Was This Persona's Worst SL Rank? (An Alternative Interpretation...) 

Just want to absolutely clarify that what I mean by "Akechi initiates the original confidant" = Joker is the recipient in this case, much like how the party members and Kawakami, Iwai, Takemi, etc. are for Joker. And to add to that, the way I interpret P3 onwards, "wild card lore" is that only these people in question are aware of SLs/confidants. That said, all these relationships are still two way streets like any relationship irl, it's just that it doesn't seem like the other "non-wild card party" is aware of actual rank ups or benefits like that. Because of that, I don't think non-WCs can start/make SLs on their own. Also also lol, because of how P3 cast evolve to their ultimate personas, it doesn't seem like the SL max rank itself is necessary for that (considering the guys' don't even have that with the MC, yet they all achieve it), which is why I still think party members aren't necessarily aware of the actual "confidant mechanic" going on, they just think they're forming a really solid relationship. WC lore in general seems different from P3 onwards, which is something I'd like to talk about in another video sometime soon! There's also *technically* 780 social link ranks total, I just counted Strength and Sun in P4 as one SL each since most players will only see one of the two separate routes in a single playthrough (unless they go look it up on youtube or do an entire replay lol). And Akechi has two seeing the changes from base P5 to Royal. Also, in case anyone is worried about the copium meme, all I'm gonna say is, non-hateful people have been, and still are, taking Pepe back babeyyyy! 🎮TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/ladyvirgilia 🐤TWITTER: @VirgiliaLady twitter.com/VirgiliaLady 🌟PATREON: www.patreon.com/LadyVirgilia

"I sense a solid bullet between me and Akechi."

Akechi: Kills Joker. Joker: I feel a strong bond with Akechi.

Joker: “I feel a solid bond with Akechi” Akechi: “I want to place a solid bomb in Joker’s bed”

6:26 Akechi is legitmately stalking Joker tho. He was there in Madarame and Kaneshiro's palaces watching. In the P5 animation they even show him in Kaneshiro's palace. In an unused mementos conversation in Royal Akechi admits he only came to Leblanc to stalk Joker but then actually ended up enjoying the coffee. It makes sense you get a stalkerish vibe from his confidant. He was def tailing the group the entire game. You just don't really see it until Okumura's palace.

Akechi's rank 8 in vanilla p5 has always been so funny to me. I understand why people say its bad but the bewildering contrast from reading "my bond with akechi has grown stronger!" right after he tries to KILL YOU really tickles my funny bone for some reason, so I've never been able to hate it. This theory puts his vanilla confidant into a lot of perspective, and i like it! Royal was my first experience with p5 and going in i didnt really know the differences between p5 and p5r, and only learned what akechi's original vanilla confidant was like from your akechi video (which is one of my favorite p5 videos of all time), and other p5 vids. I really think the changes to his confidant were for the better in pretty much every way! I had been spoiled on akechi's role as a villain before i started p5, and for most of the game i didn't think i would like him that much, but when he died in shido's palace i almost cried and his role in the 3rd semester got me to genuinely like his character. Its also thanks to his royal confidant that i can actually understand why people would want to ship joker with him (shukita is my number 1 but shuake is a solid 2nd). I just wanna end this comment by saying that you're my favorite persona-centered youtuber, and i cant wait for your future videos! Take care! 💕

Akechi: **Attempts to murder Joker** Joker: The nerve of this dude!... I like him!

The other “Bad” rank up is Kanji’s Rank 1. Basically you have to find a rumor started by a student that he’s “bullying people” then go to him to start it. You act very stand-offish to him, despite the fact that we know he doesn’t actually bully people, and you literally just rescued him. It’s odd how you’ll believe random rumor mongers over Kanji. After rank 1 the SLink just shifts to you believing Kanji. It’s so tonally “wrong” that to me it’s worse.

I'd always thought of Robin Hood being a symbol of Akechi's relationship/confidant with Joker too, but with Akechi being the reversed Fool and Joker the reversed Justice. Fantastic analysis as always!

Okay I haven't fully watched the video yet but the funniest thing about vanilla rank 8 was that it was Cognitive Joker who Akechi kills, which means real Joker is just sitting in an empty interrogation room like "Why do I feel my bond strengthening with Akechi?"

aketchi is one of the reasons why royal is so much better, he went from meh, to my favorite charater. futaba was my favorite, because my mom suffers from social anxiety like her, so she is reatable to me, but royal made aketchi my favorite, in spite of what he did to futaba, won't say because spoiliers, but yeah props to royals writing. turning a c villain, b at best, into s teir "villain?"

