Video gaming investigated: The sneaky tactics used to take your time and money | Four Corners 

Loot boxes should be illegal in Australia.

For those interested, Jim Sterling and the Jimquisition have extensively covered this area. Gaming is a fun hobby for many people, but the industry itself is ugly. It lobbies for exemptions, lashes out at critics of these formulas and regularly consults pokie developers to make their products more addictive to those that are vulnerable. The industry spokesman shown here makes some great points, but every consumer benefit he points out is one that is exploited by companies that know the market they are in is relatively new and underregulated.

Also it used to be the case that when you paid for a game, you got a fully fleshed out game. Often the case now is that games will have important or enjoyable features deliberately gutted, only to be accessible when further transactions are made.

I bought Minecraft back in 2011 when it was priced as €20. Since then they have added different monsters, animals, trees, crops, villagers, dimensions... They're about to increase the world height and add mountain goats and crazy cave systems. I have played with different texture packs, played online multiplayer, tried different mods. Since I first paid for the game I have enjoyed all of this for free. The only other money I have given them was a small monthly fee last year for Mojang to host a family server so I could at least virtually spend Christmas with my loved ones. Is it addictive? Maybe. I can spend half a day playing it. But then I can go a few weeks without logging in. And it's been a positive addition to my lifestyle, giving me an outlet after a bad day at work or something easy to do while I listened to lectures and audiobooks when I was studying. Some games are ripping people off but some, like Minecraft, are made by people who genuinely want their players to have a wonderful experience.

Game addiction has always been there since the birth of games. But the pay to win model is a curse and the reason why I avoid alot of new games. And of course avoid everything from EA and also Tencent.

and i cringe every time they say developers are doing this... it's not it's the higher up business twonks with the MBA's who are doing it, developers are merely doing their job while being squeezed to complete insane amounts of work on short deadlines should have mentioned that somewhere in doing an investigation like this

The 81 dislikes are from video game executives who wants more coke money.

This is a great episode - but a little more care could have been taken with pairing up the footage with the examples so that they weren’t wrong. (Animal Crossing doesn’t have micro-transactions, for example. There’s no game-sanctioned way to buy the in-game currency.)

Very well made investigation. Players as well as friends/family of players, take caution while enjoying any online game. *Though this is NOT ALL OF GAMING.* There also exists single purchase one-and-done singleplayer games as well. Similar to buying a movie DVD or a book that you consume alone. Among them are few that deliver on great stories. Notable examples : Portal, Bioshock, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War etc. They way these narratives are told can not (or very hard) be replicated in other mediums like film or books. --------- Some corrections/clarifications in the video : * Nintendo console games (non-mobile) NEVER have microtransactions, and are very kid-safe. They can be a little addictive though. Ex - Super Mario, Legend of Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart. * Twitch streaming is another way of creating pressure in impressionable teens, and friends/family of such players should take it into account. * Like micro, there are macro transactions. These are also one-time fees for buying add-ons or expansion pack, which have been mainstay since board gaming. Think buying extra chapters of a book.

Just, to add to something said by Dr. King in his interview. When he notes the reluctance of members of the gaming industry to admit to problem gaming. There is a financial incentive. For those not in the know, developers for games with Microtransactions (those small purchases that stack up as spoken about earlier in the episode). There are industry terms for spenders. Minnows, Dolphins, and Whales. The Whales are the ones that industry insiders aim for. They can spend thousands of dollars on a single game. But the industry typically tries to characterise these people as just wealthy individuals with no spending problems. But when you look deeper, they are often children and people with addiction disorders that are being preyed upon by the companies in question. For these companies, the "whales" are often the ones that can bring in millions with just a few of them. So they are financially disincentivised to acknowledge the issue of problem gaming.

loot boxes are not the same as a kinder surprise, because the kinder surprise doesn't pop up a message to buy one at the end of game rounds, and it also doesn't have your bank card details saved at hand so all you need to do is push a button to complete the purchase. loot boxes are 100% a pokie machine. which is based on the "skinner box". (look it up) a majority of mobile games, employ the same people who made improvements (ways to make them more addictive) on pokie machines. While consumers have E3 etc, where they can gather to see new gaming devices and games coming out, the makers also have yearly conferences like E3, but its to figure out new ways to keep the gamer playing, keep them "hooked".

If a game asks for money beyond the initial purchase price, you are being played. Ideally customers are savvy enough to avoid the predatory tactics, but they aren't. Governments should step in and make loot boxes completely illegal, and they should probably do the same with all microtransactions.

