100% agree about the weird tendency for people to be insulting towards collectors. These people try and force their values on others, its so exhausting. Mind your own business!
Fun video! I would like to say, as the owner of thousands of books, people are constantly telling me that I should get rid of them, because I will never have time to read all of them. So, it's not just games. (Although, people say the same thing about my games, so...)
I agree with Jeff 100% about getting into other people’s business. I am fairly new to the hobby (almost 2 years) and getting into it brought me so much joy so I grew my collection fairly quickly. Every time a friend or family comes to my house they comment about the amount of games I have. It got so bad I started to feel ashamed. Then I realized it is my collection and my own money I spend and I will not be ashamed of my hobby 😊
I realized lately that is probably because they take a lot of place. I talked about my games to my boyfriend recently and asked him do we have too much? Do we play enough? Etc. And then he said to me « how many unplayed video games or unread books you have? Do they bother you? No just enjoy your fun and your game » and I was like : man he is so right. I don’t justifie my video games collection, my movies collection, etc. Why do we need to justifie our board games? Yes they take place, but it’s my home let me be! So enjoy your games Paulina played or unplayed just be happy about it ☺️🥰
@@Sarah-wn8kzSteam library. I have lots of people in my life that have commented on my board game collection and every time I will say: “oh? I have too many board games? How many games are in your steam library? How many unplayed?
Love this topic and you both nailed it. One of the main reasons I really enjoy your channel is you tell it like it is. I always enjoy your down to earth relaxed view of the hobby. You never seem fake or rehearsed. Thank you and keep up the great work.
This video felt very therapeutic for Jeff and I’m here for it. Totally agree, so many people in the hobby want to yuck your yums. Have fun. Enjoy what you enjoy. Awesome stuff
3:01 - I would 100% recommend giving Spirit Island another shot. I am still relatively new to the hobby, I had to watch a few play throughs after I was like “this Isn’t any fun… how can anyone enjoy this…?” I like that it’s difficult to win. I enjoy the fact that there’s a decent chance I don’t win, it makes when you DO win all that much more satisfying. However… that all being said, it’s probably not for everyone, it’s not a casual 45 minute game. All of your decisions matter. I also like that the solo experience doesn’t deviate largely from the co-op experience.
Thank you so much for your comments about collecting and culling! I have a lot of games, they bring me joy. I don't feel bad about that! You nailed it, thank you.❤
As someone that has hundreds of books, people do ask why I have so many books that I have not read. I get the same thing with board games although I don't own nearly as many board games. I totally agree with you on this, Jeff. We as a species need to stop getting involved in other people's business.
I really appreciate your perspective on following the rules. I'm all about following the rules, but I know I've made mistakes with rules, and it's not a big deal. If we realize partway through a game that we've been playing wrong, we just decide in the moment if we keep playing the wrong way or if we start playing the proper rule.
Haha to be fair, there's a difference between making comments where they are invited, and barging in with hate when someone is just trying to have a good time. For example, I think some games are way overproduced in a way that is unnecessary - I'll share that opinion if asked, but I won't seek out a video of someone unboxing a game they are super excited about where they are just trying to share their joy and make a comment about it there, because that would make me - in Jeff's words - a dink.
Loved this! I have to answer the question "Do you even play all of those games?" all the time and the short answer is "not very often" but they make me happy. I think that is why I was so drawn to your content from the start because you are both so open about just loving the hobby how you want to and being genuine to who you both are. I loved Jeff saying "thats about as spicy as you will get from us" lol it was a very Canadian level of spice and it was wonderful! Thank you for all the amazing content! You guys were the reason I started in this hobby and I've never looked back!
Jeff's rant made my whole week. I feel like this about so many things- this gatekeeping around hobbies just isn't okay. Let people enjoy what they enjoy, and you enjoy what you enjoy- and as long as they aren't hurting anyone, let people do the stuff they like, in the way they want to! I have a huge collection of books, which my family especially are always criticizing me over- but each of those stories mean an awful lot to me, and shaped who I am in their own way, and looking at the shelves makes me immensely happy. On the flip side, I only have a small collection of board games (mostly due to space) and the amount of board gamers who will say 'Ergh, you don't have 'X' game, clearly you aren't a 'true' gamer' is so frustrating. Basically, what I'm saying is you can never win- so just do you, and be kind.
