I like this channel a lot, i think it’s one of the better JCS clones but the guy clearly never edits his videos. Lots of vids have this as well as other errors that would be so obvious if he just went through the vid ONCE. Like flubbing a line and just keeping it in alongside the line redone
As puzzling and concerning as this case is, "Welcome back. Death, blood, hate, etc" made me laugh out loud. Under other circumstances, that's just hilarious.
there's a book idea in there where being a stalker proxy is an underpaid 9-5 job and the person doing it is just bored to death and only really does anything when they're being micromanaged by their boss and the rest of the time it's half-assed shit like this. also inevitably they start feeling something for the stalkee and trying to help or shield them from it or get back at the person who hired them in similar ways to the job they're supposed to be doing
Her backstory and some of her history leading up to this (being basically abandoned by her family, making up a boyfriend and faking his death, etc.) makes me think she desperately wanted attention because she was depressed and lonely, and this was her way to get it. I just think in the end she fucked up and accidentally killed herself. It was a cry for help. She just wanted her family back.
How in the world do you think she killed herself, pray tell? That she beat herself to a pulp to the point she was unrecognizable and was tied up in a fashion that she couldn’t have been able to get out of? That she DIDNT get out of. Come on.
@@PiXie232 "That she beat herself to a pulp to the point she was unrecognizable". That's very possible, yes. Also she didn't die as a result of not being able to get out, she died from the overdose of drugs she was given. Alternatively, she could have hired someone to do this to her assuming she was behind all of this. And while that does sound crazy you could argue that everything she had been doing up that point was and roping another person into her schemes isn't that unlikely. It's much more likely then the decade long stalking she claimed that would have had to involve dozens of people to even be remotely possible
@@criticaldrive97 why on earth would she go and hire someone to do all this horrific stuff to her? Now that just makes even less sense then any other issue that’s been raised. And yes, I know people are capable of doing that- (case in point, the rich lawyer, Alex.. what’s his last name, who shot his wife and son and hired a hitman to “kill” him) but the police would have eventually found proof of someone who was helping her in that regard if that WAS the case. Which is extremely unlikely and even more unbelievable.
@@MrsBeBe-de1xx Was coming here to say the same thing she willingly broke her own nose, branded herself, and starved herself all to give the impression that she had been kidnapped.
No matter the situation, I feel for Cindy. Whether she was doing this to herself or there was a genuine stalker, something ruined and ended her life and that’s super sad. Plus her friends and family never got closure. I still hope she’s resting in peace now 🕊️
I seriously think that this is a case of mental health illness that should of been spotted when cops didn't see evidence, clever enough not to use handwriting, but impo, the illness should of been really focused upon when she had gotten much better when in controlled hospital and watched always, I believe all the medicines found also showed when not supervision wasn't there she stopped and again the stalker arrived again..no matter what she died, killed? But a mother lost a child and so to father,family members to...ITS NOT THE COPS FAULT BECAUSE THEY AREN'T MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS AND DIDN'T SEE THAT EVERYTHING HAPPENED WHEN ALONE. WHAT WASN'T REALLY TALKED ABOUT OR CLEARED, THE HOUSEMATES OR THE RENTERS...ITS SAD, MENTAL HEALTH PLACES WERE IN MOST STATES IN AMERICA AND BASICALLY DOWN TO NOTHING REALLY. ON DIFFERENT POINT ALTOGETHER PARANORMAL INVESTAGATERS HAVE BEEN TO MANY OF THE HOSPITALS AND ITS LIKE ONE DAY EVERYONE JUST LEFT, THE ROOMS AND BEDDING ALL THERE SOME OF THE MEDICAL STUFF INCLUDING MEDICINES ETC...I WATCHED MANY MENTAL HOSPITALS BEEN WALKED THROUGH AND IT'S VERY EYRE....
It was her ex husband Roy.. I have researched this case a lot, and I don’t know why people are still even questioning this. He got away with murder, and tarnished her reputation in every sense, making everyone think that she’s been completely mentally incompetent, when she had multiple witnesses many times to the horrific things she endured.
@@PiXie232 You are INSANE. This lady is CLESRLY behind 90% of these scenarios. Look up histrionic personality disorder , because that is definitely what is at play here
@@Bynxandethan I’m well aware of what histrionic personality disorder is- I minored in Abnormal Psychology, majored in Microbiology. I’m also very familiar with this case. Are you? Or is this the only video you’ve ever even seen on it- let alone done any further research on it- articles, case files? Btw, you don’t need to be jerk and start calling me names because you don’t like what I said. It’s extremely juvenile.
@@PiXie232 I've seen much more about this case than this video. The evidence that she did all of those things to herself versus someone else did it to her is not even remotely close. She's clearly very mentally ill and attention seeking. And I called you insane because it's EXTREMELY messed up that you are on here spewing that garbage about her EX he has been falsely accused and harassed!! If anything , he's a victim in all this. Its obvious! Wake up!
Its also hard to believe the "first attack." The fact that she had this stalker and was so fearful of him makes me wonder why she would answer a knock at the door without trying to see who it was first.
@@bri_guy508it couldve been someone she knew and also the police didn’t look super hard so I’m not surprised they didn’t find anything from the stalker
@@averykmae didn’t look very hard? They had patrols around her house and were tracing all the calls. They definitely were looking, she was just a liar.
@@ghoul9022 she was also in therapy around the time that hypnotherapy and recovery of 'repressed memories' were in fashion (for want of a better term). Its seems likely to me that she had some childhood trauma, compounded, or even worsened by, ineffective therapy.
I've heard this story a few times but this is by far the most in-depth and non biased version I've heard. I actually couldn't recognize it because it's always been painted she was a murder victim and didn't go into her "fake" stories. Great job!
@@hannahwilliams5681 look into histrionic personality disorder and munchausens, I think those pretty well describe how she could have been responsible. And believe me, I am a huge advocate for believing people's symptoms and experiences but sometimes this really happens and in this case, it's the only logical explanation. I think she was very mentally ill and was both taking advantage of and greatly being taken advantage of by the men in her life, all of which should have recognized that she needed help.
