Personally I think the effectiveness if anything is underrated here. He says that in a fight you wouldn't get the chance to go to full power. I suspect in a duel this is true, but in a battle there are greater numbers and greater opportunities for someone with a flail to catch a knight while the knight is trying to kill someone else. Rarely did knights get in protracted 1V1 duels.
Everyone should appreciate his willingness to get beaten unconscious and mortally stabbed with a dagger, in the name of uncovering the reality of medieval armored fighting. Luckily he seems related to Jesus, so he has respawning abilities.
While he's correct in stating that attacking the gaps in armor is just a matter of luck, you definitely can aim this thing. I've too little experience to really know what I'd do with it in a real fight, but my primary targets would be the head and the hands. Most people used open faced helmets on foot, because breathing, so you can hit them where it hurts. If not, they can't breathe, so you can tire them out. Plate gauntlets were a rarity, because of cost/benefit ratio. Even if someone had them, repeated hits would likely jam them up and make weapon manipulation problematic. I mean, they wouldn't study this weapon if it wasn't effective against armored opponents, would they?
@@bakters no they where pretty comon, i just watched a video about the requirments of melitia in medival germany, and they where pretty comon once you whrnt dirt poor, they came before leg armour and i think even arm armour whitch supirsed me
@@giftzwerg7345 " *[plate gauntlets] were pretty common* " I'm sure I've seen period art where people in full plate were fighting barehanded. Mail mittens were very common for sure, but plate gauntlets, while an effective defense, did restrict you quite a lot, so even people who could afford them did often choose not to use them when fighting on foot. Are you sure this militia requirement was for strictly plate gauntlets, not some other sort of armored gloves? Maile or reinforced leather gloves offer very little resistance to blunt trauma.
@bakters depends where you stand. If you are in an important military location, you can expect the attackers are heavily equipped, so heavy even warhammers have hard time to kill. It is a very dangerous assumption that blunt weapon beats armoured opponent easily. It makes beating armour 'easier' not 'overwhelmingly easier'.
@@bakterssome of the weapons that show up in treatises are legitimately just there as gimmick weapons for duels. They’re weren’t always ideal, so it isn’t a great metric to go off of for whether or not it made a good weapon.
Country boy strength is a thing. A peasant may not have much fighting experience, but he does have a lifetime of hard manual labor under his belt. Give him a heavy weight to swing and he can be devastating. A fighting manual said that an opponent who is physically strong, but unskilled, was actually incredibly dangerous, as they were unpredictable. Give them an unpredictable weapon on top of that, and you can see how they could be dangerous against professionals.
Knights still have higher chance to win. So how to stack the odds to your favor? Dig ditches. The knights will think twice before storming at your position. You can maximise flails' effectiveness with the power of high ground.
@@gallowglass3764The Hussites used terrain advantage, example fort wagon. When comes to live or dead situation; you throw fair & square out of window.
An absolutely fantastic video!! Not only academic and professional, but entertaining too! I do not know how you guys make such realistic fights without dying but I am beyond impressed and appreciate that you make content better than most movies anymore
@@chengkuoklee5734 well very true lol, but he does do some great tricks in feigning death like when he jams a dagger through the gaps and cinches down on it. Looks very dangerous but no death
Like many weapons, especially those, that were mainly used by peasants, flails weren't meant to be used in one-on-one combat. They become effective in combination with outnumbering the opponent - and ideally surrounding him. The goal was to make him fall, pin him to the ground and then do, what every farmboy learns from an early age: Beat him like corn. Until he drops his weapon. And then a dagger would finish the job. Every peasant knew, that it would be insane to face a knight alone. But they also knew, that the numbers were on their side. (And - of course - like most pole weapons, the flail was also used in attempts to get the knight off the horse).
I think the big thing that you didn't emphasize is that due to the nature of armored fighting being very focused on grappling, the flail is especially useful to grab your opponent at range. You had one clip where you neutralized a bill user's weapon and struck him with the butt end. Being able to immobilize a limb is very valuable. I think if you were to spin the end and use it as part of a thrust, that might be an effective deterrent due to the threat of grabbing your opponent's weapon. Perhaps more possible with the 3 headed flail than the wooden threshing flail.
