I didn't mention connections to Jung and his view of water and it being the most common symbol of the unconscious ("Sea of Souls" in Persona), nor did I mention his thoughts on the Cosmic Egg, just because Jung is important to the ENTIRE series. Persona 3 isn't unique in using Jung's ideas vs. its use of Greek mythos/occult and Christian theming IS something that differentiates it from the rest of the games. Because of this, the Jung connections didn't serve my theory well (why water association is important to P3 in particular)! Also I've been working on this video for the past 3 weeks, so apologies that things I say like "the interview from a *week* ago," doesn't exactly hold up anymore lol. These interviews came out ~3 weeks ago at this point. Thanks for bearing with me! But yeah, let me know your own theories or thoughts about Persona 3 Reload! **FOLLOW-UP// PART 2 TO MY THEORY: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8rmyv7pJnUY.html 🎮TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/ladyvirgilia 🐤TWITTER: @VirgiliaLady twitter.com/VirgiliaLady 🌟PATREON: www.patreon.com/LadyVirgilia GENSHIN CHANNEL~ ru-vid.com
I said this to my Christianity Professor friend who loves Jung he was not as big on this, but there is the connection between Water and Freud's Death Instinct (Dubbed sometimes as Thanatos, which is also Makoto Yuki's second persona). What I learned from my class on Freud last quarter was that Freud had a hydraulic analogy for his pleasure principle. When "pressure" stops to the system one ceases to be and "returns to the origin" to not go into spoilers I will leave it there. Also the connection you make to Baptism, which is in a way a form of rebirth is big for Jung. Psychological transformation is the process of having multiple rebirths as one gets transformed. The symbolism of Death is in itself a form of psychological transformation. Especially, in collectivist Japanese Society according to the Jungian analyst Hayao Kawai, the founder of Jungian/Analytical Psychology in Japan (And maybe the reason the Persona series exists) stated that the weak egos of Japanese people will allow them to sometimes experience "ego death". Kawai states that one's saying they want to die does not necessarily mean they want to actually do it. The analyst should many times allow them to go through with this thought, which will in Kawai's eyes lead to a source of psychological rebirth. This is why the Evoker works very well because summoning through opening up the Ego to contact aspects of the collective unconscious (The Sea of Souls, back to the water analogy). They are in a sense constantly going through a process of psychological rebirth every time they use their evoker. Nonetheless, this does not take away from Japan's still massive suicide epidemic which is why one should still have caution when one has s8icidal intent.
yeah i was kinda surprised considering i think reload is mostly doing a literal interpretation of the sea of unconscius. also, one god that jung mentioned as being the perfect representation of the unconscious is the sea god, Proteus. a shapeshifter, which is a good reflection of the protagonist. shame they never used him in persona
I just want to say that the marketing strategy of releasing new info on full moons is actually SO COOL. I've actually been looking at the moon every night lately and thinking to myself "It's coming." P3R marketing really makes you FEEL a member of SEES
Oh I’m so hyped for this. Persona 3’s circle symbolism and how it connected the moon, the headphones/evokers, “circle of life”, etc. was very obvious to me. But I never noticed the water symbolism, but it fits well with the previous themes as well.
If they go this direction I could see them adding a psuedo SL for Elizabeth that ranks up when you go on dates with her, and if you do them all you get the February story arc.
idk if or how they would change anything about the ending. i do think some type of february thing being added is more than a possibility. they specifically chose 3/5 as the day they'd meet again because they knew they wouldn't *immediately* forget everything after eliminating the dark hour. they could easily shove some type of plot point in between.
I was already hyped for Reload, and still will be even if it is just a 1:1 remake of the original game. But watching this just has me even more hyped for the possibilities. Even imagining what they could *potentially* do is so exciting! I love the idea of Elizabeth having a bigger role in the overall story, or perhaps some sort of New Game+ changes. No doubt that regardless of what path they take, they are breathing new life into a classic story, and I am SO here for it.
