Just a quick update for folks - as of Dec 29th 2020, Wahoo has released a firmware update to fix the accuracy issues. More details here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-r7HQqP9y15I.html
I'm 9 minutes into the review of a $1200 smart trainer, and the feature discussed so far is whether a rubber pod is compressing or not. And then Ray just closes this part with "tennis balls are probably a better option". I nearly choked on my dinner.
@@Dcrainmaker in fact, for me it was the decision maker towards the TACX Neo 2…many thanks indeed…I was looking exactly for this kind of upgrade to my existing 8 year old setup
If you have a previous kickr, go to a hardware store and get some washing machine anti-vibration feet. They are just thick recycled rubber mats. You can put more or less under there depending on how much movement you want.
Is possible know for you knowledge, for your opinion wich trainner is more accurate? and what really you recommended? Saris H3, Elite Suito, Wahoo kikr? i want to buy my first smart trainner and i dont know to much. i want not to veri high in price but one that really value the price. Thanks for you time and recomendation.
The whole reason why adapters exist is in order to EXTEND the compatibility through Interface 1 to also allow it through Interface 2. In the kickr’s case, the RJ11 port is entirely useless in and of itself - you HAVE TO buy the adapter in order to actually use the feature. It’s basically like buying a power bank that has an old serial port that you first need to buy a Serial2USB adapter for. Given that I would frankly refrain from calling this port an actual feature of the new kickr. The wired connectivity is a feature of the dongle - not the bike.
Correct. Usually a proprietry connection is used where a manufacturer wants to use their connection but an adapter can be used to convert to a different connection. In this case Wahoo are offering a connection that cannot be used by anyone unless extra cash is spent. Unless the RJ45 connection requires a significant cost per unit and so Wahoo are transferring that cost to only the customers that want it and not onto every single Kickr?
Great video as always. I don’t think that creak is your bottom bracket. You’ll notice that the creak is not there when your standing out of the saddle. Best to rule out the 1. seat post (remove, clean regrease with carbon paste) 2 Saddle rails clean, regrease and torque 3. Rear skewer remove clean and regrease I had this issue in my Canyonand it turned out to be both the saddle rails and rear skewer. Good luck.
A took recite of the new KICKR this morning. The KICKR broke, same way as the 2018 version first time I used it (or at least it sounds the same). I actually broke when I was trying to do some heavy gear efforts.
It actually looks like the compression is actually impacted mostly by the rubber at the back/bottom. thats where the roll comes from, the feet only stops it,
I just purchased a Kickr v5 and got it set up last night, coming from an Elite Direto that I've been training on for 4 years. A couple of things that have been troubling me that are different then the way the Direto functioned, wondering if I can work that out. I'm pairing with Apple 4k TV via Bluetooth and using Zwift. I did a quick test in ERG mode, first thing is that when I accelerate or spin up faster, the power or speed does not change in Zwift. I know ERG holds you to a certain power, but on the Direto it would show those changes (increase speed and power in Zwift) then average back down to the set power within a few seconds. Maybe this is something that can be changed in the APP? I haven't tried to play with the ERG mode smoothing or speed simulation yet. I'm hoping that will make it more like what I was used too. Second, the effort at a given power in ERG mode seams to be way off. I know the Kickr is suppose to be more accurate then the Direto, but this is like 15% - 20% difference. Example; Doing a Vo2 set of 5min x 5 ERG intervals, usually around 310w, I could barely get through the first one, and during the 2nd I had to drop the power to around 270w, and that felt more like what I was used too on the Direto. My last 20min FTP test on that trainer was 264w (2 weeks ago/ 56yrs old 77kg) which is up from 240w a few months ago. Maybe the Direto just sucked when it came to accuracy, and if that's the case I'll have to re-adjust all my workouts to match the lower power numbers that the Kickr is reporting, kind of sucks from a motivation stand point :-( My power numbers have improved outside on the bike too, but the funny thing is I've always been able to hold more power on the trainer then on the bike, a lot of people report the opposite.
