Updates to the Brymen BM869s Backlight Timer 

I'm not sure why you would waste Brymen's time. Apparently when you saw this video, you didn't actually take the time to watch it. I explained it will cause the meter to need alignment and that Brymen will not be offering the parts to previous customers. Imagine people trying to replace their parts, destroying their meters. Even for those skilled at soldering, having the meter aligned and calibrated may very well exceed the cost of a new meter. To possibly help others like yourself, I have pinned your comment.

Or you can make it stay ON forever. just resolder one resistor under the dislay and done. my meter has it over two years and is aproved by brymen as a functional and warranty lossing mod :-)

@@michalmichalsk I imagine if you or someone else were to become injured as a result of using your modified meter, the courts would hold you responsible, not Brymen.

I can only guess from what known about this model but there is a chip on board I believe S24CS04A wich suppose to store the calibration values?

@@joesmith-je3tq I believe that expertise would decide this. And if a person changed only the operation of the backlight, without changing the measuring part or the protection components, then the probability that the consumer of this device would be found guilty is extremely small.

I did exatly the same as you after killed 71e in microwave owen, thanks to Joe, backlight is the only dissapointing thing, unfortunatley there is no program way to change backlight timer for people alredy bought 869S, and miracle does not happend.

JamesKing Question: When I tried to order this meter, I was told there was a 'Import-Duty' charge but even the US-Brymen sales rep could not tell me how much it was. Could you tell me how much and when the charge was incurred by you (i.e. at time of sale or were you contacted by the delivery and charged before you could take possession)? I'm in the USA... Thanks So Much!

@@SpinStar1956 I purchased it from telonic in the uk - they are the official uk distributor and so did have have to pay any additional duties or import taxes. I suggest you look to see if there is a distributor or importer in the USA.

@@jamesking7868 Well thank you very much for replying to me. Before I sent this reply to you, I actually did contact the distributor in Georgia. However, they were absolutely of no help. In fact it took the lady several minutes before she could even find a Brymen 869S in her system. She then informed me that I would have to contact whatever delivery service in order to inquiry on what the duty was. When I called several of them they just laughed and said we don’t have any of that information. i’m not used to ordering stuff from abroad, but I’ve heard horror stories where somebody ordered some thing at a good price and then it cost them a whole pile of money and duty fees. I did go online and used a calculator, and it literally told me that the duty alone would be $231 USD! Anyway, I hope I find a US purchaser that can fill me in because once you make the purchase you’re stuck unless you want to just forfeit everything that you’ve paid so far…

LCD is better in multimeter than OLED. works in every light and forever

@@cannesahs That's not always correct and OLED is much more visible at a glance over larger distances. OLED is often not usable outside but inside is it fantastic. :-)

@@cannesahs The LCD of my phone went crap after 4 years, displaying only some parts of the numbers and other weirdness of that sort. But yeah maybe that in the same conditions using the same build quality, an OLED would fail before an LCD? I don't know about this, for now it's pure speculation... The point is that LCD displays are not as robust as you seem to believe.

Question: When I tried to order this meter, I was told there was a 'Import-Duty' charge but even the US-Brymen sales rep could not tell me how much it was. Could you tell me how much and when the charge was incurred by you (i.e. at time of sale or were you contacted by the delivery and charged before you could take possession)? I'm in the USA... Thanks So Much!

Different websites brymen differently... There is an option for 16 seconds: brymen_EU: Manual "102092.INSTRUKCJA_EN..2014-11-04.1.pdf", page 12 "Backlighted display Press the SELECT button for 1 second or more to toggle the LCD backlight. The backlight will also be turned off automatically after approximate 32 seconds to extend battery life." brymen_COM Manual "BM860s-manual-print1-IEC61010-1-3rd-r3.pdf", page 12 "Backlighted display Press the SELECT button for 1 second or more to toggle the LCD backlight. The backlight will also be turned off automatically after approximate 16 seconds to extend battery battery life."

Question: When I tried to order this meter, I was told there was a 'Import-Duty' charge but even the US-Brymen sales rep could not tell me how much it was. Could you tell me how much and when the charge was incurred by you (i.e. at time of sale or were you contacted by the delivery and charged before you could take possession)? I'm in the USA... Thanks So Much!

@@SpinStar1956 I can't help you on this one.. I live in the UK and bought mine from a UK distributor. I know there are problems buying Brymen in the USA as an old EEVblog forum post indicates (Search 'usa source for brymen meters').

