How to Get Higher Amplitude from your Mainspring Barrel 

Hi Scottie, I am happy you are gettin what I’m laying down. There’s is so much more to go.

I agree with Scottie 100%!

Being compared to one of the top, three series of all time is quite an honor, but I don’t know if it’s deserved. But thank you all the same.

Hey man, I’m glad to here this format is doing it for you. These videos are never going to get big numbers but for the ones that just want to learn something, they seem to scratch that itch. Lots more coming.

You are too kind my friend. I appreciate you checking in Luke. Alex

Howard, thanks for dropping by and leaving me a short note. I know my videos are not for everyone’s taste so I appreciate your comment.

My pleasure! Thanks Phil

Well share how you did it.

Much appreciated!

Glad you like them Mr Parker

Thanks Brother.

Thanks Brett. I’m glad I can help.

Thanks buddy.

Your precleaning is on point. There really is no right or wrong way to do it just as long as you do, Right. I touched on mainspring lubrication briefly in the lubrication video, but, yes, I clean it first with the Watch paper, then a thin film with paper and one more to leave a fine film of the grease and that’s it.

You are welcome my friend!🤘

New mainsprings are the best option for sure. I hardly ever use my winder. It’s always great to see you in the comments.

I appreciate you John. Thanks buddy

Thank you sir, I have a 150 specific topics planed starting with the basics and building up from there. I am also going to be doing movement services and showing the adjusting and regulating process. Glad to have you.

Hey Billy, Good to see you again.

Well Brian, it is definitely great to have you. The videos I make I never going to get millions of years I know that that’s not what I do this. The purpose of this channel is to provide home watchmakers information that they don’t get anywhere else. These are topics that don’t have a high search but can save a new watchmaker a lot of time and grief.

You’re sweet.

Your awesome Boyd!

@@watchrepairtutorials Alex, I love the hair down! Other video ideas might be correcting the shape of hair springs, removing hair springs, cannon pinions (removal tools compared, re sizing, what tools to use, how much friction is needed). Fitting hands, sounds easy but tricky, which tools. Fitting poly crystals and the tools to remove and fit. Broaching (smoothing and cutting). Staking sets and what all the different stakes and anvils are for (I bought a vintage small set, I don’t know what most do, I have only tried it for making plate holes smaller, like for barrel, and resizing cannon pinions). Cleaning hands and dials. Polishing screw heads if you don’t have a lathe. Bluing hands and screws if you have no equipment, the minimum you need. How far you can polish chrome cases before you go through to brass. I’ll stop😀

@@boydsargeant7496 LOL I never know what to do where it up or where it down. Most of the suggestions are already in the list that I have which is about 150 different videos. Coming soon I’m going to be the calendar works, identifying movements and sourcing parts, and then the ultrasonic cleaning machine. Then I’m going into basic repairs including replacing all the crystals, casework, setting hands, luming and adjusting the size, and some others I can’t think of right now. I’ve got a whole series based around the escapement, Inspecting and correcting, Replacing all jewels, A series for the staking set, Everything that you can do with the staking set and what all the different stumps are for, with examples. And of course Hairspring work as well. Oh I’m also going to be working in full services, with corrections to get the Deltas low. Busy busy

@@watchrepairtutorials wow, yep, when will you sleep😂

You are so welcome!

That’s why I am doing this. Glad to have you.

Amplitude is a constant struggle. Everything matters

@@watchrepairtutorials Amen!

LOL, Thanks Harold. That's the very reason that I started the channel.

Thanks buddy

@@watchrepairtutorials I see that the Bergeon 30610 arbor holder comes in several different sizes - which would I need for working on wristwatches?

@@jamielodberg I use the 150 for most everything

What do you like them Andrew, seriously, I want to know.

@@watchrepairtutorials so I have the Daniels book and the Fried book. I have read them both many times. But the way you explain it just really breaks it down. Of course video form is going to always be better, but just how you are so easily to understand. Also I love the fact that you seem personable and that you talk like me. With cuss words lol.

@@Mechanics.Life80 LOL, well I had to stop the cussing for various reasons. Thanks, I’m working on smoothing out the delivery right now. Talking to a camera is not as easy as you would think. Hope to see you again.

