VCR vs. Reel to Reel for Recording Music | Can you tell the difference? 

Hey y'all! I'm first and foremost a musician, but I try to present technical information as accurately as possible without over-extending my knowledge. In other words, I don't like bulls**ting. If you're interested in the technical aspects of VHS audio, this article clears up older versions of VHS vs. Hi-Fi stereo VHS (my machine): www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model/793700/TT190%20-%204626.pdf ✌️📼🎼

What he forgot to mention was the COST. Not only are VCR dirt cheap (especially compared to a good reel-to-reel) but the tape cost is miniscule. And, because of the helical recording system, the VCR tape speed has no bearing on sound quality. Meaning for about $20 you can get 6-8 HOURS of recording tape. Try that with reel to reel.

it still surprises me of the production quality of this channel even with only 500 subscribers. I look forward to watching every episode that comes out. Keep it up mate.

Many times when using these vcrs to record it's good to have the video hooked up to something like a small tv. This may help reduce hum and noise by not leaving that jack open. Also, yes, you need to pump the levels. VCRs have awesome compression and can handle a lot of gain. This is important when recording with vcr.

I have so much love for this channel! I'm gonna dig out the vhs tomorrow haha

This is awesome . I have been walking by one of these everyday at my parents place and just stumbled across your video. Love your channel

The VHS has a surprisingly tasteful low end bump.

Just found your channel, great stuff, I’m sure you’ll be growing quickly. One suggestion I’d make on A/B’ing sources for comparison - don’t make the cuts on beat, make them at completely random intervals. I find the differences are easier to hear that way on videos like this, maybe that’s just me though.. I realize it’s more of a pain when lining up different mixdowns coming from a cassette deck, but I think it’s worth it.

I've just discovered your channel over the last few weeks - amazing videos and good tunes too! 🙏

Holy crap this video is straight out of the 80's man... and provides useful info with style?! Subscribed! I'm actually about to demagnetize my Akai X-165D's heads in preparation to make a mixtape from my Technics SL-1200 MK6 (Japanese model).

Man! The last video I commented on hooked me with that same tape deck I have, but serendipity lead me to this one after I just sorted through tons of older high end VCR recording and mixing equipment I almost just got rid of. Thanks for the new inspiration.

I just found your channel and I’m absolutely hooked

Oh my gosh I just found my favourite RU-vid channel in the WORLD

I think the VCR sounded best - no question about it to my ears. The flattest (lifeless - not frequency response) was direct into the computer. The reel-to-reel came in at a close second. Great video! Subbed your channel. 😎👍

When we played live, I would record all the audio off the board into a VHS tape. 2 hours of audio on one tape! The frequency response of a HiFi VCR, is really good!

This is so cool…I have never even thought about recording sound into a VCR…I am in my mid 50’s,so I remember VCR’s very well…I had a HiFi VCR that sounded amazing back in the 80’s…but that was pre digital anything…except watches and calculators….I didn’t know you could just send audio into it….I may dig mine out and give it a shot….Absolutely great video..just found your channel by accident..I am subscribed now..I gotta see more..

This is unbelievable content…searching for the tape answers and came across it…thank you… …BTW…um, am I the only one that thought the VCR sounded the best?…

Hey, man. This is a great channel!

This channel is exactly what I needed, thank you!

This is great! I was just about to throw out an old vcr. Glad I saw this

Wow. Mind...Blown! And it makes so much sense. I've currently been recording everything from 4 track cassette through a compressor pedal then to my audio interface and into a DAW strictly for uploading. No tweaking takes place in the Daw. And of course I've been G.A.S.ing for a reel to reel or a DAT recorder and this might be just what I'm looking for.

i absolutely love your show =)

Very cool and informative vid as always. What immediately comes to mind are successfully transferring any recordings done on blank VHS tapes to digital ( for combining tracks, etc.) , the hiss and how to eliminate it without the classic noise reduction, and how to actually check recording levels while recording onto VHS.

