@Mark Park cringe no matter how you see it? Oh please! I believe Barbra is a Diva because of her career and because of her attitude and what she says like what she just said here. A woman can be a classy Diva. And I understand that some women classified as Divas can be obnoxious and conceded.
this video focuses too much on diva's. What about singers like Joni Mitchel, Kate Bush, Antony, Robyn, Joan Newsom, Jeff Buckley. Besides singers who can hold high notes a long time and try to impress too much I prefer singers who have a uniqueness to their voice. That is why I'd rather go to a concert of Joan Newsom than Adele.
Mark, « cringe » is cringe. Cringe is actually the worst, most awful, overused word ever made and is not ok to use anymore when you pass 11 years old … Cringe can be used as a lethal combo alongside « problematic » at Tekken or Streetfighter. Cringe needs to be executed, ASAP 👏🏻
I think the most fascinating thing also arises when someone has massive amounts of innate talent, and yet they deliberately put effort and work into developing skill or furthering their talent through dedication and time. Whitney and Celine for example- it’s well known that Whitney since she was old enough to sing a tune was an insanely talented vocalist, but through her mother and the church training she received, she put thousands of hours into developing her voice and working on her skills as a vocalist before she even released her debut album. Celine also had crazy amounts of talent from a young age, and once she hit the big time in the late 80s, she deliberately went to do weekly if not daily sessions with coaches to check and practice her instrument (and still does)- a key example being why in the late 90s, her frequency of using her head voice both live and in studio increased, as well as her comfortability singing in it increased, because she was singled out to play Maria Callas in a biopic, and so worked with Pavarottis vocal coach for a couple of weeks to start developing her skill on top of her talent- the movie fell through, but the training remained. Such an interesting, well made and clearly thought out video concept from you! Well done!!!
I totally agree! Also, I didn't know Celine was supposed to play Maria Callas in a biopic! That explains why Celine's head voice is as wonderful as it is! And thank you!
@@isitmeoryou2543 I think you’ll find- she was asked specifically by Sony, her record label, who were funding the movie if she would play the role after expressing her interest in it back in 95. she then took initiative and auditioned infront of Ken Nagana to see if she was indeed the correct vocal type to play callas, and he said she was. She spent a couple of weeks working with Pavarottis coach to start vocal preparations. Hell, they even booked Kevin Aucoin to do a test shoot, putting her in Callas makeup and taking pictures for the visual tests. Sony had pulled the plug by 1999 due to lack of interest in the project and Celines schedule and planned hiatus. In November of 2007, Entertainment Tonight did a feature about how the Callas project was back on, and Celine had once again been asked to play the role, she said she’d love to but again her schedule prevented her from doing so, so it was another missed opportunity. However it did inspire her to record La Diva. So I’d possibly consider researching these sorts of things before trying to accuse people of not having the right story- it’s not a good look.
@@joselito7776 Not with training. Ken Nagano was the one to identify Celine as the correct fach of soprano to play callas, after Celine did a short excerpt of Carmen for him. Had she continued with the intensive training she had started, I can see no reason why she couldn’t have played Callas.
I think in the 2000's era and beyond, the problem became that record companies instead of pushing singers with talent they tend to push people with the biggest summer hit with total disregard to their ability to sing other songs than the so called "hit" they've scored. This is why we don't see vocal legends these days. during the 90s and prior almost all the mainstream signers had amazing talent unlike the ones we have today. legendary vocals became a total rarity these days.
It's due to the internet, social media and the fact actual records aren't selling anymore. Nowadays you need clicks or streams, so songs become shorter and instant hooks/catchy beats are more important than skill or artistry. There is a spotify/tik tok (etc.) formular many produce by. People don't seem to have the attention span anymore as well, to give artists time to shine on a full album length record or even a longer than 3min. track.... it's sad. Only if it comes with a visually intriguing music video or is by an already established artist people might click.... So of course companies will not focus on pushing actual vocal talent but on whatever results in a lot of streams and clicks on the social platform/streaming sites.
Well hell folks bash the ones who is talented in my opinion I feel Adele ,Jennifer,Beyoncé, Taylor , Ariana , Lady Gaga are the women that are talented and mainstream but their sales aren’t that huge …as the 90’s because most people listen to untalented artists for example Cardi b , Sawettie , Fegie ,
@@bodo887 no, it's about controlling then. You get a talentless girl like Rihanna and you promote them into celebrity status and the they're forever tied to the label cause they don't have any talent to stand on.
I think Christina Aguilera is the perfect example for vocal talent and Beyoncé is the perfect example for vocal skills. Christina is a naturally gifted singer and has a voice that can’t be taught. Beyoncé had a good voice when she first started but over time developed her skill through training and is a phenomenal singer now than she was then.
They’re underrated asf but my prime example of skill and talent are Chloe X Halle as they started it was them being talented then by getting coaches they became skillful in their talent
@@lonspram3922 the problem with them however is the music they put out. Although I like ungodly hour, the music is very niche. Also Chloe solo music is not very groundbreaking. I heard from a friend that Chloe and Halle produce a lot of their stuff. Maybe it’s time to let someone else lead the production of their next project
@@jamesb.3869 I agree with you to an extent. CxH play their own instruments, write their own music, produce their own records, and perform it all by themselves. And they have done this since they were children. They are incredibly impressive prodigies. If they want to experiment and play around with their sound I see no problem with that. I also see no problem with them recruiting collaboration when they want to, as that could help them to create an overall more appealing sound. However, I happen to love their more niche avant-garde stuff. Sugar Symphony is my favorite project from them to date.
