I'm with you on that Zonnekat. Found this dude a year ago when I was buying a used Bugera 333. But I stop by every now and again because he is hilarious and just has a way that is interesting.
I feel that was a little uncalled for. LWB was providing what I considered to be some interesting information. He'll be getting some really good sound quality from that thing. I've had a look at your recent comment history, it seems to be all like this. Being horrible just for the hell of it. Disappointing Garry, disappointing. I've not had a troll on my comments for a while. Have they built a new bridge close by for you to live under perhaps?
The 6L6's provide a flatter frequency response than the EL34's, that's why the slight bump in EL34 bass response can be appreciated. The 6V6's exhibit even more linearity than the 6L6's, but in the end, it is a matter of personal preference. Good job! This an important comparison to make. Sam (USA)
Haha, I do those silly mouth twitches when I play too. The new Laney IronHeart series has 6L6 with the ability to switch to EL34. Tony Iommi uses 6L6, he's British, he invented metal so both valves have their heritage in British metal
Wow, what a difference! The EL34's have much more gain, a heavier type sound. If you can live with the extra hiss when you're not playing or playing clean is the trade off. Great test thanks for that.
6L6's all the way baby!!!! Good demo, thank you... Will try the 34's for myself as well... I feel my 6L6's are very ice picky high... I definitely get as much bass and punchiness as I would ever need... but sometimes those highs really stab me in the ears.
I think the point of using the infinium was so he could switch and let it do the work of compensating and biasing. INFINIUM Tube Life Multiplier Technology revolutionary INFINIUM Tube Life Multiplier technology is like having your very own technician inside your amp constantly monitoring and tweaking tube performance for the ultimate in tonal integrity and reliability. This revolutionary circuit not only optimizes the performance of each output tube, it dynamically balances the drive between them to more evenly distribute the load. With INFINIUM, your tubes last up to 20 times longer, saving you substantial money over the lifespan of your amplifier. INFINIUM also compensates for the effects of aging, automatically adjusting current levels to keep your tubes sounding as good as the day they were installed.
Gotta be the EL34s for me. I recently switched the stock 6L6s out of my Bugera 6262 Infinium for Sovtek EL34s (which I managed to get for £20), and the difference in tone is incredibly apparent. I was only expecting a minimal difference, but the EL34s seem to have a much smoother high end and a slightly tighter bass response. Great vid mate. :-)
Nice test ! 6L6 is a beam power tetrode (so less odd harmonics and less distortion) EL34 is a real pentode (so odd harmonics and distortion) 6CA7 is a beam power tetrode version of the EL34 (I never heard one !) for playing heavy metal like you do, EL34 is probably better sounding for playing blues jazz like I do, 6L6 (and 6V6) is what I like (lot of even harmonics and little distortion) Cleaning valves bottle is a good idea : when the valve goes hot (about 250° celsius) your fingerprint will cook and crack the glass
Sounds are very hard to quantify with words, and we all hear slightly different things. It also sounds different in the room than it does recorded down, and then the compression that youtube puts on everything changes it again. EL34 had some earlier break up than the 6L6s, and I could hear them growl a bit more. but the comparison was to let everyone hear the difference and decide for themselves. Music wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if we all agreed on everything :)
Mine is an older model, was in a pawn shop, no details, no footswitch, no guarantee. couldn't even test it. As such I anticipated some issues. Pleasantly surprised to find there was none. Had to replace a valve a few weeks in, but that's standard with second hand valve amps. Have been using it at shows and at home since I got it, never had an issue with reliability yet. No downside in performance or build quality. A very good amp for the price. Louder than you'll ever need too.
Hey that is a great comparison between two great types of tubes. You really illustrated the sonic differences well. Almost everything I've built so far has been around the 6V6/6L6/7591 family; I agree with you on the "tighter" feel to them. I'm thinking I need to give the EL34s a try.
a good topic for the video. when I was buying my first valve amp several years ago,I was stuck in analysis paralysis but was pretty certain I wanted an el34 base. I finally decided to go to long and mcquades and play several, one after the other and buy the one I liked best. I ended up with a yorkville ycv40wr (6l6 base) and have never looked back. this was after comparing against fenders, orange, Marshalls and mesa s. a few years ago, I did pick up a blackstar ht5r for practice as the ycv40 was a little overwhelming for the size of our practice space. my advice, pick your amp with your ears not it's specs. btw while there is a volume range that most amps sound good in, I don't buy into the idea that it has to dimed.
