[Vampire: The Masquerade] The Guide to Clan Tzimisce 

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Honestly your summary of Sabbat practices is refreshingly accurate. You’re not free, you’re broken down, brainwashed, and repurposed.

Answering to your challenge. I like the bane you proposed where the Tzimice morphs uncontrollably any mortal it touches for a high humanity character. The Tzimice is horrified by this curse and goes in a path of no physical contact avoiding touching anyone and develops auspex powers instead.

i never specifically saw the tzimisce as "serial killer" types or betrayers by default- but definitely creepy. I think of them in terms of The Thing. They are looking for someone who isnt content being themselves- or rather they almost can't. People with double lives. People who change their bodies and faces even in mortal life. I think that while the Nosferatu may dream of mastering the Mask of a Thousand Faces, or the Malkavian might just waltz in wherever, half aware of who they even are- its all ephemeral by comparison. The Tzimisce covet parts of people. Parts of their bodies, their voice, their personalities. They don't just want to pretend- they want to have it. A tzimisce in modern times is likely to be many people at a time- worming their way through unlife and adopting new identities as they pave the way to whatever it is they're after. They will kill people and take not just their skin, but their life, their home, their influence on the world- and then theyll do it again to someone else because deep down- there is nothing real inside. I think the tzimisce curse should be constant fixation on traits others have- and the only way they can fully "ground themselves", literally when they sleep is to have pieces of their past surround them that reminds them who they are. It starts with the dirt, but it grows into plants, into knicknacks, and chotchskies, taxidermy of specific animals, and little things from their life because every time they look in the mirror, they dont recognize themselves- no matter how many photos they use as reference to put things back the way they were. Maybe the flip side is they can not help themselves but to steal little inconsequential things- bracelets, socks, reading glasses- from the people they fixate on. Made worse if they have higher levels of auspex. When obfuscate drops, it's user is back to who they were- but when a Tzimisce changes faces, they always have to sort out what's theirs, what's a facade... and what they just can't let go of.

Loved your thoughts on Tzimisce. I'm currently STing a V5 game with a player who is doing a pretty good run of a Anarch Tzimisce. I think they do a great job of playing with and against the archetype of the clan in two big ways. The characters big ambition is to be a baron to protect the little guy kindred like thin-bloods, which would be very brujah- except he can't quite help doing it in a very dragon way: his haven becomes a castle, his domain his fief, the people he's protecting as much his possessions. Second, his sire raised him *against* the sabbat because of how much of a monster his grandsire was. His city now has a big sabbat threat, and who better to fight the sabbat than the Anarch Tzimisce who can go toe-to-toe with the monsters. . . Then again, what anarch would trust you after they've seen what you can do? It's a great character story of wanting to accomplish something but having the worst tools to do it with. What do you do when you don't want to drive in the nail, and the world just keeps handing you hammers?

So, here's my answer for the challenge: I can imagine how a really young Tzimisce, created by his sire back in Romania purely as a servant, was liberated by some Ventrue or Torie. And kept as blood bound servant for a while. But when some small domain lost his Prince, and it's save to assume it was to Anarchs, the new master decides to use the Fiend and his diplomacy and insight as a pawn and set him up at the position of this low important Prince. That gives weight on the feudal history of the clan. I see some fun in attempt to utilize "the old ways" in those new times.

Hmmm...I've had an idea for non-sabbat Tzimisce: a girl of Asian descent (Chinese or Korean) who started studying medicine at the university. The girl is a shy, bookworm-type person. One day her friend invites her to a party, where she is drugged and taken by the Sabbat to a place where shovel heading will be performed. She gets embraced but she is too weak to dig herself from her grave the first night after embrace but she manages to do it on next. In an awful timing at first, she digs herself to meet face to face with Sherrif and his hounds. She gets captured, staked, and taken for interrogation. They tell her who she is and introduce her properly to her new life, thinking she is a Caitiff. Only too much later discovers she is one of the fiends.

