People compare Sam and Orion for making jokes. The difference I see is that Sam makes jokes as Scanlan, Orion makes jokes as Orion. Sam's sense of humor when not role-playing Scanlan is distinct from when he is Scanlan.
@@jackie2645 when people went "You're being gross again scanlan" that was the polite "Okey doke Sam, back up now please" and Sam would oblige, and look at where it got him, as time and campaigns have gone on the cast got more comfortable with each other and now not only is Sam not the only one acting as extreme as that, but whenever he does it gets big guffaw out of everyone because they know for certain he's just fucking around
@@antonymilne1346 yeah, it is not so mch the joke itself that matters, but how both sides go about it that make up how it is percived. Sam has a fucking shirt of him and Liam kissing!!! and it is hilarious for both and everyone else are in on that joke and he would never ever think of doing anything similar with any of the others for they would not be as comfortable with it, as liam is. The effort he takes to make sure the others still feel safe with him earns him the right to make "gross" jokes that just make them laugh in return. He worked for that
another curious thing I noticed, Sam very rarely is the one who initiates physical contact unless it is with liam. And even if he does it is with laura who is more often the one who hangs of him then the other way around and he keeps it tame and brief. As inapropriet and bounderie pushing his comments as scanlan at times are, he is very respectful of physical personal space. The most restreined there out of the whole bunch to be precise. orion on the other hand is seen to pull in marisha often, with which she seamed fine at the beginning, but with everyone getting feed up with him as time went on, she no longer was. He used his character being drunk as an excuse to get all over her and after she told him of, he was still looking for a way to push it which is plain gross . . . . on the otherhand there is a great moment where marisha decides to lay down across tals lap resting her head on sam who sat right beside him and sam just uncrosses his legs and offers his hand as a pillow so she would be comfortable but in no way used the opportunity to be invasive of push it. He just let her chose the level of contact she was comfortable with and adjusted to her. with how much respect he showes in regards of personal space it is way harder to read his jokes as invasiv, than orion who lacks the same respect. That he never pushes physical bounderies makes clear it is just a joke and there is no room for mistaking it as hitting on them, orion blures those lines
I feel bad for Marisha, when people say Marisha acted inconsistent early on, I can't say I blame her, I find it hard to role-play when I'm uncomfortable and angry too. We see plenty of times Marisha is a very competent, one of the most competent role-players at the table, but being next to Acaba was not good for her
This cane across as her character being upset not herself being upset at all? I don’t think she would continue to put her hands on him if she genuinely was uncomfortable with contact.
When Marisha dropped her Keyleth voice I genuinely couldn’t and still can’t tell how much of it was Keyleth getting annoyed at Tiberius and how much of it was Marisha getting annoyed at Orion touching her so much
@@Jwine95 Just because you find her annoying doesn’t mean she deserves to be made uncomfortable. Orion had been behaving inappropriately in stream and especially off camera. You may not be especially fond of her, but that doesn’t excuse Orion.
@Timothy Crescenzo why should I not? Because I occasionally don't like how marisha rps? That doesn't mean I think the show is bad, quite a leap don't you say?
@@Jwine95 i mean like if it another moment i wouldnt care but going damn this woman who clearly doesnt wanna be touched is annoying cus she clearly has a problem is uncomfortable and is most likely unable to really verbalise it without worrying if she fucks up the vibe of the dnd game / stream. Like this moment i feel shes really not being annoying i just feel for her other moments im sure u can form your own opinions but youre commenting on a comment about this moment so i feel its a very daft take you had
When Marisha slaps Orion's hand away, you can see that Matt is straight-faced and concerned, trying to see if Marisha is actually angry - before remembering he's on stream and then laughing with the group at Vax.
@@QueenLaurizia if you go and take a look at Jacksepticeye's interviewing Matt, you'll know that Matt is actually very chill and Marisha is the exploding one in the relationship.
