Despite the priesthood and temple restriction, there were still people of African descent who read the Book of Mormon and gained a testimony if its truth, and asked to be baptized. I taught such a man in Colorado Springs in 1974. Charles was a sergeant in the Army stationed there at Fort Carson. During a parachute jump his chute malfunctioned and he had a very fast conversation with God. Miraculously, he survived, and was able to walk capably within six months. He began fulfilling his promise to God to seek out a church where he could worship. He told me he visited many churches in the city, which is a center of Evangelical ministries nationally, but the first church where he felt welcomed was ours. He was taught by the missionaries, and interviewed by our bishop who duscussed the priesthood issue with him, but he was firm in his conviction to be baptized. I was in Salt Lake at the Church Archives the day of the announcement in June 1978. I heard from a friend that Charles was living in Atlanta and had been ordained to the priesthood.
I grew up in the mid 1950s in Salt Lake around 9th South and 3rd East. We attended the South Second Ward that met in an old chapel.on 5th East with a large stain glass window of the First Vision at the rear of the chapel. My Dad was Sunday School president. There were several.black members in our ward. My Dad said someone had criticized him for calling black members as Sunday School teachers. He responded that the black members were reliable and could be counted on to preoare and teach their lessons, unlike some other members-- specifically, the man who complained. I think my Dad's years in the racially integrated Air Force helped him learn to respect people of all backgrounds, including the Japanese Americans who he went to church with in Japan, and the black musicians that he so admired, since he was a musician in the 5th Air Force Band. When he was based in Washington, DC, he was able to fly to New York City and got to see many famous black jazz musicians at clubs in Harlem.
Remember that, perhaps BECAUSE of the priesthood restriction, black members HAD to worship with other members. We never had racially segregated congregations, the way many Southern Baptists did right into the 1980s. They sat with us, sang with us, took the Sacrament with us, and spoke in church meetings to us. Unlike some churches, in our church you don't need to be a minister to preach a sermon or teach Sunday School or be a Sunday School class president, or pray in any church meeting, or bear your testimony on Fast Sunday. The fact is that, aside from specifically African American denominations like the African Methodist Episcopals, it was only a minority of black men who were ordained as ministers in most churches. And other Christians have no concept of temple ordinances. Blacks could be baptized for the dead.
Wow! That's an interesting take on the matter. Of course, revelation could have been used to stop the ban in the first place, and then to keep the congregations from segregating too. I guess the Lord has a way of making lemonade from even the sourest lemon.
Spencer W. Kimball is my favorite Prophet. I loved to hear him talk. Even after his throat surgery. He was so humble and full of love with a great sense of humor. A truly great man!
Excellent discussion! I am very grateful to you for putting this together. Your approach is faithful balanced, and fair. However, Triple layered “memory slips” is a terribly weak explanation of how we moved from no policy, to policy, to doctrine. Both the restrictions and the reason for the restrictions were taught as doctrine by apostles and members of the First Presidency. It is neither fair nor accurate to look back and say that “doctrine” meant policy. It meant DOCTRINE. Would any of us, at the time the statements were made, have questioned the doctrine? And could we have done so openly with impunity? I don’t think that the discussion you have had on these issues could have been had with impunity before the Church published the Gospel Topics essay on race and the priesthood, and certainly not before 1978. We had to wait for the implied admission of error from the Church before we could freely consider and discuss the errors. Thank heavens that the outside world pressured the Brethren and that they were eventually compelled to ask God what He thought. My conclusion at this point in the discussion is that the Brethren know much less about God’s will than we generally think they do and sometimes less than they think they do. My second conclusion is that we all need to seek the will of the Lord in all that we do. And I believe that even if the apostles “see through a glass darkly” just like the rest of God’s children, the apostles know the will of the Lord better than any other group of persons on the earth. My third conclusion is that we need to stay in the boat, even when our leaders lead us down paths that prove to be incorrect. The apostles certainly have the Priesthood keys necessary to administer the saving ordinances and to receive revelation for the Church and for the world. We must at all costs stay in the Church and do all we can to build up the Kingdom of God and further His work of saving souls on both sides of the veil. It is in the Church, not out of the Church, that we are in the best place to learn and follow His will. Had the apostles not come to the position of unitedly asking in the temple we’d still be suffering under their false teachings. The lesson is that it is unitedly drawing nearer to God that we will prepare to receive further light and knowledge and eventually the Lord Himself. Thanks again for all the work you have done to share this with us.
Seeing the church progress and In Africa despite the priesthood ban. It reminds me of Joseph Smiths quote, “The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage". The statement IMO is for all.
Looking at the contention within the Quorum of the 12. It appears that the brethren weren't waiting on the Lord for the revelation. But rather the Lord was waiting on thw hearts of HIS servants.
AND...I believe the Lord was waiting for society in general to come around to the idea of equality among the races. Imagine what hurdles the Church would have had to jump through to bypass the Jim Crow laws in the south and that's just in this country. Apartheid wasn't reversed in South Africa until the 1990's! As usual, the Lord's timing was perfect!
I still have not heard a good solid explanation for this. The pretzel twisting and the rabbit holes one has to go down to accept these theories like "memory slips" is embarrassing. I think we were better off when we said, we don't know. It is something we simply do not have an answer for. And the modern practice of throwing our forebearers under bus is despicable. It may come to pass that the Lord will one day say that not giving the priesthood and temple to blacks was for some reason none have conceived yet. And let us all not forget, blacks are Heavenly Father's children too. And he knows well what we all need. It may very well be that it was not the blacks that weren't ready, but the rest of us.
