Unitas 6497 Low Amplitude performance problem Seagull ST36 ST3600 Watch Repair Lesson

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When working with this movement for illustrating the lessons in my Watch Repair Course, I have perhaps stripped it down and re-assembled it some 5 or 10 times in the past month.
The last time I did this was during the Live stream and once it was assembled the watch gave a very low amplitude. I did not show this in the stream as it was then past 10pm and I had dinner waiting for me, but when I came back to the movement the following morning, sure enough it was running with very poor performance.
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Опубликовано:

24 июн 2017

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Комментарии : 205

@mercuriall2810 4 года назад

Fascinating! Such a small ‘adjustment’ to the plate below the balance cock, altering its position & it’s impact upon end-shake of the balance staff is the difference between the movement running well & running with a fraction of the amplitude it should have. Not being a watchmaker, almost everything you show is new to me & I really your content & very much enjoy learning about it all. Thank you Mark.

@thinkharder2028 5 лет назад

Your voice is soooo calm and relaxing....and with this background new age music....I think I may have lost conciousness briefly ; -)

@briancarruthers1738 4 года назад

it would be better if the narrator spoke English "wiv", "wever" "oi fout"

@Knapweed 4 года назад

@@briancarruthers1738 If he was giving lessons in pronunciation, maybe; however, this is a watch repair channel. If you are so concerned about 'proper' English, I suggest you begin your sentences with a capital letter and pay closer attention to your punctuation.

@arsaeterna4285 4 года назад

@@Knapweed Also he's not mispronouncing anything This is his local accent, he is literally saying 'with' correctly, in his local accent

@fLaMePr0oF 3 года назад

Yup, watchmaking ASMR XD

@Tonyv1951 3 года назад

Hi Mark. I watched this a few months ago and low and behold, while I was cleaning and servicing my Seagull version of the movement, I had the exact same issue when I put it back together. At first I suspected a speck of dirt in the balance jewels, but it wasn't that. Mine did not have the little dig in the metal under the balance bridge that yours did, but when I made one myself and raised the balance bridge a touch, thereby incresing the endshake, the problem vanished instantly. Thanks for that. I would never ever have come to that tactic without having seen your excellent video. The watch has maintained time within 10 seconds for a week. Fantastic accuracy for a £30 movement.

@rockykohut4599 7 лет назад

Thanks Mark , I'm having the same problem, I've tried smimming , like I've found in some of the Russian watches !. Thank you again Sir. and blessings to you and all your loved ones!.

@dbzamora 4 года назад

Being unaware of this will drive a tinkerer like me crazy! Thanks for the valuable information. Cheers!

@JulesB-zv9dp 2 года назад

Thanks for your help Mark. I have repaired one of my watches that kept stopping when the screw was tightened on the balance. I could see that this kind of adjustment for end shake had been made in the past. I carefully raised the dent made before and was able to tighten the screw and the watch runs as it should with plenty of amplitude. Thanks for your help 👍

@robertgoidel 5 лет назад

Thanks Mark, Excellent video in your illustration and explanation. I had no idea until you pointed this out. Thank you again so very much!

@kenphuah8157 3 года назад

Seen many of these but didn't realise until you point out. Good lecture.

@stevegall7438 Год назад

This is an amazing piece of “insider” know how. I’ve found all of your videos informative but this one is a gem

@Driftmonkey Год назад

Was that a pun 🧐

@Driftmonkey Год назад

Was that a pun 🧐

@brunotulliani Год назад

I will try this absolutely because I have the exact same problem. Thank-you so much!

@matthewf6631 4 года назад

Your videos are very well done and informative, love your channel.

@igorcabrera8123 5 лет назад

Master is somebody that make difficult things look simple

@watchandjewelryloft4713 7 лет назад

Ahhh gotta love these movements. I've seen some new movements behaving like this or worse and they were never dismantled. just from the factory running very poorly. Your videos are great. And the new camera is amazing!!

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Thank you :)

@harryhirsch3637 3 года назад

I don't have that problem but i always enjoy watching your videos and learning something new.

@JorgeCDiez 7 лет назад

Thanks for such an intersting watch information, Mark.

@philiporrow7906 6 лет назад

Really informative Mark interesting that the makers do this

@andrewwilson8317 6 лет назад

Thanks Mark. Figured I should sign up for the course and start learning properly than by trial and error. Looking forward to it.