This really all begins with the first fiancé that she would never say his name to his family but before they married he has cancer and commits suicide? That was mysterious as was everything that followed. I think it is strange that zero evidence was ever found. All signs point toward her being the one to do this. Either way, it is ultimately sad she never received the help she needed when it would have made the most difference. Thank you for covering this.
Dreading! I would absolutely love to see a video from you about the Bjork Stalker! His video diaries of his obsession with Bjork and how he documented his whole process is both frightening and intriguing. I think you could tell his story very well
I actually remember seeing part of that. I remember seeing him video tape himself killing himself. It was super creepy and somewhat traumatizing to watch.
This is extremely unsettling. Everything about it is odd. The deceased fiance, the questionable timing of nuisance calls, the cop leaving his wife, the covert wire tap on a stalking victim, the tandem offenders, the overbearing ex, the cut out letters...so in fairness to her family and friends I would certainly be sceptical about Cindy even before the 'attack' in her garage. Had it been occurring now, I'd be checking Cindy's online footprint for fake Facebook profiles before I did anything else. I think she was a very poorly lady who never received the treatment she desperately needed. I believe she fabricated the majority of the incidents, but can't say that she was aware of her actions.
@@allissonjacobisaacson6190 exactly. It is a rare phenomenon but does happen - I'm also concerned about the involvement of hypnosis and therapy at a time where false memories were created and mistakenly thought to be repressed memories. Given this and the childhood violent relationship with her father it wouldn't be inconceivable that she fabricated stories and eventually presented in adulthood the earlier splintering of her personality. Its a sad case, she really did seem to be genuinely tormented.
I really don’t think she was aware of it if it was her doing it. I just can’t imagine someone who became a nurse to help others would purposely waste the police's time and resources. When dreading said how mush it cost to investigate everything, my heart sank. It’s heartbreaking to think of how much of a difference that could’ve made for other cases if this was all just a cry for attention.
I think people underestimate the lengths pathological liars will go to get the emotional response they want from people, just how much they're willing to lie about and how deeply they lose themselves in their fantasy.
Yes, if you have ever known someone faking a relationship or ailment online that fiancé story sounded very familiar. It’s common on certain parts of the internet for someone to fake the sickness and eventual death of themself or someone they love. There is always a complicated reason why nobody can visit them in hospital/see the fiancé, then when the story becomes too big to handle, they collapse it with “they died”. It’s called pseudicide and ppl do it because they want people to care about them and give them sympathy. In most cases it’s very sad; sometimes the people who do it are malicious, but that’s rare. If you look at the stories of people who are compulsive liars, as well, you see people arguing that something happened even when there is clear evidence it did not. Then they come up with a convoluted theory as to why the evidence was planted, or the video of them placing the note was faked, etc etc. People will absolutely look you in the eye and swear blind that something you know to be false is true. Not out of malice, just because they are wired that way. I really feel for her because she was clearly in deep distress. She clearly did not WANT her life to be like this. It’s heartbreaking that her situation ended in death.
@@linpittsburgh2375 absolutely agree! And often times when they find a story that hooks people in, they just keep repeating it over and over again (faking pregnancies, relationships, stalkers, abuse, etc). It's very sad, she clearly felt an overwhelming compulsion to do this and to continue doing it. I personally think her motivation behind the final unknown event was to prove everyone wrong, have people feel guilty for not believing her, a sort of "I'll show them" attitude. I don't believe she was delusional/in a state of psychosis or unaware of her actions.
@L In Pittsburgh my only experience with pathological liars is narcissists, so there is malice in their outrageous behaviours. Its hard to tell if this case is NPD, but borderline personality disorder being mentioned does make me wonder if she was leaning on the narc side. The way she went after her ex when he cut her off and didnt believe/support her anymore? Trying to get him into trouble? Very recognisable narc behaviour. Its great that most pathological liars youve met have no malice. However, bigger picture i wouldnt, couldn't, label it as "most dont".
Its obvious she was behind most if not all of these events, and the fact she presumably killed multiple cats just to make it seem like she was being stalked by some crazy person? Insane.
I'm going with mental illness. I have bipolar and do some strange shit when I'm manic and dissociate. So having another person in you is believable. I just don't want to believe she's capable of hurting animals. The most info on this case by far. Great job 👍
I have Bipolar2. And CPTSD....I do some odd things. Spend money. Dont eat. Rush tok much, manic behavior doesn't quite equal complete BPD. ...or the things that make one violent or dissociative. Its too bad they couldn't look at her brain, back than it wasn't a thing....like today. They might have seen something idk maybe they did.. tumors even benign ones can cause a lot of strange behavior..
I have watched probably 10 different videos about this case. There was so much new information that it actually felt like a new case. This is one of the biggest reasons that this is the best true crime channels on RU-vid, no gimmicks, no forced humor over topics that are not at all funny (that really ticks me off), it is just a boatload of facts told in a clear and compelling way. Even when, like this one, I have heard the case before, I still get excited to see a new video is up because it is going to feel like a new story to me. I have been a voracious consumer of true crime since the 80's, I have curbed my consumption of late for a few reasons, but the copycatting across videos and podcasts was getting bad. A new doc drops or a larger creator does a story and, all of a sudden, it is absolutely everywhere and the only thing that changes is the identity of the creator regurgitating the exact same facts, sometimes, even the same mistakes. I know that is to be expected in some ways, but you generally bring more obscure facts and, for example, Sword and Scale focus on telling the story in a more immersive way and really focus on the victims and their lives. At one time, I watched and listened to over 60 hours of true crime a week and now, I can count on one hand. I said all of that to say this, for folks like me, the genre is on life-support because we have either seen it all or it is presented in a boring or offensive way, your channel is a breath of fresh air, even if it does smell like decomp! 😁 Thanks for another great video and I truly appreciate your hard work!