One important fact about Vicissitude. It allows change. The vampiric form doesn't normally change, but an individual vampire may absolutely change over time. Things such as being more effective, change your identity so you can hide after a masquerade breach, change your sex, make yourself look older, younger, or a whole different person. That power is not only terrible, but if a vampire (Such as the one am to play on the following campaign) offers it as a service for other vampires, many vampires will be willing to pay much for it. I believe that if a Tzim, were to join camarilla or anarchs, they would be highly valuable for those incredible services. Therefore allowing one to play in a similar way to a Ministry or a Tremere.

Thing is, I virtually never play characters "to type". Whatever thing folks have latched onto, I'll find /something/ in the source material to lean into to not do that. Some way to play a character that seems wildly atypical, but actually fits when you go past the elevator pitch version of their description. It's actually pretty easy to make Tzimisce who are true to the clan without being cartoonishly villainous, and can fit into other groups reasonably well. Heck, let's be real - the Camarilla is also full of monsters, it's just full of the sort of monsters that can work with others... and the Tzimisce that /aren't/ the elevator pitch version of their clan can be very good at that. With Tzimisce this means I'd lean into the scholar, perfection-seeking or things like noblesse oblige. They might be monsters, but they'd be refined monsters who understand there's a time and a place to let it all hang out. A whole major subtype in the source material is basically riffing on Doctor Doom. For my characters, (PCs and NPCs both), if they had a sabat membership at all it was very much maintained purely as a formality. The tzimisce were given the ability to scrub blood bonds, through kuldunic sorcery, and at least one of the books suggested pretty heavily a decently sized side of the clan basically pretended sect loyalty for convenience more than anything else. And really, the sabat as written are kind of terrible as anything other than punching bags. Notable examples: the doctor who used fleshcraft to save lives, and was an absolute perfectionist in his profession. the transhumanist who had no pressing interesting in altering others. the occult scholar who practice vicissitude for self-defence, and the knight who saw the zulo form as being both practical development and a clan status symbol.

I feel like its clear why people are naturally drawn towards Vicissitude if they want to play Tzimisce, its a very iconic, emotive power to have. So if you want to go with someone who isn't a one dimensional sadistic sabbat vampire I think its worth considering how your character uses their Vicissitude or Protean+ Dominate in a way that is perhaps a little less psychotic, if not necessarily healthy. Maybe for example they aren't forcing anyone to do anything, but people are coming to them, the athlete that wants to be faster or stronger, the person who wants to be more beautiful. Even if in a way its using people's insecurities, obsessions and desperations to gain things like mortal followers for a herd the Tzimisce themselves says "look i'm not forcing anyone to do anything, I'm simply helping people and getting back what i need in return, which is probably better than half of you lot who jump drunks in an alley or use mind control of get people to give over their blood." While it requires significant mastery over their powers while a lot of vicissitude users make horrible monstrosities there's probably simply ways of using their powers in the reverse for avoiding masquerade breaches, turning a ghoul into a body double for their vampiric master would allow them to appear to make pubic appearances in the day time and have less trouble eating and drinking which would probably throw off suspicion for vampire hunters in the know. I like the general idea behind your clan bane but I might think limit it more towards those they feed upon rather than literally anyone they touch, perhaps with it often manifesting as strange marks or a mess of nasty scars surrounding the wound, having it be absolutely everyone they touch would seem a little extreme.

Honestly the different flavors of personal ascension that you can get into with proper imagination lets me get away with quite a bit in any faction, from the Cammies to the Sabbat. It’s just about how to twist what metamorphosis means to suit personal survival and power.

