Was Tommy Lee Caught Faking It?! 

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Hi Justin! Love the channel and have been following you guys since my little brother introduced me to the Darkness waaaay back in 2003. We first saw you guys at Manchester MEN arena in ‘04 and every chance we could go together to see you since. We last saw you in Bristol in December 2017. We were both huge fans! That was the last time we saw you together. This week, we commemorated 3 years since we lost him. He died of endocarditis, an infection of the heart muscles due to complications of a dental infection, aged 37. We miss him dearly. He would have loved this channel! My 13 year old son is now fast becoming a big fan, so in Greg’s honour, we will be seeing you guys on tour soon, and having the daddy of all curries at a local curry house beforehand as tribute to him. I am forever grateful to you guys for the music you made and the bond my brother and I had over it. Thank you so much. (And yeah, technical cock up I’d bet was to blame for the cymbal faux pas!)

He's just that good a drummer. The bronze alloy of cymbals magnetically reacts to Tommy Lee's aura.

It's likely high-hat "inserts" placed by an engineer as a click track for the entire band to keep tempo. It's damn near impossible to fake a live drum performance. I think he's playing his kit.

As a drummer I have to say, if you're going to mime playing the drums, a physical exertion of the instrument, you might as well just play the kit. We've used a click track and count-in meter to keep us dumbasses in line. Tommy's slow start is real and cannot be mimed.

From what I can see, As a drummer myself, the hi hat count in was prerecorded but the stuff after that is actually him cos his timing was a bit off after that as he was trying to find his way again so there’s nothing fake about his actual playing, it’s just the count in that I can see

Russian Circles is such a great band. Nice shirt Justin.

If you're counting in 8 it helps a lot if it's 4 clicks and then 4 of another sound. That way you don't have to guess if you heard the first click or not.. "Is this 7 or 8..." If you miss the first two clicks you'll still know where 1 is at when the 4 hi hats come in. I think it was supposed to be in his ears only..

I have watched 2 and a half hours of your videos continuously. It’s 2 am. I need to sleep but I’m scared to close my eyes incase you appear in my dreams. So glad I stumbled across this. Thank you zuckaburger and your weird algorithm. Keep being awesome ❤️

I look fwd to this daily

I think you nailed it with the hidden count in being audible as a fault of the sound team. It's possible that just one of them (Mick Vince or Nikki) has a specific preference to hear a hi hat count off vs. a standard click sound. Tommy probably plays along with is normally but was just a tad late this time so had to catch up. Faking drumming is really hard to do since everyone can visibly see what you're doy

Reading through all the various drummer related comments I have even more respect and admiration for what these guys have to deal with to keep time. You are the heartbeat of your respective bands 💛😊

A possible reason the audible hi-hat count is there is to be sure it's loud enough in the monitors of the rest of the band (Tommy's actual count may not always be). I had a situation using backing tracks once where I couldn't tell if the drummer hit the hats 3 or 4 times because of other noise, and I was starting the song (guitar)... I started playing and praying haha! I got lucky... but it was a lesson. Make that count loud enough!

I’m absolutely hooked on your videos Mr. Hawkins! Cheers from Denver, Colorado 🍻

Broken ribs hurt like all get out, but only when you breathe, and the first time you sneeze you think you're going to die of pain. Tommy Lee must be made of some strong stuff. Don't sneeze, Tommy!

It could be that only Tommy is playing to a click, and one or more of the members NEED to hear the count-in, but they don't actually want that hi-hats that loud in their monitor mix for the rest of the song. That and/or so the sound and lighting guy have a reliable audible count in. That's what I can come up with.

We missed the forest for the trees on this clip. Toms drum tech was switching out snare drums, while the recorded intro for the song plays. They just get the swap done. I've worked with the Crue's crew and they are real pros. I would not be surprised if the monitor tech punched the tracks into the monitors and side fills for the rest of the band until Tommy got in his pocket.

Fucking love this channel!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻

Sounds like someone in the FOH messed up and sent their backing track with the click count in to FOH. That doesn't mean that the drums are on tracks. His drums are totally live.

