"Listen guys, we got hacked because our security sucks. And with that situation we now have to give each and every one of you who wants to play League, your very own Kernel level malware. Trust us, because we know security."
"I don't understand cybersecurity because I am not a programmer in cybersecurity" It's not because their security sucks. It's because hackers know what they are doing, and can find what you can't. No security is perfect. It's impossible to be 100% secure. Don't be stupid.
Honestly, pretty funny and very true. Like come on riot hire some online security experts or something. I will say that I don’t think think Vanguard is malware but also I’m one person and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What you said was funny though keep it up!
@@kelintheranger It's guaranteed that League will still have scripters/hackers. The cheats might cost more, but there will still be people who are willing to part with that much.
If anti-cheat has to run on your pc 24/7, the game is not worth it. Your privacy should not be monitored. Also...i am sure they sell data to other companys by doing that.
That's because game has cancer spaghetti code and devs aren't willing to fix it, so they'd rather sit in a bunker and threaten everybody with their atomic bomb "vanguard"
I roll my eyes at you 🙄. I will bet you my life savings that they don’t sell your data. Keep this comment in your back pocket if I’m ever wrong and it comes out that they do, in fact, sell your data. However, I’m sleeping soundly knowing my money is probably well bet.
So excited to install a kernel level anti-cheat that is always on that is being released by a company that had all of their source code hacked. No way that could go wrong.
They got hacked once. In 15 years of running this game. Once. Stop being a drama queen, you already probably gave it to other much less secure game companies
You cant, I used to play valorant, sometimes I had to stop vanguard to play league even if I had nothing else running but I could have solid works (3d design software) running if I was working on something and I wanted to play one or 2 league games
2024 resolution by riot: “Fix buggy client” But come on do we really think they’re gonna do that? They might, but more likely they spend their time on another $200 skin to rake in that sweet, sweet money from us lowly peasant who just want a cool skin :(
We've just got 20 new bugged items and a new champ with 50+ bugs they won't ever fix will come to live servers next week. They just add new content too fast for them to keep it working. Maybe RITO is just so bumb they think it's not bugs but cheaters who bricks everything they do.
Even if thay are (like for ex. in high elo) it wont solve the problem. It will stop cheaters for like 1 or 2 months and then thay will find workarounds and will continue cheating. All people talking about "no cheaters" in valorant are on huge copium.
Wait, people are unironically playing League of Legends in 2024? I quit in S2 and was like "this ain't gonna last long" and now I see this suggested as a video
It's not about Vanguard being kernel level. It's about it being permanently on, booting BEFORE your system, and it's already known to block regular programs that are not even related to gaming, crash and even blue screen PCs if it conflicts with programs or drivers. And let's not get started on how trustworthy Tencent is, that's a whole different story.
My issue with Tencent being Chinese isn’t some nationalist thing, it’s that if they are found to be scraping data, how are they gonna be really held liable if the company is based in another country?
@@tommy5965 You missed the point entirely. Many anti-cheats are kernel based and run on game initialization. I dont need Vanguard running while I'm casually using my PC. Fk outta here.
I agree I have not had problems with cheaters in league and my friend who has played since launch said he can count the amount of cheaters hes seen on one hand
Tbh usually all a cheater means is a lost laning phase because the most common kind of cheating is scripting and that becomes significantly less useful once macro becomes more important later into a game. Most cheaters are really bad players and cheating doesn't change that, so they fall off once laning ends and cheats alone can't carry them.
I see cheaters. Not a lot but enough of them. They just dodge and hit spells. In a game like league this isnt nearly scary enough to warrant a kernel level anticheat. If the ADC cheats, our top laner or assasin can kill it with no issue. I'd rather play against 5 stack cheaters than use vanguard. Chinese spyware ahh software. THE TROLLS ON THE OTHER HAND. Work on a detection for trollers they are the most common and unbearable part of league. I'd rather have 5 cheaters call me the n word and the f slur than a teammate that afks and ints.
@@jpaul3786 Yep. Been playing since just after the beta and i've played against 2 obvious scripters. Feels like Riot throwing their casual playerbase under the bus for "muh high elo" once again. (even though 99% of players are casual/low elo)
I mean... they just can monitor everything a million people do 24/7 so they maybe spot the 1 of them cheating during a 15 minute game can't see anything bad on that. Also League is such a skill based game you won't get from silver anyway even with all the hacks of the world if you suck so the proper AC is pure neccessity... obviously.
@@petrjara7559 you wont mean anything when the kernel level anti cheat system will break either your processor, your old window after an update, or ur ssd/hdd and u will lose all ur private information and documents and photo
@@wnsjimbo2863 No, they are just tired of companies finding new ways to compromise our privacy even more while pretending that they are doing it "for our own good". A very valid point in my opinion.
Hopefully the content creators behind skinspotlights and custom skins can be allowed to continue. They do similar things on Valorants side of things so hopefully we get similar treatment.
Custom skins are probably dead, but Riot Pupulasers already stated the team is asking around for something they can use to help SkinSpotlights continue his work.
To be honest i hope skin spotlight will survive but i also hope custom skins will be banned, because its only a matter of time before someone creates a custom skins that clearly shows where a skillshot is going or show it earlier than it should, so to prevent the drama from happening Just ban it now.
People don’t understand the difference between Vanguard and Battleye. Most people don’t have a data issue with vanguard. It is a security issue. Riot isn’t the problem though. It is like putting a key under the rug at your front door and only telling riot about it. A competent hacker can come along and use this key should they want access to your shit. BATTLEYE IS SECURE IN THIS CASE. They are managed by a company made for anticheat. Vanguard is made by riot, the devs of the league client. IF THIS SOUNDS LIKE TIN HAT SHIT LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE GENSHIN IMPACT ANTICHEAT THING A YEAR AGO. It’s happened, and don’t be surprised if it happens again.