@williamsavory5274 6 лет назад

man I see your comments on so many channels I have stumbled across, it's weird.

@andrewwilson8317 6 лет назад

William Savory that's the worst pick up line ever! Sorry dude, you not my type, happily married. Don't I've up though,plenty more fish......

@Dronetothetop 2 года назад

Wow absolutely mind blowing

@fLaMePr0oF 3 года назад

Wow, I'm learning so much from your videos, thanks, finally remembered to subscribe!

@jafferali2272 4 года назад

Thanks for giving this precious information

@joefagan9335 5 месяцев назад

Wow! What a detective. So informative and interesting 👏👏👏👏

@kamiljp87 6 лет назад

I noticed that too! I love these movements, I don't care. I love these tricks

@DD_850 2 года назад

Very nice video 👍🏻 Thank you for posting.

@sparkdog44 6 лет назад

Mesmerizing music....nice choice.

@MSGBlair 7 лет назад

Thank you for another excellent video!

@stevejhorton 8 месяцев назад

Wow! That was some interesting detective work. Thanks for sharing 👍

@Schrottkralle 6 лет назад

Good to know. I recently overhauled my original Sea-Gull pocket watch, taking pictures of each step during disassembling and re-assembling. I took a closer look at the particular picture, showing this part of the lower plate of the movement. I did not find any little bump or scratch, so I hope my movement was manufactured with a little more care and precision.

@TomTom-up1kz 5 лет назад

Very good job thanks for you keep moving 👍👏👏👏

@romanglick 2 года назад

Incredible. Thank you.

@chadddd4d 5 лет назад

Brilliant, Thank you !

@torello137 4 года назад

A wonderfully relaxing movie!

@famossfla 7 лет назад

Manufacturing bad practice gotcha's... Thanks for pointing this out Mark.. Great videos by the way.

@Josias647 7 лет назад

good

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

My pleasure

@Josias647 7 лет назад

Hi Mark. Sou brasileiro [Brasil] Sou iniciante e adoro a profissao. voçe poderia me ajudar indicando bons livros?(books)

@montre-moi 6 месяцев назад

Thanks! That was very useful and interesting!

@thriftshop2609 3 года назад

Excellent video

@carvalho5255 7 лет назад

Parabéns pelos videos, abraços do Brasil.

@TranDung-gg9dp 6 лет назад

Thank you so much !

@dantaylor1173 6 лет назад

I recently took apart an elgin pocket watch movement from 1897 and when I took off the balance cock while examining the plate I noticed 10 or 11 deliberate digs into the plate under where the balance cock sits, I wondered to myself why would someone do such a thing to a beautifully damasceened plate, you answered my question, thanks

@Amirshehzad7208 4 года назад

Very Good and help full videos for watch repairist thanks alot

@ibraheemmerchant262 7 лет назад

Thanks and it was really helpful

@jameslovie2260 6 лет назад

Superb video. Cheers.

@pieterjlansbergen6988 3 года назад

Very clever troubleshooting and fix. In Italy we say “you know one trick more than the devil”!

@MohammedAli-nu7fs 6 лет назад

Such a excellent videoo ..keep going sirr

@CVC-CSS 6 лет назад

Thank you, sir.

@liononline84 6 лет назад

wonderful information ,,, thanks for the video ,,,

@FloundersMindthots 7 лет назад

Funnily enough, I saw a blog post on this a while back. It had photos of big gouges in pocket watch plates, and explained that they were made on purpose to increase end shake. They were called "crow's feet" or "pig's ears" or something, and the more expensive solution was a shim made from gold!

@ishayauperelman8290 5 лет назад

Great video as usual. Thumbs up from me.

@hijack4661 7 лет назад

great video.Thanks!

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Cheers :)

@watchesaliswiss714 7 лет назад

thank u very much marc

@josevaldivia3796 3 года назад

Thanks !!!! from Morelia city México

@hamishspencer 7 лет назад

Another relatively cheap movement, the Vostok 2409, uses a shim and it works very well. Great video

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Yes - shims are used in a lot of old SU movements.

@CaptainXanax Год назад

@@WatchRepairChannel I worked in a service center for a very large luxury watch company, and we used shims still.

