have power because human cognition allows it.
Why do people dislike her? She’s freaking amazing I played the og persona 4 then I bought golden I actually love her she’s directly tied to you and she gives you a reason to fight something other characters got and not generally your character. She’s a sweet romance once you get through her and her poetry is actually good if you read it.
People hate her because of her poems by saying they’re terribly written, I find it cute and funny how bad they are, I’m sure plenty of emo-teens write terrible poetry all the time. It just makes her feel natural in my opinion.
I hated that you only get the one day to take on the dungeon not because it's unfair I just went in with a lot less sp item than i intended ( plus I play better with a don't think just try approach lol). Up until her fight it was hard but once you get to her she felt easy if you fought enough and collected those element resist destroying rocks. I just wish you got more time but all in all I like Marie's character and challenge.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Marie is overhated. She’s nowhere near my favorite character, but the hate for her as a character is overblown in my opinion. The only thing I truly hate about her on the same level as everyone else is her dungeon. May have been one of the most miserable experiences I’ve ever had in a Persona game, second only to Okumura’s palace.
I love watching your watching your video's. Every time I watch them it resonates with me with how you go in depth about each characters details about their story. It makes me feel more comfortable with my own insecurities and worries. Makes feel like I'm heard or not alone in this world we live in.
Since I began playing P3R, my RU-vid algorithm changed and brought me to your channel. Boy do I say, where have I been to miss this hidden gem. I played the vanilla version of P4, so in my POV, the addition of Marie felt like it was being forced on. And it didn't help as I played P4G, in her social link ventures we would be "conveniently" met our friends out of nowhere. It's like they tried so hard to include Marie with our friends so she would be relatable to them when it counted. Even in vanilla, the one who made the fog dissapeared was Ameno-sagiri upon defeated. In P4G they inserted a new role for that so Marie had a purpose story-wise. I don't dislike her, but her entire existence confuses me. What do you need for her when you could achieve more or less the same outcome with the existing characters? But, it helps when I change my mindset that P4 and P4G are two different games and should not be compared to. Anyway, your video is great, especially the analysis on Adachi. You really grasped his character well and broke it down to us in an easy and well-thought explanation. You've earned yourself a subscriber.
Nice analysis on Marie's character 👍 I'm also one of the few who don't hate her as a character. I wasn't fan of her dungeon, but i do like her story arc and her relationship with Yu aka Main Protagonist is actually quite believable. Unfortunately, only issue i have with her is her bond with rest of the Investigation Team. It doesn't seem believable to me imo. She is her usual cold, standoffish self, yet they are fawning and wanting to befriend with her. She opens to MC the most compared to rest of the team. I can sort of understand people not liking her due to her "Tsundere persona" or that maxing her social link is requirement to unlock the best ending.
no mention of her bringing fSteak to Persona 4 itself rip but the main thing I really dislike about Marie is her (purposefully) cringe poems being unskippable. Can't even fast forward. So if you want to fuse you're forced to sit through this intrusive roadbump every now and again. I also feel her tsundere-ness isn't as well done as it could have been. Always enjoy Hanakana though so there's that.
15:55 That's only kind of true and depends on if Persona 3, 4, and 5 are their own timeline. The original Trilogy of Persona titles take place in the same timeline as Shin Megami Tensei If and all of the Devil Summoner Titles take place in the same timeline as the female protagonist from IF ends up working as a Devil Summoner under a detective possesed by Kyouji Kuzunoha. On the other hand Persona 2 EP states that demons and Persona come for the same place.
I always liked Marie and and game feels incomplete without her, though my first experience with P4 was Golden so there might be some bias. The one thing I really don’t like is her plaid skirt. It is just too much next to the stripes. That being said, this was a great analysis into both her and her dungeon.
the antique Comb is the final gift Izanami said to have gifted her before their separation…in Japan, gifting someone a Comb can be interpreted as telling them to go “suffer and die”.
Did the gods really can’t manifest by themselves in Persona universe? Isn’t Philmon and Nyratothep just messing around in Persona 2. (And Philemon also still appearing as save point in P3-P5)
Persona 2 seems to operate more closely to SMT rules than 3-5. The hashino personas sort of soft rebooted the lore. Also Philmont isn't every butterfly. It's left ambiguous as to whether Philmont is every butterfly or if it is just the standing for a miscellaneous attendant. In P5R 3rd semester for example Lavenza is confirmed to be the butterfly, trying to reach the player as her real body has been split into Caroline and justine
Idk how often you enter the velvet room in your playthroughs but generally she only has new forced dialogue once per dungeon, and that's only if you have been doing her social link gradually alongside her. Not doing her social link, starting it mod/late game etc avoids most of it and even then it's barely any dialogue at all from before Kanji onward
