Was Jesus a Magician? 

Wonderful to work together on this collaboration, Andrew! Your channel has been such an inspiration for me and I'm just so thankful for your trailblazing work making religious studies accessible on this platform. Hope to hang out at the AAR/SBL this fall!

Is Genesis 1 a polytheist creation story? As opposed to Genesis 2?

It would be interesting to see your opinion on Richard Carrier, he's got some very good points about Jesus not being a real person at all.

And Yoda is the Master Thaumaturge!🙏🏼🤭

@@TheEsotericaChannel Luke Woodham repented. Have you?

I also thought of online activities when i heard that. Funny how now remotely has come to mean this more and more.

Wouldn't even need Zoom to do it really lol Energy workers do long distance healing by just thinking of the person.

it's called the iN-turn-ET~

@A Baker Of course not, I was joking. Obviously a divine being like him uses Skype /s

Don’t give ideas to the Prosperity Gospel people. Please.

💯

His stand is called Holy Spirit

Lol at people in the replies that are not in on the joke

Jojosus?

speen

I think youre putting too much thought into what was essentially generalized examples

i think it’s kind of like dc vs marvel where dc is heroes being human and marvel is humans being heroes. i also think tolkien’s soft magic system is more bible-like, as it truly does feel like gandalf is performing miracles instead of his magic being just a mechanic within the world like hp

You forget Gandalf died and was returned . . .

Harry has the magic of the heart as well as Gandalf .. both are rebellious fools full of compassion

Originally, in the Hobbit, Gandalf was your first kind of wizard. He didn't become an angelic being until Tolkien incorporated his other mythology into the tale.

Lol

"Ah, John; you're off your feckin' head!" -JC

💀❤️‍🔥

This is no ordinary mortal. This man must be a god!!!✌

@@hackman669 John the Baptist seems not to have become a follower of Jesus. Quite telling. He likely did not accept him as messiah.

You was a cashier I assume

Supervisor of monetary flow

Financial Computations Associate

Ambulatory Currency Receptacle

I'm late but a 'ritual' is what archaeologists may call an unknown/lost practice. Like 'we don't know why "this" was done a certain way'..

I agree

This Great video has made me illiterate and now i tell people i dont need to read books because youtube lies are sufficient to put in my garbage brain.

He spat on the ground and rubbed it on his eyes because it was an ancient Jewish custom to spit on the ground beside blind people to disrespect them. So to hear the spit touch the ground and believe that you'll still be healed requires enormous faith.

If that were all true it would make the scripture wrong where the pharisee said that he had a demonic spirit and Jesus called them out and told them they blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Jesus really WOULD have had an evil spirit. If Jesus was just a magician then all of our faith is in vain, there is no hope of salvation, we are all doomed.

​@@michaelszczys8316he did let Solomon use a magic ring to summon and control demons. That's a fact.

@@WestSideBarson where is that? I would like to see.

@@michaelszczys8316 The Testament of Solomon.

@@michaelszczys8316a.k.a Seal of Solomon. Give the Jewish Babylonian Talmud a reading too, more specifically Tractate Gittin 68: Demons and the Temple. Very interesting read, mentions the ring.

That's a cool anecdote.

In Europe it was the priests who were involved in magick and necromany and such. They were the educated and literate who kept up those traditions.

I am from the Yucatan Península. I have and acquantaince who is a x'men (pronounced sh-men) a mayan shaman. He is also a very devout catholic who does voluntary work for a local Franciscan monastery and attends mass every sunday. I asked him if the priest has any issue with his "pagan" side and he answered that not only he doesnt but also sometimes recommends him to people in need of "healing". Also, one of his nephews is interested in becoming a priest.

I'm born and raised in Fiji and I can surely confirm that double dipping in religion, is in fact a common practice here.

@@JustMeRosh Yeah it's pretty much the same in New Zealand. As you have like the Ratana Church which is a blend of Māori spirituality/beliefs and Christianity. I once went on a forestry program. Where they rolled out an elderly tohunga to warn us all about ghosts in the forest for like two hours. He even said that if you're Christian to say a prayer to your god, if you don't know the right Karakia to say. In the event you run into one.

Yeah... I suppose it is. *goes and edits resume*

I think I'm going to make one now.