One thing that might make a difference is the quality of the original tubes in the amp. Evidently one had already failed, the other 3 could be on their last legs. The replacements of Tung Sol El34b is a fairly high quality tube. Perhaps a better comparison would be of a new set of quality 6L6s against the EL34s? Also you could probably put a pair of each in and get a mix of both worlds.
Power valves really show their tonal differences when pushed hard. This type of amp mainly relies on preamp distortion, you won't hear any change in texture there. It's the saturation of the power stage that would really differ.
Amp tech/builder since '86 here. The differences between 6L6s and EL34s are going to be hard to hear at levels below power amp clipping because of the negative feedback used in most amps with those two tube types. Usually, you can match most of the difference with your tone controls. For this reason, I recommend 6L6s because they are quite a bit more reliable and long lasting for modern master volume amps. Of course, my old Marshalls only get EL34s! Good video, thanks for posting.
The heavy sound on the EL34s, to me, felt like they had much less distortion, but had a lot more 'bite' as it were. Overall, the 6L6 tubes seemed to distort more and at lower volumes, whereas the EL34s keep their definition, and have a more full tonality. Both are very pretty.
Learning quite a bit from your videos but one thing I can teach you is to roll the tubes in a tight circular motion instead of back and forth to extract and insert them. It keeps the connections from wearing out, kind of like a plug on an outlet will loosen up.
Those Tung-Sol EL34s are probably the brightest true pentodes out there, with a clipping characteristic that is actually pretty 6L6GC-esque, so no surprise you find them brighter than expected. EL34s usually are stronger until point of breakup where they compress like crazy. 6L6GCs not that much so, though the taller the bottles the stronger the valves with these, generally.
I'm not surprised that the EL34s have more punch and volume than the 6L6s. The El34 was designed as a higher gain output valve than the 6L6. The 6L6 was designed in the mid 1930s . The EL34 was released by Philips in 1949. The 6L6 has a more linear characteristic than the EL34 which was made for higher output amps and it has more harmonic distortion than the 6L6. When thinking of valve output stages one needs to consider the quality of the output transformer and the class of operation ( A vs AB1 and even AB2). I've seen a circuit of an early Marshall with the bias and cathode resistors purposely mismatched to produce a particular sound quality and distortion. Also the amount of negative feedback around the output circuit effects the sound too. When comparing the 2 tube types as in the video there are many variables which can be attributed to more than just the valve type itself. It becomes rather subjective than just techy and down to the sound the guitarist likes for their type of music etc
Rather unique, those Tung Sol EL34s, in that they were designed to sound closer to a 6L6GC than your average EL34. That gives them a bit more open top end than usual. Then of course there are 6L6GCs that are quite dark or mid centred too.
My opinion: for a comparison like this, if you use a standard tuning (or at least higher than Drop Bb) on the guitar and a less bassy eq on the amp, we absolutely can understand the difference between the valves better than we do with your setup. With DropBb guitar and bassy eq the valves sound pretty similar, but they absolutely aren't...
Not sure why people are saying there's not much difference here. Too me it's the difference between Van Halen and Electric Wizard (okay so it's not an EW tone but you get my point). Sometimes I"m a 6v6/6l6 fan but in this case, EL34 sounds like it has a lot more depth and texture...and just plain sounds more badass!
The issue with these Bugeras is that they actually don’t self bias properly. To make them work with both types of valve the plate voltage is really low and both tube types run really cold. I modified a friend’s 333 heads to run at properly with each valve. He did lose the ability to interchange the valves but the amps sounded entirely different from the stock heads.
My Valveking Mkll is my only amp that can take both of these valves. The EL 34s improved the amp characteristics drastically over the factory 6L6. I have some KT77s i want to try next.
The el34 has more midrange. The 6L6 has a more scooped sound. The el34 has a bit more attitude, the 6L6 has a better dynamic and tonal range. I vote for the 6L6. That's why I put them in my Marshalls.
Tubes can be removed without the risk of breaking by using a circular motion and easing them out. Don't worry about the sockets because they're meant to handle the circular motion.