There are SO many hints to indicate that Makoto is gonna get revived in an extra story, I don't know how people aren't noticing them. They're even in the lyrics AND in the Latin words of the original trailer.
@@tsunox1279 you only think it doesnt cuz people (like in the vid) say it doesnt. It does. If the message of the game is about living your life to the fullest (because everyone dies), what is it saying if you have a second chance at life? Even in the video itself I didn't understand what she was trying to say when she was saying it could still work within the themes, because to me she basically just explained how it would break the themes.
Makoto being saved wouldnt undo the theme of P3 like ppl have whined about for over a decade, bc the point of it wasnt just, “death is inevitable, you must accept,” it was also, “life is beautiful so appreciate it before death comes for you.” Makoto learned to care about the world around him and thats why he made that sacrifice. But how is that fair for one kid to sacrifice himself to eternal stasis to stop a god from destroying the world. Why cant those he bonded with work to change his fate? Especially ELIZABETH!! Like his sacrifice would never be pointless if undone, especially because Elizabeth might just take his place!!! Why wouldnt she if that was the only way!?
It will still ruin the theming of P3. The point of P3 is to make the most of life because you will one day die. Its not about being edgy and just accepting death, its meant to be uplifting. Its why its so hard to max out all the slinks in the game, because its also about how you dont necessarily have the time to do everything in your life and instead you should do the things you enjoy and make you happy. Unfortunately, theyre only making the game easier judging from interviews and if he is revived I dont see what the message of the game would be? It would go from 'make the most of your life and do the things you love' to 'oh you can do everything you want and cheat death too ig lol'
@@louish5068you really think the message would be “you can cheat death lol?” The meaning doesn’t disappear just because the dude comes back to life. The message is still there. You need to keep in mind that it’s a video game franchise and they set up a plot like for elizabeth to find a way to bring him back that hasn’t been concluded yet.
@@unoriginalyoutubename8761 what could the message possibly be though? Just more power of friendship? I think it will be a cool(ish) story, dont get me wrong. But I think I would rather take the themes being kept in tact over linking it to the p4 arena games.
@louish5068 if they take the roundabout way of changing rhe ending due to liz searching for answers to save makoto, its not undoing the them if anything, she was moved so much by the protag that she spent years searching for a way to save him. If the theory that liz sets up the events of p4 and p5 are true it makes even more sense with the themes of those games, p3 was more about the acceptance that death will come it was much darker in universe that nyx and humanity were separated and yearn to be united which is why the peoples collective concious created erebus, it calls for nyx. Makoto only keeps erebus from nyx, not the other way around, and maybe im misremembering, but the seal wont last forever. Saving makoto would honestly bring the game full circle for me, i feel like the fan base right now is literally the members of sees in the answer arguing if we should go back in time, some say yes, some say no, some are conflicted
@@louish5068 nah you literally completely missed what i said bc you basically regurgitated the reasoning I already criticized. Such a shallow perception of P3.
I love all your analysis and speculations regarding persona 3 reload, and you really managed to give a highly satisfactory explanation of the water theme esthetic, I wouldn't be surprised if at least several of your predictions come true, at least I hope so, and the truth is, I wouldn't mind if they did something similar at the end of p5 royale, although the theory of Elizabeth sacrificing herself also sounds quite plausible, anyway good video ❤
Interesting theory! I actually think Atlus is being transparent in how theyve said it is an faithfully retelling so I don’t think plot changes will occur, but the deepening refers to exploring underutilized characters (Strega,Shinji, Ryoji) and plot lore like the Nyx stuff. I think they are aware, more than anything, that P3 is beloved for its OG ending and won’t alter it, but possibly make it more heartbreaking
Its good to be faithful to the original in some ways. Keep in mind some remakes, despite being good, have several questionable changes to the main narrative, leading to backlash. Atlus makes the right choice in that area, though its good to at least improve some underutilized parts. Persona 3 was initially released as an experimental game, the beginning of the neo generation narratives, which was why its messy at some areas.
