Vegan Propaganda | Aaron Bastani Meets Earthling Ed | Downstream 

novara and ed might be my dream youtube crossover ngl

I met Ed a few years ago at a screening. He is such a kind, placid, gentle, and loving person.

Mental to me how so many people on the left continue to be selective about the exploitation they oppose. So good to see these two coming together!

The left is painfully silent on the issue of non-human animal rights, all while talking about equity and justice and the inherent rights of human animals, so it's great to see veganism starting to make guest appearances - even if very brief ones - in left thinking. Thanks for this.

It cannot be said enough times “There is no such thing as a humane slaughter house” The 🐄 🐖 🦆 🐠 🐓 need you to go Vegan today 🙏

Looking forward to this already!

Earthling Ed is incredible, great interview 👍

I can't disagree with Ed at all, including his comment on vertical farming which I've been saying for years to others. We have the technology to stack farms upwards and to grow huge amounts of fruit and veg in a far more eco-friendly way, such as soil free growing. We also need to significantly reduce animal agriculture both morally and in terms of climate change. As much as I'm big on the moral side, we can't afford to ignore the climate aspect as that affects all life on the planet. So much that was said during this interview is not only fair and too the point but his points have scientific backing. It would be great if Ed would be able to do a talk at my university, as I feel this could help many to at least understand the environmental issues, economic issues, social issues and hopefully moral issues. If I could get Ed's details, I would happily organise the talk as part of my Natural Sciences society as the society president and open the event to all at the university.

Our family Christmas table had, as our centrepiece a beautiful, red, roasted; local, organic: free-gifted Squash 💖🌱🎉

As a long-time vegan and leftist, this was good conversation, though took until the last five minutes of the video for the crux of the problem to come up: subsidies. Wish that was talked about more, in both the animal liberation movement and leftist media, as part of anti-capitalist economic analysis. Subsidies breathe life into the industry, ensure it's fail-proof and make typical demand and supply "laws" completely defunct.

What an amazing interview. Thank you.

you don't need to explain yourself eat whatever you want to eat having a choice of being vegan vegetarian or meat eater is your choice. you don't have to feel guilty because you have a vegan in studio.

Sadly, and I say this as a vegan of 43 years standing, Ed Winters is very confused about the RSPCA. He says here - and in the book - that the RSPCA is a "paradox" when, in reality, they are no such thing. They are a traditional animal welfare organisation. They are not a vegan org and certainly do not stand for animal rights. His confusion is fuelled, I believe, from the fact that they have the phrase "prevention of cruelty" in their title. The real problem is that the younger vegans' main claims-making is *also* about animal cruelty, as opposed to animal liberation and especially not rights-based animal rights. Some of Ed's supporters were recently up in arms cancelling their RSPCA subscriptions on finding out that the org is not a vegan one. Never has been, never claimed to be a vegan group! Sadly, we have a new generation of welfare vegans and that ain't veganism in my book. For example, one of the founders of the vegan social movement, Leslie Cross, declared that the vegans were "on the side of the liberators,`' and "we are not so much welfare as liberation." Let's be clear, one job the RSPCA has taken on is trying to take the animal cruelty out of standard animal use practices. They want to get rid of the cruelty, not the practice. So, yes, they have guides suggesting how things should be done in slaughterhouses, etc. Ed Winters says that the RSPCA should be like the NSPCC and really tackle the cruelty issues. However, the NSPCC does not have the task of supervising the slaughter of millions of children on an industrial scale. They are not like cases. Animal rights is not about lowering levels of animal cruelty or animal suffering, it is about abolishing animal use. It is about regarding other animals as rights bearers and seeing the human use of other animals as rights violations.

Here to see Ed :)

Thank you! 🙏🙏🙏

On the conversation of the RSPCA their main principle is the reductrion and removal of cruelty to animals. But Ed (and other vegans) think killing the animal is cruel when the RSPCA does not. the death of an animal can be cruel if it is done unethically for example stabbing an animal to death or something. but anything under legal remit is not considered 'cruel' in the eyes of the RSPCA. So I don't think Ed's point really stand. Cruelty is a subjective value judgement but for the RSPCA it is only allowed to stay within the legal understanding of the law.

