Hot damn, this is a master class in how to handle behind-the-scenes drama. Write off the character, scorn the actor, but hot damn, give it a reason in world and a satisfying conclusion. Despite the transgressions of Orion Acaba, Tiberius Stormwind was a hero from Draconia, moreover a member of Vox Machina of Greyskull Keep. And *this* is a hero's death. *This* is how you give a character a sendoff
@@criticalroleclips8628 I just want to say that I love the idea of the "Magical Scholar". Tiberius was a "Magical Scholar" more than a wizard or anything else. Whatever exactly happened with Orion Acaba, (I still don't know). C.R hasn't had a single one of it's cast play a TRUE "Magical Scholar" since Tiberius. They've had wizards, and scholarly NPC'S, but NONE of the cast has ever played that role in ANY PARTY. Not since Tiberius. He was always trying to think of new ways to bend or use magic to wonderous effect. No one else has ever even tried. Not really. And as much as I LOVE the whole cast, AND the show "The Legend of Vox Machina" they wrote Tiberius out of the show entirely. Part of me HATES them for that. And I will die on that hill. It may not be popular to say, but it's a hard truth all the same.
@@tomesofawesome8041 There was a lot going on with Orion that the cast of Critical Role has REQUESTED not be discussed any further. They wish for the matter to be put to rest, and put to rest it shall. No more. We do not discuss Orion anymore these days. If you wish to know more, then by all means, google it but do not discuss it any further. Let the matter die. They certainly have moved on.
I don't feel he deserved a hero's sendoff. Tiberius inserted himself, interrupted constantly and took important moments away from others. If it were up to me, he'd fade into obscurity and CR removed the episodes where Orion played in entirely. Terrible person that was a manipulator in and out of game.
@@NativeAmericanKnight when I googled I saw it was health related! So what did truly happen with him? Was it the “half chub” thing??? Like that was kinda out of pocket so I guess that could be it.
It’s the fact that the others didn’t quite realise what Percy was doing at first. Then they all kinda clock on and their reaction are like “oh shit we doing this?” And Matts speech about misfit friends has a whole new meaning to it once you realise what was happening behind the scenes.
Also Marisha saying ‘we can’t even pretend like he was our friend?’ Hits different. Everything really. It was a send off to a character and old friend in game, it feels the cast was also coming to terms with saying goodbye to an old friend in real life, almost grieving the fact it had come to this with Orion behind the scenes.
Re-watching this the bit that catches me every time is Talisan looking at everyone and saying "don't say a word!" He just wanted this to play out and get it over with respectfully. At least until they all realise what is happening.
This is a moment that showed me as much about the characters as it did the players. Percy, who is usually pragmatic to a fault, saw who it was and made sure that he wasn't left up with others. That they did what they could for him in a situation where they didn't have to. No one in Draconia would've blamed them, but they chose to honor their friend.
There's a LOT of emotions going on there. Trying to put myself in their shoes, I bet that was tough. For the characters, the choice is probably easy. For the actors, that's probably a tough subject to even touch.
Travis, don’t think we didn’t see that smirk when you realized who it was lol… Real talk though, yes… you are all correct… this is an excellent way to respect a character, without saying anything for the actor
I don’t know if the smirk was about just the character. There are a lot of moments throughout C1 where Matt pulls off something brilliantly unexpected and Travis has that smirk of respect and, you sneaky bastard.
Even after everything Orion did Its so noble that they put in the time to give his great CHARACTER an awesome sendoff This is for Tiberius, not Orion in my opinion
It can be for both Tiberius and Orion. Yes, Orion's bad behavior was there for everyone to see, but that doesn't mean he didn't spend years with them, and that it wasn't probably a really hard decision for them to let him go. Relationships can be complicated. They did the right thing, but it was surely not easy.
@@thecognitiverambler8911 They were mourning for Orion certainly. They were mourning their friend, the guy they had known for so long, the guy they had loved. I think in their hearts they knew deep down they would never see their friend again, and in a very real way, this was them making peace with that. I've been through similar things, and it is heartbreaking.
This gets even more emotional when you think that even though we only knew Tiberius for twenty seven episodes, he was part of the game for two years off camera. Can’t imagine how much it sucks for a group that seems so tight-knit to realize that one of them was hiding such nasty true colors, and even then they still gave his character a huge amount of respect that they didn’t have to give.
wait "nasty true colors"? i thought he was considered just a THAT GUY at the table? was there more than that? I havent seen the videos so thats why im asking....
