I like to call these types of streams “depressioncore” since they remind me of the times I’d stay up late watching Vinny play weird shit while I was sad and lonely. These kinds of games always give me that contemplative, melancholic vibe
@@PondScummer stuff like Google Deepdream too. No system of Complicated Stealing and techbros trying to explain why it's ok to everyone in the room, just weird calculations over stock images to make something obviously unreal.
@AC-yh3lf honestly i'd say the worst thing is people saying "it's a tool" as if nobody understands that. it's just got some highly questionable use-cases right now also reminder that the luddites appeared because their jobs were stolen, then they got executed. my stake in all this is that i'm concerned about the oncoming slop and media hitting peak mediocrity, and the jobs obviously. artists got screwed and a lot of people are okay with it as long as it doesn't take their job next
@@PondScummer Honstly the potential for scum is even greater now. It's just that the focus has always been to reduce the jank, and now that it's achievable, most tools have tuned it out.
@@Hwyadylaw If Vinny got the community on making something like that, it'd absolutely happen. There are such tech wizards in this community, someone could tweak the perfect scrumbly image generator
@@spacebassist Why did we skip over the part where the luddites threatened, attacked and in at least one case even killed people before the government reacted with a massive overreach showtrial? You make it sound like a one-sided process.
hi Tyler, im the dev of that game, omg didn't expect this to go "big" just wanted to do this project for fun, but yes, i understand... i found a 3d model of the low poly model of the polyhedron and i tought it was a good idea to implement it in a different way from the original game, but damn now i'm regreting about it 😭
@@Mikelica69word from the wise, don't try to repurpose assets from other games in yours. Even if it's a little jam project it doesn't reflect well that you took something without credit and passed it off as your own. At the very least credit where it's due, but don't do it unless you have explicit permission.
@AC-yh3lf City of Piss? Because ""stealing"" from big companies is leagues better than taking from indie devs or normal people/artists, which is also what GenAI was designed to do, it's a class issue
I host LSDJAM every year - thanks for streaming some of the entries! It's great to see these awesome games getting more attention. We'll be back in 2024 at the same time, so look forward to that! :) We'll be taking a harder stance against AI assets next year - I believe it's not in the spirit of the jam. There was an informal rule not to use them this year, I was not aware that any entries were using them, so this has been informative!
Hello, I'm the developer of Mercurial Dreams. I apologize for causing such controversy, as I didn't see any rules on the jam page against AI-generated images, I thought AI images would add a mysterious touch to my game (and besides not having time to create illustrations, yes, I know I could have chosen other options, I've learned my lesson). So yes, thank you very much for hosting this jam, it has been a lot of fun participating in it , and I'm sorry for all the controversy caused. It seems necessary to emphasize the use of AI and/or, in this case, prohibit it.
@@Mikelica69 Don't worry about it! It's my bad for not making it clear on the jam page, so I see no sense in disqualifying any entries for 2023 or anything! Hope to see you again for 2024 :)
@@Figglewatts Just remember to explain your reasoning. Even as someone who is generally on the "generative AI is a neat tool" side, I reckon for a game jam - where the goal is to create what you can with a limited amount of time - it makes sense to disallow their usage, as time pressures might cause people to feel they need to do it to keep up.
That cat game (especially the part with the space shuttle) HEAVILY reminded me of a series of dreams I had when I was a kid 21 years ago, that was weirdly similiar to those dreams.
hii!! i'm the developer of the game, first of all, didn't expect my game to be played on a big yt channel (lol) i just wanna say sorry, i know AI generated images are very controversial right now, but i just wanted to make this project for fun, nothing serious ^^ i tought it was a good idea, but you guys seems like don't like it, that said, i wanna say thank you for the feedback i'm receiving for future projects, at least ❤
45:53 AI image discussion aside the developer just straight up stole the design of the polyhedron from Pathologic if not outright yoinked the model itself.
omg now i feel so bad now, hearing a lot of people complain about AI images and tons of copyrighted assets XD but i felt like it didnt matter because it's just a project i made for fun
@@Mikelica69 Bro don't listen to these stupid people online. You made a game from passion. It hurts to see people be so cruel simply because you used a tool. Like any tool, it is amoral. You can choose to use it or not. People are always skittish when new tech roles around. The harassment artists are getting for this is fucking disgusting and abhorrent. Don't let anybody tell you what to do. Your game, your rules. Tell them to go back to the asylum. And keep up the great work dude! I love your aesthetic!
@@DennisRollf I don't think anyone is bashing on his game, it's entirely focused on his AI usage. There's a comment here stating someone found the game intriguing, but after seeing AI completely switched off.
@AC-yh3lfyeah that's cool.and all Mr. Dev. But as a consumer who is familiar with the development process I have news for you. Your hard work means nothing to me if the end result sucks, tough tits. No one else in the world begs for praise for their shody work like hack developers, you people wouldn't last an hour in general contracting where we adhere to hard standards and expectations. If I screw up my work, I don't get paid for it and I likely lose money. Nut up. If people are saying the game is shit, instead of deflecting and trying to call your customer base a bunch of idiots. You should shut up and learn to listen to why they don't like what you did.
