why riot's new anti-cheat is a HUGE problem. 

If the game installed a kernel driver, and it can activate it at any point, then so can a pice of malware. I don't really see the improvement provided by not running constantly.

You could terminate it, though you wont be allowed to play at all until you reboot. And thats the shady and disgusting part, that they've made it so "difficult" so that the normal playerbase would have it constantly running in the background without their knowledge at all.

YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP

Yeah if you disable it you have to restart your PC before you can play again because it *must* ensure that it runs before all other software, including other kernel drivers, so that the software can be sure that it cannot be tampered with. It has its advantages of course but it is a scary prospect when you consider the attack surface area that's opened up.

so they essentially ask you to install a program, that has access to everything and only let you play the game while you are happy with running it 24/7 i don't think LoL is a good enough game to warrant installing some weird VMs just to run it safely

THIS, i am tired of acting like most anticheats arent just rootkits

> moving toward They have been doing this bullshit for decades

EAC is also a rootkit

Gamers are 100% okay with this, that's the problem, when vanguard was first announced/released you could see some of the same complaints about it and the complaints were drowned by the amount of people claiming that X game should also implement an anti cheater just like vanguard so they could have less cheaters.

Man, we have allowed it since the turn of the century... Im the first one that advocates for privacy, security and all that stuff, but dude, its been happening since personal computers first appeared, and we allowed it, so why are we taking this as something new and be all angry about it? Not that we shouldnt have, but it is a little too late, dont you think?

And the worst part is that the average Joe doesn't realize it

@@creeper6530 the average joe just wants a program that works, until theres an issue that affects him

tbh, the difference between malware and operating systems (Windows) is just semantics at this point

@@lodgin Real.

@@creeper6530 You want cheaters in your game or preceived privacy? Keyloggers and screenrecorders can all be executed with only application level priviliage as we speak. If you don't want to, don't play?

thats NOT how that works my guy. vanguard being kernel level really has no impact on safety or any of that bs. you are highly unlikely to get hacked through vanguard. the realistic effect this will have on your system is negligable and you definetily do open yourself to way more dangerous things on the daily

Maybe there isn’t much scripters because anti-cheat is working?

why do you think that is? it is because anticheat has improved over the years and those cheaters who lack skill have begun trolling because they know they play terribly without cheating. Being against better anticheat makes me think that you are a cheater yourself.

@@kiyoponnn being against anticheat being uneccisarily invasive is different to being against anticheat. They don't need it to be kernel level to work, they're just lazy

I might be able to get a Masters student to research this with me, gonna be in a year or two though already have all the projects for this year lined up.

i got you bro i found this from someone who contacted riot support Vanguard's "driver does not collect or send any information about your computer back to us". From what I understand, the local Vanguard driver has a set state monitoring your computer. While it checks files for the presence of an anticheat or altering of the driver, it does not transmit any of that data. All it does is give a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" to the client version of Vanguard. So while the driver portion of the anitcheat has kernel level access and technically can view or alter files, if it even does that it is entirely local and only gives a positive or negative response to the client. Do what you want with that information.

​@@saintskillerdntfkwthIf this is how it works then I actually applaud Riot on their approach, a data obuscation API flag is EXACTLY how I would have done this. Still, even a harmless flag system like this can be used for data probing, so I am not entirely convinced yet.

You are right they steal you personal info they steal my facebook account and steam account infos and now they ignoring me like nothing happened I thnink that I will lawsuit them i hope riot games collapse but they are too much idiots who still play this trash games

@@saintskillerdntfkwth "contacted riot support" Stopped reading right there at first, then calmed down and read the whole comment. - Riot's "Just trust us bro" attitude stinks imho and I don't trust Tencent (and Chinese companies in general). - Yeah I'm aware I'm already giving my personal information to everyone (willingly or unwillingly, doesn't matter) but anything related to Russia or China really bothers me. - I have too much personal information stored in my computer (and no, nothing related to porn or hentai etc.) because I also use my PC for business purposes. My phone already gets infested with obvious bait-spam messages constantly and I delete them instantly, I don't want to risk my PC too you know. - I've quit LoL five or six months ago (been playing since Jinx was introduced) and never played Valorant, think I'm too old for that s**t lmao. I really wanted to return because I've always had fun no matter what, until I read all about that Vanguard thing. I suggest anyone reading this comment to never EVER reinstall the game until Riot REALLY assures Vanguard is safe and immune to get hacked.