@@jingthethief He’s also been proven to have abused his girlfriend, stolen Kickstarter and charity money for his own purposes instead of the intended ones (aka the reason people donated), and he absolutely lost his shit on a fan for making a Tiberius shirt because Tiberius is his intellectual property and it got so bad that other members of the group (I think Travis?) had to do damage control.
@@emerald9194 to be fair to the guy it's also apparently true that he was involved in substance abuse and was not in a healthy way. It's not uncommon for an addict to behave in ways that thet otherwise wouldn't or commit petty crimes like stealing to fund their addiction. Obviously being an addict doesn't justify his actions but it's important context. It's not that he was just a very bad person, he was a person grappling with some bad issues which caused him to act in bad ways.
They were saying goodbye to who he had been, not what he became. He was their friend and they loved him, but the guy they loved faded away. This was their way of making peace with that.
I can't be mad at this send off. I might not have liked Orion, so I have no problem with Tiberius being killed "off camera", but he still deserved closure as a member of Vox Machina.
I never thought about it until now.. But, I always thought it was sad that once Vax took his place with the Raven Queen, he was the first of Vox to go, so he would have been alone waiting on the others to die, but no. No, Tiberius was probably waiting for him. Tiberius probably waiting for Vax and greeting him when he joined the Raven Queen. And he will probably wait for the other too.
Orion was in the middle of a drug addiction. Drug addictions can make people act in ways they never would have before. It's not an excuse, but a reason. Orion now has grown a lot since then.
Watching the moment of the reveal, and all the cast remembers' individual realizations is heartbreaking; Marisha's unending confusion, Sam not realizing until Tiberius is mentioned, Laura's eyes widening, Liam's expressionless shifting around. Heartbreaking.
I just got to this point watching the campaign and I love that they had the respect to do that. I really loved Tiberius in the beginning, it's a shame that Orion became so distasteful later.
Maybe, but at the same time with his acting it's lamenting probably of what once was. He probably was great at the home game. But then there was the fame that corrupts.
he was an addict who was also struggling with cancer, the dude was yeeted off the show and never allowed to make amends for any misdeeds he had done, fuck these people, Fairweather friends@@NathanWubs
@@evarchavex4800 no, he wasn't. He smiled the same smile he always does when he conmects the dots of what Matt is doing. Go a little further and see if he's smiling... The only one who isn't sad at all seems to be Sam lol.
@@higglybiggly1174 Yup only Sam is still done, they were most likely never friends to begin with. It's like if Marisha had left the group during C1 He probably would not have cared either.
While i know it likely wont appear exactly, but i want this scene in the show. Doesnt have to be Tibs. It can be an NPC they all had met before the show started. But this is my favorite scene along side the "Vox Machina, how do you want to do this" and the scanlan being found dead scene for the fact you feel the emotion coming from their characters.
I decided to pick up the streams after seeing the animated show. Although I wasn't there for when Tiberius/Orion was in the group, I still cried my eyes out this scene
R.I.P Tiberius Stormwind 😢 Though the man who played you was THAT GUY in this D&D group. Still the ending of your story was fucking touching, you got the send off that you deserved... You made a grown ass man cry...
he was an addict and a cancer survivor going through some shit, i think its a pretty shitty to reduce him to 'that guy' unless you think you could walk a mile in his shoes
@Donbro A person can still be "That Guy", regardless of any reason. Don't need to walk a mile in a person's shoes to know if they're being "That Guy". It's not being reductive, it's just calling out and acknowledging behavior of an individual.
Had to come watch this tonight as my character in our campaign is going through something like this after the session. Ended the session right after combat but I am playing a tempest cleric that was raised by the church in a port city. City came under attack by Kuo Toa Leviathan and the head cleric was behind it as he betrayed the church. During the battle with the BBEG, Priest who raised my cleric was killed right before his eyes, as the party battled to save the city and the temple. Wading through bodies of Kuo Toa and priests to try and make it to his unconscious "father" who lay at the BBEG feet, BBEG bent down, hoisted Father Tithus by the neck and proceeded to unarmed attack with thunder damage to finish him off sending my cleric into a rage. I managed to be the last one to hit him for exactly 2 of his remaining health to drop the BBEG. Next session cleric is going to be very distraught.
Life had just been throwing so much at Liam that campaign. This gave finality to another chapter of his life that was playing out in the game. Can't blame the guy for having a hard time.