S14: "In order to punish cheaters, we are punishing the entire community along with it" S13: "In order to punish smurfs, we are ruining the mmr system for the entire game"
The worst part isn't that a kernel level anti-cheat exists, it's the fact that the vast majority will put up with it until it becomes mainstream. But I am not the vast majority, so bye bye League of Legends.
Honestly, very based comment. The fact that it’s so common is pretty concerning. With that said, people suck. Chalk it up to bad actors ruining it for the rest of us. Sad I won’t see you on the rift anymore. Still awesome opinion though I agree.
@@Svenson_IV yeah those are already on the fence. you need companies to be accountable to really trust normal kernel anticheats, but vanguard simply crosses the line.
they are truly genius, the game addiction is a very bad plague nowadays. Thanks to vanguard, many of us would be able to stop this addiction. Thank you rito
@@rosegold-beats nah bro ppl just don’t want that malware on their system to a vulnerable company ran by tencent, it’s really just that simple you would be surprised looking at the player count going into s14
Im most centantly stop playing league. Vanguard dont allow me to play Valorant. I it freezes my cursor and I have to reboot until it stops doing it lol
For me it's less about that (even though its a concern plenty of other stuff already does that) and the fact that it is a very real risk that riot is hacked and now they have access to all of our devices It's literal spyware with the potential to inject malware
This is what I love about gaming on Linux -- if something cannot be run on linux it often means you're better off not having it running on your computer anyway. Not too thrilled about installing a trojan just to play a game.
guess what, to leave a comment on yt you must make a Google account. Why do you think that ads pop up about whatever you were talking about? (It's because Google uses your information already, including your microphone, even when you don't give access.) Man I wish that in order to use the internet you need to take a class or something, because yall dumb as rocks
Any reasonable person will see this is a ticking time bomb. Has Riot been hacked before? Yes. Has a kernel level anti-cheat do shady stuff in the background happend before? Yes. Is riot connected to a shady entity? Yes.
@@ryu_lidu This is the sole reason why i wont be getting it when it comes out. If it would only run when i play the game fuck it. But 24 7 what kind of ccp bullshit is this???? This is just pure lazyness and incompetence on riots part and they came out with the " trust me bro" excuse during the dev video.....
Even funnier is that, while this affects the custom skin community, Linux community and carries all the risks you mentioned, the most dedicated cheaters, who climbed to high elo cheating - will keep cheating. There are undetected Valorant cheats out there, there will be undetected League scripts. It's a pain how I can't use custom skins on League or play the game on my old laptop running Ubuntu anymore for this.
@@papercottonThere's a difference between 32 bits and this. Only really old machines were 32 bits only and supporting it is legitimately a nightmare considering the client is barely functioning.
i already have to play league in mega low, cant reduce effects under medium bcs else it freezes and crashes, and have to enable some very specific things so that i have more than 10 fps... i'll never install vinguard and just stop league if they dont cancel it, sad
Idk man I don't wanna sound like a politician but I think this is a time for all of us to come together and raise our voice against this. It's gonna ruin everyone's experience quite a bit and i don't wanna sit back and say it is what it is. When the Vanguard drops let's all just take a break from league for a week and see if Riot changes their mind about this.
Welp for example I will delete league, valorant and anny another riot game from my main pc the moment I come back home, I just hope I have two weeks of time, essentialy riot thinks only their games exist, their virus running full time on my pc is going to affect my already strugling performance just so a single game I place from time to time can run, yea needles to say riot is diging its grave, as my friends already also decided on the same thing, meaning riot just now lost 10-30 players As essentialy every person in the camp sonetimes plays league, and curently essentialy everyone decided the game ends up in trash... Yea gl for those few that are left I gues
They only mentioned privacy issues in their video. What I am more worried about are possible security issues. Hacking into Vanguard might give somebody full control over your computer, which would not be ideal.
This, remember that Vanguard starts as soon as you boot up your system. Sure there are plenty of anti-cheats that are kernel level as well, but pretty much all of them start when you play the game. When Dark Souls 1-3 had a massive exploit where simply being online could give hackers control of your computer and Fromsoft didn't disable the multiplayer yet (it has been fixed and re-enabled), guess what I did? I simply didn't play Dark Souls 1-3 lol. Tough luck if something like this happens to Vanguard. Riot isn't impenetrable, and Vanguard already doesn't have the best reputation so I don't have a lot of faith and trust in it.
Additionally Vanguard is on *a lot* of machines (and is going to be on more), so that gives more incentive for people to try to find a vulnerability in it, possible vulnerability could be catastrophic, I hope that their proprietary tech is really well funded and tested by many independent security experts..
Hacking into league or any other program would let someone steal all your personal information, passwords, install malware etc. so I don't really see how the threat level escalates here for the average league user that doesn't have a valuable network of confidential information or hardware to compromise. Yeah they have a better chance of bricking your device but they can already do that through multiple drivers or other anti cheat drivers on your PC and it doesn't seem to actually happen very often.
then you'd be worrying about this for years already because EasyAntiCheat and BattleEye are both kernel level anticheats. and they have been for years. and most online games use them.
Riot always follows a "green arrow" mantra. A guy draws green arrows all over his town, someone asks "Why are you drawing green arrows?", and the guy replies "To keep the pink elephants out, and it works!". Their town is in Norway.
As a Linux user, this is really, really sad. I have played over 10 thousand games over the last 10+ years and I have never, not even once, had a game-ruining experience related to cheating. I'm sure there's a lot of people who have had issues with cheaters, but I'm also pretty sure that many people share my experience (or, at least, haven't come across that many cheaters I don't really understand the need of a kernel level anti-cheat software, but oh well. Riot knows best I guess. Goodbye League.
uh if you never had a game-ruining experience related to cheating you are extremely lucky, also almost every modern anti cheat runs in kernel nowdays, because the cheats itself run in kernel.
