The magic on the device is the HDMI out. View and control the content of your music on a full-size TV. Eversolo's screen was the darling of 2023. Emotiva is partnering with Volumio in 2024 on a new streamer product with high-quality audio out. Perhaps you will be able to open the box and do a deeper dive than other reviewers might. Wiim does not offer HDMI.
The HDMI out is nice, but I wish it had more display themes rather than the 3 (manifest, classic etc.). The Volumio app for Rivo also had a warning that using the HDMI out could degrade sound quality. For a time I believe they disabled it and re-enabled it in a recent firmware update, at least that was my experience.
Thanks for another insightful video Matt. Noise... I have a few pieces of gear that allow me to upgrade the power supplies, the WiiM Pro Plus being one. Adding the LHY 5v battery power bank made a very noticeable improvement of overall sound quality. Power supplies matter. And, I just ordered this Rivo unit, along with a Farad Super 3 linear power supply. I will let you know how it goes when it arrives.
Using a WiiM Pro into an iFi Zen One Signature. Since I was using USB into the iFi, the Power2 wall wart was unused. I bought a barrel/USB-c adapter and the difference in the sound was not subtle when I plugged the Power2 into the WiiM pro. It wasn’t a difference in tone or detail but space. I’m convinced that the biggest difference between budget and higher fidelity lay usually in quality of power supply and output stages.
GM ☕️from Toronto. I run the OG Wiim Pro feeding ( via optical) a Topping E50 DAC ( with an IFI power supply on the DAC ) and isolating pucks under all of it ..and I’d swear the background is BLACK , there’s more low level detail ( studio noises) .abd yes, it makes me wonder 💭 what some higher end steamers have to offer ( ROSE 🌹Streamer ) 🤔🤔 Best of the Christmas 🎄season to you and yours.
Did you experience these : 13thnote hifi reviews says "Initially problems included not finding the Rivo and Primo over the network, not allowing you to type in passwords in the Volumio interface. Both Streamers would keep dropping out as Roon players. There were issues of the album artwork glitching once during an update. Also the players not finding any wired network signal requiring turning off and re-booting. Use in switching between one source - say selecting music using the Roon app and then selecting DLNA music via the Volumio app, was not seamless. Often making selections in one app would lead to no playback change. It would sometimes take 7-8 seconds to refresh album artwork in such cases where such cross-app selections did work. There are also bugs in the text of the app I noticed with text sometimes overwritten over other text. Additionally pressing play and pause buttons in the software which don’t respond."
I did not encounter many of these types of issues but I am also not a Roon user. It's possible the version he was running was the culprit but hard to say for certain. A number of streamers use the Volumio software and where the Rivo is suppose to have an advantage is that their implementation is suppose to be the best since its in house and made for this product rather than a modified interface that someone like IFI uses on their designs. All this being said the Rivo works fine for me and is a nice product but its not as stable or as seamless as other streaming interfaces like what is offered from Eversolo and even WiiM.
On digital systems and noise ... I know a lot of analog focused people worry about noise in things like grounds and power supplies, especially on signal lines and their concerns are often justified because the output signal from one device is fed directly into the input of the next ... noise and all. This however is not true for digital signalling. Noise on a digital cable or power supply is almost irrelevant. The secret is in the way digital signals are transmitted and processed. Yes, the signal on the cable is arguably an analog waveform. But it is *not* an audio waveform. It is a chain of square waves that represent data values in binary. (PCM Samples) In this system, any voltage greater than 2/3 of the power supply is interpreted as a binary 1. Any voltage less than 1/3 of the power supply is interpreted as a binary 0. So with a 3 volt supply (which is typical in digital signalling) any voltage that rises to the 2 -> 3 volt range is a 1. Any voltage below 1 volt is a 0 ... anything between 1 and 2 volts does not cause a change in state. Noise within those regions rarely has enough influence to cause an error and when it does, there are software means to correct it. Okay so we know how to get our binary data back; we just need to capture the chain of 1s and 0s gather them into groups the size of the data containers (usually 8,16, 32 or 64 bits) and then copy them into system memory... Move over one memory slot, capture the next container, move over... and so on... until we have enough data to begin acting upon. Now it is important to understand that we are not acting upon the input signal... that is long gone and forgotten by then. We are acting upon a COPY of the data stored in memory. Noise on the cable is totally irrelevant at that point, we have nice clean data to mess with. If that isn't enough assurance, most digital signalling is now done by differential means, much like balanced audio... the Hot signal is sent right way up but a second Cold signal is also sent inverted (upside down). Noise on the cable will affect both signals equally and thus will be cancelled when differentiated (decoded) at the receiving end... thus noise seldom gets into the input buffer in the first place. This same logic applies whether you are transmitting a signal an inch to the next chip or half way round the world to the next data center... what arrives and what is worked on is always a copy of the original data. In fact with internet relays, it is often a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy... The stuff on the cables and traces is rarely acted on directly beyond the data receiver. This system can be trusted world wide for perfect transfers of data and information. Just think of the massive disaster if just one bit got flipped on one bank account, turning a billion dollars into a thousand... that cannot be allowed to happen. Our digital gadgets work on the same principals. You can trust a USB cord to write and retrieve your most sensitive data ... so yes you can trust it to accurately store and retrieve your audio. The same is true of Ethernet, HDMI and so on. It's all copied, buffered and guarded the same way. The digital realm can be trusted for *exact* copies of data, every time. So if we are hearing and measuring differences between these devices it has to be in the software that is manipulating the data ... not the machine or the cables. Hope that helps.