Broadly speaking, anything pushed as "free to play" - including most mobile games - is not free, but arbitrarily expensive. However, even full-price games can be stupidly expensive once you add in microtransactions. Cost in time, on the other hand, is fairly unpredictable. Games with a social component and open world games tend to be the big time sinks. The way so many of these microtransactions are targeted at kids is shameful. Much of the time they use psychological tricks to encourage addictive behaviour. Loot boxes are just part of the problem. The game designers often target what they call "whales" who spend large amounts - often thousands of dollars - but they take no measures to limit that spending.

welcome to 10 YEARS AGO

The culture of gaming is that it has become so socially acceptable that the social cost of it is lost into blaming the victims/survivors of behavioural disorders - it's terrible. Thanks for highlighting this reality and the pernicious nature of predatory gaming corporation monetisation.

If you pay money for something in game where the value goes from trash to something you'd willing pay many times for, then that's gambling. Australia has gambling laws why are they being ignored? You don't need a second enquiry when it can be answered in a few seconds.

Cigarettes used to be popular. It made tobacco company people lots of cash, and slowly we learned how bad it is. (still lots of people smoke and most want to quit) Casino's owners took socially good games and turned it into profit making addiction especially with poker machines. Games used to be all for story telling, fun, de-stressing... Now they're the opposite. I used to play great games back in the day, now I'm trying to quit addictive games like Pokemon Go...

I used to play gacha games, I quit recently, over 5 years, I went through two separate gacha games. I played FFXV ANE for like two years, at first it was fun, to start building an empire, training troops and doing research and levelling up but I only spent one time $3 just to get a second construction slot. Soon after I started playing, it starts to get longer to do things meanwhile you get raided by your opponents who have stronger troops than you. I had three separate accounts just to get resources to do stuff and not have to gather it. Why I left that game because it got to a point where to get the better troops you needed scrolls which could not be obtained by grinding and had to be paid for. Then I went to Lords Mobile same concept as FFXV ANE played for three years and got to the highest troop tier but then they added another tier and before that added an extra level of gear to give people an advantage. I quit because it was just occupying my day, my night, my weekend and it was not fun anymore not being able to defend myself during siege. I made some friends in game but when you leave the guild and go to another guild or quit you don’t hear from them. I seen people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on these games an I see other people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars more to outdo them! People can do as they please with their money, if they don’t want to spend don’t play pay to play games and send a message to the game developers!

I'm an 80's gamer and have taught my kids a balance which allows them to binge in gaming and in normal life without having to spending much at all. I think anyone born after the 80's will struggle with the concept of ignoring pay to win as we had to work harder than any gamer now to complete the games we played. The only exception were/are arcade games.

If the child psychiatrist was addicted what hope do I have 🤣

Several years ago I played a phone game and worked out some in other countries must have spent 100's thousands in a game for what they had. For 1-2 years now I have ban myself from playing with others online so I do not waste my time anymore. I replaced it with healthier activities - walking group, gym etc.

There are some really unethical and predatory mechanisms being used to squeeze money from people. My concern is more for kids who are exposed to constant bombardment of microtransaxtions and pay to win offers, that aren't old enough or mature enough to identify the manipulations happening and become desensitised to it or worse, compulsive spenders. This puts a lot of difficult situations onto parents who are already trying to keep up and keep involved with the constantly changing industry that uses experts to manipulate their kids, many of whom battle social pressure, impulse control and time management pressures in each online session.

This is a great documentary. I love the interviewee introductions, very video gamey, like how characters just stare or fidget until you press a button prompt.

"you're investing money and you'll get something back" What if you get the same thing back 30 times in a row?

I used to play Destiny 2, and as a game I really enjoyed it, bought a deluxe version of one of the expansions when I originally bought the game that gave me 3 free season passes. While working full time there was no way for me to complete a season pass, but I got an injury that had me off for about a month and a half and stuck on the couch, so I would spend my time working through the seasons pass. I eventually completed it, reach level 100 and I threw my arms up in the air in celebration!....Then I started to think about the amount of time I had to dedicate to the game to get there, the anxiety about not playing the game.... I had played a minimum of 8 hours a day, at least 5 days a week for more than a month on top of what I had already managed to get in order to complete that season's pass. The moment I realised that, I uninstalled the game. I miss playing it on a very regular basis, but I can't bring myself to play it again for fear of falling back into that trap again...

Remember when games were fun and not like a full time job and you unlocked things by playing the game instead of paying and it didnt cost thousands of dollars to complete your fifa game

I work with someone totally obsessed with a video game, and it has resulted in the breakdown of his relationship. The power of these games should not be underestimated.