I have a new KICKR purchased Aug 2022 and had a problem straight away with the Cadence tracking. It would jump all over the place during a workout, causing the resistance to constantly change as well - very frustrating. I just exchanged an email with support and they told me to do a Factory Spin-down. I plan to try this in the morning.
Enjoyed the review as always. Oh the joys of bottom brackets. Wouldn't be a press fit would it ? Maybe you could do a review of options available on the market ? Are your chainrings straight? The clip makes them look bent or are they oval ?
@@markstone5390 I suspect so, it's not that old a unit. I seems to have more play than it should this week. In looking down on it, there's clearly some lateral wiggle occuring. I'm not really a BB expert. Usually I just replace it and call it done.
So far Direto XR seems best trainer out there considering it cost 500 eur less but has improved in max gradient, power accuracy and ability to broadcast BT and ANT+ simultaneously. Only thing it does not have is wired connectivity. Maybe Im missing smth obvious, but what's the point now of getting kickr or neo, when xr so much improved?
I bought the V4 refurbished (its my first one) w/ 1 year warranty for 599€ the prices are too high for V6 and i was looking for V5 near my city but the most near is like 700 km away so... finally i just taked the V4 in the offical store.
The cassette isn’t great, it’s a standard sun race but I found mine was noisy on sprockets 2-4, this goes away if you fit an equivalent shimano 11sp. If you have a 2020 Giant TCR disc and a few other bikes from Trek and Canyon then the thru axle adapter isn’t Compatible with the dropouts on the frame so it won’t work with those bikes. The fix is to get a spare spacer and machine a few mm off the shoulder: or get your local machine shop to turn a new one for you from alloy bar stock. Otherwise I got my V5 at new year and enjoy using it, the ERG can be caught out if you freewheel for a few seconds when adjusting a shoe etc. but as noted in the video it resets if you let it spin down and start pedalling again.
Hey Dc Rainmaker love your videos, big fan! While testing the Wahoo Kickr v5 did you have any issues with compatibility with the Canyon ultimate cf sl?? I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and It says it's not compatible with the kickr.. do you have a solution maybe or a recomendation what to do? I've seen some that put washers or grind away a few milimiters from the wahoo kickr.. thanks in advance for the response :) Keep up the good work!
Great in-depth review as always. Have you thought of winding the feet all the way in? The central foot appears to have a chamfer “v” profile between the grey and black material (are they different density rubber/plastic?) allowing the trainer to tip from side to side. With the outer feet wound all the way out, the outriggers are effectively taking proportionally more load, preventing the trainer from rocking. Im wondering if you wound in the outrigger feet, would it allow the central foot to take the weight and the outriggers to absorb the rock when you’re desired amount of “rock” is reached?
Yeah, I played a bit. If I pulled the feet in a bit, then I got rocking, but only because I was airgapped on both sides.So more bouncing than compression. In my case, I put the feet out all the way till they touched the ground solidly on both sides, which is supposed to be how it works. And, on concrete it does absorb more for sure.
Is there any noise issue again? Do I need to send it back again and again? The nightmare is happened repeatedly on my Kickr 4. I don't trust them and I won't recommend Wahoo's prodcut to my friends anymore.
DC Rainmaker , thanks you for your review. I am conducting research on which smart trainer I will purchase. At this time it is between the Wahoo Kicker and Tac X neo. But the question I have or you is...........what is your thought on using a carbon fiber frame “I have a Scott foil” I’ve read it’s not recommended by some bike manufacturers.
Thanks for the video. So now extra sensors are needed? Just the heart rate sensor? The Wahoo Kickr gives power, speed, and cadence on its own while giving the right resistance?
