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Use This Cucumber Trellis for a HUGE Harvest! 

Restorative Gardening with Mind & Soil
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In 2021, I experimented with a few cucumber trellises to see which one would maximize yield. By the end of the season - there was a run away winner. So, in today's video I share with you the step-by-step process to build the exact same A-Frame Trellis for cucumbers that I used last season to harvest more than 125 cucumbers from only 6 plants!
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21 май 2022

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Комментарии : 250   
@GotrekGurninsson
@GotrekGurninsson Год назад
Hot tip… plant your spinach and lettuce under the trellis. The cucumbers will protect them from the sun and stop them from bolting as early.
@SassyGalPrepping
@SassyGalPrepping 3 месяца назад
Brilliant!! Thank you for sharing this.
@togger2151
@togger2151 Год назад
Instead of cutting the angle on the tops of verticals and screwing them together, I overlapped the ends of the verticals and drilled and bolted them with a wing nut. That way it folds flat for storage for the next season
@lydiaahubbell8545
@lydiaahubbell8545 2 месяца назад
is there a way to fit a hinge?
@togger2151
@togger2151 2 месяца назад
@@lydiaahubbell8545 I am sure you could
@bluebonetube
@bluebonetube 2 года назад
If you don’t have the saw for the angle I just use a small hinge at the top. It also folds up and is easy to store.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Oh cool!! So you put a hinge on the top of the two sides and then it opens up? How do you set the width to which it opens?
@patrickd9551
@patrickd9551 Год назад
@@MindandSoil small crossbar basically. Either screwed in place or you could chisel out a recess. Or you could do an all-thread crossbar perhaps.
@dereklonewolf9011
@dereklonewolf9011 2 месяца назад
@@patrickd9551 or a string loop so far down 👍 🍁
@spamjam6298
@spamjam6298 2 месяца назад
@@MindandSoil bolt and a wing nut then fold it up when not in use
@loristricklin7627
@loristricklin7627 Год назад
Love the idea of using yarn the help with the trellising and the basic build A-frame system. You are one of the first youtube gardeners that I have come across that mentions how mentally restorative gardening can be. I have to agree with this 100%. I have always said that my garden has gotten me through some tough times in life both mentally and physically. Would love it if you posted your pickle recipe (if it isn't a family secret!).
@Supracrm
@Supracrm Год назад
guess that's a NO!
@robhunt-watts8908
@robhunt-watts8908 2 года назад
I'm a 71 year old Englishman. I live just north of Stonehenge in southern England. Our soil is amazing greensand and anything will grow. I've just come across your site and I thank you for the ideas. We are never too late to learn.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
That's the beauty of gardening! There's always so much more to learn. I like to say I'm in my 6th first year of gardening :D
@cestmoikim6514
@cestmoikim6514 Год назад
With lumber costing an arm and TWO legs nowadays, I am going to use bamboo from a friend's bamboo forest and make a few Gilligan's Island A-frame trellises for all kinds of veggies. Thanks for the idea!
@nedcramdon1306
@nedcramdon1306 Год назад
I miss "little buddy" Gilligan.
@cestmoikim6514
@cestmoikim6514 Год назад
@@nedcramdon1306 Yes, silliest, but BEST, show!
@chocolate_chip21
@chocolate_chip21 Месяц назад
You couldn't have made this easier! I wouldn't have thought about making a trellis myself until watching this. Im making them all myself now!!
@SemourKlitz
@SemourKlitz Год назад
I was so inspried by this video, I ran out and made one very similar for myself. And it came out great! I painted it with primer. Will add second coat before crisscrossing it with carpenter's string. Can't wait to see my cucumbers use this later in the season. Thanks! Now I need someone to show me how to make homemade pickles.
@jbonkerz
@jbonkerz Год назад
you have combined my two loves in to one video. Gardening, and woodworking.
@gregoryhunts3006
@gregoryhunts3006 Месяц назад
I have the entire side of the garage covered in 4x8 pieces of fencing. Usually only plant 2 to 4 plants and I get more cucumbers than the neighborhood and I can eat. I love to garden and have been for the better part of 40yrs, I just can't eat some of the things as much as i used to, so I share with all my family and friends.
