If it was vecna, that means he had access to a gate, if he wanted to leave the upside down and enter the real world why would he go back to the upside down
@@kadens1903 I did. That is why it doesn't make sense to me that vecna was in episode 1. If it was vecna, he would have initiated his plan to end the world immediately while he was in the real world. He would get to the real world, kidnap some kids and go back.
@@MahammadAhmedThat's what saved Max in season 4! Her song Running up that Hill! So it makes sense that Will would have survived by singing his song, just like Max hearing hers!
Fun fact: when billy was saying it was all for eleven, that was vecna talking about the upside down. They even showed the clip of Billy saying it. Eleven said it was always him. Vecna truly has been around since the beginning. So that was not vecna. But he was the one who brought that demogorgon into hawkins.
@@jezoa BECAUSE you know how in season three eleven gets that weird flesh thing in her leg well that took elevens power and then gave it to vecna so vecna took her power but only at the end of season three
@@kylegraham7363 they call it the demogorgon because of eleven using the demogorgon game piece from DnD to show thw monster hunting will, Eleven probably calls it that because of them (despite them not refferring to the game piece as demogorgon)
@@kylegraham7363 she didn’t remember Henry/001 during seasons 1-3, dr.Brenner made her remember them. So she didn’t know he was behind it. Also they didn’t have a name for him, they named him vecna in season 4 because of a character in d&d, but technically they didn’t know he existed yet.
The Season 1 demogorgon had access to portals and took its prey into the Upside-Down to feed on them later. The ones at the Russian prison presumably didn't have access a portal and were probably not acting normally. Those were desperate, maybe even driven to madness. We can't use them as the reference.
yeah, and not to mention the demogorgon in the russian prison were being experimented on for military combat purpose, hence the aggressive and animalistic in nature because they are being modified to literally kill.
@@tookool4skool98 in the beginning of making the show they probably wanted to give the demogorgon powers so they made that episode to that shows them and then after that episode they scrapped the idea because it would be unbeatable if it had the powers so they scrapped it and hoped everyone would forget that small thing 🤷♂️
@@SavouryGalette Yup. Nonsense if you ask me. Like what would Vecna earn on killing Will, a random kid? He was building his power. There was just a single known demogorgon in Hawkins back then and it just wanted to hunt.
@@kingbacon2937 That's a valid question, what does Vecna gain from kidnapping Will instead of killing him on the spot? And also, the silhouette they use as "evidence" is humanoid, and that's their proof. You know what other creature has a humanoid shape? The Demogorgon, and the silhouette actually looks more similar to a Demogorgon than it does Vecna.
@@kingbacon2937if it just wanted to hunt though it would still beg the question "why would it kidnap Will and Barbara?" the other Demogorgons were extremely aggressive
@@jontybott1490 hopefully, I am remembering this right, but Dart was the slug Will coughed up in the final few moments in S1- after the gate was already closed. So Dart must've been disconnected from the hive mind because of that
A comic book was released about Will’s perspective being in the Upside Down. It confirmed that it really was the Demogorgon instead of Vecna. The reason why it didn’t eat Will after bringing him into the Upside Down is because immediately when they arrived, Will fired the gun he was holding at it causing the Demogorgon to disappear to somewhere else. The comic shows that whenever the Demogorgon showed up looking for Will in the Upside Down version of their house, Will would hide under his bed. And he would still use that gun to defend himself. The comic says that Will lost consciousness when the Demogorgon found him at Castle Byers. So maybe at that point, Vecna probably made the Demogorgon put Will in those vines at the library. And since there were other victims there at the library, maybe the Demogorgon only puts victims in there when they are unconscious and only eats people that are still alive and trying to resist.
Yeah people are overthinking this, it’s obviously just a writing mistake, they were trying to create tension with the telekinesis door opening and if you watch the opening scene it’s so obvious it’s a demogorgan because the noises it makes
@@Lukefiore fr like- Vecna wouldn't start making screeching noises at a child to scare them, especially if he was a human at one point. That would downright humiliating 💀
@@johnnie2388 inconsistent writing; they could have written demogorgans to have telekinesis but then removed that because it wouldn't have been as good for the story nor would it be as good to make animal-like demons have powers that it most likely wouldn't know how to use them so easily with their mindset.
