Was There a Secret Traitor? - Red Dead Redemption 2 

This video idea came courtesy of Filbee gaming, subscribe to his channel here: www.youtube.com/@FilbeeGaming

If Abigail had been the rat, I just don't see Milton passing up the opportunity to throw her under the bus in that moment, and laugh at the fact that Arthur came to rescue her

its obviously gavin, his disappearing abilities are well suited for spying jobs.

I've just noticed that in the character art portrait for Micah, he's holding his two revolvers up and crossing his arms. He is literally double-crossing

One point I'd like to mention is the fact that Arthur's bounty is worth $5000 dollars in chapter 2. Since the Pinkertons say that they want Dutch over Arthur, and that Dutch is obviously a more valuable target, this should mean that the bounty on Dutch's head must be more than $5000. In the same chapter however, as shown in this video, the wanted poster found at Micah's camp is worth only $1000, meaning this must be an old wanted poster for Dutch. Seems a little suspicious that Micah would have a wanted poster of Dutch which is clearly from an earlier time when the bounty on his head was much less. Obviously he could have found an old wanted poster somewhere, but why would this be left in the game? Maybe Micah had been holding on to this for a while, hinting that maybe he had been working against the gang for much longer than we think.

I think Hosea might have sacrificed himself to get Abigail out of the situation.

I never even thought about how Micah yells Arthur’s name in strawberry so much.

It's tragic that Molly died for literally nothing and did not even get a proper burial. And also the fact that the Pinkertons tried to squeeze information from her but still said nothing proves that she was always loyal to Dutch even after he treated her like a pet he no longer wanted. :(

15:39 Pearson smiled at a picture of the gang he hanged in his store in the epilogue. The guy clearly loved them.

There is a wanted poster clipping for Dutch that can be found in Micah's campsite near Strawberry. Micah's MO was to infiltrate a gang, convince the leader to perform crimes that could raise the price on his head as a result, then either inform the police about the upcoming the robbery, or turn him in after kicking the rest of the gang out. This seems to be the case when he went and murdered a couple from a previous gang he worked with in the jailbreak, didn't want Arthur to know.

I think Molly just wanted to hurt Dutch, as the chapters go on, he neglects her a lot and in her eyes that’s a betrayal. So either she did tell the Pinkertons, or she said that she did just to try and mess with him.. it’s not an uncommon tactic for people who are hurt in relationships… ehhh that’s just my opinion though.

I’m pretty sure Abigail is asking “what’s wrong?” After Arthur comes back from fishing because she can see his face is different. Ya know body language cues, especially considering they’ve known each other for a while.

I think Agent Milton was far more honorable than you give him credit for. He offered Arthur his freedom in exchange for Dutch when he could have simply ambushed and arrested Arthur and tortured the information out of him or just killed him, he discovered the gang’s location in chapter three and instead of swooping down with his army of agents and slaughtering everyone he offers them amnesty in exchange for Dutch alone. These are vicious killers responsible for the deaths of dozens if not hundreds of people yet Milton gave them a chance (two in Arthur’s case) and only actually tries to kill them after they refused him and killed many more people. His actions in later chapters may have been brutal but the Van Der Linde gang really did necessitate it.

The one sticking point that always gets me when we start to theorise about whether or not anyone else other than Micah is the rat is that Milton was convinced Arthur was going to die by that point, I think it's much more likely he would want Arthur to die in that moment knowing who the rat was but wasn't in a position to do anything about it, rather than arbitrarily tell him a lie. (Obviously he made a mistake with assuming Arthur wasn't going to be able to do anything in that moment). Not to mention he probably didn't expect Abigail to break free either.

I have a hard time believing that Abigail was the traitor from the beginning. As much as I find the way you laid down the theory very interesting, by sticking around in camp and watching the interactions its clear that Abigail cares for the rest of the gang. Even though her loyalties lie with Jack and John, I don't think she'd willingly set the law on people she lived with and confided in regularly around camp. As a whole, I definitely think theres a stronger case for the "traitor" to be Dutch himself, with the way he constantly underestimates the law around them and always aims for the largest scales, most dramatic and risky jobs ever, not to mention largely overestimating how low profile they are at any given time. He thinks there's a traitor because he can't admit to himself or to others that any of his actions were a mistake.

I've played through the game 3x at this point, and while the idea of another informant is fun, it's never really held much water for me--especially the Abigail theory. For myself, I've always felt like a lot of the gangs misfortune simply came from time catching up to them. Police getting better, cities getting larger, and the gang themselves (outside of Arthur) not having enough self-awareness to realize that outsmarting the system is beyond their methods at this point. Unable to give up the life, the power, the supposed freedom, Dutch keeps thinking he's one step ahead when he's really 10 steps behind. You've got a gang of outlaws, half of them sloppy drunks who rarely had a plan beyond shooting their way out. The trail was there for anyone who wanted to find it, as shown in the credits. Bill, Uncle, Micah, Strauss, Davey, Mac, Sean, all sloppy gunslingers leaving a trail of destruction and carnage everywhere they go. It was only a matter of time.

