Vaccines & Freedom | Philosophy Tube 

@@bcw1313 Good thinking. We must come to those conclusions first and be pre-disappointed before the first second of the video airs 🙄. This is probably going to be a 45 minute+ deep dive into the topic that will challenges some of our beliefs and leave us with things to think about more deeply on our own, rather than being spoon fed a hot take tweet on the subject, which unfortunately has been the only “discourse” that most people seem willing to engage in on the matter. So why don’t you wait until after watching the whole video before before whining?

Woo!

BREAD 👍

@@bcw1313 I can appreciate this. I’m probably overstepping here, but what may be happening is that you’re consuming too much content and too many thinkpieces. “But Spam,” you may be thinking, “I want to be well read on the matter so I can make the most informed opinion!” What you’re actually doing, I would argue, is outsourcing your thinking to the likes of bread tube content creators. So when they state an opinion you don’t agree with, it’s not enough to just disagree, it’s always a broaderstroke “problem” with the “community.” It’s not. It may be a consensus among a single digit number of content creators, but don’t mistake that for the community writ large. And I say this from a place of love, I had to step away myself and reconsider the amount of content I was consuming. I wish you healing and peace of mind.

@@gnocchidokie it is also good if we disagree. We are not a hive mind. Unity on the left means united in purpose and praxis. Theoretical disagreements are valid and should be encouraged.

Then get more dollars. It's not hard.

Spot on Gabe, if only it was that simple for everyone to get those dollars.

@@thedarwinist672 SO TRUE!!!!!! just go to the BIG MONEY BANK and ask for CASH MONEY BABYYYYYY in COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE'S MONETARY DENOMINATION and you will be set to VOTE with your DOLLAR!!!!! that's how it works, it works for EVERYone, EVERYtwo and EVERYtree!!!!!

@@thedarwinist672 money doesn't grow on trees.

@@Vher_ don’t forget to plant your MONEY TREE **now**

Yeah… some of the stuff coming from that was basically, “I would rather my child die from this deadly vaccine preventable disease than to be autistic.”

I'm autistic and I don't believe medical procedures that require taking a degree of risk should be mandatory and and coercion that is undertaken to further these mandates is deeply immoral.

I feel you, I hope that at the very least none of your relatives are/were anti-vaxxers at that time. Take care of yourself!

@@Pebble_Collector true, but there is literally ZERO evidence that vaccines cause autism.

I'm the eldest of two -- we are both autistic. However, I was diagnosed at 23, while my brother was diagnosed at around 4. I was fully vaccinated, but my parents fell into being antivax when my brother was diagnosed. They're not like that now (though they do seem very defensive about it to this day) but I find it funny that vaccinated or not, both me and my brother are autistic. Because duh

Oh my god, that is horrific

Your grandma was old and prone to heart attacks, you cant blame a medication for that 🤦‍♂️🤡

Yikes...Hope y'all are doing okay and that memories of her are helping in remembering her positively. (I obviously never met her, but based on your comment I am guessing you did enjoy your time with her.)

Did you not get one for any of the above reasons?

@@allisons6910 I'm fully vaccinated.

Is eugenics bad? Incest is basically illegal, incest prohibition is literally just a form of eugenics, being able to know that a child you're going to have will almost certainly die at a young age in pain mind you and that the option to abort would stop this from happening is eugenics. I'm sorry but you eugenics is generally a good thing so long as it's not mixed in with racism that's my personal opinion.

How ironic that parents of children with autism likely have it themselves… or made a baby with someone who did… or both! 😬

Thank you for sharing this experience. The phenomenon is not something I've heard of before, but it more concretely describes the understanding I have that the deflection is often about a critical level of fear.

THIS sounds very important and worth exploring more

Interesting point!

this is a good comment

This is so interesting. I’ve heard all of the arguments in the video and seen the debunkings over and over, so it’s hard not to be frustrated with the voluntarily unvaccinated, but this gives me a new perspective. Thanks for sharing it!

I'm sorry, friend :(

Same thing in South Africa unfortunately.

*cries in brazilian*

Well, shit! Can we be the rulers' friends then? Would they give money to us is we were all their friends? Do they need friends? They can have a few hundred million then!

I STAND with innocent people in Russia 🇷🇺

I'm sick and have spent the last few days throwing up badly, causing chest pains due to the spasms. It hurts to laugh that hard T-T

Is HPV both Human PeePee Virus and Human Pussy Virus?

Yea I literally died

I liiterally had to pause the video to catch my breath.

Followed immediately by “in the early naughties” (00’s)

My grandma was a kid when the smallpox and polio vaccines became available. She has the same view towards folks her age as your mom does.

Here's the funny thing about polio, almost everybody who gets it just gets flu-like symptoms and either dies from it or gets better, the paralysis and loss of lung function and other sorts of chronic post-polio effects were not terribly common. It's all you hear about anymore with polio because no one is catching polio anymore. Eventually long covid patients with respiratory or other disabilities as a result of the disease are going to be all that's left, and we will go on to associate covid with a long-term chronic condition rather than the rapid onset killer plague that it actually was.

My grandma feels the same way. She was telling me about how horrible it was that you couldn't go into hospitals without hearing the iron lungs going and that that horror she felt towards it is not only why she gets vaccinated but that the lack of exposure to it for younger generations is why they don't always realize the good vaccines do. She's very upset that two of her three children (fortunately, the two that aren't my dad) refuse to get the vaccine

@@AlRoderick I wonder if we talked about long covid more, would that help get through to the "what about long term vaccine side effects" fence-sitters?

@@jacobgasson8016 I remember one horrible anecdote from someone in a doctor's office I guess a couple years before the pandemic. This was a two-year-old, poor thing, and their mother was an anti-vaxxer, and hadn't gotten them the MMR shot. And they'd gotten measles. And they'd had a bad go of it, but had recovered and was still alive; was just there for a check-up. But this poor little kid, this toddler, was just sitting by themselves in a corner of the pædiatrician's waiting room, watching the other kids that were also waiting playing in the little play area there. And it absolutely broke their heart, the person who worked there who was relating it said, because they obviously wanted to go and run around and poke into things and play with the toys and the other kids, and they didn't seem quite able to work out quite why they couldn't. But everyone else could see why. It's because, due to an unfortunate complication of the measles that they had had, both their arms, and both their legs, had all had to be amputated. So here was this poor little kid, who had barely even learned to walk, who now was basically a head and torso and that's all, completely unable to even go across the room to play with the other kids. And why? Because their mother had believed a since-discredited "study" that the bloody Lancet never ought to have published in the first place (it wasn't even peer-reviewed!! And I don't know that I will *ever* forgive them for the damage they've caused by printing it regardless), and refused to get her child vaccinated with the MMR vaccine. Because she has been told that it could possibly harm her child, and she didn't believe the subsequent studies and statements that all said that, no, it was *fine* actually; and she hadn't known what the disease might do to get child if they *didn't* get it. Sure, it might just be a fever and badly swollen throat and itchy spots everywhere for a few weeks and that's it. Or it could make you sterile. Or blind. Or deaf. Or, it ends up, it might damage the tissues of the extremities so badly that the only option is amputation. Or, heck, it might just kill you outright. We probably *need* to cover what these diseases that we can now prevent with vaccines actually *do* to you. History can be horrific sometimes. I know that. And I understand wanting to keep stuff age-appropriate. But I really, honestly think that sometimes, we *need* to give kids that information. Because sometimes, as bad as some knowledge can be, sometimes *not* knowing can be *worse.* Sigh. My dad is in his 90's. He says that my daughter, his granddaughter, reminds him of his cousin he had when he was little. "A real little blondie, she was, like this one," he said to me. She died when she was about five or so. Of diptheria. There wasn't any vaccines for it back then. *Please,* guys, get yourselves and your kids vaccinated!! If you don't trust the governments, or the companies making it, then please do at least trust that their scientist peers who are reviewing their studies for any kind of errors, in process, assumptions, conclusions, biases, *anything,* are going to most likely have enough of the people doing those reviews who dislike the first bunch, or are spiteful towards them, or jealous of them or a position they got, or *something,* that they will *gleefully* pounce on *anything* not up to scratch in their study. Believe me, if the results weren't valid, the peer review process will find it out.

Agree. "It was really fast" is actually "this took 30-some-odd years" all told. And clinical trials for them had ten times the participants usual clinical trials have. But again, piling on evidence isn't working. (Not criticizing your comment, fwiw. I have Larry parents, and I started with evidence and that did very much nothing)

@@MeldaRavaniel oh of course, its just a little fact that gets swept aside easily even to people who accept the evidence. Like.... they cured HIV, they created a cure for a horrid disease that has been weaponized for decades against LGBT people and poor countries, its beautiful.

I was a little surprised this wasn't given more focus as well tbh!

This, I was writing an article about the mortgage electronic registration system about 8 years ago, and kept running into articles about progress on a vaccine for another coronavirus called "MERS." Helpful information now, but supremely unhelpful at the time 😂

Whenever this is mentioned, I really can't help but mention that we went from pretty much biplanes to full on jets in the scope of 6 years. And all because the world got really, really, really motivated to spend a shit ton of money on getting us there... of course at that time, it very much was to kill other people... but still, if humanity gets motivated and is actually willing to put in the money, things can go so fast. Really all that is holding us back from living in a better world is the fact that some rich people want to get even richer... if only they would profit more out of preventing diseases rather than making diseases chronic, we'd be able to get rid of so many diseases... it really is quite a disgusting thing to think about...

Pertussis? That’s pretty rare in adults. Hope you got your tdap after that and hope you’re recovering well. Lung scarring is no joke.

That blows, I'm sorry. Thank you for sharing that.

