Vanilla Creatures Are Dead, Long Live Vanilla Creatures! 

Haha that’s incredible

Could there be a way to have all of them in one deck?

Yeah if only you could do a rat ball style deck (a crab bisque deck if you will)

​@@Grogeous_Maximus Really bad cube format

Could also play 99 copies of the same card if youre playing Chilean Lowlander

Wish I could heart this twice 😆

Badass art and badass flavor-text, what more do you need?

This was one of the first cards I got, I think a neighbour gave me it with some other random cards. This was way before I even knew what Magic really was about. I always thought that the art looked cool, and it still is.

This, 100%. I think the proliferation of video games is much of this - complexity is less of an issue for the increasing number of new players who have played many games before! Back when understanding alternating turn order, life totals, resource systems (in general), creature health was a step new players had to make, vanilla creatures helped keep the game approachable, but nowadays most new players have probably played a video game that introduced them to half or more of these things.

Or they're leaving without saying so, while being filled in with some newb to take their place. This is true of most things. The most invested are the loudest, for better or worse. The overwhelming majority just goes with the flow until whatever it is doesn't work for them anymore, and then they move on.

My poor dopamine-starved brain is incapable of comprehending how someone could remain interested in something without thinking about it constantly.

There's a shocking amount of people who don't get this. It's like there are two kinds of casual, the true casual and the invested casual, and the catch is that the invested casuals think they're the true casuals. The reality is that they're generally not.

@@PhoenicopterusR It depends what the point of comparison is. There’s casual in contrast to invested, and then there’s casual in contrast to professional.

@@PhoenicopterusR once you're invested in anything such that you're seeking out more information on it, you're no longer casual. You may not be obsessed like a true hardcore player, but you're no longer casual. The funny thing is that whether these players are competitive or not is irrelevant, and they don't seem to know that. You can be hardcore into something and still enjoy it at a non-competitive level. You can be a casual player, and be competitive. The level of investment is all about the time spent.

Even a ton of the tokens today aren’t vanilla creatures. Whether they have haste trample etc

@@jareddumke5300 oh man, good point!

​@@jareddumke5300 French Vanilla. But yeah you get tokens now that say "sac and counter" or "deal 1 upon death".

A 2/2 for 2 with a big upside even

I'd go as far as to call this a color pie break

I think this is really indicative of a larger issue with magic in that they (Wotc/Maro) act like every new set/ card design absolutely MUST push some type of boundary forward (which for them it probably does bc revenue is known to dip for "weaker" sets) and that, in turn, means that things like core sets and vanilla creatures are seen as not desirable, which is a shame. I'd love to draft a lower-power set again with fewer keywoards and branching mechanical rebrandings...would also help get my friends into it.

Goblin Assailant is a reprint, as is Knight of the Keep, the other LTR vanilla.

The reality is that they could easily make a handful of vanilla creatures, that could be recycled through sets as needed, for each color, and have them be relevant but not be power crept. Green, to start with since it IS the creature color, could easily have a GG 4/5 vanilla. It gives an aggro green deck, or any deck that can afford the double pip, a beefy creature without the work of Goyf. It also doesn't really undermine Goyf, because Goyf is more easily splashable, while potentially getting much bigger. The same could be done for all colors, keeping stats and costs relevant to that particular color. Black could go either more offense or more defense, or even do one of each, as Black tends to have beefy 1/4s as easily as it has 5/1s. White could split the difference and be a 3/4 for WW, or a 2/3 for 1W. Red goes more aggro, but weaker stats for the cost, and Blue would typically get a more defensive creature for a slightly increased cost. It can be done, such that, at a minimum, the creatures are usable in draft. And if a GG 4/5 ends up seeing some Constructed play, then so be it. Additionally, and more along the lines of what I'd love to see, is more quality French vanilla cards in the game, with costs that made them actually useful to be considered for deck building.