I think what's missing in today's singers is real life experience. In generations past, singers like Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, and even Beyonce, went to church every Sunday and both listened to live vocalists, and got endless chances to perform in a space with nice acoustics. It's much easier to train your ears listening in person, and you can get immediate feedback from more experienced musicians. These days most kids grow up in their rooms listening to music on their earpods and might sing a bit alone in their rooms, but that's it. They end up in pop music accidentally because they were beautiful actresses and someone told them they could make an extra buck with an album. Maybe people can catch up in their older teens or adulthood with a great voice teacher, but you'll never be able to afford one for all the hours Whitney got for free at church and with her family. Not to mention, a young child's ears are much more sensitive than an adult's, this is why it's easier for toddlers to learn languages. If you don't develop these skills young, it's an uphill battle.
@@mo6live When did I bash Beyonce? I just said "even" Beyonce went to church, it's not just something people did in the 1950's when Aretha was growing up. It is becoming less common though, and it's a reason vocal quality is declining.
@@LiTim17 it's clear beyonce was not raised in the church based on everything she does and how she sings. She probably went to church but not raised in the church.
When my mother had cancer I started taking voice lessons just to have something positive to focus on. I was amazed and thrilled by the sound my coach could bring out of me. I couldn't afford to continue but I'm still fascinated by the process and the never ending potential for increasing your skill and self expression. I don't know what I'm gonna do with it but it heals me to sing. That's why I do it even if no one can hear me...🤗
@@dontworry1330 I think it's the lovely vibration you emit. With all the ugly news and ugly sounds we hear every day, at least you and I can make music 🎶
I think there’s definitely truth to the fact that many younger artists just haven’t put in their hours, but I also believe a lot of the problem is the ones who do simply don’t get any play. There’s no reward for being a great vocalist anymore. Simply having a great voice does not earn you anything. Being “marketable” does. A lot of these people are more moldable and thus coincidentally happen to be weaker singers. People don’t acknowledge how much of the industry is business. Occasionally you’ll find some Ariana Grandes that have the business sense, ambition and willingness to play the game, the right background and connections, AND have the voice to match, but they’re few and far between.
@@taeslilclown9801 There’s only one impressive singer in Lil Mix. Halle can definitely sing going by that trailer but I don’t think she’s been allowed to vocally show off on pop records. i think it’s because young listeners aren’t drawn to strong talent - makes you unrelatable. Halle is busy hypersexualizing herself to sell and it’s very off putting to mass audiences.
Lara Fabian is a goddess, so underrated. She has killer vocals, becomes the song, great technique, sings in 7 languages and writes and co produces most of her songs.
Yes! I was just about to mention her and saw your comment. :-) And unlike so many singers who have a big range and a can belt and sing high notes and have power, etc, etc - Lara can do all that but makes sure it's only used in service of the story. It's not all just demonstartingspecial effects for the sake of special effects... To me that's the difference between someone who is a vocalist and someone who is an artist.
@@55555gino LOL - I just read the comment to see what you agreed with. You did very well to understand "demonstartingspecial". I really thought I'd typed "demonstrating special". Please pardon my dreadful typing. I'm going to blame it on my keyboard - but I'm not going to say that out loud because it belongs to a union and the next thing I know my phone will get cantankerous on me to teach me a lesson. :-)
Lisa Fischer imo is another perfect example of a vocalist who has talent and a tremendous amount of skill as had extensive training. I really enjoyed this video!
Lisa Fischer is vocally fabulous. I met her a few times at a few of her performances and she is very down to earth,humble and has a sweet demeanor about herself. She is a vocal dynamo. She is THEE last greatest background singer and she is a multi-talented solo vocalist. I never get tired of seeing her live performances.
I have a theory that the singers who have a pretty tone don’t work on their voice because the tone makes up for it.for example people always say they don’t like Beyoncé and Jojo’s tone even though they are some of the best in this singing game.
Jojo has a bad tone because she has unproper technique. She is nasal because she lacks properly developed depth. She should lower her larynx some more to have proper pharyngeal resonance. Beyonce as the contrary has an amazing tone, because she has a properly developed voice. Beyonce's voice was only bland when she was young and lacked some depth. No one who heard her sing now for the first time would ever say she has a bad tone.
@@Ignasimp interesting cause I think jojos tone is one of the prettiest I've ever heard. Jojos last album and EP good to know and trying not to think about it, her tone is so beautiful from her head voice to her low notes. along with tori kelly. Whitney and Celine those are some of the prettiest voices ive heard. Beyonce has a lack of prettiness in her tone for me but def has the skills and talent
@@tiffanyelainestubbsfarrull2204 well, both Jojo and Tori have very squeezed and small voices. They might be percieved as pretty, but they are unhealthy and to the trained ear quite ugly. I can hear the tension when they sing it's very annoying, to me. They are talented and surely have skill, but the lack development of registers.
Regarding the question of why powerhouse vocalists aren't as common nowadays - I recommend watching "Why the new girls can't sing" by Black Music Archive. I think they provide some useful insight!
Does the trending music these days cater to powerhouse vocalists? They're obviously out there and you see them going viral, but for some reason people aren't buying into them as much.