And given how sloppy their coding seems to be at moments, sooner or later a security breach is bound to happen

Truth be told im pretty sure they already have 3rs parties inside for months. Question is whether Vanguard opens a doorway to RCE, or is shipped complete

Just as Tik-Tok is not a spyware. US might be at war witch China over Taiwan or Australia in just a few years. Imagine getting drafted and your enemy has personal information about 50% of your troops. It's not about detecting cheaters anymore, it's more about maximizing your chance of winning a future conflict at this point. And if WWII has a lesson to teach, it's that intel on enemy is what wins a war (see the story of Alan Turing and cracking the Enigma encryption)

THEY ARE ILL INTENDED, those who think otherwise are mentally challenged. Tencent literally owns Riot, why do you think they basically have a root kit (or an anti-cheat as they call it) in their games?

And last time they got hacked was less than 1 year ago when the entire league of legends source code and league of legends anti-cheat source code got stolen. LOL.

they already did with reverse engineering

As a game engineer and old malware developper, please, stop telling bs and install a specific OS for games and another for your life/work if you aren't happy. No body is gonna hack your anti-cheat driver in order to install a rootkit on your computer, you are nobody, believe me, you have to be very good to create a such exploit and nobody will risk to expose that kind of exploit in order to hack a little person like you, or nobody want to hack you with that level of complexity. You little boy watched too much movies, you are nobody but a little pretentious boy talking very much without having any cybersec skill. (there are already more than 100 methods to infect your computer and steal everything we can steal and this without having access to the kernel, so you guys are whining for nothing, you guys are simply a bunch of pretentious people with a lot of beliefs, you guys put more effort to talk about anti-cheat than cheaters)

4 years strong. I'll update in the next 4 years

something something solarwinds

Then i Hope you haven't played any of these games, that also have kernal level anti cheats - Apex Legends (EAC) - Fortnite (EAC) - Paladins (EAC) - Player Unknown: Battlegrounds (BE) - Rainbow Six: Siege (BE) - Planetside 2 (BE) - H1Z1 (BE) - Day-Z (BE) - Ark Survival Evolved (BE) - Dead by Daylight (EAC) - For Honor (EAC)

Kernel level isnt new. 90% of anti cheats run kernel level. The difference between them is that something like Easy Anti Cheat runs in usermode and the connection is completely severed to the kernel when the game is terminated. Vanguard however, loads at ring 0 even before windows is loaded.This sits at the same level as GPU or chipset drivers which is why when a crucial driver like Nvidia completely crashes you need to reboot the whole system. Which is exactly what happens with vanguard, severing the service manually or disabling it on startup just means you must reactivate it and reboot if you have any hope of playing the game.

@@reaperzxxtj8759 you really wanna tell me that ac like easy doesnt grab your data while game is running?Thats still a big issue,fuck it i remember when programs used to secretly mine bitcoin on your pc in background

Good point

Unironically this 100%, finally free from this pile of shit, especially with how tone-deaf Riot has become as of late

Yup. I'm about to uninstall it right now.

it wont lmao, its too big to fail. You can come back in 3 years and let me know if its dead

@@friendlyneighborhoodtotall1902 It's already half-dead, at least on semi-pro side. Without new talents the game at pro-level won't last long either as people get old. New generations are worse in general, and this trend has been there for years. While it won't stop casual players from playing it, as many just cant stop at this time, having no real goal will eventually kill the game. Although that's whole another topic.

But to be honest what are better options? I love the game and I hate cheaters - how to get rid of them otherwise?

@@sorek__ server side anti cheat

@@sorek__ There really isn't a better option. You can't beat cheaters unless you can play on the same level as them, and they sure aren't gonna play nice and run their cheats user-mode. They're going straight for the kernel.

@@sorek__ account age. if you played for 2 years regular and you have consistent rank compared to other players you should be trusted, just use account age and performance over time, how hard can it be, at any rate it still does more for anti cheat since you can never guaranty there are no hacks.

@@Parritz they could also get an exploit at hardware level, anti cheat software sounds like : " we make your computer trustworthy" like that ever worked.

Yeah, you should never give/share root/account access. Never trust internet!

Why not install the game in a VM? I don't think a root kernel can tunnel out of that. Can it?