I'm a lame gold player and faced a cheater this year. A kind of obvious one. My friend was playing in his silver acc and he also faced another cheater. His main acc is master GM and has been facing cheaters a lot, specially arund march april of the last year. We desperately needs anti cheats engine.
Very questionable choice. Announcing that you're putting in a kernel level anti-cheat in response to your own data breach, is like a doctor telling you he has better malpractice insurance after being sued for it multiple times. It does not inspire a lot of confidence.
That's exactly what I was thinking and I'm so frustrated that no one is mentioning it. Riot basically said "We got hacked last year so now we add Kernel level anti cheat so that if hackers find a vulnerability again they have kernel access to our users pcs".
Vanguard running 24/7 is what really grinds the gears for most security concerns. Anti-cheat these days is mandatory, so is running it at Kernel-level because obviously why would hack creators not do that if it gives them the advantage. But the combination of a 24/7 rootkit owned by a Chinese company **THESE DAYS** is just way too heavy.
This is just another episode of the cat and mouse game. After awhile we will start getting 24/7 on boot hacks to go up against the 24/7 on boot anti cheats.
U do realize that for your data to be stolen it would take only a couple of minutes for it to run. It running 24/7 doesn't mean anything. It's not like there would be a human parsing through data so it would be necessary for it to run 24/7. If it turned out Riot ever stole your personal data for whatever reason their company would be sued to oblivion and they would go bankrupt. Do u really believe that is the case?
@@WasabiCannonNot after a while, if I'm not mistaken there were bans in Valorant during beta for cheating. Cheaters are already using hardware and kernel level cheats.
Vanguard is why I stopped playing Valorant. It would stop my game development tools from working for an indie game I was making. Took me like 2 days to finally realize an anticheat software I DIDN'T KNOW WAS ON made the executive decision to subtly break my game dev tools
It is a pitty that politicians are dinosaurs that consider banning tiktok but not a kernel level software designed to run 24/7 on millions of computers
Nah they said "Trust me bro" so 100000% no chance they doing it even though Tencent works hand-in-hand with the Chinese government and is obligated by their laws to provide any and every information the CCP requests.
Yea but riot is owned by tencent still it's headquarters are in the US so I think if they do some shady stuff or else the US would already be saying hello at their front door.
My primary concern is simply the fact the anti-cheat software is running 24/7; even while the game is not open. Give the player base ONE legitimate reason that is necessary. It's not necessary; it's lazy/cheap moderating. > This "Always On" feature is a necessary layer for the evolving cheaters we as a community face. W H Y ? Is it not enough that I grant Tencent (parent company of RIOT) Kernel-level access to my desktop while I play the game?
for certain cheats, having the anti cheat on before the cheater can start their cheat software is essential, thats why 24/7 is required, if they were really out to spy your pc, they wouldnt let u close vanguard this easily.
and its funny because cheaters STILL exist on valorant, but fanboys will still defend riot games, thinking this is a step foward. And btw, companies lie, specially when it comes about personal information
It does turn off if you turned it off. Of course, you're gonna have to restart the PC if you wanna open LoL/Valo. Whether you want your privacy or your convenience... your choice. Do remember that Windows themselves is always extracting data, not to mention other games.
The key thing is that some cheats can be loaded before the operating system loads, which can then trick the operating system into thinking everything is normal, making them impossible to detect. These are kernel level cheats. Vanguard is a kernel level anti cheat, which loads at the same time/before the cheats are, making it possible to notice them. It is worth mentioning that if a security flaw in vanguard exists, then it would be possible for a bad actor to gain access to the PC at the kernel level, which would provide the potential for total control. Vanguard is a double edged sword that when handled well would outperform traditional anti-cheat but poorly could be more dangerous then useful.
All the sheep will actually answer your question.... The REAL reason is for Tencent to farm your data. Tencent is only as big as it is due to the Chinese government helping them with their funds for exchange for data. Why else would they make large investments in the western gaming market instead of their own? I mean Tencent has already found themselves in some controversy regarding data.. Goodbye riot your greed has been growing nonstop
Things have gone a long way since I had to download a ported version of league by Boompje to play on a Mac. And it broke every patch intentionally by riot.
Mac collects even more data than windows does, now I can not assure you that, but that's what people in hack community says. To be fair I do not think data collection should be one of your problems when you install Vanguard.
Hardware bans are not really effective considering you can spoof hardware id's pretty easily. But it will make people that don't know how to do that, stay banned if they get caught.
@@Vandiril With one of the most invasive anti-cheat methods ever. Yeah.... congrats we got all the "casual" cheaters at the small expense of Tencent having access to all of our hardware.
Tencent has 11,000+ CCP members on the staff. So in essence you are trusting the CCP with a rootkit. Totally not sus at all with WW3 right around the corner and CCP wanting to push their rootkit to hundreds of millions of PCs around the world.. Totally not for a cyber attack right?
It's also good to mention that any kernel level software running on your PC could(most likely it does) have security bugs in them and it could be exploited (and has been in past) to take over the system.
Yup :(. Gonna have to trust RIOT on this one. I, for one, don’t have a lot of trust in them. That being said I like League so that outweighs my lack of trust. Everyone is different though so it’s up to them personally to make the decision to trust and keep playing, or, rightfully, be untrusting of RIOT and their Vanguard software and quit playing their games.
This is bullshit and scripter propaganda. Any user mode software can be exploited and it can be just as damaging as kernel level exploit. Also Valorant has been out for years now and I don't remember this "most likely" security bugs lmao.
@@outsomnia Any software can be exploited - sadly yes. Just as damaging as kernel level exploit - no way, stop lying. If you run application with limited permissions and somebody exploits it to run arbitrary code, the code is going to inherit the app permissions. Apple has been around for years and look what came up recently: CVE-2023-32434. Kernel level arbitrary code execution, which required 0 user interaction.