Currently have 9000A and using internal DAC. How does it Rivo to 9000A compares to direct usb connection to PC? (in my case I connect it to NUC with Roon Rock.
The whole focus on 1' and 0's is detrimental to the explanation. There are no 1's and 0's, there are electrical voltages that represent 1's and 0's. Those voltages are microvoltages, so very weak signals. Like anything electrical, they are sensitive to unwanted influence, like noise from the power supply. Well understood phenomena in electrical engineering. Those 'disturbances' in the electrical signal have impact on the D to A conversion downstream, in the time domai. Something also well understood by now. The fact that different streamers have a different effect on the quality of the D to A conversion and thus on how it sounds (or sound quality) isn't so mystifying. Since most people don't understand this, they keep banging on the 1's and 0's from, but that's just silly. Transport of digital encoded information isn't discrete. Once people start to realise that, they might understand it a bit better. (ps: the impact of streamers on the D to A proces is measurable.).
It seems like it is you who doesn't understand how it really works. 1 AND 0 are really just 1 and 0, how to represent them is just a matter of signal type. There is no "clearer" 1 and 0, but reliability is a factor. USB for example uses a differential signal, which means it is the voltage difference between 2 signals that make up those 1 and 0. So it doesn't matter what kind of interference it has, unless you can work the magic to only interfere with one cable but not the one right next to it to cause faulty signals. Otherwise, the signal is considered "clean". USB allows 1 bit error in 1.25TB. and I beat no one can hear such an error, even when it actually happens. It is that simple. Now some may argue that it is not the signal, but the electricity that carries the signal that's the problem. Well... In that case there's optical. Why don't people use more optical?. Then people usually will say oh, optical needs transceiver to convert the signal, and those electronics are subject to noise... Well.... All electronics have noise... Those tiny pointy solder points are actually tiny antennas that pick up noise. but guess what nothing cares about any of those on the digital side of things. Only when it comes to the analog signals noise would start making a difference, but noise isn't always bad, many of those so called "character" is in fact intentionally added noise. (Modification to reproduction of the recorded sample signal.) Can your DAC chips or whatever DAC device have a problem? Absolutely. Many things can happen to it. And no DAC on Earth can also emulate the electricity environment of the recording device, to give you that perfect recording sound. So really at the end of the day, it never has anything to do with the digital side of things, but it is a matter of taste. So people love those radios low res noise, while others like turned output. Things can get very close to the source, but can never be the source. The source only happens once, in anyone's lifetime. So stop tracing the impossible. And stop blaming all those noises, especially on the digital side of things, that don't have anything to do with anything really. A lot of those, that piece of equipment that happened to match once favor. That's all there is.
Nice review, really dig the tear down section. Also, kudos for even talking about the subject; people tend to loose their minds whenever anyone talks about possible differences between digital sources. Regarding those actual differences that exist between streamers; the thing that most people don't understand is that while they work with 1s and 0s there is key difference between how data is moved through your home router or how data is transferred from off a USB drive to your PC. When data moves between computers over a network or from one storage device to another there are protocols at work that have error correction (because errors are happening) that ensure if there is an error the data gets resent. The connection (the transmitting interface on the streamer and the receiver interface on the DAC) between a steamer and DAC is a real time stream and in that sense the data is handled fundamentally different and error protection techniques like what used over network connections or storage interfaces don't apply. In the case with streamers and DACs the better the stream of "bits" to the DAC the better the potential for better sound which is why things like galvanic isolation, and better power supplies make a difference in streamers despite the fact they are not an active part of the (analog) audio path. All that said I use a Intel NUC as a HTPC to a USB DAC with Plex as the steaming platform. NUCs are some of the worst offenders in terms of noise so its probable what I'm using isn't that great and I'd like to do a comparison with a dedicated streamer at some point.