@@chrisg6597 hello thank you very much for replying I deeply appreciate it. Actually, I did contact the Brymen US distributor in Georgia before I did this reply. It took them actually several minutes to actually admit that they sell or represent Brymen and even took longer to find the 869S. They told me to actually contact the shippers and they could tell me but that turned out to be a red herring without any validity. In the past I’ve heard horror stories of people ordering something that they thought was a good deal only to have the duty be absolutely outrageous. In fact I did an online calculator and it said that I would have to pay $231 and duty for this particular item from Poland…

So you have a use for this as well as the Ultra.

@@joesmith-je3tq 35 years as an instrumentation tech in the Oil & Gas industry. Spent a couple years as a bench tech assembling and repairing oil field pumping unit PLCs, dynamometers and associated strain gauge & position sensors before becoming an I&E tech. Got on a handheld DMM jag in the last coupla months. Don't "need" anymore meters, just "want" a few more handheld DMMs to add to the Simpson 260-8XPi VOM, Fluke 87V DMM and Fluke 789 Process Meter I actually use daily. Received the Brymen DM869s as you know, and a Keysight U1282A is scheduled to arrive tomorrow from Mouser. Looking to aquire a few more, but still researching. The Gossen Ultra (Prime) is whispering my name along with an offer or two from Yokogawa and Hioki. Your informative and entertaining videos have greatly contributed to my recent DMM buying spree and I appreciate it. If Fluke/Uni-Trend would update the 289/UT181A they would be on my list. But those high dollar Gossens just won't let me disregard them. I'll let you know so you can say, "I told you so" 😉

@@Cleofizoid I saved an old Fluke 8506A from the recycle not too long ago. Needed some work to get it running. Certainly didn't need it but have been having some fun with it. Of course, specs on that meter would be much better than you will find with a handheld. Typical of higher end bench meters. The Ultra if tamed, would be one of the highest performing handhelds I own but it will not match my old HP bench meters.

energysafe in wrong place i guess

Back lighting being of an uttermost existential issue, it I'll throw in some cheap "café philosophy"... ;-) Why such a blatant ergonomic design incompetence became a standard... Stupid "Social mimicking", in a business World that seems to structure itself into cartels since the "financial Globalization" paradigm (financial communism/imperialism), and thus don't really care about clients and quality requirements since they have a quasi-monopolistic stance (they only have to comply to safety regulations, if and when they exist)? xD... Fact is that *there's actually a very small number of "designers+constructors"* (financial/investment monopolies won't allow too much competition, for securing their investment revenues in minimizing the risks involved with R&D), the rest operating as OEMs using their technology and putting their name over it. Hence the fact that most companies selling multimeters with their own name and unique enclosure+colors, are *acting like mere lemmings rather than human beings, in repeating the exact same and most evident mistakes* (globalists backward mentality hates competition, they don't want competencies to compete into entrepreneurial endeavors serving the people/civilization - as they also hate any "humanist Civilization", unless it gives their "wannabe aristocratic" cliques the high-grounds whatever this could imply and involve).

Assuming it is brand new, it should have this feature.

@@joesmith-je3tq - it came from Welectron, so I suppose it depends on how much stock they hold.

@@jim9930 greenlee should have the latest revision.

@Cliff Matthews I would expect them to all be the S version by now. I had asked Greenlee if they would tell me the difference between their meter and the OEM besides the obvious color. They never got back with me.

You could check with TME. This is where I bought mine from.

I have the Keysight meter ready to run but have been busy on other projects.

I would NEVER suggest anyone attempt to modify a safety device. Rather just buy what ever product fits your needs. In the case of the BM869s, it's been addressed.