You could clearly see matt hates everything going on whenever he touches marishia when he touches her nose he goes from smiling to just this isn't a game anymore she's uncomfortable
The fact that Tibs called Keyleth "Princess" made her extra pissed. Keyleth was very not okay with Percy calling her "your majesty" back when they first met him. We know this from Talks Machina
You can see when the other cast is trying so hard to just ignore Orion's bullshit, and you can tell the Marisha was actually mad at Orion, this was so uncomfortable, and I'm so glad he is off from the show, you can tell they had a heavy talk after the show.
Sometimes funny, but SO UNCOMFORTABLE. Look at Matt's face when orion/tibs creeps on keyleth/marisha. Everyone at the table is grappling with making the stream go on and telling Orion to back tf up.
@@dominantspore5934 being married or not doesn't change the fact that Marisha was super fucking uncomfortable with that and that was obvious. The stare from Matt in that interaction is not one slightly irritated, it's one filled with anger. Especially considering Marisha's past
@@earnestwilliams2049 she talks about it in her between the sheets ep with bryan, but long story short she was sexually harassed by a dude during college and noone at the college did anything about it
I think Marisha was simply RPing how Keyleth felt since her character was already pissed off by this time(Vox Machina facing the repercussions of some of their actions, etc...). Orion and Marisha were always leaning into each other and telling jokes during the episodes with Tiberius. Y'all read into this type of stuff too much, it's like there are 10-20 backseat psychologists in every comment section involving Tiberius.
This was still season one of Critical Role, which started in 2015. Matt Mercer and Marisha Rey didn't get married until 2017. So they were likely already dating, not married at this time. It's still definitely cause to be annoyed when your 'friend' is getting handsy, but I think that's only slightly the issue. I think it's more to do with Orion's RP. He doesn't really follow the spirit of 'yes-and' for good Improv style roleplay. Liam takes back the drink and is about to start saying something, then Orion interrupts him "It's empty". Same thing happens to the other two guys and Marisha as well just moments later. There's this unspoken passing of a conversational baton and he constantly interrupts them so he can be the center of attention again. They make a joke and laugh to diffuse the tension, but they're still very annoyed.
That’s a really good point if you know the youtuber level up to level 3 or something they mention what makes Marisha and Travis great players is they dont hog the spotlight and the same thing applies for the rest while Orion wanted to make sure he had the spotlight in all scenes
When you watch the very emotional interview Marisha gave regarding sexual harassment one can't help but feel extra angry for his behaviour. It's generally not okay to get physical with others without their permission - that's a basic rule and simple human decency. He could have just said "And I hug Keyleth" or something of that effect nobody would have batted an eye. But he had to go there and invade per personal space. I'm glad he's not part of the group any more and I'm extra happy for Marisha that she's surrounded by wonderful friends and most of all the amazing Matt!
And now I feel bad for people who won't be able to watch that interview anymore (with the purge of Brian content on CR). It sucks knowing that Orion and Brian are apparently not that different.
@@HeAintGonnaEmailYou It's different though, Marisha accidentally or unintentionally invades peoples bubbles. And when she does intentionally it's usually received positively. Orion wasn't just touching Marisha but bumping into her and grabbing her. Two completely different types of touching
@@HeAintGonnaEmailYouit’s completely different and you know that. She apologises especially when it isn’t received well and she does it usually because she gets too caught up in her character and makes wild hand movements.
I listened to the show, rather than watching it on screen. So I never realized there was all that visible tension between Orion and them, and I thought it was strange when he left with no explanation or even a mention after the fact besides saying that his character and the character's whole kingdom were dead. It makes a bit more sense after seeing this, although to be fair I think that most members of CR are that close and physical with each other. It's really only by the subtle reactions that you can see any difference.
Yeah mate, they are close and personal but somehow Orion made it... not cool... there was something about him and his remarks that were really unpolite and quite creepy/predatorial at times (IMHO)
There's so much more warmth when Liam and Laura hug because they're both hugging each other. They're good friends, and skin to skin is part of their dynamic. Orion's feels off because he isn't getting hugged back. And when he's not getting the "affection" he sees across the table, he gets pushy. There's a difference between your mom and dad giving you a hug vs your distant uncle giving you a hug.