@@johnwrath3612 due to all the people not getting vaccinated, rates are skyrocketing. Still low overall of course.

Similar thing happened to me many years ago. I was REALLY sick with high fever, so sick I didn't have the energy to go and see a doctor, I waited a couple of days until I felt a little bit better.... When I got there the doctor was kind of chocked when he looked at me and after taking the tests, he insisted that I took anti-biotics against the specific germ that had infested me. (In my country, doctors try to limit prescriptions of anti-biotics.) My answer: But, I already feel a little bit better, sooo.... His answer: Take the anti-biotics! Reluctanty I did. Still, In the back of my mind I was still thinking "this germ CAN in some cases be defeated by healthy people"..... 😂

I hope you mean "soccer", because those other footballs...not so helpful

Part of the issue with those who've had adverse effects is that it appears to be mostly the antivaxxers who claim they know several people who've died or had severe effects, where as the majority of people who've gotten the vaccine don't know anyone who's had severe adverse effects. It's hard to take seriously

This is actually the very core of the so called “anti vax” movement. There are of course fringe extremism’s as there is with any movement but MOST of us either suffered an injury, or our kid suffered an injury. And after injury, you become largely gaslit, pushed out of healthcare, and left to figure it out on your own. So that’s what a lot of us did. We had to figure it out. And when we started digging, we started realizing that the science, and the history propping vaccines up on this pedestal, isn’t as pristine and up front as we were told. We learned injury and serious side affects and even death aren’t NEARLY as rare as we’re told. And as the vaccine schedule continues to grow- our only real goal is to secure the right of the people to make their own informed decisions.

I always found that the irony of the “protect those that can’t get vaccinated” arguments hilarious. On one hand they say we must protect those that can’t get vaxxed. All while also refusing to acknowledge the injured that should not get vaxxed. They end up mandating the very people they claim they’re protecting. I am really sorry about what your girlfriend is going through. If there is any way we can help support her let me know.

My best friend died 3 days after having received the vaccine.

Vaccine injury never gets taken seriously

Hey, glad you made it through and shared your story with us. Hope you feel better soon.

@@timekeeper2538 Abbie outright says in the video, if you don't want to look up a paper, that while you can still be a vector if vaccinated, vaccinated people clear out the virus much faster than the unvaccinated. Thus, less time infectious and thus, decreased opportunity to infect others. There's a citation in the video at the point she makes the comment too if you do want to look it up for yourself. Also, you have turned up in almost every comment thread I have opened, getting agro with people. What is your deal? Do you just like to fight behind the anonymity a basic google icon and random username gives you? If you want answers, chill out and engage in good faith. Most people here are happy to talk if you don't start by just accusing them of whatever takes your fancy.

@@timekeeper2538 I hope you might realize that your responses seem a bit odd, and perhaps a bit too accusatory to lead to a productive conversation here, especially since it seems you're already assuming myself and others are acting in bad faith. I must say, I'm not even sure what you're trying to assert, or from where you're drawing your assumptions. If you truly want to have a conversation with authentic responses, it might be easier for us to understand your position if you assert it directly, instead of posing questions in the role an interrogator. Hopefully you can respond in earnest and expand on what you believe and why. I am genuinely curious, although I can't guarantee I'll be able to respond in a timely manner since I have other responsibilities right now. Cheers.

@@timekeeper2538 You're diving into each comment section to cause arguments. Get a life.

@@timekeeper2538 no one is guaranteed to spread Covid if they have it. There is absolutely things people can do to not spread Covid even after unknowingly being infected, vaccinated or not. People just don’t live that way, generally. The lack of empathy is pretty clear though. Have a good day

You're just writing words from the video, we all saw it, we all heard what she said

@@TheEvilCheesecake nothing is new under the sun, including this comment, including yours, including mine

@@TheEvilCheesecake And they found it an amazing bit? what went wrong in your brain here? aren't people allowed to praise or just share their opinions? Really going against the whole point of the video you're commenting under. Realitycheckyourself next time please

@@TheEvilCheesecake Oh yeah, that's called a quote. People have done it through the history of civilization and the written word to highlight something someone else said. Cool, right? 😂

@@Alic4444 Speaking of quotes, I love your response, mind if I quote you on that the next time I see a dumb comment like @RealityCheckIns just posted?

@@LordRykard9376 i take it you didnt watch the full video. vaccines work. including the covid vax. to say otherwise is illogical and does ignore the science.

She’s giving them a massive benefit of the doubt though. The truth is most antivaxxers are grifters or really, really stupid.

@@thelouster5815 true though

welcome to the channel!

Yeah, since they are honestly just scared. And yelling at a scared person isn't gonna help.

And people with lots of dollars get lots of votes.

Yet through existing , you are voting too. Contribute your verse to the play.( Leaves ot Grass)

@@PitLord777 The dollar was just a metaphor for the rich or wealthy. Dont take it *literally.* She meant the poor, dummy. Most of us are. By the way, the original liberalism (Locke...) was meant only for the upperclass who own land, .... & *not for the poor who were the* *majority of the people of course.* Even "democracy" back then was meant for "the master class" which was the white owners & rich..... Even *citizenship* was denied to the poor first as well as to women; colored people....

@@trojanhorse860 I never took it literally. 'Voting with your dollars' not only means poor people can't vote, but the rich and wealthy have more voting power than the middle classes.

@@PitLord777 Ok then, sorry. Have a nice day. Thanks. Cheers.

@@CynicalBastard "contracting CV with major symptoms" that's not really the only concern superspreader. Also, got any backup on the supposed miocarditis?

@@Guimhj Studies have shown a slightly increased risk from getting the vaccine - and a massively increased risk if you get Covid. And of course he has no idea what it is or how serious it is...

@@CynicalBastard This is mathematically incorrect logic. The risk of myocarditis from the vaccine is much smaller than the risk from getting COVID. Given the infection rate of COVID being very high among the unvaccinated with more recent strains, that means that it is mathematically the case that getting vaccinated is a better way of protecting a child from myocarditis than leaving them unvaccinated. Their parents may well have the best of intentions, but they are acting in a way that does not serve those intentions, quite possibly (likely even) unintentionally.

@@CynicalBastard There is risk in anything, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no mathematical or rational reason to believe you are protecting a child from myocarditis by not vaccinating them. To the contrary, whether it is your intention or not, you are endangering them.

@@CynicalBastard No, you didn't show any reasons. You said a number of false things that can be obviously demonstrated to be false, as I already have. Your argument is not founded in logic, it is founded in a logical fallacy.

For me it's not about reassuring myself, it's about venting frustrations. I know not taking the vaccine endangers everybody and it does feel selfish not to take it if you can because of that. This is frustrating, and hearing other ppl frustrated is cathartic

@@trollololol4601 How is not taking the vax endangering everyone else? If the vax works, then the vaxxed are protected. If the vax doesn't work, then taking the vax means no benefit conferred on anyone, and therefor no additional danger to anyone.

@@trollololol4601 wrong, Pfizer have since stated there was no proof from the trials that the vaccine prevented transmission, so not taking it didn't endanger others any more than having it, in fact not taking it and not being aloud to go to things would be safer lol

When I call anti-vaxers stupid and wrong and dumb and uneducated, I'm under no illusions I'll "change their mind". I don't want to change their mind. I don't care. They're wrong, and stupid and dumb and if they feel embarrassed or shamed or like I'm judging them GOOD. They are putting immuno-comprimised people in danger, me in danger, my family in danger and I don't have room to empathise with selfish destructive morons who care more about being morally consistent than mitigating the harm they cause to the rest of us. When I shame them, I want them to feel shame. They don't care about my feelings, my wellbeing or my health and their *choices* prove that. I don't have to care about theirs.

I just don’t like them and want them to suffer for the suffering they cause. I genuinely believe the world would be better without them in it

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 ok

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 are you tryina be like "if you were like me this would never have happened" or what

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 like i'm on the ace spectrum too but... no one asked? it sounds like you're implying that you're better than them. also, you need to get pap smears because you could still have cervical cancer.

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 The correct term is allosexual. Please stop embarrassing me, another asexual.

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 You still need to get PAP smears on time, HPV is not the only problem that PAPS are used to detect. Also, super weird flex?

I can confirm that mental health care in the US is sporadically available, generally mediocre at best, and dangerous at worst. Frankly, it is the 2 ton elephant in the room with any discussion of human rights, medical care, or discrimination, or poverty/homelessness. IMHO telemedicine hasn't made this better because psychiatry is supposed to be anchored in the science of medicine, in understanding your patients physical condition, as well as their mental health issues (not that many of them follow that or the oath to do no harm). If you're a mental health care provider in N. Central CA, Bay area, or Capitol Corridor, I challenge you to show me different. I have Medi-Cal, and have never had access to a fully competent psychiatrist, haven't been able to get treatment for my ADHD, and have had trouble getting my PTSD taken seriously. And, I haven't dared in-patient, verifiable evidence of worthlessness and/or detrimental outcome. Adding my rant to yours. Stay strong. We need to support each other and fight for our rights.💜✊

I feel for you. I'm not currently suicidal but I've definitely had those times in my life where it was inescapable. I almost checked myself in for that and other things but was terrified of this exact thing. Crisis management for mental issues is a joke. I'm lucky I'm on the right meds. I sincerely hope your situation improves soon. I know this is obvious but you might want to try a hotline. Sometimes they're meh but sometimes they're a perfect distraction during key moments of high tension.

I could see how most of those things could be used to attempt suicide and why it would be good not to give them to someone who is suicidal unless supervised, but at the same time that feels like a dehumanizing experience that would just make the root causes worse.