Just got into tube amps from moving from solid state. I had no idea that the different valves gave different sounds and from this video I don't think it matters. Both sound great.
I thought your video was an excellent depiction of the different tonal sound from the tubes. Varying from power chords to picking and bassy notes from the B string. Good job. I listened through good headphones on my galaxy s and noticed a lot of variances between the two. I thought I was going to prefer the el34's but I felt they sounded a bit muddy on the bottom end.
your are exactly right in your observation.. EL34 has much more internal gain than a 6L6GC.. The 6L6GC is a more "efficient" tube as it spends less energy at the screen (max 5W vs 8W for a EL34) and more on the plate (30W vs 25W for the EL34). The EL34 has a much higher transconductance and needs less bias voltage to drive it at a plate voltage of 450V. The biggest difference is the beam forming element in the 6l6GC tube that focuses the emited electrons to a more narrow area. Also look at the shape of the loadlines of a EL34 vs a 6l6GC, the 6L6GC has a kink early on the loadline.. EL34 are not normally taught as having a good clean sound but that is probably because most guitar amp run the screen voltage rather high like 465V in a marshall and why we need to add huge 5W 1K to 1.5K screen resistors om each tube. If you designed an amp with 375V on the plates and screens it would probably sound sweeter with the standard marshall 3.4K OT load and have an output of ~40W if you had a stout power supply. .. We are really pushing the plate limit with the stock marshall 3.4K OT for a pair at 465V. The marshall gets away with it. as the power transformer voltage will sag a little under heavy current draw. I think if you wanted a better clean sound from a pair of EL34 you would have two power rails, so the plate and screen are feed from their own line. That way you could keep the screen voltage constant (335V) at a lower voltage than the plate voltage you would have much higher (700V) and an OT with a much higher impedance to match the high plate voltage... (MusicMan HD130 amp)
Would the 6L6s be better used for an acoustic amp, especially with a 12 string acoustic guitar? The first riff you played sounded better with 6L6s, but EL34s sounded great overall (to my ears). Great video!
Yes, that is the thing they all know nothing about. The preamp is the one shaping 80% of the tone. Power amp only has 20% to do with the tone. Therefore the only way to hear the other 20% of the power amp tone is to crank the fucking thing. But like always, the little bird brains on youtube have no clue as to why it is what it really is. All they know is what they read on threads. When really the preamp is 80% of the tone, If preamp sucks the whole fucking amp sucks. You will never hear the other 20% until you crank the poweramp.
Watched this video months ago...I have an amp that you can swap the tubes out with a flip of a switch...just for feedback on the video and for the folks wondering which tubes to purchase etc., Here's what I found ...I bought the EL34's excited to try them to get a More Marshall crunch...and I guess it worked...'cause I took my amp out LIVE and played a gig (forgetting I did the swap from 6L6 to EL34)...I found myself all night trying to get enough BOTTOM END from my amp...so I went back to my 6L6's....just my opinion....I won't be going back to the EL34 atleast LIVE anyways....Thanks for the great videos!
Interesting. I agreed with your assessment that the EL34s had the greater gain and distortion, but if I had to choose one or the other I prefer the sound of the 6L6s. I like crunch distortion but I also like a good solid contrast between the crunch and clean sounds and I felt the 6L6 was better for that. That being said, my IDEAL guitar sound would be a combination of the two: the EL34 for crunch/overdrive sound and the 6L6s for the clean sound. Also, I agree with you that the EL34 edged out the 6L6 for full bass, another thing that's important to me in my music.
Good video. Mix-matched 6L6 brands? My amp won't allow that. I require matched pairs. Comparison contrast depends on a lot of other factors as well. My application is Cary V-12 and trying new (Soviet made) Mullard EL34. Will re-bias when they arrive.....