He’s on a click throughout the whole song cause of the pre recorded elements such as backing vocals, few guitar parts etc. Like you said, he just stumbled on the first count. No drummer could play a song bang on, the same exact way every night to match pre recorded drums (unless you’re a machine T1000 from Skynet) I’ve watched the whole video and he’s definitely playing live drums. There’s no pre recorded drums.

Russian Circles is one of my favourite bands! With an incredible drummer btw (Dave Turncrantz), who has a unique style.

Anybody that has ever made a music video knows you can't really "fake" playing the drums the way you can guitars and voice. You still got to hit things , cymbals are moving , etc. If you want to see what happens to the overall production when you get off the "click" so to speak, find the recent Sebastion Bach show, 18 and Life , where the bass amp goes down and they have to go into a stretch intro

My drum teacher when I was in 7th grade asked me who I thought was a great drummer. I said Tommy Lee and he laughed and said "Tommy Lee is not a drummer, he's a stick twirler.".

From what I understand the backing tracks are because Mick's condition has gotten so severe that he needs a little help. He's still doing most of the playing, but not all of it. That's the reason for the intro hats. Everyone is thinking it's Tommy messing up but it's not. They're being gracious to Mick. I hope the fans are gracious too.

Yet another interesting video, nice one Justin, 👍👍👍👊✌️.

The intro to the same song from a show from a few weeks earlier: you can hear two of the cue hi-hat hits, then Tommy joins in, and there's a little full-band shudder before they all lock in. Other clips have Tommy playing all four hits. It's got to be a cue meant for everyone in the band and maybe the dancers? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N7LklzgSE2M.html

As a sound engineer I’m also a bit stumped. If the count in is for the band’s benefit it wouldn’t sound like a hi-hat, it’d sound like a metronome. If I mix any band with a click of sorts being sent to in ear monitors I make sure that that input doesn’t even get added to my faders.. I don’t want to accidentally put up something people shouldn’t hear. It’s also smart to keep your fader count as low as possible.. id imagine that the sound person for this show will be mixing groups rather than individual faders (kick, snare, toms groups, cymbals/overhead group for example) so rather than having many faders to keep track of, they’ll be keeping track of maybe 5 faders instead of 15. Only thing I can think is there’s a pre-recorded element in case he’s unable to actually play. Miming is easier than actually performing. Not a fan of them but I know they’ve been “caught out” a few times lately. As much as I’m an advocate for proper live music, if this is what they want to do then go for it. The only fools here are the people paying these massive ticket prices to see them.

Are we sure the recorded hats are coming through the mains? I’ll bet the hats are on the backing track because someone on the stage isn’t wearing ears and the monitors are cranking. Some of the guys refuse to wear them, like Rick Savage from DL. Also Crue has dancers on stage.

It's really simple. There is a backing track with a count in. This allows the band to use time code to sync Video, Pyro, and Lighting aspects of the show. What you saw here was a pre-recorded count in that Tommy would have also played at the same time if he had been in position. The only people that are losing their minds over this are people that know nothing about modern live production techniques. He definitely was playing live.

I shot the original video in Kansas City, which was the fourth show of The Stadium Tour that I attended. I was fiddling with the zoom at the start, waiting for the song to actually begin, and didn't see what happened until later that night when I was uploading the video in my hotel room. While I thought it was quite strange, I didn't think too much of it considering how blatantly obvious it is that Crue has tapes running for backing vocals and guitar parts at the very least. Even at my very first show in New York, I knew those things were being piped in. Most of the time, Nikki is the only one half-pretending to sing backing vocals, many times not all that close to the actual mic, yet it still sounds like a chorus of voices coming through. That goes for when the girls are on stage and especially when they aren’t. I don’t think the girls are singing live either. But that’s not exactly what they’re there for, is it? There's several songs (“Looks That Kill” included) with a rhythm guitar audible under Mick Mars while he's playing a guitar solo. And at the Kansas City show, there was a moment that Nikki walked up to one of the mics on the catwalk and started shouting to the audience but the mic wasn't even on. I've seen other fans report seeing Nikki and Mick with their hands off their guitars while you can still hear bass/guitar parts being played. If you watch other videos of "Looks That Kill" from the tour, it seems like every single one starts with Vince Neil saying "who knows this song!?" in exactly the same voice/phrasing at exactly the same spot in the song. His actual vocals are so spotty and frequently off tempo that I don't really think his main vocals are piped but perhaps some parts are? It's hard to tell. As for Tommy, I think he is playing drums. Maybe there are drum parts on tape underneath what he's playing but he's clearly playing live. It's all a bit strange and I wasn't even trying to bring attention to it, hence me titling the video exactly the same way as all my other concert videos (including The Darkness!) rather than pointing out what happened right in the title. My guess, having seen this tour up close multiple times, is that a tape runs with backing vocals, rhythm guitar, and possibly (some/all?) bass underneath whatever is being played live. I would agree that there’s probably a four click count-in before the pre-recorded four hi-hat count-in that is taped. Looking forward to my next Darkness show where I don’t have to worry about what’s live and what’s not. 🤘

