I think the warmness we all love in the blackface amp here are those Oxford speakers. Both amps sound really great . Thank-you for doing this video. It has been a huge help ~
The Black Face has that sweet glassy sound. I've worked on black face and silver face amps and always find myself loving the sound of a black face. They just have more head room and that glassy, crisp sound that I love. The silver face just seems a bit darker to me. I say this but I have a 79 vibrolux that will be pried from my cold dead hands. I love that amp. Every time I think about selling it, I plug into to it and the thought of selling it disappears quickly.
They are both great amps. I have a black face and have played silver faces. The blacks have a deeper fuller sound to my ear, and are my favorite to play my strat through.
Great video. I'm interested in a Silverface, but this now has me understanding a little of why some prefer the Blackface (warmer but not neccessarily better)
A really terrific and comprehensive A-B comparison. Very useful info. I love them both, the blackface is a touch warmer in the mids, but I think the difference frankly is those wonderful Oxford speakers. I'd like to see the same comparison with humbuckers too.
Your playing is amazing. My bud lent me his Vibrolux for a couple of gigs and I fell in love with the tone.. practically pedal free the whole nights.. So he wanted it back.. i needed to do some research on how to get my Deluxe to at least sound a little better and more like the Vibros.. where I found this video.. I just let it play cuz I liked the soothing sounds.. great job..
There is such a slight difference between the two amps in this video. I backfaced my Vibrolux reverb, replaced anything microphonic and recapped all of the electrolytics. I noticed a huge difference in tone, clarity... Everything. I suspect mine was due to the old rotten parts. Lol Great video! thanks for sharing it!
@@pabloivanmalina8925 They definitely are point-to-point wiring. It was done on an eyelet board, but all the connections are still wired point to point.
I liked the Silverface more the higher they were turned up. Blackface clearly more scooped in a really nice way. Silverface had a sweet midrange thing going on and a rolled off top end. Amazing comparison! They sound exactly like I imagine a Blackface and a Silverface to sound
I have never sold an old Fender Amp without regretting it. 67 Blackface Super Reverb, 65 Blackface Bassman with small 2-12 cab, Early 70s Pro Reverb. An early SilverFace Princeton Reverb. Also a great MusicMan white tolex with rare two 6L6s - one of the last ones made. I liken the MusicMan to the Blackface Bassman, but with a very good reverb.
I have a 62 Princeton, 65 Deluxe Reverb and a 67 Super Reverb, but I've become convinced that I need one of each model. They're just that good! Killer playing and tones mate, cheers!
Had a 65 VR. Recently came into a 73 VR with some OEM emi speakers pulled from somewhere and holy moly. (I use for mainly jazz, reggae, and funk, some rock) Promptly sold the blackface for 4x what I bought silver for. Much happier having the $ than the blackface.
Both sound good. The blackface is a bit more organic and sweeter sounding to my ears. The silverface sounds stiffer. I'd bet the voltages are higher on the silverface, which would be typical of that period and which would make a sonic difference. There are also a few component differences between the BF and SF. I'd take the BF one all day long over the SF one. Thanks for the comparison!
They both sound great. The 1964 BF wins for me due to it's sweeter and deeper all-round articulation, balance and tonality, along with fatter roundedness of each note giving the sound more dimension - and that airy reverb is superb.
@@michaelcraig9449 The term cork sniffing actually was when they would place a cork from a wine bottle inside a guitar case to absorbe unpleasant odors ' I have seen people put them in the sound holes of acoustic guitars and in the back of amps ' this was a common practice in the 50 and 60's playing in bars filled with cigarette smoke. Chewy woody ? I've never heard of that one before ' do you care to explain?
@@sagestowlsreviews2096 after hearing this... i want a vintage vibrolux. 🤣🤣🤣 I also Love SRV, Hendrix, Gilmour and Mayer... do you think that the vibrolux can nail those tones too? Clean and overdrive... Does It takes pedals well? Sorry to bother you with the question
@@JuanBluesMan Vibrolux Reverb is a great amp. It is between a Deluxe and a Twin. It is close to a Super Reverb or Pro Reverb, but has its own thing. I would say it is sweeter sounding and breaks up a bit sooner than these two, probably due to its smaller transformer and a bit lower wattage. Most all tube Fender amps take pedals very well. They sort of embrace the pedals, but still retain their basic sound character. Blackface will serve very well for overdriven tones as well. Silverface breaks up later so it stays cleaner at louder volumes. It can be modded to blackface specs though. It will definitely do the SRV, Hendrix, Mayer thing.