Best advice to changing tubes go through eurotubes they specialize in the JJ's and they sell them whole sale and you can customize exactly what tubes you want...for example I'm running KT88s, 4 gold pin ECC83 S and 3 ECC81s in my orange rockerverb. If u get their bias probe makes life amazingly easy just unscrew your head clean your tubes with Doxitd5 retube then plus ur head up to a speak and just tweak your poteniometer. Never trust your amp when it says it'll bias it by itself if you're like this guy then you can be running your tubes too hot and boom you'll be getting half of what you paid for...but that's just my experience my amps tone has improved amazingly never go with stock ruby el34 bhts you're just wasting your tone away
I found a Mitchell PRO 100 AMP in my attic today. Looks like a two speaker out AMP with two guitar inputs (or one guitar one microphone)? Been there since the mid to late 1990's when I tried to learn the guitar (another boring story). It is missing one 6L6 Tube, but the other three Tubes look to be in perfect condition to me. Does this old amp or these tubes have any value to them? Tubes say "6L6 GC USA" on the side of them if that means anything. And the AMP says its manufactured in California. I loved the sound of your AMP by the way. Nice video, thanks...
always a great video from you. straight answers and points on all of them. you just solved my tube issue with one phrase. "the 34s have a punchier bass" that is it. sold
I've tried a shit load of tubes and 6L6s are always better for cleans in every amp I've ever tried. For gain, it depends on the preamp and personal taste. In this amp, EL34 definitely better for gain. Best EL34s = Winged C EL34... unfortunately, they aren't made anymore.
Great video Colin. Very useful to hear the comparisons. ONe Question: In your opinion, is there a perceivable difference in sound between different brands of the same type of tubes (for example a set of EL34's made by JJ, vs set of EL34's made by Mullard)?
For a metal sound, I like to think (as a generalization!) that 6L6 has a very Master of Puppets era Metallica feel. Lots of boosted highs and lows, slightly scooped mids. This tends to drown out the bass in the mix. In other words, a Mesa Boogie Mark IV or 2C+ type of tone. EL34 has a Rust In Piece era Megadeth vibe. Boosted mids, present but controlled and tight bottom end with smooth highs. I'm not sure what rig Dave and Marty were using back then, but I'd guess it was a Marshall JCM800 boosted with a tube screamer. Disclaimer: of course I know that the actual tone produced has everything to do with the guitar, pickups, amp, pedals, cabinet/speakers, mics etc. I do, however believe that the 6L6 lends itself to scooped mids and Boosted Bass due to the controlled Bass response of the power tubes. I think that because the EL34 has an inherently powerful bass response, if you try to boost the lows too much and scoop the mids, your tone can very easily become a puddle of mud. I prefer a mid-driven overdrive myself.
For Rust in Peace Dave used a VHT power amp. The rhythm tracks are all 100% Dave. I'm not sure what power valves were used, but knowing Dave is a huge Marshall fan he probably used EL34's, KT88s or 6550s. I think most of the tone came from doubling the parts (possibly even 4 x using a slightly cleaner tone left + right), cab/speaker choice, pickups and Dave's magic fingers lol.
+CSGuitars - Best way to hear the comparison is by listening back & forth to the clean tones starting at 4.15 (6L6) and 9.52 (EL34) Can't really hear any difference with all the distortion, it's pointless trying to listen to the subtle differences between the sound of the valves when there's so much distortion, i found it better skipping between these times. I have an EL84 in my Laney Lionheart and it sounds great, but i wouldn't mind having other valves to swap between if I feel like summat different but it's my first valve amp and there are so many different things written about valves it's hard to find true and not duff info. Colin, do you know which valves are interchangeable in an EL84 amp? Is is just a case of taking 1 out and inserting the new 1? My Laney Lionheart L5 Studio just has the 1 EL84 and 3 x 12AX7 pre amp valves i have no idea about biasing, would i need to do that? Cheers mate.
Hi CSG, I'm not sure I "get" this video......although well done, wouldn't both quads of tubes/valves need to be new for a more accurate evaluation of each? Also, I hear mostly pre-amp tube/valve distortion, would it not make more sense to lower the gain and increase the output volume to overdrive the output tubes/valves to saturation? Just my thoughts, maybe I'm wrong? Thanks, Tom
About to do some SERIOUS reamping for a solo album, using a Mesa/Boogie Mark V, & going to be testing ALL of the options (pentode vs. diode vs. tube, 6L6 vs El34, 90/45/10 watt settings, etc.) & I wanted to brush up on the tube differences. I thought "I wonder if my new favorite channel has a video on this"...sure enough, you do! New subscriber, & love the content + personality. Great for the adept professionals & novices alike. Keep it goin' strong, my friend \m/
Your vids are great and very helpful...thanks so much. I Liked the EL34's better. Question: Why can't I get that squeal notes? Is that a "pinch harmonic" ? I know the concept of getting a pinch harmonic and am practicing BUT...are those "squeal" notes a function of high gain pickups, the amp, the pedal, the guitar, string type.... or just technique...how can i get more of those? Running through a 2011 Bugera v22 (3 x 12AX7 pre and 2 EL84 output tubes - have never been changed, should I do that?) 1960's Tiesco guitar with low powered cheapo pickups.