@@RoastedPheasant I mean to be completely fair I am not necessarily a fan of how physical Liam used to be with Laura those days, as she never appeared to have really enjoyed it as much as he did, so much so that she never initiated any hugs she always just tried reacting to them in an not awkward way, but YES Orion really goes above and beyond with the creepiness and neediness.
@@lololo Thank you, I always cringed when Liam would touch Laura, he seemed all over her, way too much. I get that they are close friends but damn, I don't hug my own mother that much. It got better with the mighty nein since he was sitting far from her, but with the new season, I fear it will start again. (Although I haven't cringed yet)
Alucard: Nah, unfortunately that's not true. It's awkward watching this, every enjoyed it at first but Orion kept it up too long and people were annoyed soon enough. Also, don't touch someone when they ask you not to. This was so awkward, we all know Orion had drug problems but in this moment his IRL wisdom was 4 too.
It makes a lot more sense if you watch Marisha's 'Between the Sheets' interview. Her being uncomfortable with Tiberius/Orion might have just been because of other reasons, but she did discuss in her 'Between the Sheets' episode that a guy in college tried to 'touch' her and put his hand down her clothes, which led to a tough and uncomfortable period of time in the weeks/months that followed. This might have been a very unwelcome reminder of that night and in retrospect, Orion really shouldn't have kept trying to touch her. (Disclaimer: not trying to stir things up again just realized this might have been more significant for her than we realized- or it might not have been and she just didn't want him touching her. I'm not a 'touchy' person myself)
Idk if Matt and Marisha were together at this point or not, but after Orion called her "Princess pretty-face" he turned and pointed at Matt and said "He likes you, too." So it was potentially embarrassing for him? Lol.
I listened to this episode without actually watching it, and I at first thought this was a really funny bit. But now that I'm actually watching it and realizing that the frustration wasn't directed at Tiberius and character, but was actually directed at Orion makes me realize how messed up this whole thing is.
1:08 Paused right after "Did you swallow the flask?" Barely started and everyone is so uncomfortable with his antics expect Liam, maybe. Matt looks peeved. Knowing now what I do about Orion I'm so thankful he's gone from the show.
@@MsYunaFires I'm not defending his actions by any means necessary but I'm pretty sure those antics arose from his struggle with chemotherapy and cancer. Maybe at one point he was a good guy, he was friends with the cast before Critical Role started. so maybe, this might've been something developed from a very dark spot in his life and went downhill. does that make it okay, no. but I think it puts things into a clearer perspective.
I started watching during the mighty nein so I never saw Orion/Tiberius but from everything I’ve seen, ranging from “half chub” which is another way of saying erection, and how creepy he acts with them, I’m glad I never saw him. I’m also glad to see that the group seems so much happier now than they seemed to be back then
As someone who listened to the whole campaign podcast-style I never got to see the facial expressions and ooooooh boy was I missing out O.O In three campaigns I dont think I've ever seen Matt so out of character (character being all powerful poker face DM). He looks so uncomfortable and angry and frustrated that he cant do anything. The whole cast looks so over it any time Orion opens his mouth.
@@bobbyheller959 no orion left because of drug problems and stay off because of verbal abuse, if you watch the clip marisha giggles with him after the sence
Seeing Orion toss Matt a very quick dirty glare when Matt says the flask is empty. I couldn't help but notice how Orion's eyes flash, his shoulders tense, and his neck kind of extends as if to say "are you serious?" There must have been such a battle going on between these two as Matt tries to balance the scales for the group and Tiberius tries to steal the show. Matt also legit look scared for what Marisha might do when Orion touched her face. Sam also is trying so hard to look comfortable.
You can tell when people are smiling, they smile with their eyes. After Orion put his hand in marishas face, matt was no longer smiling with his eyes...