I prefer the SF due to the speakers. I like to mic it with an e906 hanging so its 1.5” in from the edge of the left speaker, so it’s not far from the center of the actual cabinet. Right at the edge of breakup these amps are as good as it gets.
Nice comparison. I did a similar comparison between my stock '65 Super Reverb and my stock '72 Super Reverb with similar results. The '65 is juicier and warmer sounding and maybe a little honkier. The '72 is a little more aggressive and rock 'n' roll sounding. Both are great, but slightly different. I've always viewed the Vibrolux as a scaled down Super Reverb.
I am lucky to have a 68 Vibrolux Reverb original, Ijust need to learn to play like you. I like the black face a little bit better and then sometimes I like the silver face a little bit better. Both great amps.
I might prefer the silverface. It seems more sparkly and detailed. Maybe it has something to do with being more familiar with the silverface sound. Both sound really good.
Great job on this! Both sound great - which is vibrolux sound. So close it becomes a price issue, so the silver wins for me. Worth twice the price? I have, and love, a silver '79. When i play at the local pubs i might get jumpy if my amp is goin for 3000-4000.
@@sagestowlsreviews2096 oohh i understand. yeah well there's no loss there because the silver sounds pretty much identical, you said there was just only one subtle difference between them?
Thank you for an excellent video. A black face is on top of my GAS-list. It has a fuller tone and more of the shimmering tone. Unfortunately I missed out on one of the reissues last week. But time will come, I hope.
noice.. like both of them.... i have a 76 silverface for over 15 years now. (has also gigged) i had to change the main tubes once, and its a bit too heavy for my taste, but soundwise i can t complain. i also like that line out recording jack , for goin into soundcards or daw, or also sending other gear through the amp for beeing recorded.
I enjoyed it very much. Good comparison video. 1, It was easy to understand by comparing similar phrases in clean tones. There are other videos that include effectors, but the tone of the original amplifier is lost. 2, The setting commentary on the telop without the talk is very good. From the beginning, if you can continue to talk for a long time (a very common pattern), regardless of the content, you will immediately stop watching. 3. It was good that the comparison by the looper was very easy to understand. Even if you play the same phrase, there are slight differences in nuance (because you are human) You can calmly judge this comparison because it mechanically repeats the same thing. 4, It is also good to compare by changing the amplifier setting from the middle. A comparison of the effectiveness of each is helpful. 5. Easy to see with fixed screen. It is very good that the screen does not shake due to strange camera movements. 6, the speaker exchange comparison was also very good. I haven't seen many comparison videos like this, so it was helpful. 7, The length of the movie is also good. I didn't mind even if the length exceeded 10 minutes because 1 to 7 were substantial. I was able to enjoy it to the end. Please let me know some of my wishes. 1, I want you to display the telop of the commentary for a little longer. Non-English-speaking people like me stop and check the image several times. 2, I think that it is easy to understand if the current setting of each amplifier is displayed at the bottom of the screen. 3, I wanted you to do a comparison in the normal channel. I think there are individual differences It was very helpful overall. Thank you very much. I am grateful. at the end. Thank you for creating "audience-oriented videos" like yours. I don't know if my feelings were conveyed well in unfamiliar English. We look forward to delivering good videos in the future. From one viewer in Japan.
in general if i had to choose one it would be the BF as I find them more versatile, but here I like the SF better...it has this gorgeous rubbery, metalic shimmer to it when combined with the reverb is really dreamy..Silvers can have a really boomy bass that you may have tweak and tame a bit......This blackface sounds more balanced sonically, but not as smoky and three dimensional as others i have heard and I have owned and played a fair number.......I own a 66 Blackface Vibrolux reverb that is a beast....I have owned a 71 Vibrolux reverb that was also great....It really depends on how you play, what styles you play, what guitar you play, tubes, speakers......pedals etc.... actually , i have gigged with a silver and blackface amps together. They sit in the mix differently but combine to make an even better sound...the silvers have this cool smooth, metallic shimmery thing going on which can be really beautiful when combined with the right touch, guitar etc......you play beautifully by the way....that bit at the end moved me brother!!!