Tzimisce with 4dots of Auspex, .. 1998 to early 2000's. Tzimisce Clan book, character arch type template: Occult Scholar trained by Old Clan compared to new/current clan . Well, since first dot power ability you can See Ghost, the ability to talk to ghost is in question. Anyway, the first two dots in Auspex allows the PC to function as a Cold Reader in street hustles and fortune tarot card deck reader. Later you make opposing rolls of Auspex to target willpower to read surface thoughts. Now other than the B.s. dealing with discipline training time, as a ghoul mortal or as an embrace kindred, just have to love a good Ol 'fashion shove party. I got hit on the back of the head, woke up thirsty and I was seeing .. things, auras are one thing but the .. things .. I seen leave me more than a bit worried. As for character story plot arc, more or less it is base on the group of players you are gaming with that sets the mood. My past group tend to run shade moral alignment PC, .. a.) Star Wars, Sith lords or smugglers working for Hutt cartels. Every once in a while, we player Jedi. As for the Jedi campaign of Fall of the Republic and Rise of the Empire. We ran stories of Jedi waking up screaming from battle exhaustion with PTSD war field nightmares. Just because a given Jedi fall to the Darkside, it doesn't mean they willing go join the Sith. We even had Jedi use darkside powers under context of telling a good drama story. Now as for Palpatine dropping post hypnotic suggestions on Anakin over the years, poor boy never had a chance. b.) Most Vampire games run Sabbat cleaning squads. To near comic effect. Set in the DC/Marvel universe, to Superman the Carmilla is just another underground crime organization. The Punisher avoids most supernatural that keeps their heads down, and Blade comes off more of a Hound. Any time we played Carmilla, we played as the F-ck ups that you send to deal with .. problems. You know, the weird stuff. If you were a data processer that work nights, got turn for health reasons and drink at the local blood bank and not hunting/murdering, Blade will just leave you alone. Then you have those things that hunt werewolves along with Changeling wild hunts men.

I’m playing a young Tzimisce who was sent to Chicago to pave the way for his Sire, who has defected from the Sabbat. Most of the sect went off to the Gehenna War. She said “No thanks.”, and sent her multiple childer to various cities with orders to prepare a domain and get the Cam to agree to allow her to exist in their city. This is basically my character’s long term goal. He is more “Dracula” like, with more of a focus on classic Protean, and not so much about the “dark side” of Protean (Vicissitude, obviously). That will come in time as his Humanity drops. And the things he collects and sleeps with during the day is people. He collects people who are experts in skills he can make use of. And his end goal is to eventually Embrace them, then diablerize them, in hopes of absorbing some of their skills. So you could argue that he actually collects skills and knowledge. He is on the Path of Power and the Inner Voice, and I seen him either going the “evil” route in which he builds his “castle”, delves into Vicissitude, and manipulates others until he can call his sire to her new home. The “good” path is him falling for one of his “pets”, rejecting his Path, regaining some Humanity, and killing his evil sire when she arrives. Not sure which way I’m going yet. We’ll figure it out as we go.

I ran a dark ages game with some young Tzimices in Търново 1204. They had invited a few powerful vampires of the other clans in order to loosen the iron hand of there elders and push them north of the Danube. So you have an interesting diverse camarilla like city as one political pillar and the Tzimices who's main base was a large mansion ( with whole dungeons dedicated to flesh-crafting) outside the city as the second main party. One player was playing a Tzimice under the tutelage of a dominant mistress, who gave him a haven inside the city, so he could learn the ways in which the other clans survive these nights. Using vicissitude would not be a problem if all traces where gone and non of the surviving mortals knew a thing, otherwise he would embarrass his sire and become a part of the motives in the dungeons.

One way the fractured nature of the clan could be made into a story asset is having separate groups of fiends create neo tzimitsce dynasty's and have them compete for who becomes the "real clan". For instance, their were those revenant blood lines, each blood line becomes its own tzmitsce blood line and wars with the others

Tzimisce .. flesh craft, " How much are you willing to pay to have that spinal surgery to walk again ?" Bone craft ? bent or crook legs and spine ? That can also be fixed.