When looking at the video from the rear, a lot of the play seems to be in the frame of the kickr itself, not in the feet. Both old feet and new feet showed a decent amount of flex overall, despite the new feet visibly compressing much more than the old feet. Is a test on the hardwood floor of an apartment with sound measurement from the unit below out of the question? Also plagued by wireless dropouts. Sufferfest always has far fewer dropouts than Zwift. Just gonna say that my technical issues with my kicker (purchased in December of 2019) seem to be more of a Zwift thing than anything else. I've definitely noticed a huge issue with power surges (like, I can feel my effort spiking dramatically compared to the numbers on screen). Would connecting my Vector3 pedals get a much smoother power response on races (and fewer/no dropouts when connecting to Zwift)? I like the feel of the kickr, but overall I'm kickng myself for not getting a different smart trainer.
Interesting, I guess when Wahoo says the tilt is 5 degrees total, they’re not joking, so it’s likely just tilt 2.5deg on one direction which pretty much looks like what’s shown in the video. I would think the reason why Wahoo didn’t make it go further is for compatibility with the Kickr Climb as tilt it further and you could really topple. Though perhaps this extra degree of movement is all what’s needed to improve the feel on the trainer for long rides without feeling like you’re rear end is bolted on a hard surface?
Glad to hear that running changes for reliability are on recent 2018 models --- I literally just unboxed my third 2018 unit. Both of my earlier units died the same way with no power/speed. My second one was also super noisy. A pain, but Wahoo's customer service was really good both times.
My Wahoo Bolt had a small blemish in the screen and I got ahold of their tech support, they sent another one right away once I sent mine back, Seemed like awesome service, they even let me choose a different colored one for the new one.
Brilliant run down on the Wahoo kicker, exactly the information i was looking for. I am interested to know if you made a similar tutorial on the Tacx Neo 2 im looking for a smart trainer and was wondering which one to go for so keen to see how the Tacx preform, noise level glitches if there are any and performance. i heard their customers service is not the best, is there any truth to this rumor? I am interested in dimensions of widths for both trainers when legs open as i have limited floor space. Can you help? Many thanks
How does the noise and vibration compares to the Tacx Neo (any decibel figures?)? And how does it compare with it in terms of pedaling smoothness? Tried a Tacx Neo and it was fine, now doing some research about this Kickr 5 for the upcoming indoor season ;)
Very good review, i get a little lost with the data at the end is the over surge a real bad thing? would you recommend buying or is my money better somewhere else. stay well cheers
Not a major bad thing, but not ideal either. Sorta if one of your car windows got stuck 1cm from the top while trying to close. Probably not the end of the world, but not ideal if it dumps out. I suspect they'll get it sorted in short order.
I’ve just bought one of these. Everything I own is pretty much Garmin, I cannot figure out a way to get my heart rate on any apps on my Apple TV or my iPad :(. I am using a Garmin HRM which i believe is Ant+ (Had it a few years) I assumed that the Garmin would talk to the kickr and the kickr would broadcast to the apple device, but it seems it doesn’t, it just talks to the apple device. How is ant+ / Bluetooth still an issue with anything not Garmin?? Can I just get it all to talk to my Garmin 820 instead and upload to training peaks that way? I really don’t want to have to fork out for a new HRM again, I had to give up with my Polar one years ago because that wouldn’t talk to any of my Garmin stuff!
Strictly speaking the HRM's dont talk to the kickr itself (what would it do with the data?). If you're on something like Zwift, then use the companion app to link all your stuff together. I use Zwift through Apple TV and its the companion app that links it all together. Just make sure that Apple TV is also on wifi if using that
Thanks, great video! I tried to change out the feet caps but only managed to yank off the rubber part. How do you change those? Also, my Kickr seems fairly loud, so I guess “quiet” is in the ears of the hearer. Some have suggested changing the cassette to a Shimano to reduce noise. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Hi Ray, great video as all of them! i’m an owner of the Kikr 2018; i was about to buy the new Trek Emonda 2021 and i’ve just red wahoo says Kikr is not compatible with new emonda. how you see this? do you think wahoo will implement something? thanks
That would be nice, I'm thinking even if it were possible, would Wahoo actually do it and potentially lose sales of the new Kickr. Then again, would someone buy a new Kickr (if they had the v4) just so they wouldn't have to perform a spindown?