@@eeee8479 that’s cause record companies aren’t pushing that out , and when someone who actually can sing comes outs people will say she/he is too aesthetic
I’ve always said this: Beyoncé is an educated technical singer. However, she does not have a voice that stops my soul. Whereas Whitney, Barbara, Celine…chilling
Talent is natural ability. Skill is learned ability. Barbra Streisand may have never had professional vocal lessons, but she did pick up vocal skills, even if they were self-taught through trial and error. Without a minimal level of both talent and skill, no singer could produce music enjoyable for anyone. The thing to avoid for EVERY singer is to never become lazy and complacent. Regardless of your level of talent and skill, never stop striving to learn more and do better, because there is ALWAYS room for improvement, even for the best of the best!
i feel like in this day and age as long as you have the vocal talent and the looks, that's all you may need to make in the industry and its true, it isn't about skill anymore. all these new singers sound generic but it works for them because they still made it big. Imo, skill will always win.
I've always found it interesting how dismissive we are of skill. We want to connect. The science of vocalization is the theory of a process creating a "sound". It's refining. It's building on a talent. Barbara hit it on the head. It happens naturally. The work of all artists is to refine and build on the foundation you already have.
Thank you for really discussing what is involved in being a skillful singer! I trained for years and it’s honestly so disappointing to see what is popular these days. There is a reason why women like Barbra, Whitney, Celine, and Maria are considered legends in the industry. Yes, because they are talented, but mostly because they are SKILLFUL VOCALISTS. It’s one thing to be a singer, it’s another thing to be a vocalist!!
I think Beyoncé is a textbook example of practice makes perfect. She’s put in the work to be the skillful vocalist she is today. Technically an amazing singer..but there are other artists out who I feel were more naturally talented vocalists. Not taking anything away from her but I think that’s why some may not take her as serious when it comes to the greatest vocalists conversation
Beyoncé natural talent : her first trainer confirmed, it's god given, he said that before any training, Beyoncé kid had the best vocal technique that every professional and trained adult he coached, he said he was impressed the first time he heard , "wow is this the new Tina?" , and cited other great black singers, people aren't serious because she dances, and is very famous, and because free hate, you can't turn Taylor or Britney into star listed vocalist. she already had natural talent!
💀💀 umm why is your point.. are you trying to say it’s better vocalists then bey or are you trying to say some are more naturally gifted opposed to her without the training because either way it just sounds dumb af
@@fernandodiniz6029 sir. Just because one.vocal coach said that don't mean she out ranks ppl. Shes always been talented but the vocal coach made her the beyonce we know who yall think can sit next to Whitney, Aretha. No doubt she can BLOW no doubt she's excellent vocalist.
Barbara isn’t a great singer, imo. She’s a good singer but her saying she never took lessons isn’t anything shocking lol. Most black singers have never took lesson until much later in their careers. Many black singers sang in church consistently which made them skilled and worked their muscles. Also many black singers are grossly underrated while other singers of other deliveries are grossly overrated. 🤷🏿♂️
@@alonzoclarkston1781 Lmaooo, not really. I’m not sure how her album sales, ticket sales, vocal capability, vocal longevity and industry longevity constitute being a “flop”.
@@alonzoclarkston1781 the only female singer that has sold more albums than Celine is Madonna. And you consider that a flop? Lmao Oh you’re a Mariah stan. Shocker. Lambs stay embarrassing themselves…
@@alonzoclarkston1781 oh dear clearly your comment is a flop. LoL whether you LIKE Céline's voice or repertoire or choices or not, by no definition could she be considered a flop. If SHE is a flop there is a WHOLE lot of FLOPS in your life. LoL
Music is like fashion. I feel that during the 90s, big ballads were the ‘in’ thing, hence the rise of Whitney, Mariah, and Celine. Sure they are talented and skilled, but also their popular repertoires allowed them to showcase their vocals. That was what’s marketable. And of course these three ladies were beautiful too, adding to their marketability. 70s - Rock (AC/DC, Pink Floyd, Queen) 80s - Pop (Michael Jackson, Madonna, Elton John) 90s - Ballads (Vocal Trinity) 00s - bubblegum pop (Britney, Christina, BSB) 08-10s - Dance pop (Lady Gaga etc.) I’m sure there are tons of great singers with talents and skills at every era, but they tailor their music to what is trendy. Unfortunately, big voices are just not the ‘in’ thing right now, and hasn’t been aside from the 90s tbh.
I fully agree with this video; and especially with that final statement! Many of the popular singers these days aren’t lacking talent, they’re lacking SKILL! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 So much untapped potential
Streisand is the gold standard... she obviously has the talent, but the skill and soul are off the charts; a master class in how to bring the listener in to feel the song. As a renowned lyricist once said..."The best singer that any lyric writer could ever have." She has a way of expressing lyrics through song like a three-act play. You can actually see the story of the song unfold. And rare today, you can understand every word out of her mouth. No lyrics needed. She's simply the GOAT.
They are talking about talent either you got it or not if you was born with it sing if its there it will come out with Grace and flair then you will be the BEST SINGER
Yeah. Her voice is amazing but her ability of interpreting lyrics is mind blowing. There are many singers who are too focused on their voices while singing. Streisand is not one of them. She doesn't have to think about notes she wants to hit. That's why she can focus on lyrics. And - interestingly - she loves working with lyricists. She worked with Sondheim for many months while recording her Broadway Album.
Beyoncé natural talent : her first trainer confirmed, it's god given, he said that before any training, Beyoncé kid had the best vocal technique that every professional and trained adult he coached, he said he was impressed the first time he heard , "wow is this the new Tina?" , and cited other great black singers.
Quite unrelated to the whole theme of the video but sharing due to the Xtina clip. I somehow feel that technical singing or having the proper technique and vocal development always gets the unfounded criticism of diluting the emotive value of a performance even when "emotions" in singing is a very subjective parameter. Personally, I find that technique is more liberating than restrictive in terms of allowing an artist a wider range of sound to incorporate in their music, thus helping increase their artistry/emotive value of their singing. I feel like this criticism stems from people having a black and white view of vocal technique. Black church folks squall, growl, and belt/mix very high but have so much core and development in their voice, who is to say that emotive/emotionally charged singing can't co-exist with technique?
