VW tested my Id.3 battery (26 months / 45.000 km) 

The degradation is not linear on Li-Ion batteries. It drops fastest when it's new, and then it slows down a lot, except for really old Leafs in hot climates. New EVs should have range which will be practical after 10 years, in cold weather, including charging to 80% on a DCFC. Cheap little city cars should have at least 150 mile real world range, more normal stuff, at least 200 and 250 is better, and premium 300+. And there should be chargers every 80 miles, so even a city car can get through, even if it's a level 2.

This is why I personally think bigger batteries are better, 58 vs 77 KW/h. You have to charge less and it is easier to keep them at 80% without losing too much range. My logic behind this is, a small battery is being charged more often and you put more strain on it? Maybe I am wrong, but that would be an interesting comparison as well, 2 of the same cars, age and distance driven, then compare how many full charge cycles were done and what the battery capacity is for each car.

Very interesting video with a lot of real data for comparison. Thank you 👍 My Tesla Model 3 SR+ with 108000km after 41months displays now in average 352km (km/%). That would be a 7.4% degradation from the 380km when it was new with 41% DC charging. Charged it only 3 times to 100%. Normally stay between 80 and 15% on trips and between 60 and 40% the rest of the time. In my opinion the 3 things most damaging : Using constantly the full power, Charging a lot over 80%, Using preconditioning on long distances (battery rarely goes under 40 degrees with 1.5h sections)

Thanks Chris! Very interesting what the car registrates! We just got a message from our dealer our ID 4 has a battery recal. Still we are happy with the driving experience so far

Degradation is nonlinear so it would be very interesting to see the next test after another 45k. Would expect much lower degradation.

And now for the happy news. Downloaded and installed 3.0 yesterday. All went well. Yeeha!

I have a Tesla Model 3 SR+ with LFP batterys. I regularly charge to 100%. 2 years and 40.000kms, I have 1.3% degradation according to the app Tessie. I think LFP are a win win... let's see.

I had a couple of days with 100%. This was while the car was at the official VW workshop for repair and they fully charged it.🤬

Hi Chris!!! Greetings from Madrid. I usually check my id.3 58kwh with the OBDeleven to know my car degradation. My last check was on 28/09/22 and the car had 33066km. The result was 54400Wh at 20ºC with SOC at 20%. Could you tell us the data your OBDeleven tells you to know the difference between the OBD and VW? The data is called "Maximum energy content HV Battery”. I really appreciate any help you can provide.

I've driven my car 78,000 mi and charged about $225 times on a fast charger, and constantly charged to 90%. I haven't any noticeable degradation on my ID 4

Thank you for sharing this! After your previous video with 8% degradation - I was a bit scared from ID.3, but then I consulted it with other EV owners and even this next video confirms the theory that first year degradation is the worst! 2% for such a lot of DC charging is great value. I have almost 4 years old e-golf with around 50kkm on it - 1 year of ownership with 28kkm with keeping all basic rules - never charge to 100% until going somewhere far, trying to avoid DC charging as much as possible. And I would like to do this test of degradation with my battery also. I have no estimation of SoH a year ago or few years ago :( So this could be my reference point then and I could test it every two years or something like that..

My e-Golf 32.3kWh is charged regularly to 100% but only with up to 7.6kWh. It just reached 42K km and no noticeable degradation yet. I calculated between 31 and 32kWh of remaining usable capacity. Range basically has not decreased.

10% is normal in the first years and should stay there now👍🏻

I own a Ioniq PHEV, with 144000km. About 60% of distance has been in EV mode, but the HEV mode also makes the battery work with "microcycles". This small battery (7'5kWh usable) has a huge amount of cycles (always charged to 100%). The number of cycles must be similar to a EV with 400.000km. The EV range of the car remained constant (63km when starting) the first 100.000km. Then It lost 1km and remained with 62km until 120.000km. But last 20.000km, it has lost some 5 additional km. The EV range now is 57km, which is 90% of initial range. But almost 10% of range has been lost in very short time...

When we picked up the new car, it was fully charged. Dealers tend to do that. Maybe it was VW, not you, who left it charged to 100% for a day...

2 Years, only 45k km and 10% degradation... doesn't it seem to be higher than the expected? My tesla gets like 5% degradation after 50k km and after that it stabilizes a bit.

I'm pretty astonished what kind of data can been reading out. It looks like this same as Tesla can do. Time on 100% SOC and DC-Charging-Counter will be the values for warranty claims in the future

Model S P85+ 345000km: 12.6% degradation. Edit: 1/3 AC22kW, 2/3 DC 50-120kW

Goodmorning Chris, Do you know anything about the recal of the HV battery? What is known?