@@watchrepairtutorials oh I didn’t realize you wasn’t cussing anymore. Lol. And trust me I’m not going anywhere I’m doing a deep dive on all your videos now. Keep it up brother.

The course is open for enrollment at two different two levels at a discounted price while I finish building it out.

Glad you like it!

I’ve done several videos pertaining to this subject. Here is one in sourcing watch parts, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-viq9-V1sv7M.htmlsi=2BpFVCF7d2DerYSA Mainspring sizes for movements are widely available online. If you can’t find a reliable source, here is a video on how to figure out the mainspring size on your own. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BEfB8ZWoeII.htmlsi=VYvA90B1PO-e_lh_

Thank you @@watchrepairtutorials

I do. I have just started posting my Master series videos to Patreon which will concentrate mostly on the escapement and the finer points of regulation. In addition I am in the process of adding in a private Reddit sub for members that will allow me to help members with issues they are having. Alex

Oh wow. Thank you brother, that means a lot. 😀

@@watchrepairtutorials the mainspring video was a big help still getting used to the tool

Hi Alex I am having issues of low amplitude it's freaking out my brain

@@reagannaidoo1981 well, you can start at the beginning and tell me everything you did through your service. It could be an issue in the powertrain or it could be an issue in the escapement.

I use my watch craft set for mainly pocket watch springs. What’s the problem with the arbor size on the Chinese winders, too small? Are they crass or steel ?

I have an old K&D winder that I use for pocket watches that works really well on the larger sized springs

Point me in the direction, I would love to see that.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BxpVygssz6w.html The hobbyist watchmaker Russian watch maybe a new vid It’s about 12 mins into the vid I like the idea of buying as needed from bourgeon 👍

Well Paul it’s like I said I typically use new main Springs but there are occasions especially in our pocket watches where you have to unwind the spring because the coil is too large for the barrel.

There is one brand of Chinese mainspring winders that do use steel for the arbors. I tried them once and I immediately returned them. They are on Amazon. Since then, I have been buying individual Bergeon winders and never looked back. I found that not only does the barrel of the winder need to fit into the mainspring barrel but the winder's arbor needs to be of the correct size as well. I learned this one the hard way: I bought a winder by diameter and whose barrel would fit inside the mainspring barrel, but the diameter of that particular winder's arbor was too small. So, I had to go back and purchase a nearly identical winder but one that was calibre specific.

@@tropicalspeed22 Thanks, I agree that it makes the most sense to buy the Bergeon winders and handles to meet your needs. As a hobbyist I don’t need a collection of winders to accommodate all possibilities- just a subset to accommodate my needs. And if those needs change in the future then I can buy new winders as needed. Quality always wins out in the end! Thanks!

I think you summarized it really well. That’s the main reason I use the WatchCraft set for a lot of pocketwatch springs, because the winding stems seem to be better suited for the larger inner coils.

That’s awesome to hear. Thank you for that. The size I use almost at the time is the 150.

Thank you and welcome aboard. When it comes to mainspring winders my typical advice is just put in a new mainspring then you don't need a Winder. If you're working on pocket watches, you can typically pick up a set of vintage pocket watch winders for a couple 100 bucks. Just remember that Swiss mainspring barrels typically use red or right-hand winders Japanese movements blue or left-hand winders. If you plan on working on Swiss and Seiko movements, then you need both they're not interchangeable because the hook direction is different on the Winder. In the short term, I would just install new mainsprings and not worry about using old mainsprings which is really the only reason you need a Winder.

@@watchrepairtutorials Okay, sounds like a plan. I take it all of the new mainsprings come in that packaging where you can just wiggle/slide/push them into the barrel.

@@perrybucsdad with the exception of some new old stock pocket watch main springs. The storage rings are too large, and the mainspring coil is too big to fit in the barrel.

I wish I had more people like you.😉 Thanks Tom

You are welcome. I hope you follow along through the series.

You're welcome Frank

I appreciate that my friend. It all adds up

Thanks Fernando, I have hairspring videos planned but they will be awhile. What exactly is the problem you are having ? The arbor vise I use most of the time is the 1.5 mm. This is the Bergeon 30610

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks for your answer. I am all thumbs handling the balance system (it takes ages for me to do it): Disarming the balance from the bridge and putting back together and of course fixing hairsprings, especially those with over coil!