Hosea spends much of his camp interactions trying to convince various gang members (nearly all of them, from what I’ve seen) that they should consider life outside of the gang. If the theory that he is ill and at the end of his life is correct, then I would imagine that knowledge would spur him to right whatever wrongs he could, not unlike Arthur. I see a lot of parallels between the two characters, actually. They both were fully committed to the gang, and Dutch’s ideals, until it became undeniably clear that Dutch himself wasn’t prioritizing the gang, or even his own ideals. All of this to say, I don’t think Hosea was a ‘rat’, per se, but I would argue he was a large part of the unraveling of the group-if only for their own good.

The wanted poster in Micah's camp just confirms it for me: even if it was nothing more than a Plan B, Micah was always toying with the idea on turning Dutch in for his own amnesty, he was just hoping to score the Blackwater money first (as evidenced at Horseshoe Overlook by Micah asking Dutch to tell him the location of the stash so he could go "retrieve it").

People forget that Milton is incredibly intelligent and calculating, and that he is speaking not just in front of Arthur, but in front of Abigail who would leave and tell the group, even if Arthur died. That would split the group. Honestly, I think there is no rat. Just a group torn apart by paranoia and stress, trying to live a life that isn't possible with the changing times.

I remember Micah claiming there was a rat *during* one of the heists that went wrong. Right after Hosea is shot during the Saint Denis heist and the gang is running across the rooftops, Micah says there is a rat, and I believe even during the Rhodes heist shootout he says “someone talked!” I think it’s pretty obvious he is trying to steer the attention away from himself, which means he was the rat even before the gang fled to Guarma.

My bets are on Jack. I noticed he never did anything around the camp and was never around when shit went down

It's Pearson. He got tired of arthur calling him a fat walrus who should of stayed at sea everyday

This is why I love this story, I believe rockstar purposefully left the story open ended, to let people come up with their own conclusions. Everything from the rats, to dutch and his head injury, there is no right answer to what happens. They give all the pieces to the puzzle, and they all fit, yet they don't. It's perfect.

Upon replaying the game, I have found a few moments that could point to Micah being the rat since the beginning. There are plenty of moments even before Guarma where Micah both says and does very questionable things that may not simply be his short temper and hot-headedness. Way back in chapter 2, In the mission “An American Pastoral Scene,” Arthur asks Micah how he ended up so far west of Horseshoe Overlook while scouting with Lenny. Micah replies with the vague answer “You know how it is, a few loose ends. Drink here, drink there.” When Arthur asks him “What loose ends?” Micah replies very evasively, “Nothing that concerns you.” And while this may just be Micah not wanting to explain himself to Arthur, it very well could be that these “loose ends” are Micah giving hints to the law about where the gang is hiding out. It could also explain how Milton was able to find Arthur so easily while he was fishing with Jack, despite not knowing exactly where the gang is camped up in, as Micah himself hadn’t seen the camp yet either. On top of that, at the end of chapter two, in the mission “A Strange Kindness,” the gang flees Horseshoe Overlook and begins searching for a new camp. Micah suggests they hold up in Dewberry Creek, but upon arriving, Charles notes that “It seems very open,” to which Arthur agrees, adding “Yeah, it does. Ain’t sure it’d be best in the rain, neither.” Obviously, with the gang wanting to lie low and out of the open, it would make no sense for Micah to recommend they stay somewhere so easy to find. Finally, in the mission “Blessed Are the Peacemakers,” Micah informs Arthur and Dutch about a parlay Colm O’Driscoll wants to make with Dutch. Despite this being an obvious setup, Micah seems quite insistent upon going along with it. His reasoning for putting Arthur and Dutch’s heads on the line is that he “cares too much.” However, this “parlay” leads to Arthur’s capture and the O’Driscolls planning to set the law on Dutch when he inevitably came to rescue Arthur. Whether Micah knew this was a plan involving the law isn’t guaranteed, but Micah’s insistence is suspicious. These points, along with the fact that the Pinkertons were able to find out about the Saint Denis bank robbery, make me believe that it is very possible that Micah was the true rat from the beginning. As for Milton saying Micah was picked up AFTER Guarma, I also believe that could be true. I think that maybe Micah wasn’t outright telling the Pinkertons information, but rather, he was leaving little breadcrumbs for them to find the gang and it was only after Guarma that the Pinkertons officially picked him up and used him as an informant.

While im not convinced abigail would rat out the gang due to her actually liking some of the gang members e.g. hosea and arthur, I love the idea of her having her own 'redemption' moment by killing milton after her 'mistake' of ratting out the gang

Just realized something about Micah. When he and Arthur rob that stage coach that was supposed to be going to strawberry they get jumped by o’driscols on a route that they would have taken to get back to camp. Not a route that the stage would have been on towards strawberry. Micah even says that the o’driscols have been robbing the wagon on the regular. It’s weird that the o’driscols would have changed their ambush spot to a place that they would not have found the wagon on. Maybe Micah had a deal with the o’driscols to try to kill Arthur or another gang member while they were taking it back to camp.