Great reporting. The deep dive into loot box (or gacha if you're into that) is spot on. I've played them, and the way they present it.. it felt like gambling for JPEG files. Of course, new monetization opportunities such as Battle Passes exist (and I'm VERY supportive of Battle Passes), but mtx and lootboxes are king. However, the data capture thing isn't as scary as you might think it is. Also, the gaming disorder section felt too long, I would have preferred mtx to be featured more prominently.

I'm really grateful that my parents didn't let us play any video games. Well, we were allowed to play one where you had to answer math questions to get through it. I used be jealous of all my friends who had unlimited gaming time etc. Looking back now, I can only day thank you.

When Playtika took their stock public in January, they boasted that they would make their non-paying gamers pay and make the payers pay more. Just do a search on them; Playtika takes sleazy to a new level.

Worth noting too, that a lot of skins that are purchased in-game for your character, do absolutely nothing to build your XP/Skills. You can blow a lot of money on cosmetic features

As a gamer I could not keep myself from laughing at the name Rob Leming. And I bet older gamers would initially respond in the same way if they would ever join in one of his studies :)

I come home to a wife and family playing these online games and it is impossible to have a conversation with anyone in the house.

Lol the tool trying to justify loot boxes as an “investment”...he doesn’t mention that that once you pay for the “investment” there is little to no return apart from a psychological reward. Investment he says. I’d like to Invest in his head being stomped in

Wow, nice to see Jim Sterling, YongYea and others in this programme :) And frankly nice to see four corners cover this topic.

I saw a very small portion of the Christchurch massacre livestream and didn't initially realise what it was. Gaming has become so slick that I thought that's what I was watching.

Ron should work for cigarette companies

Weather Torulf realised at the time or not, he did say things that were long suspected by purchasers of games and revealed the things corporate managers are implementing without being transparent. Oddly I wonder by doing what he did and the blowback at the transparency/audacity of it, I wonder if he actually slowed the implementation of the very thing he was promoting. I personally would like the use of virtual currencies banned, and some age restrictions put in place on all these things to prevent at least kids from being potentially groomed by these things.

23:05 Why did they include Animal Crossing: New Horizons at that point? There is no monetisation of any kind in that game. Include Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp, for sure, but not New Horizons!

Micro transaction Gaming is just Kiddy Pokies. It's really that simple

Gaming designers know exactly what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't hire behavioural experts & psychologists to assist in game development to aid in creating an endorphin rush & further association between play, pay, enjoyment & social connection, especially with kids, it's a perfect storm to seek their gaming loyalty, & subliminally chip away at their ability to close it down & go play outside.

Play chess online. Free of charge and no product-placement.

2hy was animal crossing on this list of microtransactions?

0:57 Isn’t that every other businesses in the world!? Why is this only targeted towards video games? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard anyone say when arguing about video games!!

How about we ban these game and only allow games where you purchase and you own the actual whole game

I did a game making course at TAFE, and they teach you in the course how to make your game more addictive. "Capitalism"...

Lootboxes are the gaming version of slot machines, except it’s “legal” to be promoted to children. It should be banned here as it is being banned in other countries.

"turning players into payers"

This has at least 3 Billion less views than it should have

Completely avoided the topic of Twitch and its vertical integration into hot-tub streams 🤣

I played video games a ton as a kid, but I still went outside and played a lot. It looks like the kids don't go outside at all.

I could never get addicted to gaming, it just burns you out eventually.

i generally stay away from all these kind of unfinished, pay for more features type of games. Indie games are really where the creativity is at anyway

South Park covered this many years ago.

I've been playing competitive Apex Legends for the past 2 years so I'm kind of out of touch with what other recent games are looking like, are they really that bad? like I see some dudes complain about apex's microtransactions but it's like you can get basically any skin in the game without paying a dime and there's not a single gameplay feature hidden behind a paywall so I never really got the complaint, it's aesthetics and self-control nothing really too important, is this the same extent seen in other games or are there legitimate gameplay things being hidden behind pay walls in other games?

oof. rift i remember that dumpster fire, can't believe it's still around

Wow, this slice of journalism here is quintessentially Australian. Conservative to a t. There are so many angles they could have selected to craft an article that for many is an insight into gaming culture. Yet they choose the 'how predatory corporations utilize microtransactions to exploit fringe users; people who have underlying addictive personalities already and people who are socially ostracised and alienated for pre existing reasons.' And at the outset, the conservative opinion prevails in Australian discourse. Games are made of nothing. They only require electricity and know how to produce, yet they're more controversial than coal? something we dig out of the ground and pollute the air with. Something that is actively lowering the quality of life for millions of people and animals around the world. Video games should be embraced. Particularly the emerging industry in Australia. We don't need to trade in stuff we dig out of the ground. We can trade in our intellectual property. You dropped the ball here 4 Corners.