Tommy Lee is a household name of the drumming world. Fact not open for debate. Tommy and Neil Peart are the far most influential of the 80's era, by both drumming and showmanship. The best!

Russian Circles are an amazing band! I was lucky enough to catch them supporting Tool at Brixton, then a bit later playing in a tiny venue in Bristol with High on Fire and Taint. Any chance of talking about one of their pieces at some point please Justin?

hi hat click indicates the start of lights and pyro for each song... thanks @Justin for your channel... cheers!

As a drummer that has played to many backing tracks live, the hihat hits at the beginning are prerecorded to count the band into the track. Normally, the drummer has an 8 count, 4 clicks to start the drummer then 4 clicks to count in the band. Since everyone nowadays has an iPhone and RU-vid it's hard to hide these little mistakes. But I don't think these are fake drum tracks at all. Carry on

I having a blast watching these videos mate! Greetings!

I absolutely love this channel. Mr Hawkins is correct. I just done a video on this about 4 days ago and it kind of fills in the cracks of what mr hawkins is saying. because I'm an eighties drummer and I thought I'd do a video. When he rushes over to his kit, he's already getting a four count or whatever it is that they've rehearsed in their in-ear monitors. the count off on his hi-hat is nothing more than show all eighties drummers kicked songs off that way, as you probably know. They have that click in their ear for about two bars and everyone hears the same click. A video was posted on kiss, that allows you to hear the in ear monitor feed. Every song tells them something like, Strutter 1 2 3 4 1 2 all members are then in. It's an interesting video thank you for doing this. Oh hes playing drums. The monitor guy jumped the gun. Why through FOH though?

You can’t not be funny. Always charming, always positive. and ALWAYS effortlessly hilarious. I’m glad I don’t have to explain to anyone why I love this channel so much. It’s for me to enjoy on so many levels and just be with it for my own pleasure. And with you, and the Crue. Well not the Crue but the Crue’s crew.

Quality as per usual 👍

JHRA is my favorite RU-vid music analysis channel bar none !!!! Love the fact you're wearing such a great band T Shirt ... Russian Circles are epic.

I watch your videos because I love the reactions, the analysis and because you’re funny but I can’t lie, I also appreciate the fashion. 😎

The drum tech delays Tommy getting sat in for the pre recorded hat count in that the sound engineer triggers too soon and has also obviously put through the pa out instead of the monitor system so it's a whole bunch of errors that Tommy couldn't control but legend that he is, he deals with it and keeps the whole show on the road.