The flail is a prime example of beautiful simplicity. They are easy to make, relatively easy to use, and effective enough in combat to give you a fighting chance.
Another great video, informative and entertaining. During the armor test you mention that it would be impossible to make a full force swing to an armored opponent. I belive you are referring to in a duel. However, I imagine a during a peasant revolt a knight might end up outnumbered against many lightly armored opponents. The peasants may be able to land several full force blows to the knights head. Something I'm curious about is how often (if ever) have leather straps or buckles have failed you during your duels.
This was awesome, thanks very much! I'm a 14th C fighter & I love using different weapons but it's very uncommon in my area. So I learn so much from even just watching you fight.
Truly remarkable and rather terrifying! Beautiful work! The after fight explanations are clear and give a far greater understanding of the flexibility of plate armour and the challenges posed by different different weapon types. Stay safe gentlemen!
Wunderbar, das war ein schöner Exkurs in Sachen Flegel. Ich bin LARP-Ritter und kann vieles aus Turnier oder Schlachtreihen bestätigen. Der Schlag um den Rundschild herum, Treffer auf ungerüstete Rücken... Alles machbar, aber im Duell zwischen Plattenträgern braucht es den Dolch.
great video! i think the main advantage of the flail in a battle is in its disruptive nature. It's really good at creating openings for other attacks, and it demands a lot of the enemy's attention because it is so hard to block.
It’d be wild to go back in time and get into knights’ heads and ask why they chose certain weapons over others, since many seem less versatile when fighting against other armored combatants. For example, why choose a pole flail over a pole hammer? Why choose a cove-flange mace over a war hammer? Why choose a Kanabo over a halberd? Does it just come down to personal preference, or are there written treatises as to why a knight may want to use such and such weapon over another of equal or even greater versatility?
Definitely against full plate armor the flail has very little practical uses. But I can see how it would be devastating against the lightly armored. Considering that most wouldn't have steel gauntlets or full protection for their arms those flails with the multiple chains could shred hands and render an opponent unfit for battle in seconds. Also as you observed you're almost always guaranteed a hit with the flail and against an opened face helmet the effects would once again be devastating. In conclusion the flail seems to be a weapon not entirely to kill but to quickly render enemies of the common soldier variety too injured to fight. I love your videos and they never fail to make me think more then I already do about history.
your videos are so fuckin cool cause you actually get hit with these things and use them, it's knowledge based on real experience and thats super valuable. awesome work man. also I see good old deutschland is coming back to life slowly, those flowers are really nice haha
It is an incredibly useful weapon for if you want a not conceilable less lethal weapon but aren't fancying a poleaxe or you are a peasant without much training. Brutal sadistic weapon, I'd rather take a sword to the armpit then get repeatedly hit by a two-handed flail till I faint. You cannot use it in formation unlike traditional polearms but it is incredibly useful for uprisings, skirmishes and duels. Great weapon, though understandable why it isn't as well known as other weapons.
Der Dreschflegel ist schon ein cooles Gerät. Als Fechtwaffe zieht es sich in der deutschen Fechtszene der damaligen Zeit (ca bis 1611) einfach konsequent durch, was halt super interessant ist. Wir sehen ja die Trainingsversion dieser Flegel auch in einigen Abbildungen, die nichts mit Fechten direkt zu tun haben. Und echte Flegel wurden ja auch gerne von Stadtwachen benutzt. Einfach ein cooles Teil. Wünschte mir, mehr fiktionale Werke würden den Dreschflegel benutzen. Sparring ist jedenfalls ultra lustig mit den Dingern.
Cool that you got the same vibe I got from watching those duels as you had bieng in them. I also was like that’s not gona kill anyone, but the harresment you putting on a opponent would make it easyer to get someone to the floor and use a dagger to finish it there. I imagen fighting a flail, would be rather pain full and stressfull cause of just how hard it is to block them.