@@Xoulrath_ The idea of recurring cycles of expensive-pip mono-color creatures would be a way to go! And "French Vanilla" should be the standard and the norm.

​@@DanielRedMoonvanilla and French vanilla both have places in the game, you pay for stats and abilities, so all you have to do to make both cards fair and balanced is you get fair stats for a cost when you don't get an effect with it

It does break the color pie a bit and also the flavor doesn't quite do it. A stiff breeze doesn't kill anyone. So I think, what you want to do instead is something like "Tap Target creature. If it's toughness if 2 or less, put a stun counter on it." or some variety on this. That way it still plays with the idea of low toughness creatures being more affected by strong winds. And to extend on that, how cool would be a global version of the effect, eg. an instant for about 4-5 mana: "Return all creatures with toughness two or less to their owners hands. Tap all creatures. Put a Stun counter on all creatures with toughness 4 or less." So what ends up happening is, the tiny stuff gets blown back to their owners hand, the medium sized dudes with 3 and 4 toughness have to get back on their feet and everything with toughness 5 or greater is like "well this was a bit of an inconvenience".

@@paulszki yeah it would be great in black

That's only so true, because you still have things like tribal concerns and what you want, sure there's a spread, but if you look at say dwarf tribal, they have a 1 mana 1/1 for vanilla cards, the closest they will get otherwise is from effects that don't matter like enslaved dwarf which is a 1 mana 1/1 that can sacrfice itself to give plus 1 damage and firststrike to a black creature, smaller tribal could really get a lot of help with some vanilla creatures that are just good stats for the cost, particularly in low power settings where people aren't trying to win with a combo that goes off gives infinite mana and invite draw

Yeah, I feel like a new player cannot even conceptualize the power curve, which is integral to magic. Once they can do that for each color, they're not a new player anymore. They have grasped "the meta" in the most basic sense and the difference between colors and playstyles.

In all fairness, Combat math just doesn't matter that much in constructed formats nowadays. Think about it the next time you are playing or watching some games. 90% of the time in constructed formats, it is incredibly obvious when you should or shouldn't attack and you play accordingly. Combat math is far more important in limited where combat tricks and other stuff exist and where removal is at a premium and board wipes are non-existent so board states get larger and more cumbersome.

They could just print skins of vanilla creatures to repurpose them for new planes and draft environments, the same way they do skins for secret lairs.

I think my best argument for why vanilla creatures should stick around is that it gives a clear upgrade target in precons helping players learn how to customize their decks and evaluate cards.

@@distractionmakers I think WOTC has lost control of MTG, and we the players need to create our own formats and metas to preserve anything left. Commander is self policed. Cube-ism is on the rise. Kitchen Table Magic is the most popular format. The corporate need for profit and limitless growth is leading to power creep and the mixing of the Color Pie, as well as more short sighted decisions that stave off the inevitable for another set. Longer rotations leads to power creep. Selling to Modern and Commander players leads to power creep. MTG is rolling down the hill, trying to keep the momentum going as long and as fast as possible. But it doesn't have any brakes.

Have you seen the mtg commercial though? 😆

@@distractionmakers Vizzerdrix and Kezzerdrix are family goals, those fluffy bunnies will take no disrespect

What I like about that design is that the recursion effect doesn't work on tokens, but the other two effects do, because that's the easiest way to do vanilla matters.

Don't forget Jasmine of the Boreal. It helps you cast vanilla creatures and punishes opponents for not playing them

Dr. Who can't wear the One Ring, 'cause it isn't an equipment... wait... WHY ISN'T THE ONE RING AN EQUIPMENT??? Horrifying.

@@lucasriddle3431 It's not an equipment because the player will never willingly give it away.

The problem with this design space is that your deck doesn't actually do any thing if your vanilla enhancers get removed. Sure, not every deck needs to be competitive, but there's more than that going on here. You're dedicating a set's card slots to "boring" cards, you'd need a critical mass of vanilla creatures. Which then other than the couple of players that like doing weird things these cards get relegated to draft chaff. Honestly I don't blame them for thinking it's not worth the effort.

