I've had both. Wahoo refunded me full price after 3 "broken" units. The neo 2 is now going back to factory (for the 2nd time) and I'm negotiating a refund because it's completely broken (I have video of it - sounds like stones are going inside the motor)!! If i get full refund i'll be moving to elite direto X.
@@SmartBikeTrainers let me know if you want any trainer to go bazurk. If I buy them, they will become troublesome. I had the initial versions (October 2018) of the wahoo kickr 2018 and their unbalanced flywheel problem (drone noise). Now I have the neo 2 with the grinding noise (you do a quick search there are already several videos with it). Maybe I'll go for the elite so the brand does not go unscathed :p
I bought the 2T here in the US just over two weeks ago and I’ve had no problems in the first 100 miles. I’m new to trainers so I went with the 2T due to overall simplicity. My local bike shop installed the cassette and I was up and running at home in just a few mins. Very happy with my purchase. PS: I didn’t realize the Neo had a “road feel” feature until I crossed some planks in Zwift near the London Eye. Needless to say I was surprised and delighted.
@@DaveVT5 Yeah . The price isn't that cheap. I have made my own research to compare other trainers but they have some issues. Hope it will be great. Thanks for your feedback.
Comparing Tacx GArmin to Wahoo after having used both. After testing both the Neo 2T and Neo 2 and WAhoo kickr 2018. I noticed the Neo 2T (Torque) felt harder to paddle the same watts fi 300 watts than on this same 300 watts (my ftp) on my Wahoo kickr. PRobably due too the differences in ride feel between the WAhoo real 5,4 kg flywheel and the Garmin tacx 2t virtual flywheel. IT feels like the wahoo kickr had more momentum than the 2t . With the older neo 2 this momentum difference was less obvious in my experience. DC rainmaker describes this feeling like hitting a wall at entering a new High intensity high watts intervall block on the 2t wich probably was intended to avoid slipping. I also noticed the neo 2t i tested in the shop was a little bit out of balance leaning more to the right wich was solved by putting a magazine under the right "leg" to restOre the unbalance. Typical company sales strategy difference example. WHen a new software feature is available for the Wahoo kickr 2018 like last 2019 and 2020 Wahoo added Cadance as data transmission over bluetooth and in 2020 over ant+ they released this new feature available for the old wahoo kickr 2018 users as a firmware update for free ! They could have released a new kickr 2018 plus version WITH THE ADDED CADANCE feature and sell it for extra money but they did not . But when GArmin releases a new SOFTWARE / Firmware feature for instance like they did with the Garmin Edge 130 cycle computer by adding "Stuctured Workouts, Climb Pro, and Mountain bike metrics, " wich are software features they did not make this available for their loyal GArmin edge 130 users as a free firmware update. In stead they released a new more expensive product with for 99% the same hardware call it the Edge plus and include it with the mentioned new firmware update features so older edge 130 users could not benefit them for free unless they would buy the same hardware edge 130 in the newer plus version. I am OR WAS a biG fan of TAcx too as living in the NEtherlands I wished TAcx as an original passionate dutch company that was passed on from Tacx family generation to generation : the best! Therefor I also have bought a NEW TAcx dutch smart wheel on (bluetooth and ant+ fe-c) home trainer the Tacx Vortex multiplayer Bundle for € 400 wich came with the PC real live video software TTS ( Tacx Training SOftware) DVD-Rom and serial activation number in the box . I purchased some EXTRA licenseS to do multiplaYer events and made LOTS OF TTS custom workouts I enjoyEd riding their TTS 4 virtual world the Velodome. I enjoyed tacX their rlv good HD quality video's like the France alpine classics. But this ALL stopped when GArmin bought TAcx in 2019 and decided to no longer support the TTS PC training software with future updates I have payed for . Also If I want to ride the real life video's like I could with the TAcx TTS PC software now I will need to buy and pay extra for a monthly subscription for the Tacx Desktop App wich only works with Tacx smart trainers like the neo and won't work with my wahoo kickr anymore. While the old Tacx TTS 4 PC software before Garmin took over did work with my Wahoo kickr Ant+ fe-C device too! So i agree with others . TAcx was much better off in the Netherlands before Garmin took over and started screwing me as an old Dutch Tacx product 40 years old experienced user.