@@NightWing1800 Honestly, the most dangerous thing they had was the antidepressants. Certain antidepressants can lead to serotonin syndrome, and I know several people who have attempted or committed suicide through that.

I’m so sorry for the abuse you suffered. These horrible systems encourage people to not be seen as people, but as checklists. There’s the “take away things they could hurt themselves with” box- weighing actual risk with the harm that can be done by someone not having those things “takes too long”, and just gets in the way of the box being checked. Then there’s the “get them medicated” box- asking someone about their history with drugs to determine if some should be avoided “takes too long”, and just gets in the way of the box being checked. It’s the disease of carceral logic being spread farther and farther. A human being is not a human being, they are a number, to be moved around and managed like an entry in a database. It’s the dehumanizing cost of efficiency in the context of control.

After what you’ve learned about how having a vaccine for this respiratory virus ( such as the flu, never wiped out ) how do you feel about that the difference between vaxed and Unvaxed ability to spread the virus is now deemed the same. Oh and Justin Bieber and wife ?

It's not a fear of needles. It's a hatred towards authority thinking they can own my body. I have the right to die as I will. If you think I'm so contagious... you go get vaxxed, you stay 5 feet away. Don't try and get me to bow and kiss the ring of power. I'd rather be dead

I agree, although I doubt this channel is reaching many anti-vaxxers, which may be OK since you basically just called them "destructive".

Would you be willing to have an open conversation about why the covid 19 vaccine isnt what it was promised as... and about how the world's leading scientists got so much of this pandemic wrong? If you can question someones views, they have every right and responsibility to question your views.

@@SeanGiles-mj7wl I absolutely would. I would need you to start by presenting why you believe the vaccine wasn't what was promised and where members of the scientific community were wrong.

"Open discussion" is heavily curated. Channels like these are highly selective about what oppositional viewpoints they cover. They won't dare show a good one that stumps them! Just look at how many top level comments have less replies than advertised. The comments here are curated too. Why is that?

@@Brickcaster Why not try presenting a good one here and see if it gets removed? I'm not dismissing what you say at all, I'm just curious what group you mean by "Channels like these"

She did actually say that we kinda .... but not really.

And drug-resistant TB is becoming more common.

Smallpox has been eradicated and would've been a better example, though. But yes, sadly there was no global effort to eradicate TB, like there was with smallpox, and it passes between different species including cattle (so the med-resistant tb strains are more common than the measles resistant ones could've ever gotten) so even a global effort would be more difficult. And sadly, as was pointed out, the pharmaceutical companies follow financial and not health-related guidelines

​@@tadferd4340 I saw predictions, a long time ago, for a possible outbreak of, to skip the technical terms, very aggressive TB that isn't bothered by any antibiotics, and it looked like the back-story for _Left 4 Dead._ You know, "Two weeks after first infection"

Yes, just ask John Green about it.

Thank you for sharing this, disabled people rarely share their opinions, it's very important cuz, we able-bodied people inevitably hurt you, without ever realising. I'd like to learn more so we can learn to treat you people better

@@8lec_R disabled people frequently do, tho? You just haven't seen them? Look on disability Twitter...

@@EmeraldLavigne i don't use Twitter. Just RU-vid. And real life. Like bro, no one speaks about this shit IRL.

All ability is a fragile, temporary miracle. I didn't realize until I became disabled how invincible most people believe they are.

Hear, hear! I’m in my 20s and I love my friends and family all the more for taking care of themselves to protect me. Like self improvement Steve, many of them are healthy and fit (even I LOOK healthy and fit to most) and unlikely to suffer major consequences. But even if they had concerns (many of them had the same concerns - too rushed, big pharma, etc), they got it anyway because they wanted to do everything that they could do to protect others including and especially me. Nonetheless, Omicron hit and a bunch of young, healthy people I know got it. Some of them had symptoms for months. I finally got it myself after having been boosted and I STILL got pneumonia, had a flare-up, and the meds I had to take to fight that part slowed my immune system down so much that I got the worst sinus infection of my life. As a result, since the start of the year, I’ve had to add 6 different prescription medications to my life and have been sick everyday of 2022 thus far. All that is to say that I also think some people underestimate how debilitating ambulatory disability can be whether temporary or permanent. Death isn’t the only negative consequence.

Most importantly, diseases like cancer and Alzheimer involve molecules and cells that are native to our bodies. They are different only in minimal aspects. To make a vaccine against them is extremely difficult, because the fact that the differences are small means that such vaccines might target the healthy versions as well. Anyone with an auto-immune disease can tell you it's no fun if the immune system reacts to healthy parts of your body. A virus, on the other hand, is alien to the body and evolutionarily unrelated. The probability that there's something similar in our body is slim to nil. So coming up with vaccines is significantly easier). Hence also why we do have the HPC vaccine which PREVENTS cancer by preventing the viral infection causing it, whereas vaccines against manifest cancer are still experimental - but they're working on them. Breast cancer vaccines are already in trials - and the company which developed the first mRNA vaccine for COVID had actually been working on cancer vaccines before COVID came along and they jumped at the opportunity to prove the principle. Now they've turned back to cancer and given the resources they now have thanks to COVID, I'm pretty optimistic they can push that field forward significantly.

Special note to pathogenic diseases that don't have a vaccine like HIV. It mutates far too quickly for a vaccine to be effective, something we were concerned about with Covid19. HIV mutates so fast, you can actually get multiple simultaneous infections.

"extremely complex and not entirely understood." Exactly. If they were simple and understood completely then death would not exist. We would have the key to life and live forever. We will never understand medical science completely. Which is why antivaxers will always have a justifiable leg to stand on. Science has many answers but not all of em. Science itself recognizes it's own flaws, like the observer effect. However, science cannot be done without an observer. It is a catch-22. Until there is a new method of observation, we will travel down this rabbit hole.

My first reaction the vaccine was also this, but it's not hard to understand how a super deadly virus would get all the funding in the world, since the impact was so huge. Also if you just weigh the pros and cons of getting vaccinated (aka protecting other people around you who are weaker or can't take the vaccine), the 'choice' was reaaaally easy for me. Cancer and Alzheimers etc are not contagious, so there's no 'rush' even if we know how it works. Same goes for diseases like TBC and Ebola that only go rampant in third world countries.

since you mentioned cancer and vaccination: another fascinating thing that caused the vaccines to happen so fast was that the mRNA vaccines actually are a result of cancer research... they were intended for treatments there, but they also were a means to very fast development and manufacture of vaccines in general

Why is that "interesting" to you? It's a sub-par juvenile ironical observation, what's ground breaking about it?

The other thing I find is that, at least in the US (not sure if it might be a little less common in the UK and other countries), the hardcore antivaxxers overwhelmingly tend to also be the ones screaming about "blue lives matter" and proclaiming their complete faith in the police and prison industrial complex! I'm like... no, you're not distrusting of the government, you only dislike the government when you think they're getting in YOUR way of being able to do whatever the hell you want at all times, no mind to the consequences. You're completely and totally fine with them wreaking havoc on the lives of actually marginalized people.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Anne. Wishing you all the best for the future, stay strong xxx

I love Abigails videos too but I couldn't sit through this one. I can't sympathise with people that see elderly, disabled, immunocompromised lives as replaceable and unimportant. It's heartbreaking and I can't in my soul forgive people who refuse to protect others by doing something as little as wearing a mask and getting a small jab. I deeply sympathise with your fear of public spaces and leaving the house. The world is terrifying now and the fact people think that things will go back to normal if we just all take off the masks and force it is insanely terrifying. Sending love because you definitely aren't alone ♥

@@popotade4621 It's hard to see through a perspective you dont understand. This virus takes lives. The virus could have taken less lives if we all took it equally seriously. We didn't. Our lives or the lives of someone else we love could be next. We're human and we're scared.

It’s important for public health workers and philosophers to be able to empathize with these people. If their perspective can be understood maybe we can find a way to change their minds. You are a victim and absolutely do NOT have to empathize or do any emotional labor to change the mind of an antivaxxer. Covid has taken enough from you. My heart goes out to you. I’m sorry this happened.

@@popotade4621 huh?

It sounds like bringing you out of your comfort zone, was the moment required for your change. Maybe looking up local hospital stats like those and sharing them could be a strong way to convince people to get vaccinated. Skepticism in effectiveness and distrust in public health are strong defenses, but it sounds like they can be deterred by proximity to the issue as those arguments both tend to be vague and detached from our daily lives. Thanks for your comment, its a good one.

If you're young and healthy, your risk of death and hospitalisation is still very low regardless of the vaccine. For example "An unvaccinated young person is 15x more likely to be hospitalised". Your real risk goes from 1.5 per 100,000 down to 0.1 per 100,000, a large relative decline but miscule absolute change.

Good on you.

We all start off ignorant. A real mark of maturity is having the ability to recognize the evidence and be willing to change your mind when it's justified. Thank you so much for being open minded and for coming on board.

I’m really glad that motivated you, the hospitalization rate, I mean. I work in a hospital and people here who still won’t get the shots just tell me I (or the news) am lying about the numbers. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Woah! You know what that reminds me of: Mental illnesses presenting themselves as physical symptoms. Homeopathy (or any other placebo that works) may be able to treat this type of illness just as effectively as a medical treatment for an immune disorder for instance. If you are a doctor, or work in medicine, I would highly recommend reading the book "Nobody's Normal", or at least looking at some of the points the author makes. Basically, stigma is a non-medical cultural lens that constantly creates blindspots in treatment. This has less of an effect on doctors than on patients, because doctors are much more likely to trust and understand the results of research that disprove stigma. For instance, if a patient in the west (different parts of the world have VERY different stigma) has chronic pain, and the doctors have tested all known medical causes that match the symptoms, but there is still no medical cause, then, according to research, the pain could very well be caused by psychiatric illness, rather than an illness of the body that is yet understood. Keep in mind, that (in simplification) psychiatry is just a catch all for the type of medicine that doctors haven't been able to fully explain. The stigma that exists in the west is that mental illnesses are somehow less "real" than physical illnesses. That is simply wrong, but people get very upset over it. People will go to the ends of the earth to find a doctor who will tell them that their chronic fatigue and joint pain is caused by a virus or an immune disorder, when the much more rational culprit is a chronic mental illness.