Gurmag isn't a vanlla, it's what's called a "french vanilla". These are creatures with no real abilities other than keyworded ones that don't do a whole lot as far as interacting with the actual game, such as vigilance, trample, haste, etc.

I'm fairly sure he's still played in Pauper.

So in other words the colors don't matter anymore.

The issue with this is that granting creatures without abilities abilities means they now have abilities and so are not affected by the cards that grant them abilities. Iirc that was one of the biggest challenges the design team had when trying to design a “vanilla matters” card (specifically a commander like Ruxa, Patient Professor)

It’s true! I was referring to main sets, but who knows what that even means anymore haha.

And dragon rage channeler too

Hmm good question…

Multicolored. I know they’re vanilla, but if we’re looking for the most simple vanilla creature in a main set it was strixhaven.

Agreed. I wonder how big of an issue not having an intro product is. I came across a channel the other day of players who had just played their first game. They had purchased the Dr. Who and LOTRs precons. They didn’t even know they could customize the decks. They thought you were just supposed to buy more decks to play against each other. In that context it makes sense. Why would LOTRs mix with Dr. Who?

Definitely interesting and takes advantage of the digital format.

it could be interesting to see a commander that has an ETB effect for vanilla creatures. Something like drawing a card or cascading could be really fun as a whole commander deck

Good point haha

There is a case to be made for cards having their primary function printed on the card and not in the rulebook.

Hmm I’d say tarmogoyf is a step above French vanilla (vanilla with an evergreen keyword), so… vanilla chocolate chip.

Vanilla trib… er, kindred!

@@distractionmakers I guess? Idk, I was thinking more along the lines of token decks or artifact decks, not sure if I'd call those tribal or kindred since both can produce a wide array of strategies that "artifact tribal" isn't specific enough for a title.

Look, this card came out when I was 13. We didn’t know Japanese. My mispronunciation stuck and now years later I get to be corrected on RU-vid. It’s too late for me, save yourselves! 😆

@@distractionmakers T_T I speak with love of best boi and the simplicity of the Japanese spoken language. No disrespect meant. I was 16 when the set came out and was in Japanese class to boot so Kamigawa definitely holds a special place in my heart.

@@distractionmakers I pronounced all the Kamigawa cards wrong when they came out too. But learning how Japanese is Romanized is very easy and takes like 5 minutes to learn. I have left comments on various videos where people mispronounce the names, and it doesn't seem like they care, probably because everyone in their scene pronounces the card the same way. Some other things people get wrong almost all the time that really bug me: The vowel the video used to start Isamaru is spelled "ai" in Romanized Japanese. It's never spelled "ei", which it pronounced in Romanized Japanese like it is in English "weigh". The 'o' of Romanized Japanese is always pronounced like the 'o' in the English word "cone", never as in the English word "con". These are such common mistakes that I don't think Eiganjo Castle or Otawara have *ever* been pronounced correctly on RU-vid. Eiganjo Castle is particularly odd when everyone pronounces Boseiju correctly. There's another very common mistake, but it's actually too hard to get English speakers to correct so I normally don't like mentioning it, because it means not having any unstressed vowels, which English speakers can't do. But Japanese does not have syllabic stress in the way English does, and so doesn't change the pronunciation of vowels depending on whether they're stressed. This means that all the 'a's in names like Isamaru, Otawara, or Sakura should be pronounced exactly the same, whereras English speakers will unconsciously weaken whichever 'a's they don't think should be stressed into schwas.

Yup, good insights. This is actually something that was commented on when Hasbro’s stock was downgraded. The company has gone from being run like a legacy company (like LEGO) to a pseudo-tech company. Fast profits, caution to the wind.

It was in a precon right? I was referring to main sets, but who knows what that means any more.