@Ian Snyder, Good info. I'm getting an amp built for me based on on a Vibrolux and trying to figure out which circuit to choose. Any suggestions? (I like sparkling clean at volume to keep up w/a heavy handed drummer). I have a (reissue) '65 Twin Reverb, but I can't turn it past 2 w/out the audience holding their ears. It don't start to sound good until at least 3-4, so the Twin Rev. isn't working anymore
@@monto39 Silverface all the way. Your speaker choice is crucial. There are plenty of yt videos to see and choose. Big iron tranny too. Have bassman transformers ( I'm not sure if you'll need the output and power as well) as they will give you much more headroom. Here is the secret GET A NOS 5751 pre amp tube for V2 (reverb channel) 75% gain of 12ax7 and more headroom and...much sweeter and full sound imo! Don't get new ones. Get a NOS 5751 : RCA, Sylvania, GE. I prefer RCA they are lively and have a lot of sparkle.
@@kendrickseeber8706 As the man with the orthopedic shoes once said, "I stand corrected." My mistake - I didn't finish watching the video the first time (too tired). When I watched the rest yesterday, sure enough - there it was. I agree with you at least in part. The Oxfords sound better than the Eminence but personally, I couldn't really tell a difference between the amps themselves. My 66 year old ears may have something to do with that. What surprised me was how the owner wouldn't even let us hear the '64 through the Eminence speakers, saying it was so bad he wouldn't do it. Jeez - how bad could it have been?
I have the SV- the only thing about it on certain gigs is that the mid "midrange" can get a bit aggressive-but that could be because I have 2 Celestion 10s in there-although I have the original speakers
nice- there are so many variables- the silverface through the blackface speakers sound almost the same as the black face. Pots can be 20 % off so setting at the same levels dont always mean anything. In the mid 80s I went from p[laying a 58 tweed deluxe to a silverface 71 super reverb and it was a challenge player wise. I took it to andy Marshall who would become THD so he could tweek it. I had no idea that individual pre amp tubes sound different even made by the same company in the same era- we switchted out pre amp tubes and he got exactly what I was looking for- I was amazed Good attempt I like the black face more but the silverface might be better given a chance. My 71 super reverb sounds way better than my 66 super reverb
Both sound amazing as does your playing.... I wish you had given us a shot of the rear of the amps as well as a shot of you and your great playing... So we're talking 2x 10" in each (?) I didn't even know there were Alnico Eminences out there... thanx and cheers
Thanks. Shot of the rear are in the introduction video. Yes, they are 2x10 each. Eminence still makes AlNiCo speakers today as well. Maybe some day I will make of video with me in it :)
People always get mad when I say this, but this is more of a speaker comparison than anything else. I would like to hear the amps compared through the same speaker setup. OR, switch between the two speaker setups with just one of the amps. But then the differences between pre- and post-CBS Fender amps isn't drastic. You probably wouldn't hear a difference through the youtube filter.
You are right. It is an old truth that a speaker influences sound more than the actual amplifier. Just watch the end of the video. But having said all what you said, still you can hear subtle differences when you compare the two amps through the same speaker. And it is not just a sound thing, but a feel/response thing too. Blackfaces still have some kind of sweetness at high frequencies, some kind of presence and upper mids which silverface amps lack. And yes, in reality, the difference is bigger than what you can hear in the video, but still not night and day.
Both are great amps, but I like the full sound of the silver face a little better, in fact I bought a 2015, 68 Vibrolux reissue because of the sounds and response. I just wish it was a little lighter😂
I have a 64 Showman, I find the preCBS is missing (a good thing) some 250Hz low mids, that gives beautiful clarity, and sonic room for a mid-rangy bass/drums.