I mean, that's Christina's perspective, which doesn't surprise me. I think it's a bit oversimplified but there's some truth to it. Emotions can enhance the performance and elevate it to a new different level. And I absolutely think that technique and emotions can coexist! (and even should)
I think it's a little more complicated than that though. Yebbas the perfect example of what people say emotion is. Yebba is a technical singer, yes. However, she can be very quick to pull away from technique when emoting like in My Mind (She used technique as a backing, but she exhausted the hell out of her voice. You could tell by the end of the performance that her voice was tired.) It should also be said that Yebba has an advantage to her voice, as her larynx is naturally high and she has a natural level of husk to her voice that makes her voice naturally more emotive than most peoples. Same thing with Donna Missal and Shoshana Bean. Both are very emotive singers, but neither of them have traditionally technical voices. They have technique, but not to the degree that be anything astonishing. They rely more on their vocal development (how strong the vocal folds are) instead of anything super technical. They don't focus on technique, they just let their voice do what it needs to do to cope whilst they get creative with their voices. The issue is that emotions, naturally, cause you to use different types of tension and postures that just aren't good when singing. When you're happy your mouth spreads, when you're sad you voice compresses, when you're angry your voice distorts, when you're disgusted you mouth becomes widespread and you limit the space in your mouth. And there's different levels to this as well, and different combinations of different emotions. If you aren't using those same types of tension, your audience can tell and your performance will come across as more fake. Technique and emotions can exist in the same performance but you can't have both at the same time. Even more technically correct forms of distortion are limited in how much emotion they can get across without some form of (argued to be) untechnical help.
I really appreciate everything you've said here. It was very well said. For me the thing that always raises my heckles when someone says talent vs skill is when they use talent as a way to undermine the skill a vocalist has. Some people are really determined to make out that the talented are somehow less skilled despite the fact that what they are doing is demonstrating high level of skill. Also your runs are coming along so nicely.
Beyonce is a star-rated vocalist. She would have never ever been able to become that if she wasn’t talented (born) with the gift of singing. This shows you can’t buy a great voice. It has to be there first and then training enhances it to the highest level.
@@GarageStudio7 I disagree with Christina (given that there are arguments there) but most definitely Adele. Adele? Did you just say that mediocre-to-average-singer-with-an-emotive-tone Adele was born with more vocal talent than Beyonce? I strongly disagree. Adele was even classically trained in the prestigious Brits School (the British equivalent to the prestigious American Julliard Music School) but all that training didn’t take her voice even to A or B rated vocalist. If excellent classical training cannot get you to Star-rated level then it’s because there wasn’t a raw/untrained star-rated level voice in the first place. I believe star-rated vocalists are born with the potential to reach that level with classical training.
@@squarcircle2254 Adele & Christina are more naturally talented & that's what they relied on. They developed some skills along the way (especially Christina) however Beyonce has extensively trained for decades. When you compare them in their youth it is evident. Christina Aguilera at 12 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gWsqPWApGXM.html Beyonce singing at 12 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CUUvwZB6kLQ.htmlm12s Beyonce singing at 19 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1ej4LsbbIKk.htmlm35s Adele singing at 19 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Zf6dQxQURXE.htmlm9s The Brit School is a performing arts and technology training college ie. specializes in many things; Adele didn't go there for technical training and she has stated herself that she is untrained compared to Leona was classically trained. Adele mainly worked on her demos there plus played instruments.
EXACTLY. People must stop playing with Beyoncé’s vocal talent. Beyoncé won a singing contest back when she’s just seven years old which is a prime example of how vocally talented girl she is. You can’t make that sh*t up.
@@GarageStudio7 Adele studied Performing Arts and Tech at the Brits school. She didn’t just go there with a demo. You relise it was her secondary school from the age of 13/14 to 19, right? Music, Opera, and theatre are among some of the disciplines of Performing Arts, meaning Adele would have majored or minored in any of those disciplines. Leona Lewis and Jessie J, who attended the same school were music classmates with Adele. There’re accounts of other of Adele’s classmates who said while they’re in class, composing music or singing, Adele would come in late to school or get into trouble. It’s clear she’s had vocal training, she just wasn’t able to excel in it, hence her below average technique. And boy oh boy the videos you pulled out to compare are not comparable. 12 year old Christina wasn’t running around a stage, while trying to maintain pitch like 12 year old Beyonce. I was more impressed by Xtina’s singing but there’s nothing to say Beyonce wouldn’t match her if all she did was to stand still. And there’s no way on earth that 19 year old Adele’s performance showed that she was more talented/gifted than Beyonce at that age. By the age of 19, Beyonce had already sang Bug A Boo. Have you listened to Beyoncé’s very strong melismic vocals on Bug A Boo and great transition? It’s a very vocally demanding song even for seasoned adult vocalists. But 17 year old Beyonce pulled it off, doing things with her voice that no version of Adele has ever shown. So comparing 19 year old Beyonce singing “Say My Name”, which is another vocally demanding song, while running up and down a live stage, to 19 year old Adele, who was just sat in one spot, isn’t a strong argument. The question is, could 17 or 19 year old Adele sing Bug A Boo or Say My Name to 17 or 19 year old Beyoncé’s standard, even if she was just sitting down or standing still? Can she surpass it, which would prove that she was more gifted at that age than Beyonce? There’s absolutely nothing to show that she could. But can 17 or 19 year old Beyonce pull off all of 19 year old Adele’s songs (and all of Adele’s songs in general)? Yes. Her voice at that age showed she had all the vocal tools to pull them off.