@@joesmith-je3tq I would sooner compromise the safety of the device than have to constantly turn on the backlight again! I just don't get why the auto off is even considered a feature on a device like this, I believe that if you were to ask your audience where they used their meter the majority of the time, I bet that most people use them indoors! I don't think that an end all be all meter exists! So we have no choice but to purchase multiple meters just to measure specific things, except for when you need to measure multiple different devices at the same time which is unavoidable but if an extremely close to perfect meter was available, then it becomes okay to spend that much on a meter or two but that's currently not the case! So instead of getting a good meter like anyone of the meters in your video, we end up with half the range of meters from the Aneng catalogue! They aren't the best but for the money I can cover all the bases even if it costs more more in the end, at least I have what to show for the money spent! If a meter can get me through at least 24hrs on one set of batteries, then I'm happy with that but at least whenever I looked at it's screen, it was always on and visible in any lighting conditions! Speaking of safety devices! How safe is it when the lights have just gone off and it's dark and the backlight has also gone off! You would have thought that by now, someone would have added a light sensor to automatically turn the backlight on and off, for people like me, I can always put a bit of black tape over the sensor to keep it on indefinitely if that's what I needed! What I would call a feature would be to have a two stage light sensor that turns on the backlight at a predetermined value and if the level of light falls below that or falls fast as in a breaker has tripped while you are in the middle of high voltage and you can't see where your meter is because your torch Batteries died 2 minutes ago, then the meter automatically lights up a strip led to automatically get you out of a hairy situation! That would be a safety device. It considers the dangerous situation you might be in and provides the tools not only to do the task at hand but also has the safety features to see you through, the input protection on the meter is only designed to protect itself, the human side of things are just a bonus. As you can tell, auto off annoys me more than RU-vid adds every 2 minutes of a 1.5hrs video and that's already bad enough! I know that I can be done, there are meters that have a non contact high voltage sensor that will also flash a really bright led that also doubles as a torch! Oled screen's always stay on until it turns itself off which I'm not aware at this time if there's a meter that can be programmed to stay on at startup, actually there's a meter on eBay that will stay on if it's Bluetooth is data logging! So it can be done, but someone really has to be able to get the message across to the manufacturer, that can't be me, I don't have any of those sort of contacts.

@@PeterMilanovski Personally, I started out with just a simple analog meter. It was many years before I bought my first digital meter. RU-vid doesn't make for a good forum. I suggest joining one of the many electronic or electrical forums. For the safety side, you may want to consider joining a group that talks about the IEC standards.

@@joesmith-je3tq At least the analog meters are easy to modify and they look great when their meter is backlit! IEC standards didn't exist once apon a time! Yet people still worked with Electronics just as we do today! Some people people never had a problem while others got zapped and others died! The ratio's might be a little different today but it's still pretty much the same! You can have the best equipment with all the ratings and someone is still going to die! The reason for this I believe is ethics! If you have a good understanding of electricity and it's role in Electronics, then you automatically know what to do, and that's the part that keeps us safe, digging inside an amplifier I might come across anything from 30V to 90V rail's, it's a stark contrast to the days of vacuum tubes! Working with 1000V was common practice but their equipment leaved a lot to be desired! You would think that people were being kill all the time even though a lot of people would build their own equipment! Those who died were destined to! I know people like that! They see other people doing something and they like it and decide to to do it also, they cut off their fingers on the docking saw! Or they nail their own fingers while holding a sheet of plywood to a stud wall with the nail gun! I have seen it first hand! Wherein what ever I have done, even if it's out of my experience and knowledge, I know that I can attempt it and I will be successful with the job and I won't even be injured but it's my work ethics that see me through!

@@PeterMilanovski You sure do like your exclamation points and run on sentences. Does your translator do this? I would imagine the IEC standard came as a result of electricians, not from people working in electronics. Personally, I have little concern for safety and it's not a real good channel to discuss it. Most of what I work on are low voltage, or high voltage low energy. There are some decent forums that are specific to electricians that you may find of interest. There is one that is specific to arc flash. When it comes to safety, proper education, training, PPE far outweigh a persons moral principles. Maybe ethics was not really what you meant.

From the measurements I make in the video, I would say no, or at least not enough to concern me. Both of these meters have always read fairly close to one another as well as the 189s I have.

I wouldn't have a reason to not use the battery the manufacture calls for. You would need to ask Brymen about the input protection and range it was designed for. My guess is they will tell you that the meter was designed to take the batteries called out in the manual, but you never know until you ask. I've been using rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries in mine for a few years. These have an open circuit voltage of 8.7 or so after a charge. So far, I haven't seen a downside to using them.

Thanks for your response. I am currently using "Westinghouse" brand 9v 1200mah lithium battery. It has been working for 3 years. I use very few multimeters. Therefore, I did not need a rechargeable battery. Also, in the country I live in, 9v lithium batteries are very difficult to find and their prices are very expensive. As an alternative, I used a CR2 battery. Anyway, I take precautions by trimming the excess voltage by connecting a diode. Thanks for your advice.