Please please let us readdress the gambling rules around this! We need to prevent access to gambling by at least kids.

the only thing I have ever done is to pay to remove ads on a few games on mobile. I play Candy Crush but when out of moves and the game says "Pay for more moves", I put the phone down. The kids have ipad's, but I block them from the internet at my Home Router. They can connect to the home network, but that is it, BLOCKED !

people addicted to fortnite lootboxes then theres me, spending years building dumb rockets and killing kerbals with no remorse

'the game offered me a reward i cant refuse' xD

Perhaps classrooms should implement some of the game science ideas to keep the students attention. Went to plenty of classes where kids were unruly and disruptive (where I couldn't even learn as then 5 others would pipe in making it worse) to where they were just kicked out as unteachable (better for me, but not for them). Either do that or make separate schools for disruptive students, making a good school for those that want to learn and have 0 disruptive issues.

I believe they missed a lot but they still went further than most other media will.

They're not "loot boxes", they're "surprise mechanics".......

Watching this occasionally I get a "Richard Ayoade" vibe. Just occasionally.

I’ll pay to get rid of the ads, but paying to improve your position is a bit much. I’m currently satisfied with expanding my hood in GTA San Andreas

Someone needs to tell Jay he shouldn't need or want to spend '50,000 robux' on a in game cosmetic item, thats being held behind a monetary paywall for no other reason then to encourage spending. That those items should unlock naturally throughout a game, you know as reward.

Gaming is s9 yesterday,can’t believe people still do it.

Can’t that be said about ALOT of things in this world? There will ALWAYS be a small percentage of the population who become addicted to things and activities they will need professional help to break the habit.

If you can simply pay real money to win, it's not a game. It's ego prostitution.

I can't believe this lady didn't know to buy an Ergonomic gaming keyboard with proper wrist rest this whole fricking time she's been playing. Got a Razor Widow nice and comfy.

I got into Evony after the GFC. Ended up creating a Guild. You need to either live on the game or drop a couple of dollars to buy some freedom (shields) to keep a step ahead of the Spenders (who are company players - employees whose goal is to get you to spend). I do not play online games or $$ games at all, but not for the money -because the people you meet are shite.

I work 45 hours a week. I "grind" a game called "PUBG" I have around 4k hours into the game. I have 2 steam accounts so I've paid for the game twice, one for competing and serious grinding, another for playing with friends and not taking the game serious just having fun Been playing since season 5 its now season 11. I also compete im custom scrim lobbies.. only ever brought one $15 battle pass the whole time. I just don't see the point in dressing my avatar up in weird clothes and colorful guns. Or skins on vehicles. They use to have a system which was good where you could swap and gift items to friends. My skins have all been gifted from friends partnered with the game and twitch. i had a a pcs3 SLR skin i sold on the steam market for $80 which repaid both accounts and the battle pass. I have others i could sell also for profit. I play 15-20 hours a week. Still spend time with family, sundays we all go device free. I go to the gym for an hour before work Saturdays friends and I will take out one of our toys bikes or cars. These people are a limited few who abuse the games, moan about pains in hands and back? People work in offices doing similar but different things.. get off your ass and do something physical and you'll feel better for it mentally and physically. .. rant done

EA, Bioware, Epic, Riot, CD Projekt Red, and basically other monopolies treat the customers like crap, but they get away with it more.....because under sophisticated gagging-orders they can treat employees worse.

pfft 4k on games .. those are rookie numbers

So this is only going public on the big 4 now? Mmm kind of old.

Pay to win, or micro transactions aren't taxable, that was the basis the government used to ban online real money poker...

I agree with this in-depth reporting... I have friends who just want to get back to the footy field and do it EVERY weekend and sometimes soil themselves coz it's so intense. Can we get some "reporting" on that phenomenon? *sighs* it's so insanely cringe-worthy what's being reported here - it makes it so difficult to take you the ABC seriously with this sort of dribble

Good games deserve to be well paid for. Bad games that use these tactics don't. Its up to the smart consumer to discern between the two.

give them a visa prepaid rechargable card, set up bpay so that money is transferred to that account weekly or bi-weekly however you do it and... just leave it... that's it just don't even transfer money into it unless it's agreed, don't attach your card, don't sign them up for a debit card with the bank. My suggestion is simple these days, split the amount you pay your kids the same way you earn with your work... 20% into the child's savings account so that they can procure 20%pa and 80% into an account that they can access and teach them about savings from the start don't rely on the schools to do that for you, they will not.