I respectfully disagree with "Soul". Musicality is more a matter of artistry to me. Folks often disregard strong singers because they're not musically a fan.. (cough Beyonce), and likewise there's mediocre vocalists who are considered better than they are because people love the art.. (cough Adele). **Dont come for me Adele / Beyonce fans its just an analogy 😅** Soul to me is relative to what the listener wants. I will continue to acknowledge Beyonce as one of the best singers while I listen exclusively to Adele 😂
a lot of people think singing with soul is singing ballads. that's why beyonce doesn't get recognition for it. i love adele and think she sings with so much soul, but when beyonce sings resentment, for example, THAT'S TRUE SOUL!! but people just don't see it because she's a performer more than a ballad singer.
Soul is a singer’s ability to convey emotion and feeling through their voice Musicality is an innate talent an artist has for music, and their ability to create and work with it
@@ErestuPedro Absolutely. I wasn't denying Beyonce has soul, or that Adele can sing. I just meant that Soul is moreso artistic while Singing is moreso physical and a science. A poor singer can make great music and great singer can make poor music.
@@moovoodoo1773 I disagree. I would say musicality is really anything that's artistically tasteful for music. "Soul" is inherently a form musicality. Singing - is a science, it's a physical act that requires muscles lol. How you choose to sing (soulfully or otherwise) is a matter of art, so you can have all the musicality and soul in the world but still have no ability to sing.
Beyoncé has been born with a special ear to music, not only voice, or talent for singing, she has a combination of 3 ,because it is a listed star vocalist, she is 1 in a million, she's been a vocal coach and vocal arranger since she was a fucking child, that's not common, that takes TALENT!!!
Yes, she's been a vocal coach and vocal arranger since she was a child, people praise Girls Time and DC's vocal harmony, saying it's the best vocal harmony, in a group, but do they know that Beyoncé who did it?, she encouraged girls to do more , you can, again, and again, stronger, softer, and more, and taught to how go to the correct key.
No one is saying Beyonce isn't talented. But Barbra Streisand's voice is otherworldly. She was born with a "voice". Beyonce had training from childhood to become a good singer. But she's as interested in being a good dancer as she is singer, and Barbra is PURE vocals. Period! She doesn't need a whole circus on stage to have people pay to come see her.
@@jog8483 her talent is her musical ear which is what she used to enhance her voice she could always sing if you ask me Barbra Streisand and Beyoncé has very similar voices they’re both medium in power, both agile, both clear, both has range and both could sing any genre they also have tones that are less soulful and more colorful which is why they can both sing any genre.
@@ttdeity5869 Sorry, no. I don't agree. Barbra is on another level. Again, it was entirely God-given and Beyonce worked hard to get to this point. I don't hate her for it. Beyonce sounds great. But, it's not a natural talent, it was something she worked for. And I don't know what your fixation is with her ear. I'm talking voice. Barbra was born with what she has. Beyonce worked to get to what she has. Also, Barbra's mother was a great singer (like Mariah's mother & Whitney's), so it helps to have it in your DNA too.
I loved this format! I truly enjoy it! And your are right talent without training and practice will end very Quick and eventually can have a negative effect on your instrument... and for sure in the actual world where we moved as fast as possible and artists put out music over and over again, the focus on training that talents and hability is going on the loose little by little.
@@patricedecourcy4505Whitney's rendition of the national anthem is likely unmatched, one for the ages. And that is an extemely difficult song to sing, along with "I will always love you". No one sings those difficult songs like Whitney. Period.
@@raynettescoggins702 then you clearly don’t understand the definitions…. Beyoncé is a versatile and technical vocalist! Shes trained in Opera and Singers revere her Vocals!
I love this video. I was blessed with the natural gift of singing and I never took vocal lessons either. But I'm self taught and practice did make me learn certain things but prior to that I never really did anything wrong vocally. But some people really need to train and enhance what they naturally have. This could be one of my favourite videos of yours. Keep up the good work.
Living in the Philippines, being a professional singer is extremely hard. Not to mention the recognition you will get will take a tremendous effort. Joining local singing competitions here and there, eventually winning and hoping talent scouts will see. You build the connections and have a manager to find you work. If you have connections and a manager they may know someone in the entertainment industry for you to join this or that talent show or, nowadays help you go viral (these don't happen just because of talent or skill), eventually landing a record deal... Or nepotism.
The biggest conspiracy is that apparently Olivia Rodrigo grew up singing in a way we would appreciate more vocally. But she's almost dumbing her sound down into a Taylor Swift esque pop package. I'm so curious about it.
Olivia is Taylor's fan and she listened to her while growing up, so it makes sense her vocal style has some similarities with Taylor's. We create our style by people we listening to. Taylor for example was influenced by Britney Spears, starting sentences with vocal fry for example. Every singer has influences that formed their vocal style.
@@SuperPianogirl123 I'm outside of the age that would have watched that. But I saw a few threads on twitter of her back in the day singing wildly different (and better) I don't want her team to do her a Britney (who had a promising vocal talent before studios said aht aht)
There's also a theory that Christina Aguilera was also forced to sing with anlower larynx to give her a unique sound like Britney. But I saw that one video of her singing as a kid and her technique was somewhat already there.