Ethical? Obscene prices for water and sugar? Don’t make me laugh

@@milesmartig5603 I suffer from mental illness and luckily have a good health care network that believes I suffer from this. Sadly it is heavily stigmatized and very hard to find help. I believe the world is just not ready to accept the tolls of mental health issues on society. CPTSD and other mental diseases and disorders can easily be treated if it just gets more funding and recognition

using placebos? risky, but can be ethical - prescribing homeopathy? nope that is profiteering off of other peoples suffering and just gambling on "maybe placebo will work" if you want to ethically use placebos, do it with something inexpensive - ideally something they can prepare themselves and that fits with their pre-existing beliefs... like if they are a big fan of herbal remedies... suggest something in that realm that is harmless and maybe even has some unrelated benefits... if it makes them feel better, placebo might be able to do some lifting but that is still risky, if there is an underlying root cause that the body cant deal with and it goes without a proper diagnosis due to the placebos that then causes more and more damage until it becomes undeniable that theres something wrong and homeopathy is INCREDIBLY expensive... if you ask me, no practicioner that prescribes it, should be allowed to practice because either they cant be trusted to put their patients wellbeing first or they arent qualified to do their job

The unethical part is people profiting off other's ignorance. From your own words, if they just need the mind to change how it thinks, then why not promote mindfulness exercises to them that are free of cost?

We know the funding won't last. Work fast or loose all when the situation is presented is the work ethic.

There seemed to be something different about this video that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Perhaps the Gray Zone's article "Leaked files expose Syria psyops veteran astroturfing BreadTube star to counter Covid restriction critics" spotlight's what that is. Might also explain why this study could be done so quickly. "The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media." -- attributed to CIA Director William Colby While I have my doubts as to whether Colby actually said it, I'm pretty sure it was a reasonably accurate claim at the time and that it now includes the so called alternative media.

Yeah they were definitely completed as fuck, all of them.

How does it feel to be confused with the Royal Society and/or the Royal Family by the people who assume you're royal plants or something?

Royalists! (Kidding, plz keep doing what you’re doing)

2 shills, now it all makes complete sense.

@@doublenegation7870 what a top-tier response /s

Definitely follow (and visit!) RI for amazing lectures if you don't already. In fact, I've just watched one before I started this.

Does it give them a heart-boner? An affection erection?

It's not super common to use in humans for heart problems afaik, because of the *side effects*. There was a TV show recently actually about the discovery when it was being trialled for safety as a heart medication. It is, however, very common in Veterinary medicine as it doesn't have the same side effects on most animals as it does humans. Turns out we actually have a pretty weird method of achieving physiological arousal biologically speaking.

@@alexjames7144 could you elaborate on that? :o

@@starbreaker6740 About the comparative arousal methods? Lots of animals have an os penis (a bone in the penis) that provides a lot of the structure, and otherwise have more hefty supporting tissue so they don't really need to rely entirely on blood flow for erections. To offset the inconvenience of having a permanently hard rod attached to them, they retract it into themselves a lot more. Ours is entirely out all the time, with only the head becoming extra exposed when aroused. Whereas in most mammals it is covered and internal, arousal mainly just causes some muscular contractions and relaxation to cause it to emerge. So in animals the Viagra isn't going to give them a permanent erection like it would in humans, and is therefore quite useful for heart medication.

Making it out at a young age is quite difficult. I started a side hustle at 17, saved up and made some good investments. l'm 28,live on my own and having a good life for myself. Big ups to you and everyone out there trying

@@casinosimsek2027 Sounds like plan, how do you put money to work?

@@muyiwamg8841 Yes it sure is. I put in money in investments and get profits. That 's how I make more money without working. This does not sound new to you right ?

Thanks for replying me, I've heard so many people talk about investment but none had said how to do it right.

Am hoping on you can explain more on how you make extra income from investments

I absolutely empathise, having an antivax parent is such a weird and saddening experience. I know what it's like to want to understand but just being unable to. I needed this video a huge amount too.

One of the few reasonable and rational comments here. There are many issues here, but Trust is the biggest issue, there have been people who lived and died over simple trust issues like military evacuations because they didn't believe what an officer said, or was skeptical and vice versa. The hyperbole of information and misinformation at that just makes this alot worse, and then algorithms that encircle people and their information only make it worse. But well i'll remain hopeful for the common man~.

Actually, she was tested numerous times and most of her samples were positive. She was a carrier, and there are plenty of diseases where the carrier is not ill from the disease itself. Think about hemophilia and the fact that prince Alexei of Russia acquired the disease through his mother, who had no symptoms.

@rosabellavitaalvarez-calde5836 The point remains that she misinterpreted a legitimate hygiene concern as bigotry (which, frankly, probably was a factor in her infamy regardless).

I hear you (as a fellow asthmatic) I feel like the problem is the ableism present in society that's so unseen but ingrained that it seeps into everyday people, even those we love, like background radiation & those who don't stop and think about their own internal biases can easily fall into a place of security and privilege where they simply don't think about those of us who are disabled even if they do know people like us; It's so insidious.

Same issue here in my country. We aren't ready to open yet, we have barely hit 80% vaccinated (not even counting boosters which are very important for immunity against omincron) but the govt in all their all mighty wisdom have opened everything, even if someone in my family is sick with covid, I have to go to school or work. It's so stupid. I can't believe this same govt was the one that closed most of the country last year when we had only 25 cases. In 2020, we got rid of covid by just closing everything except grocery stores and hospitals for 8 weeks. June 2020 to Feb 2021 we literally had no COVID in the country, it was fuccin glorious. Just cuz the European countries stopped doing full lockdowns, they didn't do full a lockdown in 2021, a trickle of cases continued even after the lockdown was lifted. The grew to hundreds of cases everyday in September and by November it was thousands of cases everyday. Even now it's thousands, but the govt doesn't even count those people who are at home and sick, only those who go to the hospital are counted officially (offical count hovers between 100-200) Fucc, my entire family just got COVID, luckily we're all vaxed so all doing well

Thank you for writing all of this. I found myself in a similar situation not so long ago. What you said was very well put; I too can't understand how inconsiderate some people ( even relatives and close ones) can be. Many need to realise that not everything is about them and their choice and so on, especially when it comes to such large scale health hazard as Covid, that has shown time and time again that it substantially harms the more vulnerable individuals around us. For example, those who deal with asthma, such as yourself.

I feel you and I don't know what to say. What you wrote is like my thoughts, excatly. I think this particular comment section is a good place to vent and I'm glad you did.

I love this comment. I just can't sympathise. I was in a video call with my grandfather, an 86 year old man who is AFRAID of dying to covid. He found out that his church friends are not vaccinated, they omitted that and spent time with him. They also join us on these video calls. During one of their rants one of them literally said aloud with this 86 year old, at risk, person in the call - "It only kills people with underlying conditions and people over 80.". I can't and won't sympathise. They are selfish people.

As an educated person with an autoimmune disease, you should also know that there is a newly discovered type of autoimmunity that’s caused by adjuvants. The suffering women are reporting worldwide about their “breast implant illness” (including me) is the same suffering many people worldwide are reporting from vaccines that contain aluminum (unfortunately almost all of them). Aluminum and silicone among others are materials that permanently stimulate the immune system - mostly in the wrong way, even when there is nothing to fight. When there is something to fight though, the body will create antibodies even more efficiently than a healthy body - unless the person with autoimmunity is taking medication against it. It’s been proven that people can create their own immunity to this virus (that’s not the case for all pathogens though). If a person has untreated autoimmune condition (usually a painful life) this person will create immunity to practically anything in “supersonic” speed and efficiency. I assume you and the Portuguese woman you mention are getting treatment (because it seems like you have an actual diagnose, to which there is a real treatment). So you gave really good advice. Now, as someone suffering from an yet-untreatable autoimmune condition caused by an adjuvant (which thank God can be removed, and thank God that I will be able to afford it soon), I understand how it feels to not have our pains go unrecognized and being gaslit into thinking they're “conspiracy theories” against the beauty/cosmetic surgery industry (silicone implants) or big pharma (vaccines with aluminum). Just like autoimmunity caused by the adjuvants in vaccines (mainly aluminum), my condition is debilitating. But unlike those who suffer from vaccines adjuvants, I can remove the adjuvant causing me all these, and the problem will hopefully go away (like it has for millions of women already who report on the internet how they got their health back by removing adjuvants). Aluminum from vaccine gets stuck in the brains, arms muscle and many other areas that can’t be removed. They are also not getting treatment nor recognition and are being gaslit by doctors (many of which are nothing more than big pharma's “influencers”). Breast implant illness just like any other adjuvant induced autoimmunity is REAL. Vaccines are incredibly dangerous, and nobody seems to question that they're the only drug that is given like “one size fits all”. That’s never the case for any drug. How do we accept that for vaccines? Dosage, formulation, frequency of doses should be calculated for each specific individual. Not everyone need the stimulation aluminum gives. Old people, immuncompromised people, people treating autoimmunity certainly do. Young healthy adults or people with untreated autoimmune conditions don’t. Even though we could all benefit from the mRNA effect, it’s not worth it sometimes because of the risks of adjuvants. My health deteriorated severely in the 4 months post vaccination, all autoimmunity symptoms got worse (there was no nocebo effect, since I believed at the time mRNA vaccines had no adjuvants in them, as I read from a reputable source, which turned out to be a lie). Remember we don’t have access to the entire truth, greedy companies or entire industries wouldn’t benefit from that. Please research about why Pfizer doesn’t want to sell their vaccine (nor the formulation) to poorer countries. Research about how much profit they're making from selling all they can sell to rich countries, asking for insane prices per dose, claiming that people in rich countries need to keep getting more and more doses. Milking all they can before separating anything more than 2% of the doses for poorer countries. Let's not forget what big pharma really is, and how Pfizer was the least trusted company in the least trusted industry until a couple of years ago. Remember. And remember the forgotten people being labeled horrible names while all they're doing is surviving from adjuvant induced autoimmunity and trying to be taking seriously. Now the reason I’m commenting this here is you can’t talk about autoimmunity and vaccines without remembering lives that were ruined by adjuvants.

o.o

I think it may also have to do with the fact that you have treated her as an another intellectually able person (we tend to say that anivaxxer are stupid), have listened to her concerns with empathy, and have a shared experience (your autoimmune disease) that may have helped her to relate to you.