I appreciate the theory, but it's only a theory. Season 1 demogorgon has not been acting consistently to the ones later in the series, considering it took Will to the upside down without killing him.
In addition, Barb was brought to the upside-down pool before being eaten by the demogorgon. Only after their connection to the upside down is severed like in the end of s3 do they feed without first bringing their food home
It's the Demogorgon. If you look at Vecna, he has a normal length arm on the right and then his left one is longer with the claws on it. The Demogorgon has both long arms. Which is how Joyce describes him to Hopper in S1 " It was almost human, but it wasn't. It has long arms and it's like he has no face" When she said "Long arms" she motioned her arms to show it was both too. If you look back at the Demogorgon, his head has always been like that when it's mouth was closed. Side note: You gotta remember, they always had the whole plot planned, the timeline or storyline they wanted. Which means they wanted 001 or Vecna to be a twist for a later season as they had to introduce this world and the characters, while keeping it creepy/scary. To build up to the finale, bc the show had to go with the flow. If that makes any sense lol
And the very popular scene in Season 4 with Max running in the Upside Down,Max survived because of her favourite song and Noah was singing ‘Should I stay or should I go’ in the Upside Down.
@@fuzzy_258 Well I don’t have to rewatch it to tell you that Vecna has a normal hand on one side. His character was HIGHLY inspired by Freddy, to include weapon. So even if the silhouette has 2 hands with long fingers, it still could not be Vecna. I hope I didn’t come off as disrespectful, not trying to come off hot lol.
@@DiegoAlvarez-tx5hh i brightened it up and saw cool one, The left (to our left) hand is longer then right (to our right) hand, the right hand appeared a human arm, does this mean its actually vecna?
@@lerlan1066 I also brightened it up. It appears that the right arm is long comparative to the body. Which is a trait of the Demogorgon. Plus, Screenrant claims it’s uncharacteristic for the Demogorgon to kidnap but it did it to Barb. If that wasn’t enough, Stranger Things was originally meant to be one season.
Still breaks my heart to see Max in that condition in the hospital,her words about "being afraid and not ready to die" it's always in my head everytime I see something related to Stranger Things,she didn't deserve all that suffering.
Pause it right when the shadow figure appears, and you can tell it's the demogorgan . Both of its arms and hands/claws are really slender and long, and vecna has one big ass forearm, rist ,and hand/claw and one regular arm
In the comic though where you see season 1 of Stranger Things from Will’s perspective, it’s revealed that Will was brought to the Upside Down by the Demogorgon.
Reeaaachhhhh. It’s obviously a demagorgon. Vecna was most likely thought up right after Season 3 when the Duffer Brothers realized they needed a villain with dialogue and motivations. They did a great job connecting him with the existing lore though.
Meh...I wouldn't consider it "great". I mean if u REALLY stop and think about the timeline...so Henry takes eleven down to the basement and shows her how to escape, then he murders everyone and then what? Brenner goes on training eleven like nothing happened after she wakes up from her coma, AND THEN she opens the gate? If she sent Henry to the upside down wouldnt the gate open right then? It did when she did the exact same thing to the demigorgon in season 1..I get what they had to work with, I just think it was a tad lazy compared to how amazing the writing normally is
@@kyleferguson4236 Yep they didnt do a good job cleaning up their retcon. A lot of grey areas now with no explanation. I feel like they definitely didnt have the vecna story planned from Season 1 like the video is saying......no way.