It a Grobet model S300 Thanks Benoit

Thank you for your support, sir

Grazie per guardare il mio amico. Sei in grado di tradurre in italiano

Gracias mi amigo. ¿Cómo puedes entender lo que estoy diciendo? ¿Está utilizando los subtítulos para traducir?

@@watchrepairtutorials si, estoy usando los subtítulos, entiendo un poquito el ingles jeje, me gusta mucho el contenido que haces, soy un relojero cubano en miami. Que podrías decirme de la lubricación seca PTFE tipo epilame que usan las casas relojeras en sus muelles reales, e usado moebius 8200 a lo largo del muelle real y lo e limpiado a fin de dejar una delgada capa de esta grasa pero aun así no me convence del todo porque es una grasa que solo dura 3 años y puede crear vacío en las espiras del muelle real y perder potencia a lo que yo supongo.

Solo una historia rápida, hace muchos años viví en Miami Beach. Esto fue antes de que South Beach existiera. Nos encantaba ir a Little Havana y conseguir mi plato cubano favorito, Ropa Vieja. Nunca he oído hablar de que se aplique a un resorte de reloj solo en resortes de reloj y usan productos que nunca usarías en un barril de reloj. Los resortes reales modernos vienen con un recubrimiento de teflón y no necesitan lubricación, incluso después de la limpieza. El propósito del 8200 es evitar la oxidación o la corrosión, no reducir la fricción en el cañón. Solo requiere la más fina de las películas que no debería crear ninguna resistencia en el futuro. Cuando el resorte principal se enrolla, la bobina interior se enrolla en la siguiente bobina exterior y así sucesivamente para que no haya fricción en una cantidad medible. En un resorte real correctamente centrado, el resorte no toca la parte superior o inferior del barril, por lo que tampoco hay fricción allí. Si el resorte principal es cónico y roza la parte superior o inferior del cañón, ninguna cantidad de 8200 ayudará en esta situación. Espero que esto responda a tu pregunta, si no, házmelo saber y lo seguiré. Alex@@jorgeluislopezherrera4166

@@watchrepairtutorials hola, gracias por responder, jajaja si probaras la comida en cuba es aun mejor en los mejores locales particulares porque del gobierno no recomiendo nada, estoy de acuerdo en todo lo que me as dicho, te comentaba lo del ptfe o teflón ya que la mayoría de las cuerdas mas viejas están literalmente pulidas dígase diez, quince, o mas años, despreciando deformaciones de cualquier tipo en la cuerda y fatiga del metal seria bueno aplicar el teflón nuevamente ya que este incorpora las propiedades de lubricidad y protección contra la oxidación. Me e fijado que las cuerdas nuevas de rolex vienen con la delgada capa blanca de teflón que con el tiempo se va perdiendo por motivos fiscos como presión, enrollamiento y desenrollamiento, la estructura química de la capa que lo recubre, parámetros ajenos a la voluntad nuestra. Ahora parto desde el punto de una suposición técnica, que era lo que le comentaba del vacío de la grasa entre expiras ya que se deben despegar unas de otras uniformemente sin que ocurra una deformación que provoque fricción entre dichas vueltas o contra una cara x del tambor. Todo este tema lo planteo porque no me siento satisfecho con la grasa aunque sea la mejor opción, por eso quiero probar otros lubricantes secos con ptfe del tipo en aerosol o epilame que no dejen residuos grasos y obtener esa delgada capa sobre el muelle real esto lo probare en mis relojes personales y comparar sus amplitudes y sino funciona seguir como siempre. Llege de cuba como inmigrante hace 11 meses, en cuba bajo un raro caso se abría el barrilete por lo que si estaba dañado se remplazaba, ahí lo que mas se trabaja es orient, seiko y citizen grasas solo tenia dos que avia creado mi maestro pero no me gustaban pq se evaporaban muy rapido, asta que descubrí aceite mineral en la farmacia que no se evaporaba y obtenía amplitudes cercanas a 240 y 250 grados, el barrilete nunca se lavaba a menos que soltara su grasa por los apollos del arbol del barril. Yo tengo un citizen de 1970 que con estas grasa mineral lo que mas obtenía eran 256 grados de amplitud asta que llegue acá a los eeuu, y en el taller de mi hermano limpime mi reloj completamente, el barrilete solo engrase la pared donde desliza la cuerda, la cuerda la limpie y la monte, engrase con cada grasa que correspondía a cada lugar, contar que el apoyo del árbol del cubo en la platina tiene un leve desgaste al igual que en el pivote de la rueda primera del lado del piñón y perdía precisión de lado antiguamente con la grasa mineral y con las otras que avía elaborado mi mentor ni alcanzaba 250. Después de todo el servicio obtuve lecturas de 290 grados y estabilizo en 300 grados, ahi fue cuando vi la verdadera importancia de cada tipo de grasa, el epilame y la importancia de limpiar un barrilete antiguo. Si leíste asta el final disculpa por el texto, fue que me emocione jajajaja. y créeme en español no hay mucha información de relojería en américa. tu contenido es como un tesoro para las nuevas generaciones que se quieren formar y no ven posibilidades en ninguna casa relojera.