As a linux user+linux server admin, even if i had windows there's NO WAY i would have installed it on my computer

vms are slow@@ambius2

@@ambius2VM installation is difficult as Vanguard has measures against it, not unbeatable measures, but difficult enough that even people versed in the field can find it not worth the effort.

Correct, I lost my perfect windows 10 setup to their AC. When I contacted support about the BSOD caused by their driver, they just told me to reinstall instead of telling me where the file to delete was.

Many applications come with kernel drivers; many of them "COULD" brick your PC. These are professional software engineering teams designing this. It's not just anti-cheats that could be affected by this.

Yeah it is an issue. I remember the FaceIT anti-cheat causing blue screens on my PC. It clearly said "faceit.sys". Uninstalled it and it has not crashed since.

​@@reeceward5573Vanguard is the only one that randomly does it combined with the developer refusing support for the devices that fell victims.

@@reeceward5573 The thing is, they are incompetent, you can't even uninstal the game with the regular uninstaler, why should we trust them with that?

It's the closest you can get to a bootloader without being one. It's actually ridiculous

luckily its owned by a company based in a country that is known for never committing cyberattacks@@COALEDasICE

They wonder why I don't play Valorant. This is why. If I wanted a rootkit, I'd invite Russia on my computer. Probably be more entertaining.

@@cameronbosch1213 NO ONE wonders why you don't play valorant, pal

@@purplewine7362you missed the point

Not true, Riot devs confirmed Vanguard wouldn't be needed on mac (and by extension I think the same would probably apply to linux) so we should be good

@@sajayrrr Linux runs the Windows version of League, and a Rioter said that they'll make no exception for Wine. So yeah, League just won't run on Linux

@@sajayrrrSorry but it's 100% true, Vanguard do not support Mac or Linux. It was never said LoL would not run on macOS (it will), but it was already confirmed that it won't on Linux.

Just gonna play TFT mobile I guess.

So the safest place to play Riot games are mobile phones

while uninstalling valorant you need to uninstall vanguard separately. Im pretty sure they made it this way so average andy would just uninatall valorant without uninstalling vanguard so it can collect "DATA" from the computer while running.

@@shintyxd788 every single game that has an anti cheat (apex or rainbow 6 or pubg, etc) all make you install and uninstall the anti cheat seperately, and they are also rootkits. stop spreading misinformation

You can just uninstall vanguard. There is a button for that.

You can literally uninstall it separately, I love reading braindead comments 😭

@@Razzlelulnot the point... my point is "literally" i dont want to have to install and uninstall more than one application to play your game like yes, I know you can uninstall it, but at the time I didn't know much about anti-cheats in video games and never foresaw that I would have to go manually uninstall anti-cheats myself after uninstalling their corresponding games. i aint downloading a game that does that. like im sure its not doing anything evil, its probably the only way for them to prevent cheaters since cheating has gone this far in this day and age, but its the idea that its on my computer and has the ABILITY to do evil even if it actually isnt that bothers me

this comment motivated me to uninstall, i’ve only been playing for 4 years and only because all my friends play it, but the comments out here are very awakening.

Same here , uninstalled.

right there with you man, 12 years on my side through thick and thin with this game, thought it was gonna be eternal and sung praise for it on the MOBA genre, but Riot once again proved me wrong, atleast I kicked my lol addiction.

Well they already do that with school tests done online so it isn't too far fetched :/

Than they'll ban faker's account

@@Ultima64 There's no way that you just compared school tests to a fucking video game. School tests lead to official and legally recognized results, video games do not. Cameras on formal examinations are fine and dandy as long as they do not require you to film anything that is not of legitimate interest to the school themselves, i.e no cameras in other rooms or pointing towards random directions that are irrelevant to the examination.

Considering most people play on laptops, thats already the case.

@@avananana honestly school tests shouldn't even be done outside of an actual teachers physical eye sight.

how

@@0000none3 League of Legends doesn't come packed with an uninstaller, and for the other games (especially the riot launcher) once you uninstall them they leave files hanging left and right

@@shaggy4667 exactly, all to steal valuable data from its users, classic CCP tactics

@@shaggy4667 that´s why I can´t uninstall lol - wth!

@@Daniel_Rahl same sh!t with ea laucher. you can t unistall that piece of sh!t!! azz launcher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will :)

@@LowLevelLearning I enjoyed this video and have been saying many of the same things for years. The problem is I usually get the "Then why aren't we hearing Security Experts talk about it?" Ignoring, of course, that I personally have 10+ years of experience in Systems AND Software AND Cloud Engineering. But yeah, you know a lot more on this topic than I do and what I do know scares me.

