@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics idk but it sure acts like it might or something. I have no other explanation for how it was coming on and off sticking the key in and out when I never lost acc
Interesting one for sure, damn worn out switch. Good work on tracking it down. FYI with DC amp clamps that use Hall Effect (I think all), you have to zero them in the exact angle, plane, azimuth, roll, yaw etc.... to actually zero them. Unlike zeroing an AC clamp which just takes out the meter noise. Check it out, zero it in DC, then rotate it 90 degrees, twist it, roll it etc and watch the values change as it's measuring the surrounding magnetic field. Usually not that important when measuring full amps, but very sensitive when doing mA. And like everyone else already said, PTC are self resetting fuses, poly fuses etc... Opposite of NTC resistors / current limiters. Also, to look for a warmer fuse, as long as everything is the same temp and no sun or anything else adding heat, narrow the scale on the IR cam to get better resolution. Looking for a slight temp change when it's auto-ranged to cover 35f to 90f isn't too helpful. If that camera has a manual scale setting, which it probably does.
Old cars just drained the battery when the lights were left on. Then, the buzzer appeared, connected via a diode between IGN and the headlight power. This buzzer or beeper was later connected to or integrated in the BCM, so your car could audibly warn you for all kinds of things. The beep evolved into a chime. Soon after that, dark forces in the car industry decided that the chime sound should have a more 'luxurious' ring to it, so it was decided to keep the amplifier of the car radio awake while the rest of the radio appears to be off, so the chime could be sounded via the car speakers. The amp is to be switched off only when the BCM was pretty sure no more chiming would be needed, because amplifier circuits need half a second to start and we cannot sound only the second half of a chime sound, of course. Stereo effect and loudness or frequency could be used to indicate the direction and direction of an obstacle detected by the parking radar. All in all, a very good idea to use the radio amplifier for chiming. ...inadvertently creating yet another convoluted way in which a parasitic drain can occur when the shutdown sequence somehow gets messed up by whatever. There's cut wires and non-factory-looking tape under that steering column. I think, the ignition lock broke. (key can be taken out in all positions). Some hack mechanic or diy-savvy owner changed something in the wiring so that it would not be so bad if the key would be pulled out in the 'acc' position, so the lock does not have to be changed, inadvertently creating the situation whereby the radio's amp is kept alive until the battery is dead. Maybe the BCM's main feed is wired into the IGN circuit, so it won't have the power to tell the radio's amp to switch off. I think that switched power for the radio is only controlling the music part of the radio. It won't switch off the amp if the BCM told it to wake up earlier.
I would love to learn more about EPROM and board level electronics! Thank you Jake for putting all this hard work in time in to your videos. We really appreciate it very much!😊
Nice! 👍😉 This video proves why rechecking everything and verifying is needed before saying, that radio is guilty.. 😂 Great video! It will be cool to see next part! That PTC is soldered on dashboard PCB.. Usually, that fuse is renewable after cooling down.. For radio there should be backlight dimmer input line. Probably, faulty ignition switch is somehow affecting that line and causing that behavior and radio is just confused.. It will be great, to see backlight, ignition lines in one oscilloscope shot.. Strange thing is, that radios, usually, can work without backlight signal.. 😕 This situation is confusing, indeed, because, radio should stay turn on..
I'm wondering about those splices you found in the steering column. It could be some third party add-on causing some of the strange behavior. But I agree with changing the switch and re-eval.
I think it was a recall of sorts. My 02 ram has a green wire ran under the dash outside of the harness too. Haven’t checked the column to see if it had a the pink wire ran though but I found the green when I was putting a new radio in.
PTC is positive temperature coefficient fuse which is circuit board mounted and normally non replaceable, but I know you could easily if it went bad. It limits current based on heating.