Loved this video! One thing to add on overcompetitiveness: it also detracts from the fun of some games when you're trying to do the absolute most efficient, optimized way, which may not be the most fun and doesn't let you try new and different things
_"Argh, the 'optimized turn'!"_ 😅Good point, Jeff, about how over-competitiveness may be the root of all evil in boardgames, from AP even to having the "right" kind of collection. In the immortal words of our saviors Wyld Stallyns, "Be excellent to each other."
🙌🏻Such a great discussion!! Yes to all ranty points holy crap agreed!! None of this matters and people are ridiculous sometimes 😂 you guys are amazing, much love
One of the things I like about those who are willing to make these videos, not just yourselves, is that I get used to their individual preferences and, even when they are not keen on a game, I can still decide if that game is for me. I also love the games I own that I have not played yet. Opening them, the smell of them, popping out the cardboard pieces, enjoying the artwork, looking forward to the day I bring them to the table, not fully understanding all the rules yet but gaining those moments of understanding that come with actual game play. They also look great on my shelves along with my unread books. Love your work.
Great video, I really enjoyed this. Even though it pains me slightly every time Jamie says she dislikes Agricola, or that you two don't like The Crew, I totally get why these games are divisive. I'd never hold it against either of you, let it influence my opinion of you, or make me want to meet you or play games with you any less. Especially after hearing Jeff's little rant about letting people enjoy what they want (which was my favourite part of the video), I just wanted to say I agree 100% with everything you said there. I think a lot of people who criticize or gatekeep others for this kind of stuff are either A) unable to put themselves in other people's shoes, or B) insecure about something in their lives that potentially relates to what someone else is doing, and they call people out to try to feel better about something they don't like about themselves or their own life. I know it's easier said than done, but when people give you a hard time about owning too many games or not playing a specific popular game on the BGG list or whatever, try not to let it bother you or let any doubt creep in about who you both are what you bring to this hobby, not just as content creators but also as gamers and as people in general. You don't owe anyone an explanation/justification for why you do what you do, and nothing anyone says should discredit you for one second. Keep doing your thing! P.S. Loved the Friedemann Friese & Cosmic Frog shoutouts. I'd play those with you ANY time. Also, if you ever decide to part with Fast Sloths or see another copy for sale at a reasonable price somewhere please let me know! I've been trying to get my hands on that for a few years. - Carlo
I think because y’all come across as so relatable and chill it’s sometimes easy to forget how smart you are. So many game RU-vidrs wank so freaking hard to show how smart they are and y’all hold it down low key. Respect.
14:49 Now that, imo, shouldn’t just apply to board games but to a lot of everything in general. Loved that rant.. reminded me why I’ve removed myself from most social media platforms.
@@JeffAllenHammerDune: Imperium was part of my worst board gaming experience - but I view it as less due to the game itself and more due to the group dynamics within the group I was playing it in - and the things that happened that day.
“Cute Horror” - Have you all played Dungeon Pets? Not exactly the same, but cute monsters! Pushing theme boundaries/weird. Have you seen Dungeon Degenerates?
As someone with a large collection I usually end up teaching the game. That has effectively ended my "competitive side" that I had before I started buying and teaching the games myself. Like I'm not going to sit there and teach everyone the game, only to pick what I know is an optimal strategy and crush everyone else. I play in a way where I feel everyone has the best oppportunity to have fun, be it that I play the hardest race/character, pick a strategy I'm not familiar with myself or play (just a tiny amount) kingmaker where you try to keep the game even to a point. The whole purpose is to have fun, not to win at all cost.
I loved this. Someone said this was therapeutic. Agreed! Plus it’s a great conversation piece. I’m going to bring these questions up with my husband. It’s like 20 Questions. Love it; keep this topic/content in your schedule/calendar for the future, Jamie. Thanks for the video.
I'm into minis because they weigh a bit more and they don't fall over as easily as standees. But that's about it. The art on the standees of Wonderland's War is definitely great. Lol.
Thanks once again for the video! I didn’t know there was these issues in the hobby. I have really lucked out with the groups I’m gaming in or hosting. Gate keeping nope. Cult of the new /old . Didn’t even know about that concept till 2 weeks ago. 90 percent of our gammers watch RU-vid and dig deep into presenters archives to look for some hidden gems. We also watch many many videos on the new stuff and get those too. I have not even hear some one mention culling till this month. I was in response to my budding addiction to learning new games. The shop I purchase from asked how I was doing for space . I said I’m ok I’m putting the ones no one wants to play in storage bins in a spare room. We enjoyed a good laugh, as he is a collector and I had a huge list of game s to get by the end of the year and just finished it. We support each other’s ambitious collecting and I have a bad habit of wanting new games to punch out all the things in the box. Nerds supporting nerds and their games. Zelda - hell ya open world quests and exploring and killing, I’m in. No app please and bring it to retail. Thanks for the balanced few points.