I completely agree with this - when I watched the video the other day about the NFL player, which I have seen countless times on other platforms, I still watched knowing that there would be new information, a more thorough analysis, and a more in depth discussion about the case. This is definitely my most preferred source for true crime content. The work that goes into the cases must be colossal, but the proof is in the pudding. Just superb from start to finish. I hope he can keep the channel being sustainable for his income so we can continue to enjoy it, because the quality is just so good.
What I DON’T understand is that even before caller ID, everyone got a phone bill and all calls would still be logged by AT&T or by one of its subsidiaries at the time, even if the phone call lasted for mere seconds. If the police couldn’t trace the call until a certain amount of time, the phone companies still had records. I remember seeing these bills and the times, even if they were mere 10 seconds (or less). Every call was tracked. I am mystified why some of this couldn’t have been cleared up by that alone. If there were NO calls on her bill, then there was never a call received. Thank you for your work and I am curious about this.
What would be documented on a phone bill would be *placed* calls that incurred a charge (so presumably almost exclusively long-distance calls) or *received* calls that incurred a charge to the recipient (collect calls). Right?
It’s an unsolved mystery, but can you look into the murder of Adrienne Salinas? She was abducted and murdered in 2013 in Tempe AZ. I went to school with some of her friends and the case has not gone anywhere in 10 years….I hope she will find justice one day
One of my favourite things about your channel is that the way you speak is so calm. You don’t ever laugh or try to hype anything up with over the top expression, you lay it out as it is so respectfully which I honestly think is how all true crime should be presented
Anything is possible, but I think a big clue was that when she went to the hospital her injuries didn't match her stories. This is likely psychological. But I do think she was suffering.
She was on her own for the first time, going through school. She might have been very stressed out and wrote about a "fiancee" as a way to distract herself, or get validation. People have made up worse things for less 😕
i noticed that the first time she was on her own, she told her family about a mysterious fiancee. very shortly after she divorced and began living on her own, she began telling people about an invisible stalker. i wonder if any of her therapists ever delved into that
@@viderevero1338 um people don't beat themselves up stab themselves inject themselves with drugs and lay in ditches naked in freezing weather because they're bored. she obviously is behind all of this but it was very clearly severe untreated mental illness with people feeding into her delusions making it worse and ultimately leading to her death.
I think it's probably likely she experienced some traumatic event(s) as a kid. The family just upped and moved to France without her feels a bit telling about the relationship although I could be reading into it. She made up the original story about the wonderful fiance and whenever stressed it triggered something and eventually she became her own stalker. In the end I feel it's highly likely she drugged herself and some random thug may have beat her for kicks or she somehow beat herself up idk. Wild case, just wild.
i love this dudes voice and commentary. Other channels talk straight to the interrogation, but your insight is so well spoken and well thought. Thank you for posting!
Yeahhhh this is a weird one. Speaking from my experience with DID (disassociative identity disorder) things kind of made sense to me. The way she was supposedly diagnosed with the disorder-- a lot of boxes are checked off. For example, the way she experiences amnesia is a common symptom of the disorder, although not everyone with DID experiences this (or experiences it to a different degree.) DID is still being documented and studied, but what I do know is that its the result of severe trauma. It manifests as a coping mechanism. So if she was abused as a child, (which I believe to be true the way she guards herself by lashing out during conversation), her brain would have been structured to block out large chunks of time. I believe her "stalker" was her attempt at a cry for help and attention, mixed with a bit of delusion. I also know that the symptoms of DID (blocking out large chunks of time, coming to your senses and realizing you are in a different place, etc.) come out to play during stressful times in one's life, as that is how their brain is structured to deal with stress. I think she was mentally ill and did not have the language to describe her experience, or the supports that she needed to lead a healthier life. I believe everything detailed she PERCEIVED to be really happening to her, and I don't think that she thought she was lying. OF COURSE this is my speculation, I'm not a professional or anything and the disorder is not so cut and dry. but her experience somehow made sense to me under these circumstances.
with d.i.d. being a coping mechanism in of itself, i don't see an alter intentionally doing this amount of harm over such a long period of time since there wouldn't really be a purpose to it.
@@radioreprise that's a good point. While the disorder may play into details about her life, I don't believe it's the whole picture, because she wasn't showing up as completely someone else.... hmm keeps me wondering.
So how would she just “dissociate” the calls that the police were secretly tapping that came from the outskirts of Vancouver?? But they were too short to track? She couldn’t have faked that.. there was multiple times that there was multiple witnesses that saw instances that happened later on in her house- when she got broken into, she couldn’t have faked that. This wasn’t a case of a mental disorder whatsoever. She didn’t just murder herself. It was physically impossible how she was found.
I'm curious if you happen to know if someone with DID could willfully plan around witnesses being there. Meaning, would she have been aware of planning the incidents when no one was with her? I'm wondering if the men's boot that was found on her was part of her cover-up, but then things took a turn and she died before she could finish her plan.
When people tell consistent lies, I take it as them describing how life feels to them. Has my brother really had that many fist fights and won them all? I doubt it. But he grew up with terrible abuse and he will always feel under siege. It's more a myth than a lie.
I think she might have faked the first fiancee as to show her family, that she had been holding up well and better off without them (since the history of s.a. commited by her father and brother). But one think that strikes me as very odd is her ex husband, who was a psychologist not noticing how mentally unwell she was! How did he come up to speak about the assaults and her trauma only after she passed? That is so weird to me. Someone could have taken advantage of her faking some of the stalking, and then took the opportunity to kill her. I guess we will never know.
I mean it's clear that Cindy had a proclivity for lying, especially when she felt she was neglected or abandoned, but someone had to call the hospital she was in, someone had to be the man her neighbours saw both at the beginning of the story and after the fire, someone had to place calls from the outskirts of town that were too short to track. Plus, I've always found it extremely difficult to believe that the way Cindy died was self-inflicted. I think she really was a compulsive liar, and certain aspects of her story were probably unintentionally fabricated by her as a desperate subconscious attempt to garner more attention and sympathy to her situation, but the stalker did exist and did eventually end her life. It's the only version I can wrap my mind around. If she lied intentionally, why would she describe an attack that was inconsistent with her injuries? A nurse wouldn't make such a mistake.