Key difference between Vanguard and other kernel-level anti-cheats: Vanguard runs from boot-time, other kernel-level anti-cheats like EAC and BattlEye only run when the game opens. For reference, the only 24/7 kernel-level software is: your USB driver, your audio driver, and your graphics driver (software you need to be able to interact with your system). Regardless, I fully believe Vanguard will stop way more legit players from playing than cheaters, which is such a shame.
@@Scarlet_moon.Valorant was introduced alongside Vanguard. This is implementing it onto THE LARGEST PLAYERBASE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. I mean Linux players alone probably trumps the number of cheaters this thing is going to stop, plus people on older hardware or Windows prior to 10, people who cannot use Secure Boot for any reason such as dual booting another operating system, people who are using Microsoft Hyper-V, people using disability software (myself included) I mean the list goes on and on.
@@pwbandwidth league players that play on Linux are not even 0.1% you overestimate how much this could impact player base. Riot probably did the math based on their player base as they already have all that based on downloads,i assume they are more than willing to cut small percentage of users to implement this,you are all acting like they didn't do their calculations. And for people that are using older windows,i got one message, its 2024 windows 7 will soon turn 15. Only valid concern you have is for people using disability software,but for that you will need to ask Riot.
@@GnegonGalek your phone and browser already tracks every single thing you do,companies know all they need about you,not really sure why you think that vanguard is a problem when you have probably installed similar programs on your pc without ever even realizing it,at least they had decency to warn you few months upfront. Only thing i am shocked about is that it took them so long to add it to league,but i guess they wanted to make sure it wont cause problems so they used Valorant as testing ground. I doubt they will lose more than 2% of player base with this move as most people wont care,hence my comment.
It’s especially painful for the guys who made map skins (which btw all look really great on a level Riot could do and should have already years ago…) but hey maybe with vanguard they at least finally make official skins for SR
It's truly upsetting that a very valued member of the community like Skinspotlights may possibly have to stop all because of Vanguard. That youtube channel has been an amazing source for players since the earliest seasons of the game. Not to mention the countless content creators that rely on custom skins for content or otherwise. I'm also very wary of data being openly sent freely at any time for any reason without my consent. I think privacy for one's data is something that a lot of players do not consider or even think about unfortunately.
I think that digital privacy will be on of those future things that future generations will laugh on, just like we "laugh" knowing that in the past people could smoke in buildings or Big Pharma could sell cocaine to children.
Tbf skin spotlight shouldn't even exist. The fact riot let him leech revenue this long is astounding. In Heroes of the storm I don't need to watch RU-vid videos to look at skins. You can play and practice any skin for free in tutorial. Even for characters you don't own. League is just years behind on basic features.
The main concern is that vanguard is not only a kernel level anti-cheat, it is a rootkit, most anti-cheats are not rootkits, if someone hacks riot again and injects malware in it MILIONS of people will be pwnd
I did not even know that it was a rootkit! 😲 Then again, I do not really care, I do not play nor WANT to play any more. The 8 years I played was enough. I am also using linux so I guess I would not even have a choice if I WANTED to. xD
@@Gamer9o You don't need that to figure out smurfs, lmao. Did you miss the whole "you have a gift of coal from Valve this xmas" story? Because Id:ing a computer today is sooo hard. lmao. Only way to figure out smurs is by analyzing data (to make sure it is not multiple players) AND comparing hw:id. Nothing to do with access level at all.
One small addition: Tencent isn't just a chinese company, it is THE chinese company. It is known to have close ties with the government and gets special benefits from them by sending them userdata. I don't think it is that big of a deal regarding vanguard but it might be interesting for some.
I am always confused why Tencent and the chinese government would be the problem regarding data when US FISA law rules all US companies to hand over data to the NSA if they so wish; Riot Games Inc. is a US company regardless of which investor backs them
There's a huge problem with kernel level software : you cannot monitor what it does. Usually if you suspect there's a malware on your PC, you check the processes to find a suspicious one, or check open ports to see if one of them shouldn't be open. The kernel defines what processes even are, so it can run outside of any process, and whenever a process requests an Internet connection using a port, the kernel decides whether or not to allow it based on whether or not the port is open, and depending on your security configuration you might have connection logs too (handled by the kernel). So essentially, malware running in kernel level has the same privileges as the kernel, it may not be detected because it runs outside of any process, can decide to connect to the Internet using a port that's not even open, and decide not to write any logs about it, making it a 100% stealthy malware.
Not exactly 100% cause you can definitely extract data from what it sends, the pc itself won't log it but the physical data is still going out so if there's any middle hardware that can check that you can get your logs It's still super stealthy and annoying tho
True. All this does if force cheat maker to use kernel level cheating software as well. This only hurts the vast majority of people getting caught in the crossfire.
@@ryu_lidu Riot encrypts the data, so no, you cannot see what they're extracting from your pc. Only Riot, Tencent and the CCP will know. Oh, and also every company that has dealings with China.
@@Numb_ everyone: *bots in game* omg my adc is a bot, wtf rito pls fix Rito: here's a fix but it runs on kernel everyone: no why fix it botters are just gonna run on kernel now wtf rito like bro wtf you want people to do when you put them in a lose lose situation, it is so idiotic.
I'm not as worried about vanguard itself, but moreso the potential "holes" in the coding that could be exploited by people creating malware to gain kernel access. Yeah it's not easy to do, but if it does happen that'd be more worrying imo
League was one of the few competitive games i could play because due to the nature of my work, i cant have kernel level programs on personal devices at all. Now i cant, nearly a decade of skins/play will be gone now sadly. I wasnt high rank i mostly played for fun but i guess this is healthier since the game was getting super toxic.
@@oxey_as a technically govt employed worker for a school district, even personal devices are bound by the rules. For example i cant have tik tok on my personal phone either.
@@saitamaro6969 What, that's not at all relevant though, that doesn't mean anything?? It has nothing to do with your league account, it's about access to your PC hardware.