@keelyquinn2374
@keelyquinn2374 5 месяцев назад
Just discovered your channel and already have a million ideas to work towards for this year and years to come. Can't wait!
@lsteiner
@lsteiner Год назад
I have a different setup, but will now be the adding the yarn. Thanks!
@richardmontgomery6173
@richardmontgomery6173 Год назад
Built two, one for beans and one for cucumbers. So far so good! Thanks!
@serenalee-cultura4085
@serenalee-cultura4085 2 года назад
I will make some variant of this (and the tomato, and squash one) this week and I am so excited! Thank you for these amazing videos.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Perfect Serena!! Thrilled to hear they're helpful for ya!!
@jordanaferagen2094
@jordanaferagen2094 Год назад
So glad I found this channel ❤
@makadutaarzola9453
@makadutaarzola9453 Год назад
Just found your channel. My husband and I are very excited to learn new ideas. Blessings 🙏😁
@margaretlaycock42
@margaretlaycock42 Год назад
Thanks for putting this up for first time growers of cucumbers in her 70's 😂
@jenniferkleidon9349
@jenniferkleidon9349 2 года назад
That’s wonderful!! Love your mission in the garden; you rock✨🙌🏻
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Oh thanks so much Jennifer!! Where abouts are you gardening?!
@luvlyday5350
@luvlyday5350 2 года назад
You make this look so easy! Thank you!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
You can do it!! The only challenging part is just that one diagonal cut and even that is fairly straight forward after 1 or 2 practice tries! You got it!
@donnavorce8856
@donnavorce8856 Год назад
Nice demo. Excellent idea. We can grow up when space is critical! I especially like the dual benefits of clean produce not laying in mud, and being able to harvest without bending to the ground. I began gardening when I was six with grandma and have been at it ever since. You're right about the mental benefits, plus physical benefits in both fitness and in eating the freshest organic food. It's my 60th garden now for this year 2023. Cheers
@chriskourlos4407
@chriskourlos4407 Год назад
You are so very detailed im gonna try it. Fantastic build mr.🎉
@jamilagriffin7521
@jamilagriffin7521 Год назад
Thank you so much for this 😊. You're the first person to give Every step. I'll be trying this method immediately.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil Год назад
Woo hoo! So glad to hear :) Thanks for watching!
@jklphoto
@jklphoto Год назад
Great looking trellis. I think I will just overlap the 2x2s and run a stainless bolt/washer/nut thru at the top so it can be easily folded and stored off-season. A lot easier to construct and possibly sturdier without those angled cuts and screws.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil Год назад
Interesting! Thanks for sharing :)
@eileenmcloughlin4778
@eileenmcloughlin4778 Год назад
Sounds and looks good. I think I will try it this year. 😊
@jamiem3575
@jamiem3575 2 года назад
Hey Jordan! Happy spring!! Isn’t it lovely to be out gardening again? Great job on the comparison and delivery of the best cucumber trellis. I love this and I will be giving it a go. Although I’m not nearly as handy as you are. 😆 you make it look easy.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Hahha oh goodness it's funny because my little brother is a red seal carpenter and builder so whenever I do a wood working project I feel a little self-conscious as he would do it so much better!
@elizabethkay1319
@elizabethkay1319 2 года назад
Hi Jordan! This looks great. I really want to try it in my garden. Thanks for sharing this!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Love it!! Send me a picture when it's all built!
@mcm3a812
@mcm3a812 2 месяца назад
Great idea. Very nice. We’re going to put one of these.
@shmittieschannel
@shmittieschannel 2 года назад
Excellent idea, I’ll be putting this together soon. Thanks!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Fantastic to hear!! It works beautifully!
@TheTrock121
@TheTrock121 Год назад
Love this! We already have around a dozen 16' 2x2's, so I may use 2x2 for the whole thing. Some rabbet joints may be in order.
@yourfavoriterealtor4720
@yourfavoriterealtor4720 Год назад
Love this!! Good job!
@csabilibu
@csabilibu Месяц назад
Thank You for great video!!!