I just cringe so hard thinking of how much money was spent on this case in a country where Native and other minority women go missing constantly and no one gives a f.
Yeah… but this woman was probably mentally unstable or even ill, the police could have directed her to a mental hospital( her ex husband was even a psychiatrist, so he should have been able to recognize her problem and help her with solutions). This front of actions was clearly unhelpful, and the money allocated for her could have been used to help others in more vulnerable situations, and she could have received the help she needed in another way
anyone who can write a 6-page thesis outlining everything someone they've been accused of stalking could have done to invoke the wrath of the mafia is, at the very least, incredibly desperate
I don't normally comment on videos - but I have to say that you did a phenomenal job with this one, truly. With all of the information presented like this, I think I would have to come to the conclusion that she was her own stalker. "Victim blaming!", I hear you say, and.. well, kind of, but she's not the villain in the story either. She seems like she was a flawed human being, like the rest of us, who was surrounded by people who failed her, or at the very least, hindered her. It started rough, and went down hill. Her father specifically, but her mother and family MOVING? Just straight up leaving the country, excuse me, what?? I try to imagine that nowadays, and I can't say I wouldn't be intensely hurt, or how lonely she must have actually gotten. Being lonely is kind of a meme on the internet, but I don't think a lot of people actually understand just what some human beings will do, just to connect or touch another human being. I would think that a fair amount of people got a taste of this feeling during The Great Lockdown of 2020 (is this what our future history books will refer to that as?), but we, you know, had the internet. That's.. a kind of connecting. Cindy James didn't have that. She had.. and I don't wanna offend anyone with 'strict' parents that "turned out fine", but, she didn't have a great childhood, and she's basically just on her own in this place, and then boom - a break in psyche? The whole story with the fiancé, did she deliberately make that up, knowing it for a lie, and presenting it anyway? Or did she battle with DID, before we knew what DID really was, and no one realized it, because they assumed she was just a lady havin' some hysterics? But, I digress. I enjoyed this one a lot, but noticed that you did not seem to have a very strong narrative opinion, so I'm just curious, was that intentional?
Great comment. I believe her experiences were self-inflicted, but the hog-tied detail bugs me. If she had no memory of much of her "harassment" then of course she thought someone else was doing it. She was beautiful, intelligent & very ill.
A someone who knows a mytomanic irl that would take physical actions to keep their stories in check, all the "bizarre" happenings around her makes total sense. Even the beating of herself is possible but i think she didn't expect it to end her life.
agreed, i very much appreciate the attention to detail! ive seen other channels cover this case and the way they leave things out such is so frustrating! it feels like they just want to make a "spooky mystery" video instead of tell the true story. when all of the facts are presented, the picture is a lot clearer
I don't understand how she could have caused the countless injuries on her body prior to death? That's so weird to me. I can't help but wonder if someone HAD stalked her but was able to get away with it. 🤔
Maybe if she was so drugged up on morphine she didn't feel the pain when she hit herself? Could be why she took so much, so that it wouldn't hurt to injure herself. Maybe she thought that these levels of injuries would finally lay the question of "did she do it to herself" to rest. Also, if the needle was found in her own bedroom it pretty much proves she did it to herself. At least the drugging part.
@@ladyreverie7027 there’s no way she took a lethal dose of drugs, beat herself senseless, then hogtied herself. It’s just not possible. Unless she hogtied herself first which would be even crazier
Even if it seems so plausible that it was her, I cann’t get that idea out of my head, spécialy with the proof that they were phone calls, that her friend did see someone running away after the fire… If there was a real agressor, it is so horrible and sad to think nobody beleived her, even after her death…
@@ladyreverie7027 Kind of reminds me of the psychotic twins who ran onto the road, got hit and badly injured by a car, and then just got up and, unphazed, put up a massive fight with first responders. Mania or psychosis can sometimes make people do horrendous things to themselves.
Yeah, it makes no sense that after being “attacked” in her garage, she told the police that she recognized them but refused to say who they were. Then she goes back to acting like she doesn’t know who’s doing this to her?? Then she wonders why the police didn’t take her seriously. And how could her family think the “stalker and killer” was her ex husband when police already proved it wasn’t as he wasn’t even in the country during some of these “attacks” and when they were following him, they saw he wasn’t contacting some accomplice either yet the “attacker” was contacting her during that time too? So yeah, either she had a real bad case of split personality ( as there is at least one case I’m aware of where a woman had it, was stalking herself, and did kill herself by lighting herself on fire) or she accidentally killed her self and all this was for attention. Either way, I think she did have some really severe mental illness and her therapist was not a very good one as they missed it. TBH though, I am leaning towards the rare split personality as her case does have an awful lot in common with how the woman who burned herself alive acted. Just my opinion though.
You should cover the kyron horman case! Young child disappears from school in Portland Oregon. His parent last saw him walking down the hall to class but kyron never made it to the classroom. The FBI quickly got involved but couldn't find anything or any sign of him. It's been a somewhat cold case for nearly a decade with no solid leads. Step parents have acted sketchy but have been steadfast in their innocence, no one knows what happened, and there's been no leads.
Yes, I live in the area where some of the family live. It was a big deal here. I still occasionally see posters. Kyron was so little. It is heartbreaking that there hasn't been any closure.
@@ImLunaShesZeta I'm local to the area, too, and Kyron was my own child's age. Everywhere we went we scanned faces looking for him, before the spotlight was on the stepmom. My heart still breaks for little Kyron. He would be 20 years old now.