At 3:51, I can relate to that. Also, JoJo. She has a great technique, and is a very sensual artist, but her anx/ety and stage fright has been getting in her way since the late 2010s upto date
I feel like what is "in style" in music can influence the kind of vocalist you get too ! In pop music nowadays, singers seem to put a lot of effort into having a unique tone instead of sheer power like before
Nobody, I repeat, nobody, is born with a technically great voice. It is impossible. Name any great vocalist (Aretha, Whitney, Mariah, Celine, Beyonce, Lisa, Rachelle Farrell etc). None of them was born with the musical gift we all know them for. Yes, they were all born with musical talent (the potential for a great voice) but would have only been able to reach these levels of musical power through classical training and more training. It is the mixture of their innate musical talent and their extensive training that brought them to where they are.
This is stupid mostly because you have insanely talented people who don’t need training while Beyoncé literally learned how to sing well. It’s why you have singers who may not be technically gifted yet because of their naturally innate talent still sound well.
I think anyone who grew up in the church in the choir would disagree. There was a prodigy I sang with who just new how to sing. Some people are truly gifted. Even look at the tapes of Jasmine Sullivan or lauryn hill as children. They would like grown women
@@jasminewilliams1673 There’s a great difference between being able to sing great and being able to sing technically great. All those church people and everyone else you mentioned would not sound technically great without training or knowledge unless they copied how to sing from a technically trained person. Your prodigy would have come out of the womb with the potential for a technically great voice but they won’t magically have it. You can sound great as a vocalist, without training, but doesn’t mean you’re technically great. Almost every church I know gives classical training lessons to its singers.
@@ladysasha90 no need to use the word “stupid”. You can make your point without calling names. It works. Try it more. Like I said, no one is born with a technically great voice. Being born with perfect pitch, is the first sign of having a potential for a great voice but doesn’t mean you have mastered your voice and music technically. That’s absurd. Beyonce doesn’t just “sing well”, she’s a vocal beast and has a technicality rivaled only by Mariah. But, Beyonce would have never been a Star-rated vocalist, if she didn’t have the talent (the potential for great voice) she wouldn’t reach that level. I’ve seen random people, born without the talent, try and try with classical training and they just simply lack the pitch. You can’t buy the talent, but you must buy the mastery or be taught by a master or professional in singing.
Ariana Grande, Beyonce, Madison Beer, Lauryn Hill, Dua Lipa. Few examples of average to subpar singers in their early years who worked their ASS off to earn the respect they have today. To me that’s incredibly inspiring. Of course just because you’re talented doesn’t mean you don’t put in the work like Mariah or Whitney or Christina. Artist who were clearly gifted from above. But it’s so much more difficult to start from nothing and make something out of it.
I remember an interview I read in high school decades ago about an African singer from the DRC it think, Lokua Kanza. When he became popular, people kept on saying how talented he was,how great his voice was, he said he was not a big believer in talent, that he choose to believe in work. You could have natural dispositions, but working at your craft was the only way to be better. Talent too often implied that you do not have to make efforts to be good. I was 10 or 12 when I read that, and it really changed the way I look at performing arts or art in general to be honest.
training is required for all of us naturally gifted to grow in our talents to be stronger in vocal technique. Whitney, Michael, Beyonce, everyone sang in church and was trained one on on to develop the voice as the voice is always changing.
Exactly. Ppl just trying to find new ways to discredit Beyoncé. Beyoncé IS talented and she IS one of the most skilled vocalists in music rn. That’s just what it is.
One of the best examples for me is Freddie Mercury and Adam Lambert. Freddie was a pure talent, as far I know he did only a few classes when he was young. But when I heard Adam siging his songs, I could notice the thechnic way more too present. He sang every note in the right place, without even forcing. But Freddie, with almost no technic, is one of the best singers we ever know.
it is probably hard to focus on mastering your talent and skills when you have to be bigger and bigger faster and faster: i think that is one of the main problems with the new girlies. there is no time for character building as an artist and performer, albeit (or maybe because) most of them start very very young in age. the time to sit down, pause or stop and reflect about one's identity is paramount for one's artistry and the fact that we have a global music industry - and i also include here the audiences/fans as part of it - that consumes and devours anything fast and mindlessly, may be one reason for us having the feeling the age of great singing divas is gone for good (and it probably is). one interesting consequence is that we have these young artists who are very very talented in some way shape or form, but they lack confidence in what they're capable of doing. have you ever wondered why most of your young faves are constantly having panic attacks or being diagnosed with general anxiety syndrome and whatnot? the MINDS of young artists have been deteriorating for years in this voracious business model, consequently they're not being able to find their SOULS as artists and for sure they'll be destroying their BODIES. i'm sorry for the essay lol..... but finally, it's easy to only blame the greedy entertainment companies and record labels for that. but what has been OUR contribution as consumers and fans? how many of us have really been asking ourselves about how we consume music and art, taking for granted whatever toll that takes on the performers?
I can’t believe that one demential people have not understood how emotions are not only Sad, Timid, Melancholy, heartbreak. There are such a thing as excitement, thrilling, anger, determination, grit, etc. don’t let your preferences cloud your judgement. Definitely is talented & skilled.
There’s definitely some skilled/technically proficient singers out there who have loads of natural talent but you find that they’re not so much the main stream: Tori Kelly, and Clark Beckham for example have the range, riffs and expertise AND they also write they’re own music and play instruments. However, a lot of the more popular music is so image based that I think a lot of these vocalists who are more talented than the big names don’t fit the “mold” of what’s popular as far as song writing, image, etc. But honestly, I think a lot of them don’t really care if they’re famous, they just wanna sing and make music. And man, can they sing! 👏🏼
I don't like how Christina makes it seem like if you sing properly, you're losing soul when you can absolutely do both. Aretha and Whitney are prime examples of this.