“We know for sure vegetarianism is much healthier than an omnivore diet but veganism?” “Well in the blue zones they’re 95% plant based.” I’m fairly sure that stating you ate a blue zone diet, that is meat only once or twice a week would offend vegetarians much less vegans. This bloke is hilarious 🤣 I mean get your point across but use actual facts man not exaggeration, misinformation or cherry picking.

My shih tzu is a wolf stop hurting her feelings.

Go Vegan 🌱 No Thanks I like my sex drive and mental health in tact . Good bye

Don't like labels of any sort ... like 'vegan' ... don't eat much but not meat dairy etc for various reasons ... started eating goats cheese ... as I think we are meh and i consume myself heh

WARMONGERING, KILLING IS OK NO MATTER WHAT THE THING IN LIFE IS PEACE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE WHEN WILL NYOU LEARN LISTEN TO TARIQ ALI ON DEMOCRACY NOW

Really interesting discussion, but I feel they're avoiding a huge class issue here, the other side of factory farming is it is allowing poor and working class people access to a wider range of food at affordable prices than ever before. I'm not taking sides, but I would have wanted this discussed, it takes a degree of privilege to not rely on Turkey Dino's as fast and cheap protein for a family dinner and a luxury of time to prepare dahls and alot of vegan dishes. You could argue for a tax on meat to subsidise vegan alternatives for instance along with public information and education in schools as a progressive policy for instance to gently prod change, but looking at the time & money involved in things, you need an alternative to Mc.Donalds and Turkey Dinos that is as common and beats it in price/ease.

The day we get the prices of all kinds of quality, nutritious and delicious plant-based substitutes for meat and dairy below those of the animal-based ones, we all win.

Woah. Awesome to see Ed being invited on as a guest

Wow, excellent discussion. Never seen Ed before but so very, very impressed. I've not eaten meat since the early 1980's and recently stopped eating fish, too. After listening to this, I think I will try giving up dairy, which I thought would be impossible for me. Ed, you are very inspiring. I've ordered your book already.

Finally, novara talking about rights of all sentient beings. inject it

A friend was talking about cooking a chicken in an outdoor oven. I asked if it was one of the chickens he kept in his garden and he was shocked that I'd suggest he would eat one of his pets!

Great conversation. Thanks to Aaron for his honesty.

FINALLY!! animal rights is stepping closer to being mainstream!

Speaking as a 56 year old who stopped eating meat at 16 and dairy at 44 ... I can honestly say I've never seen such a thoughtful and wide-ranging interview on the reliance of animal products. Fantastically well done to all concerned - Aaron, Ed and Novara Media - superstars!

Our current method of food production is the elephant in the room of climate change discussion and one that requires our urgent attention… thanks Ed and thanks Novara

Aaron, I also had GI issues initially when I transitioned and started consuming chickpeas, lentils and soy as a main source of protein. This can often happen if the gut microbiome is "out of tune" and not used to handling new and fibre-rich foods. There's a great book on this called "Fiber Fueled" (yes, more "vegan propaganda 😊) by the gut expert Will Bulsiewicz, which basically walks you through how to identify food sensitivities and slowly (re)introduce these high-fibre foods while avoiding the unpleasant side effects.

this piece has really made me think, I had never even considered the exploitation of humans as well as the well-known exploitation of animals.

I've come across Ed several times (as a non vegan). He's an excellent advocate for shifting to a plant based diet, which I am putting into practice. Starting with eliminating dairy.

Really thought provoking and challenging but enjoyable conversation.

You can't wait until you are 55 to avoid bad health outcomes, as Aaron seems to suggest a few times here, any more than you can smoke until you are 55 to avoid lung cancer. Sure it can help a bit, but eating good wholesome food for a lifetime - just like not smoking ever - will produce better results for you after you are 55. The sooner you get started the better off you will be.