Nice

I hope we can find workarounds aswell, but I read somewhere that people got banned after a patch because they played LoL on Linux. So virtualization has banned players unfairly in the past

@@Ellefsen97 More specifically they were banned because they were missing a patch. That version has been corrected and a few people had their bans reversed when they actually had a human look at their ticket. The version in question was wine-lol-staging on the AUR. I was on the dev team who helped fix league on linux. Too bad we can't continue to play... Vanguard is where I myself, draw the line.

lmfao i was calling this for years, that they'll force vanguard for LoL too, and nobody believed me lmao

@@megadjc192 You’re not alone. I’ve played League since S2, but I have decided to uninstall because of Vanguard. I don’t like the precedent it sets. While I don’t think Riot has any bad intentions with the Kernel Driver, it’s impossible to know what the driver does. I don’t feel comfortable installing a root kit by a company 100% owned by the biggest Chinese company in the world as well

I’m 99% sure you already can through hyper-V

Tbf last year I ran into a lot of cheaters. Though if they were banned after a few games every time, issue would sort itself out honestly. All riot has to do is hire a couple of guys for spesifically banning cheaters, starting from higher elos.

@@albertnoble2727 Do you play on something besides NA? My experience ranged from smurfing with friends to my main, so from silver-masters, and I would be shocked if I played every day and somehow missed a massive amount of cheaters. (and friends from all elos have the same experience as me on NA)

@@giswax yeah i don't play on na. It must be about that, the cheaters i saw was hard to miss

I only recall roughly 3 scripters using dodge scripts on obvious champs in gold-plat elo recently. And that's within the past couple of years. Use to see them a lot back in s2/s3/s4 era but you hardly see it any more.

Scripting is a big problem in high elo and there are many people who openly admit to scripting for hundreds of games and never get punished

Your computer would be safe from the program, but your keyboard and mouse inputs are still being transmitted to the geforce now machine, which vanguard may or may not monitor.

i dont believe the game will be supported anymore once vanguard is enabled, similar to valorant not being supported currently

@@TTGDeathsbugsyyep, you wont be able to play league once vanguard gets implemented since GeforeNow runs the games in VMs and Vanguard doesnt let the game run in VM

as a cheat dev, please dont do more videos like this

​@@MsSoldadoRaso 😂😂😂😂😂😂

wait , if i turn off vanguard ALWAYS , im fine right? or I shoudn't let it get installed at all?

@@Tetrathegod You cannot turn it off without turning off your computer, uninstall the game.

The data collection is less of an issue only if the anti-cheat runs while the game is open and fully terminates itself when the game client is closed, It is still a severe risk, Can't wait to be completely unable to play Hytale because Riot made Hypixel Studios embed Vanguard anti-cheat into it.

@@MasterBroNetwork now why the fuck would a single player game needs anti cheat system

@@dankmemes8254 Are you serious? You do realize that Hytale will also have multiplayer servers as well as the singleplayer modes, right?

@MasterBroNetwork no i wasn't aware it will have multi-player lmao

It doesn't run after the game is closed (anymore)

Users>username>Appdata really only holds save data and configs. The data held in there isn't a concern.

@@reaperzxxtj8759 Understood. However, still the question remains if uninstalling Lol and Vanguard using blindly their uninstall guides is enough to get it out of the system entirely?

People are tired of cheaters and botters. Surprise.

@@UhOhUmm league has very few cheaters, it's extremely easy to detect scripts

@@Damian-ew1vl you do know that Riot also makes Valorant ?

Doesn't matter, the discussion revolves around the incoming league anticheat. Not that it excuses vanguard in other games...@@thunderingeagle

@@Damian-ew1vl Exactly. Been playing since the game's inception. Truth be said, scripters are extremaly easy to detect most of the time in league. In fact, you could quite literally just add "overwatch" from csgo and call it a day, without any further changes to anti-cheat. But I guess let's make another useless change that won't help the main issue. What are we even expecting from company that introduced the most predatory EOMM + DDA combo in the industry, to the point even EA is jealous?