Good evening, i m kinda amazed by your descriptions of the clan and also i agree that every clan needs a reworking to be playable. And i for myself are at most sick of those one-trick-ponys nearly everyone wants. So, the more i appreciate originaly / unique character concepts and those are granted more freeroom at my leash as a storyteller. Once i had a young woman, fresh to the concept of RPG/ pen&paper stuff, joining a etablished groupe for a oneshot. She offered an character idea that was THE optimal fit for clan tzimicse, as i thought. Introducing her character as a fledgeling of unknown origin made also a nice plothook for the nosferatu adjutant of the sherif in our groupe. No one could imagine her clan in those few hours, until i described her weakness she discovered step by step, as well as her gifts. I modded the clan bane/weekness as following: - she ll loose her appearance step by step every day she sleept at a place she doesnt own - respresented in loss of blood and increased hunger - and by feeding she left her victims , kinda deformed , while adding the appearance of the victims to her own That was 2 years ago, and i havent played since... I´d love to follow those days again... Hope i could met your challange somehow. Have a good night my lord Yours sincerely Peter / Arkodor 🐺

On the subject of Camarilla Tzimisce. The more Byzantine style, with there ties to the Dream can play a role in more civilised environments. Appearing monastic with change as a philosophy. They have ties to both Ventrue and Toreador. They maintained, to a decree, there elder structures, even inside the Sabbat and Dracon himself is back (and able to be taken as a mentor via loresheet...).

Your auspex Tzimisce in the camarilla. Challenge accepted. This spot right here is her domain, her castle, her home. She doesn't give a rat's arse who thinks they are the master of this city tonight or what sect they tip their cap to. The only thing that would matter less is what flag the local kine kowtow to. Our vamp isn't going anywhere. The only reason she doesn't seek to rule outright her way is she simply isn't strong enough. So she simply has to put up with the twiterlings of the local court and grin and bare it. At least they are somewhat less likely to rip her throat out than the Garrou.

"What do I have to do to make you proud?" "Don't fuck up." I died.

Because Auspex is a fun discipline! I'd rather get mind reading in V5 for a Tzimisce than the zulo form because if the Tzmisce alienate themselves not just from humans but also vampires then throw the touchstone mechanic out the window, but I like the idea that they take an active approach to holding onto humanity and that involves literally reading peoples minds to see how they fare in social situations. At least my elder Tzimisces can't read facial expressions so maybe it comes with time.

Me. I was that guy who put all his dots into Viccisitude at the start of a Dark Ages chronicle. Made ot all the way to Ghennha. Good times.

I quite enjoyed your back-and-forth faux-roleplay with yourself as the Tzimisce sire and childe. Heck, it might be fun to see you do that with other more "alien"/hard-to-play/understand clans like The Ministry. I've watched all the videos I can on The Ministry, including yours, and it's still hard to wrap my head around them. Being compelled to tempt people into humanity stains constantly instills this idea of them being an "evil clan" purely obsessed with being scummy for the sake of being scummy. Well, that or full-on cultists. Every time I try to dream up a Ministry character, the rules/lore just makes them seem like such fiends.

Running the game, I love the Clive-Barker-esque, intensely monstrous Tzimisce, but when imagining a Tzimisce to play, my first thought ends up off-type. I wondered, what if a sire used vicissitude to repair their childe's limbs lost to injury during mortal life? The fledgling's first exposure to the discipline is through a kindness.

I have a Tzimisce character that is meant to be like the most un-Tzimisce Tzimisce possible. Being self destructively generous moral. Being turned basically because his sire thought it would be funny to watch him struggle as a fiend. The only reason he had vicissitude is because he’s a cosmetic surgeon that picked it up by fixing small mistakes in his work and just progressively getting better at it

Re: Tzimisce being in the "wrong sect" and "hiding" in the Camarilla, non-Sabbat-aligned Tzimisce: isn't there precedent in early V5 (Camarilla sourcebook) of Tzimisce in the Camarilla? Isn't the Prince of Tokyo a Camarilla Tzimisce?