I had 1 day idle at 100% - dealer charged the car to 100% and left it overnight till they run the SOH test.

I think it's your VW workshop too, when they made the battery test. Anyway, you can look cars SOC at the dealer always at 100%, that's why i dont want to buy dealer's demo cars... But i think your battery loose too much capacity in only 2 years, i'm afraid for my 77kwh! We are at the beginning of the troubles i think whith electric cars... One question Chris, I would like to know why VW counts immobility days? Is it most important for the battery than usage days?

Hello Chris, What is VW opinion about calibrating the battery with charging it Up to 100% ? Is it good For battery HealthKit?

The annoying thing is that MEB cars are silent about faulty or dead modules. The user just sees less capacity and won't know if that's "nornal" degradation or what.

Very interesting. I think this degradation is pretty high, despite its not linear. Last year I checked our Tesla Model S 90D with ~180tkm. I drove it to around zero kilometers and stood in the garage for over an hour with heater on full power. So the battery must have been very empty. Then I charged to 100%, checked the kWh gone in to the battery the car reported (not the value the wallbox reports, thats without charging losses!), and calculated with the usebable capacity when the car was new. I came up with 13% degradation. The car was at this point five years old and had around 180tkm. It often charges DC, i would say around 50% because of many long trips (and free Supercharging ;) ). So in comparison with this two cars I think this value on your ID3 is pretty high. I also drive an ID3, I think Im getting my battery checked too some time. Very interesting topic, keep going!

VW said they wont provide the battery readout? is this right?

i have limited my car to max 80% and will try not to DC charge it and hope this will keep the battery from degrading to much...i am curious to see how much this will help ones i have hade the car for a few years.

Interesting, I'll have to check the small print of my lease agreement to see if there's anything in there about not charging it to 100% all the time and what, if anything, is considered as required maintenance as far as the battery is concerned. Perhaps the first generation of EV leases won't be affected, but if they start getting long term leases (3/4 years) with degraded batteries back, I wonder if they'll add something into the lease conditions...

That is why buy a 77kw should be a good ideia... to Stay at last with 70k

I have a question that is not related to the subject: Do you have the version 3.0 on your ID3? (And congratulations on all the publications you make).

It would be interesting to know the SoH measured with car scanner, is it more or less the same??

Hey Chris (or is it Kris??). Great information from reliable sources. I'm looking forward to see next year's report. So far I haven't kept any of my electric cars for over a year due to the crazy used car market in Canada I'm changing cars every year and MAKING money on it. I have an id.4 on order and it may end being the last electric I buy for a while(it all depends on how this crazy used car market goes). The 2023 I'd.4 for Canada and the USA have a new battery in them, so your info may not be as pertinent as it was, but it's still a nice data point. I subscribed btw

10% degradation in just 27k miles is a bit disconcerting and seems a lot worse than we see with Tesla's. One test result with a Model 3 that spent over 50% of it's life on DC superchargers only showed 10% degradation after 100k miles.

I am still thinking :-) Your ID3 was made in 2019, so it has battery LG from Korea not from Poland (NMC 712). Could you please find out what kind of battery does have NMC 622?

Maybe it's just little to none upper buffer left by the manufacturer. If you know what i mean... Some, like Korean brands I believe - they leave some buffer not only at a low end but also on a high end of battery charge. So your battery is let's say 8 kWh bigger than what your BMS lets you use. And say 4kWh is left by the BMS on a low end + 4kWh on a high end. And when degradation happens - BMS just slices that upper buffer up until it's 0kWh - so you as an user can say "wow - that battery has such a great chemistry - I drove 60kkm for 2 years and no degradation - zero - nada ;) Maybe it's like that. Or maybe those first gen VW batteries are just bad. Time will tell.

Then VW should get another battery supplier. This resembles something like 10% drop in capacity after 200 full cycles equivalent. A decent battery wouldn't even hit that after 500 full equivalent cycles and it is actually quite easy to find suppliers that can achieve almost 1000 cycles to 90%. I didn't do any careful test but I estimate my ID 3 to have more than 90% after 100.000 km. But it has had only one or two short DC charges so it is almost 0% DC charging.

Nice info, thanks! Would you like to comment about the cost of that capacity / SoH test? I assume you got the test maybe for free from Volkswagen with your reputation as a youtuber, but how much it would cost for a paying customer in Germany?

Curb rash, welcome to the club. You should buy it from your leasing company then instantly sell it maybe just get it detailed first you'll get some money as used EV's are higher priced and you may even get what you bought it for.