@@rossothecrimson7 lol of course they didnt, but the fact that they were STILL able to make me set aside the shitty retcon is a testament to how good the show actually is
Y’all forgot one thing, Vecna has control over everything known in the upside down, as the sole creator of the creatures created down there. Since that’s the case, theories about Will being possessed by Vecna can be true in Season 5. In the first episode, if the demogorgan wanted to, he could easily just kill Will and eat his ass up. But it didn’t. This could be because Vecna was controlling the Demogorgan. That could be why the demogorgan placed wills body in vines to keep him restrained to the wall for Vecna to use him later as his own pupil. And, when Hopper and Joyce rescue him, it could have been that them rescuing Will foiled Vecnas plan to come to the over world which is why he made 4 sacrifices. Also, in Season 2 or 3 (I don’t remember sorry), Will was possess ed by the mind flayer and you guys saw how much that impacted Will. But, they once again found a way to save Will which again foiled Vecnas plan to come to the overworld. What I’m trying to say is, Vecna sees Will as his own Pupil because of his sadness and his anger. This could allow Will to try and attempt to help Vecna come through to the overworld and basically cause Mass extinction. Vecna could most definitely possess Will as most people would want Max to get better which would make less people focus on Will, allowing him to escape and joining Vecna, Just a theory tho! 👇 if you think it’s true
Definitely just the demogorgon with its mouth closed. Yes I understand the telekinesis argument but remember this was before the Duffer Bros. knew the show would explode it’s entirely possible the demogorgon had minor telekinesis powers as canon back then before Vecna was a concept
@@kylegraham7363 well in the scene where Will goes to his house and looks at the door glass and a shadow of a figure appears I think that's vecna or it could be the demogorgon and vecna used his telekinesis to unlock the door
You're just theorizing too. Yes, the show was supposed to have only one season, but who said Vecna wasn't a thing by then? Lol. And no... that is not a demogorgon
100% vecna is controlling the upside-down, looking back you can see it so clearly, even Will's favourite song coming on while Joyce was trying to contact him 👍🙂😉.
There's a theory that the only reason the Demogorgon didn't immediately devour Will is that it was sent into the real world by One to hunt Eleven, and it captured Will thinking he was El as they were both small and had a similar build.
still with an animalistic instinct he should've devoured will right then and there, how this mind connection thing between vecna and his monsters work is beyond my comprehension.
@tannu kashyap You're ok with comprehending magic powers, another dimension, and the fact that music can stop magic. But you draw the line at a hive mind
It was the demogorgon. The whole point was that the demogorgon was supposed to bring Will to the upside down. That’s why it didn’t kill him immediately. It did the same with Barb. Brought her to the upside down version of Steve’s pool to then kill her in its own domain.
Stranger Things was developed to be an Anthology series, meaning season 1 is one and done and the next season would be a completely different story. Due to the overwhelming popularity of the story and especially the young case, the Duffers changed direction to continue the story. This means "Vecna" wasn't thought of yet.
when hop and joyce find will in the upside down he has a tentacle in his mouth, the demogorgon kidnapped him for incubation, and the upside down is a hive mind, the mind flayer might've made the demogorgon kidnap him instead as some strategic move
@@tannukashyap8311 incubation is putting an organism that needs fostering to grow until it can live on its own, in this specific case, the demogorgon put a baby demogorgon/demo dog slug in will so it could grow in a safe, warm environment, this is the slug will vomits up later at the end of the season. And it’s also probably dart.
@@user-hl3kq8ov8m The mindflayer and Vecna aren't one thing at all. The mindflayer is basically parasitic particles that existed in the upside down long before Vecna arrived. Vecna finds them and controls them using his powers. He's also obviously swallowed some as well as he's part of the hove mind.
The demogorgon didnt kill Barb immedietly, why would it have done that with Will? Also, there are ALWAYS clock sounds in the upside down or when something related to the upside down is happening. Also, when the thing was on the road, IT WAS LITTERELY A MAN IN A DEMOGORGON SUIT. Sorry for spelling and everything im on mobile.
You couldn’t see the demogorgon tho anyways it was too dark. They could easily change the story and say it was Vecna. Not that hard. And there’s always clock noises in the upside down Bc of Vecna lmao
@@gameznvlogs3790 my guy you hear the figure make demogorgon sounds when will goes in the shed and it gets him its very obviously meant to be a demogorgon
The clock sound is a gong-like sound . Not a tick tock. I don’t think it is a secret clue , though. I think it’s just a recurring sound in the series. But super cool idea to have Vecna come back. He can time travel perhaps?