Should look into communities too though... I'd suggest Roblox.

I love how every time i play a smurf account in league i reach diamond 0 problems what so ever but when i go to my main rn i go on 15 games lose streak in plat xD XD XDXD and riot still denying there is loser queue and rigged matchmaking it's hilarious . I think the reason for this is a new player needs to feel like the game isnt rigged etc and he can get good matches while the old players get dumped in loser queue and rigged matches to "Grind alot of games" so there's more players playing ^^ so dumb right ?

how is this released in 2021 but looks like it is from 2018? 😂

Anything out of moderation can be bad but kids playing 'freemium' games where pressure and encouragement to buy endless microtransactions needs to stop. Its a form of gambling and needs to be limited to adults only at a minimum.

To the woman that spent 4k. LMAO you are an adult, don't blame others.

Animal crossing does NOT have micro-transactions... you need to remove that part of the video it’s misleading some viewers..

Who else is preparing for the Day 1 VoG raid?

Overall, this is a decent doco. But the lies are very off-putting. It's about 70% accurate overall, which I guess is decent for this kind of doco designed for drama.

is there TV disorder?

We sure are cuz!! 😳😳😳😳

I love games but even gamers HATE I AND I MEAN HATE RNG Loot boxes and basically gambling since it plays on the notion of I might get something but no they returned that at start it seems oo nice stuff but as time goes on it gets worse and worse. Right now with call of duty I REFUSE to buy anything and grind for it.

"You regret the time spent and wonder how you could've spent it in a more worthwhile way." What a load of rubbish. Gaming is a form of entertainment. No different to watching movies/TV or going out and socialising with mates. I socialise with mates online. I don't regret the time I spend doing it and I don't wonder how I could've spent it in a more worthwile way because I had fun playing games with my mates so to me that IS worthwhile! As for monetisation in games, I greatly dislike things in games like paid loot boxes (there are some you can earn for free just by playing, such as those in Overwatch. They're not as bad as the ones you can only get by paying real money for!) and subscription fees (why do I need to pay an extra monthly fee to play the game I've already paid money for when I purchased it?!). I do spend money on things in game but only on cosmetic items to change aspects of my character, not to gain an advantage or skip levels, because I like some of the cosmetic items that are offered. To me they enhance the experience of playing the game and make it more enjoyable. I don't see it as any different to someone going out and spending money on beer or paying to enter an art gallery, for examples. But certainly don't spent a lot and I always keep track of how much I spend in a given week. That said, I disagree that loot boxes aren't like a Kinder Surprise. They're EXACTLY like a Kinder Surprise. You're GUARANTEED to get something from a Loot Box, just like a Kinder Surprise, and you know what that something is going to be since the possible rewards are always listed, just like a Kinder Surprise. Just because the something you get may not be the something you want doesn't make it gambling, especially since, unlike gambling, you're always guaranteed to get something. There's no risk of loss. Though I do agree that loot boxes, like Kinder Surprises and trading card packs, do retain some gambling-like elements.

“Asked” “Ask”, I heard this word multiple times, I personally think there’s a difference between a pop-up which is saying “You CAN buy this but you don’t need to”, and straight up ASKING them to spend money.

I played video games for years. When I got married and had kids, I'm lucky to get half an hour a day nowadays. Being hooked on herion is not the same as turning off a console.

Hmm... I thought lootboxes in gaming had been there since the mid 2000s.

Wow.

Video games r inclusive to all, reality is not, it’s not really that hard to see the appeal.

Reality is the game, the games are miserable real lives. Or at least that's what playing Riot's games feels like.

The title: The sneaky tactics used to take your time and money | Four Corners The video: Takes 44 minutes for something that could be reasonably described and explained in 10 minutes. *The greatest cost of screens isn't the financial cost; it's the cost of opportunity and time.* _Like watching RU-vid, for instance_ Seriously, though, more could be elucidated in 10 minutes. Video games use fake currencies or tokens to abstract the real money cost from you. By further extension, substitute the real money cost of something for your time to earn it, which is effectively the cost of your life. This sort of valuation circumvents annoying and deceptive arguments about wages, salaries, and incomes. It's educating to realise that something costs say, 2½ hours or 150 minutes, rather than $50. And don't forget to include tax(es) in your calculation. The government takes money, time, and life just like private enterprise. Why discriminate?-you've only got about 28,000 days if the inferential statistic about expected lifespan is correct!

League of legends is a perfect example of a rigged game. Ranked is a complete joke and the matchmaking + mmr system will hold you back when you should be far above what you are.