@cheesy4878 7 лет назад

Awesome video thx

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Thank you

@TheCryptoZoo 6 лет назад

very interesting

@berryj.greene7090 6 лет назад

You are such a wonderful teacher & maker of classy videos Mr Mark Lovic. Your hands are a wonderful gift too. Now if I try to do that tiny work, things ping off the tweezers and disappear!! I'd be interested to know what sort of magnification equipment you are using. Thank you so much for his. Excellent! Sincerely, Berry G

@tkhorn53 6 лет назад

Thank you...

@ptzish Год назад

Awesome trick. Thank you. I assume you could also just file down the balance shaft to achieve the same goal.

@Asrafulalomoli Год назад

Thanks

@AstonColey 5 лет назад

Brilliant Mark. I was not aware of this. One to look out for in future. I have also bout a clone seagull movement so will be checking that. Would you given more time shorten the balance staff equally at each end by a thou or so?

@IsmailShaikh-so6yg 7 лет назад

Sir, could you also do some 2789, 2836, ST96 and a few other services. Great work btw.

@jasonmorris2813 2 года назад

Thats definitely a corner clips so to speak on their part no telling how many ppl that has got. Thanks for your experience

@manciclon 2 года назад

Thank you for advice 🤔🤘💸🎓⌚

@artyshaw13 6 лет назад

Good to know. I was going to buy a seagull 1963 but not after seeing that. Love the videos. Keep em coming.

@crobulari2328 6 лет назад

Fine Mica Shim !. Perfect. Use Mica from a Mica transistor insulator. Carefully split it !!.

@crobulari2328 6 лет назад

Anyway we all have our tricks !!. Fine Video`s Mark. Thanks for showing us your expertise.

@Limou551 6 лет назад

Ist not a trick. Shims are in all books of fine mechanics and engineering .

@singaporehikers 7 лет назад

I have seen Russian movements using thin sheet "spacer" for that same purpose too.

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Yes - the SU movements are usually fitted with shims.

@Limou551 6 лет назад

An ordinary thing in the world of mechanics. However, I have a complain, wathc repair is very expensive....!

@gerikaroly 5 лет назад

I have seen Vacheron Constantin doing so.

@tobyflint792 3 года назад

Found one of these in a Zim 2602, it sort of fell out of the movement and i didn't really know what it was. Now i have lost it! Have noticed a lot of my 2602 lose amplitude when fully tightened by balance bridge! Now i'm off to make some scratches!!! I was also wondering if a correctly shaped piece of tin foil may do the trick!

@rpm1205 5 лет назад

It's cleaner and needier if you were to add a Dial washer underneath the balance bridge to give the lift that you wanted without scarring the movement plate

@Eldariooirad Год назад

With a quality movement, if and when possible, I rather move the jewels... I like your videos and your pacifying voice:)

@SqiroS22 4 года назад

Since you seem really professional and passionate for what you do I want to express my admire. Could you please let me know if this movement is at least basic lubricated? I have one from same manufacturer slightly different (6498 seagull) Mine is almost one year old installed in a parnis aviator style homage. Fairly accurate, can be adjusted easily I guess for better accuracy but I would really really like to know if it worths. Lubrication is important as I know.

@SkyfallLodge 7 лет назад

Fascinating! Could you show the proper repair of an end shake issue?

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

The point of the video was to point out a manufacturing quirk. It was just an interesting fault to find on a stock movement :) You would expect a watch out of a mass produced production line to have perfect end-shake, however, these are very low budget movements. As for proper repair? Well, the balance staff should be manufactured to the correct height in the first place. But if you want a most elegant fix you would slightly reduce the pivots and then re-polish them. This would mean a much lengthier job and so if it was a job for a customer then they would be charged accordingly, possibly pricing the repair out of acceptable economical boundaries.

@dynamicsinesdynamicsines1161 4 года назад

...& look at it go there after, though would this just wear away from the balance wheel & escapement vibrations in due time?

@polloloci21 2 года назад

Sounds like the “Ecco The Dolphin” soundtrack. Also- amazing root cause analysis.

@11spUDDy88 7 лет назад

Hi Mark, could you give me advice on what you think is best to use, a desk mounted magnifying glass or a head mounted magnifying glass? And also where I could buy either?

@Ecksterphono 6 лет назад

Shame on you for working on clone seagull movements ( lol just kidding) it's amazing that they are still serviceable. Good job in resolving issues in those.