Im now watching the first campaign for the first time, my love for Tiberius is incredibly strong. I was spoiled to the fact that he does not survive. Watching this, has caused me to weep uncontrollably for the last 20 mins. Crit role team you are brilliant.
So I’ve seen c2 but lately I haven’t had as much time so I haven’t been able to watch c1, I know what happened with Orion, but when did Tiberius die? I’ve been watching tlovm so around what episode would he have died?
@@tomesofawesome8041 Basically, there are two problems. 1, outside of stream, he was addicted to drugs, which made his behaviour turn sour, as well as allegedly abusing his girlfriend, and he mistreated Critter fans. 2, on stream, he mangled Tiberius into a shadow of what he was meant to be. Started taking aspects of what makes the other members unique (like a having a pet like Vex, being crude like Scanlan). Caught cheating and meta gaming, arguing with Matt about his Sorcery points and was more focused on winning the game than playing it. He was shifty and toxic, and if Critical Role deemed it best for him to leave, that says all you need to know.
@@bessieburnet9816damn crit role has a real problem of great friends falling into drug abuse and abusing girlfriends. Like with all that happened with Brian recently, its seems very cursed
I don't think they'll include him at all, and honestly, I HATE them for that. They cut him out of the first two-parter that he should've been in. Then jumped right into the Briarwood story arc, and cut him out of the banquet. The rest of the arc was after Orion left. Bastards.
@@tomesofawesome8041 Orion is very insistent that Tiberius is his intellectual property, to the point that he lost it on a fan for making a Tiberius shirt design. Even if they wanted to, they can’t use Tiberius in the animated show.
Not entirely sure. Everyone in the community likes to pretend he was never a part of it. More or less, there was som friction with Orion and the rest of the cast. Aparently he had a big main character complex and was making it less fun for everyone else. I think there might also be some other scandals involved about things he said. I also heard somewhere that he did some insane thing where he faked a charity or somehow stole money from 826LA. Not a great guy. Tbh, he's the reason I've never watched campaign one. It feels so weird to try and have a story like that where you just decided to ignore one of the characters entirely. It's weird and doesn't sit well with me. Campaign 2 slaps tho.
Basically, there are two problems. 1, outside of stream, he was addicted to drugs, which made his behaviour turn sour, as well as allegedly abusing his girlfriend, and he mistreated Critter fans. 2, on stream, he mangled Tiberius into a shadow of what he was meant to be. Started taking aspects of what makes the other members unique (like a having a pet like Vex, being crude like Scanlan). Caught cheating and meta gaming, arguing with Matt about his Sorcery points and was more focused on winning the game than playing it. He was shifty and toxic, and if Critical Role deemed it best for him to leave, that says all you need to know.
Abused his girlfriend, was caught metagaming and rerolling bad dice to the point that Marisha and Tailesin seemed to start babysitting his dice rolls to make sure he didn’t redo them, mistreated fans, took money from charity streams for himself, was apparently addicted to drugs, and I’m sure there’s something I forgot.
To sum it up, he was being a problem player for the first 27 episodes and trying to hog the spotlight and whatnot... so they eventually asked him to leave
So, if dude played with them two years off camera before, clearly they were all close friends. I think it’s obvious the illness, the success and the drug abuse change him. Sucks it’s like when you have a family member that falls down those paths and you have to cut them out of your life. What’s unfortunate too is they can never add a new cast member that’s a Dragonborn because it will look like they’re just trying to replace him.
In my opinion I don’t think they needed to kill him off I really liked how they said goodbye to him when he was on his way back to draconia. He was already not coming back killing him was just unnecessary
Not related, they parted ways peacefully. Orion got his own show about Tiberius and he had the rights to the character, so they had to. It happened 10 months after the actual parting because of that, and Matt clarified it with Orion months in advance.
To the people coming in here, discussing about Orion, CEASE! The cast of Critical Role does not wish for the matter to be discussed. Anything that can and will of been said has ALREADY been said. The cast of Critical Role has moved on. So too, should you. Let it die in peace. If you insist on discussing it, do it elsewhere. Know that you will be disrespectful to the wishes of the Cast of Critical Role in choosing to discuss the matter any further. Know that it will be uncritter of you, to reopen wounds of old.
@@HEAVYTIGER11 Nope, just someone spreading the important message that people need to hear whether they want to hear it or not. Does it matter whether or not I am affiliated with CR? No. It doesn't. What does matter is that people are constantly bringing something up despite the TRULY involved parties making statements asking people to kindly stop. That they sorted it out. That they dealt with all of the bad behaviors involved. Take this at face value and move on.