Back in the early 90s, in what I now call "The Dark Years". I used to work at Radio Shack. And back then they still sold RtR, DAT, and DCC. But by far, the most popular recording media for garage bands and hobbyist musicians, was Hi-Fi Stereo VHS. You did have to have a pure audio source though. The recording quality was so good, that there was no noise reduction built in.

Great point. I'm an Xer that has to work at a PC most of the day. Love my DAW but am very interested in getting "off the grid" and using a VHS would make perfect sense in conjunction with an analog 4-track recorder. I want to get back to pure creativity that doesn't involve a mouse or keyboard. Thanks for the idea and inspiration! Keep up the great videos.

That's what I wanted to know. Thank you very much!

That great. Thanks for the videos

Suddenly, goodwill/salvation army stores and pawn shops, across the globe, are being emptied of VHS technology. Great video, man! Thank you for what you do. Stay analog AND analogical, my friend...

i enjoyed the video, back in the day i used to record my band rehearsals straight from the sounddesk on vhs tape, it sounded way better than recording onto cassette tape

Very cool video. I would be really interested to see a mix done all in the box that is clean and digital and then sent through the VCR to see if it gives it any of that nice tape warmth.

i have a couple of that model vcr, they have great sound

Alesis ADAT machines also used VHS tapes, and they can be had for very little 💰 these days. Cool video! I really enjoyed the comparison between all 3. 👍🎶👂🙂

Good job. I've always wondered. Not bad. It was clear to me from the beginning the source material but I wasn't sure about the other two. The VCR in my simple setup (old laptop, old cheap headphones) shows a larger spectrum.

Different VCR’s can give you different results, but one thing to look for when doing this is changing from SP to EP tape speeds. It’s a little counter-intuitive, but most folks find that recording at the slower speed results in the same audio quality (and also may remove the hiss 🤓). Awesome video - maybe do a follow-up at some point! I’ve done stereo mixes with almost no audible hiss from a DAW. Cheers!

I STILL have the same setup, Porta-One and VHS Hi-Fi in my stable, occasionally use for grins instead of my HD24 and Audacity for mixdown. Since 1990.

Well done. During 1978, I bought a TEAC 3440 and was appalled at the signal to noise ratio. Using a test instrument set, it barely managed 50db, so I bought a dbx II 4 channel unit and that solved the problem. I was impressed with the sound quality of the VHS HiFi PCM system. All that good sound from a tape barely moving compared to the TEAC at 15 ips. That's my 10c worth.

Great video plus I still record with vhs tapes every day specially I get movies from Netflix and RU-vid Putting all that on my vhs tapes

I just bought a Panasonic omnivision VCR for mixing down my Fostex model 80. I was using that same Teac model you have for mix down but it doesn’t seem to be the best for that task. It does have some fantastic output to it though, something about those “drive” knobs on the front can really crunch the audio in a pleasing way on the way out.

Cool channel man and thanks for all your vids!! I can hear a difference on reel to reel PAN. It is not centered, has more sound on right side

I honestly wasn't paying attention to this week's listening quiz, just digging the music. The VCR did, though, have a bit more top end to my ears.

Yes, the SVHS Hifi machines work great for audio! Love them.

I came from Facebook, your sister posted this, so I gotta leave a view cause she cool af. My name is spook DeVille on Facebook🖤✨

Here you are a fellow believer of tapes and new subscriber from the super developed country of Mexico.

youre a fuckin rockstar bro i never even thought of using it.. the sound quality must be great.. still havent finished the video.. but i had to give my praise to your genius im definitely tyring this.. in this city most people sell them to second hand shops where they restore old machines all day

Great Topic. I guessed (3) correctly. Actually this is an old ambition of mines. For which I will be "experimenting" as well soon. Keep up the great content. Peace...Netm8kr

Great video! Ive recorded to hifi VHS from my 4 track, really was cool! I didn't get any added noise like yours did. Actually, I couldn't tell the difference to my digital recording, it didn't add anything nor did it take away anything to be fair to the VHS. But for that reason I didn't bother with it again. Where as My Revox A77 really adds something when you record to it! Although that is expensive to maintain

Good channel and vibe.