The rules checking and competitive gaming was totally me and my brother 😂. Now though we have matured and moved past that phase. I play to win, but I find losing to often be more substantive than winning. Mostly I enjoy talking about the game with my brother after the fact and we discuss strategies and mistakes and all of that stuff. Thats the best part now in my opinion; not gatekeeping strategy and tips but giving eachother tips.
Jeff I’d love to hear you rant!! YES, DON’T yuck on people’s yum! I love cute, light to mid weight games, such as chai, azul, potion explosion, hive, carcassonne, etc. My wife and I stopped going to board games night at our pub and even our local board game store because of elitist board gamers making me feel like I’m not a “real” board gamer!! I want to play with others, have a dedicated group even, but whenever I consider going again I just don’t want to deal with the elitism, which feels like it’s getting worse. For example, despite my father and siblings being good chess players I just can’t seem to play it, but I love hive/abstract strategy games. I also lose a lot at games, but I don’t care if I’m having fun and “real” gamers have literally said to me I don’t know why you play board games, you’re so terrible. How f-ing rude!!
Ha, Spirit Island is a top 10 game for me, and me and my kids love the crew (mission deep sea). I started out with a bunch of coop games and SI came after my regular group was well versed in them (Pandemic, BSG, Shadows Over Camelot, Gloomhaven all came before SI)
Great discussion! Thank you for your willingness to put yourselves out there. Really appreciate the opportunity to understand where you are both coming from in regards to this hobby and the experiences that you have had within it.
I rarely get expansions unless: I don't own the base game and the expansion is a complete game. I will also get one if the expansion is for a game I love to play and only enhances the main game. Dice Throne got me to buy all of the expansions because of the additional games that allow me to switch out characters and play that they offer.
It seems like the more I play games, the less I care about winning. I’m more interested in trying different strategies and exploring what the game has to offer. - - I have no interest in space games or (most) IP games either (Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Marvel,….). I don’t watch a lot of movies, so I don’t really have a connection to most of those themes. I love real world themes like history and nature, although I agree that nature has really been overdone lately.
Wow, I agree with everything that I hear in this vid. Now I regret not interacting with you'll at BGG Spring. I look forward to having a chance to meet you'll in the near future 😊
Based on the answers to your questions, I feel you should try and look at Unstable games. Specifically, Tic Tac KO Cute vs evil, Happy little dinosaurs and Here to Slay. They all are card games, like yall said you liked. They all are fairly easy to pick up and play. And are small boxes you can fit on your shelf. I'm just giving you a suggestion, not YOU NEED T PLAY THEM OR IM UNSUBSCRIBING! im just giving a suggestion. I think your favorite would be Tik Tac KO! Just a suggestion.
Don’t hold back, Jeff, tell us how you really feel, lol. Great vid, agree with everything. Thank you for doing this. My biggest issue is HGE ( heavy gamer elitism). Also, while I watch them all the time, Tom Vassel/Rahdo/insert popular tuber, their final opinions on games are not the edicts of the gods.
I’m not going to touch on any creator specifically, but I will agree with you on the HGE statement. I adore heavy games, but I also adore cute light games. And I’ve seen first hand the BS Jamie gets for liking the games she likes (and she also loves heavy games). It’s for sure a problem
Hey guys while watching your video an alert came over my phone for an upcoming game that might fall under Jamie’s category “cute scary”. It is called Apothebakery - The Culinary Alchemist by Tabletop Games. The pictures of it makes me think of Jamie having a stuffy of a character or item on the shelf behind you guys. Thanks for all your videos! I cannot wait to show my mom this video so she knows that it is okay for her 41 year old daughter and family to have over 200 board games 😂 Keep on keeping on! Love ya guys!
Great video! I like hearing negative things about games. Not that the game sucks, but it can get tiring to always hear creators love everything. Watching you guys vent lets us get to know you guys better. It's a glimpse into your personalities. Also, in defense of keeping games, I can see treating a game like an old photo. I may not play it anymore, but when I see it, I'm reminded of what was going on in life, who I was playing with, or my experience when I played the game. So it's a matter of memories, as opposed to "I have 100s of games cause I can".
That’s right mind your business and let me enjoy my stuff. I have a lot more games with minis than I need and more on the way than I can paint. But when I finish them damn they look good. Keep up the great videos. Final girl is one of my faves excited for season 3!