@@luannafsantos I haven’t personally done much reading on the potential effects of adjuvants on autoimmune conditions, but I think you make some interesting points here. I would definitely agree with the idea you mentioned about personalised/precision medicine, where treatment takes individual differences into account when deciding to take a certain drug or treatment (i.e. not taking the 1-size-fits-all approach). I was actually talking to my lecturer about this today - about why medicine hasn’t integrated all of these new techniques for personalised medicine into mainstream healthcare + he said that the methods/materials they use to eg. find someone’s genetic profile (one factor that might affect how you eg react to a drug) are often expensive bc they’re intellectual property, and so our access, as the general public, to avoiding bad side effects that are specific to the individual is a lot lower than eg someone with a LOT of money :/

@MichiruEll Maybe with your studies and expertise you can explain to another person who's refrained from taking this novel mRNA 'vaccine'. How forming an immune response to the spike protein surrounding the virus. Protects one from the actual virus? Im not medically trained so this is all a bit confusing for me...

Pfizer executive has come out and said that vaccines don’t stop transmission, so anyone who wasn’t a vulnerable person in the first place who got vaccinated got fooled.

The truth that's distilled from this, I suspect, is that they could make vaccines for most viruses with equal rapidity... but they wouldn't turn such obscene profits if they did. Because, as Abi states, Big Pharma doesn't exist to make us healthy; it exists to make itself rich. So it's a safe bet that the way things are normally done is the way that generates the most coin. They had to change the plan this time because dead people don't pay for anything. The original question is sadly looking at the wrong half of the equation; it's not that the CoViD vaccine was developed too fast... it's that all other vaccines are developed too slowly.

I feel as though many people’s concerns regarding the vaccine are frivolous and based in falsehood, but I believe that there are many proper arguments against it. Healthcare corruption, bodily autonomy, a lack of knowledge concerning long-term health implications, and the vaccines inability to protect against all strains of the virus are simply a few which necessitate further discussion.

There's actually an even simpler explanation for the speed. The mRNA vaccine that was used had been in development for a decade for another coronavirus (SARS iirc). So they were able to get a massive boost from that. Also like Abigail said funding wasn't a problem. So they were able to run trials that usually are run one after another, with delays in between, all at the same time. This massively cut the development time since the paperwork between stages and getting funding for the next stage takes a lot more time than the actual trials.

In the US, we actually had a pandemic response plan. It was developed under George H. W. Bush. It understood all this research and made very clear recommendations that were designed to minimize these issues. Trump ignored it completely for perceived personal political gain, and hung public health officials out to dry in a way that directly exacerbated these issues.

@@karliebellatrixyoung6359 yeah, it's extremely frustrating to hear things said by people like the OP. Of course exhaustive research has been done about this. Unfortunately the research could not adding for waters poisoned so severely by Trump.

These things were absolutely tried. Everything that can be done to provide people with information and sympathy was done. And is done on a daily basis. These people aren't just called stupid on the face of it. They are given every opportunity to actually critically evaluate the readily available evidence and make a personal choice to completely ignore all of it.

As someone who is very pro-vax I'm sorry you had to go through that, and apologize on their behalf, for whatever that's worth. I'm glad to hear that you eventually came around despite it all.

Hey, as someone that has a bigger chance of dying from this shitty disease, thanks for being the bigger person, and getting your shot.

What actually changed your mind in the end?

That's awesome! I'm so glad you liked it!

I mean what’s missing from this conversation is that almost all of the questions vaccine hesitant or antivax people have had have been answered very quickly. The data on vaccine effectiveness has been accessible from day one. The data and the knowledge on how to interpret it is all publicly available. It takes like… five seconds to Google “was the vaccine rushed?” and read just one of the hundreds of thousands of articles on the subject. Mixed messaging from officials is fixed by… reading the studies. All of this information has always been there. While I have a lot of empathy for your situation, it’s not correct to call vaccine hesitant or antivax folks “people who’ve been a tad foolish”. That’s not what happened here. What happened was willful ignorance on a subject where having the wrong opinion endangers lives. The information and the facts and the answers to the questions have been out there for years now, but vaccine hesitant and antivax people either have not done the work to look at it, or have avoided engaging with it on purpose. I’m not attaching any kind of moral judgement to this, like I don’t think that’s useful. I think most of this is due to systemic issues and consuming the wrong set of media, along with the fear of being wrong. But that doesn’t mean that every vaccine hesitant or antivax person gets off scott-free and doesn’t have additional work to do. Ultimately something happened to where they did not interpret the data correctly and, because of that, they endangered people’s lives. People who were vaccine hesitant need to do some serious self-analysis to figure out why that was the case and what they can do to prevent stuff like that from happening again.

If this level of antivax sentiment was prevalent back then we'd still have smallpox running and rabies would still be a death sentence.

@@sithwolf8017 Most infectious diseases were in decline by te time vaccines turned up. Clean water, sanitation, reasonable living conditions and nutrition are more important than vaccines.

@@TheRonster1957 so why are diseases currently dropping in third world countries that have vaccination programs while at the same time having poor or nonexistent sanitation services? How did we eradicate smallpox in these third world countries?

​@@sithwolf8017 Do you have any examples of disease decline in third world countries absent improved sanitation? Western countries had major improvements of sanitation and nutrition in the first half of the 20th century at the same time that infectious diseases were drastically declining. Correlation doesn't equal causation, but doesn't preclude it either. For example, in Melbourne Australia(along with all other major ciries here) we didn't have flush toilets till the 1960's. Till then there was a system of 'night carts', where 10 gallon cans of sewage was physically emptied into a tank on the cart, usually at night, hence the name.

@Ron Mortimer Africa during the 80s had over a million cases of measles per year. Fast forward to the 2010s and there are ~70,000 cases per year. Also here's an interesting little fact. In the Americas the amount of measles cases was around 60 in 2005. Fast forward a decade later and they rose to above 10,000 cases. Now for a region that boasts fantastic sanitation services how did that spike occur? Could their sanitation services have failed or was it because parents stopped vaccinating their kids?

So sorry for your loss- sounds like a special lady indeed, and I do hope someday she and others who participated in trials will be honored.

Dad passes a moth before vaccines were available for seniors here in Georgia USA. It is quite sad he was looking forward to it and had been so careful. Ty for your story and let’s keep trying to honor our loved ones memories. My sympathies your way.

My husbands great aunt died the day after her first dose. It was not the vaccine (she was 96, just had a feeding tube replaced and was in hospital following a stroke). It was heartbreaking. I absolutely understand how the wrong words in the wrong way can hurt. This is not what Abigail meant though

@@claireleblanc5471 I did think that maybe I misinterpreted it, as I know she’s frickin awesome and wouldn’t want to hurt anyone. I think maybe she didn’t know how we could have perceived it? I guess it’s a sensitive topic.

@@shellmartin2151 Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. Secondly, I think the operative word there is "chose" -- as in people who otherwise could get the vaccine but didn't want to for whatever reason. And it's true that a lot of unvaccinated people are the ones catching and experiencing complications of covid. I'm pretty certain Abi wasn't talking about people who didn't get the vaccine and then died who weren't eligible for it, were unable to get it, had no access to it, etc., but people who had ample opportunity and refused

My sister is the frustrating mirror of the people in this study; she feels being vaccinated and boosted means she can throw all other precautions to the wind...

As someone with very first hand expirience of someone who completly fullfills the media portrait i must say, that sadly those people do still exist. And at least in Germany its surprisingly common. But there might be a cultural difference, it would be very interesting to know if i might've just gotten "unlucky" with a family member of mine to be a very *special* individual or if theres an actual difference in countries. Sorry that just came to mind.

Being "terribly frustrated" and "resentful" about someone's personal health choices means you are an absolute loon.

@@mrpipps90 its... contagious, so no, they're not.

@@lizabeth529 and you have a vaccine to protect you. After that mind your own business.

This is true, this video is very much giving them the benefit of the doubt which I do think is important because it will get through to people better.

watch the entire 42 minute video before rushing to comment.

@@shizzlemywizzle1 I did, but my opinion still stands .. I'm not sure what you're getting at. I commented because I didn't wanna forget commenting.