My first choice was a NEO 1/2 but down here in Africa NEO deals are hard to come by. I then went with my second option, the Kickr18 and absolutely love it! I didn't get to demo either of them prior to purchase so I don't know what the NEO is like but I don't think one would go wrong either of these trainers. The only feature that made the NEO my first choice was the no calibration requirement. Feels like it is a time saver and removes accuracy doubts. As always, great video!
@Watts Up I have also seen great consistency and accuracy in comparison to my P2M NGeco that I no longer calibrate as often. Before my purchase I thought that was what edged it for the NEO, but now I am not regretting my purchase one bit. I love my Kickr!
I owned the Wahoo Kickr for many thousands of miles and hundreds of rides and for four years now, but it recently started to break down on me and tilt while riding so I figured I'd get another. I just bought the Tacx Neo 2T because there are no Wahoo Kickr v5s in stock anywhere :). I enjoyed my Kickr for years. The Tacx is smoother and quieter than my old version of the Kickr and I like the vibration and feel of it. We'll know in a couple years how durable it is by comparison. As the video says, you really can't go wrong here. They are both quite good. I like the Tacx better than the several year old Kickr, but haven't tried the 2018 or v5.
@@daddyandangels Glad to hear it has lasted a long time for you. I've heard from a reviewer it's not the best when doing an intense sprint, like it feels unstable and makes you go slower when sprinting, is that true?
@WichitaZachShaw well, I am 53. My intensity my not be all others can achieve. That said, I am 6-5, 300 pounds. I have never had an issue with the stability of the unit I have. I do not stand on it that often though. I could see it not enjoying the sway of a hard sprint or hill while someone my size stands and rocks. But, as mentioned, I do not do much of this. Mostly on the small steep inclined on one London route. I am comfortable with the stability. But if you stand and push a lot the experience may differ than my own.
I read so many testimonials on the problems with the "new" Kickr last year, so this year as I was searching for - maybe - a replacement for my H2, I investigated as much as possible on the Neo 2/2T and I keep reading very bad testimonies on FB users page ! Yeah, the numbers are theoretically good, but many many problems, and since Garmin bought Tacx, the post-sale customer service seems to be non-existent, at best. So in the end I chose to keep my H2, which does a good work (if only it was a little less noisy) and would only consider a H3 if the H2 stopped delivering a good performance. The H3 has a good price too, and with the deals you provide, it is a very good alternative for most people.
Wahoo and Tacx had their issues initially and both of mine were replaced as well. I think both sorted their issues out. Also, Keep in mind people who post on social media are the ones with issues. People with working units aren’t going to post.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Sure, but when you have a defective unit, the post sell service should do its job, and the testimonials should only be positive on social medias.
I have never ridden a Trax Neo, although some of its features sound very interesting and I’d like to compare it some day. I have a 2017 Kickr and the Kickr Climb. My Kickr is mounted on a Co-Plate rocker plate. I enjoy indoor riding much more since buying the Climb. Getting out of the saddle seems a lot more natural now. I stand and crank for longer periods than I did before buying the Climb and that prepares me better for real hills outside. The Climb makes the indoor rides more interesting as well. The rocker plate provides some side-to-side motion, which also contributes to the realism. Again I have not ridden a Trax so I cannot directly compare the two, but for me the Kickr Climb adds so much more to the experience that I cannot see myself riding a trainer that does not include that feature. Thanks for another informative video.