@@kimberleymonroe1157 while it won't be right away, the Duffer brother's have said they are taking July off, and will be in the writing room first week of August. Plus they've said they already have an plot for season 5. So with all that in mind hopefully a year to 18 months. Hopefully. Just my opinion.
Lmao stop. Vecna wasn't even thought up during season 1. The DB had originally planned it to be a limited 1 season series so it needed a definite beginning, middle and end. It wasn't Vecna.
they planned it as an anthology, yes, but during development Netflix execs asked them to explain more about what the upside down is. The video is correct, this is on record, Google it. also also, the graphic novels were allowed to be developed with a single caveat: don't do anything with subject 001.
@@shiverfan4867 not saying I believe this theory but it isn’t uncommon for character designs to change over the years, especially if the original design barely made an appearance. Just look at characters like Voldemort and Thanos that went through noticeable redesigns once they became a significant figure of their universe. So who knows, maybe that silhouette was Vecna but then they decided to change his character design later.
@@thomasjeppesen3055 then why did they change it then? The demigorgon looks just like that silhouette with it's more skinny and agile looking. That's obviously the demigorgon
@@cashbrady4074 Because the writers have openly said they haven't. Quote: "No scenes from previous seasons have ever been cut or re-edited and they never will be."
It’s a cool headcanon I suppose, but when season 1 was made, it was intended as a standalone mini series or an anthology. They hadn’t even created vecna yet. We can talk about design and sounds all day, but this alone should debunk this. When filmed, the silhouette was intended to be a demogorgon.
Exactly. Their original plan for the series was like a Black Mirror or Twilight Zone, until they realized the popularity of the show and characters. Then they decided they needed to continue the stories of Hawkins moving forward.
@@MttSuddarth Yea no. I'm sure that's just press. Duffer Brothers said they created Vecna from the beginning? Duffer Brothers said ST was originally intended as a standalone miniseries? Two contradicting statements. Also both reported by Screen Rant, one in this short, and one in another article. One of those had to come first tho. And the former was just convenient retcon. I don't have a problem w Vecna. Totally love him as a villain. But he was not created at the beginning, simply because he was never intended to be
@@MrNoIee the Duffer brothers have admitted recently that they have, although it’s mostly been cgi from what they said, like the demogorgon’s attack on Brenner which was made to make it more apparent that he survived and changing Will’s birthday. These sounds were there originally, all the grandfather clock sounds from before season 3 were simply stock sounds that they used to intensify the horror, before season 3 a lot of sounds that weren’t considered “crucial” (like the demogorgon’s yell is crucial to the demogorgon) were simply stock sounds, the most apparent one is the now infamous “dark souls backstab” sound that they used several times. It was only in season 3 when they actually started planning the future seasons that the grandfather clock sound wasn’t a stock sound but rather custom made and used in scenes that seem to hint at vecna, as well as that one scene at the end of episode 6 of season 3 that uses a piece of Phillip Glass’ music, which they would continue with in season 4. In season 3 the music represents the mindflayer righting a perceived wrong against himself, while in season 4 the music represents vecna as an Icarus style character, someone who got too close to the sun.
The dude who made this video seems to forget that the Demogorgon can close it's mouth, It also has huge claws on both hands rather than just on the left
I doubt this was the plan, it feels like a half hearted attempt to retcon the series "ohh yeah, I forgot we did that, it works I guess". There's no other mention of vecna in the first season aside from a silhouette that matches a Demogorgon more than it does vecna. That is not the same noise as the clock in season 4, there are distinct differences between the two. They clearly play the Demogorgon noise right before he turns around to see the creature indicating that a Demogorgon took will. As for how he escaped, Barb was about to escape herself but couldn't do it in time due to losing her glasses. Because she didn't have her glasses she couldn't find the ladder in time and thus couldn't climb it fast enough. I understand that people might say that "Vecna said this as an explanation". What they're missing is that as a writer you can look back and see what you've created and add on to it. Without writing a gap for vecna from the beginning (either by leaving clues or presenting odd interactions that become clear once vecna has been introduced), feels tacked on and cheap. As if they had no season 4 villain and had to improvise The series is good don't get me wrong (I binge the season the day it drops), but you're giving them far too much credit by saying it was all planned, I can tell they plan each season individually, however they do not plan between seasons
Hell, they even admitted they forgot Will's own birthday that they created lol. It's definitely inconsistent writing, and Vecna wasn't even a concept back then. Edit: just so you know, I'm agreeing with you. Hope you got that.