@randynovick7972 4 года назад

I've been roaming through the back catalog and discovered this episode. What was the more desirable alternative solution apart from denting the plate?

@cody.meadows 2 года назад

Buy another clone for 20 bucks

@CaptainXanax Год назад

Using a jeweling tool like a Horia, push the bottom jewel setting out a few of hundredths of a mm. Authentic Horia tools and pushers are pretty expensive, but like everything else, you can buy Chinese versions that are just as good for significantly less. If you are serious about watch repair, a Horia tool is a must have because endshakes might need to be tightened, loosened, or an impact can cause a jewel to tilt in its hole and a jeweling tool will let you make it flat again.

@accuracychannel.7242 5 лет назад

My omega cons....n cal 1120 had an amp of around 220-290 which has dropped to 140-180, any thoughts?

@ChrisR 7 лет назад

I'm just curious...would the 'proper' adjustment be to dismantle the balance wheel and slightly shorten the pivot(s) to gain the necessary endshake?

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

That's one way. But as long as the conical part of the staff does not start to found the jewel setting.

@mahidudy4037 6 месяцев назад

exactly one of my 7s26 movment has the sam problem i tired to disassemble and cleaning and assembled again i will try this trick i hope it's workout 😢

@ccooper8785 Год назад

Fascinating ! I wonder how Rolex would deal with this on one of their watches....

@patrickburg8844 5 лет назад

Experienced watchmakers will call the divot on the bal. brg. a 'chicken peck'. I have found that many times on lower jeweled watches--The cheaper quality movement often meant the less money the owner could afford to have it properly serviced. Or, the 'botchmaker' got flustered & ran out of patience

@donghohieungo 6 лет назад

Wowww ! Which camera you shot ? Tks you !

@michaeljohnson-li5nn 7 лет назад

Hello Mark, would you class the small dot of material as acting as a shim to lift the plate. I work for Rolls-Royce aero engines and using thin shims is a perectely acceptable practice especially when setting up setting up machining fixtures. Finally, fantastic videos, it makes me appreciate my Rolex Datejust more than I already do!

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Absolutely - I personally have no problem with it but some watch repairers get the ass over this kind of practice :(

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

In an ideal world yes. But many repairs would price out the job for some customers so lets be real. To address using a Horia tool to adjust endshake - are you sure you are supposed to adjust the height of the incabloc, who taught you that? And slightly bending the bridge - possibly considered 'creating damage to fix a problem'? To expand on this - would reaming out an old pivot hole in order to fit a new bush be considered 'causing damage to fix a problem'? Right or wrong, watch repairers have been using this technique for probably longer than you and I have been alive, the purpose of the video was not to start a 'best practices' debate as nobody wins those, but rather to point out a potential pitfall for anybody working on these movements - a public service - maybe it will help someone :)

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

Karson Barnes absolutely. There's always going to be a high degree of polarisation in regards to opinions on repair options. For some watch repairers, it's important to try and keep the costs down for their customers. They don't want to present a £300 bill for two days work on a movement when the watch is worth considerably less (unless the customer wants a purist repair and is willing to pay for it). Another type of repair which causes similar controversy is using hole closing punches to rectify wear on a barrel bridge/barrel arbor hole. Often the bridge is too thin to support a bush safely and so the two alternatives will be to use hole closing punches or replace the bridge. I have seen some absolutely aweful jobs done in the past as far as looks are concerned but the watch runs well. Right or wrong - it's up to the owner as long as the watch repairer explains to the owner what the options are. I intend to show this technique in the future - it will piss a lot of watch repair purists off - but I believe watch repairers should be able to give these options and know how to perform them elegantly so as to provide low cost alternative repair options for lower budget watches.

@toyfjforty9686 4 года назад

Mark. thanks for your detail-videos... I recall watching ( 2~3years ago) about an hour long Unitas/SeaGull 6497 disAssemble/reAssemble video by you and cannot locate it... has it been taken down. I was getting interested in it as it makes for a better intro/learning experience using 1mm screwdrivers and tweezers instead of a HalfInch-drive socket set and Channel-Lock(tm) pliers ~~grin

@JimboJones2022 5 лет назад

I have an eta 2428 movement and it looses power reserve very quickly and will stop. I have to wind it and press in the crown 3 times a day. Any idea what it could be?