To add to this: the presence of the original scenes in P5R with no rank-ups doesn't disprove this theory, it actually supports it. Akechi owns the vanilla chain, Joker owns the P5R one, and they only sync up at the very end when all the pretenses are dropped. This is part of why Joker reaches Rank 8 before Akechi does: Akechi doesn't know that Joker is fully aware of what's coming, while Joker just saw a bit more of the "real" Akechi in their fight. Mind you, any discussion of "they're Joker's links" also needs to contend with the issue of Judgement effects echoing back into the pre-interrogation narrative, something that still happens in Royal, so I would say there's already a plot hole in the rank-ups and this theory, while sound, is unlikely to be canon's intent.

I think the rank 8 does make a lot of sense, in Akechi's eyes, Joker has now truly seen Akechi for who he is and has a deeper understanding of him. We don't know his motivations quite yet but he's finally shown us another side of himself. On Joker's side, he already knows this, but the player doesn't, and so Joker is just now "remembering" this side of Akechi (due to the interrogation). It feels like how we get a confidant with Sae despite us technically being in the past while reaping the benefits of it. Of course I prefer Royal though, Akechi really went from "that weird guy from work" to Joker's beloved blorbo with the addition of his confidant and the ability to ask him to kichijoji hangouts. He is Joker's poor little meow meow and he cannot escape the cat whiskers in Dancing Star Night

I kinda thought that was the case, too. Especially since Mona draws attention to it. It's clearly not a mistake. Also, Akechi seeming stalker ish can be seen in 2 ways I think: 1, a dry joke. This is what you look like to other people when you pursue a social link, saying whatever you think will work. 2, an important, grim point - Akechi comes off insincere and awkward in a lot of ways, not for lack of trying, but lack of ability. He didn't fail to build relationships, he wasn't capable of it in the first place.

I think you guys put WAY more thought into that than the actual writers did And thank you for that

i think this headcanon is really interesting. if akechi is a wildcard it could make sense that the rank up in from his end… (though i think joker would be a completely different arcana in akechis deck) i had this thought once that even if akechi is a “squandered/broken” wildcard, what if his personas still represent bonds he has with others while being manifestations of his heart? and then i realized and i was like oh. oh no. robin hood for akechi’s relationship with his mother. loki for his relationship with shido. and hereward for his relationship with joker. considering their bond is literally how wereward came to be.

I still say that akechi royal rework is such a big improvement, especially rank 8. Only problem with rank 8 is that maybe show his insanity a bit too early. Despite the game saying shido being the main human antagonist/villain for the game, I said it akechi deserves that title more. He a dark foil to joker, he interacted you and your team way more, he behind a lot of the conspiracy. Hell he have his hammy Villian moments that people can meme on.

I never really understood what they were going for with akechis social link in vanilla p5, but royal knocked it out of the park imo. I like the idea it was actually akechi ranking up, not joker. As for my least favorite social link I'd have to say the moon from p3. I couldn't stand that character. I guess he grew at the end but I'd winch every time I had to talk to him leading up.

I've always felt that the social links represent how deep your bonds are rather than simply how much they like you. Most of them like and trust the protagonist from the start, after all. The rank ups represent your fates becoming more intertwined. When Akechi "kills" you, that deepens his ties to you, arguably more than any other interaction you have.

One that is comically bad is Moon's rank 9 in Persona 3. I don't think it's any secret that Nozomi is pretty disliked, but seriously - he's just kind of an ass for most of his link with no meaningful development besides FOOD FOOD FOOD, then near the conclusion of his link he tries to scam you. Of course, he fails, and when he's confronted by a bunch of people who also were scammed by him, you run up to investigate the scene, and like the coward he is, he hides behind you.... which gives you a rank up for some reason? I can't take any of his link seriously with just how stupid it is lol

While the theory of the different perspectives is a bit out of left field, I do like the idea of the opposing wild-card user gaining power from hanging out with us. Just imagine, you come up to the fight with Akechi and after you beat back robin hood, if you maxed out (for the time) his arcana, in the second part after a couple of turns with Loki he'd say "Here's a little something that I picked up from you, Joker" and swaps Loki for some high ranking Fool arcana (Since the fool is directly connected to Joker, while Justice is with Akechi), like Rhaol or Black Frost. Be interesting that the same power that you used to become stronger now makes the boss even harder.