@@Michael.Gunner he is right, as stated in the video if your pc gets hacked throught Vanguard the hacker will have access to your GPU, RAM, Storage and use it unless it gets detected.
@@anaxagoras9812 I am genuinely interested in whats gonna happen if Vanguard actually has a vulnerability that's leaked through a hack. Cuz im pretty sure that one could alter the program in such a way that would make it possible to achieve such things.
I'm a software engineer. Kernel level anticheats only stop so much. All it will do, is increase the prices of cheats because vanguard is still bypassable, extremely easily. It's not like you're reversing denuvo. Vanguard is terrible. You can get banned for doing absolutely nothing but development work. Some applications, like debuggers, will trigger it without the game even running.
Valorant have about 8+ private cheats, even for now. Vanguard can't help with this. But it can trigger some bluescreens in video editing programs or visual code/microsoft visual studio + Tencent is 100% CCP controlled company.
Yepp. Even running your own containers or VM's may cause a ban. If you do any IT related work on your PC its very likely that vanguard will either lead to you ban in league or it will mess up you OS
League would rather add more moving parts that will break or have a breach or privacy via site hack. However Riot would still rather do this and issue a cease and desist to the guy who offered to optimize client interface and debug fatal errors. Can't wait for everyones credit card info to get leaked and we all get chat restricted for a month and set back to honor level 0.
One point not even mentioned in the video is the usement of PC ressources. I don't have personal experience with Vanguard (since im on Mac its not even possible), but what i've heard is that it can be really demanding especially for weaker PCs. League isn't ofc a really difficult game to run, and even average PCs easily manage 120 FPS in that game. But for weaker PCs Vanguard could be a real deal breaker, especially since its more likely that weaker PCs can't even run Windows 11 too - which in long term will be the only supported Windows, since Support for Windows 10 will end in 2025. One reason why LoL was so popular is because literally every toaster could run it. But it seems those days are over.
This is my big concern. Accessibility was a key reason why league was so popular initially, and this will push so many people out that the playerbase might actually risk collapse
Old pc here, it barely runs with a few fps drops as it is. I used to run it on a worse laptop back in season 2-3 and it ran great. I'll get a few weeks of new season and then its joever.
This is very true. Pretty sad imo. I started playing league on a toaster and it wasn’t until a few years ago I was able to afford an upgrade. Many people are not so fortunate and I really, really hope that they can still play even with vanguard running. The reality is that we’ll have to see and it probably will affect performance. Again, very sad :(
making something like this open source would only further increase the chances of someone exploiting vanguard. I love custom skins as much as the next guy but if they made it open source cheaters would be everywhere and data leaks, hijackings, and random bans could all be exploited.
@@terrytuna9392stop spreading misinformation. Bitwarden is one of the most secure password managers and fully opensource. Security by obfuscation was never true and won't be ever.
Making an anticheat software open source will kill the anticheat software. It will be bypassed instantly. The reason why Battleye and EAC bypasses exist is because anyone can pay Battleye and EAC a couple thousand dollars for a copy of the source code to "use in their own game." Riot having a proprietary, and more importantly, *private* anticheat is the only way to prevent bypasses.
Its the worst idea i hear in years, the problem of League of Legends isnt the cheaters that is 1 in 100 games. The real problem are the trolls, wintrading and the toxicity
thats because you are low elo and dont even play against scripters. In my case ive been playing at high elo +7years from now and it is becoming more and more common to face scripters (Brazil server).
This actually will help with that too. These people are usually purchasing accounts which are mass created using bots. Vanguard will support detecting bots, thus less accounts available to purchase. Supply and Demand states that the available accounts will become more expensive, thus making less people willing to purchase them
My guess is that the current anti-cheat tries to detect sus behavior and then flag players, and for that they need data on how players/scripters behave so the anti-cheat can be improved. With the new anti-cheat, there isn't that much need for data as instead of analyzing gameplay, what gets analyzed is what programs are interacting with League, what reads the memory of the game. That's the main benefit of running kernel level anti-cheat.
@@treeaboo Was wondering why the old, worse one collects and analyzes data, but the new better one doesn't need to. Was under the impression that the general information they collect should have helped the anti cheat work, but mizu already gave an explanation that seems plausible enough. Still ain't letting that on my pc tho.
@kitnal4143 Almost all games worth its name have kernel level anti-cheat, yes. But I don't know a single other game that runs 24/7 on your computer. This is basically a root-kit. Not having this running on a computer where I do my professional work.
I think it is for the best, you can tell if sombody is using aimbot in game but seeing cheats or bots in lol is much harder to notice. So it is way better than relaying on reporting players.
It is pretty sad that Riot does not go into further detail on all the problems that come with Vanguard in their Season 14 Video. They know people would not like it.
I refused to play valorant because of it. Now finally i no longer have that itch of addiction to play one more game of league as it will come with chinese spyware.
i like that if every league player decided to not pay or play league for a month in protest, suddenly vanguard wouldn't be absolutely necessary anymore lmao
I 100% trust a company the is so honorable that ended up paying 100m to settle a discrimination lawsuit to treat my pc and my data with loads of respect and care as Riot is clearly a company that deffo encourages their employees to have good moral character while at work. (:
hey guess what, to leave a comment on yt you must make a Google account. Why do you think that ads pop up about whatever you were talking about? (It's because Google uses your information already, including your microphone, even when you don't give access.) Man I wish that in order to use the internet you need to take a class or something, because yall dumb as rocks
The main problem with the anti-cheat running 24-7 is that if say a hacker discovers a security flaw in it, that could immediately impact MILLIONS of people and allow for unfathomable damage. It is an INSANE security risk, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if certain government agencies would ban their agents/employees from downloading league on even their personal devices, and I personally will not be playing it anymore unless I get a PC I specifically dedicate to the game, which is not happening. Truly a sad day for the league community.