Most people dont give a shit and just want to play the game without cheaters. I've also done computer security research, but really even the worst case scenario will only affect a very small percentage of people and most people are fine with doing way more destructive things daily. Realistically, driving a car 3 blocks is more dangerous than the probable risk posed by this. Not arguing for it, just giving the other side.

@@jgangx It's understandable that people want to play without cheaters but your argument is not really valid here. It's like saying "Why would I lock my apartment door, if a door to my building are locked?"

@@jgangx I understand but in my opinion people are taking a game (which most plays for fun and not for eSports) too seriously, I'd be pissed off if a cheater ruins a match but I'd quickly move to the next one and while there are eSports competitions with money prizes and such these could be held at eSports cafès and other places where owners can control the hardware and software, these would even be a nice way for fans to meet and make best friends, last year I had a great time going to in person Splatoon tournaments.

​@@apprenticerocker9885 Sell you are free to leave the game then Casual dont care what anti cheat the game runs Hardcore fans wanted vanguard to come yo league

@@jgangx Are you seriously arguing that the risk of bodily injury during a car wreck is a comparable risk to a rootkit being exploited when a company with terrible security is deploying it 24/7? Incomprehensible.

Honestly, AI-based image recognition is good enough that just capturing the screen makes more sense. I hope it happens, just so anti-cheat becomes moot.

@@4.0.4 There's a video on this topic, check out "Hacking into Kernel Anti-Cheats: How cheaters bypass Faceit, ESEA and Vanguard anti-cheats"

@@Para0234 and yet they somehow eventually still get caught

@@saintskillerdntfkwth There are many people who get away with it for a long long time.

@@rawbmar1166 yeah maybe with valve anti cheat

Not sure why you think that Riot should care about platform they dont even officially support,linux users that play league are so few that Riot didn't have incentive in past 10 years to even consider going for official support.

It's not that hard to make a kernel driver, but enough so people that sees themselves as tech savvy, shows the ignorance (I hope it's ignorance and not just acting dumb) about how and why a "kernel driver" it's needed Nowadays it's pretty easy to compile and run free cheats in league, it's really worrying in fact, the big wall it's understanding how to compile it by yourself And this anticheat makes it way hard (not impossible, you cannot stop hardware cheating as well) But once again, if people wouldn't bitch about something they don't really understand and they think they do, you would understand why riot already lost this battle and how valve it's coming for this in the near future

@@gonzalolog Vanguard is also ineffective at dealing with cheaters. It, just like every other anti cheat, gets fucked by anyone with a brain coding said cheats. Vanguard was even humiliated on stage to be utterly worthless.

People say that there's no point caring about Linux gamers. I think it's big mistake, as it's harder for Linux users to make league work, they have to put more effort to play this dumb game. I know from my experience, I've been playing for 10 years recently switch to Linux and all this struggle for nothing. I'm not supporting vanguard, time to quit league I guess 😀

@@Surtr174 exactly , so many gad damn hackers on shitlorant , it's not even doing it's job and it's shady as fuck , some extra rootkit malware we don't need on our PCs. Riot even claims it's helps remove smurfs? What a load of bullshit to sway the less informed masses into installing vanguard

can you please ellaborate how this would handle skripters? am not so knowledgable here... also bonus question, if i may ask: if I had valorant installed but is now not on the computer, would a data breach and leak of bad actors still affect me and how is this worse than a normal data leak?

Vanguard has full access to your machine, more rights than an administrator. The reason it is worse than a normal data leak is because it pretty much has anything, it scans all your files, programs etc. it collects anything and runs in the background all the time. Vanguard would "protect" league, valorant and other riot games by scanning all your files so you can't script and it may even interrupt innocent files. Riot had a security breach early in 2023 and vanguard can turn off your fans or other things that need to use your pc, i don't think you can install valorant without vanguard so even if you don't play valorant it's running all the time. If you turn it off you have to reboot your pc in order to play league/valorant again@@Ttangko_

It's not that simple to detect cheaters only on their servers.

This kind of thinking is wild. Make it seem like the issue to fix cheaters is spending money on servers. Vanguard has been one of the most effective anti-cheats out there for a reason.

@@mixed_nuts and prettty dangerous for a reason

This happened to my co-worker's kid. His PC kept getting BSOD cause of Vanguard.

GOD DAMN IT, I may have been a victim of this as well... it all makes sense now.

Now it all makes sense why my old pc does loop bsod since i installed valorant.