Thank you. I used the neo 2 with Canyon Speedmax (regarding TT issue you've mentionned) and I am very happy with no calibration feature and road feel 😉
I bought the Neo 2T and absolutely love it, you do awesome reviews. Thank you for that. I went with the 2T because I have everything Garmin and I haven’t had good luck with connections with my kicker so I sold it.. However the Garmin is just amazing, it connects every time. The road feel on the Tacx is awesome, no issues ever here, and your review with the response in erg mode is what sold it for me. Thank you for a great review
Bought the kicker core. Used regularly for a year and a 1/2. Then the ball bearings failed. It started grinding and got VERY noisy. I will say they swapped it out after I sent them a video of the noise it was making. …..NO CHARGE. But it is a pain to box up and mail it in. They did send me a label to use for free postage. Once I started boxing the unit up, I could here a ball Bearing rolling around in the housing. It’s never been moved around, or used outside. WAHOO did spend me a replacement “refurbished” unit very quickly. Which was great. I asked I could purchase the two year warranty on the refurbished unit they sent me. “No you cannot”, was the answer. But I was surprised this unit only lasted 18 months, under regular use.
Nice video! After selling a Technogym MyCycling I bought a Wahoo Kickr 2018 and after 300km I’m very happy of it. I chose Wahoo because I’m an ELEMNT BOLT owner and I think in a future upgrade with Kickr Climb.
Yeah! MyCycling was great but there are 2 things that I didn’t like: 1- Closed system (only Zwift and Technogym App) 2- Noise level... it was a chaos when I used it ;-)
Kickr bearings ate through the shaft of the flywheel within 6 months creating lots of noise and vibrations. Luckly i am a machinist by trade i had to press out the old shaft and re machine a new one, the new one is made of a harder steel 4140 the old one seemed extremely soft and could be just plain old mild steel.Then i made up a special washer for the pulley that drives the belt because the key tends to rock and creates a weird sensation of slip when riding.
For the Neo 2T, Tacx claims 142mm thru axle compatibility but then is providing a 2.7mm spacer because the rear caliper touches the unit. This effectively turns the trainer into a 144.7mm which is off with most current disc bikes of 142mm which as a consequence creates several problems (misalingned chainline, thru axle that does not attach entirely, tension in the rear trinagle of the bike - especially for those carbon bikes). Any comments on that? Thanks
I've just changed from a Neo to a Kickr v5. The Neo is generally pretty good, possibly the better of the two for riding around but it just can't handle sprinting. While it claims to be able to manage 2200w in reality I found that with sudden accelerations you could make it slip pretty consistantly at about 1200w if you accelerated too quickly or weren't on 11t. There's some small print about how you have to accelerate slowly and smoothly, use certain gears, etc, but no one is sprinting like that. As much as I loved that you could use it without power, or it spinning out on the descents, or the road feel options... in the end it was too limiting to me (as a sprinter) so I bought a Kickr.
@@virikshit Yep I'm still on the v5, I love it. I've had the Kickr v5 up to 1650w and no problems there :) I've not tried the 't' version of the Tacx Neo 2, but apparently they solved the slipping problem - I guess it just depends how much you trust Tacx :-P
@@RichardC1982 thank you very much for your reply. I went for wahoo kickr core in the end because of the price. Installed today, will try tomorrow. I live in a tropical island (Mauritius), it's summer for about 7 month here, so I'll ride mostly outside. Thanks again.
Thank you Tariqh for your recommendation. Got the Neo2T - Love it. I also got a 20% discount from your web site at REI. Thank you for that. Most online sellers were sold out REI had the NEO 2T in stock.
Wahoo kicker moved too much forward if I was pushing over 290watts for a few minutes or 700watts and standing up. I had wahoo floor mat and it didn't help. I always ended up a few cm from my tv and placed either to left or right.
Great video!! 👍🏻 Just unboxed my Kickr 18. Just a question, (wahoo for now hasn't reply to me yet), the campagnolo freehub for Kickr 18 comes with 2 spacer, one thin and the other is bigger. This 18 freehub should accept 12 - 11 - 10 speed, so if without spacer is 12 speed why in their instruction are refearing to 9 speed bigger spacer 10 speed thinner spacer and 11 no spacer? If the 18 freehub should accept 12 to 10, for 10 speed I've to put the bigger spacer.