I got the feeling that Micah could have ratted the gang out earlier to one of the sheriff's which may not have passed it along to the Pinkertons. Micah seemed reckless but always seemed to push Dutch into fighting. If anyone knows Dutch, they know he will usually be the first into battle, so maybe he was hoping Dutch would get arrested or killed and then he could take everything for himself or take over the group

The case for Abigail is pretty convincing, but only after Jack was kidnapped. I cannot for a second believe she would set up that meeting with the Pinkertons on the fishing trip. If her goal is protecting Jack, this would be sending him directly in the harm's way, I don't think any mother would ever send her child in the middle of two opposing factions in hope they won't killed each other when the child is there. That seems incredibly reckless.

Abigail - escaped Saint Denise while Hosea got caught - John was held prisoner, not hanged like they would have. Probably to keep her loyalty like they did John in RDR1 - asks Arthur to take Jack fishing where Ross and Milton find him The idea of Abigail selling out the gang to try and keep Jack safe is a great twist I think. Explains how the Pinkerton's were on their tails immediately after Blackwater. The idea they found John became of her is poetic AF too

Eh, I just think that the massive amounts of murder from all their crimes was enough to draw the law like mosquito to mammals. No need for a second traitor. Plus Molly was just coming off the end of being drunk when she confessed. So I don't think she knew what she was saying.

The other thing with Dutch that still bothers me is he already knew who Milton and Ross were when Arthur goes to tell him about them after fishing with Jack. He tells Arthur Ross' name when Arthur can't remember it, is completely unsurprised that they spoke to Arthur and asks Arthur why he didn't take the deal Milton offered him

“YOU TOLD ON ME” -Kid in preschool when someone tells on him for stealing crayons

I don't think that Abigail was a rat. If she wanted to leave with Jack and John, she could have just left the gang. They wouldn't hunt her down as we know. Even with Jack alone, she would have found a job (as we know). It's not that she HAD to rat on the gang. That were too many risks for her and her son.

Abigail literally says she’s afraid of the Pinkertons in the clip after ~19:00. She wouldn’t go to them. She’s one of the most loyal in the gang - to several other members if not to Dutch himself. (And the game has an actual rat run through Micah’s camp at the end to telegraph exactly who is what to each other; only Micah gets that treatment). I think Dutch accusing Abigail is part of his descent to madness - accusing John and eventually Arthur as well

I don’t think there’s any rat other than Micah. Arthur himself says that they’ve gotten sloppy and over the top lately so them just actually being noticed by the law from a mix of sloppiness and a growing tameness of the Americas makes a lot of sense. I do think Micah fed them bad tips constantly which threw gas into an already blazing fire

"We got sloppier than the town drunk, hell, we don't need a rat " Entire video down the toilet bcc one line

I don't think Abigail would plan for the Pinkertons to show up while jack is with arthur. She's doing everything for jack's safety, after all she wouldn't have worked with the Pinkertons for long enough to trust them with her sons life. Arthur had a shotgun aimed at his head, they could have just shot him and taken jack hostage. But I would like to add that she did know where the gangs gold was hidden, so surely she was at least looking for a way out, who knows how far she went

My belief is that there was no rat in between the blackwater ferry heist and guarma, the gang was just sloppy and arthur mentioned in his journal that they were camping just outside of blackwater, who's to say someone didn't get concerned by a massive group of people camping just outside the town? and the gang wasn't exactly quiet after that heist went wrong, robbing, killing, and fighting across the various states isn't lying low and that's why they constantly had bad luck.

I don’t think it’s likely but it’s definitely possible that Abigail is the rat. She loved Hosea she wouldn’t get him killed like that same with Arthur and Milton doesn’t even know johns name so Abigail didn’t say she needed John alive and seems to care for him

I personally think that amidst all the plans going wrong, Dutch’s hubris got in the way and made him think “there’s a rat” and not, “I’m being reckless”. Hes got too much pride to admit he was wrong, even to himself. Micah saw through that and tried to save himself, making Dutch get more reckless and telling the law on him, because if dutch found out that Micah was the rat, with a fully together gang, he’d be toast.

It's also intersting that at the time of Abigail shooting Milton she already thought John was dead, didn't she? So maybe she thought the deal didn't matter anymore because she was alot less known than John and probably assumed she could just disappear with Jack. Especially after offing one of the few people that know her.