Ah yes. This was probably the last straw imo. Like, sure, it got way worse after this during that session. With the army idea, the mirrors, the never ending task after task, etc. But I feel after that point, they were just trying to be done with the episode.
Had to read the long write up on Reddit explaining this Orion guy to understand who he was - glad I can agree with the rest that this guy not being around anymore is a good thing
Im almost certain when he tried to cast fireball it was him saying, “I know why you guys are so irritated and I’m going to keep doing it anyways.” I love how she just shut that sht right down.
I never had the time to watched CR, I only ever listened to the podcast on commutes. I never realised how palpable the tension was in certain points with Orion, this part in particular. When listening I thought it was brilliant and everyone was having fun, a true testament to the rest of the casts professionalism and skill in voice acting such an awkward passage.
This atmosphere is so weird wth i cant help but awkward laugh Orion is just an anoying person i think one of the reasons i havent watched season of of critical role...damn!
This is second to last episode he's in. They officially remove him by episode 30, but the last one he's in is 27. Start on Episode 28 and you won't have to deal with his cheating/metagaming/unwelcome touching.
@@TribalKatz Are there any good places to read what happens in the first 27 episodes? I'm on ep 17 and I hate awkwardness so I can't keep watching the eps with him in it, but I don't want to miss out on any of the lore.
@@injetavel279 If they were on good terms, the context would be different. But he's proven himself to be a creeper and hugging someone else's girl like that is a no no.
For fucks sake Matt was fine with it, they were laughing, she was touching him also, forget about everything else, this moment here was a normal interaction you people need to chill the fuck out!
@@injetavel279 Possessive? No. Marisha and Liam have been shown to be fantastic friends who at least hug frequently, same for Laura and Sam, or any mixture of the others. Hell even Robby currently in Campaign 3 has shown to be fine with largely avoiding physical contact. There's a difference between trying to RP and trying to use RP to get in physical contact with others. You can clearly see that Marisha wasn't alright with the constant touching, and neither was Matt.
@@izurokamakura4778 Draconia would've been more of a thing, which would've changed things up in C2 I really liked Tibs, but it's a shame Orion was a disaster Glad they gave the character a decent sendoff after Vorugal
At a later point, Orion puts his arm around Marisha, kind of like a whole drunk-man-carry thing. She glares at him, then starts laughing, like she couldn’t stay mad. Still… Given the fact that Orion was going through addiction problems at the time, him acting “turnt up” was definitely in poor taste. I don’t blame Marisha for getting peeved out of character.
This is so damn cringe to watch. Frankly, it's equivalent to Marisha during the Kraken fight, but hers was not directed at anyone and she hasn't been that... "out of it" since. This is just a complete inability to read the room. It's frustrating because of how good Tiberius was when Orion wasn't... like this. But all things considered, it was for the better of the show/play that the divorce happened.
It’s hard to treat a man as a child when your balls deep in a fantasy Role playing Situation on camera. think we may have witnessed one of those hard times. Having that dude on the show can shift the audiences take on the show to something more akin to a social experiment. This point of view would bring about a more serious and calculating mood when viewing it changing the ambiance to a dark an ominous one. I just think people like that have an odor that is very distinct and always seems to linger after they are gone.
So from what I understand this guy has or had cancer. he was clearly using that as an excuse to be an asshole? because you often see that with sick people. Not a excuse for them in anyway though. It’s funny before I even knew anything about this critical roll when I saw that guy I could tell right away, yea he’s the problem guy.
people are looking to much into this. Orian left on bad terms yes. But in this encounter Marisha was just acting keyleth so well it was hard to see that it wasnt real. as you can see Liam traves and Laura all laugh there ass of this encounter. And at the end Marisha is aswell same for Mat.
Look at Matt's face at 2:47, that's not acting. Marisha is genuinely pissed off that he keeps touching her without permission. The others are laughing because they're on stream and trying to push on through the tension
@@jimmy_the_squid9456 matts face is like that cause he wanst sure if marisha was angry or not. I can see in her face she is trying to hold in her laugh in. the moment he sees she not really angry at orian his face change as well right away. So marisha got everone fooled aswell. And as a few cast members already hinted. he was not removed from the group due his play style.