I saved so many songs VHS HiFi. It rivals digital. Sounds absolutely Awesome!

I've gotten excellent results from a Panasonic Omnivision Hi-Fi VCR.

Enjoyed your vid, and thought I would share my experiences with this largely unknown VCR "Hi-Fi" audio capability. I used HI-FI vcr's for video dj work back in the 80's. At that time, Music video audio was terrible, so I would put together versions with decent audio quality myself. After capturing a good quality video source, I would use this to record a 2nd generation video source syncing it alongside audio sourced from a CD or Vinyl and record it onto a Hi-Fi VCR. I would then have a CD quality music vid to use on a pretty serious dj set up, video projector and big screen. This was hard or very exspensive to achieve in the 80's and even into the late 90's. A few have made comments around the audio being linear and not helical scan. While its true there has always been a linear audio path and some even marketed a "Stereo VCR" which in reality just split the mono linear portion of the tape and used half the track for left and half for right, the sound might be stereo, but still garbage. These are NOT the Hi-Fi vcr's which this youTube vid is refering to, and yeah, they probably do belong in a recycle bin. For it to be useful at recording and playing back decent quality audio, there needs to be the words or a symbol "Hi-Fi" printed on the facia or tape loading flap or somewhere on the front. "Hi-Fi" identifies it as having the helical scan audio function and from my experience, if you want to get the best out of one of these, choose one with audio record level controls. The short falls as already commented on by others are real, being head switching distortion and pumping. Some manufacturers offered better quality more expensive machines, or specifically targeted the audio function rather than just improved sound for a video soundtrack. They spent more time and R&D minimising or working around these issues. Most people wont notice or care, but if your a critical audio listner and / or have a decent sound system, you will. That said, they were and are a very cheap method of bulk recording at great quality. (outside the digital realm) The first hifi vcr's were quite a bit more exspensive than a standard vcr with the pick of the domestic units being the JVC HR-D725. Very well built unit with excellent picture quality, minimal head switching distortion, manual level controls and great functionality. While I lusted after one of these, at the time it was just too exspensive, but I found the NEC 895 to be a badge job copy of the JVC for a lot less $ so ended up with the same that I could afford. I bought or hired quite a few makes and models over the years using a number of them for DJ work and music for parties etc. The other quality machine of mention would be most of the Panasonic models and a couple of the high end Mitsubishi's... If its an SVHS and a high end model even better. A lot of the cheaper units I trialled did have the head switching distortion issues, and definately the pumping issue were there was an auto gain control (AGC) used instead of Level control. One other comment I'd make, being as the helical scanned Hi-Fi audio layer is below the helical scanned video layer, better quality tape will allow the recording to last better as far as dropp outs. It's true you can use any tape and get similar results if the tape is sound, but being a magnetic tape it will suffer degradation over time and more so with el-cheapo formulas Hope someone finds this interesting or useful. Cheers !

My old band back in the day we recorded all the live tracks on a fostex lr 16 16 track digital recorder using a biamp advantage one for preamps, mixed on reaper and the master 2 track sent to a JVC super vhs recorder. It was considered high end with the +4 dbu inputs. Interesting combo. Sounded good. Kinda added some warmth and certainly set the sound apart from a straight digital master. It still maintained a 20hz to 20kz response which was shocking

Me and the guitarist in my band always used a VHS hifi - VCR in the 90´s for recording masters of our 4 track demo-mixes. Still sounds fine today.

Yes!!! I picked Computer, reel to reel, VCR. I based it on the hiss. Zero hiss on computer, some on VCR, and more on reel to reel. It seemed to me anyways

I recorded a band on a Mitsubishi Hifi Vcr. Cd sold well, sounded great

Excellent video! I'm really impressed by the quality of the production! Just one thing, though. VHS was always called "Video Home System," even as far back as its invention in 1976. The "Vertical Helical Scan" connotation is somewhat false. VHS home recording wasn't exactly vertical (the heads of a VHS VCR run at an angle, and as a result isn't vertical), and while VHS VCR's did record video helically, the patents of this form of tape recording belong to Ampex (back in 1961). JVC would have had to pay Ampex royalties to use that name as a result. There are articles from Popular Science in November of 1977 that debunks the use of the "Vertical Helical Scan" name. That's just me being an OCD internet pedant though. This video was really good and informative otherwise. Keep up the excellent work!