If I was playing a Camarilla Tzimisce I would go for a rouge from the clan. Like a young shovel head who got turned against their will, and the first second their sire wasn't looking they ran. Keep only 1 dot in flesh craft to reflect how I can do it, but lack training. I got pulled into the Camarilla, basically an older vampire in some position of power recognizing a Tzimisce with no ties to the Sabbat could be useful. Using what little I know of flesh craft to work nights as a cosmetic surgeon for my cover in mortal society maybe. Then it keeps the old sire like a true fae from changeling the lost. My sire's name terrifies me, I remember that thing and what it made me do. I will never go back. Lets me cling to my humanity in an even more terrified way, maybe the Tzimisce blood really does corrupt so I constantly fight these new urges, my sire told me to give in and ride the wave, but I won't. It allows for a consistent desperate clinging to my humanity that some other newly turned vampires might forget how close they are to losing a piece of themselves. I never forget. Doubly if you go with the new bane, I might go for blood bags out of fear of what I'll do and because I hate the reminder of what I am now That's at least my idea for a non-sabbat Tzimisce

Some really good ideas and insights here. The alternate flaw is especially inspired; the uncontrollable marriage of body horror to the intimacy of touch. Very fiendish, indeed. Also, I agree with not allowing any circumvention of the original flaw with not-so-clever uses of Vicissitude. Taking a strict interpretation of “surrounded by two-handfuls” implies an unbroken circle; very ritualistic while also being as manageable or as inconvenient as the story needs. I also very much agree that Tzimisce should have the otherworldly insight of Auspex and not the subtle, Masquerade-safe puppetry of Dominate, but I’ve written that tirade a few times on OPP forums and Reddit, so I’ll skip it here. As far as non-Sabbat Tzimisce, I like taking a sort of “Verbena”-esque approach to the clan. Life, blood, other bodily fluids, scarification, evolution, “the protection of moist Mother Earth,” (from Anarchs Unbound). Don’t be afraid to get dirty; the “Tzimisce are weird Gangrel” slant is a vibe. Lastly, really looking forward to Curseborne.

For me, Clan Tzimisce represent the vampire as a metaphor for change or self improvement gone horribly wrong. Tzimisce can change any flesh, for better lr for worse. But they, in turn do not change themselves. They do not change with the times. Instead,the change thouse around them (With fleshcrafting of course). They are the superior ones after all. Why should they be molded by others? If anything, you should change to them. And despite all their seeming superiority, they are on the decline. Their rep took a hit when the Tremere weather the storm of the most terrifying clan's attacks after the Tremere experimented on various fiends. Then the Tzimisce were shunted into the Sabbat while the Tremere ascended to the lofty ranks of the Camarilla. Why? Because the Tremere had enough humanity to understand teamwork and keep their people skills while the Tzimisce would rather squabble among their peers or play with themselves in their castles. They forgot to develop their soft skills as they played Cruel Lord of the Manor or worked on "self improvement" Also I think the Path of Metamorphosis is truely the Path of The Narcissistic Sociopath. It certainly reads like it, if memory serves. Its all about them and their supposed transcendence.

I almost always base my Tzimisce characters, at least in part, on the Wamphyri from Necroscope

My answer to the challenge: a shovelhead who was "adopted" by a local elder as an experiment to see if the savages could be domesticated. The Tzimitze becomes an official member of the camerilla but is regularly mocked and belittled while holding a desire for power and respect. They learn of vissicitude but no matter how hard they try they are unable to learn without a mentor. So they try to seek one out to get revenge on all those who wronged them while also playing the pet of their "masters"

I've never played V:TM so I don't know the exact specs of Vicissitude, can it be used to heal? Like, you get embraced, you learn of this unique tradition your clan has of fleshcraft, can you use that to remove people's cancer? To unscar their liver? Regrow lost limbs? Cure genetic defects? If it can, a high humanity Tzimisce doctor would be an awesome character

How did the Tzimisce and Shadow Lords deal with the USSR during the Cold War in eastern Europe ? How did they bribe to cover up their lairs without ending up as tank or missile weapon test fire locations ?

My non-Sabbat non-Vicissitude Tzimisce concept is drawn pretty heavily from their V5 Bane, the need to surround themselves in Daysleep with not earth (though it can be) but something they have claimed as theirs. Their Dragon's hoard, be it objects, people, whatever. As long as it's a collection of a specific thing and its yours. This Tzimisce's hoard is Fetters. They run and end of life care facility, making a herd of it's residents. Almost never cruel to those under their care. And when those people pass on, they search with their Limited Oblivion for the fetters and spirits. To keep them, and use them, forever not for power or knowledge like the Hecata but for the simple sake of it being theirs. They cultivated these spirits, these fetters, and they will defend their crop and their harvest.