Great upload ONCE AGAIN! Thank you for taking the time to make these videos for us, we do greatly appreciate it a lot. Also, I was wondering if you could do a doc on the Columbine HS massacre that happened in 99. (I’m not sure if you’ve done it, I haven’t watched all your videos, yet!) But, if you haven’t, I would recommend it. I have watched many documentaries on it, but I feel you’d do it more justice. Specially with the victims!!❤Thank you for reading my recommendation!❤ Stay hydrated and fed! 🫶🏼
I was just diagnosed with borderline personality disorder 😬 I've suffered from mental illness most of my life and have been given other labels but this one seems to fit all "the things"
I have a good video in my randoms.. for bpd..its the last video in my ramdoms..I'm sure u will find it insightful..💛 made me understand bpd loads more than anything else.
She 200% did it to herself. After 7 years of constant stalking with 0 evidence of someone else doing it, it’s definitely her. Probably felt neglected as a child, so every time she needs a fix, she stages an event to be the Center of attention. Killed herself on accident when she went too far with the staging
Please cover the Oscar Pistorius case! I'm from South Africa and he was a hero to many of us. The case became huge and his trial was streamed on its own TV channel.
My question is how do people think she killed herself in that manner? I don’t know whether she was to blame for the rest or not, but I cannot believe she could have acted alone in her final moments.
Exactly. She didn’t kill herself. It was physically impossible for her to do so, yet the police decided to write it off. Her ex husband got away with murder.
@@PiXie232 She had a needle mark in her so it sounds like she injected herself with morphine and overdosed. She was suicidal and having delusions and she committed suicide. What there was hard evidence for was that her ex husband was not in the country, not in contact, and nowhere near the crime scene.
Didn’t it say she had been hogtied in one of the previous stalking incidents though? Personally I don’t think the stalking was legitimate, so if we’re going off that logic wouldn’t it be possible she could have injected herself and tied herself up? I’m not saying that to say you’re wrong, I obviously don’t know either, but I’m leaning more toward she did it to herself
@@PugginNThuggin how would one hogtie themselves up? Seriously though- how would you go about doing that? The reason why so many sadistic people who rape and murder people use this form of bondage is because it’s not something that people can get out of- which in turn- logic would dictate that they couldn’t tie themselves up like that in the first place.
This is the most detailed and informative version of this story that I’ve heard. I still don’t know what to make of her death but it certainly seems that it would have been nearly impossible for it to have been a suicide yet the stalking was likely her mental illness. Did she somehow talk her ex or someone else into helping her commit suicide? If so they’d have to keep her secret or be arrested. Finally, as always, I have to point out that your voice reminds me of Tina from Bobs Burgers. Awesome job!
Hello, and Thank You for covering this. It's a very Disturbing Case to me. I'm familiar with it, but happy to see you covered it! And I've never seen pictures!
I can’t imagine being through all that for people to think that I’m delusional and mentally ill. I know it sounds impossible but everything was clearly real for her. All im saying is, if you have family who said that they’re not safe, you have to be there physically to make sure they’re alright no matter what.
good god.. this lady had people around her every step of the way. police patrols outside her house, people living with her, a private investigator focused on her, escaping the country to stay with her brother, stays in a mental hospital.. yet every time it stopped, she pushed them away and the attacks began again. what else on earth was anyone supposed to do for her??
Haven't started yet, but thank you so much for covering this case; I already know you'll do a great job. When I first learned about this - from a book written about her by a co-worker of my dad - the internet barely existed; there were so many things I couldn't visualize but had nothing to go on but the text and the few photos in the middle. It will be interesting to get reacquainted, and learn if there's any new theories or info since the early 90s. Thanks for what you do, and congrats on the well-earned growth. ✌️🍍
Poor precious Gabriel still haunts my soul. He tried to get help, he spoke up but no one helped him. Even seeing his marks of torture and STILL no one did anything. So sad.
After watching a doc about a kidnapping that police called a hoax and ridiculed the lady for wasting their time, but then it turned out to be true, i think it’s important to understand that maybe even what feels unbelievable could still be very true. Police losing faith in Cindy is frustrating. Maybe the cops didn’t do their jobs good enough.
this is what I always think about. How much of the story are we missing bc the narrators (the cops) are unreliable? This was clearly written using several sources, but again--the Canadian police aren't any better than the American police, they're just a different flavor of bastard. I can understand why dreading mostly left this up for our interpretation bc what we have to work with remains inconclusive. There's only one or two things that jumped out as me as missed leads and even then
@@nicki0kaye agreed. It goes to show that cops aren’t infallible and will make the wrong decisions sometimes. We forget they’re just people with their own bias and sometimes that gets in the way of investigations and can potentially further harm victims. I can’t stand that we’re supposed to put our full trust in an institution that can cast so much doubt on a case like this and not always be held responsible for that.
It makes absolutely no sense for this to be true though. Her story changed multiple times, her family found stuff she used, nobody found any evidence of a stalker.
If she made it up, then who was the man that her neighbors saw when she was at the first house? Who was the man seen when one of the fires was started? Who was making the telephone calls? The fact that they were too short to trace doesn't mean that it was her, unless she had 2 phone lines in her house. Who spray painted the area around where her body was found? As someone intimately familiar with drugs, if you shot up 10x the lethal amount of morphine you'd likely die before you ever took the syringe out, much less be able to hide it somewhere. This is even more true considering she had benzos in her system. Benzo and opiate/opioid combos are one of the most common causes of overdose. How did she get from her car to the house where her body was found without anyone seeing her? Unless she took the drugs orally there is no way she could have taken them and then walked a mile to the house she was found at. How did she end up bruised and cut up? If she was doing it herself, but during some sort of fugue state, then how come it never happened in the other country? If she was doing it, there must have been some stressor causing her to have these episodes. I still don't know how she could have faked a phone call without a second party. If there was someone actually harassing her, I would guess that they likely had a police radio or scanner, which would explain how they knew when the police were watching her house. The person probably enjoyed watching her look crazy to everyone. Even though the end result was very different, this case reminds me of another one that happened in the 2000's (maybe early 2010's?). I'm going from memory, but I believe it was in Washington state where this family started receiving harassing phone calls. The person would tell them what they were wearing or what they were doing and would have knowledge of conversations that took place in the house. The police got involved and they discovered the calls were coming from the daughter's cell phone. It was then thought that they were doing it to themselves. However, it was eventually discovered that the person behind this had spoofed the daughter's number somehow. There was even a point where they had a discussion with police in their house and the person then called up and played back a recording of what was said in that discussion. The harassment eventually stopped, but they never found out who did it, why, or how. I think some people find enjoyment in scaring others and watching the result of their harassment. There would be a certain power in it.