@@MagicJesus Celsus also means: high, tall, noble, prominent, and it was a name purposely given to many kids. Some Celsuses: Aulus Cornelius Celsus (c. 25 BC - c. 50 AD), an encyclopedist best known for his medical writings Aulus Marius Celsus, a Roman senator whose career began under Nero Tiberius Julius Celsus Polemaeanus, commonly known as Celsus (ca. 45 - before ca. 120); Roman senator, consul. Ephesus Publius Juventius Celsus (AD 67- AD 130), a Roman jurist, praetor, governor, consul Tiberius Julius Candidus Marius Celsus, aka Tiberius Julius Candidus; a Roman senator who lived during the Flavian dynasty. Saint Celsus (aka Celestinus or Cellach of Armagh), 1080-1129 AD); archbishop of Armagh Celsus and Marcionilla early Christian martyrs (in the time of Diocletian); Celsus, young son of Marcionilla. Celsus, a martyr; see Nazarius and Celsus: bodies discovered by Saint Ambrose. The most famous is not a proper Celsus, but one who made their own pseudonym referring to Celsus (the first of the list): Paracelsus (above or beyond Celsus) 'Celso' is a masculine proper name in Spanish, derived from Celsus, and i bet other languages have their own descendants of Celsus Celsus as an adjective is the root of the words excel, excellent, excelence I don't know if the anty-christian Celsus existed or not, but you can't dismiss it by the name alone.

thats actually awesome

Indeed, every time I encounter a scholar attempting to define magic, I enter their definition into a big spreadsheet. Rest assured...each and every definition is different!

Is that a spreadsheet you would be willing to share? If not, I understand. It is basically asking for the CliffsNotes of a large body of work that you have done.

@@ReligionForBreakfast What about "the supernatural" in general? Thank you for your work!

It's simpler than you think, in fact, it is what Thinks You. *RorriMaesu says useaMirroR*

@@ReligionForBreakfast The way I see it, magic is that which comes from a source that could otherwise be mundane, whether that be the magician themselves or some ritual tool that is made of otherwise mundane substance. A person who sees it in a negative light would say it is subverting a mundane thing to do what it is not meant to. A person who sees it in a positive light would say that it is bringing forth a power that is meant to be there but is normally inaccessible for some reason. Miracle, on the other hand, is brought forth by something that is meant to be beyond the power of the physical world. A god, demigod, or otherwise divine being enacts miracles and that is power that they are understood to have in their most natural state. In short, Gods enact miracles because they are by nature supernatural. Wizards conduct magic because it allows a mundane thing to access the supernatural.

Salam khoobin?

So what’s the definition of sorcery in Zoroastrianism, and the bible for that matter?

@@strangerinastrangeland6865look it up bud

​@@strangerinastrangeland6865 Black magic

@@ShahanshahShahin yeah but actually is sorcery, it’s forbidden in the bible, so there has to be a definition for what it is, and like the commenter said forbidden in Zoroastrianism, Like is it just lying and deceiving and putting on a show to convince people you have power? Or is it a practice that actually has results?

Check out Useful Charts - excellent scholarly vids on religion

He could have been just blind in one eye I'm didn't want to or you know have very dim vision.

🤣🤣🤣

Or you know , he’s God and decides to use his creation in order to enact his miracles

@@anchorthesun3438 /facepalm

Well I would like to see a video from RFB about religion in DnD.

Magic isnt real

“The Church has no reason to seek out or persecute any witches because their powers do not exist” - St Augustine

You're words are too big and your sentences hurt my brain

People forget that the line between "folk medicine", magic, and allopathic medicine is not set in stone. They change over time. Aggressive scepticism towards "alternative" treatments is misguided and often a cover for dismissing Indigenous medicine. Not to rehash a different video, but the example of "meditation" is pretty instructive - first it was disbelieved and appropriated for aesthetics, but now that it's been stripped of it's Asian cultural context, it's been accepted into allopathic medicines.