Akechi's rank 8 in royal is also a bit weird (not as weird, but still weird): Akechi: I fucking hate you. *My bond with Akechi has grown deeper...*

Having only played Royal, I adore Akechi and he's one of my favourite characters. He's barely repressing his unpleasant elements the entire game, has suffered a lot of the same traumas the PTs have, but he never bothered to establish real human connection and then went insane, and then in the third semester is just a glorious dickhead the entire time.

Not gonna lie your videos made me wanna play the game, so I purchased it myself because Akechi was very interesting character . Thank you for making the video. It did inform me up a lot.

Great video as always, Lady Virgillia! That would make sense, but I think Igor's (Yaldabaoth) SL directly contradicts this. Even if it were from the perspective that his and Ren's relationship were from Igor's POV, it wouldn't make sense since Igor had no genuine feelings toward Joker. With Akechi, he opens up about himself to Joker. Even if he hated Ren, there's no doubt that Akechi still considered him a confidant (I.e someone in whom he could confide). Whereas from Igor's perspective, Joker was a pawn in his game and nothing more for the entirety of their "bond". I hope you're doing well!

75 Social Links? I never took the time to even consider that but woah. 750 individual rank ups. And those who've played all 3 Hashino games may have experienced all of them by now. My pick for worst rank up? Nozomi in P3 has a lot of terrible moments, and then there's Kaz and you having to encourage toughing through his injury, Devil in P4 having wildly inconsistent themes (jumping between rumors of an affair, to a regret over a patient who died, to burning herself out with work)... but it's been a while and I can't remember the specific ranks of those. So my pick has to go to Kawakami's Romantic Rank 10. It feels like one of the writers wanted it to be a rejection, but others pressured them into having her be an option, so you get what is essentially "You're my student and it would be wrong... BUT YOU'RE SUCH A CHAD I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!" It's also weird that the other adult romances will reject you unless you choose certain dialogue options, but it doesn't seem like there's a rejection flag for Kawakami. And this will anger a lot of people but I'm not a fan of Naoto's romance route split in P4. You're sort of forced to impose traditional masculine-dominant, feminine-submissive roles on her, which is similar to how she feared she'd be treated in the workforce. I've seen varying takes on it and some good defenses, but it's still not my thing.

Can't believe my prediction was right LOL amazing video as always! What an interesting take on the entire Confidant in P5, makes me even happier that P5R gave us a true, mutual bond between the two characters!

This is a really interesting take. I actually support this theory entirely, as I have theorized about something similar. I was thinking about how Akechi is the only wild card that isn't of the Fool arcana. That was before remembering that the tarot cards represent a story, and that every other wild card is the Fool because we play the game through their perspective, they're the main characters. So, adding to what this video discusses about vanilla, from Akechi's point of view Akechi is the fool and Joker is Justice. This can be further solidified by the fact that Joker has a strong sense of justice and clearly expresses this when first meeting each other.

One thing I like in Royale, the extra social links added stop short of 10 rank ups. Hopefully they use that more for certain automatic social links that aren't important or are just on rails, the Sae segments would go a lot easier if she wasn't also forming a 10 part bond with Joker over the course of... 30hours? I also wish Akechi's vanilla link was a trap where by artificially forming a bond with you he is opening you up to more tricks, but I also like the theory of Akechi as another Fool able to develop bonds (which just raises what arcana is Ren to him? Is everyone else filling up their fool social link or does the protagonist represent something else to each person?).

I feel like Aketchi'a P5 confidant is like, this slowly encroaching villain that's getting closer to us and is stalking us as prey. Even Lupin and Zenigata grow closer despite Zenigata and Lupin not being friends. However for rank 8, it would have been fun if they pulled a P3, reversed the rank and it went to 0. Then back to 9 again when he realizes he screwed up.

I'm so glad that someone else thinks that robin hood thing, that has been my personal head canon for so long

The arcana are meant to symbolize the character’s growth as well as how the protagonist learns from the SL character. Tbh, I didn’t mind the OG rank 8 scene because I didn’t see it necessarily that Joker and Akechi grew closer. I saw it as a stepping stone to their fight where they discover the truth to justice (both in terms of the arcana and their overall goals). Also, whether Joker was even there or not, the relationship was irreversibly changed during rank 8, so I understood the logic of putting rank 8 there as opposed to earlier or later. It’s not like rank 8 was the first time a SL progressed despite the relationship between protag and arcana rep becoming more strained. That’s how relationships work sometimes. It’s not the worst SL rank up imo, but I see your points.