Never heard about this guy, He seems very knowledgeable.

Excellent chat, great to see Ed on to have a long form conversation.

Thank you. What a great interview. Not only informative, but a really enjoyable 90 minutes, which went past so quickly.

Stoked to see two of my favourite thinkers discussing such an important issue! Eating animals is the epitome of capitalism and speciesism! Socialism for all animals! Come on Novara, go vegan 💚💚💚!

Not heard of Ed before but glad I viewed in and will now view his postings. Went Vegan about a year ago and have occasionally lapsed but back on track. This helps. Like the fact that he held to account 2 institutions - RSPCA and Philip Schofield!

Finally! Ed was one of the main reasons I went vegan, great conversation.

Many years ago, a friend did an Art College project in an abattoir. He did an impression of the grin that he said was stuck on the workers faces. The fixed grin was some sort of compensation for how they felt within.

Omg can’t wait!

Great interview! Aaron asked intelligent questions and seemed to challenge Ed in a way that he doesn't normally get challenged

I am delighted to see this thank you Novara! Thanks Ed!

Nice, not vegan (yet) but been watching a lot of earthling ed recently. Looking forward to watching this

1:16:37. this is a wonderful part of the discussion about how we no longer respect animals. Very powerful.

Reasons I don't support them: 1) I phoned about a frail stray cat I thought had been caught in a trap (his tail and lower spine were terribly curved, and his back legs were horrifically weak - turned out to be from the emaciation thankfully, although they wouldn't have known that). There is an RSPCA center JUST down the road from me, if I could drive I could have easily reached it - but I can't due to disability, so phoned them to come to me to take a look at him. They were very unsympathetic "Stop feeding it. It'll go away" is all they had to say (not that the cat was a pest to me, and I tried to make it clear to them I just wanted him to get help. The last thing I wanted was for him to 'go away'). I told them how friendly he was and how I thought he could be a lost pet which badly needed medical attention and to have a scan for a microchip - they just did not want to know. I stressed that I thought this cat would die without intervention. Again - all I got was 'Stop feeding IT' (I did not. I phoned Cats Protection later, and they disagreed with the RSPCA. They put the cat on an adoption waiting list for me once it was established he had no microchip, and nobody claimed him when I put out posters. They told me from day 1 to keep feeding and sheltering him, so I absolutely did). I later took in this old cat myself for the record (he was impossible not to fall in love with), and he did live a very happy final 5 years of his life with me before he peacefully passed away in my home from cancer. I'll just never forgive the RSPCA for behaving the way they did - I never donated to them ever again. I shudder to think how many other animals they turn away and even encourage concerned callers *not* to help the animals in need - so many other animals out there I'm sure would've been less fortunate. 2) Many years before this, when I was a teenager - I did adopt a kitten from their center. I loved him, don't get me wrong - his health would not have affected my choice to adopt him. However, the RSPCA *knew* he had a health condition (a bad back leg, which would be forever arthritic), and they *chose* not to inform myself or my parents. As time went on - we realised he had a bad leg, which was prone to getting worse in the cold. So we kept on top of it (and assumed RSPCA had no idea - it was fine by us). But, then his 'foster mum' came in weeks after the adoption to inspect our home and how the kitten was getting along with us, and she slipped up: "How is his le-" she immediately stopped herself, as if she suddenly remembered we weren't supposed to know about it. *That* was what greatly upset me. My guess is the RSPCA feared disclosing that fact this kitten already had a health condition would've made him less adoptable - in our case, it wouldn't have mattered one bit. But, if this kitten had been adopted by someone who *was* bothered about his health? Who knows what might have happened, he could've been given back to them - or worse, abandoned in the streets outright. RSPCA *should* have wanted all of his prospective adopters to have all the facts and make an informed decision before committing to him, in order to minimize the risk of the cat being passed around from owner to owner (again, or worse). It also would've helped if we knew about this from the start, unfortunately my dad did not take out pet insurance right away (since he thought it was a low risk healthy kitten). We narrowly afforded the full price vet bills on an insured kitten - other adopters may not have been that fortunate. 3) I phoned them when I witnessed a man striking his dog. He was clearly abusing it, and wanted to make it angry on purpose (perhaps for fights was my guess). I was also concerned because this man lived a few houses up from my nana (who had dementia), and I already knew this same dog had been coming into her garden and had been barking aggressively (which was a threat to my nana, because on occasion she would forget she had no pets and would assume this dog was hers. The council/social services wanted her to live in her own home at this point in time rather than a care home, which should have been fine if not for dangers such as this). Once again, the RSPCA did nothing. They accepted my report - nothing happened to the man. Nobody came to follow up on the case. The dog? One day, it just disappeared. I dread to think what happened to it. I know it wasn't the doing of the RSPCA or the police. However, this man did get another dog - an Alsatian. And, I was mortified when I learnt via social media that this same man trained this dog to kill someone else's cat. He just let the new dog onto a woman's front garden (which she was there - no shame) and had his dog pick up her poor cat an maul it to death. I feel so very angry thinking about how the RSPCA COULD HAVE stopped this if only they took my report seriously. This man should not have had any pets. 4) Political reasons (which is perhaps what this stream will be mostly about). The 'R' for Royal creates this need to ignore all of the cruelty the royal family inflict upon animals. Many native wildlife (owls, foxes, hawks etc) die at Sandringham alone each year. Their game keepers prize the unnative game birds above all else (and of course it's extra ridiculous how they kill native wildlife - just to 'save' birds the royals and their ilk will only kill for fun later on anyway). This defeats what the RSPCA are supposedly all about - 'preventing cruelty to animals'. It's a double standard. Not to mention how trainee RSPCA inspectors get taught to kill pigs, cows and chickens using the same techniques a slaughter house technician would. I like to think that even people who eat meat would agree that's very bizarre. Their excuse is 'It's just in case of an emergency where livestock need to be 'euthinised'' but...they essentially do work for slaughter house employees and either electrocute a cow in the head or snap a chickens neck so the meat can still be used? That tells me they prize animals as property more than anything else. In an 'emergency', you should really only be concerned about euthanizing an animal humanely. Who cares if the meat can no longer be used and profited from? That should not be the RSPCA's priority. The way they protect a private company/farmer's profits/property above what's actually best/most humane for the animal in an emergency just reminds me how much the non-profit ultimately have in common with the police.