I have a ID3 1st and I just think what is "normal" health? ( VW expected decline in % over time) and what percentage must it come down to before they will "repair / swop" the battery? I'm thinking of getting a test done shortly before the warranty runs out

ID.3 battery degradation seems to be a bit high imo. This could be an issue as cars get close to the end of battery warranty. Unless it settles there will be a Batterygate issue in the future.

According to Teslafi my Model 3 LR has now lost about 9% in 2 years and 29k km. That's calculated from range at 100% SoC. About 50% DC fast charging, the rest of the time rarely charged over 60%

Will be interesting to see what the unified cell that comes with facelift will be like.

I wonder how long will you get software updates?

My 2017 e-Golf battery has about 8% degradation (have measured anywhere 6% to 9% depending on weather and driving style) at 48,000 miles. Most charging is AC at ~ 6 kW. Deg has dramatically slowed down since 18,000 miles to about ~1% since then.

Don't Awiloo take their degradation figure from the battery + buffer, so the 62kwh? So maybe the 7.(something) % from 62kwh will be around the 10% of 58kwh?

I charged always 100% 85.000km 14 months.

That degradation is significantly higher than it should be for 2 years with less than 30k miles especially with so few rapid charges to 100% , but this is why I say the warranty especially for 5 years should be unlimited mileage than 100,000 as it will be impossible to claim for degrading. Stating that life before warranty repair of a minimum 70% is just impossible to do , unless something goes drastically wrong even taxi staff wouldn’t be able to claim leaving secondary markets again with the raw end of the stick this is why I hope vw improve its chemistry or swap to lfp so it really improve. Even my Id 4 all wheel us model has lost 6% in 3 months that really doesn’t bold well I’m glad I’m leasing for 4 years maybe then vw will finally have improved to Mercedes level as it really doesn’t like the recent cold I lost 20% in two days frozen parked in the Buffalo weather . I’m sure winter testing should have hi-lighted this as it will affect sales

RU-vidr News Columb reported 90% battery on his 2017 Chevy Bold. So, 5 years and 156k miles (230k km ish). Maybe your ID.3 will remain at that level or have slower degradation going forward. I am disappointed with your results.

Still waiting to see a drop in range on my Catl pack after two years

Unless the degradation slows, isn’t the car heading for a battery warranty claim in 6 years time?

Be interesting to see where this goes in the next few years. 10% in 2 years seems a little high, but I know the deg isn't linear and it tails off. But, for those wondering why perhaps the likes of Toyota have been quite slow to EVs. Well, this is surely one of the reasons. They are targeting this kind of degradation at the end of 10years. 90% SOH at 10 years. Think about that! current technology would seem like it does not quite fit the Toyota brand values just yet. We'll get there though! some clever cloggs somewhere will solve this problem.

Doesn't VW say that if it drops more than 7% in 8 years you are untitled to battery replacement? 🧐

What does carscanner say about your battery? How many kw it say?

What was the price for testing the batterij at VWcenter?

10% in 2 years 🤣🤣 I'll keep my combustion engine thanks , it's 21 years old , a LS1 V8 engine still gets about 30 UK mpg , no range loss.

10% in 26 months sounds a lot. Does not sound good. Also interesting, if I understood correctly, is that VW only charged tor 97% for the degradation test. Isn't the test supposed to be from 100%?

My obd dongle reports 100% SOH at 16000 km on my Kona at 2 years old

So if you started with a 58kWh usable that now it is 10.4% less. So 89.6% of 58kWh = 51.96kWh at 27K km or 2yrs. Here I thought that the pack was a 62kWh pack with 58kWh usable. So there was a 4kWh "buffer." Does the BMS have that 4kWh buffer from software version 2.1 that the car came with? Was there a change to that buffer with software version 3.0? Can such be confirmed by VW?

You are the best!!! What's your overall kWh/100klm for all your driven kilometers?

I am uncomfortable with the concept of rapid DC charging which I believe leads to premature degradation, so I only ever use AC.

What was the cost of the battry test?

Why do you say 10 POINT 4 but write it 10,4? Is it because you’re speaking English? Or is that the same in German but you write it as a comma?

Next up VW tells you how many times you visited a fast food place and how this impacts your life span by 10%. That seems like a lot of degradation for your battery. Hopefully that really stabilizes going forward. thanks Chris!

45,000 km 12,040 kWh 26.75kWh/100km That's only 2.3mi/kWh if I've worked it out correctly. It must be cold there 😆

Get a tesla next time, I just change my id4 to a tesla y , best decision ever, better on every level

Who cares when most people hand them back after 2-3yrs?! Somebody else's problem then.