@deborahsimpson4674
@deborahsimpson4674 Год назад
Thank you for your channel. I find gardening to be a great place for mental health. For me weeding is a stress relief. I appreciate you including about the 6’ and 4’ change on your trellis because it gives gardeners options, depending on their own personal space. I do not have a large quantity of yarn, but do you think that cotton butcher twine might have the same positive results? Instead of buying plastic cords for tying plants up, I bought a whole roll of butcher twine from my local butcher shop. Best $6 I ever spent for gardening!
@ronmounts8075
@ronmounts8075 3 месяца назад
Thats Absolutely Badass!!!!!
@elizabethhendriks9030
@elizabethhendriks9030 Год назад
hi! love your channel, just subscribed, really like your teaching style Jordan! I’m so going to make your trellis!
@dianac2596
@dianac2596 Год назад
Excellent trellis. Great job!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil Год назад
Thanks Diana! I just harvest another 40-50 cucumbers off of mine yesterday! It just blows my mind how well it works!
@cookienomnom310
@cookienomnom310 Год назад
I I built The Structure for the cucumbers Now where do I plant the cucumbers right in the center of the structure or on the outside of it it doesn't matter Very good video thank you
@TheRose704
@TheRose704 2 года назад
I am learning soooo much from you and your fantastic videos. Thank you!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Ah thank you so much for sharing this Lena!! Thrilled to be growing with you! How did you come across us??
@TheRose704
@TheRose704 2 года назад
@@MindandSoil While searching gardening tips on the internet, I came across your site and subscribed to your emails and newsletter in the fall of last year. You go way far and beyond providing excellent tips and information. I have been gardening for years but always open to learning more. Thank you for providing sound and expert gardening advice.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
@@TheRose704 Ah amazing!! Thanks so much for sharing that - thrilled to have you in the community! :D
@daphnemitchell7817
@daphnemitchell7817 Год назад
Thanks for sharing.
@JohnHenrySheridan
@JohnHenrySheridan Месяц назад
Cool, Thanks !
@TheKdemchuk
@TheKdemchuk 2 года назад
I would also love to see what you would suggest for a vine tomato trellis (next video idea... nudge, nudge : )
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Kristin you say it like It wasn't already on the docket for the next video 😝😝😝 - expect to see it in 1-2 weeks!
@andreakent96
@andreakent96 2 года назад
New subscriber! Love this content! Not enough garden content out there on how to make affordable garden structures. Thanks!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Ah thanks so much Andrea!! We recently did a squash trellis and raspberry trellis and are about to do a tomato trellis video. If there are any others that you'd need just let us know! :D
@andreakent96
@andreakent96 2 года назад
@@MindandSoil I’ll be needing a tomato trellis really soon… was planning on doing a T-post/cattle panel situation but now I think I’ll wait to see how you do it!
@JoannaJames-hk6eb
@JoannaJames-hk6eb Год назад
Thank you I'm going to make one
@WildBill1911
@WildBill1911 Год назад
Great video. I'll try this year and hopefully increase my cucumber yield. I like to build and work in my shop so I may end up making enough to give away to friends.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil Год назад
Woo hoo! Sounds like a great plan! Good luck and thanks for watching :)
@somadinasmbg
@somadinasmbg Год назад
I just got inspired 💯❤....thank you for sharing. ❤🇳🇬❤
@cassileigharts
@cassileigharts 2 года назад
I needed this today.
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Here for you! ❤️
@brentshepardson3532
@brentshepardson3532 Год назад
What an amazing channel!
@robertmaloney2978
@robertmaloney2978 Год назад
great helpful video
@garyabudsr1245
@garyabudsr1245 2 года назад
Thanks, I’ll try that trellis idea,
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Love it Gary! If you have any questions during the build just let leave them here and I'll respond within a day!
@Cloudy2clarity
@Cloudy2clarity Год назад
Hi Jordan! Thanks for your channel. It makes me smile. I’m in my second gardening season and healing post-viral illness. I appreciate the simple solutions. What are the screws you used for the trellis?