@Dio Brando I was explaining how will might have escaped the Demogorgon. Since barb had time to flee after the Demogorgon took her it's plausible to say that will could have as well. The only difference is that he wasn't in a pit or visually impaired. I think the Demogorgon takes people to the other side to feed on them, other wise will and barb would have straight up died where they were taken. It makes no sense that the Demogorgon was being piloted, never anywhere else is a Demogorgon piloted, or hinted at being piloted. They've always stated that they are a hive hind (which in of itself is not true, the bats would have conveyed to Vecna that people were in the upside down). My best guess, the Demogorgon was standing because it was taking stock of it's surroundings, we've seen it stand before in the Buyer's house
I feel like it’s going to be the Chucky thing (remember, Stranger Things has a bit of every horror franchise in it) where Vecna will try to transfer his consciousness to Will.
That makes a lot of sense to me. Can't wait to see what happens. Hope they don't do an Avengers time travel situation in final season, despite time travel confirmed for playing a major role. :/
Barb also got kidnapped because the demogorgan does not eat it’s food right away. Also, the demagorgan does have telekenetic powers, it really just dosen’t need to use it that often.
“so why didn’t it devour will right away??” you know that’s a really good question.. i guess when the demigorgan got barb, it was like “WELL I DIDNT KILL ONE KID WHATS THE HARM IN NOT KILLING THIS ONE RIGHT AWAY EITHER” but to be fair it’s a little strange how it did kill barb but not will 🤔 maybe vecna’s got some telapathy with the demigorgans and told them not to kill him (don’t really know why) or will just got really lucky 🤷🤷🤷
Bro, that's why Will feels connected to Veccna. He didn't kill Will because he felt how different this kid was. He was smart, empathizing, and different in ways more than we've seen.
Yup this is pretty much confirmed to be the case after Season 4, Vecna sent the Demogorgon to scout the lab and most likely kill Eleven, but he found Will instead
@@INURWALLL The lab was relatively near Will’s house, and Eleven managed to wander all the way over there through the woods, so if she could, then the Demogorgon could too
I re watched all the series last week and when i “re” saw the taking of will in the first eppisode i saw the “thing” in the street and thought “hey that looks a bit like vecna”. But brushed it off 😁🤷♀️ maybe i was right. 😁
It very very clearly is a Demogorgon. Yes Vecna was always the plan, but he didn’t have enough power to get himself through the gates. He used elements of the upside down to gain access via gates. Have you actually watched the show?
@@membles69 which means he can also distinguish between eleven and will, then why did he kidnap will instead of eleven? or he just used his power to open the lock and could do nothing more than this thus needed help of the demogorgons?
The figure was a demogorgon… they also have lengthy fingers. And that “clock” sound was just the chain and bike pedals/wheels spinning. If you have ever fallen off a bike or just hopped off of it quickly and let it go you would have heard that exact same sound
Thank you Screen Rant, for making wild and often inaccurate conclusions, much like Game Rant, consistently. This one was pretty tame, but god damn have I read some blatantly wrong articles.
Will-draws the shadow monster Henry-draws the shadow monster Joyce-“he’s a sensitive child” Victor-“he is a sensitive child” Will-*does his eye thing like eleven* Henry-*does his eye thing like eleven* Everything starts to gel a bit But wait-will didn’t mention seeing vecna or anything that talks in s1, so maybe that was not vecna,dang this is all confusing
But then again they didn’t know vecna existed they didn’t even name anything vecna yet so will could have been saying vecna was a “Demogorgon”, especially since he didn’t see him in season 4.