Detective Hawkins on the case 🚓 😁

My guess is, it’s Motley Crue being Motley Crue and being ridiculous. Something like, they’re playing to a click in the monitors, with a 4 beat count in. Except Mick can’t hear the click & wanted Tommy to count it in on the hi-hat so he could hear, which probably became an argument, because Tommy’s like “I’m not psychic, I can tell exactly when the click is going to start, and a 3 count, count in on the hi-hat will sound weird”. Then Mick said, “well, I can’t hear the click, so I’m starting late”. Tommy said, “if you wore the “in ear” monitors this wouldn’t be a problem”. Then Mick says, “the in ear’s make my ears hurt and I lose balance and fall over if I wear those”. Then Nikki said, “we can get you a Walker, if that helps keep you from falling over”. Then Vince asked everyone to calm down. More argument ensued, until the manager came in and came up with a compromise, of sampling a hi-hat count in, so Mick could hear it and Tommy didn’t have to try to execute it, matched up to the click and agreed he’d join in after the 1st hit, but they would also put it through the monitors and front of house, since people in the 1st 10 rows can hear Mick’s monitors, since he doesn’t use the in ear monitors, so that everyone has a 4 count, count in they could hear, that will line up with the click track that 3/4’s of the band has in their in their in ear monitors. The life of a rock manger, finding brilliant solutions to problems that should have never existed in the 1st place!

Love the channel man. Startling honesty about the symp limp, same as talking like you've a sore throat when you have a general malaise to make sure everyone knows you're sick.

Recent comments from Mick make this video relevant again and more than ever! Good work Justin. I caught that Rick Allen snipe too lol

I agree. I think it was just a cue to let him know when to start playing. He is definitely hitting the cymbols and drums. No way to 'fake" playing.the drums.

Speaking of coveted spots, I saw The Darkness in the early noughties headlining Dubai Desert Rock. My little brother and I - both kids at the time - managed to make it to the barrier ahead of your set. Then two women tapped us on the shoulder and asked if they could go at the barrier instead. I declined, and she protested that they’d been to the last 20 or so of your gigs and that they always watch you from the barrier. She even showed us all of your signatures tattooed down her upper arm. I caught someone’s sweat band at the end of the gig too. Thanks for the great show.

I’ve had that happen before where our click was piped through the mains by accident. It is surprisingly a super easy mistake to make. Our count off click was actually a stupid loud 4 count cowbell due to playing medleys and no clear start and stop points that we could always hear🤷‍♀️ that’s what that sounds like to me. Tommy is great so I’m sure that was just a count in click that should have just been in their ears👍🏼

ok...so the four count is for everyone including tommy so there is no question of when the actually song starts....(with a long back track a four count in the backing track for everyone to start with will always be on time!)

The fact we hear the first hi hat sounds slightly out of time indicated he was really playing.

That t-shirt, I once went to see Russian Circles and it took me a while to twig they are instrumental (they were supporting Tool)

Justin! A question for your next comment react video thing… as an aspiring young songwriter myself I was wondering if when you wrote I believe in a thing called love you knew it would be the hit it was? Or were there any other tracks on that album you thought were stronger initially? Ps was wondering if you could ever do a video on Ginger Wildheart? I know you did backing vocals on a couple wildhearts tracks and I think he’s one of the most underrated songwriters personally! Love the channel and can’t wait to see you with black stone cherry!

Not a fan of the Darkness but seen them many times supporting bands I want to see and at Download etc but love Justin’s perspective on music - subscribed today - keep up the good work.

Love Russian Circles! I agree, I think it's a soundy that had cues going through monitors and it went through front of house instead. OR Tommy Lee, I imagine would now be super hard of hearing, and maybe, it was just monitors but it was so loud it bled through to FOH? Who knows! Either way, he looked like an absolute powerhouse even recovering from four broken ribs and I think his playing was real. If I had four broken ribs and told to play (even well after the fact) I would immediatly assume the foetal position and cry my eyeballs out until I got home.....but I am not Tommy Lee and clearly I don't have his work ethic....I am just a mere mortal... Edit again!: here is what I think happened > monitors fed the click track to foldback > foldbac level was super loud > picked up by drum mics > went through FOH. Bam!

so Tommy was a little late for work...I like how open you are to music overall, I'm really enjoying your channel Justin...are there other Sargent House artists you like ?

I believe sound thought something wrong with the tech taking a bit and forced out the drum track then shut off? Idk! Going to see them saturday! Love Crue! Peace brother

I worked for a few days helping motley set up for their first reunion tour. They have backing tracks for guitars bass and drums, but not the vocals!

It's not the worst video of Tommy out there.