No matter East or West, war flail shares something in common: they are siege defense weapons. In West, it was used in conjunction with Hussite Fort Wagon, Castle, or behind a simple ditch. Usually when defending heavily fortified position, you can expect the attackers are heavily armed to the teeth. Even heavy pole arms also have a hard time beating an enemy who is well prepared & well expected. Here comes the war flail. It has a weired striking angle. When you are blessed with high ground, it always hit something. If you are lucky you maybe can score a fatal blow. Otherwise, you just harass your enemy all day. The moment the attacker react to your flail, it creates an opening for your pole arm buddy to exploit.
@@chengkuoklee5734 that's also the interpetation I got from them. There a bit like the daneaxe. You have people with daneaxes amongst your spear and shields. Then all of sudden a big axe comes crashing down from above, causing paniced reaction from the enemy formation which creates openings for the spears. You can't exactly ignore these weapons, but when you attempt to defend you get in a pickel aswell.
I remember when discussion of flail first pop up in certain group it started some form of apocalyptic, biblical meltdown on some people whenever a flail is mentioned to be used in any battle. As if the flail is the lies of devil or something.
Very interesting video. Many aspects and important details.. Although my favourit weapon in this armoured duel, and some other contexts,would still be, the wavel estoc. It had a heavy pommel, and turned around it be a long effektive mace, with two quillon--spikes.
Last night I was thinking of building a staff flail and was watching your videos for design reference. Then you uploaded this this morning. How strange
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Shads a great channel but he's not infallible, though I don't think he ever tried pole flails. He only memed the short ones which indeed are very uncommon and only shown used by cavalry
@dequitem yeah dude, it would be very interesting to see their effect vs that of a mace. I'm thinking we will again see the forgiveness in landing good hits like the big brother but this is of less benefit in the shorter format probably. It didn't seem like maces had a hard time only the big ones
@Dequitem I have one question, or maybe rather a theory, but I know nothing about this so I would like to hear your opinion about it. They say that flails were too hard to manage for being a real thing, and it was easy to hit yourself or get tangled in the enemy and then you would lose your weapon... But what if this was the intended use of the weapon? Because I see a lot of other videos you and other medieval weapon RU-vidrs have said that you were pretty hard to kill in plate armour and that the way to do it was to trust a dagger or something into gaps in the armour. And to do that you would probably need to get close or get your opponent on the ground to get close enough to find those gaps. What if the flail intended use was to tangle itself to an enemy knight so you could pull them out of balance and down to the ground, or at least be enough of a hindrance for them when it was tangled around their arm or leg that you could pull your dagger and finish them of, or take them, prisoner. At least during tournaments and duels. If you were covered in full plate yourself, then I guess the danger of being hit by it reflecting was not so big a deal.
Fascinating. One things that suprised me is that this isn't a weapon that needs extensive training to use effectively. I'd be interested in comparisons with the shorter flails that we often see being used single handed. How difficult is it to use of those those without hitting yourself by accident and what is the best thing to use in you rother hand (sword? shield, dagger?
Another thing to consider is that the weight of a flail head could be highly variable. Lead was often added to the heads to make them heavier while making the heads smaller, concentrating force. Making a flail specifically for damaging plate armor would be a simple Matter, but that was not their role. The two handed flail (as pointed out in the video) was used to strike around battlements by peasantry, such as the Hussite wars and the Chinese defending against mongols in sieges. The one handed war flail on the other hand, was more popular as a cavalry weapon, particularly on the Eurasian steppe (weapons like the Russian kisten)
There is a hard weight limit on melee weapons over all however You’re never gonna see a one handed weapon over 5lbs or a two handed weapon over 10lbs and even those numbers are the very extreme end of the scale for each, more commonly one handed weapons were around 1.5-3.5lbs while two handed weapons ranged from 4-8lbs The reason being anything heavier and it’s just too slow to actually use effectively There are outliers of course but those were used by particularly large people for their time and not the average soldier. Even then those barely go to 12lbs in weight.