Love how all of the comments dated around the same time 'supergeekmike' made his "lets talk about Tiberius" video have the exact same things to say, like we all didn't see that video and immediately look up all the clip. You aint fooling no-one 🤣😂🤣
Jesus hearing about this I was expecting it to be a hard watch but this ended being example 23493844 of ppl in this fandom making up the most over the top situations from nothing 😂 watched this ep in it’s entirety you can see her and Orion constantly making contact leaning etc and her character was pissed at Tiberius she was clearly acting in character, she continues to touch him right after and onwards. Come on ppl I know everyone wants to look back and try to find every interaction with Orion as a “clue” or “example” but this is literally nothing lol
@@jimmy_the_squid9456 your only two videos are a random "hot red head" and a video game girl "giving a lap dance" recorded through a tv like a creep lol you weirdo, definition of projecting 🤢🤮
Everyone is just assuming that they're uncomfortable. As someone who just binged the first 30 episodes in 2 weeks, Marisha and Orion literally lean on each other, CONSTANTLY. They also casually touch, share sources of food, and have side conversations all the time. These are two people who seem like actual close friends. Let's not forget this group played before for quite awhile. I think you are all just assuming the worst because of speculations and rumors. Go watch the lovely send off they give him. If there was bad blood, I doubt they would have been so kind. P.S. They sit closer and touch far more often than the ACTUAL COUPLE of the group does.
@@daniellepeel3516 Of course. He's an awkward person. But my statement stands. Go watch the first 27 episodes again and hyper focus how close they get every episode.
@@s.souless3511 I agree with you even though we're (apparently) in the minority in this comment section. I remember watching this before all the Orion drama happened and 100% thought Marisha's reactions were in-character, which does make sense in context. Matt also cracks up several times in this clip. You don't flit back and forth between anger and laughter every few seconds unless you're a lunatic. And damn guys, the fact that shit went down later doesn't mean Orion and Marisha were never close. They were friends, now they aren't I guess, but this exchange seems like it was a lot of fun for everyone.
There may have been a point in time off camera where the shift may have occurred as Matt and Marisha were dating and Orion could’ve gotten a little too familiar in ways that weren’t appreciated anymore. That could be a factor. Orion did turn a little scummy more towards/during the K’Varn fight too. And if you look at Matt’s face he does become a bit stern and more serious between their interactions that Orion initiates.
Nope. They have never been BFF's. Her BFF is Talisin. They haven't spoken since he was kicked off. In fact the whole cast haven't talked to him or support anything he does since he was kicked off.
LaughingAtYou Oh, I was just basing this off something Orion said directly recently, but yeah, I'll take your word for it. The pictures he's taken with the cast members must be fake too? And Matthew's tweet at him offering support for Draconian Knights, as well as Orion's thankful reply were clearly staged too.
k. Explain that no members of CR have tweeted support or taken any pictures with him since the split. also none of them have worked as VA on his DK series. Matt said that there is no plans to EVER have him back on CR. Sounds like there is a reason for that. He has an abrasive personality, which he has admitted on many occasions that ruin friendships and jobs.
Except that they have. Very recently. There was even a very humorous exchange between Matthew and Orion over a piece of artwork in January of last year. Matthew also tweeted support for Orion's show: "While his heroic story has sunset in Exandria, you can follow @orionacaba's creative vision of Tiberius' narrative at @StormwindFamily!" To which Orion replied: "Thank you, my friend. ❤️🐉" The CR cast haven't gotten onto his show, because it's HIS show, to say nothing of the fact that they are busy with their own shows and working lives as voice actors. They have also established now that DK and CR are separate canons now. Also, Orion recently came forward in a stream on his Twitch account as saying that not only was he dealing with his depression, drugs, and cancer at the time he left Critical Role, but he also found out that he was HIV+. He went on to say that what hurt the most is that at the time, he couldn't tell Marisha Ray, one of his best friends in the world.