This happened already with Genshin’s kernel level anticheat. It was used as a back door to install ransomware. The difference is that Genshin’s anticheat doesn’t run 24/7, only when the game is running. This means that Vanguard will be even more dangerous.
@@titelitury9396you would need another computer to be compeletly safe, or for your data you would have to disconnect personal drives when vanguard is running. this is the main issue, is youtube spying on me? sure, but I don't use it for irl things, same for other companies. I manage to keep irl and online lifes separate but when you get 24/7 anti-cheat the whole thing goes out the window. and buying a separate computer just to avoid anti cheat is way too annoying and unnecessary for me and many others.
@@Daktyl198 Not saying that it's not a risk, but Riot has a bug bounty out for Vanguard since release. If you manage to crack it, you can send them the flaw and get paid. So far no one has claimed that money. Honestly, they might aswell increase the bounty to actually entice people to not abuse a flaw but cash in the easier and safer way. Might help people feel more secure. Nothing is unbreakable, but it does give a sense of security. Valorant and thus Vanguard has been out a few months longer than Genshin too. Genshin also using an own anti-cheat is probably what caused the issue. Any more established anti-cheat software hasn't had any issues with back doors.
But if I'm not wrong they didn't hacked a PC with Genshon Impact (and its AC), but rather they made the victim to download the AC (since it's a rootkit) and used it to infect the PC. This of course demonstrates the dangerousness of the AC, but it is a little bit different. (I'm not defending Vanguard, I in fact too think that it's too dangerous).
Cheating is not really a problem for league and I really doubt this will stop leveling bots. Solve griefing, soft inting and wintrading. I feel like this does nothing for us, only takes away.
The problem with having an anti-cheat running 24-7 is that you could be doing modding or something similar for another game and get flagged and banned for it even tho you didn't actually cheat. My friend had that happen with destiny 2 and got his account banned for 2 YEARS. It also will most likely flag people modding league skins and maps.
that and a lot of us like, do other things on our machines? I might be playing league and have several random tabs open and whatever other programs I'm working on going, needing to be saved. do we just accept now that when we play league of legends, we are risking having our machine crash and losing our data? that's just part of playing league now? it's insane.
There's tons of stuff on your PC that has more rights than even the user admin account. That's not defending Vanguard, but this comment is so uninformed...
@@Ruhrpottpatriot when ppl said this is not safe their response is trust guys trust this is fkcing sus and when it's RIOT GAMES who did it on RIOT CLIENT this is all but not safe
@@Ruhrpottpatriot And most of them are essential things like drivers. Not an anti cheat system. Not even EAC or Battleeye runs at system boot. Vanguard has as much privileges as your display or chipset driver which is absolutely wrong.
@@Katalina_baketsu At some point you have to trust another party. You have to trust Intel/AMD that their CPUs don't have backdoors (Spectre and Meltdown) or hidden features (around 20% of the available CPU commands are not documented and "hidden"). You have to trust a Certificate Authority that they don't validate malicious actors (Online-Banking). You have to trust your crypto library that it handles requests and responses correctly (Heartbleed). You have to trust your OS that it doesn't send private data (Win 11). Log4j's security vulnerability (CVE-2021-44228) showed, that even a "simple" logging library can be used for privilege escalation and malware distribution. And those are only a few of the computer related trust scenario's. You trust your Car's manufacturer, you trust your airplane's manufacturer and operator, and so on... Fact is: People complain about Vanguard and say they don't trust it, when the very same people trust a whole slew of different actors where a misuse of said trust is far wider reaching. Oh, and the same people buy LITERAL spyware from Amazon, Google and Apple so they can control their fancy RGB rainbow barf. The very same people buy webcams and other IoT devices for 10 bucks from china, which have been proven to be used in malicious botnets against hospitals, government agencies and everything else.
@@riven4121 Windows doesn't just let you run arbitrary stuff in Kernelland. We're far away from the Realmode DOS days. One point of Secureboot (which Vanguard requires) and TPM's is to make things like Virtualization-based Security (VBS) and Memory Ingegrity/hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI), even possible. These two concepts _assume_ that the Kernel can be compromised and check each piece of code **before** it's executed for a signature and block it if the signature doesn't match. And even if it passes the validation the code is only run inside a separate isolated virtual environment. To quote Microsoft: "Kernel mode code integrity is the Windows process that checks all kernel mode drivers and binaries before they're started, and prevents unsigned or untrusted drivers or system files from being loaded into system memory. Memory integrity also restricts kernel memory allocations that could be used to compromise the system, ensuring that kernel memory pages are only made executable after passing code integrity checks inside the secure runtime environment, and executable pages themselves are never writable. That way, even if there are vulnerabilities like a buffer overflow that allow malware to attempt to modify memory, executable code pages cannot be modified, and modified memory cannot be made executable." If you look at 7:30 in this video, you see Secureboot, IOMMUs and HVCI/VBS in the flowchart and EVERYTHING needs to be enabled for Vanguard to work. Is this fail-proof? No of course not. Nobody ever claimed that, but it greatly reduces the attack surface and possible impact. The average user is **far** more likely to get malware by clicking on a link in an email or visiting a malicious site on the web than by a malicious actor exploiting Vanguard. League is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too insignificant for a widespread attack and exploiting it requires far too many resources, when stuff like 10USD IoT devices or Office exists.
So If someone, let's say If someone able to take over Vanguard, isn't that just expose a massive community of vulnerable computers that that person will have complete control over?
Pretty much, not just complete control but they could probably be completely stealthy whilst doing so, even if you're a cybersecurity professional it could be made almost impossible to detect. Also, it's not just that it's kernel level, it's also that it must be open 24/7
I legit have this Vanguard bullshit haunt my dreams. Riot got hacked last year and I can't imagine if they got hacked *WHILE HAVING THIS* type of access available to them of their players' PCs. This is far beyond paranoia, but actual worry that should be shared between everyone and a concern that should be addressed!