@kassiefouts9882
@kassiefouts9882 2 месяца назад
An A-frame makes sense. I've had a lot of luck sticking them on arched walkway trellises. Or Arch trellises that go over top of seating areas and a sand box for my kids to give them shade.
@gwenjohnston-petrarch5071
@gwenjohnston-petrarch5071 Год назад
Jordan I love your channel. I also like your motivation. Even without additional mental health problems gardening is just plain good for the soul. Question: what if I want to build a trellis that has a wider footprint with a little more space at the apex? Would I cut the angles shorter than 9inches or make that angle cut longer? I’m not that mechanically inclined so I’d love the advice. 😊
@JimKlepper-jd5pz
@JimKlepper-jd5pz 3 месяца назад
I love this. So simple, inexpensive, and elegant. I am going to build this this weekend for my cucumbers. Do you think this would also work well for squash?
@anthonymarquez2035
@anthonymarquez2035 2 месяца назад
Great info…. Thx👍🤠
@awbranson
@awbranson Год назад
Hi, appreciate the time you take on the videos. I've already started building my trellis! Any suggestion on the type of yarn to use? Are certain types better than others (cheaper?). Thanks!
@stacyclark5910
@stacyclark5910 Год назад
What type of squash works best on this trellis? Thx! I love these garden structures!
@lynndifer4163
@lynndifer4163 2 года назад
Very cool! I don’t have all of your fancy tools and I don’t want to shade out my bush beans so I’m trying a leaning trellis this year, kind of like your squash trellis last year. Hopefully will allow room to grow without them laying on the ground and maybe I can fit a lettuce or two underneath
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Yup absolutely! That's a great decision and it will work well for you. Let those suckers run wild!
@dereklonewolf9011
@dereklonewolf9011 2 месяца назад
Great video young fella 🥒🥕🥔🌶 I'm always looking to improve my raised planters. Last year was a bumper crop as a queen bee moved onto my property & she's back same place again. I share my vegetables with family n friends & helps feed us thro the winter with my harvested whitetail n grouse. 74+🍁 hunter Yorkshire expat
@SwartzAC
@SwartzAC 2 года назад
Love it
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Yeow!
@user-ov7mc8ib5m
@user-ov7mc8ib5m Год назад
Jordan in your 4ft teepee for cucumbers , how many plants do you put under them to grow up them?
@carlk8308
@carlk8308 2 месяца назад
How is the trellis set over the cucumber plants? Centered or to one side? Or are they growing up both sides? Gonna build this today. Thanks for the video!
@fallonbug
@fallonbug 2 года назад
Hey there! This is my first year with a vegetable garden. I'm curious how far apart you would plant your cucumber plants, how many would you plant for this size trellis.. would they be planted on each side or under it? Just started following you and will keep watching. Thanks!!😊
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Fallon! I am SO excited to hear this! Have you checked out our Live Recording of 10 Tips I wish I knew in my first year of gardening? If not let me know and I'll send you the link :). Secondly, AMAZING question! So I'm going to share a link below where you can download our garden planning guide. In there is a table that covers the spacing for every vegetable you might grow. For cucumbers, I recommend going with 1 per 2 square feet. Use this as a starting point and adjust over the coming seasons based on what you find works best for you (there's no right or wrong). For this particular structure, it is 4ft in length and I fit 3 on each side (and I leave the inside open with no plants) for a total of 6. And with the suckers being able to sprawl it results in TONS of cucumbers (with the right sun!). Amazing question and any others that you have through the season just drop them as a comment on any video and you'll get a response from me within 24hrs :D
@jaynhawk2724
@jaynhawk2724 Год назад
Hi, I am in Surrey, UK. If I just wanted to do two or three plants, can I use a ladder trellis like your squash one (I assumed I can use it for courgettes as well)? Love your videos. Lived in Columbus for ten years and found the gardening a bit different to here climate wise so grow my cucumbers in a greenhouse.
@patriciaromero145
@patriciaromero145 Год назад
Can you use a tomato trellis for Japanese cucumbers? I bought a tiny plant and did not know it was a climbing plant! Thank you! Loved your video!