Wait, your birthday is the same as P3's first day of school? That's amazing! Also by the way, Gekkoukan means "Moonlight". Every Persona high-school's name is ridiculously unsubtle if you know Japanese. (P4 = "myriad gods", P5 = "prisoner"... I need to play 1 and 2.) I discovered Orphic mystery cults when playing Hades... where it's implied they started because Zagreus and Dionisius pranked Orpheus with a fake origin story and Orpheus got WAY too into it. Seeing them side-by-side, Kenji's SL dialogue is mostly the same but it's been cleaned up a little, and I like it so far. Interesting note: in Japanese, the Kanji used for "month" means "moon". A lot of cultures refer to months as "moons" but it's pretty explicitly in Japan. I love how the clock symbolism continues into Persona Q. I'm biased but in my high school English classes we studied a LOT of texts that used clock symbolism, and very often it was associated with death and "memento mori". (Since time inevitably kills every living thing) Which... yeah, that's very P3. The backlash is still funny to me, because up until recently people HATED The Answer and many were actually happy Portable excluded it. It might be fun to research exactly WHY opinions on it did such a 180 recently. I do remember the Nyx backstory stuff, but my main takeaway at the time was "lol they're implying Nyx killed the dinosaurs". Also thanks for shouting out Nenilein, I've never seen her videos but they look interesting. When you said "the only way to get a Plume of Dusk" I was literally about to type "unless you're playing on Easy Mode" and you'd already covered that lol. I got emotional at your Elizabeth plot idea. As someone who really likes her, I feel like it'd be a fitting thing for her to do, I wouldn't mind her sacrificing herself like that. And yeah, the whole setup in P4G and Arena that hasn't gone anywhere yet makes me wonder. This video was worth the wait, and I look forward to more of what P3Re brings.
Oh my god, thank you for this. When I heard they weren't including The Answer, I immediately started suspecting time shenanigans, and this video has definitely strengthened those suspicions. I am so hyped for this game, can't wait to see what they do
Every time I watch one of your videos I learn so much! I definitely think you're on to something here. I could totally see P3R being a "New game plus" of P3. And seeing as Elizabeth is one of my favourite characters, if she was involved in the new story, that would be amazing too
Okay even though I'm not entirely convinced yet this is such a cool theory and as a BIG fan of what Square has done with FF7R I can't lie seeing something similar happen to another one of my favorite games of all time is incredibly exciting! Really awesome work dude!
Death is ineluctable, for each and everyone. We are all going to die, and no one is coming back from it (even if there is an afterlife, there doesn't seem to be visits from beyond the grave (no credible testimony thereof, at least). Those two facts, that death is necessary (not in a moral sense but in terms of causality) and final are not only part of our human condition but intrisically part of life itself. What seems to set us apart is that we are conscious of that fate. Persona 3 had such an impact on me because it was a story about that, stated clearly from the opening: "memento mori" (keep death in mind) and "cogito ergo sum" (I think therefore I am). No matter how sad I was at the end of the game, the ending was honest, it was thematically consistent, it was good. As far as I am concerned, it is art at its best: giving us a narrative framing to shed a new light on our condition. If P3reload ends on the protagonist's resurrection, maybe it will be a good story, but it will juste be one more story that claims to be about death yet refuses to face the reality of it. It may be a good story, but it won't be as meaningful.
This video was incredible. I actually teared up thinking about SEES potentially remembering in february and living to the fullest until the end. If Elizabeth completes her quest by sacrificing herself too...
I think that we are going to have a new true ending where the Protagonist lives as well. The signs cannot be ignored and I really liked your theory on how this could all work. It also actually would give some sense of closure for the Persona 3 series and help the Persona franchise move on to future titles such as Persona 6.
I think the main reason we haven't seen another Arena is not because they were capitalizing on p5 hype, but because Arc System Works has their hands full with projects as is (Guilty Gear Strive, Dragonball Fighterz, Under night, Granblue Fantasy Versus, DNF Duel, etc.)