Christina’s quite lazy as a singer, stuck in her ways (vocally) and relying solely on her talent. She doesn’t realise that with training, talent is nurtured. It’s what allows professionals to sustain belted notes, night after night, eight shows a week; unlike her, who perfects a studio recording whilst never being able to replicate it live (prime example from her debut era being I Turn To You). She has great natural agility so she likes to compensate for her lack of training by showing off with runs, but even then, her lack of musical training is palpable because her runs (especially during her debut era) were all similar in sound and not following musical keys; she just riffed all over the place. Streisand actually wanted to understand the physiology of singing; Christina (in her own ‘masterclass’) just relies on ‘feeling’ and fails to articulate how she can produce the sound she can, so she cannot teach others either.
This video has made me realize that while I'm talented, I'm not 100% sure that I'm skilled despite singing from a young age. I want to cultivate my talent and gain skill.
One of the greatest singers of all time is Donna Summer. She had the natural talent and a skill that no other singer had, Donna could sing any type of music anywhere at anytime and acapella. She won Grammy awards from Rock to Dance. Aretha, Barbra, Patti LaBelle and so many said Donna had one of the greatest voices and they also said she was the most underrated singer in pop music history. Donna Summer's name should be mentioned in every conversation about great female singers. Flawless. Pitch perfect. Never a misfire. And the power! She made it all look effortless. Donna one of the most powerful, and beautiful singers that ever graced us with her amazing talents.
Not everyone was born to be a vocalist, like Beyonce is both skilled and talented, she knew how to sing before any training, CRistina trains, her mother and father are musicians, and all she can do to this day is scream, and put her voice in her throat , to try to have a black soul voice
My issue with the idea of talent, is that when I was younger I want so bad to be a singer but I never told nobody, because I thought they will laugh at my face because my voice is not pretty, but now that I'm older, I realize that I could just go with a singer teacher and they would teach me how to sing, and I probably would learn and sound amazing now
I believe anyone with dedication to honing a skill can easily surpass a person with "talent" who isn't dedicated enough, which is why I like your take on the video. One of the things my singing teacher always says is that anyone can sing, and lots of professionals where we live dismiss people who don't have great music perception or don't sing well enough for a beginner, and that's such a waste. I've seen people come and go from classes who sang with soul, despite lacking confidence or not being as skilled as others, so I really hate this idea that you need talent to start something. You just need will to learn, willingness to make mistakes and sound really bad 😅 Also, I'm taking this debate on nowadays artists lacking skills to my classes. I love discussing some of your video ideas with my teacher, thanks for the content ❤
Something that people might not think about as well is that your speaking technique affects your singing voice. I always had to do lots of warm ups to get my soft palate into the right position to sing... And it wasn't until a teacher pointed out this was because of how I spoke on a day-to-day basis, I was basically undoing all the work I was doing in class, so each time had to put a lot of technical work into the warm up. Since becoming conscious of my speaking technique, it takes less time and I can now project my voice when I need to speak louder. Barbara might be someone who had a good speaking technique already so singing came easily to her.
she practiced a lot a lot, but she didnt take a lot of lessons. thats the meaning behind skill, intentionally taking lessons and going out of the way to train compared to training in a more chill manner
@@oceanamelodies8062 Barbra had many coaches even in her youth. She was cultivating the belief that she is a once in a lifetime talent because that was her thing.
Anyone that gets to the level of proficiency these women have has a lot of natural talent. And all of them worked for it too. It's the combination of both things.
Unborn talent is such a peculiar topic for me. It’s not that you were born with the ability, you just grew up doing something, in this case singing, in a very correct way without knowing
Yeah, I think many of the current pop girlies have the talent, they just lack the skill. We still have amazing vocalists, like Beyonce, Kelly Clarkson, Tori Kelly, and JoJo who have both the skill and the talent. But all those pop girlies, like Camila Cabello and Britney Spears, absolutely have the talent, they just don't have the skill. And the problem is there's not really any reward for being a great vocalist anymore. Nowadays it's all about being "marketable" that's why in previous generations we had SO MANY great vocalists compared to nowadays. Whitney, Mariah, Celine, Barbra...I can go on and on. And what's legendary about Mariah is that she mastered her technique so even though she had vocal nodules she still became one of the greatest vocalists of all time. Whitney, Celine, and Barbra had the talents and they took the time to master their skills. That was something that was credited at that time. And, even now, we should credit people like that, who have talent and then take the time to master the skills.
@@michaelgreisinger5255 exactly and she does this amazing difficult riffs and intricate vocal acrobatics,no singer with poor technique would be able to do that, the people saying she has bad technique are just haters...
There countless videos of Barbra in the studio working hard to hold those impressive long notes (to exhaustion). She simply makes the end-product look easy but make no mistake she works hard to deliver those moments we hear in her recordings. Most importantly, she took car of her body, mind, and soul over the years and not abused herself with drugs. We have the recent example of another talent who could have been a super-legend but unfortunately got involved in drugs leading to a deterioration in her voice and premature death. There are levels, are Barbra sits at the top of the talent mountain.
There is just no way Barbra didn't take lessons or wasn't taught or that she didn't train. Voices are not like that magically. Singing is a skill. At that time it was considered better if you weren't trained and you had a god-given talent because it ment you were some kind of prodigy or chosen one. So they marketed themselves as suck. Mariah did the same saying she didn't know how many octaves she could sing. So she would allow for people to speculate and make her legend bigger.