@gregwilusz5696
@gregwilusz5696 9 дней назад
Hi I love growing Cucumbers I made a Trellis out of PVC pipe and some webbing it works perfectly. Wish I could send a picture!!!
@billastell3753
@billastell3753 2 месяца назад
The best trellis I have found is a sheet of 4 X 8 foot welded wire mesh used to reinforce concrete mounted on two t bars hammered into the ground at each end. Simple cheap and lasts for decades. I remove each year to accommodate tilling but in a no til garden it could be left in place
@krpersonaltraining4131
@krpersonaltraining4131 Год назад
I will definitely try this. How far apart do you space your cucumbers and I assume you plant 2 rows?
@jeffreynavallo6684
@jeffreynavallo6684 Год назад
Hey Josh on the cukes trellis how many plants did plant under it? And did start in the center or 2 rows?
@user-nx6ec7su4p
@user-nx6ec7su4p 8 месяцев назад
Helluva trellis.
@gerryhache7310
@gerryhache7310 Год назад
Wondering what area you live? First time I watch you, but I subscribed, can't wait to make one. All the best to you.
@barryhoven9861
@barryhoven9861 14 дней назад
I am planning on using a miter box to make my cuts do you know what angle the tops of each end piece is cut to?
@raediseburns6282
@raediseburns6282 Год назад
Great trellis! My garden is up against a fence and if I build an A-frame, I fear the back of the plants won’t get any sun, so should my trellis then be built like the one you made for your tomatoes?
@KGNAHDEE-a.k.a.PeanutsnCorn
how many cucumber seeds do you put on each side? i'm going to build this right now, thanks, looks like a great idea
@NatureLover-ss4ef
@NatureLover-ss4ef Год назад
Hi, Do you have any paticular favorite type of cucumber you like to grow? The ones in your video looks like marketmore cucumbers?
@philkc2446
@philkc2446 Год назад
What do you feed the cumbersome to make them grow. Last year couldn’t grow any
@LuckyFigFarm
@LuckyFigFarm 2 года назад
Hybrid gardening / workshop video … perfect!
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Haha that's a good way of describing it! Glad that you enjoyed it! :D
@kiemenafishingenterprises943
I need this cucumber trellis
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil Год назад
Yes!! A bunch of people used it this past year and it did amazing for them as well!
@frankies.8325
@frankies.8325 Год назад
Any suggestions for planting at 6300 ft in Colorado ? Too hot or too much sun ?
@corneliawright8292
@corneliawright8292 Год назад
How can you do this with container cuccumbers? Your video was so helpful
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil Год назад
Great question Cornelia! You could still build this and then just place it at the base of the plants (i.e. one of the legs in each of the grow bags or even on the ground) and allow them to grow up it from there - you would just have to train them on to it a bit at the beginning (to do this simply use a little bit of twine to tie them on to the AFrame Trellis with a bit of twine). If you wanted something specifically in the container then you could do more of a teepee structure. For this, just get 3 pieces of bamboo or garden stakes. Put them as deep as possible into the container and then take some twine and pull the three stakes together and tie them together with the twine. Then weave the twine around the outside of the three pieces with about 4" between each row until you reach the bottom! My preference is the AFrame structure but the teepee approach will help them grow vertically as well
@robynmacneil3554
@robynmacneil3554 24 дня назад
This is wonderful. I'm going to do this tomorrow morning. Just one quick question, how many cucumber plants per trellis? Just one or can it accommodate two plants? Thank you so much!
@TheFenwayman1912
@TheFenwayman1912 Год назад
Do I plant the cucumbers directly under the first string of yarn or a little on the inside or outside.?
@amandamcclure5197
@amandamcclure5197 2 года назад
Thanku for your video! What else could be used besides yarn?
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Great question Amanda! Any kind of rope would work - it doesn't need to be super strong as they aren't too heavy. Fishing line is another really good option. I like to use yarn because I can then pop it in the compost afterwards :)
@DDiamondRRuby
@DDiamondRRuby 4 месяца назад
Did I miss it, what variety of cucumbers did you grow? They look very healthy.