I think because of Micah's low honor he didn't intend on betraying them, but because he probably has the worst luck he ended up forcing himself to just to survive

Rockstar story mode games always have multiple ways to explain the story leaving lots of room for debate

To be fair, I like the Milton character development. He’s not doing this because it brings him joy, he’s doing it because it’s his job to get rid of people that aren’t need in a new society, meaning that he didn’t kill Hosea in cold blood, he was just tired of giving warnings to the gang and knew they would never adapt to a new society. Think of it he gave the gang many warnings before the bank robbery and also he’s just a guy doing his job, not because he’s evil

One thing that I always thought was pretty unexplained was the train robbery, where you use the oil wagon to stop the train in chapter 2. Alot of lawmen show up eventually and Arthur mentions in the escape that it seemed like a setup with how many appeared. If you read the newspaper story on the train robbery it does directly say that the lawmen received a tip off about the robbery. I think it is strange as it is not pinkertons that show up but lawmen meaning that whoever gave the tip off went straight to the law so they probably were not a Pinkerton informant, yet. It is also strange as this was not the whole gang going to be involved like Blackwater Ferry or Saint Dennis bank but just 4 members of the gang doing the robbery, so why try a setup on them unless they just want to weaken the gang further? As for who would tip them off I would say Micah. I can't remember exactly where about Micah is at this point in the story, like at his Strawberry camp, but if he was at Horseshoe then I think he would be the main suspect as I think he is very focused on getting the Blackwater stashed money and less gang members = more money in his share. You can hear a conversation between him and Dutch where he offers to do a lone wolf mission to Blackwater and retrieve the money if Dutch just tells him where it is but dutch says no. Micah needs to find this out where the money is hidden and to do this he aims to stay on Dutch's good side for this. Maybe he hopes by taking out more major members of the gang then Dutch might become desperate and send Micah to get the money? It is possible the Blackwater setup was Micah also. The whole robbery seemed to be his grand plan, he just needed a big gang to help him pull it off but if most of them were to die in a shootout afterwards then he would be able to take a bigger share of the money, or even eliminate the rest and take it all? I'm thinking of the robbery in the opening of The Dark Knight (Batman) movie with the Joker taking out all the other robbers until only he remains. Micah just didn't account for Dutch hiding the money in the town and most of the gang surviving, also becoming a wanted man that couldn't just go off on his own for a while. I think this could explain his actions going forward in the game where he tries to eliminate / ditch the gang until it is just him and Dutch and the Pinkertons become his best shot for achieving this.

they didn't need a traitor, they were sloppier than the town drunk

I always thought that Bronte got some type of information from Jack. Whenever Jack talks about his kidnapping he explains how he was treated really good but I don't think a character like Bronte would be good to someone for nothing. His ties to the police and government would make it meaningful.

I think John kept getting caught because the Pinkertons assumed him to be Dutch's favorite member, in oder to draw him out. And it only makes sense that they took Abigail because word of John escaping a high security prison got out.

Even after almost 5 years now, seeing Red Dead Redemption 2 videos feels so enjoyable, especially the theories, the plot breakdowns, it's just so satisfying to watch. This game is a fucking masterpiece. How perfect.

I believe the bounty of Dutch that Micah had proves that he was trying to get Dutch since before meeting with him; The bounty was 1,000 dollars, but Dutch was probably much more valuable than that, since Arthur alone was 5k. Dutch's bounty was probably an old one that put Micah on the trails of Dutch, Micah discovered the gang and tried to gain access to it, when he was about to make his move someone tried to kill Dutch and he saved his life so HE could get the bounty, but the circumstances were dire and he thought "maybe I could score some money with those dudes before I turn them in to the law". Just imagine how brilliant it would be for Micah to get the bounty each gang member, one by one before turning in the big boy Dutch: He would be rich! So, my conclusion is that Micah was chasing Dutch since the begining, but chose to stay with the gang so he could score some heists and some good money before seizing the moment and capturing Dutch. But that doesn't mean he was the rat to the Pinkertons since the begining. I do believe he was a traitor, but maybe not the Blackwater traitor, if ever there was one.

i just love Micah's dialogue, everytime he says Black Lung i laugh so hard🤣🤣

the wanted poster of dutch is interesting. the bounty only being 1000 $ makes we wonder if it's an old poster, something he might have picked up when he decided to find Dutch and join the gang. as for Abigail being a traitor, my only real question would be how she would go about it? As we are told plenty of times the ladies stay in camp all the time, and Abigail is illiterate so she couldn't send letters.

Sometimes the most simple explanation is the correct one. I think that the gang got too sloppy and predictable after the blackwater massacre, with the majority of the main story being make noise (planned or by circumstance) while planning a big robbery. Then when the robbery fails or they make a little too much noise, they move camp. The pinkertons knew this is how the gang operated and it was just a matter of pin pointing where the gang’s camp was at the time.

I genuinely just think Dutch and the gang were getting sloppy. Micah being the rat from the beginning could be true but I find it equally (if not moreso) likely that he just isn’t that careful and got into Dutch’s head, when he was picked up by the Pinkertons he just seized that opportunity.