Thats a great stance to have with your friends. Keeping them close is for sure better. I think theres a good way for you to approach them : if they think youre a sheep, then roll with it. Use the socratic method - at every step and every comment, ask them "why" or "how" until you get to the end of their reasoning - dont interrupt or contradict it. This shows 1. that youre open to their ideas and a proper discussion, and 2. it places them in a higher regards as an educator, its respectful. Google their topics of interests, not yours. Think of them as knowledgeable in things you arent. Ask who they think is an authority on the questions. Read or watch the opinion of the news your friends read - only then will you be in a position to counter and go on the offensive, after you've taken the time to be within their personal news cycle.

That's the big thing the video misses: It empathizes with the unvaccinated as people who simply *don't* understand, when the reality is they *don't want* to understand.

That is purely on USAs fucked up healthcare system. You get the same strips and medicines at a fraction of the price in EU countries even if said medicine isn't subsidized by the government, and not because US patients pay for the price instead of us (which is a commonly stressed misconception). Companies will simply make you pay for something as much as you are willing to, and if the government is not there to negotiate on your behalf (with all customers in their bag), then something you cannot allow not to buy will have an extremely high price tag.

Who would have thought that a massively demand inelastic market would be prone to market failure?

Reminds me of Senator Joe Manchin and his daughter. He made his fortune from the ultra-polluting coal industry and she made her fortune by price gouging on Epi-Pens. When she was CEO of Mylan she made a bunch of shady backroom deals to get a monopoly on epinephrine injectors and then jacked the price up 500%.

They at least have to face the consequence of losing you.

@@RozWBrazel People like that never blame themselves for anything

Sympathies, but out of context

Smart parents. I will be like them when I grow up to have kids. Mind you, I am not anti-vaxxer. Just anti-pharma anti-allopathy :P. To know the truth, read the Flexner report and also understand species specific diet. Clogged colon and filthy lymph system is the root cause for most of the diseases. John Rose is the mann. You know when you are in for a treat.

I'm sorry you break off contact with your only family because of something so mediocre. Indeed you got divided.

God that’s awful I feel so bad for you and your boyfriend’s family. Are they doing okay now?

Lawsuit?

So this family were all vaccinated but caught it anyway and gave it to everyone else. Great vaccine, really helps

My sister complained about having her own and some of her coworkers’ employment terminated for refusing to be vaccinated. One of those other coworkers already had started an outbreak in the assisted living facility she worked at, who likely infected her and all of her friends. They’re lucky only a handful of residents got infected, let alone traceably to any of them. This sort of thing is a load of dangerous crap but is shockingly common.

I’m so sorry :( I got COVID probably from someone in the elevator of my apartment. I was isolating and that’s the only person I was close to for a while. So unlucky. One person ruins it all

You don't need to reassure us, just respect our decision and bodily autonomy.

@@TheRonster1957 I don't, because you're not respecting the people around you. Let's just move all the people who don't take the vaccine to Missouri, wall it up and have fun. Your decision is to endanger others. I don't respect a drunk driver and I don't respect someone that won't get the vaccine.

@@raythink This is Biden's America... /s

@@raythink Banning kissing would be like banning trains because sometimes they kill people, or banning cherries because sometimes people choke on the stones. Anything looks bad if you _only_ weigh up the harms, and not take into account the whole picture.

Gotta love statistics. Everything "COVID-related" is related to Sars-Cov-2 in the exact same sense that 100% of sunrises are rosster´s-crow-related.

Almost like it is propaganda

it kinda is a kids show for vaccinated.

@@dougalmaguire2357 propaganda for what?

@@micahjones7837 believing credentialed medical experts over RU-vid comments quackery

@@dodorus966 You are literally advocating for the "right" to kill disabled people . . .

@@dodorus966 A virus isn't a germ, or a bacteria. The vaccine doesn't include any antagonistic chemicals; it's literally just a portion of the actual virus and some sugar, more or less. If you choose to ignore public health, you are harming everyone around you.

@@dodorus966 so in your opinion all the vaccinated people who see you as a threat to themselves or their loved ones can "take the right to kill you off" or in this instance force you to get vaccinated?

@@ZephyrFate ​Wikipedia agrees with my usage of the term. In the entry for Germ (microorganism), redirected to Pathogen -> «Typically, the term is used to describe an infectious microorganism or agent, sch as a virus [...]» I don't feel like discussing the trustfulness of the sources about vector vaccines anymore. I believe I already did enough of that for a lifetime. It precisely is concern for public health that leads me to that decision. Being able to keep untrusty companies from putting whatever they want in your body is absolutely vital. Rest assured I trust my choice to be the one that saves the most lives in the big picture.

@@dodorus966 your choice saves no one. I don’t feel like discussing with idiots either.

Exactly vaccines are a privilege, and privileged people are often blind to it. Privileges come at the cost of responsibilities.

Did you know that Western governments have bought over ten doses of the vaccine for EACH citizen? Why shift the responsibility onto individuals and their bodily autonomy?

@@drtg101we7 For the same reason we can criticize food waste in the west, even when there is more than we need?

@@dannyeisenga Is there three times more food than all of us could ever consume out there? I doubt so. Vaccinated or unvaccinated, you're still wasting seven shots that could be used in places that need it desperately. All in order to line up the pockets of Pfizer and co

@@drtg101we7 Because Western governments bought them knowing there would be hesitation, and knowing that each batch had a short shelf life. Better to over-purchase for your voters and have wasted doses, than to have your voters not have them when they want them. At least, that's probably how Western politicians calculate it... I'm not saying it's right, in fact I'm saying quite the opposite, but this is the kind of bullshit our politicians think of while posturing at the expense of nations with less money. Those vaccines should've gone to where they were most likely to be used before expiring, not based on how rich a country is...

Science, in theory, is a peer-reviewed process (that has its flaws) whereas pseudo science gets all upset when scrutanised.

And yet the US government lied during the tuskagee experiments. How much did trust work out in the instance? Millions died in the war in Iraq because our leaders, our diplomats, our bureaucrats lied to the world about weapons of mass destruction. Obviously this list goes on and on. Blindly trusting authority isn't something to be proud of.

@@exoendo I never said anything about trusting politicians. I don't trust politicians and that's because I don't have confidence in their ability to govern me over my ability to self govern. A politician is like an expert that speaks far outside of their field. They'll most often give you an answer that means nothing regarding something they know nothing about or dodging the question entirely rather than just say I don't know. They'll also have their information coming from interpretations of biased poll data and advisors that don't know anymore than they do who have an agenda. The only thing most politicians are experts in is failing upward... Meanwhile a scientist uses the evidence derived from the scientific method. Which is at it's core a process of discovery that aims to self correct and control for bias. And those that are experts in a particular field will often be very specific about what they do and don't know. where the limit of their expertise ends. When they are expressing opinion vs. when they are stating facts. It doesn't do to listen to what most people say scientists say Especially through the game of operator that is news reporting and passing information up the chain, what people say they say vs. what they actually said are often two very different things.Or somewhat similar but with a crucial omitted difference. So wherever possible I try to see what scientists and especially experts in a field themselves actually say. When I see an article about scientific discovery by a journal or paper that doesn't exclusively deal in that. I check their sources. If they point to a study I am unfamiliar with. I read the study (at least the abstract which is almost always freely available. Often where an article will have over-stated or misrepresented can be found in that first paragraph or two and one need go no further to dismiss the claim that is often a click bait title). So pointing to something where politicians misrepresented the science isn't a gotcha on trusting the science.

@@exoendo I wish there were some kind of exam or test for politicians to become politicians, that would ensure their aptitude. Their degrees and experience don't mean anything in terms of how well they do their jobs.

Same. I trusted the professionals when I got my three jabs. Not the politicians though.

The MASSIVE problem that happens is that if just 1 person is affected adversely, that experience for that 1 person has a massive weighted bias, and creates a bias gravity well around their social proximity IF they take this as evidence that the adverse effect is necessarily a *bad thing*. For example, my son gets the shot and he has a seizure. If I go around telling people that this happened and you shouldn't get the shot as a result, I can drag people around me into that crevasse because they know me and my son. If I say this isn't a big deal, it's fine, it probably would have the opposite effect. In some cases even if you say this isn't a big deal, just talking about it could get you "cancelled" if you don't bracket the experience with: "everything is fine, I'm just unlucky". One guy I saw had a kid that seized after the MMR. His big issue was he didn't hedge this in ANY way, he just expressed it as something that happened rather than something that happens rarely and doesn't regret it. I felt this was irresponsible of him, personally.

Though this is true to a certain extent, one does have to consider that there are limits to how much money you can throw at something in substitution for research time. Classic analogy of "getting 9 women pregnant doesn't net you one baby in a month" applies here.

@@Idontevenwanachannel yeah but as abby stated on the video, the technology was already being studied for decades at this point; we also have to take this into consideration i guess

You do realise that a lot of things need years to really become clear. I am talking about adverse effects, already in the first few months after release negative side effects were found that never came up in the design trials (these trials are not designed to find such effects) like the blood cloths and myocarditis. Realise that only a one percent increase of developing cancer the next few decades due to the vaccin is not something that you can find in one or two years. Same for all kinds of neurological problems that may pop up the coming years. Another example, myocarditis is only found clinically ten percent of the cases (so a scan always almost needed), so lots of cases of myocarditis are not found, and myocarditis may be mild and heal fairly quickly, it is well established in cardiological journals that myocarditis gives a greater risk of getting a fatal heart attack even 15 years after the initial myocarditis. Please do not start and say that the virus causes myocarditis more frequently (those studies are really bad, very bad estimations of people already having the virus, or getting routine screened with pcr, not able to route out other causes of myocarditis etc), besides you can not get immune to the virus, so the risk of myocarditis from the virus wont go away anyway. Then there is the ADE (antibody-dependent enhancement) due to the pathogen mutating itself and the body on the other hand getting trained to immunise itself against an already outdated version of the virus (so the immune system reacts to the mutated virus with the old useless antibodies it got from the vaccin, and in so doing not attacking the virus but actually helping it) So the risk benefit analysis for a vaccin against a pathogen that at the end of the day is barely two times more dangerous than a flu (Omikron even less dangerous than the flu) that also can not give you sterilizing immunity, is very unclear for almost everyone under 60 years old, more so for under 40.