What a mystifying case! I’m going to lean towards the mental health theory. I believe that she was likely tormenting herself, though it’s entirely possible that someone could have been stalking her and only doing some of the things that she said happened. I don’t think she was alone when she died as it was said that she was hogtied. The knots were apparently examined by an expert who said that she couldn’t have tied herself up.
The most unbelievable part of this is that there was no evidence of a stalker left behind. Even for the limited forensic technology of the time, that's just ridiculous.
Why is it unbelievable that there were no trace of a stalker?? Because there was none. This was a mentally ill woman that made all of it up.There never where a stalker, she was never beaten by 2 men who raped her with a knife and they put all 4 hands around her throat and they hogtied her. The police found that the story she gave them did not line up with the evidence. Why?Bc she did not have those damages on her body. And yes you can hogtie yourself but she lied over and over again during several years most likely for attention sympathy, empathy. But to come up with the idea of lying to the police about her having a stalker that according to her, tormented her for years. Of coarse the police would have found something if she had been truthful. But she was very sick and it all had a tragic end.
@@Charbear25 They actually had someone recreate tying themselves up exactly as she was found and saw that it was totally possible. She died of overdose.
wonderful video as always, thank you so much for your hard work and willingness to take on any case. This one was a such a surprise--I've never heard of this case before, tho I'm so very familiar with its beats--be it from the media it inspired or just the general cycle of violence, paranoia and 'hysteria'. I don't believe it's a fair assumption that it had to be the same person over the whole of her ordeal. It makes more sense to me that it was a combination of psychosis on Cindy's part and one if not several instances of an opportunist taking advantage of a pre-made victim. I'd believe that the early years were entirely her attention seeking/untreated mental illness, but it really only takes one sadist hearing about her situation and exploiting it to result in her death. She under played the situation to others but didn't keep it a secret. Also, if she's got DID, there may be people she was associating with while in duress/disassociating/in an altered state that were never uncovered in the investigation bc the front facing Cindy was not aware of them. (edit) This is also assuming the opportunist wasn't a cop with knowledge about the case, which, considering the type of ppl who become cops, is not far fetched. My speculation here is all way more wild and conspiratorial than just 'lady was not well, and made very unwell choices when left alone', but I'm very curious what the evidence would show if someone went over it with the assumption that someone could have come in and out of her life, allowing her psychosis to mask their presence, and/or that someone could have simply swooped in at the end for an easy kill. That angle may not uncover anything, I just find it faulty to assume it wasn't possible and that it Had to be one person and one person only, the whole time, no exceptions. (edit) also if an outside party would have been able to find evidence of cops being bastards. Ultimately, from my unprofessional opinion, the most realistic answer is (edit) either the cops took advantage of her or that she was trapped in a cycle of abuse with herself, and that it was a form of suicide, though its clear that she had long lost control of her thoughts and actions. It's so damn sad that despite all the help she was given, she still could not escape and ended up losing her life. I'm left wondering why she left treatment when it was her safest and healthiest time, but there's obvious reasons, most notably the idea you aren't a fully formed person if you rely on others or require constant support and care. I don't know enough about the Canadian medical system to comment on the financial or political aspect, but they may have been a factor too. I also think its hilarious that the only woman who was asked about her in a professional sense was like "this is the most obvious horseshit I've ever seen, y'all are just blinded to it bc you want to bang her". THAT more than anything makes me think Cindy was staging it all. That's not a GOOD reason to believe it, its just something I wish was more explored bc there is a HUGE gender aspect to this that simply would be invisible to most men ESPECIALLY at the time. How much of it was an act tailored for male attention? How obvious would it be for another woman--who has been encouraged in similar ways to play to and attract male attention for her own safety and security--from the outside looking in? It's interesting! and sad. Very sad case. All the effort put in (we are told) and no conclusive answers.
There's a 90s film called 'Don't Talk to Strangers' that starred Rebecca DeMorney and Antonio Banderas. Rebecca's character was a celebrated psychiatrist whose specialty was Multiple Personality Disorder (now known as D.I.D.). She meets a guy (Banderas character) and she starts getting stalked. Her cat was killed and she was physically attacked. She started to think that it was him, because he would leave town and she was suspicious. Come to find out, he was undecover and he was investigating her. He believed that she killed his partner. He realized that not only did she kill him, but that she was the one stalking herself and hurting herself. She was sexually abused by her father, whom she was still in contact with. He blamed her mother's death on her when it was him. She started splitting personalities then. Once the mom was out of the way, he began to heavily sexually abuse her. He came to visit during the middle of the film and the "attacks" on her became worse. In the end, she used her father's gun to kill Tony (Banderas character) and used Tony's gun to kill her father. She played the victim. She shredded the surveillance tape Tony had of her stalking herself and then acknowledged that she did know his partner and she killed him. She knew that she suffered from DID and being a famed psychiatrist and writing a book on it was her cover. I know this is a lot, but this story reminds me of that film (one of my favorites). During the dissociating, she didn't know what she was doing but when she was in between personalities she knew and she covered her tracks and was hiding in plain sight. Those who dissociate can be very aware when they're doing it. They can't control when it happens but they know when they've split. Not everyone...but many people with DID are very aware. This lady most certainly suffered from a personality disorder to some degree.
There's an old quote: "Crazy, not stupid." I have a lifetime of experience, personally and professionally with mental illness. It's challenging to ascertain this case as it is in retrospect. Today there is more knowledge, yet acceptance is still moderate.
Quite often when we imagine hog-tying it is from movies and tie-down roping events. I don’t know how tight (or loose) her bonds were. But it is actually possible for someone to do these things to themselves if they put their mind to it.