@@theMoporter Evidence based medicine doesn't really care about where an idea originated. There are many drugs where the compound was isolated from a source that was looked into because it was used in traditional herbalism. artemisinin quinine willow ephedra poppy are just a few plants that have drugs made from them that were once used in herbal medicine. Most plants that have medicinal properties also have chemicals in them that cause bad side effects and depending on how they were grown and the specific plant will have wildly different amounts of active ingredients, so it makes sense to figure out what the chemical in the plant that is the active ingredient so you can have fewer side effects and be more sure of the dose you are actually getting. There were variolation ceremonies for smallpox in India, and when a safer method of protection from smallpox arrived - vaccination - sometimes ceremonial practices were observed in some regions so that people wouldn't feel they were losing their traditions when changing to a safer medical procedure. All of the contexts and traditions of any medical practice aren't actually part of what makes anything work, they are just acting as a placebo. If you want to do all that ok, go ahead, but there is no reason to do that from a medical perspective. I sometimes wonder if we should invent a new ceremony for vaccination that appeals to the people who like the aesthetics of the cultures that are antivax, New-Age or Chistian or any other group that is antivax. There is almost nothing that is more similar to homeopathy than vaccination, a tiny tiny amount of a harmful thing is put into your body that boosts your bodies natural immune system is ironically so in line with it. If we dressed it up as a ceremony maybe some people would get a vaccine that wouldn't otherwise.

Tidbit... Did you know "Jesus" is suffering from a toothache in the entire bible. If you notice, he is the light and the path... The word and Son of God. An open mouth gets fed!(Light and the way)...Cleansings is close to Godliness(The Son Of God). If you go backwards, you'll see that "God"; a father before Jesus, does not seem to know the importance of washing out the mouth after eating.. but The Child learns to do so. In those days tooth decay and cavities were a great problem..and the solution was worst. So Jesus spoke and all was good... For he had the "Good" word and he was "Pure". Another: did you know ;medically, a person's diet is what makes the difference in us ALL. Calcium and protein usually means your northern and are Anglo-Saxon....high sugar (starch and unrefined sugars) means your closer to the equator... Even down to having Tea or Coffee affects your entire flora/fauna and in turn you are as unique as an ecosystem and require special attention within your ecosystem.. meaning , You Could Be Your Own Medicine!

@Buddy "...these things will be back..." Nope, spirituality has always played second fiddle to materialism. Been that way since Ugh, the cave man, knapped the first handheld chopper from a flint cobble. Humans seek to materially alter the world around them for practical and mundane reasons. Drawing pictures on walls deep in caves was, at best, a sideline activity

They absolutely have videos 'about magic' in that they point out how they are all stories created by people who either didn't understand the world or were actively trying to convince you of something.

It'll be such a plot twist if we learn that he's a raging evangelical all along

unbiased would be acknowledging that its all utter nonsense and people like Jesus never existed pretty obviously.

To add, wizard etymologically just means 'wise one' yet wisdom can cover all knowledge and the use of it

is-star-i (?) yes, [I] is [R]eal refer to: pinned post comment section: my post was prior to watching cause: I understand you! lol ✌ in-inter: net!

Yes if I remember correctly he's a spirit of good who can appear how he wants but prefers that form. Like the other wizards.

try cs lewis

Jeezuz, you know you're quoting fiction to debate fiction.

Explain more pls

@@FollowerOfTheLight2782 oooo Ooooo Pp O

There is no such thing as unbiased history.

Jesus is alpha but Star Wars is soy af

describing things as 'alpha' and 'soy' is 'soy af', to use fragile masculinity terms.

@@Orrphoizagree😂

Except it was. Moses too fought the Magic of Egyptian Priests with his own Magic granted by God.

Thanks to the placebo effect, I'm sure it did help in a lot of cases!

Alchemy also advanced science greatly as repeatability, note taking and method analysis were valued.

They basically went with the old system of writing stuff down. And the same mix of history and mythology also is common in old literature. There wasn't much difference between Gigamesh, who was two thirds god, riding to the edge of the world to find immortality and Paris fighting at Troy for the most beautiful woman on earth or the Imperium Romanum doing a census in the client state of Judea. But not all of these stories have equal amounts of history.

Because modern science works so well right? Gotta tow the line, the consensus, the cancelling of common sense in lieu of political correctness. Remember, there are 52+ genders, men can become women, IQ is racist, and the COVID vaxx is safe and effective.

Feels like it could have a good and bad connotation or attitude towards the word. Same as it has today in some instances... interesting.

I love it, just one correction, the Magi were not Persian, they were very African. The tale of the three wise men being from India and Persia is an Armenian retelling of the story.

​@@Traewing Source? The Gospels don't specifically say that the wise men came from Persia-or even that there were three of them-but it does call them “magi from the East”.