I know many more issues where it just does not work at all

still persists, i tried playing valorant on an older laptop and whenever i closed the game(sometimes even when started) i got blue screened

+1, Linux storage can be encrypted by default. & if it's still concerning, linux can be installed on external SSD which can be physically disconnected when running windows.

Yes, because its a kernel extension it could affect your main OS. However, if you use a VM to install Windows and install VanGaurd on that it can't affect your main PC

All connections are peer-to-peer. There's not a danger for **securely written applications**, and if you only peer to peer with people who you are OK with knowing your vague location (Every website you visit does this).

​@@valkyrie_pilot Not true. In most online games nowadays, you send and receive data from a server. This means you don't directly connect to other clients in your match and instead the server acts as a middleman. P2P connections in games aren't as safe because they expose your IP address to other players (or peers). This can be circumvented using a VPN though

@@dbanfii A server *is* a peer. And your IP address is not dangerous outside of giving your location, unless your router security sucks- but there are bots that scan the entire internet for vulnerable routers, so that won't save you.

⁠@@valkyrie_pilot When people talk about P2P in gaming, they generally refer to games that run with the peer to peer between players model of networking.

@@valkyrie_pilotAlso an IP address is definitely sensitive information especially if you’re a high profile gamer because of DDoSes. Happens all the time when a streamer’s IP gets leaked.

It's still extremely closed sourced and way more watered down than this stuff.

then just stop Playing Riot games in general, since this may be their goto Anti-cheat for current and new games in the future

Or it could be exploited by other bad actors, similar to how the Genshin Impact "anti cheat" was distributed, auto-installed and then exploited.

@@riftblaze that's what I decided to do.

riotgames123

@@Gramini It's not like Riot Games have a history with data breaches, you know, with their source code leaking and all.

How would an open source anti-cheat even work? Genuine question I'm not versed in this sort of thing at all.

​@@snowys4168yes.

same question. i think the commenter missed the main point of anti cheats. @@snowys4168

@@snowys4168 Open source making it clear exactly how the anti-cheat detects cheaters might initially make it easier to circumvent, but it also means that a greater community can peer-review the code to verify/improve its resilience (and that it's not doing anything it shouldn't be). The people most motivated to reverse-engineer a closed-source program will most likely be malicious actors who will take advantage of any vulnerabilities they find; being closed-source means trusting the anti-cheat developers (in this case Riot) to play cat-and-mouse behind the scenes to fix exploits as they discover them themselves.

@@snowys4168 imagine you as a developer working on an closed source project which you obfuscate and then give to users for free, you will be the only one with access to that very sourcecode and so you can't really find every bug yourself, your users may enourage some bugs which you can fix but it won't by no means everything. now pricture yourself as a programmer who releases his sourcecode, freely aviable on github. Now volunteers will read the code and if they find bugs, they will open an github issue and help you to fix it, they may ven do a pull request with the solution implemented by themselve which you just have to analyze and if everything seems good, you can accept the pull request. gnu/linux is opensource, and what do you think, why there is no linux malware but a bunch of windows malware? think about that.

Literally barely any comments Saying that

The source code for the league client is also out there somewhere.... so easy for a bad actor to reverse engineer it and potentially screw everyone's pc up

riot games employees are still people like you and me. vulnerabilities still exist.

@@chicogonzales916not true

Vulnerabilities will always exist, even on a computer with nothing but chrome installed on it there is still Vulnerabilities, if I want to play game and the tradeoff is potentially my discord chat habits getting to Chinese people I'll just have to take the tradeoff, is it safe not particularly but am I in any real danger compared to just having an internet connection in the first place, not really china can know everything that Google knows about me if they hacked Google and have root access to my pc for me to have less cheaters in my game I've decided the risk is worth it because I don't have much to lose even if China was super evil about it

Valorant hasn't had a single issue with this, how are you going to argue that lol

tf are you talking about. Vanguard is widely known to cause blue screen of death in the Valorant community even when the game isnt running. People were posting their system event viewer critical error results en-masse all linking to the vanguard process ID.@@dredgephantom4212

@@dredgephantom4212 With league's source code leaked + AC last year, it's going to be bad.

@@dredgephantom4212 now that is so strong cope or you are just very very clueless

Yeah, let's compare a game that has the same code that some random amatours wrote in 2009 to a much simpler software released in 2021. Please XD

Yeah when Starfield came out i pirated morrowind and installed openMW havent completed that save but played enough that i know i like the game and have basic comprehension of the game and could easily beat it. Is probably best RPG world i have played in. I dont really care if the devs/publishers make money on these live service games since i will just pirate old games there are so many countless.