It does make a bit more sense, to say that Akechi is the one seeking you out throughout all of OG P5, hence why it’s an auto confidant. He’s putting way more into it than you are. Though I had always thought Confidants were always 2-way streets, it’s not like Joker could build a confidant with a cognitive version of a real person, most of them are give and take relationships, even if that “give and take” is something simple like being their for a friend. I feel like the best you can say is that the mutual understanding of each other as enemies is what causes the confidant to rise. Akechi likely always saw joker as an adversary, but only really after Joker knew his true nature did Joker think of him the same way, while joker seemed mostly indifferent before, now he definitely isn’t anymore. That said, Igor’s 10 in P5/P5R is weird too. It happens after “Igor” reveals himself to be Yalbodaoth, but seemingly not with the real Igor, which makes me wonder if the game is trying to imply that Joker and Yalbodaoth are confidants, in which case, why it is that Yalbodaoth is rank 10 with you.

unpopular opinion, but I would argue that Joker is fundamentally involved in the scene, as it's happening and end results are directly of the teams making. it was still a deeply intimate encounter. ( I mean looking some in the eyes as you murder them or knowingly engaging with someone you know will try to murder you is pretty personal) I understood it as an advancing and mutual hateful respect as they continued to knowingly dance around one another. and just kind of accepted the automatic and less joker-centric nature of it as simply a person other you being able to show some agency.

I feel like the wildcard potential wasn't really explored in either Royal or Vanilla for Akechi. Like yes we know he didn't get to be at his max potential but hypothetically if Joker were to teach him would Akechi be able to acquire personas or is that something strictly Joker can do? I feel like their bond is best described as being on opposite sides of the chess board. Would Akechi's closed off nature affect his wildcard abilities in ways he couldn't have ever anticipated or realized? I feel like they had a lot of potential there and just chose not to address it. Yes it's probably because Akechi not getting to reach his full potential as a wild card because of his nature is supposed to be the point but I don't know. I feel like there was more they could've done there.

I love your analysis videos!! I hope you can get around to analyzing persona 4 💕 I need to know your thoughts about Kanji and Naoto bc they’re my favs 😭😭

Of course we are missing the actual answer It was just another way of throwing the player off to make the reveal of the plan more surprising

I hope you’re doing great Virgilia.

Wow, I never knew this was an infamous Rank. I just completed Shido Palace on the Vanilla P5 and I think this rank was the best considering what happens next ( when you get rank 10 with akechi ). As my first time playing a persona game, it has been amazing experience... On the other hand, I always saw the confidant ranks as getting to know who the person is and how is trying to achieve things in their lives. So knowing the truth about Akechi's personality. I felt like Batman and The Joker were Bonding there, like finally knowing/respect your rival/enemy. It felt amazing, I wish they keep this kind of confidants. I get and love the power of friendship but having a bond with your rival is the best for me.

Well I always thought social links can grow from both parties, since however you appear to somebody else is dictated by that other persons views regarding you. So to me it was always that Akechi's SL grew depending on how strong he felt about joker as a rival, or antithesis. Havent played royal (only vanilla p5) and I really dont want to hang out with him 😅

I just always assumed it was because Akechi finally quit the bullshit and showed Joker his true face, which-egregious context of the scenario aside-is WAY more than Akechi has done for anyone else in the series thus far.