I agree with your take on competition in games. I hate it when I teach a game and I win because I feel that other players won’t enjoy the games as much. But then, my buddies told me, don’t worry, I expect losing my first game. It is a reason I will want to play again if we had fun. So I guess it is also a group thing.
The "optimized turn" person immediately sours the exploration aspect of board gaming. Learning over time feels good. Being told what to do every turn for reasons you can't understand does not.
This is the board game video I didn’t know I needed! Jamie, I am in the same boat with expansions. I almost never use them, but I feel like I need them. 😅 Also, please consider putting “None of this matters, we are adults playing with toys “ on a shirt. 😁
I play with some very competitive gamers who are also gracious, good sports and always willing to teach. I also know what you mean about “need to win” players who will ruin everyone’s experience. It’s the person, not their competitive drive that is the problem.
Never knew you guys had tried Spirit Island before. So sad to hear your opinions since it's easily my 1st or 2nd favorite game 😂 Horizons has some good spirits to start out on. Hopefully that will give a better experience. I'd just say when you try it again, try to use the innate powers that each spirit has to combo with your cards, and it should be easier to beat and more fun to play with trying to figure out the card play
Love this video! It’s a great way to showcase that every gamer has their own tastes and know what works for them ❤ and that’s great! So many options out there for every type of gamer. I’ve learned I’m not a campaign game person 🤷♀️ To each their own!
This video was great! Really thoughtful. I totally agree about gatekeeping, let people enjoy games how they want to enjoy games. Also I really thought it was interesting what you said about overcompetitive people. I recently came to the realization that I really don’t care if I win, I am more interested in the experience of the game and the moments when something truly memorable happens. We were playing So Clover recently, everyone had absolutely awful combinations and yet somehow we ended with a perfect score. Great job guys!
Why do people hate on board game collectors? They are helping the economics of the hobby by buying stuff making stuff exist for the people who have time and the group to play them.
Absolutely loved this video. U 2 are such "real" content creators. Love how you speak your own truths unashamedly. 💯 percent love your authentic content.
I am just here to praise the preaching section from Jeff, my man was cooking right there 👏👏👏 Gatekeeping is a thing in most fandoms... And it's stupid 🤣 Games I would like to see more are what I call "themed abstracts"...T&E, Azul, Hive, Cascadia... They are abstract but try to sell a theme 🤣 I feel they age amazingly well and just feel classic.
I love Spirit Island so far (not many games) because it is hard, it's like playing chess. I suppose it always come to what people think is fun. I'm having fun with hard board or video games, if it's too light and easy, I usually prefer to watch the ceiling. Same with cinema and books.
Ugh about winning, my PoV is that everyone who will sit down and play a boardgame together must be of the same mindset for that certain game. Do we play to spend some time together for fun or do we play aiming for the win? If one is off that mindset, some people will not enjoy it. Example 1: 8 people playing codenames, 2 play for the win, someone tries something funny, ruins a turn, person in his team aiming for the win goes mad, night ruined... Example 2: 5 people playing twilight imperium for 3-4 hrs, 1 gets bored because after all he never aimed for the win and kingmakes, ruining the game for the other 4. Example 3: 4 people playing root, 1 person is new, everybody playing in chill mode trying maybe new strategies. There will be a winner but even then he won't have outplayed the others and everyone knows and is content with it. There are even some games that feel like "group solos" (if I may) that one can do whatever he wants like railroad Ink or other really short games like slay them all where one doesn't really care to win.
Guys , love this video. So many reviewers seem to push the games to sell instead of a honest review. Jamie if you never played Raptor. It’s very easy rules, two player and one player plays the dinosaurs and mama protects her baby’s from being caught and the scientists are trying to to capture them. Jeff they also have mini’s but not a lot and it’s a card game board game. BAZINGA.👍
I just want to first say, I don’t agree that many reviewers are just pushing games to sell and lying to their audience. That’s just fundamentally false. It’s a growing narrative within the space and we both are going to continue working hard against that opinion. Negatively does not unequivocally equal honesty. Lots of people in this space just love games, and they share that love on their channels. As for raptor, we have played it! Great game that’s tons of fun.
You want Battle Toads? Look into Snails coming soon. About warring snails. (Basically an non-branded Worms game, so perhaps not that much of a "weird, unsafe bet").
Oh AND! Jeff, thank you for calling out those who are hyper focused on winning AND those who crap on others who enjoy collecting games, such as myself. The amount of comments I've gotten about my collection, which is just shy of 300 now (peanuts compared to your majestic collection lol!), is ridiculous. Let me enjoy growing my collection!