One can uninstall the game, instead of only hoping that Riot handles your data better than they have their own, having had multiple data breaches, leaking their own source code, losing all of their data. That, or only hoping that their links with the Chinese Government doesn't result in anything nefarious, in regard to your data. Let's not pretend that you have to accept this happening to you, you do not, frankly I think you're absolutely insane if you do.

@@emptywhy I'm more so referring to Riot messing up something in the kernel and bricking pc's or locking you out. The data concerns are equally valid though

@@TOWGYB You mean what literally happened when Vanguard came out? Where it was detecting Keyboard drivers or hardware controllers as cheats, disabling them without consent and causing people to lose access to their keyboards completely or their CPU fan completely being disabled and leading to people's PC breaking?

@@Volvary "When it came out" Talking about the past when it's completely fine now classic.

games are not limited to 5 persons only now. it connects all of the people world wide. so a LAN party might work in a esport event it wont work in a online multiplayer game

@@gamersworld4176 I'm not saying that we should avoid online gaming altogether, just keep online gaming for casual matches and training (where the worst thing the occasional cheater can do is to ruin a match) and do the serious matches (where you can win a place at important tournaments or money) in person

that would just destroy all together. the main appeal of competitive gaming is that everyone can have a taste of hard core try hard competitive mindset. the reason why fighting games never became a popular mainstream esport because the community kept the competitive scene closed to few people and not having people have a taste of the competitiveness@@apprenticerocker9885

@@apprenticerocker9885 or, alternatively, let FACEIT or other 3rd parties run their own rankings. Rito has shown again and again that their predatory use of EOMM and DDA systems disqualify them from creating serious competetive environment in their games.

​@@apprenticerocker9885 You are describing basically what has been happening since competitive (online)gaming has been around.

No you have to uninstall it separately. Even if there are no games installed that need it, Vanguard is still there and it is still running 24/7 on your PC. Same with pretty much every other Kernel level Anticheat

if by the highest level of game you mean GM+, hiring skilled players for peanuts to act as admins is the actual solution to ALL high level issues. But riot will never implement it. Even if it's probably much cheaper.

Never in my life have I seen a cheater in League, probably by pure coincidence and I've been playing since season 1! Is such a deeply rooted anti-cheat necessary to this degree??

@@fannabeltonakis76206 in the recent years in high elo, it became an issue. In the early seasons like 4-5, there were incidents with drop hacks. And no, there is no need for such an invasive anticheat.

Meanwhile Valve: "You get a piece of coal, you get a piece of coal, and _you_ ... you get a highly toxic piece of coal. Now get out of here!" 😂

That's an interesting idea Create a honeypot for cheaters

I've always just thought, if you flag a cheater, don't ban them but give them a separate MMR that only plays with other flagged cheaters. Vanguard is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me right now.

But CSGO and cs2 had way more cheaters than league, damn, it's rare to have cheaters on league but on Cs it's every friday

this idea is actually genius i want this one to happen

It's not about data really, whoever mentions data doesn't help the conversation. It's about security risk and welcoming an additional attack vector. Besides, Vanguard is intrusive and causes minor issues on many systems.

oh no, they're going to steal all your private DATA that you already posted on the internet, how could i deal with this information!

with valve i think is a more reasonable *risk*, but i dont trust tencent. anyways, everyone should be worried about companies running code in kernel mode, it look sooo bad

Hey man faceit and esea do their job well

Valve said multiple times they don't want to run an invasive anticheat and instead try to move AC to the server. This has the advantage of also being able to work against cheats that don't even run on the same computer as the game.

@@Sam-rr4ek Did people already forget that ESEA was caught being used to mine bitcoins on their users' PCs? They went to court over it, lost, and even paid a fine. I wouldn't be touching ESEA with a 100-foot pole. Doesn't matter how huge of an apology they made - never touch anything of theirs again if you value your machine's integrity

How come after 4 years of VALORANT (and Riot Games getting hacked) there are no signs at all that they're collecting personal information? You would think that by this time we should already know if they lied or not. Don't get me wrong, I hate Tencent as much as the next guy, but I feel very confident that at least Riot Games are being truthfull about this.