VHS HiFi was very good for stereo and you can make a 6 hour party tape. Some JVC models had an improved system to get rid of head switching noise and those are the best ones for music. If there had been more development it could have been developed into the best analog recorder ever. I wish someone had done a format where all the heads were used for audio with no video track to maximize audio quality.

yo signed in just to comment, anyhow here's my 2 cents, cause I guessed them all correctly. keep in mind it could be lucky guess but here are the things that tipped me off: 1 / The computer: All around highest clarity and less artifacts , the swells on the right channel gave it away 2 / The Reel 2 Reel: The innate EQ curves due to the nature of the tape composition and recording/playback standarts cause it to have a shelf around mids/mid-highs (by todays standarts I assume [as in with the luxury of our contemporary technology as Hi-freqs would be more diffucult in the yesteryear to produce and distrubute] ) and their own characteristic saturation and compresssion. 3/ The VCR: Well kind of like the reel to reel with these differences, Higher speed = More high frequency content and the characteristic saturation / compression is different than that of the R2R. Let me know what you think!

Some Hi-Fi VHS models had a digital display that would show the line inputs audio levels while also allowing user adjustment.

Many years ago I hooked up my VCR to my stereo system. The sound that it produced was outstanding. People were amazed how I was able to connect it to sound system. However eventually I disconnected it. But recently I purchased a Super VHS VCR machine off of Ebay. It was not that costly. It is a Toshiba with the VU metters. The unit feels like tank. I mean this unit has some weight. The sound that this thing produces is amazing. It blows away the sound of my old VCR. It rivals if not surpasses my Grundig TS 1000 10.5 reel to reel. If you are into music and stereo HI-FI, equipment, maybe you should consider purchasing one. VHS tapes can still be purchased from Ebay. I have purchased many. Again the sound is awesome. And it adds flavor to the sound system.

I was born in 2000. I just plugged our VHS player into a TV because my grandma wanted to rewatch my parents' wedding. The sorry zoomers part hurts so bad:"D (btw I think you got a new sub)

When CDs first came out in the 80’s i did some work for the Hard Rock Cafe and they opted to use HiFI VHS for their house music instead of a mega CD changer. The sound quality was superior to CDs and rivaled 15ips Reel to Reel audio quality. We used them to mix on.

very cool. thanks.

Number 2 sounded best to me, glad I found it was reel tape. Back then they used really high end reel to reel recorders like Ampex 24 track.

I'm interested to try this at heavily levels, saturated, as I know how reel to reel behaves with the levels cranked but haven't tried with hi-fi VCR.

Very good my friend

Avid listener. I have an AKAI 747 R TO R. Then recently been seeing all the good things on the analog HiFi of the helical scan tape. I'm sold. My AKAI does not have this range especially at the VHS tape running at 6hr mode!!!! It is more compact so the Akai now is in the closet:( I'm listening to a playback of a Vollenweider album from days in grad school, recorded on Maxell XL. I'll miss my big old reel to reel for the visual but not for the sound of the hifi vcr!!:)

i recently recorded an EP completely analog by bouncing single tracks between a dolby B/ type II cassette and a HiFI VHS tape. was a lot of fun, and basically had no hiss because of the NR and VCR. cool video! subscribed!

Listening test was very insightful! I am actually thinking of using my old Sharp Hifi Stereo VCR for recording audio for various compilations. While first I was expecting VCR to be the highest quality of the three sources, my ears happened to be chosing for option 2, the RTR. Unfortunately, this is the most expensive option. I hoped VCR would win, but to my ears RTR did. More punch in the sound, in some way.