Not only shutting down hurt the world economy but also selling the vaccine

@@kiekiek there have been more long-term studies of tons of other vaccines, and the long-term risks of COVID on pretty much all levels are hugely reduced in those who have been vaccinated. Also, if you're going to claim that the studies on miocarditis are so dubious, at least link the ones you are referring to so other people can fact check you.

And people with a lot of dollars get a lot of votes.

Yeah the fact that “vote with your dollar” is still an idea when we have rampant income inequality is a joke. Vote with your body and your voice. At least all of us only get one of those.

Yes! This is the heart of the "money = speech= first amendment rights" line of cases at the U.S. Supreme Court, culminating in the Citizen's United decision.

Yes, I remember that. I too was angry that they had lied to us at first-AND that they hadn’t (instead) just ramped up production and (free) distribution of masks ASAP. But I didn’t let that anger interfere with doing the right thing, to protect myself and others, once we knew the truth.

I remember that too. I think if they said since the beginning that we had to wear masks but that they, themselves (as a government), didn't manage the production of masks in a way that would allow everyone to have access to masks right now people would have felt less betrayed by the brutal shift of discourse and the mandatory masks overnight when people couldn't even buy them. They should have told people how to make homemade masks while waiting until the "real" ones were here. But I guess it's better to treat your population as dumb people instead of being honest...

That's not quite the whole story, though. The closest relative to SARS-COV-2 known at the time was SARS-COV-1 (the "OG" SARS). SARS-COV-1 is not airborne; it spreads largely through contact with contaminates surfaces. So they began with the assumption that SARS-COV-2 was also not airborne. Hence the emphasis for the first few months on cleaning and disinfecting everything. Hence also, I suspect, the slowness of many governments to procure masks in quantity and the governments' original recommendations against wearing masks. That was a costly assumption, but not a lie. Had those governments continued to downplay masks AFTER determining that SARS-COV-2 was airborne, that would be a lie. I do not believe that was the case in the US, but perhaps France was different.

This video was literally funded by the Royal Institution. It's government propaganda.

I'm glad you picked up on that - I deliberately try to make the learning non-competetive for the exact reasons you say!

Beyond just being a thing of "It's important to listen to others", this point also has epistemological value. I came up with this motto : If you always try to be right, you run the risk of always being wrong. That's why, instead of asking myself "What proves me right?", I ask myself "What could prove me wrong?". This is ideally how science works : Emit a hypothesis, and try to demonstrate it's wrong, and by failing to do so, you can say the hypothesis was (probably) correct. If you think you found a rule, try to find counterexamples. And so on, and so forth. This is, imo, the best way to avoid things like confirmation bias, and it's how you can get closer to the truth. And having other people's perspective can help you a lot in that respect (this is also why things like peer review exist). It's also true that trying to destroy someone with facts and logic on the free marketplace of ideas isn't going to convince most people, which is why it's important to listen. The Socratic method can also be interesting to try. Although when the person you're talking to just avoids your questions because they see it as a rhetorical trap (which it isn't really, if you're able to avoid fallacies and things like that) and they don't want to fall into it, you can easily go in circles for a very long time (had an online conversation like that recently; very unpleasant).

+ratio

He is a talented person but he is pushing all the evils of the world. Is that positive enough ?

o.o

Not to be dark, but I don't think anything changed. We were like this before and after covid. Everything was primed for this to go wrong in exactly the ways it has gone wrong.

@@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice That's what Temmosus meant by human nature. Covid just shined a spotlight on it.

I feel the same way. The way science has gone from meaning scientific processes (hypothesis, evidence, theory) to whatever the government says is acceptable that week has been very sobering.

@@Smok3yR1der hahaha, ok buddy.

@@tony6795 as if to prove my point

Also great video, I’m always a bit anxious to lend any acknowledgment or cede any ground to people who are nervous around vaccines but I think this is a really good and thoughtful video which is quite respectful of the people who aren’t really part of the more ‘cult anti vaxx’ crowd!

At some point, as patients, we reach the limits of being informed, without taking a medical degree ourselves... Definitely a grey area.

I really appreciate your comment. I like to think that the majority of people who work in healthcare and healthcare-adjacent jobs are a lot like you and your colleagues. People who are knowledgeable, competent, and reliable. We shouldn't all need medical degrees in order to trust our doctors et al.

This so easily falls into cliché territory, but thank you for what you do. I’m not in healthcare or medicine but about half of my family and extended family is. I sincerely believe that the professionals who do seriously consider these kinds of things throughout the years that they practice are inherently the professionals who do the best jobs at truly connecting with their patients’ wants and needs.

What about situations that are really time-sensitive? If something medical has to be done immediately or the infliction gets worse. Being in pain is a state where it's indeed hard to really understand long term effects on something. Right now I'm missing a tooth because my dentist refused to do basic root canal treatment for it. She claimed it wouldn't be possible to do it but I later found out she was most likely lying, since she had lied about many other things and messed up my dental care in a multitude of ways. Tooth was eventually so painful even with painkillers I couldn't focus on anything. They gave me two choices; get the tooth ripped out or go home with the pain. I technically had a an option to do the root canal treatment, she said it could maybe be done but she doubt it would work. I said I wanted that, I wanted to keep my tooth. She tried to talk me out of it, until she completely back-peddled and claimed it wasn't possible. This dentist claimed for years that I don't have tartar or cavities. I asked her point blank "do I have tartar because I would like to make an appointment to have it removed" she said with a straight face that I have absolutely no tartar in my mouth. Now I switched dentist and the first thing the new one did was to fix my cavity, yes I had one, also he said I do in fact have tartar and it's starting to mess up my teeth. I have constantly gum infections and now I know why. Thank God I'm finally getting treatment for it. Had I stayed with my previous dentist, she would've just waited til all my teeth were rotting in my mouth and pulling them off until I had none left.

Maybe. But some of us just want to leave those who choose to avoid something as low effort as vaccination to their own devices. I just want a way to protect myself from them. You know, like drunk drivers.

@@Meatwad650 but then you have to make the argument why I should risk my health for you, or why we shouldn’t segregate for other reasons, after all, those gays might be getting AIDS again, and you wouldn’t want to risk catching it

@@Brent-jj6qi Your bad faith argument is inherent bogus. You have to choose to have sex with someone to contract HIV. And if you are engaging in sex you have multiple ways to protect yourself.

@@Meatwad650 fine, then black people with Ebola, or any of the other tons of diseases that tend to infect one race because they come from regions where it’s mostly that one race

@@Brent-jj6qi Funny, the majority of people outside of the US actually don’t act as stupid as we do. But go off sis.

This is an important idea; although equipment to sterilize supplies is expensive, can be prone to failure, requires continued expense (UV bulbs or gasket repair kits (steam sterilizers) for example), and a consistent source of power. So to avoid improper and dangerous attempts at "sterilization" which don't work a lot of money needs to be invested up front. Also, things like needles would have to be sterilized _after each use_ so would probably be pretty inefficient especially considering you have limited space in a sterilizer. However, this could definitely be used to get rid of single-use surgical equipment.

a charge da revolta da vacina... só quem viveu sabe

@@fxls5300 Aquela de todo mundo sendo atravessado pela vacina, né? Kkkkkk Livros de história de toda geração

That's the best way to do it. You don't reach them by creating distance, you reach them by letting them be heard and finding the hole in their logic. It's like cult deprogramming... :(

are you saying the police should force people to Vaccinate in America, or that it would lead to an uprising, if it did?

Ur so right, and I'd like to add something. It's not only the lack of reliable sources of information causing ppl not to get vaccinated here. The fanatism of bolsonaro's voters plays a considerable part in this case. His mob doesn't give a fuck about science, they just want to follow their leader no matter what. He is a political leader that publicly speaks against vaccines with no scientifical evidence to fundament what he says because he knows that his followers will do anything he wants. When his followers are confronted with facts by ppl in their daily lives , they come up with excuses on their own just to remain loyal to their leader and with that misinformation arises, they become vectors of misinformation. I think the problem here is not only that ppl can't trust science anymore, but that lots of them choose to ignore it for loyalty to their president.

Yeah I really wanna see a video about when and if it's ok to curtail certain rights. You could even talk about the Soviet union and the supposed tradeoff of workers' rights and democratic rights

I'd be interested too, since a government making those sorts of decisions might have to get autocratic in order to be able to take away those freedoms. Is there an example of a more democratic government making these decisions? This question comes with the caveat that the general pubic would have to know about how the freedoms were being infringed. When the US sterilized women of color without knowledge or consent (about 20,000 in Puerto Rico), they didn't advertise.

@@sarahwatts7152 As a Canadian, there is at least the War Measures Act and Emergencies Act, but that's really only two case studies.

@@sarahwatts7152 I know some school systems require kids to have non-covid vaccines, but as Abigal says, they aren't particularly stringent. I should definitely look more into the topic, as a trans person, governments making decisions about its citizens bodies is an important one

@@sarahwatts7152 The Patriot Act in the US. We started a "war on terror" to justify setting up a surveillance state and tightening our borders. They weren't exactly subtle in restricting homeland freedom for matters of national security.

I agree. I think it could honestly be a follow up discussion whole cloth in its own right.