​@@MADMACHlNEand considering the Zoroastrian origin of the term and the Greek trope of eastern miracle-workers it's safe to assumed they were implied to be Persian if anything

Mere fact that now we have more advanced technology does not mean that people are more wise. I don't think it is more difficult to fool people than it was 2000 years ago...

Yeah, I saw that episode of Family Guy. 🤡

His most complicated trick to perform was the reviving, since he revived and still had some of his wounds and his followers touched his wounds to believe

Could u image how easy it was to manipulate people then esp if u had a lot of time to think and come up with things. Or how many times these story have been rewritten. Almost impossible to know the real truth of those times.

@blakejamesiam1410 the bible today is if I can remember 99.3% the same as the 2000 year old ones but then again their are words in Hebrew that can't be translated into English properly

@Isolated Pixels where did it go? I didn't feel moving...

I know it is claimed that ancient and modern Greek are remarkably by similar for the number of centuries that have passed. But surely ancient vocabulary and pronunciation are exactly what a modern Greek speaker would expect to find more challenging about the ancient language.

​@@IDreamOfLogic oh dear. This person doesn't realize modern Greece exists. Actually, you could argue that the modern nation state of Greece is the first time Greece appeared in the world, since anfient Greece was not one political entity but several.

Is it odd for you to learn ? You must be a genius Share your knowledge

@@joeschmoe24-7 you are mean for no reason. Does it make you feel good? It was odd that I learned something about the language I speak since birth. I did not expect that, on a channel about religions.

Of course religion can be analyzed lol

@@NinaR478 My point is that very few people can do it from an objective, rational stand-point. Most people that talk about a religion are doing so because they're trying to sell you an idea. Religion for Breakfast does it to provide an accurate summary of what we factually know about them.

@J Lund A connecting principle , linked to the invisible? Almost imperceptible? Something inexpressible! Science insusceptible, logic so inflexible. But acausally connectible.

@@JakobNoone Is that a line from Mary Poppins?

@@coryfehr1070 'Synchronicity' by The Police. :)

What's the other channel?

@@curiodyssey3867 esoterica

A Cleric dude. 😉 With Thaumaturgy, healing touch, remove curse etc. What if his background was charlatan...rather than the usual acolyte?

If jesus was fake. The blind man would have told everyone. If Jesus didnt walk on water, he wouldn't have 2 billion followers. To think he stays up at night setting up magic tricks for the next day just to die in the end is illogical. Besides, they couldn't bring any charges against him during trial and surely being a charlatan was not one of them....

​@@shannadaul6438nah, his background was guild artisan, he was a carpenter after all.

@@Sharkakaka The guy was multiclassing...

And show me a,magician that can turn off the sun for 3 hours world wide when he was on the cross ,as Amos prophesied I will make the sun go down at noon. And thers are historian that recorded it .

Nah 😊

That question baffles me as well. Religion is so odd to me 😂 But it’s interesting nonetheless.

Mage: The Awakening

Just because someone says its a simple trick doesnt mean it doesnt have demonic familiar spirits behind it or them. Not saying he used them knowingly or unknowingly but demonic forces have been used behind a majority of majic. And secondly Jesus was not Jesus so by name only to it as a magician is negated right there. Secondly... not sure which one but a magician came to purchase and learn the miracles inwhich was denied. Secondly Yeshua aka Jesus never went away from Torah inwhich called magic evil and a sin... so this guys analogy is far from the truth.

@@semperfi-1918 Lol @ the torah calling magic a sin. Ever heard of the cabbala?

@@theodorejenkins6066 cabala is not based on Torah but other writtings. Should do some homework on it. Show me where Torah says its ok to do magic?

@@theodorejenkins6066 Deuteronomy 18:9-12 "When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you."

@@theodorejenkins6066 Kabbala appeared in the 12th century, and it is completely heretical to Judaism and Christianity. It belongs to a few sects, and (not suprisingly) popular in Hollywood.

Bro is super smug

Dont be afraid of asking questions, stranger. It helps critical thought immensely. Just question stuff more.

Check out Darren Brown’s channel for a contemporary practitioner.

What people dont realize is God gambles with humans and their lives as well as their futures. Including forcefully attempting against people for his own reasons. Illusion is a choice but so is freewill.

Most humans still place meaning on random occurrences and create reasons or things to explain the unknown.