Sure we have an answer, imperfect and moronic mortals who refused to stand up for Gods truth and fullness. Joseph Smith did not stand for this and never even thought to ban those of the black community. Was there racism involved? I wouldn’t doubt it, but God works with imperfect mortals and when those imperfect mortals finally humbled themselves and finally allowed God to rule, that is when this profanity changed. Also, I have thought that back in those days, with racism and the civil war running rampant, and the Church being heavily persecuted even unto death, perhaps the Lord did not want to add more trouble to the mix and had this policy occur to allow things to “cool” down. (Just a thought I had when I pondered a lot on this subject). Either way, we do not do this nonsense anymore, therefore we should rejoice in the Lord and thank Him for opening our pathetic eyes.
I think that's what they are saying. I don't think they're throwing anyone under the bus. I see this as them reporting what is there in the historical records of our church. I don't think we need to get upset about it. It's past, and many of us still joined the church despite knowing some of these things. I'm grateful for this open and honest discussion. Let's not bury our heads in the sand. All is well.
@@phyllisaycock1880 A lot of what I said was general for the conversation in all circles and not directed at this video. My issue with this video are the sloppy conclusions and assumptions. We do so much these days to explain this away. But the fact is, we don't know. It very well could have been God working. But because everything is racist today, we feel the need to come up with explanations. But it makes us look dumb. I would NEVER use these explanations.
Best explanation I have heard is from Elder Uchtdorf in General Conference: "even leaders make mistakes". There may have simply been reluctance by the leaders to question the decision of a previous prophet - possibly perceiving that it would invite people to question their changes/revelations.
Thank you so much 😊. I feel to say here, as now I am an older member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and a great grandmother 79 in November on the 5th. I was born at the end of WW2. The Church was 15 years past it's 100th birthday. The Civil War was fought in 1866 - around the time. My Father was born in 1908 (Mother in 1914). Dad remembered meeting people who live during the Civil War. History has been important to me in my life. I had always been taught that I had come to earth right in the middle of things that were all really happening and that the things that had happened before I was born would greatly effect my life. The problems that African Americans have go way back. Heaven only knows how far and why. They didn't start in America or in the Church. Their problems have been deep and ugly. Some people have felt that the way they were treated was wrong and have tried to understand what to do about the unbelievably things that were happening to them. While others were at least pretty sure they deserved it because of different reasons. In my home for example it was Scriptural and Church based. Many remembered in their resent past the ideas of a - well basically some of the reason for the 2nd WW. Truth is SO important. And change is line upon line. Actually I am amazed and total Greatful for the total unity and excetance of this blessing - it was just time !😊❤
As my Father tought my, as a child, my last name is spelled Keiser - not Kaiser. My Grandparents were both born in Switzerland 🇨🇭 ❤️ 😊. In Switzerland a Keiser is a Wheelright. ❤😊 I was born in 1945 and had 2 older brothers and would have in time 3 younger sisters. And the way they were brought up would be somewhat different. ❤😊
In this life, we all have agency, and despite what Wilford Woodruf stated (God will not allow the prophet to lead the church astray) we learned from President Nelson that these mistakes can happen (name of the church for example). The sad reality is that, in this situation, many of the "great and spacious building" got to the point of seeing racism for the evil that it is faster than prophets, seers and revelators. I feel sad for members who raised concerns in the 1960's and 196's and were ex communicated. Grateful it was changed in 1978, wish it had been accompanied by a repentant apology, sad that at the Be One event (wonderful music and celebration) President Oaks would throw the members under the bus (once revelation came, church moved immediately to authorize priesthood ordinations and temple recommends - while some members did not respond that quickly) conveniently forgetting the decades the church leaders took debating this topic and that much of the challenge for some of the members was due to leaders previous statements. Grateful a loving Savior will be our judge....
Why? Do you have a testimony of the Book of Mormon? I mean, how did you get through the terrible stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon and suddenly have a problem with this? Did you ever consider that God's got it under control? Black people are his too. Like I posted earlier, they best answer to this all is that we don't know what happened. These videos are full of conjecture and speculation, but we really don't know. But all will be right in the end and if Brigham Young wasn't a racist and God is not a racist then perhaps there is a great plan to it all.
Do not believe in the arm of flesh, but believe in Jesus Christ only. God works with imperfect people… I personally believe there was a purpose behind why this happened, but I also believe it was selfish, imperfect mortals who allowed it to last for so long. I take comfort in knowing that Joseph Smith, when the Church was restored, did not deny any Africans the Lords Priesthood and he had great respect for them. It wasn’t until Brigham Young that this “doctrine” came about.
Don't let something like this shake your faith to its foundations. God is merciful, and so should we be to those who have gone before us. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. That right belongs only to the Lord. Mankind will continue to mess up, but God still lets us do His work. Let us all press on. Life is good!❤
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. - Brigham Young, March 8, 1863 Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, Discourse 25
The Journal of Discourses is not where we get church policy. On the church website it cautions using it as such. The things recorded there are reports of sermons, not word for word accurately reported.
Joseph Smith himself made this statement confirming the true church doctrine which was clearly taught in the books of Sbraham snd Moses: "The curse is not yet taken off the dons of Canasn, neither eill it be until it is affected by as great a piwer as caused it to come." Now, will you still harden your spostate hearts against the truth thst God has clearly revealed snd continue to lie?!?!?!?