There is a vibrancy that a well tuned-up BF Fender has that a good SF Fender simply can't match, at least to my ears after 45 years of playing both, a lot. SF Fenders are good amps (I'd rather use one than most modern amps), but they suffer from inferior cabinet and wiring design and implementation, as well as being often loaded with less than stellar sounding speakers. They tend to sound a bit bassy and muted in the high end (less harmonics) as opposed to a nice BF.
Exactly! I had the same impression when comparing them. And recording equipment never captures everything from the "vibe" of the amps. There is also a big difference in the response of the amps to your picking. They just behave and react different and there is a kind of sweetnes in the BF that inspires you to play in a certain way. BF will never be surpassed by SF. What a pitty they only made them for 4 years...
@@sagestowlsreviews2096 Call Tony Van Note at Vintone and get some Original old baskets with his recones. He is the BEST out there. I know he does recones as well as make speakers for some VERY WELL KNOWN amp builders( and guitar builders) I am not at liberty to divulge them. He may have some old Jensen,CTS and Oxford baskets he can recone. Forget all the others!! His recones obliterate ANY of the usual suspects( and we know who those companies are)
They both sound good to me. Not surprisingly the blackface sounds more 60s rock, blues and jazz, and the silverface sounds more pink floyd, dire straights. Basically, more presecense, openness on the blackface, more mids, less scooped, more dense on the silverface. But both sound great.
Nice comparison. I didn't mind your moving the cord back and forth because then it was very clear which amp we were hearing. IMO, if recording then i would give a slight edge to the BF, but i would expect for live performance in a band setting both would likely sound equally great unless there is some difference in their tone or clarity as volume goes up or pedals are added. for reference: my amps: 65 BF Deluxe Reverb, 74 SF Vibrolux Reverb, 91 Whitney SVR.44, 59 GA-18T (Gibson)
Thanks. In reality, BF sounded quite a bit different from the SF. Although I used proper mics and good recording equipment, the real difference cannot be captured. Your 65 DR must be a beast!
yes the DR is the best of the of the bunch, especially for just pure no-pedals tone. The Whitney is probably my most versatile amp. It can handle just about anything put out in front of it and has a few more modern control features such as both master vol and gain, presence in addition to 3 band eq, and reverb cut/mix in addition to reverb depth.
Very interresting job, but you can't realy compare two amps with different speaker, especialy if one is ceramic and other alnico ! But I love Vibrolux ! It is the perfect mix between the sound of the Deluxe and the power of a Bandmaster.
There is a key between 20:50-23:50. When 75 is plugged into 64 cab/speakers, I hear absolutely NO DIFFERENCE from 64. I think speakers contribute so much for tone. The spongy, velvety 64 tone = Oxford 10L5 The twangy, crispy clear 75 tone = Eminence Alnico
Great comparison! Wondering how loud they really are on levels 3-4. I am on the market for a super clean recording amp. and hesitating between the Vibrolux and a Princeton 65 reverb. Currently using a Blues Deluxe, and it is way too bassy, breaks up too early and is too loud on level 2-3 already. Do you think the Vibrolux would be a good recording amp on lower levels? My neighbours are super fine with me playing loud, but I personally cannot stand if something is super loud (twin reverb hurts on level 2 for recording:) Thank a lot;)
They are very loud at 3-4. Unfortunately, they don't sound as good below 3. Blackface is a bit quieter and breaks up a bit earlier. Silverface is a bit more linear, but still not ultralinear as the last silverface models from the end of 70s. Of course, they will be less loud than twin and will be breaking up nicely in a loud band scenario. If you don't want to use a power brake or Oxbox or something like that and want record at home, even Princeton is still too loud. For home recording anything from 1-5 watts is ideal, and I am not joking. But if you want THAT FENDER SOUND, than maybe Champ is good option or some amp with power scaling. If you are in a house and your neighbour is fine with you playing loud, then a Princeton or Deluxe could do the job.