@@sanketower yeah so much fear misinformation and doubt in this comment section, literally no scandal or any issue has arised from vanguard and there are simple ways to disable it with like 3 lines of code

Yea xd you guys are very misinformed and delusional. EVERY company that isn't using open source code will most defeneately steal your data and sell it, be it because the government wants the data or for monetary gain. This is everywhere and will be everywhere. The only way to circumvent this is to use open source stuff like Tor and Linux where there is no incentive to try to steal data and where everyone can make sure that there is no malware. Most big tech companies go into a massive loss each year. How do you think that they make ends meet? The data will be of good leverage for investors and such to make sure that it is worth the cash. Take youtube for example, runs in a definite loss, but it can make it up by basically being spyware that gives info to the highest bidder.@@saintskillerdntfkwth

@@sanketower What signs do you want, exactly? If someone breaks into your house every night and steal things you aren't using so you never notice it, that doesn't mean you're safe

@@skyleite Except that nobody is stealing anything. Because a third party saw through the cameras in your house (the Riot hack) and the guy breaking in has not taken anything (no evidence found from the hack). You guys are making up the story of "Riot is collecting excesive personal information through VANGAURD" and then use it as evidence against VANGAURD. Quite delusional if you ask me.

Based.

there is no difference between mac, linux and windows. Open source does not mean that code had any security audit or even code review. Also anticheats do not work in VM

@@severgun open source means the source code is open for code review. It's up to you to review the code. There is a lot of difference between Linux and Windows.

stop with linux meat riding

@@severgun Tell that to the University of Minnesota.

Valorant has had it for a while, all other anti cheats also do this, nothing will happen

@@fitmotheyap Or it will... but about 8-10 years later

@@fitmotheyap the EU court cases took about a decade to go through but they did, eventually. So it's not unlikely

Nobody is forcing you to play and install their game lol? You don't have a right to play their game protected by EU laws lol.

@@Sorest2 no but any company that wants to do business within the EU has to comply with their regulations. Otherwise, they'll lose access to the EU market which is quite big. Same reason why many companies self-censor based on Chinese laws.

you can't

But that would require extra resources on the corp's part, and that eats into profit, and we just can't have that.

Or you cant stop play the game if you don't like anti cheat

@@wnsjimbo2863 Or you can just let random strangers in your house if you don't like boundaries

@@wnsjimbo2863 I'm sorry your addiction to a video game has removed all sense of privacy and risk.

The cheaters are using programs that make their inputs for them. How the fuck would you detect this from the server side?

Vanguard is a Kernel level extension, meaning its loaded into your BIOS. So it can affect other OSes. Using a virtual machine it can't affect your main PC.

​​@@cassiuscartland sorry I didn't get your point. BIOS is the firmware burnt on the machine which simply points to bootloaders during startup, right? Not something anyone can edit. Windows itself can't access Linux partitions due to encryption & bifurcation at grub bootloader layer, how can a windows-kernel level program access it then?

​@@cassiuscartland also, note that linux can be installed on external disk which can be configured up in boot order. When linux disk is disconnected physically, it lets windows load. For Vangaurd to access that, it needs literal magic :)

yes, it's n valorant

that's what i'm wondering. I thought the community was already talking about this a few years ago is this some kind of reupload?

@@Jyukenmaster95 there used to be no vanguard for league.

​@@vyyrYeah, SomeOrdinaryGamers talked about it when Valorant was released and told people not to play it. Hopefully people actually listen this time.

Its not just this audience, that audience. Its gamers in general, always complain and say you will refuse to accept something in a game but fear of missing out will make them continue playing. No backbone will be shown. Its like that one time a call of duty game was planned to be boycotted by a huge steam group of players because they demanded dedicated servers, that then played the game anyway on day of release.

@@MidasButSilver Ever since DLC was introduced in 2006 gaming has been dead

Sadly most "company audiences" are like that: from The Pokèmon Company to Apple

​@@apprenticerocker9885Nintendo is by far the worst.

It could scan your key strokes. It also could make a screen record or control your microphone or camera. Its very unlikely that they do that but it would be possible.

Unlike the Americans who surveillance and spy on everyone and gather everyones private data and use this for criminal activity and criminal wars around the world. But hey, China.. Right?

It's difficult to make that so not many people will be able to. Then those smaller amount of cheaters can be caught by human review teams.