I hope some of the discussion is devoted to the Old Clan.

One idea for a Tzimisce playing against type (It can be a meme though) is one that is willing to help transgender individuals transition into the opposite sex. But the kore i think about it, the more i can see how things could go wrong with fleshcrafting due to the nature of the curse, how it turns those who undrrgo the prodedure into walking masquerade breaches (At least not without the proper paperwork) and how the Tzimisce would then ask for money or favours in return. Because a Tzimisce has a lifestyle to maintain.

How is Tzimisce compare to Ordo Dracul? Which is better at transcendence? And which would typically have higher Humanity?

I like your suggestion of a different clan bane. The only tweak I would add is to make it based on some sort of dice roll so it is more about risk taking, fitting in with V5. Perhaps they make a check as if it were a current hunger check as they wrestle with their beast, but instead of gaining another hunger, their beast warps the flesh of those they touch.

Random index card draws with premade PC with basic character arch type, player just bring PC role to life. a.) 1800's Irish great potato famine. Irish street/roadside preacher got turn and staked as a joke, stuff in a barrel and ship to the Us to set in warehouse storage till the 2000's. Player Hams up the PC rolling his R's Irish style, stops due to the way everyone was smiling at him and breaks character, " This isn't a Carmilla house is it ?" He started off as a good Irish Catholic boy, the things the Sabbat twisted him to do was just sad, .. and sick. But his holier than thou preaching turn Satanic was .. was .. it was not funny in the slightest. " In the pale moonlight I heard Cain speak to me, in mind and soul. Can you hear him, cause I hear him, and he has a massage for you." Plot wise, that PC has multiple derangements from blood bonding. The Carmilla princesses pay the Sabbat to bring that guy around for the religious stage theater performance. Yes the Sabbat are monsters, but once you break their blood bonds and realign them, they can be quit charming in a crass manner. They also make useful cannon fodder.

I suppose if I was to make a Tzimisce with Auspex 3+ in a Camarilla chronicle is would do something like a intellect focused forensic pathologist who is a bit tyrannical in his morgue/lab.

For the challenge I got a bit inspired when you talked about the "Fallen from grace" clan. What about a concept of a Tzimisce that wants to learn more about his own clan and lineage. A bit like a noddist but just for the clan. And as he talks and interrogates fellow sabbat he just ends up figuring out that most of the clan members are just too youthful to actually remember/know what happened, he then leaves to go find Camarilla elders to get first hand accounts, or yoink them out with a bit of telepathy.

Imo i think the tzmisce are perfect for the sabbat in that the sabbat is what happens if you ask a fiend (and lasombra) to do 'freedom' and the sect very strongly reflects their attitudes . The anarchs are a terrible choice for them on a number of levels. If i was dead set on having them out the sword as per 5th. Id have them as an independant clan setting up regional voivodes. In terms of anarch dragons i was playing with the idea of them being a niche group strongly alligned with lgbtq and other smaller groups in urban communities. This allows for an outlet for the communities interest in queer tzmisce ive been seeing while also making a more plausable reason for anarch dragons.

As to why a person might want to go all in to the fleshcrafting discipline as a character (sorry cant spell that word). If i were turned i would go all in on it, because i am fascinated by the fleshcrafting of necromancy, bending your undead servants into beautiful monstrosities. I also love biopunk and things like that, so for my the fleshcrafting discipline falls right into my admittedly twisted lap. I think the bane you came up with is interesting, but i think it would be better if instead of they just mutate is their flesh softens almost in anticipation of your sculpting them. That way you can still interact without outing yourself instantly, but its still a bane that could snowball very quickly.

Nice! Am looking forward for a chance to play tzim, so this will cpme in handy. Am thinking going full businessman tzim xD

how about a Tzimisce healer, uses her vicissitude power to heal. yah this one goes against the grain.

The Oradea League was right.

no love for kolduns?