Basically same. I don't think Riot means ill at all with their bid for kernel access but if they ever have a security issue, then someone at riot is probably going to have to do some explaining to various governments around the world.
@@Gouretoratto Worse is that we don't even know how it'll affect the rest of your apps as a single glitch could fucking BRICK your PC because "it deemed it so". It's Ai-based so it's not really PEOPLE who are in control of it and I DOUBT RIOT would say "whoops, our back, let us fix your PC." if something like that happened. And as you said, this feels extremely legal to have it *REQUIRED TO RUN AT ALL TIMES* compared to the other ones, which makes sense that it should run *ONLY* when the game is on.
have you considered that there is a chance of your goverment being hacked. probably way easier for hackers and much more information of you leaked. in other words, i have gone beyond paranoia and just accepted shit can and will happen
@@4547466 Valorant isn't/wasn't as popular as something like League. Nobody would've cared to even try that. League is one of the most popular games in the world. You realize that, right?
There are people who defend vanguard being added and claim that people who don't want it have something to hide. Yet none of them mention how it makes the game only playable on one OS, how it kills custom skins and map skins, or how it can get you banned in other games.
Also the "Do you have something to hide?" Bullshit that comes up whenever something like this is discussed is so half-baked. No I'm not doing any illegal shit but that doesn't mean any of my private data is anyone's concern.
Nothing new, to be honest. Every time people have some issue these types come out in droves! I personally won't play LoL any longer once this change gets implemented since I like my Linux and despise Windows (though I do use it as a VM to avoid having to work through Wine just to play games), but I've been thinking about quitting anyway since the horrid changes to matchmaking they did in September. I've been playing just a couple of ARAMs a week recently and even that was not as much fun - compared to other games. But whatever - let Riot keep shooting themselves in their feet (and hands, if so they wish), the more time I'll have for PoE.
People may not be interested in custom skins, may only use windows, and may care more about not seeing cheaters than worry about the 40th security breach they have in their PCs. It seems no ome can't be pleased, either you complain about cheaters or cry about possible problems.
Same. I didn't buy Borderlands 3 for that reason. I think Borderlands 2 also had Denuvo, but I bought it almost 7 years after its release, and Denuvo had been removed by then.
Almost everyone I know that I told about this had no idea what I'm talking about.They had no idea what Vanguard is, what it means, what's the *potential* risks, that it's being forced on League, nothing. Riot/Tencent are relying on the fact that most people are not tech savy at all, and many people don't really care anyways (Look at the amount of people that are willing to download and use softwares like TikTok even on sensitive devices), and once this goes live you'll receive a small popup that requires you to install Vanguard to continue playing, with Terms of Services nobody is going to read. The fact that not only is the game owned 100% by Tencent, a Company pretty much controlled by the Chinese goverment, but that Riot themselves got hacked last year, makes this entire ordeal even more crazy. What if they get breached again (Or even have already a backdoor in their servers) but now they have access to millions of computers from League Players. This is a literal Rootkit. Insanity.
I don't want to leave League, but I will take a break when this launches. I want to watch the dumpster fire from a distance instead of being in it myself, and if it isn't as bad as people claim then I'll continue playing. If it is as bad as expected, it's sad because I was very much looking forward to all of the positive changes coming in Season 14.
hey guess what, to leave a comment on yt you must make a Google account. Why do you think that ads pop up about whatever you were talking about? (It's because Google uses your information already, including your microphone, even when you don't give access.) Man I wish that in order to use the internet you need to take a class or something, because yall dumb as rocks
Same! Screw them... Only supporting companies that show me they care about my privacy. Too many people/corps are acting like criminals legally. I'm taking a break and I hope a better League clone pops up that protects its players
They can already extract 100% of your data with their user mode software if they wanted to, they don't need ring0 for that. the moment you run any executable file on your pc, it can literally take anything it wants from PC without your permission so if you're that paranoid you might as well never run any program and game on your PC because it might steal your precious wallpapers.
@@outsomnia No? You can lock everything behind admin privileges which games usually don't need to run. Or make it encrypted, run those apps/games in isolated environment so they can't access anything outside their installation folder
@@petrjara7559 so you're telling me that you're such a schizo that you run trusted video games on a separate environment? 99.999% of the people don't do that and the ones who do are pdf files or schizos. so which one are you.
This is worrying for me because of performance issues, Vanguard being always on has caused me many problems in the past (when I tried playing Valo), random bluescreens, blocking random programs and other games running poorly
True true, and I hate saying this because league was originally made to work with all PC’s, but if you look at the majority of online discourse you will not find very many people with this issue. I implore you to do some research and maybe it’s a setting or there’s some type of workaround to not have that happen to you. Or maybe it’s not worth the hassle to play league idk. I’m just saying for most people this will not affect their game or performance in a noticeable way. Notice I did not say “affect their game at all”. I think for my PC I do lose a couple fps, but for getting ride of MOST cheaters a couple fps is a small price to pay.
Vanguard is the reason why my friend's computer started having lot of problems and he now needs to change his computer because it fucked up his computer. Honestly, from what i've heard, i think Vanguard will cause more problems that it will solve and i'll have to give up on a game i enjoy :/
Then just wait some time, read news and social media and see how many people have bad experiences with Vanguard. It could have been that your friend was simply very unlucky and that one guy in a thousand or a million who had problems.
@@lubue5795i feel like most of the people that blame Vanguard had problems that only coincided with them installing it. Who's to say that it was actually Vanguard that did it if it was a problem brewing from miles away? I'm not defending Vanguard or saying that they're blameless for everything, but it seems kinda' unfair to just blame everything on it. It's just like Windows updates; people love to pile on Windows update when something on their computer goes wrong but more often than not Windows update is actually blameless and it was the user's fault that something had happened.