Actually, I think the headcanon that Akechi was the one creating the confidant instead of Joker makes a lot of sense. I don’t just say this because of the automatic rank-ups in the vanilla P5, but also because of another confusing aspect of the social links in P3 and P4 that don’t seem to relate to each other, yet if this headcanon mixed in with them, it may make sense. In P3, we all know that Akahiko is the Emperor, yet doesn’t have a social link with the male Protagonist, yet when it’s the fem MC, he has a social link with her as… the Star. I’ve searched and no one seems to know the reason to this other than I guess the game developers didn’t want to get rid of the social link with the Vice President, yet are willing to get rid of the Star one? The P4 one isn’t as confusing but does make the idea of social links interesting, that being that your Sun and Strength Social links will depend on which sports or clubs you join. It makes sense until you realize that the two Strength social links are best friends that spend time with each other, meaning that whoever you choose as your Strength Social link, you will meet the other one by default without a social link to him. Kinda makes you wonder if we are to believe the main character is the one creating the social link or confidant, why couldn’t we create the same social link with the Sun or Strength in P4 without needing to join the same Sports or Clubs as they do? If the social link or confidant was created by the other character of that arcana, then it may explain the reason why whichever Sun or Strength social link we get depends on which sports or clubs we join, being they’d be interested in us if we were to share the same passions and activities as they do. For P3, the male character is not seen as the most social person on the planet. When dating anyone in P3, you could risk breaking your social link with your lovers if you distance yourself from them. It’s the same if you play as the femMC. You also risk breaking your social links in PC if you friendzone your lovers. It almost makes you question if either your male or female characters you play are even controlling the social link at all. If we are to believe the social links are created by the other characters and not the MC, then it makes sense for the social link to be broken since they had expected a romantic social link and not a friendship one. P4 and P5 didn’t have that issue since the MC’s of those games didn’t have the same issues with socializing as the MC’s in P3. As for Akihiko being the Star social link for the feMC instead of the Emperor, if we were to assume he’s the one creating the social link and taking his entire social link into account, it strangely makes sense. Basically, Akihiko considers himself the Emperor to everyone else, but a Star to the feMC. With the feMC, he doesn’t feel the need to become stronger to protect her like he does with everyone else. It’s for that reason why he doesn’t create a social link with the male MC, but will with the feMC, being… his social link is a romantic social link, meaning he’s likely planning a future with feMC. Think of it this way, if the Emperor of a country was to marry an Empress of another country, both countries would become one country and while they’d be considered Emperor and Empress to their countrymen, to each other, they’d consider each other lovers or some form of optimism to each other. I know, strange metaphor, but I hope it makes sense.

I think p5 changing s.links to confidants was not just a minor thing. To me the ranks don't mean how deep the relationship is but each rank up representa a Milestone in the story/relationship. This makes perfect sence for the odd confidants like sae, igor, akechi and even the twins. And if rank ups are just milestones in the story/relationship joker surviving akechi's trap would fit perfectly

I liekd Akechis confidant in Royal. The only thigns wrongb with Akechi's confidants wer eall fixed in Royal.

Honestly this is such an interesting take on Akechi's rank 8. Ngl I never really encountered the issue with Akechis vanilla P5 rank 8 because I had watched the anime first and then I played Royal when it came out, so I remember being so surprised why everyone was complaining about it. Honestly I think even the anime did a better job of establishing their relationship than in vanilla P5 because they actually spent time on their relationship, but I honestly still think that Royal did the best job.

Yo Virgilia, I wanted to say that I am really digging your videos so far. I got introduced to your channel after Tony4u's alignment problem video and your vids have been really helping me appreciate the Persona games more. Keep up the good work!

It could be that with Akechi actually following through with his plan of killing Joker made Joker understand Akechi's character a lot more.

Persona has a wide range of Social Links that range from Fantastic to terrible. Akechi's P5 Social Link is always so forgettable for me because its automatic so when I replayed the game, I just pressed options to skip the text sense it didn't matter what I'd do or say it would rank up anyway, and the same applied with Morgana. Automatic S.Links are amongst the blandest for me personally and I hope that all just become manual in P6.

If there wasn't an updated social link for Royal, I would have been satisfied with the vanilla version. At least it doesn't fall under the cardinal sin of persona socially links: being spread out over 10 stages despite only having enough material for three or four

This one was my favourite while replaying original P5. It was just so funny xD

My reasoning behind the confidant level up is that joker outsmarted akechi. Since joker and crow have a friend but foe "rivalry" before and after joining. Joker knowing he outplayed akechi, gave him the confidence and upperhand against in this "rivalry". Deepening the "bond" between the both wildcards. This is supported by the fact joker smiles with cockiness in the cutscene. "The joker always has the last laugh"

Adachi after he is caught is the Worst rank up to me It should've just maxed after you beat him and he agrees to Turn himself in

ok this was recommended to me and I thought you meant his royal rank 8 before I clicked on it and I was literally about to start a fight

Think about it; Akechi seems stalkerish by knowing where to find you and forcefully deepen his bond with you. But isn't that the same thing we do as Joker? Except Akechi is bad at it, and only has one person he can come to

I like to think that it IS from Joker's perspective, but the fact that PT's plan was exectuted perfectly and Akechi actually went through his murder attempt gave Joker another insight of who Akechi really is as a person, thus why his confidant rank grew, as his confidant he knew a deep part of him that no one except him and maybe Shido knew of Pancake Boi.