grate review thanks a lot, I hope you can advise me, I'm just about to upgrade my Trainer, I have these two options. Used Tacx NEO (first gen, very good conditions) or a brand new wahoo kicker core. the NEO would be a better price
The H3 is not in the same ballpark as these two due to its accuracy issues which I talked about in my review here: www.smartbiketrainers.com/h3-smart-trainer-review-9052
I have had Kickr 2018 since November 2018 and have NEVER been satisfied with it. In fact I have DESPISED the KICKR since its purchase. Resistance has never felt to be the equivalent of road riding whether I am using a Zwift course or a Rouvy course. The KICKR turns me into a grinder. Vibration from the unit has increased significantly even with just occasional use, too. I still prefer my Rollers with Resistance, using some good power pedals, when riding either a Zwift or Rouvy course.
I found it ! Lol great video ! I like the Neo since it's Garmin and I already have everything from then ( heart rate band, watch, cycling computer ... ) is there any recent version from Wahoo that can actually fight against the Neo 2T Smart ?
3 yr old Kickr with 9k miles on it. I don’t like the noise so last year I bought a neo, returned it the next day, the kickr feels more realistic to me and the slippage on the New York kom was just awful. I don’t trust the new kickr after all the broken ones online. So I’ll keep this one until it pops!
How wide is the tacx where the chain stays might touch? I'm concerned mine may be too tight. I haven't gotten a response from Tacx on compatibility yet. I have a 2011 Basso Astra.
Hi I think we have the same TRI bike BMC Time Machine 01.(SRAM eRed-11/28 Cassette). Did you use a spacer to setup your Tacxs Neo 2t? which one did you use? Do you have a video on how you did it? thanks in advance
I still have my old, fan based LeMond Revolution. Old school, but the feel is still way better than tacx or wahoo. But...no zwifting, so it’s time to get a new one.
I am a light rider and descents on simulators are unrealistic. -4% and still having to put in decent wattage to go 22mph!! does the Neo downhill drive make downhill speeds more realistic or just stop the flywheel from slowing down? Not sure whether to get a Neo 2 or Wahoo Kickr
Depends on the app you use. With the Neo, I do find myself able to pedal and push down descents if I wanted to. Or just sit down and relax and let gravity do its thing. On the other hand, I think the kickr with a physical flywheel can simulate steeper descents better but can also lose flywheel speed on moderate descents.
Thanks for the advice. I am currently using the old Bkool Smart pro which has no flywheel so either of the trainers would be a huge improvement. Also using the Bkool app which ,in my opinion, is underrated! Lots of routes and workouts and has been greatly improved over last few years. @@SmartBikeTrainers
I am finding when I use my Flux I need to make rear derailleur adjustments for downshifting. I have to shift twice to get it downshift. Is this a common problem or am I missing something? Upshifts seems to be fine for the most part. My derailleur shifts fine when I have my wheel on and I'm running eTap 11-speed. When I mounted the cassette the Tacx directions said no spacer was needed so I believe I have everything set up properly. Any help is appreciated.
Is there anyone out there who has had a kickr that has lasted for years without a problem? I know most people only leave reviews when they have a problem but man thats all I see when I search wahoo kickr. Being a middle income guy I cant afford to pay that kind of money for an item that wont last. Where can I find reviews of people saying I love my kickr it has lasted me 5 years with no problems. I hear they have great customer service. But what happens when the warranty expires? You buy a new one? After all my research I am afraid to buy one and will probably stick with my kinetic road machine with inride.
Hi there, I'm keen on purchasing the Wahoo KICKR for my wife and I to train on. One question though, she is running 11sp Campag and I'm running 11sp SRAM. Is the 11sp cassette that comes with the KICKR compatible with both SRAM and Campag, or will one of us have shifting issues? Thanks in advance...