I have a 67 and had a late 70's version with the ultra linear output tranny. No comparison the old guy just compressed and shined at the same time. The latter was too clean and wouldn't break up. The 75 in this video is way closer to the sound of the blackface era. I have silver face amps from early seventies, Deluxes, Prinectons that sound just as good if not better that the blacks. These circuits stayed pretty much the same. Good day
The VR line never had UL output transformers. Pull boost volume, yes, but no master volume, like other UL fender amps. Pretty much all VR amps, right through the production years, sound great.
Dang. The way I do this is I wait until I hear what I like and then look up to see what you were plugged into. '64 dominated. I really wanted it to be even (I mean, check prices, right?) but it wasn't close. Edit: Not saying the '75 sounded bad, but that '64 though. The speakers were a huge part of it, but certainly not all.
Yeah, tubes are different too. We have to take into account that. But the speakers make a bigger difference and the old Oxfords sound beautiful. Also the cabinets resontate different (obviously the 60s one resonates nicer as it is made out of completely solid boards - the 70s one has stripes of solid wood glued together). The most objective comparison is at the end of the video where I compared the amps through the same cab and speakers. There the difference is not so big.
@@sagestowlsreviews2096 Certainly your choice to consider; but you might think about building a new baffle for the Silver, out of 1/2" or even 3/4" birch. Use new grill cloth and keep your old baffle intact in case you want to sell the amp.
Would have been better using an A-B switch...All A/B comparisons would benefit...I like both amps and they sound great to my ears using premium headphones, but I will defer to the well tuned ears of 45 years of experience. A lot of early Silverface amps still are primarily wired the same as Blackface amps using the same parts in most cases, but with a minor change to the reverb circuit to keep it from getting overheated in the Silverfaces...Bottom line is you can A/B two of the same model amps and chances are there may still be differences due to variances in tolerances of components...Bottom line is you'll probably sound great through either of these classics so find a good one and play it with a big smile on your face. I have a 71 Vibrolux and love it...Pine is divine in a cabinet as my Silverface is. As the Sagest commented, you have to play them and be in the room with them to really appreciate any differences.
Yes, especially in Vibroluxes and Deluxes, the circuits in blackface and silverface are very similar. After all, these two amps never got a master volume in the 70s (only the queer push pull feature - which I doubt anybody has ever used). However, there are differences in the cabinet construction and speakers. BFs had a solid pine cab with a floating baffle whereas SFs (except the early ones) were constructed of more pine stripes glued together (still solid though) and the baffle was firmly attached and immersed in a furrow on all 4 sides. And speakers will always make a dramatic difference. I plugged the silverface amp into the BF cabinet and it sounded a bit more like the BF, although still not the same. And I guess 68-71 SF is a different circuit than later SFs. Unfortunately I am in Europe and it is not so easy to get an early SF or a BF for a reasonable price. Anyway, thanks for watching and sharing your experience!
same knob / channel settings on both? sounds like the 1964's blackface has more clarity and definition, but still the silverface sound great. though choice.
which one do i like better? dude with killer playing like yours (especially in the outro) the sound would be great even if it was coming from a solid state cheapo amp...
Very well played i had in background just for the noodles. Very tasteful. Also i own virbolux amp head only w/ 4x greenback cabinet. i should have it revised cuz elco's fckd. turn it on hear russian and french radio. voulez vous coucher avec moi?
0:25 vs 0:46 I like the Silverface better here. You say these are eminence alnico speakers? Are they black with a blue Fender sticker on the back? Or are the metal frames actually painted blue?
The 64 is a clear winner here. Maybe it’s the ceramic oxfords vs the alnicos in the 75. The reverb sounds better in the 64 too. And better bass response
The alnico sounds more scooped and compressed, while the oxfords sounds more natural sounding to my ears. What do you guys think? (I’m planing on purchasing my own 1965 Vibrolux Reverb with Oxford 10L5-2 Speakers🤩)
Agreed. However, the AlNiCos are not in the best shape which we have to take into account. Blackface Vibrolux is one of the best amps I have ever played - not only sound wise, but also its tactile response and sustain. If you can grab one in a good condition, go for it!
the circuits arent that much different, the main difference I hear is in the speakers. the blackface had ferro oxfords that sounded much more open than the emminence alnicos which sounded more compressed...........at the end they switch speakers and it kindof comfirmed that.
