Unveiling the Hidden Surprise in this Game Changing Socket 

Big brother control in your sockets, now available for the improved control of humanity!

They'll have used electrolytics in the electronics so will start dieing after 5 years of being on in standby. Fotunately swappable by a standard one for £1.50 and a plug to keep the snitch socket reporting in.

1 I presume you can programme this to allow short term use, but then switch off after 15 minutes. Something to stop students running a heater 24-7 with the window open is desirable. Believe me, it happens. 2 Agreed.

Give that engineering student a job

If this product is even remotely competent, it will report the smart disable switch having been operated back to the management system or just disappear from the network, which the BMS should notice and report as a failed item requiring maintenance

1. hair dryers typically are under 2kw, so a 2kw limit would be fine. the idea is you don'd need to 'try and tell them' you write it down somewhere, tell them thats what the deal is, and when they try and use a high power load it just turns off. Also, as other commenters have said, it may be possible to allow higher loads but time limited. 2. the outlets are switched by relay, if the electronics are powered down with the switch on the back then the relays cannot energise and the sockets cannot be used. Again, as mentioned, sockets dropping off the network would raise an alarm in the BMS and could be investigated. Tamper proof screws could also be used to make is more difficult for things like this to occur.

@@jxj2684 Of course it happens, how else are they supposed to dry their washing? 😂

😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😂 Wait till they start to fail and the client is on the phone saying “ but it’s under warranty “ or “ it won’t connect to the BMS system”.

Councils will lap it up.

Not at that price we won't. Meter at the dis-board instead.

Wow, really? 😱

If you are an energy manager (as I have been, now retired) and want to justify installing something like this you would be asked to identify the savings and the payback. Most companies will want something like a 3 to 4 year ROI, so unless the equipment you are potentially switching off at night is saving more than a good few Wh’s then paying £250 + installation for something like this isn’t going to be justified on limited capital budgets.

Then what percentage of these units will work reliably for 15 years ?

it depends on the size of your place, above a certain size it becomes unpractical to even attempt to get humans involved, also bms does a whole lot more than lighting...

Too much focus on reducing energy demand,,, Increase energy supply,, We have had the technology to do so for decades,, go nuclear ☢️

Im a programmer first and automation engineer second specialising in Home and Office automation systems and I have noticed this in the past few years but haven't ever found out why all of the "Cool" stuff gets value engineered out before the work packet lands on the customer desk for approval. Some time around 2019 I was tasked with designing a smart office system with energy management in mind along while integrating into the meeting room technology. So I designed a system with solar sensors (Light Colour Temperature, Light Lux Level and Outside temperature) on each corner of the building to track the daylight. Automated shades that will open and close when in automatic mode to regulate the temperature in the rooms using the natural sunlight for example if the sun is shining and the room needs warning open the blinds. If its too hot and the sun is bright then shut the blinds. Then the office lighting was integrated with occupancy sensors and lux level sensors to determine if the lights in that corner of the room needed turning on, eg was it too dark and is there someone sitting there. This was all tied back to a load monitoring system that will log and produce energy usage reports and email them to the client steak holders on a regular basis as required by the customer. Digital signage was linked into the fire alarm system and switched to a map of the building indicating the escape routes to use. The meeting rooms would report no shows and if the client wanted we could also provide "video miles" which calculated the travel saved by having a video conference instead of driving/flying. All of this got engineered out by the main contractor and we ended up lobbing in a couple of Logitech UC systems, a massive TV in the reception they dont ever use and a luton lighting system that is basically programmed to be totally manual with no automation or energy savings. I was so excited to do the programming but then it gets value engineered out. Having said that I have watched the decline in the custom automation industry over the last 3 years since the pandemic, There is not as much need for offices these days and rich people aren't spending £50million on a house with £750,000 on AV Equipment that needs programming. The likes of Apple, Samsung, Alexa and Google are all popping up and more people are moving towards off the shelf products. Because of this I have decided to get out of automation and programming for the moment. Not sure if there is another niche that I can use my skills in but I dont see a long term future in things like Crestron, AMX and Control 4. Is it worth re training and becoming an electrician?