Thanks for the great videos Tariq. I'm still unsure about which to get (P.S. this would be my first trainer but I would like to get the current best one so I can use it for a few years): Wahoo Kickr pros: Easier to move around Multi Channel Bluetooth Supports Kickr Climb (which Neo currently doesn't have something similar) Neo 2T: Simulates gravel roads etc (but needs to be plugged in, without that feature on it's self powered) Virtual Flywheel (sounds like it's a better option) Garmin bought Tacx company so will probably invest more and add more accessories to compete with Wahoo? Neo 2T is about $250 more expensive than Kickr (since need to buy a cassette too when Kickr comes with one). I'm conflicted. What should I do? Will Kickr have a new version coming out soon? I'm assuming Tacx won't since they upgraded the Neo 2 recently with the 2T model. Shoukran Tariq.
Went for the Tacx Neo 2T. It is certainly pricey but the reactivity and terrain response on Zwift are top notch in recreating the road conditions! (Hard to explain but you distinguish clearly a wooden bridge from a pavement for example). Comes with plenty of small accessories to accommodate any bike. I have a thru axle (ultegra groupset with disc brakes). Connected the trainer in few seconds. Totally satisfied!
Great Video - I would also like to add that the recent Kickrs (made in Mid-2019) are being made so have the cadence sensors integrated into the system. My replacement Kickr has it. However, the cadence sensor is choppy, and calibration does not improve this. Example - my cadence spikes to 160+ on occasion for lengthy periods of time. This is annoying, and does not allow me to assess my cadence results on my Garmin. I am not sure if this is a Zwift or Wahoo issue at this time.
Right, the cadence measurement was added to all 2018 models via a firmware update alongside the multi-Bluetooth channel. Wahoo calculates the cadence like most other trainers based on different factors such as speed and power and it can be off at times when resistance is very low and you will see these type of spikes.
It's a firmware addition to the .70 firmware not a hardware update, so all Kickr18 / Core get it if you upgrade the firmware from .68/.69. Also get the multichannel bluetooth. I've not seen any spike issues. Only issue I have is the lag before it starts becoming accurate. Could get that down to 1-2s from 3-5s.
Until the day they use an infrared or laser sensor directly (from the home trainer to the cyclist's pedal or leg), I don't see how they could display a precise pedalling frequency. This can only be an estimate, and no formula in the world can ever replace a direct measurement. (They can also add a traditional magnet sensor if it is cheaper than a possible infra-red/laser system.) But waiting for an ultra-precise measurement before that, and thinking that it would be a firmware error is, I think, naive.
They are getting very good at cadence calculation and it’s probably more than good enough for most users. Some trainers use an actual sensor like the MyCycling from TechnoGym. The Neo has a capacitive cadence sensor built in to detect cadence which I find to be very good and eliminates some of the spikes or dropouts that you might see with trainers that try to estimate cadence like the Kickr.
Hello, I would like to buy a smart trainer for the Winter. I would like to spend not more than 600 Euro. Can anybody give me a recommendation? Thank you for your help 👍
For the NEO2T you're saying that we can't use a separate bike mounted PM for Power Source even on Zwift? Surely the option to use my Stages PM for "Power Source" and NEO2T for "Resistance" still exists on Zwift, no?!
@@SmartBikeTrainers @ 7:05 !? Sorry if I misunderstood but I've re-watched it 3 times and that seems to be what you said? Either way - glad to hear - thought it would have been odd to not have that freedom but better to ask ! Excellent video - it helped seal the deal for NEO2T for us.
Ahh... wahoo has its own powermatch feature. You can setup the kickr to use a third party power meter rather than its own. Once that is setup, then you can pair to Zwift as the kickr and not worry about pairing your own power meter. This is useful in cases where you are limited on the number of devices you can use such as Apple TV. Also, if your power meter is only ant+ and you want to pair in Bluetooth, this comes in handy.
Depending on your needs. Peloton or Keizer aren’t considered smart and geared towards spin type workouts where these trainers are geared toward cyclists who want to replicate their outdoor riding experience indoors and do structured training.