@@jorgeluislopezherrera4166 Parece que sabes mucho sobre este tema. Si conoce algún producto que pueda recomendar para la aplicación de teflón algo similar, por favor hágamelo saber. También me gustaría hacer algunos experimentos. Bienvenido a América hermano.

How much room do you have and what’s your budget

@@watchrepairtutorials My room is about 3 X 4 meters and I have 700€ left. I already bought the essential watchmaking tools like screwdrivers, tweezers, etc... But I feel like i'm not doing good because I can't study continuously for more than 30/40 minutes hahaha 😄 Thanks for answering me 🤜🏻🤛🏻

@@jesusm6759 the bench I sit at are made from 2 kitchen base Cabinets with in the US are 87.6 (34 1/2 inch) centimeters. Ones has all drawers, the 2nd is 1 drawer and a door for storing larger items. Then I have a 4 ft butcher block top on it. Any kind of top like laminate or wood can be used. Then I use an adjustable chair so that I can adjust the working height , so my shoulders are about the level of the top. This set up with all the storage from the drawers cost be about 300 USD

@@watchrepairtutorials Ok, I will try to find something similar, I think i'll get an adjustable chair first, greetings from Spain, thanks for your time and dedication, you're content is GOLD. Have a nice day teacher 🤜🏻🤛🏻

Thanks Hans, Glad it helps. I stated in my middle 20’s and am almost 63 now. So a few years.

Your welcome Fran I use 2 different ones. Kluber P125 and Mobius 8213. P125 has become a requirement for many Watch brands today and is slightly thicker or stronger than 8213. So I get a little more amplitude at a full wind at 0 hours. That should also give a little more at 24 hrs as well. With that said, it is like 4 times the cost of 8213. For most work though you should be fine with 8213, so that’s what I would recommend.

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks a lot, keep the great work up!!

Moebius 8213 is probably the most widely used

@@watchrepairtutorials Would Molykote DX also work? Since this seems to be metal parts sliding against each other.

@@illwill4544 no, it’s to thin and will cause low amplitude. 8213

8213 is fine. The Kluber is great and is what I use but it’s a little pricey. Lubrication is hotly debated. Remember you don’t need the BEST. You just need it to work.

No. It depends on what type movement rd you work on Swiss typically are right handed or red winders and Japanese movements are are usually blue or left handed

You can watch this video at about 8:40 on how to clean a mainspring. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W7LSPeUF1ho.html Once clean, you apply a small amount of 8200 to the mainspring and wipe off the excess. For a manual wind movement that's all the lubrication, but in a manual wind you need to apply a barrel grease like I do in this video. The mainspring in a automatic has to be able to slip around the barrel. this is all covered in this video.

@@watchrepairtutorials thank you. makes sense.

What are you confused about, the sizes for the 5,6 and 7

Not really. That’s about as inexpensive as it gets. Without the breaking grease, the main spring is not able to slip inside the barrel. This can lead to all sorts of problems.

It shouldn’t be slipping before 7 -8 revolutions of the barrel. Want to have some fun ? Install the spring dry and see how much amplitude you can get. That will tell you for sure if it’s in the barrel or somewhere else.