It's a thermistor. PTC thermistors are resistors with a positive temperature coefficient, which means that the resistance increases with increasing temperature@@engeneer_ru5827
I think a combination of saving space and making non serviceable. Its cheaper from a manufacturing standpoint to wave solder a chip on a board rather than 2 female connectors to hold a fuse. I do believe they have a certain amount of cycles before dying. Just like ford BCM FET transistors that can handle an overcurrent for so many cycles then bricks module. Ask F150 plow guys who splice into headlights for light bar. @@engeneer_ru5827
@@autodiagytPTC increase resistance as they get warmer, used as protection for overcurrent and self resets. NTC is the opposite, resistance gets lower as it gets hotter, they are used for inrush current protection
Replacing known bad parts is a prudent move. Since your findings weren't what you would normally expect, you need to rule out the possibility of the bad parts skewing your further test data. Perfect call, as usual.
love that amp clamp,when zeroing , keep meter in same plane and close to wire under test gives accurate readingsI will try to find the eprom reflash as I too hate that little annoyance when turned on to volts or amp ranges. I also always cut off the finger stops on test leads! able to use the probes close together. Re-flash easy and successful using CH341 programmer
Just did a Nissan Murano 2009. Suspect Fuse had tailgate, mirror, rain sensor, HVAC, rear seat, key buzzer on its circuit. NO pinout diagram from Nissan or AllData for the Connector that the fuse fed power to. Removed fuse, volt test on Hot side was 12.....Cold side was 1.0 Volts - BAM. Aftermarket Remote starter/alarm disconnect, Parasitic draw gone, Cold side fuse socket 0V. TLDR = Check the fuse sockets BOTH sides with fuse removed. Stay gold.
I think why it's not making sense to you is because the door is open. The signal sent to the radio is going to vary based on whether your door is open or not. Radio stays on when you turn off the vehicle until you open your door. Key presence and ignition position are not tied together in a way that makes sense because no one programmed the PCM to have any combination with key not present other than ignition off so it does not know what to do. The status will depend on the order of operations in the programming. Key not present and ignition in accessory position and door open does not have a specific instruction written into the PCM. I believe in the bus communication, Key presence is a has one address, ignition position is another address, and door position has another address. With the door closed, you would probably have different results. Think about how you can't get a ram truck with a dial shifter to move when the door is open. Same idea. I can't keep track of your ignition positions in the video, but I think if you turned the truck to off and pulled the key, positions are start/run/off/acc or start/run/acc1/off/acc2. I believe steering wheel lock is disengaged in run or start and run positions only but that's not within the scope of what we are talking about. Basically, all these functions that were controlled by mechanical locks and contact switches are now done through a win module or a hybrid ignition cylinder somewhere between mechanical ignition and win module. You have to think in instructions sent based on positions, not mechanical functions and contacts made based on ignition position and remember that other sensors and switches are going to affect the system response to key position. Additionally, you may be dealing with communication on 2 different busses. Canbus is bidirectional, but linbus is just going to give instructions, but the device will not report back. That's why we don't get power window motor failure messages, because the linbus just tells the motor what to do, it's not listening for a response from it. Ignition position, key presence, and door position are likely on a linbus which only sends commands but does not listen for responses so there is no error code when the key is removed, the settings are just as it was last told to do. The ignition, if a win module, may be a gateway that converts lin to can and outputs a can signal. The cluster and/or the radio will be a gateway. That's how I understand it anyway, I could be wrong. I hope this makes some sense to you or at least sends you down a track to making it make sense in your situation. You might be too early for a lin bus but it could be some primative version that uses the same ideas, but not the communication network specifically as the technology was kind if changing at that point. I think lin stated in 2002, but when it started being used in dodges, I don't know. I didn't look at the wiring diagrams for this truck specifically so I am kinda spit balling ideas.
My guys turn Chrysler keys all way back to acc parked in shop overnight and kill batteries all the time 😅especially when there there to diag a code and kill codes 😵💫
Very common Jake on Chryslers and Jeeps. The lock cylinder is bad. I had this many times and yes after a while you'll figure it out very easily the culprit.
Great video and diagnosis. Sometimes you do have to fix known issues to keep going. Obviously, the lock cylinder is bad and the ignition switch is not working properly either. It would be interesting to know if there are any other problems.