Hi I have kicker core 2018, but it's not working properly plz help me what I do I has been sending mail to wahoo for three months but I am in long queue Iam unable to use core. Plzz. Help me & I am sending video also
I got myself the kicker core to discover that they have problems with vibrations and bearings. Their warranty is not good. Please have a video to warn people
SamLGND hi. Can’t base or judge the product from my experience only. The thing that I know is that I bought the item and it was defected from the box. It took me two month, new chain, new cassette and like 4 visits from mechanic to discover that. I also communicated with wahoo and they were not willing to do what is needed to pull the product.... the local dealer charges more than 30 percent and there seem no regulation for import, warranty limitations, local dealership.... I was not happy from the product, warranty conditions and local dealer pricing strategy. This all fuss would have not happened if the product was checked for quality. I also discovered that my challenge is common. Just refer to reviews on wahoo kicker core page on wahoo site
So disappointed with my Kickr. I have the 2018 version and normally last 3000km each. I got 3 in one year of warranty and my 3 it looks like may end up like the other ones . After 2000km they start making noises. I am not sure about the Tacx but for sure save your money on kickr
have you been able to solve the problem? i have the kickr 2018 and when I increase the power it begins to vibrate and make noise too... very disappointed
Yap as i said my 3 gone also. I end up getting a 4 replacement and this one I got was in such poor condition because it was off of my “warranty” some people would think that was nice from them to send me a replacement after warranty finish but if you think about it I never got a good one from day 1. Unfortunately they couldn’t refund me because I bought mine in wiggle so I didn’t make a direct purchase from them. Guys honestly buy a tacx neo it’s the way to go. Powerless cord need it Road feel Power data in both pedals Smooth erg mode Not so rigid wile riding (your bike and you body appreciate that) At least this is my expirence.
I was about to pull the trigger and buy the Neo 2T but have started to see more and more comments on forums concerning issues with the bearings and/or overheating... do you have any thoughts on such claims? I have just returned my Elite Suito after 3 months of use (due to a knocking sound when turning the flywheel) and really want my next purchase to stand the test of time! Considering the aforementioned issues with the Tacx, the Kickr 2020 seems to be the best alternative with no durability/quality issues to note? Thanks!
I’ve had the NEO 2T since it was released and no issues with mine. Also The Kickr 2020 is a solid choice and you will be happy with it. You might have an easier time getting a kickr now with the Neo out of stock in most places.
Cc Banger I understand Inside Ride made what looks like a great rocker for the Kickr, but as DC Rainmaker states and I wrote, the Inside Ride E-Flex is not compatible with the Kickr Climb. Still, I am wondering if anyone has tried the Climb with the E-Flex to see if they can work together.
Wahoo kickr is grate! But… Wahoo App is so basic and unsatisfactory. You can’t setup a training, you must use your watch or ciclocomputer, it just can record what you did. Other thing is you can’t change to another app wile you’re training because the app restarts itself.
We have 2020 now... and my question is: Was Wahoo able to eliminate the noise and vibrating problems on the Kickr? I would like to buy a Kickr with a Climb (have a Neo) but I read so much about these problems that it makes me unsure? Thank you!
Wahoo sent reconditioned Kickr back to me, they should have replaced it with a new one. Second one was worse........ I’ll never buy another wahoo product again. I got scammed.......
SamLGND I would prefer arguments based on own experiences. But if DCR is your pope and you believe everything what he is saying, than I’m ok with that ;)
@@SamLGND For almost 2 years I have been producing rocker plates for all kinds of trainers and trainer setups. As I am also an unbiased dealer for all available Smart trainers, I can compare the three major brands (Wahoo, Tacx, Elite) with brands of Saris (incl. Mp1) and Kinetic. Just because I don't do RU-vid videos like a DCR or others doesn't mean that I have no idea what the trainers or different solutions can do. I deal with this topic every day and always in the interest and for the benefit of the end users. So in short: yes, multiple times
I understand some people get good units, but for the rest of us who spend $1200.00 and get crap.........well just want everyone to know. Customer service is crap!!! Go with another brand.
After 10 months and 2,600 miles... My 2018 Kickr died. Won't hold erg power and it sounds like my 98 Camaro's exhaust! Link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mbM1oI5UZS8.html I DO NOT recommend a Wahoo Kickr. This is devastating, such a waste of money.