This is legitimately one of the most inexplicable cases I've ever seen, every angle I've tried to look at it with is full of details that just don't add up. I definitely don't buy that she killed herself, suicides don't come with their hands bound. Someone had to be on the other end of the phone, someone had to have tied her up. But whether you think that was at her behest, or they were genuinely stalking her, no matter how you look at it, there's always something that doesn't fit.
Not necessarily. There was a suicide case-- Barry Sparkman-- where the victim staged it to look like a murder, complete with the use of rope and writing to make it look like he'd been attacked. It's not impossible.
If you do a RU-vid search on “how to hogtie yourself” you can see a few different ones on how it can be done. Sadly, I think Cindy had a very severe mental illness, and whether intentional or not she ended up taking her own life
There are a couple of problems with those ideas: 1. Experts carried out experiments to see if it was possible for her to do that to herself and at least one (maybe even 2) concluded that it was possible. 2. She had access to the medication. 3. She could have, and most likely did, call herself from another phone. There are several recordings, all of which sound obviously like a woman trying to disguise her voice. I'm not sure what else doesn't fit. The police, her ex, the psychiatrist, and her own PI found absolutely nothing. Even the fire in the home was shown to have been set from inside.
I remember this airing on unsolved mysteries. It's just a bizarre situation and I think she did this to herself whether it was some type of personality disorder or a munchausen syndrome or whatever it's sad. I guess back then they couldn't find record of incoming calls??? I mean I'd think her phone bill would list where calls were made and came from
I think she was struggling with some sort of Cluster B personality disorder, probably Histrionic or Borderline. She seemed very desperate for attention and it’s crazy what lengths some people will go to to get it. I’m skeptical of the Dissociative Identity diagnosis because episodes like this didn’t seem to happen until she was mid-adult (I forget how old). Unless someone knows of DID being triggered by a nervous breakdown or something?
Yeah it’s gotta be a Cluster B. Dissociative Identity Disorder is something you have to have had since childhood. It’s believed that because very young children (as in between infancy and age 10 or so) are still developing and don’t yet have a concrete sense of self, if someone goes through extreme, prolonged trauma, they’ll become unable to form one coherent identity and instead branch off into having multiple identities for different situations and purposes.
i agree, most likely histrionic. im borderline and we do attention seek but its in a much more covert or angered way. not saying everyones the same just in my experience. it seems like her life revolved around attention which seems more histrionic than borderline imo.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 it can be formed at childhood but it doesn't have to present at that time. Some people don't manifest obvious symptomology until adulthood, so it is possible it applies to Cindy. Whatever the issue, its sad she didn't get the help she needed.
@@hollies5841 what you said. DID absolutely forms during childhood but can be "hidden" from both the person with it and those around them until adulthood
No matter what happened in this case it is a sad one. It is much easier to believe this was all her doing, and if it was, there was definitely severe metal illness at play here. It is sad that she suffered so much regardless of if there was something else at play or whether it was all a cause of her own self demise. It is obvious she was suffering all the same.
small but important correction; it's disSOciative identity disorder - "disassociative" means something different and has nothing at all to do with dissociative disorders
There seems to be two options: A: There was a stalker who left no evidence when calling, sending notes, breaking in to her house, leaving dead animals and meats, sometimes daily, for 7 years. She moved 4+ times, had police surveillance, wire taps, a dog, renters living in her basement, lived with a cop, lived wither her ex-husband, had a private investigator with an 24/7 open radio and no one was able to verify any of the stalkers activity. The stalker was also able to attack/abduct her multiple times in the middle of the day to only partially injure her and just leave. Also there were two, possibly more, stalkers and she knew who they were but wouldn't name them. All of this just to mess with her, but not kill her until the final incident. B: She made it up or caused it herself through mental illness
Love the channel keep it up dreading! I would love to see you cover the Chris watts case. The interrogation in that case is fascinating. Would love to get your commentary on it!
Id be interested to see your coverage on more unsolved and more mysyerious cases. The cases that dont make any sense to anyone, are the most fascinating.
I think Cindy was unwell. My heart hurts for her regardless of what happened, and her loved ones. This is a terribly sad case, one I'm familiar with, but this is the most detailed covering that I've come across. No surprises there, as Dreading always gives 110%.
This one was a wild ride. I believe this is my first time hearing of this person. I was confused pretty much the whole time and when I thought I had it figured out, something else would occur that would make me question it. Throughout the first portion, I thought she was making it up/doing things to herself. As the story went on, I began to question if any of it was true and if so, who was responsible? I’m still left wondering if some of it ever actually occurred or if she was just in an incredibly altered mental state. And maybe I’m way off target here, who really knows, but I kind of feel like, for whatever portion of it IS true, someone in her family had something to do with it.
Tragic regardless of if it was self inflicted or not. What confuses me is why Roy was so convinced that this was somehow the Mafia. He seems like he was genuinely trying to help in the beginning so I feel like whatever he suspected must have been at least somewhat relevant.
Whether she did this to herself or she had a stalker, I feel sorry for her. I'm leaning towards "she did this herself", but regardless, I hope her soul is at peace. Can you please do a video on Asha Degree? She was a little, 9 year old girl from Shelby, North Carolina who went missing during the early hours of Feb. 14, 2000. There were a few sightings of her that night, but no one has seen her since then. Her family said they discovered her missing by morning when it was time to wake the children for school. A few of her belongings were recovered from a nearby forest, but that's all police were able to gather. Her family has never stopped looking for her, and it would be great if you could use your platform to help get more coverage on the case, because there's definitely more to this.
I think she probably had Histrionic Personality Disorder - She craved attention and validation, and she was willing to do anything to be the centre of attention.
Thank you for taking on this confusing case from my city. It's not straightforward because Cindy may also have mentally disturbed people in her life. But I think Cindy was behind the vast majority, if not all of these incidents. We should remember she was a nurse, and had the technical information to fake injuries. And I say that as someone who has been stalked twice. It's tragic she never got the help she needed. If this had happened in 2024, video cameras and GPS technology would have quickly proved what was happening.