I had a JVC HiFi VHS machine back in the day and I used it often to record during the night from digital satellite radio. I was very much into trance music then and there was this particular radio show at Saturday evening followed by a six-hours of nonstop livesets from various DJ's. The trusty JVC recorded many of those sets in the middle of the night and always in magnificent quality. I then transferred the best sets to MiniDisc. I still have all those MD's, I also still have the JVC although the latter hasn't been used in years and sits in the attic - the last time I tried it worked perfectly fine though. And 20 years later I also find myself still listening to those MD recordings, some sourced from a HiFi stereo VHS tape, itself recording from a satellite receiver that got it's signal from a satellite 25,000 miles away in space. And it just works and it sounds excellent. And the music is terrific.

some of the first affordable multi track digital recorders that came out were the Alesis adat SVHS 8 track tape machine..I remember trying my Mitsubishi vhs recorder in the 80's it was a hifi deck but when only recording audio into it, it seemed to have some flutter in the sound... parhaps vcr decks got better over time because my deck was early on...

Nailed it.

I could hear the hiss on the R2R, VHS had some rf noise because of the (not recorded) Picture, but it did sound as good as your R2R.

That song is a bop. The claps go a little off beat thoughout but I thought it was groovy!

Nice job.

would earthing vcr help with hiss a usb when earthed comes out cleaner ?

Very Good

I recorded the a hip hop album on a HiFi JVC vcr back in 1998. That vcr had an independent audio recording function that allowed you to adjust the input recording gain. IMO nothing sounded better than the warmth of that vcr analog tape. Was able to reduce the hiss because of the independent audio gain function that vcr unit had. At the time my four track unit had stopped working and we did live takes of all the songs for the album. A Shure sm-58 through outboard compressor and slight reverb and the tracks straight through an Ensoniq ASR-10. All ran through a Yamaha 12 channel board right into the vcr. When you're a broke producer/engineer you get creative. Came out great.

I use JVC S-VHS to transfer old HI-FI tapes I made when I DJed back in the 1990s on HI-FI RCA decks. JVCs tend to have great sound and PICTURE as well. I started doing mixdowns HI-FI VHS From my TEAC 3340 tracks I was updating from 1978-1983. Then Computers hit in the 2000s and the better sound cards were hard to get and pricey. But the demos got did. HI-FI VHS was great except if you get the annoying HEAD SWITCHING NOISE. Around 100hz it's a low buzz. I'm sure there's a video somewhere on how to deal with it. Glad you see you caught on.

Use to use a PcM converter into VHS tape for earlier than DAT digital masters.

lovely irony that yr VHS deck is badged 'sony'.... this technique of recording stereo FM audio in the vertical guard-band was also used in betacam SP decks from around 1989 to 1993, when digibeta first came along.

they used to master CDs using a VCR with a Pulse Code Modulator. This was before DAT.

HiFi VCR uses companding circuitry to get that crazy high S/N ratio. So depending on the material you will hear the difference as there is a slight delay expanding the compressed audio on playback.

I also use VHS to for mixing or backups.

I didn’t hear THAT much hiss with the vcr, though. And I already knew that vcr’s could be used for music: Radio Shack used to put some music CD’s on vhs tapes at one of the stores here in Houston in the 80’s (before Stereo VCR’s were available) just to have music in the store.

Great stuff, man. My band back in the early 90's would "master" our 8-track recordings onto HiFi VHS. CD burning wasn't common place yet so we made due. Interesting fact about a feature that rose out of a need for backward compatibility, non-HiFi VCR's recorded their audio linearly along the top of the tape. The HiFi models would lay down their helical audio using one amount of current, and then the video would be laid down right on top of it at a slightly different angle and current, but ALSO create the low fi linear track for compatibility. When playing back, generally due to lower quality tapes, there could be drop outs in the HiFi audio. The VCR would detect this by monitoring an FM carrier, and if it dropped out the machine would instantly switch over to the low fi audio, then back to HiFi when the carrier signal returned. Sort of like an automatic audio backup system. It was probably not noticeable to the untrained ear. The engineers of the day who figured that out were just phenomenal.