To be fair it has to be said those were EL34B's. They have a higher impedence than other EL34's and are said to be more 6L6 like at lower volumes. I certainly prefer the EL34's but I mainly play a 100Watt DSL100HR all the time so it's what I'm used to but what I also naturally gravitate towards.
Hey Chris, some great sounds here. Are you expecting the EL34 to be warmer/darker as they tend to have a scooped mid response. I like the fatness of the EL34 and they dial in really well with resonance and presence tweaking. Looking forward to seeing you try out your new purchase, cheers Will 😎🤙
Would tossing in a gate or two (say in front) and somewhere in the fx loop change the hiss of the EL34s? Other part of me also thinks, just clean that up in a DAW with a gate or eq/master settings somewhere. ?
I have a Marshall 100w 1959 with four El34. I really want that AC/DC lead sound. Thinking about changing the power valves but there are so few real good guitar stores in my town.
***** What does that sound like? I can't imagine how it would be that different from how any other english speaking person says it. Does it stick to the roof of your mouth for while before finally emerging through clenched teeth?
I knew a Mullard OC71 transistor which spoke in an odd crisp British accent with a slight gallic twang. It was a Germanium transistor. Is that similar to what you're doing?
Colin were the EL34's a matched set ??? and did you replace pre amp section????. Reason I ask I used to own a Bugera 333xl,standard with EL 34'S had a few issues with it. UNTIL...... I renewed all the tubes with a matched pre amp and EL 34 tubes JJ"S then it sounded awesome true and tight... Just my opinion...
My understanding is that a matched quad is not necessary with the Infinium technology as it biases each tube separately versus a single bias point requiring all the tubing to have the same value.
So what is an EL84 tube? My JCM 2000 Marshall dsl 100 MLB amp head uses EL34's and EL84's;and can ya explain what they are and which is the better of the two? Thanks.
I have a JTM45 Bluesbreaker reissue from 1990-ish I bought new because of the 6L6's it was fitted with. I already knew I didn't like the EL34 - equipped amps I'd heard and tried. Marshall changed the JTM45 valve spec sometime this century (!) to KT66's, heaven knows why, as the 1962 Bluesbreaker amps had 6L6's in them. I really like the 'American' sound of amps with 6L6's in them. GEC KT88'S (in my experience) can sound very similar too.
Trained ear ... Lol. 'ALL THE METALZ' really narrows the difference between these power tubes ... you will still hear a stark difference between them on the cleans, though, of course ... I prefer 6L6, and both have their charm/place for crunch and lead tones ...
HEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!! xD First of all, I got a bugera 333 (the combo version) and it came with 4 6L6 valves and I have a couple questions... Does changing vavles change the sound at all?? I mean, treble, bass and mids?? What are the best brands?? I mean, are Groove valves nice?? Can I fit ENGL vavles in to my Bugera?? :p Will it sound better? :p Thanks :)
The purpose of changing valves/tubes is so that you can get a different sound (unless you are replacing as opposed to changing, which is getting the same type of tube to fix a worn-out one). My personal favorite are Ruby tubes, they aren't super expensive, and I have never had a problem with them. That being said, if you are willing to spend some more money, Mesa Boogie Tubes are fantastic. Groove tubes are pretty good, but there really aren't any brands of tubes that are absolute crap, so as long as you get tubes from a good manufacturer, you should be good. Also, tubes are Universal, you have pre-amp tubes, rectifier tubes, large power tubes, and small power tubes (small being the 6v6, el84, etc.). You have large power tubes in yours, so avoid el84s and 6v6s and you should be good. Hope this helps!