OMG I wish these were about before I retired, some departments would really take the P!ss with plug in heaters always overriding the heating zone stats, so there rooms were tropical and every other room was cold and always daisy changing extension leads with heater on the end, This would stop all this nonsense

Watching the video, I kept thinking: what is the price? Yeah that's nice--what is the price? Oooo brilliant--what is the price?

Surely that decimal point is in the wrong place....

Ouch.

Thats list price, anybody who is going to be installing these is going to be a big enough customer that they're paying nowhere near list price for them.

@@Pugjamin They might not be paying £250 a pop, but I would be amazed if the bulk discount put them under £100 which honestly is still too much for all but critical infrastructure unless you have excess budget to fill. Replacing all the sockets in a large, multistory, office could easily end up making the system cost a significant percentage of the value of the property, compared to regular sockets that are just lost in the nosie. Not withstanding the extra work needed to disable them all for testing (its a few seconds per box but it adds up), and the much higher cost to replace after a failure.

£9K in fees, plus £6K in accommodation, and you still can't plug in a heater to stay warm

This will have exactly 0 effect on engineering students power usage, unless things have changed since my day, possibly they will do some bit coin mining to generate cash as well as heat :) Getting only 2 Amps would be like paying for phone calls at a coin operated call box for goodness sake

Made a lol. Any elec student would simply disconnect the socket and fit a £1.99 outlet from wilko, job done. Then rob the £250 "smart" socket and sell it to buy weed.

@@Hiccup77 and so they should

Why don't the underground has heated third rail then ?

One day when you're burning you'll wish someone thought about fire safety

@@electroplank587 As long as they actually think instead of just going around mindlessly.

@@electroplank587 Ever heard of sprinklers.....

@@DacMan777 what has that got to do with anything... Safety doesn't replace common sense.

@@electroplank587 you clearly missed the point.....

looks like it's bluetooth rather than wifi judging by the BLE mac address label on the socket

@@geebot According to the datasheet, BLE is only used for setup

@@geebot I'd assume it is HoneyWell's "OneWireless" network system, which as far as I can find is a closed ecosystem - HoneyWell/MK only sockets, which is fine to a point.

​@@cheeseburgerbeefcakeWhy is it only fine to a point?

@@deang5622 To the point that you have to integrate it with anything else

God only knows! I've been asking for this for years. To date I've not installed a single USB socket because of this flawed design.

They could simply use either of the normal switches to switch the USB on/off.

@@okaro6595 correct. No idea why they don't.

@@okaro6595but then the USB would turn off as soon as you switched off that socket, which isn’t a problem for electricians but is one in daily use. It should really be a separate switch, on the front. Just have three instead of two.

A pinhole switch on the front of the socket instead of having to remove it would be better too...

I lived in a student hall which had a 2Amp circuit breaker for every room.

@@efixx wow. That would get some superglue in the breaker switch, no doubt 😂

Yeah shelly do good gear

Is there a video showing Shelley’s with uk sockets?

@@sethkazzim731 You can get plug-in UK spec modules now. If you were to connect the shelly inside the box, you would have to control both sockets at the same time because most (all?) uk double sockets are joined together as one from the back. You cant feed each socket with power seperately. Also controlling both sockets as one could lead to an overload situation as shellys are only rated to max 16a. 2 x 13a sockets would exceed this by a lot.

If you want a hard wired smart socket, you'd be better off with something like the Lightwave LP42WHMK2 Smart Socket for home automation, a fraction of the price but has all the same features, except the power limiting feature.

@@AdrianBawn I’m thinking of going with a Mk grid, two unswitched sockets with two separate switches in a three grid. I do have the Shelly plug and it’s great but would like this option in my back pocket. One Shelly +1PM per socket maybe?

This is headline price for one ☝️ projects on a case by case basis.

Idle power usage is a very good question. I suspect and hope it’s firmly sub one watt, but even that would mount up to a reasonable amount if you had a house full of them.

@@efixx Unless the price comes down to less than 70% of that RRP then still too expensive. Only large poorly run facilities would even consider these at the price. The ROI simply does not add up at all....

Great application 👍

was just coming to say the same. Especially when other brands of smart sockets can be had for

like most new tech it doesn't pay to be an early adopter for cost and reliability reasons. I laughed when i saw the cost of the socket.

just more to go wrong

Because PLC controllers are expensive. These if priced right, should be about £20 max, anything more and someone is taking the piss. Plus they don't need additional data cabling thus can be retrofitted easily in just about any building.