you're confusing diplomatic gestures as something they are not. And that tweet you are referring too , Matt found in very poor taste, why he said it wasn't canon, also why he killed him off in his game so he would know he would never be coming back. But you keep drinkin his bitter kool-aid, as he uses CR to beg for donations. His Brew Busters Dnd Campaign ended when he brought Tiberius in, the other players, excluding his GF, were very upset at his game play. its why their isn't anymore of those, nor any work on hyper RPG, after his trial run there. I wish the guy good health and luck, but his blatant lying why he left, and his admittance of lying about it, does not endear me to trust many things he says. His last response about it, is the closest to the truth about the situation, but he still blames them for it.
Honestly I tried to get into CR bit I really can't , I mean Orion ( sickness sucks, but it's not an excuse) is about as much of a douche as you'd think with a name like that. And even without him , I don't find the likeable for some reason 🤷🏻♂️ feel like the only DnD player who doesn't like it.
Honestly, I just started watching a few months ago and I liked it, but... I wasn't that invested. Then I came to the episode where Orion left and the vibe changed IMMEDIATELY. The first episode without him was a delight, everyone was having so much fun and their chemistry was on point. Just get through it or read the synopsis of the previous episodes, it's worth it!
I think the most awkward part about the whole Tiberius and CR thing is that Matt doesn't react to his RP or jokes at all. I understand the situation and know everything that's going on, but I feel like a lot of Tiberious' awkwardness comes from feeling uncomfortable at how obvious Matt is making it that he doesn't like him at the table. Matt laughs and smiles at literally EVERY joke made in this scene, and most from this episode EXCEPT Orion's. Coming from someone who is glad he's off the show and doesn't think he deserves to come back, I don't feel Matt handled that aspect of the situation very well. That's just my 2 coppers.
Agreed. It seemed like Matt just didn't like/couldn't handle a spellcaster character in the group. And Tiberius's power level just made him too OP/game breaking. But, unlike a good DM, he just decided to nerf & ignore Tiberius at every turn. Kinda messed up. No wonder Orion started interjecting more & grew more distant and aggravated in his final few games. Who wouldn't in his position?
@@TheDylandProductions but like..what does that have to do with his borderline sexual harrassment behavior on the table at times? Complete lack of boundaries.
@@Katherine-fu1xg Remember when Scanlan made a "little chub" joke several episodes before Tiberius? Or how literally in episode 1 several of the characters go to a brothel. And the entire group was making very sexualized humor early on. It wasn't just Orion. It wasn't harassment. Everybody was doing it. And very nearly every time everybody laughs. It wasn't crossing boundaries. It was totally more tame than what everyone else was doing! Go back and watch and see for yourself, unless they've censored the full original uploads too!
@@TheDylandProductions Watching ep 1 rn and after also watching the animated series I spiraled into what happened to the Dragonborn. Nothing has been censored from the originals and the chub joke (while it 100% missed the mark) did have contextual humor in some capacity.
Look man, I personally find Tiberius as a character fucking hysterical. The fish out of water thing really works for me, and drunk Tiberius really does it for me. I miss my favorite Red Dragonborn from Draconia
Losing Tiberus was the biggest mistake the show made. Not just from a gameplay standpoint, as he was their only pure spellcaster, but from a narrative standpoint as well. Orion my have been a bit annoying to watch at times but that was because he was a power gamer and that's what power gamers are like. He was also one of the best RPer's in the game.
Ray Ruckus not really a mistake when you take into account that this is still their own game and they were having personal issues with Orion. Even if they didn't, Orion got in trouble with corporate so they wouldn't have had a word in it even if they wanted to
Well given that hes a scammer, having never sent his kickstarter backers any of their goods and scamming a girl who lost her father out of charity money AND he's extremely abusive (you can find audio recordings of the verbal side of his abuse online) and a drug addict I think it was the best move to cut him entirely out of their lives.