EL34's are my favorites. Good vid, Colin, & thx for recording it right, it's annoying as hell to get a vid in which the damned strumming hand is audibly slapping strings.👍
In that amp (in this video) the cleans sound similar but in my opinion 6L6's will usually sound better for that kind of music with the mids kinda scooped out. This is less apparent for the cleans in this video.
Generally I like to describe the EL34 sound as tighter and the 6L6 as looser. 6L6 are great for cleans and drop tunings, EL34's better for crunchy, more compressed sounds. Preamp gain also affects of course but to get that heavy metal tone the trick is not to drive the preamp gain too high, but rather crank the volume and get those 6L6's working. Where as the EL34's like to be compressed by the preamp gain before, makes for sweet sustainy solos. I like my Egnater Renegade that has 2 of each set and you can blend how much you want out of each set pero channel, so you could run a clean channel with 6L6's and a tight crunchy channel with EL34's, which is how I prefer to use it.
so can you normally change the types of tubes/valves in amps? i have a traynor amp with el34s but i tend to like 6L6s and i wanted to know if i could switch them out
The INFINIUM 'tube life multiplier' feature allows for using a mix of any compatible power amp valves and it will constantly monitor and change each one to be identical even if you shove a 6L6, EL34, 6550 and a KT88 say. Hence it won't sound any different and it doesn't above despite a good quality video with good quality sound, That is always much appreciated. It is great as using any of the Bugera's packing INFINIUM will save the user on shelling out for matched sets of power-amp valves. Laney's IronHeart IRT range (the 50 and 100 watt models at least) allow for the use of either 6L6s or EL34s, Are priced right just like Bugera's. So I would recommend one as a good choice for demonstrating the characteristics of each valve. Not to mention the built-in attenuation on the IronHeart if wanted/needed which will make the differences even more accessible to anyone curious
Most amps are NOT capable of interchanging valve types. The Bugeras and some Mesa amps are the few that are designed with this functionality in mind. Other amps would need some professional work to convert from one valve type to another.
I bought that head some time last week...i played out with it last night...Keep in mind this is my first tube amp... I had the channel volume down for playing at my house and instead of being smart and turning them up and the master down i just turned up the master...I kept getting really bad feedback...Lol i guess you have to learn some things the hard way. Also i think im gonna keep the valves it came with. Nice vid man.
With three 12AX7 preamp tubes, I run a pair U.S. made Sylvania 6L6GC's in my '84 Carvin X-60C i not only my Valentine (bought 20yrs ago on...you guessed it!), but when i crank both channels, especially the dirty one, it becomes a 'California Marshall' which makes me wonder how it would behave with a pair of EL34s!
Based on your video it seems to me that the EL84's have a much crisper transient response and better note definition between the strings. There seems to be about the same amount of gain between the two. It's too bad the EL34's are much noisier than than the 6l6's. The 84's have a great tone!
This is the exact video I was looking for. Have the amp and wondered about swapping. I'm thinking of doing two JJ EL34L's and two 6L6's yet to be decided.
Man I just picked up a crate tv6210 it has 6l6's the reverb feeds back and im changin the pt to el34. My question is what specific groovetube preamp tubes would be good for the hard rock metal?
I have 2 amps 6L6 and el34's. I personally feel that the el34's are more tubish warmer sounding and smoother breaking up,, more natural and organic, but it's hard to push a clean channel without breakup. Meanwhile 6L6cs are less tubish, has a harsher treble frequency and don't breakup as well. I feel like 6L6's stands in between El34's and solidstate. But 6L6's are better on loud clean channels and seem to have a larger frequency band width, that making 6L6 a better pedalboard platform. But for a classic rock smooth overdriven juicy crunch without the fizz EL34's a win for me.
Sound can be subjective but to me the 6l6 sounded "tighter" in the mids, if that even makes sense. The lows, especially when muted had a better crunch than the EL34 but sounded a little muddy, which is fine with me. However, I would use either of them because the bottom line is they both sound great. I wouldn't freak out if a 6l6 died and all I could get was EL34.
i definitely appreciate the EL34s better than the 6L6 tubes... ALOT more defined mid-ranged balance... the highs aren't as piercing and the lows are well balanced in there compared the screechy-ness of the 6L6 tubes... thanks for the video...