Oh This is the thing i always wonder about it, Btw that track for comparisoin, will you release it?? this is really good

Cool video. FYI, the helical scan only applies to video. The audio track is recorded / played back linearly with different heads.

Great video. Grab yourself a better VCR that has recording level adjustments so you can up the input. I have a Panasonic NV-F65 which you can manually adjust the record level and it has VU meters as well. Old machine but built like a tank. Quality is better then my reel to reel.

It's nice to discover this new twist, if perhaps a tiny one, among the pursuits of home audio enthusiasts. After all, analog open reel has long made an impressive comeback, at least among some well heeled audiophiles who can afford to restore and/or upgrade their machines and who afford the now very high priced tape stock. To some degree renewed interest in analog recording is understandable, at least for recording live sessions, since arguably the best sounding A/D conversion two channel electronics can cost upwards of $3500. Indeed, two track 1/4" open reel can sound very good even at least at 7.5 ips, more so if gain stages are dc coupled, low DA film caps are used for supply bypassing, et al. I've never heard (nor have much interest in) today's premium open reel designs but a shoot out between one or more (e.g. a recapped and well aligned Ampex ATR-102 1/4" OR a "tapelifterless" Studer deck) and, say, a Sony or Panasonic VHS Hi-Fi VCR. While signal electronics build quality may likely be far better even in these stock open reel decks (lower distortion percentages?) , the H-Fi VCR may have wider and flatter frequency response, higher signal/noise ratio and far lower wow and flutter. Even more impressive is that both recording speed and tape stock formulation costs will be a mere fraction of what plagues open reel tape enthusiasts. Only open reel have rapid and precise razor blade editing and variable pitch control. But I submit that IF advanced circuit designers, like those here www.diyaudio.com ever got serious about revamping the R/P electronics of Hi-Fi VCRs (especially those with superior transport design and build quality), the VCR would become the best sounding AND most affordable analog recording device. And for starters there's certainly no shortage of VHS blank media on where it's being all but given away at ebay, craigslist and countless garage sales-many tapes with low mileage and oxide shed. Go for it!

Hai fatto un bel video.il VHS e' famoso per avere una qualità audio perfetta,su questo non ci sono dubbi,infatti spesso e' stato usato dagli studi di registrazione per le registrazioni di prova,con una qualità del suono paragonabile al master.

Do you have a video talking about how to put Reel, VCR, or tape deck in analog chain?

I liked the vcr honestly

As designers know sound quality of line stages can be audibly improved by swapping better quality film caps for dc blocking/signal coupling and supply bypassing. Dielectrics like polypropylene and polystyrene and yield lower signal absorption and thus less waveform distortion. These mods can and should done in VHS HiFi recorders

I used to use a hifi VCR alongside 4 and 2 channel tape recorders in the 80s. My VCR was relatively rare in having manual record level and metering. Some VCRs were not hifi, because they used a low speed linear track. Mine offered a spec of 20 -20K and 90dB s/n.

Interesting stuff (the subject as well as the music), thanks for doing it. I am quite surprised at how good the VCR sounds. Gonna go dig around and see if there's more VCR mixes available....kinda curious to hear someone's 100% DAW recording mixed to a VCR and see what that comparison is like

The VCR most likely has auto gain control (AGC) which is why you hear more hiss, since it’s pumping up the gain on the lower levels. If you added more gain ahead of the VCR, like you suggested in the video, that would just effectively compress your recording.

I used to use an HQ VCR for stereo bouncing. At that time I had a DAT machine, and later had both MiniDisc and DCC. The VCR sounded great, but my favourite was the DCC.

Good video! Sounded obvious to me which were which, but that being said, a VCR is a poor mans reel to reel to me. If I want analog, I will be reaching for my HIFI SuperDrive VCR with the appropriate line level input.

Great pal !!!

What would be the best hi fi vcr to record audio on? Do they all record at the same high quality or is there a certain model that is better?