Incredible story. Nice work with this deep dive. I'm familiar with the story but you always find so many details I've never heard. I wonder if she had dissociative personality and didn't even realize what she was doing. Also, if you're taking request, maybe consider Jesse James Hollywood and the murder of Nicholas Markowitz, which inspired the Alpha Dog film.
Hi there I am a new subscriber from the UK. Your work, research and compassion is a breath of fresh air. The stories you tell whilst harrowing are explained in a way which always respects the victim. Well done @dreading .. should you want to, there are two cases from the UK which your viewers may find interesting. I will email you what I know .
Wait, so.. you said she got a call while she was in the hospital, right? And the nurse confirmed it was a male voice (at least not obviously feminine/a woman faking a male’s voice)? How could that be possible if she was faking it all? I am totally confounded by this case, I can’t believe I’ve NEVER heard about it before!
The call to the hospital wasn’t specifically about Cindy, it was about the hospital’s security. There’s no proof that the call was related to Cindy’s case.
@@leesigalaxy While the hospital phone call wasn't specifically about her, the police traced the harassing phone calls coming into her home back to the outskirts of somewhere (can't remember which town they said but it wasn't coming from close by or inside the home), so she couldn't have done that... I wonder if it was the original cop... as he would know how not to leave evidence, and as she was a nurse he may have seen her and become obsessed at work, cops having more occasions than most people to be in hospitals - just pure speculation of course, but one thing we have learnt about stalkers since then is how incredibly devious / cunning they are. Either way, it's incredibly sad if she WAS killed by a stalker that so many believe she did it all to herself.
I watched this story on another channel that believed all of her stories. I could tell from the beginning that this was something that Cindy did for attention. As she aged, folks may have told her that few middle aged women were attacked and stalked like that. I can only imagine that right before the end, she might have realized people were on to her.
@S A I was offering another possiblity to add to what POSSIBLY (still very low chance) could have happened to make the calls make sense. I don't believe she had an accomplice. I think it was a mix of a stalker and her own mental delusions, most likely.
Lauren, do you really think that she was telling the truth and the police was so dumb and lazy and therefor could not find ONE single evidence that would show that she was not lying?? She was very mentally ill and she invented all of this for attention, sympathy and empathy. When she did not get any more attention about the calls she would step things up until she finally stepped too far. It is a very tragic case.
Borderline Personality Disorder / Histrionic Personality Disorder (co-morbid, maybe?) would explain everything that happened without the need to do mental backflips, chase 'ghost' stalkers or ignore some of the facts to form a reasonable picture of events. BPD & HPD are both highly disassociative disorders (so the person wouldn't have a continuous memory / narrative of their lives). This would result in confabulation (making up what they *think* happened, & legitimately believing it); regrettably to the people around that person, confabulation is indistinguishable from gaslighting. BPD & HPD are also highly attention seeking; however BPD is more prone to seek 'victim' status - the preferred attention has an element of sympathy. This often results in self-harming behaviour. Allegedly around 10% of people diagnosed with BPD eventually commit suicide - though whether this is actually the intent, or the result of 'cries for attention' which accidentally go too far, I don't know. BPD is associated with something called 'Talionic punishment' too - basically the biblical 'eye for an eye' concept. This means that if the person with BPD perceives that another has hurt them (I.e. Will no longer engage in a romantic relationship with them - even if the pw/BPD was the one who left!); then revenge & punishment will be somehow inflicted on that person. Seeking to 'frame' an ex for alleged stalking + attacks would absolutely fit that bill. Abuse in childhood is usually a prerequisite of a BPD diagnosis, too. I'm afraid I feel more sorry for everyone around this lady, who got sucked into the drama. I'm sure she was originally a victim herself - but regrettably that's true of many people who have committed horrendous acts throughout history. When you subsequently victimise others, you surely lose the right to claim 'victim' status, yourself.
You guys did an excellent job on this case! I’ve seen it covered before and this is by far the best telling. Whether she did this herself, which is what I lean towards, or someone did this to her, I truly feel bad for her.
Really great job, Dreading! I'd never heard this story before and it was amazing and fascinating! I appreciate your objectivity and plan to look into this case out of curiosity. Here's a suggestion for the most bizarre criminal case I'm aware of: Brian Wells aka The Pennsylvania Pizza Bomber. This case is a wild ride! Secondly, the often overlooked case of the disappearance of Skye Metawala, the young boy who vanished one day in Seattle.
The Skye M case is one of my pet cases. He doesn’t get any attention either, which is so frustrating. His mother is obviously behind his disappearance, IMO. I would love to see a deep dive on him.
I’m not sure exactly how I feel about this case, but I do know one thing: it is INCREADIBLY strange that a woman who was afraid for her life and believed she she was being stalked would rent out part of her house for strangers to live in.
I love your content so much, you're my favourite creator. thank you ❤️ Ps around 45:20 you repeat a phrase twice - not a criticism, just wanted to help your editing process 😁 if I see you fix it, I'll edit this comment
I think things starting up again after she started a new job is one of the biggest indicators that it was Cindy who did this. I did initially think it was an officer, but hearing more... It seems the stalker really didn't have a motive other than to scare her and be a nuisance. I think I've heard similar patterns in other cases where the perpetrator was proven to be the victim. Similarly, her keeping the nylons around her neck when getting them off would be the FIRST instinct of someone who had nearly been strangled doesn't make sense unless they were for show. However, hearing her past history of trauma, it does sound like the therapy, inpatient program, and not working for a while REALLY helped her, and getting a new job was the stressor that tipped her back into whatever strange coping mechanism all this was. It's honestly sad.
Hey Mr. Dreading! I enjoy your channel, your videos are well done and respectful and I appreciate how you cover cases. If you could, would you mind looking into/possibly making a video about the murder of Holly Branagan, a teenager whose life was taken in Bethlehem, Pa in 1979. I often hear my parents talk about it because it happened right before they graduated. Thanks again for everything you do!