Phew ok, I thought for a second you were talking about Akechi's rank 8 from Royal being one of the worst. And I would have thrown down on that. Glad I was wrong and yeah this rank up is so weird.

I saw that comment when I watched your Akechi video and it started living rent free on my head too. I think it makes a lot of sense, although I personally headcanon that since both Joker and Akechi are Wild Cards, their Confidant is a two-way bond that they both can deepen and sense (in contrast to non-Wild Card characters, who, as far as I know, never acknowledge the bond itself in any way, unlike Akechi in his vanilla rank 3 scene, where he says "We seem to share some kind of bond."). In vanilla P5, however, Joker doesn't have any chances for deepening their bond himself since they never exchanged phone numbers, so neither can invite the other to hang out like in Royal, where the bond is way more mutually initiated and built up than in vanilla, where it's all Akechi's doing.

i honestly always liked vanilla’s rank 8 bc the timing was hilarious to me LMAO

The worst social links as a whole by far are the Ken social link during the FemC route in portable or Nozomi in either version of P3.

I even forgot Vanilla P5 thought it was weird Akechi's confidant ranked up when it did. I can totally buy Vanilla's Justice automatic rank up being from Akechi's pov, due to him and Joker having similar abilities

Finally, I can watch your vids without the fear of spoilers now that I've reach 3rd semester. Weirdly, I've been getting your vids ever since I started Royal. Google really does look through you computer's data.

Regarding your point on Akechi being the one with the confidant rather than Joker, he's still the one to instigate the confidant between him and Joker in Royal. Which would also comply with the theory about his two personas. Of course he's not the one instigating meetings between the two but given how terrible he already is at achieving confidants in the first place, it's easy to see why Joker would be allowed to level it himself.

Ok so I dont want to type a whole essay but you basically encapsulated ALL my thoughts about the confidant headcannons in this video. I always thought it would be AWESOME if Akechi got Robin Hood from his bond with Joker. Like I always imagined a scene back when the bond was first established that Joker unlocked the Justice Card like we saw in the game...but from Akechi's perspective he unlocked the Fool Card, feeling that something changed but he didn't know what, triggering that motivation to talk with and bond with Joker as well as unlocking a whole new Persona. Unfortunately this theory may fall flat due to Royal. I specifically remember Futaba saying that Akechi had/made two personas "One for his hate, and one for his lies." The latter still possibly being from his bond. I kinda wish Akechi like...talked about his power. Because while both Joker and Akechi or Wild Cards there powers MAY be a bit different from each other. Akechi was LITERALLY able to conjure a whole new persona for his Detective Prince acts, like HOW? So it stands to reason that MAYBE other personas can be created via bonds or other personality traits. I'll stop here but this was a great video! I love when people discuss these kinda of topics!

I feel like they could be each others confidants and it could work both ways. If Joker had prayed for a stronger bond that could have done something, but because Goro is a trickster, him praying would also work. Because tey are both tricksters, either could deepen the bond, without the other needing to take active part. Notably Joker could gain points wit people by dreaming about them - essentially a cognitive version of him hanging with a cognitive version of them. Akechi meeting a cognitive Joker in the metaverse seems to be a more real experience of a similar kind.

When they level up, closer Joker goes "Alright!" As he usually does when showing a bond deepend. Im like "Being shot dead is the very oppocite of all right!"

I was confused when I saw the title because I was like 'What do you mean? The fact that you got to actually hang out with him and rank it up yourself rather than by the story made it better.' Then you said vanilla while explaining it and I never thought too much about that version.

5:43 It says 確か instead of 固い. 確か means solid/reliable/secure/propper, so that "certain" in the re-translation means something like "having certainty in the relationship". So it's easy to see why the localization used the same word in this dialogue (although it does originally have a different word and it would have been a nice touch to use a synonym in the translation)

I always viewed the Akechi Confidant more as a 'Keep your friends close; Keep your enemies closer' kind of situation. In Vanilla and Royal I get the impression Joker has no like or interest in Akechi, beyond self preservation.