Ignition swithch. You saw ACC is all the way back and off is in the 2nd pos. It's the ign. switch, because that key should not come out in all positions.. Just subscribed. Thank you. This was/is interesting...
The ZERO button on the current clamps must be pressed AFTER installation in the nearby working position. This will eliminate the influence of the magnetic field of the earth and nearby objects.
Interesting problem! I agree, fix related parts that are possible culprits and broke, reassess, and try again. By the way, you might want to change the spelling on the title, it's easy to fix, and it will come up with a google search more easily. Parasitic.
I owned a 2005 ram and yes i could turn my truck what I thought was off but it was the acc position. But when it was off there was no draw. Maybe your cust just wore the switch out doing this too much. When ever i do draw tests i just open the doors and close latches. Then hook meter up and wait til it goes to sleep. Then do check fuses with another meter.
so i also don’t have much luck with those thermal cameras in the fuse box . only time i have seen it work the ambient temp out side was bloody freezing 🥶. wow what a fault and what an ignition switch 🤣🤣🤣🤣 was explaining to a buddy friday on a car we looked at . can issue but there were 2 issues and i said i can’t properly diagnose the second issue until the first one is fixed because it is causing me not to be able to diagnose the second issue properly and i don’t want to guess
I have a 2003 ram that you have to mess with the key to get the radio to play in the ACC setting. I guess it better having it not working then draining the battery.
Clamp meter hint: When zeroing a clamp you need to do it right next to the cable you're measuring in the same orientation. Any change in orientation or location will pick up stray EMI and throw off the reading.
I only ever had the thermostat camera be able to tell me a part is still on once. That was an alternator that was really hot . And I've done a ton of diagnostics.
An amp at battery voltage is almost 15W of power. In a small area, 15W is going to generate some heat. But, that 2mV drop across the fuse at 1A is only 2mW of power; that's not gonna make that fuse warm up much at all.
Could be worn or damaged key lock assembly. Depending on how many miles or stop and go useage the switch could have wear in the area of the contacts. Sometimes you can clean the lock assy but that usually doesn't last to long. The fix may just be a new switch and lock assembly.
So what I've come to use as my approach is amp clamp, if active I use thermal as first step, newer cars it seems to be network alive so thermal imager not so helpful, if not active I go in line with my curien because my iPad won't go to sleep and records min max forever as long as it's charging
I believe those big heavy gauge wires coming out of the steering column go to the blower motor. I had a similar set up on a similar era ram truck that I was replacing the HVAC actuators on earlier this year. Don't know the reason why it was done but it kind of threw me for a loop for a bit because they go all the way to the other side of the dash and there are no connectors to unplug it.
Whatever works is the method of the day!! What sux with the fuse method is when the draw is not on a fused circuit. In my opinion after 45+ years that parasitic draws can be some of the toughest problems to solve.
Well worth rewriting the eeprom there's loads of settings in there such as meter timeout shutdown, back light timeout, dc mode at switch on, the way it autoranges and other stuff I can't remember now makes a nice meter nicer mine is the mastech ms2108a it's the same meter, sorry i meant voltcraft vc330
just had this ! couple of weeks ago dodge ram 1500 and iam in the uk so these are rare it was the 1st id ever worked on, no dip beam headlamp control module ,no radio, bonnet light power ,and dead speed sensor on diff casing , and once fixed i kept leaving the radio on because it let me take the key out in accessory position ,thought that it shouldnt have ! it always showed the clock though when i left acc on ,european cars dont have the accessory position after the off position so we just turn all the way anti clockwise and thats all off
thing is all methods of drain chasing have pitfalls you need to have several options and chose according to how much drain you have and whether its constant or the dreaded intermittent drain ,thermal imaging can send you straight to the issue saving loads of time but only if you have a very high drain, a clamp meter changes its reading if the jaw doesnt fully shut or its axis changes typically when theres not much room or you cant get the meter to settle into a position where you can read it , the best way for smaller drains ie less than about 150ma is a multimeter in series with the battery but you need some spare meter fuses when someone tries to crank it or the alarm gets triggered and wakes the whole car up , gets expensive with a fluke if you are distracted alot at work ! if you have a intermittent drain then you need data logging or peak hold but you would have to test over days for each master fuse then each sub fuse that runs of that draining master fuse , my experiance most intermittent drains have been new or "rebuilt" alternators with a faulty regulator pack (a mix of still run and charge just fine or the max voltage starts climbing too high as it warms up)
This happens on very old and well worn beaters. People that also have a ton of weight on their keychain. I'm an automotive locksmith so have I seen this a lot. Usually the key and wafers in the lock wear out together. If you had a new key made by code it might not work due to the lock being worn. If you just rekeyed the lock it might not work due to key wear. It's probably just the key and cylinder but if it has that much wear it's not a bad idea to change the electrical switch as well. If the guy just buys a new cylinder and key it won't match the existing door lock. You need to buy a keying kit or have an auto locksmith key the new one up to match. I think you said it was an 02 so it shouldn't have a transponder. They started using them in 05.