I think it was Dutch that did them in. They didn't need a rat because he (and the gang at large) never kept a low profile. As soon as Chapter 2 begins, are you telling me nobody in Valentine didn't talk about the big, burly cowboy who beat up the local tough guy with his buddies, matching exactly the outlaws that Milton had been tracking in West Elizabeth? That's why Dutch has to float the idea, because his ego won't allow him to see that he was directly responsible for every. Single. Death.

You put so much work into these videos… it’s amazing.

Here's my theories on the various members mentioned here... Micah: Not the rat... not from the start, not after Blackwater, and not even after Guarma... He knew about Dutch long before joining the gang as indicated by the bounty poster of only $1,000 (Arthur is told he's worth 5, so that must have been an old poster of Dutch's, or just a local bounty from one town or state)... therefore it's safe to say that Micah was likely stalking Dutch, looking for an opportunity to join up with him... which also explains why he was able to save Dutch's life when every other member of the gang claims to have been saved BY Dutch... it was Micah's way of getting Dutch indebted to him... then along came the opportunity of the Ferry robbery in BW, which Micah may have been planning long before he met Dutch, but either way it's clear to me that his plan was to use Dutch and his gang to pull off the robbery, then systematically run off, or kill off, the other members so he wouldn't have to share it... as indicated by his hatred for most of the gang members, especially the ones who don't contribute... As for his status of "rat"... he was either a rat from day 1 and joined Dutch's gang at the request of the Pinkertons to be an inside agent, or (in my opinion) he never ratted at all and had no association with the Pinkertons, which would mean Milton lied about it. I don't believe he was captured by Pinkertons after returning from Guarma... Arthur was the first one off the boat, but yet Micah beat him to the new camp in Lakay, even if you go straight there instead of going to Shady Belle first... this could be developer oversight, or it could be further evidence that Milton lied. Either way, it's clear that all Micah ever wanted was to run his own gang, either by taking over Dutch's gang, or starting his own (which he did later on) and to have a vast sum of money that he didn't earn... particularly the blackwater money, which he eventually got with help from Dutch... all of his sucking up was simply to "rank up" within the gang... he never had any respect for Dutch at all, he just needed him because Dutch was the only one (besides Hosea who hated Micah) who knew where the Blackwater money was stashed... Molly: loved Dutch, but grew to hate him based on how he treated her... as shown by the many conversations and arguments between her and Dutch throughout the story... they argue some in ch 2, then in ch 3 (as you pointed out) she tries to talk to Arthur about being loyal... the way I see it, she was going to tell Arthur that she had been confronted by Milton and Ross just like he had at the river while fishing with Jack... but I don't believe that she had ratted on Dutch at that point, she just wanted to talk to Arthur who had been in a similar situation and get his advice on what to do... but after that conversation, she and Dutch can be heard arguing loudly quite often, and by chapter 4 their relationship deteriorated to the point where she was depressed all the time, Dutch was completely ignoring at that point, and I believe she really did tell Milton and Ross about the bank robbery just to spite him for treating her so badly, since she likely overheard Dutch and Hosea planning it... she went to St. Denis, told Milton about the bank heist plans (he was likely in St. Denis after the trolly heist and Bronte's murder), then she started a drinking binge to cope with what she had done, expecting Dutch to track her down and kill her... and she stayed in St. Denis until Uncle found her, still drunk... Abigail: not the rat, in my opinion... but I completely understand the theory... She didn't really fit in with the gang after having Jack, but stayed with them even while John was absent, though as you pointed out she wasn't being loyal, really, she was just waiting for John to come to his senses... (btw, it's implied that Hosea also took Jack fishing, he's the one who made him a fishing pole...or perhaps he also helped plan the meeting...) but anyway, I don't think abigail set up the meeting with Milton, she just noticed (woman's intuition) just by looking at Arthur, that something was bothering him... and as for the meeting at the end of chapter 3, there's no way in hell Abigail would allow her child to be abducted by enemies to allow for the gang to be arrested or to start a massive gun fight... sure, Milton may have known that Jack wasn't there and that may be why he approached them at that time, but I don't think they orchestrated the kidnapping, (as you pointed out they later shot up the building housing the whole gang, including Jack, at Lakay)... SO... after Jack was kidnapped and John finally realized he needed to step up and be a father to the kid, Abigail became 100% loyal to John, and not so much to the gang... which is why Micah suspected her and/or John as being the rat(s), and later seems to have convinced Dutch of that (as shown by the conversation in the cave on Guarma)... and that's why Dutch delayed breaking John out of prison and ultimately left him to die after he was shot during the train robbery... and Micah's theory was reinforced when Abigail got away during the bank heist, but clearly Hosea simply sacrificed himself so Abigail could escape... However, it is quite odd that they don't explain why Abigail is the only one taken when the Pinkertons raided the camp at Beaver Hollow... but it's implied that she was the only one there at the time, since none of the men were there, they were all out robbing the train... the Pinkertons took whoever they could for "bait"... and since Tilly ran off with Jack, Abigail was really the only one left... Pearson and Uncle had already fled, Strauss, Trelawny and Rev Swanson were all gone, even Mary-Beth and Karen had disappeared by that point, so Abigail, Grimshaw, Tilly and Jack were the only ones left... Maybe Grimshaw hid in the cave while Abigail and Tilly panicked when the Pinkertons showed up and had to search frantically to find Jack, so if Tilly found Jack and hid with him, and Abigail was found by the agents, it makes sense why she was the one taken and Tilly was able to see it happen... John: not the rat... but again, I understand the theory... especially since he left the gang once before... He was still loyal to the gang, though just as Abigail became more loyal to him after Jack's kidnapping, he became more loyal to her and Jack at that point as well... obviously plotting with Arthur on how to escape WHEN the gang falls apart, which they both saw as an inevitability by ch 6... but not to leave the gang or betray anyone, just to save Abigail and Jack... Sure, he was the only one taken alive after the bank robbery, but he simply may have surrendered after being seperated from the rest of the gang... we don't get to see it, but Javier's account of it makes it seem like John got surrounded and couldn't escape, so the only choice he had was to fight and die or surrender and hope to stay alive for the sake of his family... expecting Dutch to send someone to break him out like he had done for Sean after BW... and Micah in Strawberry... (and for Arthur numerous times if you play that way...) Dutch: betrayed himself, his own code and his own gang... Even though I'm convinced that Molly was the rat, I agree 100% that it was Dutch himself who destroyed the gang by continually pushing in the wrong direction... figuratively and literally (including pushing Molly to her breaking point)... If he had actually kept a low profile in ch 2 and moved the gang back out west (yes, they would have had to go back through the Grizzlies to do it, but the weather would have been much milder by then, so it would have been the right call)... the gang likely would have survived much longer than it did... Some might say that they couldn't go back through the grizzlies since the Pinkertons followed them through there to find them near Valentine, but I disagree... The Pinkertons found them because of the crap Micah stirred up in Strawberry, which blocked off all of West Elisabeth from the gang to travel through, leaving the grizzlies the only option they had left... other than moving east, which was clearly a bad idea... in hindsight, yes, but they were discussing moving back to the west in ch 2 and even mention it in ch 3... Hosea, Arthur, etc... all knew that was the better idea but they followed Dutch further east anyway. Even when you consider that Micah, Molly, Trelawny, Abigail AND John (even Pearson, lol) could have all been ratting at different times, it's still Dutch's decisions that sealed the fate of the gang... after all, he's the one who recruited all of them in the first place...