I am currently using Lithium-ion in them. If in question, I would contact the manufacture.

I can't find where I say "they pretend to ..." Why would you think the timeout setting was a bug? It's common to track products by their serial number.

@@joesmith-je3tq Not a technical bug, but imho a functional one.

@@HawkFest Battery life may have been a higher priority than back light on time. I don't see it as a bug as it functioned as described in the manual. If it were designed for 15 seconds on-time and it never turned off, that would be a bug. Your not liking a how something was designed doesn't make them bugs.

Hey bro! Define best

I've looked at a few CEM products in the past. They don't hold up well against my tests. The price on this one is pretty high. I like that tri-display CEM we found for $120.

No.

@@joesmith-je3tq Contacted them and they assured me I was going to get the latest (manufactured last month). So I ordered and indeed received the latest version. But is your backlight also much dimmer on the left side? Yours looks much brighter and way more even than mine.

@@Ni5ei Yes, they are dimmer towards the left and my Fluke 189s are dimmer towards the right. My 869s is brighter than my 189. It would be hard to say how yours compares without having them side by side with the same camera, angle and lighting.

I had looked at some counterfeit SIBA fuses some time ago but these were not the large HRC fuses like the 869s uses. If I were working in CATIII/IV with one of these meters, I may actually pull the fuses and leave them out. I wouldn't trust a counterfeit. The meter I use has clamps. There are no fuses. It would be an interesting test to run some sort of fault current test on them but that is far beyond anything I would be willing to do.

@@joesmith-je3tq Such test is a huge risk for people doing them without special equipment and room, and room should have 480V connected for doing this. But any way they are intresting from safety reasons for ordinary multimeter user. The main test and the mans fault is measuring voltage at amp range doing shortcircut by this (or at diod/resistance/capacity). Then fuses are very important and their breaking capacity, a guess 70% and 30% to circuitry imho. Because if arc alredy burning nothing will stop it only power shutdown. So arc should be excluded from possible variants. Many times read this article (www.ecmweb.com/Samsung afety/arc-flash/article/20898038/the-case-of-the-deadly-arc-flash) thought about sequences of random events, which could cause your unexpected injury even you are skilled person for ex you are measuring something at countryside and lightning strike to input bare wire cable, nothing you can do this case. Will multimeter protect you that is a question. Of cource you could take fuses out to avoid possible error (only amps range) , but actually system itself should not allows user to make measurments at places they should not be done like some switchgear, machine room, substation everything in such places should have required indication of unit working state and running processes.

I have never looked at the BM867.

you couldn't locate it in the spreadsheet? If you are not sure where it is stored, read the description.

I think the range has always been this way. With older and newer firmware, holding select when powering on will disable the auto power off but has no effect on the backlight timer. Holding the select with power on has no effect on the backlight time as well. What firmware do you have that behaves this way?

You would need to ask Brymen. I don't work for them. Personally I have not had a problem with it and wouldn't care.

@@joesmith-je3tq Thanks for your reply! I guess it's not too much of a problem when you see the issue you can work around it by just turning auto-ranging off. It would only be a problem if you do data logging. I hope newer 869s will come with a fix from the factory.

@@kwinzman www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg3336556/#msg3336556

@@joesmith-je3tq So what you are saying is that the other meters could handle 10 times or more the induced voltage in resistor measurement mode. But short leads and twisting them should help keep under 27mVolt RMS.

@@kwinzman More that I am not sure what good enough really is. I provided some measurements using the longest leads I had and a lamp cord to inject a signal. That IMO was pretty extreme and not how I would normally take any higher impedance measurement like this. No doubt they could improve it but for me, it's no big deal.

​@Cliff Matthews There's a lot of cheap meters out there besides UEI and they seem to be doing well. They had plenty of opportunity to improve their design. I suspect they just don't have the capability or it's just not their goal.

The downside would be if someone were injured as a a result of you changing a safety device. I suspect you would be held responsible. Meters I have modified are clearly marked not to use and will be destroyed in the future.

@@joesmith-je3tq how you gonna change any safety of the meter when you resolder one tiny smd resistor on backlight which is on the second (logic) board. Safety (inputs) stuff is on first board

@@michalmichalsk I wouldn't, that's my whole point. You have which is fine but for me, not worth the risk.