​@@watchrepairtutorials That sounds like a good idea, I'll do one more eval of the train and if I can't find an issue I'll go that route. Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate that you take the time to make these videos and then answer questions from us beginners.

The ultimate metric is how well it keeps time on the wrist. Wear it over 24 hrs and see how the accuracy is.

The Polinum is really just polishing and only removes superficial scratches, so no it not going to reshape the end. If you it’s badly scratches you can apply the either use a fine silicon disk and cut off a straight piece and come in from the flat side of the arbor, use a burnished or even square up a piece of peg wood and charge it with diamond paste

That’s actually a really good question. The issue with a standard pin vice, which is usually a three or four jaw, is that they tend to mar or put marks on the arbor, which is bad. The arbor vise has two jaws each being a half circle, so they grip the round arbor without damaging it.

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks for the quick response. Where could I look to purchase one like the one you used in your video?

@@wmueller0614 what country are you in Wayne ?

@@watchrepairtutorials I’m based in the U.S.

@@wmueller0614 here is a link. www.jewelerssupplies.com/barrel-arbor-holder-bergeon-30610-1-50mm.html I didn’t realize they are this expensive now. Maybe shop around.

How to Size Any Watch Mainspring to a Barrel ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BEfB8ZWoeII.html

They are actually Bronze. Bergeon 7421-PM-B5

@@watchrepairtutorials thank you Alex. I had narrow it down to either the bronze Bergeon 7421-PM-B5 or Brass Bergeon 7422-PM-AM Brass Tweezers which have slightly larger tips at 0.21 x 0.32 x 125mm. Any reason to buy brass over bronze or vice versa?

@@russellbiofish Well bronze is harder so It is less likely to need dressing as much as brass. Honestly there is not a huge difference other than that.

That movement deserves to fixed properly if amplitude is too low. That’s my advice.

@@watchrepairtutorials thanks

Amplitude is just how much the balance wheel rotates in a single oscillation.This is measured from the line of center. The line of center is an imaginary line that runs through the balance pivot, the center of the impulse jewel and pallet fork pivot. So a full circle is 360 degrees right? So if the balance wheel rotated half way around that would be 180 degrees, half the circle. When it rotates 3/4 around the circle that’s 270 degrees. What enables the rotation of the balance wheel is the available power after the escape wheel tooth runs across the pallet stone. This is called the impulse. So when we think of amplitude, we are usually thinking about the power that the movement has to rotate the balance wheel. Many many things take away from the available power coming out of the mainspring barrel and they are all associated with friction in one way or the other.

I think I just bought some assortment of brass stock from cousins. 2 or 3 mm and then just file a blade tip on on end. Glad to have you man.

In some cases, if the hole is not oval shaped you can close it with a punch.

There are a couple differences between a regulate pin vise and the arbor vise. The first is the shape of the jaws. On the Bergeon 306010, the jaws are half round, so they clamp to the round arbor with out leaving any small marks on the metal which would be bad. The second difference is that the jaws are locked with a sliding ring as opposed to a threaded screw to close the jaws. This enables you to install and remove the vise with one hand while holding the barrel with the other. For what its worth I use the the 150 size which works on most arbors that I work on.

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks. That all makes perfect sense. Of all the many videos I have watched, everyone else has used tweezers to reinstall the barrel arbor, but then again, most of them have also fumbled around a few times getting it reinstalled. As always, I learn a lot from your videos.

@@ScottSovereign just one more thing I would add. I also use the vise to hold the arbor when it needs polishing. It’s ability to hold the arbor tightly without damaging it is invaluable.

30610. They are available in different sizes. Are use the 1.5 almost all the time.

@It's About Time great, thanks that's exactly what I wanted to know

Bergeon 30610 #150

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks very much!

Good catch my friend. If you’re using a toothpick or anything, that’s tapered, you DO want to polish from the outside of the lid in. I can’t believe I missed that and you’re the first one appointed out so well done .

@@watchrepairtutorials I was almost going crazy with that. Thank you for your fast reply, friend!

No, it’s available all over the place. Cousins has it and a bunch of US suppliers.

I have a set I use for pocket watches that are great but the arbor is much to large for modern mainsprings.

LoL 😂 Now you know. It’s not the end of the world.