These rants made me day. I wish more people approached each other with kindness and wonder rather than immediately seeking to make judgement. Y’all’s message of inclusivity is awesome. Thank you. ❤
Two super popular games that everyone loves that I just can't find any enjoyment in are Onirim and Rove. :( And if I cared about winning board games, I'd never play Last Will with my husband - he wins 95% of the time, but I still have a blast playing!
Agree with just about everything you've said! I sometimes buy expansions because I'm want a "complete" game but I rarely end up playing with them. I honestly wish there were less expansions or more focus on expansions that simply add more card variety or something simple like that. I buy older and new games and have plenty of games I still haven't played. I often feel pressured to cull, but I only actually cull due to limited shelf space and/or games I definitely don't enjoy. At this point instead of culling I'm just more selective on what I buy knowing it has to compete with so many great games on my shelves. I have mixed feelings on upgraded components (including minis). I love having nice components for games I play frequently, but games I only play a couple times it's unnecessary. I've also found having a lot of upgraded components leads to larger boxes (which a struggle with limited shelf space) and sometimes more complicated set up. For the most part, I'd rather upgraded components be an option I can add later rather than come baked into the base game. I also don't truly care if I win or lose (although sometimes more competitive with my husband) and just want to have fun. Playing with people who are overly focused on optimizing every turn exhaust me and greatly diminish my fun.
I definitely get your point of view on Spirit Island. I bought it early on in my gaming journey and thought it was ok, I played it a few more times and since then it’s been in my top 3. But also you can’t expect people to keep trying a game that they didn’t enjoy the first time
Nope! Cult of the new only applies to people who chase after the newest and latest games but typically avoid playing older games. I’m only after games that are new-to-me, many of which are older games since I’m newer to the hobby and haven’t tried many of the classic euros
Great opinions. Would also love a Zelda game. Also, the internet in general is a cesspool when it comes to people's opinions. I doubt they'd say their criticisms to someone's face. There's a huge lack of self-awareness and lots of cowardice.
I’m with you on don’t yuck people’s yum and the acrylic standees. I wish it was more financially feasible to offer both options in more Kickstarter campaigns where you can pick acrylics or minis (or both for those folks who want it all). There have been a few that are close with minis as an upgrade but they usually only offer cardboard standees.
13:36 But what if you are trying to play games with them - and there’s this really amazing classic game which you want to play - yet they refuse, purely because they only want to play new games? Because then it WOULD be impacting me! So are you telling me to find someone else/other people to play it with?
On the topic of over competitive.. The time I find the balance hard to strike I if I’m teaching a complex two player game (for example War of the Ring) and the new player is taking a sub optimal turn.. I have to try and remind “oh hey you know you could do this.. or this..” as part of the teach, but I always worry it comes across more aggressive. Tricky
One of mine is the attitude that if you only enjoy light/filler games, you aren’t a real gamer. My girlfriend enjoys lighter games, games with a simple action system, and games that aren’t convoluted with a ton of components and if those games didn’t exist she wouldn’t enjoy board games and we wouldn’t play together at all.
22:50 There have been multiple studies on what makes a game fun and motivations for playing. Mastery and Winning are always on those lists. Why people play: Gamer's Motivation. Quantic Foundry identified the top 11 motivations for males to play games. At the top of that list is ‘the need to win’. For women it was number 4. We need to acknowledge that for some people, this is how they have fun, by trying to win. When I was first married my primary motivation for playing was ‘To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.’ It brought me so much joy to optimize my moves, figure out how to cleverly maneuver out of a bad situation. A few years in, I realized this was creating a negative experience for my wife. Over time I’ve evolved and I am a much different player. I would say the motivation for winning is probably at the bottom of board game maturity. But to tell people they should get over winning is like gatekeeping in the hobby and yucking on someone’s yum. They need time to mature and see there are other motivations and fun factors for playing games.
We think it’s totally fine if winning is someone’s motivation to win, that’s what we mean by everyone enjoys and experiences the hobby differently! That just isn’t how we enjoy it and that’s okay. It’s more of an awareness that hey if you’re so focused on winning that you forget to have fun and spoil the experience of those around you, we don’t love that, but once again, we don’t care how other people experience the hobby. :)
23:30 Played two or three times draft-write-records with somebody who instantly had collected his band and crew and finished the game very fast. He put the theme beside and ruined the game for all the other player. Yes he won (and maybe it is a sure winning strategy) but we lost the fun. "Life is hard enough - be kind to each other": 👍👍👍👍