@TheJamesdavidmartin 6 лет назад

Do you find any truth in the rumour/observation that Sea-gull movements are shipped from the factory without lubrication? I fancy picking up one of these to drop into a NOS Unitas 6497 case. The supplier says they are direct from the Sea-gull factory.

@dcthomson12345 7 лет назад

Wow! Do you know how many times i've suffered this problem with these movements and never resolved it ?? Thanks so much for this, Mark. BTW, thats a 6498 (seconds hands at 6 o'clock), i think ? The layout of the wheel train and winding mech is different on the 6497.

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

The differences are minimal and the 6497 is more recognised due to the use in self builds (panerai clones for example). I have both here and you can still follow along no problem with either 6497 or 6498. I will do a detailed comparison video soon :)

@dcthomson12345 7 лет назад

Thanks, Mark. Just threw me for a moment and wanted to warn other people watching. Thanks so much for what you are doing, its amazing. I'll be signing up for Level 2 as soon as its done.

@WatchRepairChannel 7 лет назад

My pleasure - good call. And thank you :)

@TheBli7krieg 5 лет назад

Hello, watch noob here. So, I have a watch that has this movement I think. But, the hand that shows between ''-...+'' is little bit above of ''+'' sign. Is this a problem or wrong placement?

@scotth6848 4 года назад

Question: Does this problem suggest there is a mathematical error with the balance staff?

@jafferali2272 4 года назад

I have a mido powerwind in which the balance is not moving perfectly can it be the same problem

@Seftdelmer Месяц назад

I've had a couple of older movements that had either a paper shim or copper shim under the balance cock.

@rulo1791 Год назад

These types of marks on Chinese movements demonstrate the large tolerances with which they work, and for me differentiate them from Japanese movements in terms of robustness.

@mahmoudhajizadeh Год назад

👍👍

@frikintickin5183 6 лет назад

I found a shim under one recently (shim under balance cock on the WRT forum) and on one old pocket watch there was what appeared to be a bit of cigarette rolling paper! I'm guessing this practice has been going on since watches were mass produced.

@WatchRepairChannel 6 лет назад

Shims are quite common with certain calibres, for example the SU movements found in certain Sekonda watches.

@kikcodog 7 лет назад

I am just an enthusiast and out of curiosity I was wondering what causes this technique to be necessary? That is, which part of the assembly is off and how? Second, why do watchmakers frown upon this simple fix? Does it eventually no longer work? I think you said you've taken it apart at least 6 times so it took a lot of assembly and disassembly to break the fix and even then, only a second to restore it. So why the intense dislike of the approach?

@TheBubblegum54 4 года назад

Why don't you do what I do and adjust the shockproof setting height after removing the lump in the case

@dicklongmire6836 4 года назад

Can anyone tell me what parts in the movement set the beat rate between a ETA 2824-2 which beats a 28800 bph vs a 2846 which beats at 21600 bph ? Is it the balance wheel ?

@fredfarnackle5455 2 года назад

Very interesting, not exactly precision engineering but it did the job.

@carolcarola9719 5 лет назад

Would you repair or rebuild a seiko no 5 watch for a fee?

@igorcabrera8123 5 лет назад

What microscope can you recommend me for watches? Im not a pro.

@bryanflorenda6315 5 лет назад

Hi mark can you pls show us how to adjust the balance wheel of seiko 6309-7290 my watch is late 9 mins in 2 days.thank you so much.

@kcstott 4 года назад

what about lubrication? does the balance need or receive any lube?

@Iraqua 2 года назад

Hi my fri. I have a vacheron constantin geneve watch. It is old and does not have a number so that I can find its backup materials. I am missing two things. The first is Steam,and croun. and the other thing is the cross dancing in the face of the watch. How do I find her Steam? How do I know if it is suitable for her? How many types of Steam are there in the world of watches? Can we install any one? Or does it have to be specific? The other thing, do you think will prostrate to her cross dancing? And where can i find it ? And if I wanted to send you a picture of it, how do I send it? Thank u.

@coffeeisgood102 3 года назад

I think what I would have done is place a small washer over the hole. This would nessitate using a slightly different size screw, but I would find that more acceptable than messing up the plate. And I’m shocked that a manufacturer of any quality movement would resort to this method of adjustment.