20:49 not related to the game jam at all, but I can't believe Warning got brought up in casual conversation. Always been my favorite Green Day album and it's so rarely talked about.
im absolutely obsessed with A Time Traveler's Guide to Past Delicacies. it's extremely reminiscent to the style of Eastern Mind: The Lost Souls of Tong Nou which is another game by Osamu Sato (the guy who made Lovely Sweet Dream.) The comedic and meta narrative is a unique spin but the aesthetic styling is gorgeous. It's entirely channeling the energy of Eastern Mind.
7:04 To anyone who hasn't watched it, Pannenkoek's video is actually really good. Just watch it in parts if it's too long; treat it like a video series.
46:20 There actually is surviving footage of him playing Mario Galaxy 2, which was one of his first streams ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hbGIGrZH1kQ.htmlsi=IGqa0L7DBBAuEb8p
I'm kind of bummed that Mercurial Dreams didn't turn out well. I think it had a lot of potential, but bungled it on tedious platforming and world travel. The AI-generated images didn't help.
I don't like the type of usage AI images in general have been getting lately either, but come on, everyone losing their mind when it was an actual rare occasions where it was used for it's literal intended purpose. They are basically like your own personalized throwaway stock photos. Just a quick filler/placeholder image for when there's limited time and/or resources, games for gamejams are mostly games in prototype stages with little to no budget and with no profit to be made, if they had to go out of their way to start finding an commisioning one or several artists, wait for their responses and results, it would go way beyond any reasonable scope a game for a jam should have. Now, my real complain is that, good use or not, the results are really damn ugly and really ruins the charming ps2 style of that one game lol.
I imagine there's gonna be a lot of discourse about the AI art usage in that one game. That being said, it caught my attention that a chat member said most (if not all) game jams forbid the usage of AI assets. Is that true? If so, did LSD Game Jam just forget to deal with that game entirely? I honestly thought this sort of thing would be """fine""" by game jam standards considering a lot of the assets are placeholders and it's not for profit, but... well, it's a big discussion. Chat definitely got heated and clearly made Vinny upset because he couldn't even voice his nuanced opinion without being called an apologist. Shame that people are so rabid about it now when we were having fun with AI nightmare streams many sundays ago
I think the difference is that back then (with the nightmare streams) those images weren’t replacing any human made art. They were being treated as their own thing, separate from any “real” art form, but I guess it’s somewhat fair to argue that it’s hypocritical to some degree since those models were trained off of copyrighted images just like the current ones, even if the people participating were unaware of the ethical issues. Anyways yeah there’s no reason to be hostile towards anyone over it and it really sucks when people are, because we need nuance and understanding when it comes to ai image usage
i think the problem is that many of the game jam devs (rightfully) belive that AI """art""" should not be encouraged at all. even if you don't profit from it, you're still skipping practically the entire process of creating or finding textures to use in your game in favor of getting some program to give you janky looking textures that are "good enough." meanwhile all the other devs either spent the time creating textures by hand or paid for access to a database of textures made by other real people.
@@scrumlet3381 you should read in detail about how ai generated art is actually created. it's basically like having a classroom full of toddlers all trying to recreate a painting of abstract shapes. ai cant tell what a hand is, what a finger is, or what a knuckle is. it only knows that if it makes something that looks like a real hand with real fingers and real knuckles it will be told it did the right thing. the real problem is that in order to tell it what is a good example and what isn't, the people who make them use art made by real people to give the ai a general idea of what it should be replicating.
@@scrumlet3381 i was referring to ai art replication in general. i talked about why it still isn't good in this instance in another reply i made to the original comment
@@hecticscone The issue with this argument is that lots of games made during a game jam have parts that are janky and "good enough" especially if they are all made at the event. This is especially true for one person projects and even if the person in question is a game development "renaissance man" they might still compromise on at least one aspect of a game to focus on a different one. IMO at least in cases where you don't have a full team using AI to generate textures or music should be allowed. Organizers could even have a list of approved AI models and therefore get around the accusations that get thrown at the popular AI tools.
The 'without the use of AI' tag I saw for the first time in 'death god' by frostbitt like a week ago. It's crazy we've gotten to that point with ai but its a good idea now. highly highly recommend the vid to anyone who gets a chance even if its not your cup of tea musically. The non-AI music video is fantastic, and the message in the lyrics and their description is an extremely important one
"lame AI cat thing" 1 piece of AI art and you are acting like the whole game was made by AI. you well and truly took the AI hate train with no thought.
@@logandarnell8946 it just takes away from the games integrity, when ai art isn't used in the context of parody and presents itself as something more than it is, its dishonest and shitty. shows a lack of care and creativity on the part of the developer and I cannot support it
I don't really have a problem with an indie game artist using AI. It's clear that this game was made by either one person or a small team, And I'm sure they don't have the funds to commission artists for all these different pieces they wanted for this game especially when most artists charge significantly more if you want to basically buy the rights to the art It's really only upsetting when big companies do it because they obviously do have the funds to properly hire artists and pay for the rights to the art
I get that they probably didn't mean to hurt anyone but at the end of the day it's still theft of another person's work for their own work. If you are an indie creator it is a billion times more heartfelt and interesting to make everything themselves, even if they aren't skilled. And for something like a game jam and you have an idea but don't have time to execute it, then don't do it. In the case of the game vinny played, the creator could have used stock photos or drawn them in ms paint. There really isn't ever an excuse to use AI.