@@paulinfrancis I know what you mean. I have the V4 also and the only reason I'd get a V5 is if / when this one dies (I'm actually on my 4th in 2 years) and the warranty is about to expire in December 2020. The V5 will need to be practically bulletproof for me to think about dropping not an insignificant amount of cash on it. But then again I also know people that have gone through multiple Tacx Neos. You'd think for the premium price tag the quality of these things would be so much better
Another awesome video Ray! I am thinking of upgrading to eTap AXS 12 speed group set. Have you tried this on the kicker and what adjustments are required? Thanks and keep up the great work!
I haven't tried that, as I don't have an AXS bike (just a regular 11sp eTAP bike). That said, you'd simply need the Wahoo XD/XDR freehub (I think $59), and then a normal 12-speed AXS cassette. Quick and easy to swap.
Would you recommend the Tacx Neo T2 or the new Kickr, based on your experience? Looking to upgrade my old trainer, and is indecisive between the two. Both seem to have their flaws and strengths.
neo 2t have a bearing issue....search for it and youll see a great video. I was in the same boat as you and now for sure not getting the neo 2t. Itll be kickr or H3 for cheaper for me.
Hi DC Rainmaker, great vid, thx for that, short question re clearance. On my Taxc Neo 1 I cant ride in gear one as the cage on my 11 speed C is touching the plastic of the Neo. It looks that the Kickr V5 doesnt have the issue, can you confirm ? Same if you have disc brakes. Seen brakes touching the plastic cover too (currently not an issue for me as I have Rim Bs).
Has anyone tried to see if the thru-axle adapter from Tacx (part # S0040), works on the Kickr? I have a 2015 Diverge Carbon Comp that has a 135 x 12 thru-axle. So far it seems that a Tacx Neo 2T is the only trainer I can use. But I see from a number of folks the bearings keep going bad on them and Garmin doesn't care.
Question, the % accuracy claims regarding power. What is this in reference to? Is it compared to some standardised test that all manufacturers adhere to and can perform? Or is just marketing claims with no real solid scientific basis. For example if you had a weight scale and said it was 99% accurate that should be against the international standard of what 1kg is. Is this
Do you know if Wahoo has stated if running this trainer hardwired will resolve the current issue with Wahoo trainers not being able to operate in the same room as each other ( due to excessive signal interference)? As an aside, this would be an interesting thing to add/evaluate in general reviews ( which brands can/can't operate next to another smart trainer) , as this fact was only advertised after contacting the Wahoo help line.
There's no issues with Wahoo trainers and interference. I've been to countless events with a dozen Wahoo trainers in the room without issue. ANT+ & BLE have their own unique ID's. I'm honestly not sure what on earth Wahoo support is talking about there (since they regularly hold events themselves with Zwift and other platforms...well...pre-COVID anyway).
One question. If this Kickr v5 is essentially the culmination of months of refinement, so an evolution, not a revolution, and the internals are essentially the same, then will the Kickr18 be getting a firmware update to include the autocalibration support that this v5 / 2020 model has?
I was wondering the same thing, but in terms of why the accuracy is suddenly so brutal in sim mode on this one if it's essentially the same as the "improved" Kickr18--is the auto-calibration throwing things off?
I'm really hoping they push a firmware update to do just that on the Kickr18. Not sure how that'd affect sales of the newer device, but it does look like most of the hardware from Kickr18 is used on this new V5, apart from the feet being included with a V5 purchase. With the Kickr18 and V5 prices being the same, you're effectively then just getting the new feet for free. So they shouldn't be creating a big Excess & Obsolete inventory problem and that firmware update would surely also restore some lost confidence in the Wahoo brand for those that have had warranty issues to deal with.
@@aiyaaz1 I don't think there are many kickr '18's in stock in most places anymore. I'm semi hoping that places try to clear them out though for the v5. Would be a good way to get a unit.
@@rishabhphukan8339 yeah definitely should be some deals to be had on Kickr18 units. I have one and love it. It is a very solid trainer and I feel no need to "upgrade" to V5 to be honest.