I think I manifested this collab! Can't wait

With regards to the gastrointestinal issues, they should clear up after a period of adjustment, but if not, you may have some underlying GI issues like SIBO or leaky gut. So it may require further treatment. Antibiotics, stress, alcohol, fried food, and processed sugars can really ravage your GI system, so it is unable to process the extra fibre when you go vegetarian or vegan. Gojiman has a really good RU-vid channel that i found really useful.

That was an excellent discussion

ooh yeah really looking forward to this :D

the conversation about taxing food was interesting - but is it even necessary when subsidies cost billions to artificially decrease the value of meat and dairy already? could these subsidies simply be removed to have an impact on consumption choices?

Good questions Aaron. You arrived at what people wanted to hear but your lead up was original and drew people in who knew already about Ed and Veganism. Well done.

Fab to see Ed being interviewed. If we're really going to call our positions intersectional we have to address the fact that 'livestock' farming depends on the exploitation of the female reproductive system. Ed puts the plant based diet and rights for all species over in such a calm, gentle and persuasive way. I'm totally in awe of the way he is able to speak about something he's passionate about.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a good example of what happens to you if you work in a slaughter house 💁🏻‍♂

There is no greater ethical concern between an ape or a mouse

All decent socialist would be vegan, I thought its like day follows night

I've been waiting for this crossover for ages! Great video, Ed is a brilliant spokesperson for the movement and thank you for covering animal rights on Novara

Yes!