The great thing about faith is that anything is true if you believe it.

I have to go home and feed my unicorn now if you’ll excuse me.

I was not expecting a vampire the masquerade fan

I know that there were pagan critics that called out that Jesus was working _magic_ , I don't remember how that was supposed to go, if he was commanding evil spirits/demons (Luke addresses this criticism) or by some other way. The point is that those pagans at least pretty often didn't deny that Jesus made "miracles", what they argued was that those "miracles" came from the creator god. And of course they did, if they didn't they would basically be Christians. Although I remember perfectly well that Porphyry called out the accuracy of the accounts by the fact that in Mark they called the lake of Galilee a " stormy sea" while it's just a lake. I haven't read that much, but I wonder if that lead him to believe that maybe Jesus didn't make any magic at all.

Reply to me so I can find this comment later please.

@@didack1419 I didn't think of the "stormy sea" in relation to the lake until you brought it up. To me there's so much symbolic, esoteric language in the Bible where I first believe something to be analogous before I take it to be literal. You now also have a reply lol

@@stylicho thanks Yeah, I know it's meant to have deeper meaning, I've read that some consider it a representation of God calming the waters of Chaos and stuff. Of course a pagan wouldn't get it, and to be fair, at the end it's gonna be misleading, and people can notice it.

@@didack1419 If Jesus commands demons out of people and speaks to demons that no one but Solomon, How is Jesus not a magician? Christians are just hypocrites that say whatever they do is correct and the rest of the world is wrong. It’s pretty odd when you look at Christianity for what it is and not what it’s believers tell you.

Could it be just good propaganda?

If Christianity was propraganda it wouldn’t be so confuse and complicated. Every thing is complex in Christianity from who God is to how we are supposed to live our lives.

good marketing can do everything@@newgamingcompany7998

​@@icarojose6316 how you live you life? nah. Jesus never told his disciples that. So why should you also? The only thing Jesus said was to be repentent and forgiving. You can live your life however you want to. Its basically common sense. But alot of people will forget Jesus teachings. This is why Jesus had disciples. Other than that Jesus left no books in his name. He knew his life is enough for everyone else's sin. And he left the world ambigious to their own accord. His teachings should be ample. His praise unnecessary. And his gift everlasting.

@@zlonewolf Jesus told how we should live our lives, just read the Bible. For you to repent of your sins, you need to know what they are, and jesus told us. Nobody talked about the hell as Jesus, he was warning us about what would happen to us if we dont repent of the sinful lifestyle we were living. PS: Jesus confirmed the old testament and promised us the new testament. The new testament is his life + the teaching of his disciples and the story of the begining of the church.

For those that want real Bible Godly witchcraft read Leviticus 14:48-53 Anti- Mold Potion: You'll need 2 birds, fresh water, a knife, mint, herbs, red string and something to splatter bird blood with.

My 1.25 cent for OP Qs based on lots of stuff- Ancient Israel was always in competition with other gods since Genesis. Eg the light on fire tree branches drenched in water competition. N.T. authors may have modernised it to fit with Greek trends just as OT did with the surrounding cultures. They are just a small nation amongst empire sized ones. culture works from greater to the smaller, not the other way around, as in the Bible. Psychologically, ancient Israel writers possibly over exaggerate and compensate, expressing themselves to a fantasy of escapism and guidance. Which nearly all ancient writers do. Earth was a fantasy world to them. Mystery and wonder. As such so too are their stories.

It's a miracle if it's your religion. It's magic if it's someone else's

@@CleverNameTBD Right?

The jewish mystics / priests seem to have suffered from criticism and inferiority complexes for a long time, compare Moses and Aaron competing with the egyptian priests and magicians or ... i forgot which prophet it was that had the "miracle off" with the wet altar but the scene is pretty unforgettable.

Haha, I get that a lot. The secular study of religion is so rare on YT, that people are surprised when they stumble upon videos from that perspective.

you must be new here lol

This channel is legit bro

My family and I have been enjoying this channel a lot. Growing up in a religion but never really learning its history is strange and tragic. That's our family though.

“religious trauma” is itself a cope

Woah you really witnessed an exorcism?

Mental health is amazing, isn't it?

what witnessed was the traumatizing and probably torture of another person. the world is a worse place because of those toxic delusions.

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 fr

​@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 you need a exorcism session too?