I feel like with John being arrested is because the Pinkertons don’t know who he is exactly, cause in chapter 3 when the pinkertons show up to camp. They ask who John is and he never gives his name, so they can’t nail him on anything since he’s not a known associate to any horrible crimes

15:04 he could just be trying to mess with Arthur, making him think he killed an innocent woman🤣💀

Dude your videos are fantastic for the scenery shots alone.

Micah was a rat long before chapter 6, the mission were you rob a bank (Chapter 4 maybe?) Micah has white clothing on while the rest of the gang are in black, indicating that the police force was told not to shoot the man in white. (This is not confirmed yet)

another of the great ones, good work man

Man. STILL finding dialogue I've never heard before. This game never ceases to amaze.

It's mad how much sense this makes and it was right under our noses the entire time.

I love all the theories and extra lore we get in this video. I will say personally I do not believe that there is a second traitor beyond Micah. There really doesn't need to be for the story to work out the way it did. I have always felt that RDR2 was also about really explaining why Dutch was the way he was in RDR1. He is his and his ally's worst enemy he simply cannot lay low or compromise because he's like a cult leader whose compound is being raided. He is all about control and "living free" based on his "code" but it doesn't matter how many people have to get buried he will always rationalize it. I mean it all perfectly lines up with his final encounter in RDR1 where he basically admits his "war" against civilization was futile you might as well try fighting a natural disaster barehanded.

Always ready for another Red Dead redemption 2 video

Micha also orchestrated the meeting with Colm O'Driscoll, and sent Arthur to the lookout spot where Colm later says they knew he would be waiting and the whole thing was about capturing Arthur to lure in Dutch. Only thing about that is that they already lured Dutch into the open 🤔

Loved this one 🙏🏿💜, I remember PVP Cat doing a similar video last year where he was bringing some theories about the various rat's beyond Micah. And I love that the writers have never confirmed or denied the various theories so it kinda leaves it all up in the air for us all.

I got the sense that Abigail and John were both red herrings, each being taken alive at different points to make the player think that is how they got out of the gang. It seems like Rockstar wanted John and Abigail to seem like moles, up until the end when it’s revealed to be Micah. I never got the sense that they actually betrayed the gang, rather Dutch’s paranoia about them made their actions seem more suspicious than they were.