The acoustic you're on now sounds flatter than the Gibbo you played before. Pity, I love the opening tune sounding full n rich. Greetings from Poland, Justin mate.

i assume that any band with a lot (too much) pyro and all that.... that has explosions synced up perfectly, uses some sort of backing track. but fans don't want to see a stripped down realistic set from certain bands. i think that is one reason i really like Poison, they seem to not push their capabilities, (i dont mean that in a bad way) they just seem like they know what they are doing and not trying to overdo it. lol, not that the Crue are doing anything wrong, i think they've both done a fantastic job on this tour, of what ive seen on YT. (i wont be paying 4 grand to go see them. lol)

My guess would be that the audible hats are for the dancers, who probably don't have in-ear monitors. Given the camera's proximity to the stage, it's reasonable to assume that stage monitors pointed any direction aside from towards the band would be loud enough to be heard by the first few rows. The band is almost certainly using IEM's with clicks and cues.

As a drummer who's played with many click tracks and sequence live it's exactly what it looks like. There's a four count Tommy realizes that he's a little late getting on the drum throne and comes in a little late on the first downbeat, corrects it by the second downbeat and off you go. Nothing crazy here people. Just normal shit us drummers deal with when we play with machines live. I thought Tommy did a nice job of adjusting and getting it back on track quickly.

It is super easy to have your hi hats sound sampled and used as the 4 count in. That way, it sets all parties involved (lights, back track etc) in motion all at once. You will hear, he thought he’d make the last hi hat hit but he didn’t. He played the down beat as the 4th hi hat but recovered within the 2nd beat. No back track drummer at all.

Deliberately flown in by production to cover for TL who is late for his downbeat. The system here made available in case TL suddenly becomes unable to play, due to aggravated injury. The fact that he's playing at all is a testament to his commitment to the band and fans. To have some peace of mind should he again, aggravate his wound or need to take a breath, soft roll the beat, his ass is covered. Understandable.

There’s some earthing problems in your sound setup (at least at the beginning of the video). Great analysis videos !!! Keep on rocking Justin! Saludos desde Mallorca!

Tommy knew it was coming from how quickly he jumped to the kit. I actually think the backing track was for the guitars not the drums, guitars sound way to full for Nick to pull that off.. I agree with Hawkins, Tommy’s late kick proves his kit was Mic’d and he was playing for real.

Love the intensity of the intro, hauntingly beautiful 😂

Tommy is a fantastic drummer and has been since the 80s. This is all just part of the technology that makes shows look and sound their best. I’m sure there are extra guitar tracks in there that supplement what Mick is playing live. Probably some percussion, effects and backing vocals, too. It’s obvious Tommy is playing once the song starts.

"If you don't enjoy looking at each other." 😂

Nothing super wrong with tempo setting when the drummer is in pain.

Yeah Tommy definitely plays the song's live. But no doubt they do play to some color tracks, we just heard a count in for some odd reason. But he without a doubt doesn't mime....

Thanks Justin. Tommy is a huge 80’s Icon and I think most people tend to forget the dudes age ( which is clearly not as obvious as Vince’s age ) , He ploughed through the 80’s on cocaine not remembering anything , fucked Pam basically all through the nineties and somehow survived all the dumb shit he mentioned in his autobiography and is still playing like a beast behind the drums today …. Who gives a shit if there is a backing track to get a song started the dude is a legend . I find it’s normally those people that don’t understand music or the whole concept of what it takes to play live music . There will always be fuckups and no two shows are ever the same no matter how much you have amps , Guitars , pedals and front of house dialled in

lol @ evil laugh! One of upcoming video's should be a montage of all your opening jingles.

Hello!! It's a new month so this is the best time join my Patreon if you fancy it. There's so much stuff on there I can't be bothered to write it all out in one comment, but you can check it out here (I'd recommend the Personal Chat tier, it's the most fun one): www.patreon.com/jushawk

I have a sound company and there are a couple local bands that play to backing tracks. MOST pro bands do. It is not all instruments, its little things like keys, harmonies, rhythm guitar during a guitar solo. The band has to be disciplined to follow. You clearly hear keyboard in the background while the high hat clicks in which tells me there is a back track. That song has a lot of little things like "the clock strikes midnight BONG" and the group "HEYS" that are likley on the back track. Were not talking about Milly Vanilly here, it is subtle stuff.