I will keep tearing down the gear that isn’t too involved, it’s nice to get a look at the components and layout. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well, it’s certainly a topic that fires people up, too many act like it’s some sort of forbidden topic.
@@MattCoykendall1 Not forbidden ... widely misunderstood, thanks to BS from snake oil vendors trying to get a new yacht from selling a couple of dozen USB cables.
I use a NUC for my HTPC as well... The size makes it a natural. Noise wise ... the earphone output on my NUC11 manages to deliver audio at a Sinad of about 70db. My $19.00 Ugreen USB DAC manages 105db ... so I wouldn't be too worried about noise.
So I didn't have nearly the issues with Volumio on this product that I had on iFi's version of it, I would say its been relatively stables, its not as intuitive as someone as simple as WiiM software or Bluesound but I have not had too many issues. What types of issues are you running into?
I’m getting lots of artwork not updating, players timing out and not seamless use between roon and Volumio. Thanks for commentary about saying ‘relatively’ as I’m sure that helps people understand knowing the tough job you do. I think Volumio isn’t a turnkey solution like roon, bluos or wiim etc - it does lots which is the benefit but this is at the cost of stability so people need to consider that. I think the zen stream uses the Volumio software so this is obviously a common theme.
I'm so glad I have come across the rivo I have been looking at comparable streamers some coming in at up to £1500 more. These other streamers may have grate DAC's, screens and names/reputations etc. but all I wanted is the best streamer under say £2,500 . I for one am convinced and the best part is I don't need to save for months.
I had it, and the software was beyond useless. I could not get the stream to work at all. Very frustrating, boxed it up and returned it. I just ordered the Rivo in this video, willing to give Volumio another shot in their own product.
I personally wouldn't want Volumio on a streamer at this price. I have used it quite a bit on a Raspberry Pi and it's fine, but it's just not feature rich or polished enough compared to competitors. I've enjoyed my experience with BluOS and I haven't had first hand experience with Wiim Home or Eversolo software, but I really like what I've seen and would be comfortable giving either one a shot.
Bit perfect is bit perfect. If a streamer is somehow adding noise or taking away from the original digital signal, it is no longer bit perfect. WiiM is bit perfect. You can analyze the signal and compare it to any bit perfect streamer-regardless of price!
Yeah it’s up there, that’s why I mentioned I feel like this is something you consider after you have the heavy hitter items like speakers. I always feel there is sort of a pyramid of returns and this is more like the fine tuning. The other selling point would be the user who prefers the Volumio environment, this includes the premium subscription.
It certainly is expensive, I dont think its really even a competitor to the things I would honestly suggest like alot the WiiM products, I feel that different people are shopping for something like this Volumio, a bit different market segment.
Not really, there are few standalone network DACless streamers out there, especially ones that allow you to bring your own power supply. I wish WiiM would build a unit like this with upgraded internals and their fantastic software. If they do, I will be first in line to purchase.
In order to figure out how one digital device that is essentially a router is going to sound different than another we need a lot more information... Edit: After looking at the software manuals... I see this product massively plays with the received data streams... using volume control, equalization, grouping and other features. Yep, there's a ton of ways this can sound different than other streamers... and they're all in software. If nobody minds too much I'll stay with my PC based solutions and bit-exact outputs.
@@MattCoykendall1 True enough. Different isn't always better. But then better isn't always better. More than once I've seen people spend good money on upgrades that improve their systems quite noticeably ... but now they hear every flaw in their favourite recordings. There actually can be such a thing as "too good". The big deal is to realize that it's the recording and not the gear. IMO... playing with EQ and maybe compression is just fine, especially for movies where the dialog is super quiet. But messing with sample rates and bit depths doesn't measure up. In those cases you are actually adding and removing audible content from the recordings and that tends to change them in unfavourable ways. The transform algorithm is seldom perfect. In my system, which is PC driven, with all the magic in software, I have considerable control over what happens to my music on it's way to the amplifier and speakers. I use Windows "Exclusive Mode" to get bit-exact playback for most files and that's pretty much all I need. But, as above, I do hear the clinkers and stinkers in some of the recordings.
Hate to burst your bubble ... but there's as much misinformation on ASR as anywhere else... it's just technical misinformation instead of the audiophile kind.
@@r423sdex Amir's testing of these devices is indeed very helpful. But once you get into the ASR forums you find a whole bunch of chest pounding and Dunning-Kruger inspired nonsense. The egos there are as fragile as anywhere else and the BS that passes for science is just as ridiculous. I'll give Matt (here) credit... he dives a little deeper than most subjective reviewers, but so far I haven't seen him outstep is skillset... and you can go to the bank betting I would call him on it if he did.