Akechi: *tries to kill you* Joker: “Jokes on you, I’m into that shit!” *rank 8 achieved*

So my thoughts are that the point of confidants or social links ins't necissarily about making friends as much as it is about gaining a better understanding of the person the confidant is linked to. As such, Joker could have gained a new level of understanding about Aketchi through these events despite not actually being present for them.

so Akechi being the reverse Fool, essentially. perhaps both of them were each others' 'justice' member in the journey. as Justice is about balance, seeing ...both sides but while Joker does learn and get to see Akechi's other side.... Akechi never sees Jokers, or at least, sees it far too late. I'm unsure how this concept changes or is enforced with Royal's version of the confidant and extra content though

The fact that Joker somehow grows "closer" to Akechi right before he gets his brains blown out... Yeah that about sums up my feelings on vanilla Akechi

Imagine Transformers The Movie working this way. Megatron: It’s over Prime. I’ve waited for an eternity for this. Optimus Prime: Never! *Kirk punches Megatron off an edge and the pistol he was holding going elsewhere* (Megatron is now Optimus Prime’s brother in arms)

I feel Akechi's vanilla social link is like... how it feels for the other characters when you're ranking them up. Akechi's the one who has to make the moves and choose what he wants to say carefully without putting you off entirely.

I've only played Royal, so I thought this video would be about Akechi telling the protagonist to his face that he hated him, which was quite the experience. I didn't know that the original game had a rank up immediately after Akechi "killed" the protagonist, lol.

In response to 4:25, I view it as Loki is his base persona since Akechi is a lying, manipulative snake at heart, while Robin Hood is absolutely the 'mask' and 'persona' he falsely dons when presenting himself to the Phantom Thieves. Just as Joker changes his persona based on who he's socially interacting with, so too does Akechi only choose to show the side of him he wants the Phantom Thieves to see, even if that side is just a fiction. They are the stories they tell themselves though, which ties into P5's protagonist characters being based on fairytales and P3 and P4's on mythological gods.

I've always had the mentality that Robin Hood was a result of Akechi's social link with Joker

I always took that one to mean because they're rivals, so the confidant/SL was different for them. It was built on genuine hostility from Akechi, and Joker understanding that they weren't friends. This was some sort of really high-stakes game and Akechi might've actually won if it wasn't for that pesky Futaba.

No joke, only after watching this video I realized that I've actually done 75 SL from start to end, my goodness

Nah, you make some pretty good points. Of course, it's clear that what ATLUS intended didn't work out since they changed it for Royal (probably didn't help that Akechi was popular as well). I don't mind either method, but I do think that, for Akechi, it makes more narrative sense for the rank-up to be automatic due to his antagonistic nature.

Do you think you will remake your P3 vids in the style of the P5 character analysis?

Character: I fucking loathe you! *I feel like we got closer*

“The worst Social Link Rank Up” Ooh! Are we talking about that moody cult foody from Persona 3 “Vanilla Akechi Rank 8” Oh yeah, this one’s automatic, isn’t it?

The Twins confirm that confidants are evolved from both sides. Think of it like quantum entanglement since the game has much more going on than it just being a "game". So not only is this theory viable but from the other side confidants are leveld up by both parties too. Either way the rank up makes sense.

Many different P3 social links come to mind as candidates for the series' worst ones. You're often expected to encourage a character's vices and misunderstandings to progress their link faster, yet by the end they thank you for pushing them to change for the better, the exact opposite of what you've likely done to get that far. Adding to that, a lot of their characterisation was both barebones and forgettable, not to mention some downright disturbing 'romance' options.

I think its completely plausible that it was akechi who ranked up there. Social links are the bonds between the protag and the character they are bonding with. It's not just how the protag feels towards the confidant. Let's look at the confidant abilities of your teammates for example. All of your teammates will have unique abilities as their confidant progresses however they all share the same two abilities, protect and second awakening. You cannot say that your confidant's feelings towards the players aren't taken into account during the confidants rank ups if when you rank them up high enough they are willing to take a hit for you strong enough to kill you (protect). Additionally second awakening indicates personal growth on the confidant's end, not the players. Both show that the confidants are more then just the players feelings towards the confidant but also the confidants feelings towards the player. It's not one-sided, it's a two way street further supported that originally confidants were planned to bring back the reverse function which was completely dependent on the social links feelings towards the player. Using this logic it makes sense akechi felt closer to you as hes about to kill you as hes reminisces in this scene over what could have been, just like in his rank 9 and thus the confidant ranked up at that moment. I also like to think joker was reminiscing over what could have been as well within the real world as he can logically deduce that akechi was coming soon when sae leaves.