Sean might be the second rat. On chapter 2 micah is locked away in Strawberry. When you get sean out from blackwater, you can do a train robbery with John, and Charles. Sean invites himself along. Yet the local law turn up quickly. This is even questioned by the gang members at the end of the mission. Now for my own experience, before this robbery happened, Abigail asked me to take Jack fishing. Where the Pinkertons first show up offering Arthur a deal... So within a short time of Sean's release, pinkertons arrive close to camp, a train robbery nearly goes bad... And Micah is still in jail. It is unlikely Micah was a rat until he came back from Guama.

One thing I've never seen in any of these videos is that how does the o'Driscolls knew where Arthur was when they had the parlay. Makes me think more towards Micah ratting him out. Maybe not cuz he's working with the Pinkertons, but his way into moving up the leadership ladder.

ive been binge watching your videos and theyre all so good, keep up the good work!

I cringe every time I see someone say that Abigail was a rat. As if she’d put her 4 year old son in direct danger of being killed or orphaned by bringing the law down on them. And the idea that she’d purposely send Jack to a location where Pinkertons would be, knowing the danger that would put him in, and would also pick THE most loyal member to send into this supposed plan, is ridiculous.

Great video. I think you made a lot of good points in this, especially about Dutch (who frankly became a disaster by the end) and the gang being very unsubtle about everything. I mean some of them were notorious very loud people. (I mean Bill's very stealthy attempt at trying to find the gang in the swamp hideout, not surprising they were found). I believe Molly was just very upset with Dutch and wasn't in a good emotional state. It just seemed like (whether or not she planned on getting unalived) she really just wanted a go at Dutch (like maybe she wanted/tried to tell the Pinkertons stuff but not in a Wanted To Be An Informant way, more like a Pissed At Dutch way). Micah is just very easy to hate and is clearly extremely selfish. As for Abigail, having a kid would have made her and/or John particularly vulnerable members. Something that could have been exploited if the Pinkertons knew. Not that Milton was even remotely trustworthy about anything. RDR2 has a very interesting story and there is a lot that is unclear about it. I mean we start AFTER the Blackwater mess and are also limited to Arthur's perspective who conviniently (storywise) was not actually present at the event. I mean another game might have started with that mission.

Thank you for this insight & wonderful editing

28:26 Ooft Micah copying Arthurs "You'll work it out Dutch...", never noticed that before, so freaking creepy!!! Awesome video!

My theory is that Micah was the rat from the start. He necessarily didn't work with Pinkertons, but he was trying to enrich himself. He somehow heard that Dutch has a stach somewhere in Blackwater, then he cosied up to him to try and get to know where it is. For months Dutch didn't tell him, so Micah came up with a plan- the Ferry job. He anonymously tipped off the Pinkertons in a hope that Dutch would get shot and before he dies he would reveal to Micah where the stash is (with Dutch thinking Micah would use it to help the gang to get away). That's why Arthur nor Hosea weren't at that job. But during the story of RDR 2 Micah's plan changed, and in the end, the best way for Micah to get a lot of money was to help the gang rob the Saint Denis bank (which failed, probably not Micah's fault but who knows maybe this was the similar to Ferry job- anonymously tip off Pinkertons and then run away with the money during the chaos) and in the end to drive a wedge between Dutch and Arthur so that Micah could tip off Pinkertons while running away with the train job money.

It's possible Abigail revealed the location of the camp in chapter 3 hoping that the Pinkerton's would help to get her son back in return. I seriously doubt that they were working with the Braithwaites.

Also micah was the only one wearing a bright white suit during the saint denis heist. A big red “don’t shoot me i’m the informant” sign.

Arthur said it himself. "We don't need a rat. We got sloppier than the town drunk..."

Yaaaas my, man milking red dead and we love it. Quality content as always. Keep it up Fizhy❤😊

I think Abigail started ratting out the gang when jack has been kidnapped, probably because she was scared for his life and was going insane, so she did it because she thought jack wouldn't get rescued and that if she becomes a traitor and on the Pinkertons' sides she would get jack back, but then when they got jack back, she knew she screwed up, so somewhere between chapter 5/chapter 6 she left the Pinkertons' sides, which then explains the end where Abigail is captured and tried for murder