Any idea why my new 2020 Kickr suddenly locks up? Riding Zwift the resistance fluctuates from nothing at all spinning out to too difficult to turn the cranks. It just started doing this the other day. Workouts in ERG mode, everything is fine. It's the free rides or races when the thing seizes up. And this is my second v5 from Wahoo (the first one had a rattling flywheel). Totally disgusted. Amazing Wahoo is still having issue with their trainers.
Hey @DCRainmaker you probably want to test Zwift in ERG mode as well, I’m pretty sure you’ll see the low cadence issue there as well as I have seen in my Kickr ‘18. Probably is Zwift rather than Wahoo that needs to fix the low latency issue? What do you think ?
DC Rainmaker I just got a new Kickr v5 and it’s defective straight out the box. The flywheel is untrue and rubbing the base. I’m contacting Wahoo to get a replacement 😒
I currently have a first Gen kickr which has been rinsed for about 80k km, so its started to feel really sluggish and the accuracy seems to have nosedived when I test it against my various powermeters (power is down by 20-30w compared to my 2 separate stages powermeters).. how much of a difference am i going to see upgrading to the V5 Kickr?
@@Dcrainmaker something similar happened to me last year, on a new Stages right-side power meter crank. In my case Stages (or Shimano) didn't install the crank bolts correctly or the spider wasn't tapped correctly. Every bolt was stripped out, so it was just a matter of time before the bolts gave way. It got wobbly on the way home from a ride then the small chainring came off. I'm glad I didn't crash. To their credit, Stages replaced it free of charge.
I just bought the kickr 2018... however, the only thing that really interests me is increase accuracy and no requirement for spindown. Are these actual improvements or would it be basically the same if I didn't bother doing a spindown with the 2018 before/after each ride?
According to Wahoo's site, the Kickr is not compatible with the Canyon Ultimate with rim brakes. Unfortunately that's the bike I would like to use with a new Kickr. Did you experience any issues when using your Ultimate? Are you aware if the Tacx Neo has similar issues?
Funny you ask. It's been the topic of conversation with Wahoo recently, and as if last night - I finally got the clarity I needed. In short, that limitation is for the 2019-2021 models. And mine is a 2016/2017 model. Here's more details on it, and hopefully Wahoo will be updating their page shortly: www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/08/wahoo-kickr-v5-2020-smart-trainer-in-depth-review.html#comment-3698629
Am I crazy or is your chain ring bent? When looking at it from the back while showing the Axis feature it looks like the chain ring has one side that isn't straight.
Thanks for the awesome review! Regarding the zwift errors that you're seeing during power ramp ups... how does this issue on V5 compare to what you see on V4?
@@Dcrainmaker Interesting, I know there was a firmware fix for the Core that did this. Looking at buying my first smart trainer and likely choosing between V5 and the Core! Your reviews have been very helpful, but have also made the decision pretty hard.
@@SamLGND Still figuring it out! I honestly don't think that most people need more than the Core, to be honest. But there's some extra convenience and better design from the V5, that's for sure.
@@rishabhphukan8339 what about the cores previous issues , i wouldint want to get a lemon... noise issues etc , i think id rather spend a little more for v5 since its new and seemed to have fixed its problems ,
Just picked mine up and done a couple of rides on New York. With zwift settings at MAX I have found that the resistance feels a bit wavy or grabby. This is when the gradient is not changing, feel it at 5%, 8% and up (to 17%). Anybody else experience this?
Ray, apparently the trainer self calibrates during free wheeling, does this mean calibration will continually drift during ERG mode training? Also, why is power matching a bad thing for ERG mode training. Cheers
The trainer actually constantly self-calibrates, within a 2-3 minute span. The calibration will actually reset back to the known good factory default - no matter the mode. Power matching generally isn't great because you usually see lag aspects there where a power meter and trainer try and work together and sometimes it results in weirdness.