@@dougle03 there 250 a socket yes you heard me two hundred and fifty pounds sterling

It’s just going to be L&N to earth IR test and if it’s crap. Just LIM the test on the form due to these sockets

an easier way would be some kind of key combination or sequence on the button like maybe holding it down for 10 seconds.

@@BrianSu something like that wouldnt work as it needs to entirely disconnect the electronics from the power supply.

@@BrianSu It needs a 'hard' switch - one with real contacts - to disconnect the smart bits when testing.

An emergency lighting test key would have been perfect

They most certainly thought of building in planned obsolescence, there are electrolytic capacitors in the unit!

Great 👍

To turn off an appliance on standby that draws less than 1 watt, they will save their own cost in just under a hundred years. And then the socket must be drawing power itself.

add another £400 for the hub!

😂😂. Are they nuts.

I immediately checked the same thing! 😂 £250 🤣

+ VAT.

Yes it’s available in the UK - check link in description

Yes, and no. Best avoided

It’s about 0.5W

even if these are mostly garbage that'll be abandoned by MK in a few years (Either not profitable enough, or hacked and insecure leading law suits) leaving the software handing in the breeze and you with a bunch of non functioning sockets to replace... No thanks...

nobody pays list price! 🤣

@@Pugjamin you would be surprised!

@@BDFProtector well that’s their fault then lol

@@Pugjamin Would need to be at least 80% off list to be competitive...

If it's based on the ESP chip then

Given that MK is not a software company, they will have paid an external developer for these. That's an ongoing expensive engagement for MK, one that will gel more untenable as the months pass and these fail to take off.. Equally, the contract for the software will have gone to one of the cheaper developers thus security won't be a high priority....

@@dougle03 This is interesting, questions now are how do users f/w update to make sure they are most recent with bug and security fixes. i'm sure there is a utility, i hope its available to home owner. Many companies charge for stuff today and you may find you have to sign up to a annual charge

Welcome!

Thanks John - Sorry it took an age to respond. We'll use this for a beer to think about our next video. - Gordon

No reason for an electrician to manage the software side. The buildings existing IT support could easily take that part of it on without issue. In fact, most IT departments would no doubt insist on it..

@@dougle03 The building management team is never going to let the IT team anywhere near the resulting network, while the IT team will be making it very clear that power will not be just disconnected from devices such as printers as and when the building management team thinks it is for the best.

The vampire power draw on a USB charger when not charging something is very small. You might be talking 20p a year for a good one at today's prices. Personally there are too many issues with sockets with built in USB chargers that I don't use them. Look good till there is a problem then they are a nightmare.

@@jonathanbuzzard1376 it’s more a fire risk if it goes wrong. Leaving it on all the time. Typical house 3/4 sockets a room. 80p a room, 5 rooms with usb power £4.00 a year minimal but multiply that by every house. Lots of wasted energy

The current drain of a USB adapter when off load is minimal, but the switchmide converter makes a hell of a noise. I rewired it so that switching the socket off turned the USB part. Worked but I uninstalled it because it was too jury-rigged.

One-off upfront cost for a lifetime of savings.

@@krashd yeah, the lifetime of the product

not if you've prepared a cost / benefit analysis for them and can give them a timescale as to when they will become a saving.

They're not designed for domestic installation.

@@Pugjamin That wasnt the question i asked.

Someone tried that for granny cable style EV chargers -trading standards quickly clamped down on the issue.

​@@efixxsure but I can wire two plugs into a trailing outlet with short lengths of cable very easily.

​@@jonathanbuzzard1376Yes, but this would potentially mean that one of the plugs would be live when unplugged. Surely the Smartsocket can detect when it's being backpowrered ?

@@quantisedspace7047 Nope. Current measurement is via a shunt. It will only see power going one way (It would never go the other way unless the voltage was higher than itself).

you seem to have added extra 0 on those figures, should be 2-3 years.. once MATTER become the defacto standard.

Mk have no immediate plans for a domestic version it’s purely for commercial BMS integrations. I’m sure as Matter compatibility opens up something will appear.