I can see how a weapon like this would be effective in a siege defence, especially something like an escalade. You would be able to swing this weapon down at the enemy climbing up while still being largely protected by the battlements. You wouldn't have to worry about getting a good angle on the enemy, worry about accurate strikes or extending yourself over the battlements and exposing yourself to missiles. Due to that low-skill factor, and the weapons strength and swing flexibility, you just swing it downwards and keep going. Are there many mentions of flails being used as such in siege defences?
This would have been so useful when I tried to explain my peasant fighter dnd character to the other players. At least I can send it to them in retrospect
Appreciate the explanation of the damage through the armor. I always thought flails were cool and to see it really getting put to the test was great. What weapon is your preferred for armoured combat?
@dequitem i have a theory why they don't(edit:want to) have spike on flail. What if they want to recover their weapon? Something tells me spike might get trapped especially fabric or hair.
@TheLadderman in a chaotic situation like siege defense, I prefer not having my flail stuck at enemy's shield, clothing, and what not. Yes, a spike flail can cause more damage but a stuck flail cause 0 damage.
EXCELLENT. One injury I could imagine it inflicting might be a dislocation ? If a knight had an extended arm with a single handed weapon in their hand and was hit near the elbow full power I feel it could tug at the tendons somewhat ?
Nice of you to address this question that has burned in our minds for centuries. This "peasant" type war flail with long shaft and club head seems to have been the most realistic design. Apparently the really cool one - the spiked ball-and-chain "morning star" type flail - was more of a decorative piece used more as a wall-hanger than as a weapon of war.
@@off6848 I thought the whole premise was that, like he says here, the flail's not really something anybody would choose if they had much of a selection - and that the flail really was just a repurposed agricultural tool; these "wooden shaft+club" type flails were easy to make, widely used in the German peasant revolts, yet I have seen spiked ball & chain type flails as wall-hangers in castles in Germany. Presumably just because they're so cool. But that doesn't really contradict what you're saying.
@@ShiceSquad The ball and chain was likely more of a calvary weapon so for knights. The club flail is easier to make and the two handed version can have shorter chain because its a longer lever where as for a one handed flail a club end with a small chain would be less effective than a ball spiked with a longer chain. They're almost two different types of weapons completely one relies on a lever force and the other relies on generating centrifugal or centripetal force depending on the technique and goal
@@off6848 Good point, I forgot about that little "detail" of how much easier the ball and chain would be to use one-handed. And yes, they basically are two completely different types of weapons, the wooden staff/club flail apparently being much more widespread. After all, peasants were much more widespread.
Can _personally_ bear witness that a flail can knock out a fully armored combatant (that was me, wearing a sallet much like the one of your other flail fight video) with a single blow. And any follow-up blow(s) would have easily killed me in a real fight. May of 2009. Tamajon, Spain. Unchoreographed exhibition fight against my wife (both of us are reenactors, I'm also armored combatant, I was portraying the evil knight attacking the church where all the town's women had "hidden", she was the last line of defence after I curbstomped everyone else). Hit me on the top of the helmet so hard the flail head broke in half. Everyone congratulated me on how realistically I was playing dead. I was actually unconscious. Had it been a steel-covered studded flail like that of your video I would have been in a world of trouble. There's even video of it somewhere.
Очень уважаю то, чем ты занимаешься. Когды ты сказал, что взял бы на смертельный поединок длинный меч или полэкс, я представил, какого было бы сразится против тебя насмерть😰😰😰 Я бы постарался быть яростным и сделать все, на что способен... Но я вижу в видео, как ты дерёшься... Без шансов для меня😅 Я действительно уважаю тот уровень навыков и давление, которые ты показываешь в своих дуэлях. Я думаю, ты мог бы выйти победителем в бою с реальным воином той эпохи. Ты умеешь показать, какая это тяжкая борьба. Представляю это ощущение, как в твоём доспехе ищут щель, чтобы проткнуть твою тушку. Страшно представить, что когда ты получаешь ранение, ты даже не можешь его увидеть и оценить. Реально как в жестяной банке
I imagine a flail like that could latch onto a halberd or the hilt of a sword and pull the wielder forward out of position into your lines or just makes him lose his weapon. Might be a cool experiment to try.