Unless I'm just completely misremembering, the vanilla rank 1 of the Justice confidant doesn't include a flash-forward with Sae like it does in Royal. This would support the idea that it's Akechi's confidant, not Joker's. Also, Sae's comments in Royal imply that Joker is using the confidant for his benefit, whereas in vanilla only Akechi appears to be using it (after all, rank 1 is after Madarame's palace, and Akechi is almost certainly already aware of their identities from his time spent in that palace).

"Kasumi" rank up found it good, but i had a problem with how many times she appears in the story out of nowhere, like the developers having to remind you that she is important to the story. It feels like Kasumi is the cannon romance for joker because of it. I know cannon romance isnt a thing in Persona, but some confidents and the way the developers wrote just feels like it. Besides Kasumi in P5R we have Yukari in P3 that left me with this feeling too

As someone who only played royal it seems so wierd to me that they'd actually just off akechi where they do in vanilla, it just feels incomplete, and his return during the maruki arc was one of my favorite parts in the whole story... Sometimes it makes me wonder if i'd even still care about the franchise if i didnt start with royal 😅

If it truly was Akechi's confidant, then it would make sense why Akechi has Robin Hood. On the other hand, it doesn't explain why Joker still gets benefits from the Justice confidant in the Velvet Room.

Idk why but it’s so difficult to find any videos about p5 vanilla on youtube and ppl just kept saying how bad akechi is in there and i only know him from p5 royal

Do you have any plans for examining the story/interactions of Persona Q2?

Two things: I think this video greatly describes why I was like "Get fucked asshole!" When Akechi was shot in vanilla compared to I felt legit remorse for Akechi "dying" in royal. The second point is that I disagree on the notion of the fool not being explored as much compared to other Hashino games as P4 has Adachi who is not a wild card but does represent the squandered potential of the power of the fool in the form of M. Izanagi.

Strangely enough this is why I kinda dislike them turning his confidant into a normal one. He was always the second Trickster opposing us, so it made a lot more sense for him to forcibly start the interactions and Joker to be a bit of distant. They could have rewritten some of the auto scenes to have Akechi and Joker delve deeper into each other’s heads and give us context to Akechi’s thoughts, but we are not supposed to like him, let alone truly grasp his mind. Contrary to Adachi in P4 where he is a bored guy who is already acquainted to the MC and his family, so them spending time makes sense. I mean, more sense than bonding with a Fox.

I love this theory so much

As fascinating as I find this theory I disagree with it I do think it was joker’s rank that went up but not in the way we see it happen (I think that was for narrative purposes.) I think at rank one joker attempts to use akechi to follow police movements but after figuring out he has been to the metaverse joker tried to see if he could be a good phantom thief (rank 2-4ish) but after the meetup at the school when akechi was a guest speaker joker saw him more of a rival than an ally so it became a battle of wits between the great detective and the thieves (rank 5-7) when it comes to rank 8 I think that was real world joker moving up cause he had realized they had won the reason I think this is because the only way the PT’s plan could work is if sae showed akechi the phone the only way she would do that would be if joker could build a rank 10 bond with her in less than like 3 hours (assuming this cause sae said she only had a little while to talk with joker so don’t guess it would be longer) this would not only put his social stats that he had built to the test but it was something he had never done before (even the fastest growing confidant rank would require 10 days assuming the person was available everyday) so basically joker has to take the person who has spent the better part of a year chasing him and convince her not only was he not a bad guy but the detective she has been working with was the true culprit and that the only way to stop him was to show him that phone the weird rank up was joker realizing he had gotten through to sae and that akechi was in the meta verse killing a fake joker which was the finale of their rivalrous relationship. Tl;dr rank 8 was joker and the thieves winning over the gray detective using sae’s help

Technically, all confidants are all the other person growing closer to the MC, some are more them causing it however, rather then an act of the wild card to further both of them

Here a interesting fact: in Persona 4 Loki was actually of the ultimate persona of the Fools Arcana, Think of that what you will

Persona fans problems seem really strange to me... Just finished P5, and probably because it is my first persona game, I thought about it in a completely different way as a joke like: "Nice, I got shot! That is a deep bond we have" Guess I just don't separate the player from Joker and so it didn't even bother me that Joker didn't know exactly about what happened in that scene?

I gotta say Shinya's rank 8.5 (I think) when his mom comes and yells at the both of you over the fact that she believes we're a bad ibfluence.