Great video as ever, only last week I was looking around here and Reddit to see if anyone had a good, fleshed-out theory on a non-Micah traitor, then the best RDR channel comes out with it. I do love these lore videos and enjoy rewatching the older ones too. I do think Abigail is likely to be "betraying" the gang by a certain point, the circumstances of the Saint Denis robbery around her escape and John being arrested rather than killed as Hosea and Lenny are point to it, and the fact she takes the opportunity to kill Milton having never killed anyone else that we know of speak to it. Yes, she does it to save Arthur but as she is sat there watching Milton spill the beans on Micah and Molly, the thought must occur that her name might be next out of his mouth. The thing is, I agree with her motivations if she is informing on the gang - she has Jack to think about, wants out of the gang life along with John and will surely do anything to facilitate that happening. She cares for Arthur, Hosea and some of the others no doubt but she also will see by mid/late game that those close allies agree with her notion of needing to get out. I think you're spot on regarding the fishing mission set-up too. Micah is clearly out for himself from the start, but up until the bank robbery in Chapter 4 fails, he is better placed to try and engineer his own solo success out of the gang's demise by nabbing the Blackwater money, rather than informing. After Guarma, it is all clearly falling apart and he sees his best chance for self-preservation is by playing the Pinkertons against the gang. He's been a traitor the whole time, but not an outright rat until that point. I would have liked to see some exploration of Hosea as a potential traitor, for some of the same reasons as Abigail's place in the distraction during the robbery, and because he is shown to be terminally ill and genuinely cares about the well-being of the gang members. Perhaps he felt he could bargain for the safety of Abigail, John and the others who weren't outright murdering gunslingers, and perhaps Milton murdering him in the street is a direct betrayal of an agreement they had. I like it as an idea less than Abigail being a traitor, but it's something worth mooting. Anyway, great to see an in-depth video on this topic at last! Keep them coming, if you can manage to continue finding new angles to look at RDR2's wonderful narrative. No mean feat after over 4 years, but you're still doing it. Cheers Fizhy.

Mary-Beth checks just the right boxes: she never comes into direct conflict with the Pinkertons, she's conspicuously absent from Lakay, she's the one who gave the lousy train tip where lawmen ambushed the gang, she abandons the gang as the last possible moment right before Pinkertons raid them.

What if there was never a rat, maybe milton figured he couldn't stop the gang unless he destroys them from the inside. So he said there was a rat to get them to turn on each other. And it worked

If the theory about Abigail is true, then Milton was likely using her as bait in the final mission. It would certainly explain how she would be able to untie herself.

13:58 wtf molly that was terrifying 🤣

Will always love the “Five thousand dollars! ….Can I turn myself in?” 😂😂

There is a conversation between Abigail and Hosea at the camp fire in chapter 2 she said “I’m sorry Hosea, he said why? Her response was very nervous

Gimme dis content immediately I cannot wait the 1 hour and 9 minutes

The whole blackwater ferry massacre is a good setting to build on and give more backstory with a possible future RDR 3 game with new main characters

Great video. Had an idea though. Pinkertons gets word that the O’Driscolls are growing in numbers and becoming a major problem in the region. They also have received a tip that The Van Der Linde have moved into the area. So the Pinkertons set up the ferry job as a trap waiting to see which fish they can catch. Sending out under covers to drop information regarding the ferry and it’s payload. Micha gets word and tells Dutch because he’s money driven and they go for it. What if it didn’t start because of a rat but rather a trap?

I think it’s heavily implied Abigail being the rat. But surely if she was, later on when she’s captured in RDR1, John would have found out off of Agent Ross when he’s used to be able to track down the old crew. Also, why would she be tied up in the last mission of Chapter 6 yet Micah who is also the rat isn’t attacked by the Pinkertons. In the shootout at camp. He’s just able to slip away. Also, at the end of the game Agent Ross goes up to Micah’s camp and then is surprised to find him dead. Almost like he was waiting for Micah to hand over Dutch since he wasn’t expecting Dutch to shoot him

Abigail seems to be kinda rat but when she kills Milton it doesn’t seem like that but I still think Micah was the real traitor

Well he said the Pinkertons picked Miach up after Guam, but he didn't say if it was the first time he had been picked up or if Miach had previously made contact with the Pinkertons or not.

This is certainly very interesting, but one other thing i noticed in the video just at the end, is the giant plume of smoke coming from the campfire, that kind of ruins the idea of a secret hideout. Perhaps that's how the Pinkertons found the campsite, just like how the player finds other campsites, with treasure maps and such.

Imagine a prequel with the story of hosea and dutch

In my personal opinion Micah did not rat he’s an outlaw through and through he loves the life as much as his guns he would not give that up he was even casual when he was about to die because that’s part of the life However Molly did but in my opinion hadn’t enough information to actually make a difference so they let her go I also think Abigail is a likely suspect there’s motive and she certainly was capable of doing it However I would not be surprised if Karen accidentally ratted whilst drunk at a bar Even Trelawny is a somewhat reasonable suspect he had some motive and again the means to do something with it There’s also a lot of ‘side characters’ not main gang members but could certainly rat a bit They got sloppy so they died if there’s a rat then Milton would’ve known how close Micah and Dutch became so why not sow seeds of doubt incase everything doesn’t go his way Realistically everyone but Arthur,John,Havier,Jack,Straus,Hosea and Dutch himself are not out of the conversation for who the rat is

My theory is actually hosea. The ferry job which both hosea and Arthur weren't apart of (Arthur is talked about like Dutch and hosea's son) could've been a way for hosea to try and rid the gang of the hot head killers he has a disdain for while also protecting the people he cared about most

In my Opinion, Micah had been on the Pinkerton's pay role well before the Blackwater ferry robbery. He had one simple mission; Bring Dutch in alive. In Chapter Three this was going well until Arthur Morgan escaped Colm O'Driscoll's goons, whom were working with the Pinkertons and Micah Bell.