I've witnessed worse out of Tommy Lee....without broken ribs. 😉😂🤣

well a couple of months later, turns out he is "kind of faking it", Mick Mars really spilled the beans!

I'm surprised by how many people are tricked into thinking this isn't live. That first snare hit is late, but you can hear Tommy correct it pretty quick. It's just a count in. They probably play with pre recorded stuff in their ears. Not that uncommon. I play in a band that does Thin Lizzy covers, our drummist uses a metronome for himself onstage to give him the correct tempo when he starts playing. It's not quite as fancy, but it's basically the same trick. We just take the stabilisers off after the metronome and do it all live dammit!!!! Just seems like a sound engineer had a fader up that should have been monitors/in ears only, but accidentally went out the front instead. Maybe that day they wired things a bit wrong? They do seem to use pre recorded backing vocals imo. Plausible mistake?? 🙏😁😎

Love your stuff mate :) genius, cheers from way off South Australia with our crew 🤘👍👍😆😁

Your intros are getting better, keep at it bud

Much respect for Representing Russian Circles ❤️ amazing act

Looks like he had a silent count-in before the audible one. Tommy starts toward the kit where an in-ear set of 4 hi-hat clicks are expected to be, followed by the 4 he would normally play along with. The person starting the count-in had not insured the band were all ready. Luckily, Tommy was close.

If I had to guess, The click was already going and the cymbal 4 count is just to let them(the band) when the song is actually starting.

The cruiser heard his footsteps coming closer and in a scared reaction started the song.

That was a lovely piece of music you played at the start there.

I saw the Soundgarden bassist continue to “play” even while he was literally destroying his instrument. I was suspicious the whole set because his fingers never matched the bass notes or even the bass kick drum.

"Maybe one of the crew... Not the Crüe, but the Crüe's crew" idk why I had to see this typed out but it tickled me

the click was probably going already and the 4 pre recorded hats are to indicate that the song is going to start because all the pyro and effects will happen on certain bars and in order for the band to be in sync they have to start on the correct bar not before or after so the 4 hat count in is to say "this is where it starts!" so all the pre engineered effects and props are in sync with when the band starts.

Justin! Love your view of the world and music in general. Have you ever been exposed to the band Danava in some way or form?

It's funny what you said about limping to let people know you're struggling (for attention!). I think people inherently do that, last time I had a broken rib I remember doing all the gestures because you want people to realise in case that's the one day someone decides to tackle you for an impromptu friendly wrestling match. It's a universal "go easy on me" sign.

The four count was prerecorded, then he is playing to a click track. Some effects were prerecorded, backing vocals... But, Tommy is playing.

it's audible perhaps because the guys at the front or other in ears dont have the drums or cybals very loud, and the track cymbal count in is controlable in monitors

Have no problem with backing tracks and yes it does look like it's the count in. They could also use a backing for rhythm guitar during the lead and various other sounds to make it sound fuller. Remember when they recorded the music there are probably 4 guitar tracks.

Don't know but it probably is pre-recorded he's playing along with just like the bass vocals of the singer that's the way it is

When he actually starts playing the hi hat is a little louder than the count in. He's definitely playing. That's most likely a count in/metronome use.

As long as you can't hear Vince... just kidding

This is the best audio I've heard yet for this incident. The prerecorded high hats and Tommy's live ones do actually sound a bit different. It seems like a monitor mix count in but why that went to front of house is beyond me.

Good day to you kind Sir, I was perusing the interweb and found a nugget of info that Mudvayne have reunited and are out on tour, quite marvellous. I am mentioning this as during a live performance of song called "Not Falling", Chad, the singer, didn't take the songs advice at face value and he face planted off the stage mid verse. Worth a look just for the irony. He carried on the gig unhurt.

I agree - thinking those hat’s weren’t supposed to be in the PA at all. Coordinating all of that, perhaps it’s four clicks to set tempo, then 4 hats to cue the band. And frankly with four broken ribs, choose your outcome: possible help from a drum track or refunded ticket.

Because there’s a drone sound playing the four count is for them to all start. The high hat after the four was louder