Dark Cloud!!! One of my favorite ps2 games that sadly never got the attention it deserved because it was immediately labeled as a Zelda clone on release. But it had so much more going for it.
I was wondering why we suddenly got a boost in "I am a worm"'s views. And seems like I found the culprit of it :p (I was the artist for the record). The game was originally made for a 3 hour game jam, so that's why it didn't really fit into lsd dream emulator.
1:32:33 I think the main thing that causes this is materials not being preloaded by the engine properly, so the freezing is the game loading the materials in-game once they need to be rendered. Godot is awesome and that’s the only major issue I think that needs fixing.
Does anyone know the name of a walking simulator Vinny played a while back where you eat some crusty pizza near the beginning at like a train station or something? The game's soundtrack also has some weird vocals
If you're a single dev putting a game out for free, AI should be fine. You're not putting anyone out of work. When big studios do it, that's another matter.
Thoughts on games: -Worm game: Yeowanaika -UAS: Deep fried eye pain -Mercurial Dreams: Cute but too stretched out (there was also a Neco Arc picture :3 ) -Time Traveler: Most creative of the set, but a bit of filler near the end. -Pyramid: Geometrically Liminal (also C U B E) -Somewhere: Interesting 3D art museum -Somicoda: Closest one to the LSD game. Overall pretty interesting, then again I do like surreal stuff.
I'm imagining the sock puppet is a depiction of some bizzare post human mutation, still biologically human, just radically different physiologically, kinda like something from "All Tommorows"
@@Mikelica69 Look up "21 the world vinny part 1", then go to the 12m 53s mark in the video, there's a car ride segment with a skeleton driver from the same exact POV, only there's a frog with a drink next to you instead of an empty seat
Yeah godot is far from perfect sadly. It was meant to be a very indie engine for a while until people have started to treat it as a serious unity competitor which means godot's current state is very underdeveloped
What was the issue people had with the use of AI art in that Mercurial Dreams game? Or even just generally? Seems like a useful tool for something like a game jam or solo devs, but ive got no idea about the online discourse around this topic
people have been doing game jams just fine for years without ai and the use of ai as such a shortcut kind of goes against the point of a game jam most game jams ban it
@@jared6343 in response to the first argument about people having done game jams without it for years, it's more of a mainstream tool now though. It's a bit of a non-argument, could say the same with anything that hasn't been widely used that then gets adopted recently. Noted with the other points though thanks for the insight. I don't personally still see the issue really if a dev thinks that AI art will either enhance the game or free up their time to work on something they consider more important.
@@tar-dab other tools typically don't steal art like ai does, which it has to for it to work and is a caveat that cannot be got around a lot of bigger game jams require you make everything yourself so if someone were to use ai art that directly goes against that. im sure this one was less strict about that, although they have said there was an informal "no ai" rule
@@jared6343 ty for explaining the game jam rules, not super familiar with them so didn't know about that. Is it actually stealing? What I'd call stealing is if it's directly using whole bits of other people's art in generated images.i wouldn't call the AI training from art that's posted online stealing though. Genuinely just not familiar with the AI image generators. What I will say though is that what I have seen is fairly low quality. Wouldn't consider them a suitable replacement for an actual talented artist, same way I wouldn't find genAI writing a suitable substitute for a human writer.
Literally what's wrong with AI assets for game jam stuff? They're fun little projects made for small, community events and are often free. I feel like people just hear or even assume "AI" and go off the deep end without actually knowing why they're mad. They just get that little idea in their minds and suddenly get heated.
Simple explanation: It's theft. All AI image generation is completely formed from and fueled by taking artists' work without permission or compensation and training a computer to mush all of it together into a picture. There are arguments to be made about how this compares to the human equivalent of "inspiration", but those arguments ignore the fact that if an artist wholesale copy>pastes a different artwork into their own (which AI has been known to do) they lose all respect from their peers, and ruin their reputation. When people see stolen artwork in other games/media it is immediately seen as a scam or a scummy ripoff. AI images are not exempt from that treatment. For why people get so upset over it, those people are trying to discourage the use of AI generation by stating their disapproval. Imagine working really hard on something only for it be stolen, and then trying to tell someone that you were stolen from and got responses ranging from "its not a big deal" to "I'm glad you got stolen from so I can take it too" to "I can't wait for you to be out of a job".
AI this, AI that, it's just a Game Jam, these people have limited time to make a game, and don't have the time to pay and wait for someone else to draw one thing, let alone 10 things
Game Jams are about planning and creation. The time limit has people work around it and experiment to create very cool little experiments with cool or funny stylings. AI art isn't planning or creation. It isn't a creative styling, it just makes everything look worse. And crucially, it isn't a dev's own style or creativity. Even stock images are an actual choice, you don't choose what a generator spits out.