The issue is going to be the price they wish to sell these sockets for. Currently, they list at around £226 (ex VAT). A consumer-focussed device will basically be the same hardware, but different firmware but at a much-reduced price. With a major difference in price, they would end up with a marketing headache.

Already done. BG is doing something similar for a tiny fraction of what these cost. The home automation scene is now dominated by the open source community. Could not tell from the video, but that chip looked like an Expressive ESP8266 or S32, thus very much moddable with your choice of alternative firmware...

£271 PER SOCKET

I've done a lot of industry and commercial work you very rarely move sockets about if you do it no more than one or two.

If you’ve got a 1000 rooms it sounds like a good opportunity for negotiation 👍

The electronics needs to be powered up.

@@efixx For the relays of course. I suspect students may still find a way around the restriction by pairing up the Two outlets into one trailing socket.

​​@@G1ZQCArtworkYou are confusing yourself. The internal switch is present for purposes of electrical testing, nothing more. So it is switched off by the electrician for the purposes of the PAT/insulation test only, and then switched back on. You don't want power coming out of the socket under this test; this is not normal operation. There is no appliance connected to the socket outlet. So yes, turning the switch off isolates the smart socket's electronics from its supply and means that the socket cannot operate. It means that the relays switching mains power to the sockets are in a normally open state and require energising to close the relay contacts and energise the output sockets. So if you wanted to permanently disable the socket and prevent it being used, opening the socket up, sliding this switch would achieve that. But that would be a pointless thing to do, as you've installed a £250 socket and now it can't be used. Now, your second question/issue was whether you can bypass the current restriction limitation when active. That's not connected with the electronics isolation switch. If the user has configured the system to limit the socket to 6 amps each, then yes that restriction can be bypassed by making up a cable adapter arrangement comprising two 13 plugs with 13 amp cables and a junction box. That would provide up to 12 amps of current. A highly dangerous cable because you would be able to remove one of the two plugs from the sockets and a live pin at full mains voltage would be exposed. But yes, the current restriction could be by passed. Any seller selling such a cable is certainly going to have Trading Standards soon knocking on their door and possibly a prosecution will follow. But of course, there is nothing to stop an individual making up their own such adapter cable.

@@deang5622 No, not confused thanks.

@@G1ZQCArtwork Not now I hope after having answered it.

Could be a nice touch button or a little slot on the side you push a terminal in.

Swich on the outside would mean users can turn it off, and likely means management features turn off.

They could put a magnetic switch behind the face plate to disconnect it. They then could sell you a service magnet. £100 seems a good price considering the £250 a socket! 😂

@@cheeseburgerbeefcake And if it's turned off they're not getting any power out of it. It's not as if it'd be hard to alarm on a socket not being powered.

The BMS would flag a fault and the socket won’t work if the internal electronics aren’t connected - better pop down the students union instead and make a nuisance there instead.

None, since it's all freely available tech. ESP based microprocessor based WiFi/zigbee comms. Should be easy to flash something less cloud needy... lol Something like the BG unit it's easy to flash although I don't think it has the built in shunt for current measurement..

This is the first one in the commercial space which integrates with the Bacnet building control architecture.

Also having a look online, I came across the EYEWATERING price of £210.95 ex VAT!!!

I wouldn't trust it for that purpose.

Don't trust this one either. Those electronics can and will fail, right in the cavity too...

At a high school I went to in the 90's the computer department would leave all the computers on overnight, the lights would get turned off and the screens would go into standby so from outside the room would be completely dark, but in the room you would hear the hum and feel the heat of 15 RM Nimbus computers whirring away, with 15 Macs in another room doing the same.

Manipulating things when away from home is more Internet-of-Things rather than Smart, Smart generally just means power-saving while IoT is where your fridge talks to your PC or sends a reminder to your phone that there's no milk left.

+1,000,000

You assume they considered their use and ruled them out. They might not have. Or they might have considered them but ruled them out for cost.

@@deang5622 These are £250+VAT per socket. Cost was not the limiting factor

Sorry, this comment was for a previous video of yours that I viewed

£253.14

These in theory should be able to measure PF (As a product of its V sensing and A shunt) correction is another matter all together...

How about what the socket is used for?