Respectfully, everyone is allowed to discuss it wherever and whenever, I don't think CR cares too much about people discussing it now VS back then, as they were just starting out and Orion was making them look REALLY bad. Especially since they were okay with saying they had no intentions of bringing Tiberius to the animated series. If they cared so much, they could have dodged the question. People are curious and have the right to be, it's natural. I can assure you no one has intentions of disrespecting CR.
@@horriblyhonestchinchilla Here's the thing you're not getting. Anything and everything that has, could have, and have been said have all been said. Anything further enters the realm of speculation. CR's Mathew Mercer made an announcement to put a cease to this discussion earlier this year. It's not your call to keep reopening a topic that in all retrospect is a closed subject. The parties that were involved, handled it on their own. They don't need any of us, to keep going at this topic. They are moving on, and so too should all of you. All you need to know about the situation is on Reddit. You can find it really quickly. I did, as it's a front page search result. They had their reasons for not bringing Orion back in with them. It has to do with Orion's behavior. This is all you're going to get from me. You want more information, do some google search. You'll find what you're looking for.
@@NativeAmericanKnight I am well aware what happened between them, but you can't stop others from wondering. It's not disrespectful to wonder about what happened to a cast member of a show that is very much public, what is disrespectful is if someone asked the group personally. And your attempt to shut others down won't work and doesn't as I've seen those you tried to, are still asking around. Want to be effective? Send them the reddit page, not only is the answer there but also a piece that says Matthew wants the topic to die. When people get their answer they stop caring. Good day and good luck.
I think with the show they couldn’t, something to do with copy rights and so on as Tiberius was owned by Orion. Ans being honest I won’t think it would have been right to have the character voiced by someone else.
@@trixiegothquinzel I wouldn't want anyone else either And of course they could bring him back, by burying the hatchet already! God, it's been what, 6 years?
@@kapitan19969838 But I think that's kinda the point. Orion may be the one that doesn't want to come back so they can't use his character as he created it and had creative ownership of it so cant use it without his permission and if he doesn't give it....they can't.
@@trixiegothquinzel I believe it's not on Orion's side There was an article I've read in which someone from CR (I think it was Matthew) stated that "There are no plans to bring him (Orion) back"
Spoiled opportunity . Sure Orion copy righted his char. So not mentioning Tiberious makes sense but..He could just write off Tiberius fate as open ended. No need to kill of a character with potential because of a even douchier actor! You could have revisited Tiberious,have the character had serious reflection time and be played by a new actor to reflect a new character change if that new actor would internt the rolle instead of say, be a new dragonborn sorcerer character. Do I have to help out here? Have a Topaz sorcerer dragonborn with Amethyst draconic bloodline at the ready. Problem is stage fright and I dont like to have millions know my face and start digging into my privacy to undermine etc
They couldn't have continued with him. Orion had a copyright on the character and the send-off was probably a negotiated thing. It would be entirely rude and distasteful to try and bring in a new player to play his character or create a knock-off of him. The rest of the group would never go for that. In situations like this, the best you can do is kill them off with dignity.
@@ShadowyFox_86 I f.exa knock off? Pff. Nah nothing like that. Replacement? Well a different draconic bloodline sorcerer. Hes not the only one. My background could be a student dragonborn at same university that have had a few chats, heard rumors about ol' Tib etc, sorcerer too sure but while I could be a bit grumpy due to topaz dragon heritage and analyzing, skeptical with some dry humour and love for real mead!. Not a spotlight hogging red dragonborn. Way too arrgoant, no doubt due to their ancestry. Tib should have been kicked out! Oh wait...
@@odinulveson9101 No, there is a reason why there are almost no dragonborn in critical role now. As people would be crowing Tiberius Tiberius Tiberius and that would go on for weeks. So they have been avoiding that for over 7 years now. by only having them very sparingly.
They legally cannot mention him in the show. Orion has a copyright on Tiberius and lost it on a fan for making a shirt with his design. Trying to put any mention of him in the show would cause issues for everybody.
Bro Tibs was great and scanlan was cringe.... Mr I want 10000 Mirrors no sourcerer point counting metagaming marvin who was a horndog wierdo that wasnt even funny about it towards all the female npcs and cast members. Yeah what a great character that we should all ask for back.