You need to get a flir e54 thermal camera the sensor on those are better in show a 1/4 of a degree and show a better image the only drawback is they cost over 5,000 bucks
on some gm uk vauxhall cars the ignition switch had a small switch that detects when you insert key this not the ignition switch itself it is meant to power up accessories bit like fiat cars allowed you to turn back the ignition switch one extra turn to turn side lights ,normally yo know as if doors open it will start binging if key is slightly in ignition switch allowing radio to run without ignition on .ie sticky switch in barrel wd40 or replace spring jams
I love the very professional way he said ( hell I don’t know throw some parts at it) lol I’m kidding, this guy is very good at what he does obviously. I definitely learned something
ptc is kindsa a weird slang for a resitor with positive temperature coefficient so like a thermistor but in reverse, now that infers that its a temperature sensor and it can be , but in this context its a self resetting thermal cut out with a soft lazy overload characteristic so it works well with devices that have varieng peak loading or just used for its self resetting nature its a device that looks like a disc ceramic capacitor although sometimes rectangular and is soldered in
The aftermarket wires under the steering column are a recall fix that Dodge did due to high amp draw of the A/C blower. Seems the original wires were too thin and they overheated and melted, creating a fire risk. They fix the recall by replacing the thin wires with a heavier gauge of wire, from the fuse box to the ignition switch and back to the blower motor.
Jake just a QQ on 23:13 when you are using the test bulb(s), if the voltage was to drop then it means what? Voltage bleeding into this circuit from other circuit or possibly shorted to positive or negative. Am I correct on this? As always thank you sir for posting videos with full of knowledge. :)
Very helpful and super interesting case study ! We are not only gaining practical skill but are learning (encouragement) to be resilient in our battle !! 👊🏼
@@nservice1625 I’m not sure what the claimed range is but I’ve tested it to be accurate at 30 but that was fresh batteries and as they age or drain it will change how accurate it is.
This was a very common problem of chrysler products of this vintage. You dove in deeper than i ever went though. Accessory is rotated all the back. If I recall, it takes a good 25 min for these things to go to sleep aswell.
@@autodiagyt I definitely remember 25 min being the magic number on these dodge trucks, I belive it was the BCM or the seat belt module that would stay awake that long.
@@soptea I’m confused. What would be the purpose then? There is a chart posted by power probe that gives the fuse type and rating with voltage drops to know about how much current is flowing using the voltage reading. I’m just not seeing the point in paralleling your meter in current mode.
@@autodiagyt It was just another idea for acquire new information that could be useful ...no current flow on fuse no reading on ammeter ..maybe it worth a shot
Not really the right attitude to have. I work for myself and will do what I want when I want. If you’re not here to learn or positive then please just don’t watch.
It's maddening to me that when you need both hands to do proper testing or to perform whatever task you're doing you don't use a tripod or head mounted gopro
I could be wrong, but I’m just throwing this out there for the hell of it: Maybe the input from the key-in reminder switch (which is part of the ignition switch) is used to wake up the radio. That’s all I can think of, as to why the radio goes out when the key is removed. Weird problem either way