I had the RSPCA knock at my door once asking for money. I asked them if they ate animals? They both replied yes. So I followed with, ‘Don’t you think it’s ironic that your wages come from people’s donations to help save animals, which you then use to help harm animals?’. They didn’t stay long.

Would love to see you guys interview Alfie of HITC Sevens. He's a football RU-vidr, but has some good political insights into football.

Great interview. Aaron, I recommend you read the book Fiber Fueled: by Will Bulsiewicz

Respect Ed. I'd like to know how he isn't always depressed. It's so depressing what is happening to animals and he is in the middle of it all the time.

It's nice to hear from a host that is honest with a guest who believes that the hosts behaviour is not ideal. It's rare and refreshing.

What makes it morally reprehensible for humans to eat meat but not for other animals to eat meat? When it's boiled down, surely humans are animals and no different? Genuine question, as Ed talks a lot about meat eating being immoral but so far I haven't seen him explain why it's immoral. It's just assumed that everyone understands this

It's a brave step - criticizing the RSPCA, it's like criticising the Queen, but I am in agreement. Both parties deserve scrutiny ! As for the Queen- who is a benign and loveable leader, but she fully supports horse racing with it's inevitable and predictable fatalities- no person nor society should be exempt from criticism.

ed is so well spoken, so informed, and has such a calm voice its really hypnotizing

Philosophy UNDERGRADUATE..... Ouch

I love Joaquin Phoenix's reply to the usual vegan-haters rhetoric: “We are all hypocrites in some ways. We all struggle with what the right thing to do is and we make mistakes." Personally I don't believe any vegan pretends that they being on this earth doesn't cause inadvertent suffering but we are really trying to lessen it...and a first good step is not being party to the intensive farming industry that breed, fatten and slaughter 70 BILLION animals a year. (In the UK that is a whopping ONE BILLION animals bred, fattened and slaughtered). Then there are our seas and oceans being decimated by hoovering up TRILLIONS of fishes, to not only feed us humans but our farmed animals and farmed fish. As a vegan - for the last 40 years - of course I care about all animals, that animals die for plant crops too....the fact remains though that HALF of all that grain growing in UK fields is going to feed livestock. The conversion rate is poor: it takes 7kg of grain to produce 1kg of beef, 2kg of grain to produce 1kg of chicken meat. World wide the poor go hungry because a THIRD of the world's grain that should feed people is being usurped to feed livestock. The poor unable to pay the price that grain now is because the rich feed it to livestock. Go vegan - what's not to like? Re the Rain Forests burning The sheer madness - besides the callousness, the disregard for the people and animals who live/d here - is that this is being done to supply us, the rich with beef. With soya to feed our cattle. And leather to make all those bags, shoes, belts and even couches/sofas that we demand. Put simply, millions of indigenous animals will die so a non indigenous animal - cattle - will, quite literally, be grown as a 'crop' to be 'harvested' as a 'product' to sell to those who can afford to buy the beef, the soya to feed intensively farmed cattle, pigs and poultry, and leather goods. As I say sheer madness. It is like a tap running and overflowing on the floor. It really does not help by mopping the floor if you don’t turn off the tap.

also i love aaron's impatience towards the idiocy of people thinking veganism compromises masculinity 😂

Agriculture is the reason why British colonialists took diseases to Native Americans and other cultures, but didn't catch any new illnesses themselves. The indigenous people didn't partake in animal agriculture, so didn't have any mutated novel infections to pass back.

Now the New York Mayor is Vegan, You should be the Vegan President!

Considering how many profound practical changes are needed on the way that knowledge and work are structured when the vegan cause is understood, it is not unlikely to be very shy in considering oneself as a socialist... Socialism with zero understanding of the functionality of the vegan cause is just another form of tyranny based on ignorant standardisations and distorted knowledge that profoundly damages life whilst telling the story of being at service of the greater good. We've seen that same kind of ideology expressed as fascism, as communism, as empires, as religions, as science, as corporations, ... when the ethical base is biased the structures built on top of it are always biased. Socialism is essential but it cannot be realised without a clear view on unbiased ethics hence it cannot be real socialism without considering the rights and dignity of every living being hence of the living as a whole.