@@lubue5795 Except he wasn't that one guy in a thousand. Loads of people had problems with Vanguard. The "My entire High End Gaming PC got bricked" kind of problem. When Vanguard released, there were loads of Videos and People telling others what a dangerous heap of shit Vanguard was.
How can they not know this will significantly affect their player base This isnt just a dumb change where people type"yeah i quit", people will actually quit for multitude of reasons wether they want it or not
FYI it’s important to say “kernel level” and not just “kernel”. Kernel is the program at the core of your operating system that schedules processes, manages memory, etc. Kernel level is a program that runs with the same permissions as the kernel such as a driver.
we had it hard enough on linux with multiple gamebreaking updates this year :( I read a comment from a rioter that said they played from linux when the last outage was going on so I have some hope the internal dev team can cook up some sort of solution but most likely we're screwed
Played league since Season 1, burned a lot of money, had a ton of fun and lots of good memories in this game. But with this so called "Anti-Cheat" Software... I will not play this game any longer if they really do this. And I think many people, who know what kind of Software this is, will also stop playing. Sad to see one of my daily routine go...
The thing that makes me sad is that vanguard is not infallible by any means cheat developers will still be able to get around it. I feel all this accomplishes at the end of the day is to further strip away the privacy and security of the average user. Its is honestly sickening to me that companies seem to think forcing us to download a root kit to play their video game ok :(
for a cheat developer to bypass Vanguard, they would need to make their own kernel cheats that run before Vanguard does, good luck and good luck getting anyone to download that shit thinking they will trust your kernel level program.
You didn't mention my biggest problem with Vanguard. It runs pre-bios. This is the reason you need to re-start for it to "work"(it is still open even when you close but it would crash your pc if you actually close so stays inactive instead of closed). Running pre-bios means it can change your bios settings(the same way a firmware update would) or install software in places you can only check with a lot of technical knowledge. Even formatting wouldn't uninstall since formatting only work in OS lvl witch happens after the BIOS. After vanguard came out I will only be playing league in a MAC VM if I can't do that I will quit league 100% and sue riot to get my money back(since I won't be able to play anymore anyway). I spent around 8000$ and have around 20000+ games in the last 12 years playing league. I am from Brazil and we have laws that prevent this kind of stuff here and even permabans need their money back in case of non-violation of rules from THE FIRST contract you signed when you created an account.
As someone who works in game development, this is for sure the last straw for me with Riot. I can't afford to have my work PC bricked by some random chinese spyware...
welcome to my world, even so for me its "just" my private pc i really dont want them snooping in my files / code + my system would be considered unsave aswell i like the game a lot but i will not have some chinese spyware running
Oh please Like google doesnt know all of your shit alrdy. Literally no difference. I understand and respect your opinion tho. I just think it really doesnt matter
@@KappaChiino Valorant is a newer game with a newer engine and more educated coders, League is a Frankenstein's monster of a game amalgamated from 15 years of different coders and programmers Hell just look at Arena, does Valorant see those level of bugs? no, This is not going to be a smooth implementation by ANY means
it annoys me people compare those kernal levels with vanguard as those can run in a virtual machine and vanguard refuses to run in a virtual machine and thats all you need to know about its trustworthyness.
What sucks is i've played League since beta, I even still have my box copy of the game, and I switched to linux full time in 2013. Sad that multiple hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours will have been wasted as I refuse to switch back to windows. I tried to use windows 1 year ago and I would constantly stutter and get very low fps in all games. Even using proton on Arch I'm getting around 60% more performance than on windows.
The problem with Riot's anti cheat is that it is so inefficient. It sometimes spikes in the resources it eats it might as well be the game that I am playing. Especially that League is a popular game part to its accessibility and easy to run (apart from bugs!), we might see a small decline in players
Not so small considering that most players are playing on potato hardware that doesn't support TPM 2.0 (which is required to install the anti cheat). I believe at least minimum 30 to 40% of the player base will leave the game in favour of something else.
i will if i dont find a way to find a vanguard repo in order to make it work on my good old win7 (and yes u can make lol think it runs on win10 at least for now)
@@habichnicht8845wait , your league is working alright? On my non-potato win7pro pc league just randomly decide to pass away It can't launch a game after champion select , the process replying for this just froze for no reason
@@SolaceV9 well the majority if not all of eune is gonna be dead cause everyone uses potato pc so one server is gonna die not even mentioning asian server with tons of potato pc too so its possible for 30 to 45% players to stop
Syncronous Audio Router (the best and most low latency way to redirect DAW audio streams into another application) needs Secure Boot Off, which is needed for vanguard to run. So you wont be able to have an affordable way to post-process audio while gaming
I was one of the many people who had hardware problems with Vanguard back when Valorant released, it turned off my laptop fans and it smelled like it was burning, which never happened in any other game prior or after this episode. Luckly no damage happened, but I definetely learned my lesson, this time I will give a good 2-3 months after the implementation to see how it goes, IF I ever come back, Riot is definitely not secure enough to trust them with kernel level permissions
I honestly think it might be fine for vanguard to have those permissions, maybe minus a couple tho, if they were to make it only run fully when you actually open an app like with Easy Anti-Cheat. Other than that i agree with you
@@ClayyMor Kernel level access means it's always there with a kernel level signed driver on your system. If you have vanguard on your system then the kernel driver is running. It will still be bypassed because people will just run Vanguard + League in a VM and cheat from outside the VM.
@@charactername263That doesnt work. Vanguard sees you interacting with the VM and if you try to implement hidden access it will flag that on boot. Like, we know this shit works from valorant you cant avoid it with tricks like this
@@charactername263 Vanguard is quite good at detecting hypervisors and preventing itself, and thus the game, from running. I tried several times to run Valorant under a VM and never managed to.
@@charactername263Correct me if im wrong, but i did read that vanguard somehow doesnt work on VMs. Makes no sense to me but pls lmk if you know about that