That's a fair point - I think I'll bring it up on the post mortem livestream

Both of my parents are clinically vulnerable (my Mum has type one diabetes, my Dad has had asthma since he was a child). We got covid in Nov 2020 despite us all isolating and it was really scary, my Dad got quite ill, though he recovered, and my Mum still has problems with her breathing caused by long covid. I also find it quite hard to empathise with abled people who either don't realise or don't care that by not getting the vaccine they could kill the people I love. There's also the slightly related issue of how a lot of anti vaccine arguments were popularised during the MMR scare, and as an autistic person I feel like a *lot* of the problems you see in modern day discourse around autism can be directly traced to that. In theory I can empathise with someone who "just wants to make their own choice" or whatever, but in my mind I sometimes struggle to not get mad about the fact that whether they know it or not the movement they are associated with has done a lot of damage to an already marginalised community.

I'm immunocompromised myself, and I just wanted to chime in that medically there are very very few immunocompromised people who shouldn't take the vaccine. Because it's mRNA and not any kind of actual virus, it's one of the safest vaccines for immunocompromised people because there is no chance of getting sick. Most of the people I've seen saying they are immunocompromised turn out to be lying to make it sound like they have a good reason for not getting vaccinated. Of course, this isn't at all to discount the people who are actually at risk of complications if they take the vaccine, but I feel like it's oftentimes a minority that's been overblown in order for those willfully unvaccinated to say "oh but what about the immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine! You can't require vaccines for these things because that's discrimination!" I'm quite tired of being used as a pawn. This isn't to be antagonizing you at all or saying that this is what you're doing! I just wanted to give a little more information and my two cents as someone immunosuppressed!

I'm glad you finally found a doctor who listened. It can be life-changing. My partner has endo, and suffers from disabling chronic pain thanks to it (and other conditions), and has had so many horrible experiences with (especially male) doctors. It took her years to get a diagnosis and any sort of treatment. She was never anti-vaxx, but her experiences were so horrible with the (American) medical system that she did do an entire year of zero "traditional" medicine, and only homeopathy, "energy work," and "alternative" medicine, not because she's some dumb GOOP-reading crystal-worshipping new agey white lady, but out of fucking desperation, fear, and alienation. It was life-changing to finally meet with a gyno surgeon who actually listened to her experience of her own body.

This has been told over and over to these anti-vaxers. And yet they sit there and cry about the fact that people call them selfish. And they truly wonder why? I think they genuinely just only care about themselves.

Im in the same situation except I ended up with mumps from anti vaxxers (so I wasn't lucky). As a result I find anti vaxxers incredibly selfish for the lives they risk. As an Indigenous person I can't help but note that the majority of anti vaxxers are racists who want me dead anyways.

@@franklinblunt69 huh? this person just happens to be a biological fluke

@@LittleSparklingStars First of all, the COVID-19 vaccines have never been marketed as capable of curbing spread to any significant degree. Their primary function have always been to reduce serious illness when/if you get infected - and they are effective at this. However, there are many studies and empirical examples that show the vaccines are ineffective at creating herd immunity and does not prevent transmission enough for it to matter. Then there is the issue of waning immunity among the vaccinated (the vaccine does not last forever), new mutations that reduce effectiveness of the vaccines and so forth and so on. The idea of herd immunity for COVID-19 is largely a myth and people need to stop spreading it and look at the hard facts. Countries with 70-80% vaccine coverage still experience record numbers of cases. I myself have several acquaintances that have gotten infected twice despite being vaccinated. Given these data, calling the unvaccinated selfish doesn't make sense.

What People must understand is that yes, you have Freedom, you have Choice, but that doesnt change the Choice of not vaccinated yourself to 'not be stupid'. Yeah, your Freedom ends when you think your a Reality-Bender or a Wizard. Cause your just not. Yes, you CAN be unvaccinated, but you CANNOT (it's impossible) be unvaccinated with a valid reason. That's just not possible in a world, in a reality, where the Origins and the Root of these Decisions Yes, YOUR Decision is your Decision but if you make Decisions bades on Misinformations, Myths, Anti-Science, Bullfluff, and all the like, then maybe, just maybe (and with maybe i mean 100% chance)... you will fail to make the right Decision with your Freedom. Sorry for the long comment, i really just mean to say: Go and watch Hbomberguys now-legendary video where he goes without any Bias INTO the ROOT. Where do Anti-Vaxx-Ideas come from and what is it really all about? He found out.

" I didn't want to take medical resources away from people who might need them more." I'll admit even being firmly pro-vaccines that was what had me delay getting my shot. I was under the assumption it would be like polio with people lined up for miles and I wanted the high-risk people to get theirs first before someone with no adverse medical conditions who works from home and doesn't get out much. Come to find out I'm in the bible belt and there was literally no line.

No vaccines since they were forced on me as a child and I'm doing great! I love not pumping all those chemicals and toxins into my body.

@@jennifernordlund2691 Instead you live with the disease of spending all day spamming comments on youtube videos trying to make arguments about the global effects vaccines with only your flimsy personal anecdotes to share.

@@jennifernordlund2691 did you consider that one of the reasons you're doing great is because you were vaccinated against various diseases wh/ could've impaired you?

It is still possible to get it this time :) It is possible to get re-infected as well, and there is evidence that the vaccines provide better immunity to re-infection. So it might still be worth researching and seeking out.

Well done Steven. And well done Abi.

Wow, I'm so glad that you've come around! And don't be too hard on yourself. What matters is that you've looked at things logically and made a sound decision now. What you're going to do is something that will help lots of people (including you!) stay safe, and it's something to be really proud of.

I mentioned this on her patreon, but at first I wanted her to attack the unvaccinated. By the end I had completely changed my opinion, and damn her for making me be all rational and even-tempered about these things!

And it's a shame that these arguments didn't reach you before because they have been available for over a year. Of course they were very quickly hidden under piles or trolling and arguing which made them harder to hear.

Yep lol as soon as I heard everyone taking up hospital beds in my city weren’t vaccinated, I called & made my appointment. I’ll take a free jab over a $15,000 bill.

​@@leventeberdock355 Paying for people to get life saving medication is exactly what I think taxes are for, so I don't really see the point in quibbling about, at most, the cost of one very expensive aircraft carrier. The US government loses billions on literal nothing every year, paying for vaccines seems like a much better investment.

If it can reassure you, dealing with people like you from the other side is very frustrating too. Seeing you use the «vaccine side effects mostly turn up a couple month after» for vaccines that everyone knows to be structured differently from classical vaccines is mind-boggling.

@@dodorus966 The issue there is... that the stranger the claim (and the more unproven assumptions it needs) the heavier the burden of proof is. And there is no evidence at all that mRNA stays undegraded in your body for more than a few days. The biology of mRNA has been known for decades, and we know how it behaves. So... the thing is, the safety of vaccines has been proven. Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated with the main vaccines. There are side effects, some of them quite serious, but we know that those also happen (actually many times as intense) with the actual disease. Put in that perspective, the side effects have been minuscule, a statistical footnote. The burden of proof now falls into the "there may be long-term effects" claims. One year into the massive vaccination campaing, there's no data in fertility loss, long term side effects, no new side effects... Again, in a sample of hundreds of millions.

@@dodorus966 This is based on an incomplete understanding of how the vaccine does what it does. Making the claim that "we don't _know_ that it is the case that this vaccine is like others" still requires you to structure your proposed risk case based on actual potential mechanisms. We know what an MRNA vaccine does - it injects a set of MRNA into the body which cells use to replicate a copy of the protein spike of a virus _once_. After that, the MRNA and the viral spike are gone. What remains is memory cells, and the vaccine doesn't cause memory cells to behave differently. So if you propose that the vaccine could have long-term effects, you need to justify that proposal, and not just advance a claim without justification. What you're doing here, privileging the potential unknown without meaningfully defining its scope, is a classic logical fault in human cognition.

I was in the Curevac trials. I had quite strong side effects, much stronger than the ones I had with my Pfizer shots afterwards. Curevac ended up not being approved, due to the low protection and strong side effects. I'd do it over and over again. I felt it was my duty, as a citizen of a country, EU and community that has given me free healthcare, free education, infrastructure... all my life. If my contribution serves, even a tiny bit, to the development of better treatments and a safer life for people around me, then count me in. I find it quite untasteful, the point of view of "I'll wait and see if it's safe long term". Who do they think it's testing that? Their neighbour is. Their friends are. What they're really saying is: let those sheeps try it on themselves (and protect me in the process, accelerate a return to normal... things that I'll also benefit from btw) and if it's okay then I'll go as well. I do agree with the points Abigail made in this video, but I can't help feeling that this stance is cowardly and selfish.

@@dodorus966 I do not know what you real problem is, but I sure as h... know people like you who claim to be about the medical concerns are just lying allus other people straight up in the face. If it really was about the medical concern people like you should have stopped harping about this a long time ago. It should have been enough for you to know that mRNA vaccines had alredy been reasearched for years, they where literally just waiting to to human triels with them when covid came around. It was a supreme strick of luck that the mRNA technology was at that point in its development when corona turned up. It should also be enought for people like you that anything being approved for human trials must be very very safe before they even start and it should be enough for you to know that usually it will take anything between half and one and an half year from you have everything ready to go for a trial until you even get it in front of a etichal comity for final approval while mRNA and alle the vaccines relying on the old vaccine technology got to jump the queue and basically have zero wait time from trial design finished to comity approval to starting the study. That last bit is so unheard of in research circles it was incedible to watch how fast something can happen when you get tones of money and no grueling waiting. The only other similar thing I can think about the race for the moon. Enormous technological leaps in short time just because somebody with very real powers decided it need to be done as fast as physically possible. But it isn't really about the science for people like you is it? The science concern is just a something to hide whatever illogical real reason you have for being so scared of this achievement is.