I would love to meet you and if it's a weekend I can try to drive nearby Prague. Please write me a mail on lennarddewitz@yahoo.de, than we can discuss further details,
they really were running tanks... what the fuck. that must have been scary to see a tall good built knight in armor on the battlefield, not talking about that 500kg horse in full plate...
Du machst das absolut super! Ich mag deine Erklärungen und dann die Schnitte auf entsprechenden Kämpfe... ABER was mich echt nervt, ist, dass du jedes 'the' als ein 'thi' aussprichst... nur bei Vokalen im folgenden Wort wird aus dem typischen 'thä' ein 'thi'... das wäre noch schön, ansonsten wie gesagt: TOP!
🤔 when I see how hard you hit each other I can't imagine that you didn't get serious wounded ore hurt. At least the hits must be loud inside the armour (DING, DONG, DANG) 🤣 Was that about your comment about tinnitus? 🤔 🤣
@@dequitem I don't want to be a downer, and I appreciate everything you do for living history and historical combat, but also I don't want you to develop issues down the line from traumatic head injury. I know Germany has essentially free national health care, maybe get your head checked out every once in a while for concussions?
I observed the multi-head flail was especially effective at entanglement of your polearm, for a fighter who was good at grappling, it would prove advantageous in a duel. I wonder if a heavier head on the single, would do more damage and not slow the weapon significantly? Might give it a go this summer in my shop.
I'm assuming without the armour, that would have killed. I imagine you still get pretty beat-up sometimes. I was wondering, how do you decide between safety and effectiveness when it comes to designing and using weapons for non-lethal sparring? I imagine even with a blunted edge, something like a pole axe could still do serious damage. Then again, you're in full armour. Are you holding back your blows? It looks like you guys are going full throttle. But of course you wouldn't want to kill your partner (guilt aside, I imagine it's not easy finding a good partner).
I do wonder how this weapon fairs against mailed opponents like you might see in the late 12th- early 13th centuries. Maces and the like were fantastic against chainmail, so I wonder if the same could be said of war flails.
I was wondering after watching this and your video on the three headed flail vs billhook - if you can (for the most part) trust in your armour to absorb hits, could the billhook curve not be used to puncture the unarmoured rear of the other person’s legs? When I saw no plate there I figured, in the lead up to a grapple, it wouldn’t be too difficult to land a hit there. However I know nothing at all about any of this beyond what you and a few other channels show, and given you didn’t try and do that I’m assuming there’s a reason - would hitting armour gaps with the point be easier and safer?
I went back and checked the "twohanded spiked flail" duel video. If the opponent didn't have armour on him, you could have got him with one or two finishing blows instead of got beating down to the ground by him. Yeah, flail is useless for dueling but I would never want to face off with someone holding one!
Hallo Herr, I feel like a rondel dagger would be a great little gift for my wife (we’re odd), is there a place you recommend for buying one? As far as I’ve looked there do not seem to be many options. -Thank you!
The one in the first period images looks insane. Like even hollow that looks like it weighs a lot, not something I would want to be hit by even in armour. I wonder what the weight cap is for effectivness as a weapon vs armour penetration (even just by blunt force trauma). Is it that a flail can't, or that it can't safely be tested? Basically, is your "heavy" flail heavy enough? How much heavier could you make it without making it useless? Must say, I really like your longform content better than your shorts.
I can see how the impact of the flail can cause a momentary imbalance. I wonder if there is a technique to jerk back immediately after a strike to the back of the torso or leg (high or low) can cause further imbalance.
I always assumed the design was more about the "flail" hitting on the backside of a helmet or behind a shield, rather than bashing straight on a target.