Aah theory is pretty crazy and but never say never who knows maybe it is. But i dont think its actually true. Will only draws Shador monester because he was possessed by Shadow monster aka Vecna. So he see everything's what vecna see. And his eys are moving because still a little part of shadow monster is in him. And idk we alreday know that actually boss whole series is Henry so i think Will its just will the wise who can see evrything and feel Vecna.
When I saw the first episode ever I was like “VeCnA” without even knowing very much about it only watching some videos about it online so I really do support this theory
Fun fact: in some scenes in season 3, while the flayed were going to the mind flayer, you can hear vecnas clock ticking in the background. for anyone that wants to watch it’s season 3 episode 8
This is good theroy but why would vecna go through the gate then go back it doesn't make sense and if it was him he could have fine eleven earlier in the series 🤔
Alright i got a theory behind this but first heavy spoiler warning for S4 Pt2 In part 2 we learned vecna was the mind flayer, in hoppers storyline we find a sample of mind flayer ash in an incubator when hopper asked the Russian about what happened to the ashes after they find the incubators broken he said it went inside them, them probably being the demogorgons, this could mean that vecna took over the demogorgons (similar to billy), my theory is that vecna took over a demogorgon right before season 1 and used it to play it safe with 11, what i think could back up this theory is the S1 demogorgons behavior, the S4 demogorgon was absolutely wild and when i watched it i thought to myself “S1 would go very different with this guy” and thats when i realized the S1 demogorgon acted more like vecna than the demogorgon we see in S4 some examples of this would be the S1 demogorgon simply walking towards will in the first episode or the S1 demogorgon waiting patiently at steves house in jonathans picture or the fact that he just sent will to the underworld for no reason, this is not something a demogorgon would do
I immediately started rewatching earlier Stranger Things seasons after watching season 4 and once I saw the door lock be unlocked, I immediately thought it was Vecna. The silhouette was definitely not clear enough to conclude it was a demogorgon. I think it was Vecna for sure.
The ticking sound is used constantly in the first season to build tension... that's just the awesome soundtrack though... nothing to do with vecna... unless vecna is there when hopper is searching for the bug in his tailer aswell... lol
We hear the Demogorgon's unique growling noises multiple times when Will gets taken, and it's been known to take it's prey to the upside-down to feed on them when possible(Barbara). Barbara almost escaped from it when she was taken to the upside-down before being yanked back into the pool. Will however, was right next to an open door and had a gun with him, so it looks like after he plane-shifted he just shot the Demogorgon and ran(which is what happened in the comic)
Dude look at the arms. It's a Demogorgon. If Vecna was able to or if he wanted to, he would have come through a gate ages ago, rather than sending Demogorgons, Demo-dogs, and the Mind Flayer. It didn't kill Will immediately because it's a TV show. If it killed Will right away, there'd be no suspense and no story.
Vecna controls the demigorgons. If the Duffer brothers have had him in mind since season 1 then it makes sense why Will wasn't killed and was infected with the Mind Flare.
Idk why people keep saying Will was abducted by the Demogorgan. They said several times that Will was good at hiding and that he escaped the Demogorgan and hid in the upside down.
I agree in a later episode when Nancy comes across the portal in the tree in the wood at night for the first time she yells for Johnathan but it shows she’s alone even being in the woods they would hear each other but veccna wanted her to go in seems like he’s been toying with them for a while
There's no way they had proper plans for vecna, the way they try to retroactively fit him in is what bugged me the most about season 4. 11s amnesia was just lazy writing trying to fit vecna in with 11.
The Duffer Brothers admitted they’ve been going through past seasons and “George Lucasing” details here and there, essentially revising some things. That clock sound could be one of those changes. We have no idea what they changed unless you have older unchanged dvd or blu ray discs of the show
It makes sense cause demogorgons don’t have telekinesis and you hear a clock as well, they’ve apparently had the whole show planned out since season one and even filmed something for this season when they were filming season one idk how the filmed something but they have had it planned out so who know?