@@Dcrainmaker Ray, took the plunge and just had my first ERG ride with the V5. The response time for 10 second intervals is phenomenal compared to my Elite RTM (Small ring front, 3rd biggest rear). The Kickr is very quiet, as was my RTM apart from the resistance beeping. Feels smoother through the pedals, and the power is much more direct, so can feel it more in my feet and legs. V5 seems to be reading 3-4% less than my Stages PM. Maybe the true power number is in the middle. Was tempted with the £150 cheaper H3, but quite a few horror stories there, so pleased I went with the V5. I like the side to side movement of the V5 vs the RTM too, I can see that helping me out on longer rides. The trainer isn't cheap, but really impressed after that 1st ERG ride. Hopefully it serves me as well long term as the RTM. Thanks for your help and advice. 👍🏿
For the wired connectivity, I’m thinking also for using the Kickr in situations like a spin gym or e-racing as you’ll have multiple Kickrs and you might have interference issues or linking annoyances. Not sure why they don’t just use Ethernet cable as it’s thicker and should prove more durable and able to do more things in the future
Yeah, this seems like a bizarre decision for them to have made. Like... why introduce the need for an adapter that people are going to have to pay for when you could have just used an ethernet cable. It's so silly. I'm guessing the next kickr circa 2022 will have this and it will be 'revolutionary'.
Well it's more than just "using an Ethernet cable." It requires an Ethernet adapter, with an onboard processor, MAC address, and other networking elements. I agree with the value of this, but I'm pointing out that there may have been constraints with size power and integration that didn't make sense given a projected low demand for that feature. To keep costs down and reliability up, they would want to reduce physical interfaces not expand them.
Hey; is there a way to avoid the bike moving forward during a hard sprint? Feels like some of my cyclist friends don’t have this problem. Is there a way to adjust the kickr axis feet so my bike doesn’t advanced into the Tv wall when I’m doing 800w for 15s? Thanks
I use a front wheel brace that has a rubber bottom and also unscrew the feet a little so they brace the trainer on the floor better. Mine doesn’t move an inch.
Yup, that's the pandemic for you. Demand has been incredibly high since last Feb. Wahoo mostly caught up over the summer and stock was at least somewhat available. And even until last week stock was spotty but you could find units. But as restrictions (and winter) increase, people head back indoors. And stock disappears again. They're shipping 2-3x over last year, but demand is way higher than that right now.
I am having issues with my new Kickr 2020. Already got the first unit replaced because of terrible humming noise/ vibrations. Now the replacement one is a lot better, but still makes audible humming noises and even worse the whole bike is vibrating every second or so. Really is tiring to feel through hands/ feet after half an hour or so. Coming from an original NEO I never had issues like that. Wahoo has not been responding for a week or so. Anybody else experiencing vibration/ noises with their new Kickr?
I am having the same problems with my kickr. But i havent got a new one or so. I raplaced Almost everything on the bike, but vibrations still there. Most on high gears
My third Kickr 2020 arrived a few days ago and I just got to test it for the first time. While it seems to be the quietest so far at warm up power, the issues are about the same while more intense training. I can instantly reproduce the worst sound/ vibration by dropping the cadence to around 60 and 150 watts and above. Overall the vibration I can feel on the bike is similar. Just the audible part differs to the other ones. No idea what to do now. Wahoo acknowledges the issues. But replacing it over and over does not fix it. I am an idiot for having sold the Neo...
I have exactly same issue since I have bought the Kickr three weeks ago. I have replaced new unit, and it is completely same vibration. I really don't know what to do...
I had that a few months ago as well as a rather inordinate amount of noise being generated by the kickr. Sent a video to wahoo and they replaced it as it was still under warranty. I'm now on my 3rd Kickr
How does this trainer compare to a legacy Elite Real Turbo Muin in terms of feel? What is the current fastest responding trainer for erg mode intervals on zwift?
@@daveb5375 Hi Dave, I made my decision and went with the Wahoo Kickr Smart. Mainly because it is quiet and can adjust mount hight and use with my 451 mini velo bike. It fits very nicely. It will be my main training station when PM2.5 arrive in near future.