You really don't need a teacher if you grow up surrounded by music and have a natural talent. If someone has talent and grows up in an environment to be able to practice on their own they can develop an amazing voice all on their own simply by mimicking. Of course a teacher can help but a teacher can also ruin a naturally given gift if they try to press the student into a certain mold. I am sure Mariah Carey for example wouldn't have her unique tone and voice if she had a teacher forcing her into learning or singing musical theater style.... Mariah's mother was an opera singer, so she grew up in the perfect environment to develop a good ear for music but she preferred to sing Aretha Frankling and those classic soul divas and the fact her mom let her just develop her voice feely caused her to produce this one of a kind style more or less all on her own.
@@bodo887 Mariah grew up imitating her mother doing exervices too. Of course you don't need formal training to be a great singer if you can learn from people close to you. A teacher only hurts a voice by trying to teach hurtful technique. There are a lot of terrible singing teachers that teach mask singing and mixing and twang other bs. Mariah could have been ever greater if she had trained with a great teacher.
@@Ignasimp Yes, of course you need an environment that allows you to develop your talents/grow your skills. No one just opens their mouth and instantly sounds like the greats but I doubt you need to pay for actual lessons or pay for a teacher. I have seen many teachers that overly focus on technique and sounding "proper" but then in the end that leads to their students all sounding very basic/almost the same and emotionally sterile. So, I don't think a teacher always helps and can hinder a young student from developing their own unique voice. It has to be a good teacher that allows the student to develop their own voice, even if they might not sing the "classical" way. There are many great vocalists that in many teachers' eyes have "bad technique" but exactly that is what makes them popular and unique.
I think talent definitely is helpful when it comes to becoming a skilled singer but it has limits to it and without skill most talented singers will develop bad habits that can ruin them in the long run In my experience talent is mostly an advantage once you put the time into developing skill For me, a lot of people consider me talented because I have an innate understanding of how to match pitches and control my tone and can emotionally connect with songs...when I'm not in my head the problem was that I lacked technique and mentally I've always struggled with confidence so outside my tessitura my voice was strained and short on stamina and under pressure I'd often lose my confidence meaning that despite being "talented" I couldn't consider myself GOOD I found that when I first tried to stretch my range outside of my comfort zone or sing with more power because I had no foundation I injured myself and started losing my voice rendering my "'talent" useless In some ways not having talent might have made it easier to learn because I wouldn't have been so accustomed to sounding good and would have focused on things feeling healthy and sustainable. but I had to spend this entire year teaching myself how to sing all over again without strain and it's been a long and frustrating process. Though definitely worth it in the end I agree that the west has a large number of talented singers but I think that many of them neglect to become skilled and thus limit themselves to only their comfort zone and struggle with longevity and more difficult pieces.
We have vocalists in our generation. The problem is looks and sex appeal supersedes talent these days so those with talent and skill are overshadowed by those who fit an aesthetic and are willing to capitalize on their sex appeal.
Social media/streaming era has made mediocrity popular. We stream bad songs because it doesn’t cost us anything while years ago if people didn’t buy yo shit you were out! Yes there were bad songs years and years ago but talent was able to thrive. Now every mediocre artist with barely any talent who can get the clicks is praised and talent can’t thrive because it’s “boring”.
I watched a similar video where someone said that people aren't getting their 10,000 hrs before becoming famous. They aren't getting the music education training in school since the arts are underfunded now while Artist development is basically non-existent now as well
If I’m being honest one of my biggest pet peeves is when talented singers(specifically pop divas) insist their skills were “God given”. This is very misleading because although God gave them natural talent, he also gave them the tools and abilities to practice. For example Whitney group up in church so she got both decent training, and hours of practice. Mariah’s mom was a vocal coach and she put Mariah into doing professional gigs from the time Mariah was 12. Many people think that singing is something you are only born with which is probably a biproduct of this “God given” myth.
Typically the god of this world is the one that gives them their talent 🥴 Beyoncé has literally talked multiple times about “something taking over her when she performs.” Yeah that’s a demon
LOVE this video. Thank you for pointing out the constant misnomer of 'talent.' It takes tons of work and skill. I never let anyone call me a talented singer, I had to WORK.
As a singer with amazing vocals, I will say this; mainstream media has an agenda. I've been in the music industry for awhile and unless your famous on social media labels don't care. However, I got money now so I'm going to be pushing my music out there regardless of label support. I, like so many skilled artists deserved to be heard.
I think modern audience just values different vocal skills more. And that's why the vocalists focus on them. Take one of the best vocalists on modern popular scene - Noga Erez. Her style is close to rap, but it is also very refined. It can be seen that a lot of training went into her voice in the areas that count. And it is not coloraturo, of course.
Talent/gift is something one is born with. They are naturally excellent at something (in this case singing & having great sense of pitch & rhythm). Mariah, Barbara, Whitney, Pavarotti etc Skill is something you attain overtime when you practice consistently. **Of course people born with talent have to practice and nurture their talent in order to remain refined. In the past the record companies would have this sort of "camp training " or "artists development" programs set up for their artists to nurture their talents and keep their images clean. So, they would have media training, performance classes, vocal coaches etc. The problem today is that is doesn't exist. Artists/celebrities are readily accessible (social media) and people are out here talking crazy on the internet or in interviews; they're singing any kind of way (mostly mumble singing and rapping); making ok music that will not stand the test of time etc etc. Also, the labels are employing any and everybody. Once they have 1 or 2 hits songs they get a deal. Then they don't attain any longevity. Basically the music industry has changed for the worst. It starts with the labels...
I literally thought the main content of the video hadn't started yet when you said "I hope you enjoyed this video" I was so confused lol. But I still liked the video, it was just not what I expected.