@jarrettmaryframe2278
@jarrettmaryframe2278 Год назад
Would all varieties of cucumbers grow well with this arrangement? We usually grow burpless cucumbers. Also, with this size trellis, did you plant your seeds in hills and how many seeds?
@RYoung09
@RYoung09 Год назад
So do you just plant the cucumber directly under the trellis
@kitty_1960
@kitty_1960 Год назад
I am planning on buying a 16 foot hog panel and making an arch out of it. Have you tried that before?
@wynastewart2731
@wynastewart2731 Год назад
Can you make it foldable? I like to be able to store my trellis''s flat.
@sheliadeakin9795
@sheliadeakin9795 Год назад
I’m a new gardener & very anxious to learn the basics of how to grow optimal product from the space I have …. How far apart do you put the plants under the a frame. Seed package says 4’ apart???
@megancook68
@megancook68 Год назад
I’m looking to do a 30 foot long trellis.. obviously I need to make smaller sections. Currently my beds are 3 feet apart but I want to put a trellis that is 5 feet so it would have to go in each of my beds .. this is so I have a walkway underneath for people to enjoy as the vegetables grow up around them. I’m also going to light up the walkway with solar lights. What do you recommend to use and how big of a span for each section I’m guessing 4’L I would like the height to be 7 feet once in the ground so that if any fruit Bears comes down, it’s not hitting most people in the head note, I’m not only using it for cucumbers, but any type of gourd or watermelon, etc. cantaloupe you name it I’ve got 30 feet of space and can plant on either side .. what do you think I should use for the trellising up? Meaning there’s a roll of temporary fencing that I could mold around these frames I’m not for sure if it’s sturdy enough for some of these plants and I’m also trying to be cost effective this is why I chose not to use cattle panel and metal stakes. It was gonna be over $500 I would need nine cattle panels +4 steaks for each panel which is 36 in total..
@louannefournier7018
@louannefournier7018 2 месяца назад
Where do you plant the cucumbers? Right underneath the a-frame in the middle or closer to where they are staked?
@johnhaywood9946
@johnhaywood9946 Год назад
What are the burlap bags in background of your shop
@giorgiomallia9267
@giorgiomallia9267 Год назад
Can you plant the Cucumbers directly underneath the a frame right on the centre or can you plant them in between the outer posts?
@angiespencer4156
@angiespencer4156 Год назад
My cucumber leaves are pretty crispy is that normal??? Thanks for any info you might be able to share
@innas5882
@innas5882 Год назад
hi what kind of yarn do you usually use?
@Wlad214
@Wlad214 2 месяца назад
Where do you plant the actual cucumbers once you’ve built the trellis? Should you plant them just outside the crossbeams and A frame or directly underneath?
@markrodriguez3095
@markrodriguez3095 Год назад
How do know when to harvest. I surely don't want to prematurely early, rather they still can big bigger. Thank you.
@JigmeChhimi
@JigmeChhimi Год назад
Love the video simple I just had a question I'm not a woodworker I'd like the angle but I like my angle to be more the base spot of it to be more wide how do you come up with you know to cut the 9 in or the 6 in other than just doing a trial run how do I come up with that angle to cut I wanted to bit wider than the footprint you have
@hobin1433
@hobin1433 2 года назад
I wish I had your carpentry skills
@MindandSoil
@MindandSoil 2 года назад
Haha thanks Chris!!
@russellewandowski843
@russellewandowski843 Год назад
I have never had any luck growing cucumbers. The vines produce many, many flowers, I'll get a few fruits and then the whole plant starts to wither. Ant growing tips would be appreciated. Thanks!
@donnat4895
@donnat4895 Год назад
How many cucumber plants could that 4 ft trellis accommodate? And do you plant on both sides? Great video 😊
@marieharvey7719
@marieharvey7719 Год назад
Hi Donna - it looks like your question is answered in the post above this one. 6 - 3 on each side.
@amyroberts7248
@amyroberts7248 2 месяца назад
Do I plant my plants on the outside of the trellis or in the inside of it??
@twicefreed
@twicefreed 6 месяцев назад
I want to plant cucumbers and zucchinis on the same bed. Would you let them share the same trellis or have a dedicated trellis for each?
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