My beautiful 27yr old vegan daughter is single - I want you as my son in law!! 😂❤

It´s a crying shame, eats meat, chicken and eggs, knows it causes great suffering, and still does it. Climate change is going the same way. It´s not about left or right, it´s about moral fibre. Aaron is not in a very strong position to criticise others on a You Tube channel. God bless you Ed !!

The problem is the industrial production of meat and dairy. People should renounce ( in wealthy countries) to eat meat for a year or two. That will put a big stop on the industry.

Ed is a fantastic speaker and representative of the vegan community. Great interview from Arron, politely playing the 'every man' asking prevalent questions non-vegans have. Two legends! Also, can't believe Ed's only 27 and has managed to create so much.

This interview is really interesting and has really made me think about my own food choices. But one thing I'd be really curious to know - I have two rescue cats and as we know cats are carnivores. I would love to know if Ed or any other vegans have suggestions for how I would be able to continue feeding my cats ethically in the current environment. Is it simply a matter of buying local/free range and preparing their food myself? I would genuinely love to know this - though that said I'm only halfway through this interview so perhaps they will cover this!

Checking the release date of this video to see how long I've been vegan for

Do they know they have to peel chickpeas?! Please peel them!

What the hell is going on with these random camera zooms. For example 1:07:36

Wow, 2 of my favourite social critics. My evening is set!! 😍

Speciesism is why we choose some animals to eat and not others.

good discussion - i hope ed isn't a peter singer fan though lol

Ed you’re the best and were a guiding voice for me when I started going plant-based, I wouldn’t of been able to do it without a fellow rational voice amongst the defensiveness of society x

I'm vegan and work for the RSPCA, I'm scared lol

Fantastic interview. Do joey carbstrong next

Is it healthy to put my dogs on a vegan diet 🤔

I think krisnamurtu said ‘as long as we have abattoirs, there will be wars’. Humanity is all about exploitation. And we think this is ‘civilisation’?

My two favourite english people talking with each other

Ed's just got another follower. The thing with Twitter is... well, the name says it all. It's a global graffiti wall. It has its place but it also has its limits. I don't know if there is as much conflict between meat eaters and vegans as there used to be. I can understand the vegan opposition to meat eating because there is a clear moral issue, so there is reason to want others to become vegan. What I've never understood is the resentment (often angry and aggressive) of meat eaters toward vegetarians and vegans. If you're a committed vegan, it matters to you that others eat meat. But, if you're a committed 'just-take-the-horns-off-and-wipe-its-ass' meat eater, the fact that some people are vegan doesn't impact you whatsoever. I am not a vegan or even a vegetarian so there is some point in me subscribing to his channel. I agree with what they both say about "echo chambers". I like to nurture friends who disagree with me. Whether my point of view has any impact on them is for them to decide. My interest is what impact opposing views may have on me.

find Ed's refusal to define his politics further than 'on the left side of the spectrum' really disappointing. As a vegan marxist, I see veganism as fundamentally a moral opposition to exploitation; I think to hold that moral position and not also be explicitly anti capitalist is at minimum incomplete and makes his arguments weaker. He seems to occasionally lean in that direction when he talks about the profit motive as a problem for animal welfare, but a more consistent political stance would make him more coherent.

I’ve witnessed cruelty first hand when working in a vets. Animal’s brought in a dreadful state’ beyond belief!!! The smell of this poor dog was wrenching” and they couldn’t do anything other than a warning. The dog went back to living in the wet’ it made me think about the RSPCA and the fact they have No power’ to do anything. Guy who brought it in should have been nicked!!!!

Isn't soya generally grown in Brazil on former rainforest land? Hemp is the milk for me, Ed. It's grown in the UK so smaller carbon footprint.

brilliant interview! Ed is an absolute hero!

I see an Ed video, and I watch.

Thanks!

I have been so excited for this crossover - and I really hope Ed can come back on soon! Cheers, everyone 💚