Imagine if the story plot of this is that we play the same story but through Elizabeth's perception where she watches the protagonist's journey and forms her own fool's journey since she's still starting with the fool arcana and needs to probably grow in order to attain the solution. With her being inexperienced she could do what Margeret did with the vision doors where she not only replays battle memories but even various moments of the old game hence "reload" like recalling or replaying for us. She may then cause some intervention which somehow shows the new special events or scenes promised to us by the developers. - Somehow started cooking this idea while watching it a month later....
Liz's story in arena and in the answer did mention that changing the hearts of the masses would weaken Erebus. so there is a good chance that Liz uses the Akashic records (going back in time) to use her newly found knowledge of what the thieves were doing (which would let her not be affected by yabadabadoo's thing) which would aid in her fools journey. exactly how would she do it? I'm not sure but all I know is that details like that can't just be overlooked
even though the theory is logical, it might take too much time and much more difficulty to pull off. At the same time, the Inaba Investigation Team and Phantom Thieves did a favour to SEES in somewhat preventing/delaying certain negative aspects of humanity's collective cognition from going too far. Even though each neo generation team went through different thematic cores of psychology; death, truth, rebellion, they are interconnected in different ways. At the same time, the thought of mass cognition research, even remnants igniting battles gave me the shivers. Royal and Strikers already elevated the possibility and dangers of individual researchers using their own means to reach and control the collective cognition. In which the dangers the future generation teams after the Phantom Thieves might be even worse with that possibility.
@@vanessachowjiaying4423i haven't played p3 but if i remember correctly nix was awoken because people just wanted to die and was invincible because of how strong that emotion was? Would it be possible to temporarily overwrite the majorities cognition of life, beat nix, and then return it to normal?
It is wild to me just how much fascinating lore is Japan-exclusive for the Persona franchise. I barely knew what Plumes of Dusk were before recently playing Persona 4 Arena, and now Im learning the community knew about them since 2006 as a direct result of Nyx being a planet!? Persona's world is so fascinating in so many ways and I just wish more of this information was more accessible. Also, if we get a February, I hope either Aigis or Elizabeth take the mantle of protagonist/leader if there's gameplay sections!! I love them and they've had the Fool Arcana in P4A/U so it's not too crazy to think of.
I think this theory will make a splash. Very nice to have this video to wet our appetite and tide us over until the next information comes. I’m sure some other information will bubble up over time before the next wave, but we will just have to sea how it goes.
I could definitely see everything with Elizabeth happening. If they do at least some what ypu brought up then they would squeeze a social link in for her like Marie in Persona 4 Golden for example and wether or not you get the extra month or whatever you do will hinge on a maxed social link with Elizabeth and possibly even Ryoji. Could totally see it happening and would genuinely love it.
Man, Persona 3 is such a fucking good game. Even after all these years I'm still learning more about it. Overall, I am still kinda mixed about this "theory"(?) (if you can even call it that?). On the one hand, your reasonings do make a lot of sense, and they do get me very hyped to see if Atlus would dare to make such drastic changes to the story. If they do go through it it then holy shit that is so chad. On the other hand, by introducing alternate timelines (and potentially universes), you're opening a cosmically-sized can of worms. Not only is it hard to get consistent, it's scaling the story to such a great degree that it might turn off the general playerbase. I'm confident that large portion of Persona fans are just fans of Persona 5 who has no interest in the series as a whole. While that shouldn't stop Atlus from attracting people to other entries, it is simply risky. The story of these games would be so convoluted and spread out, it's hard to keep up. If this plan does not work out, I can hardly see them having this freedom of storytelling again. Still, I am Team Believe. The trend of multiple timelines and/or universes has recently been represented ubiquitously in mainstream media, most notably in the MCU (and potentially in Attack on Titan as well). That's why I can honestly see this hypothesis be successful in evolving Persona as a game series. My wallet, nevertheless, is still in mortal danger lmao.
AAAHHHG!! This was another great analysis video on p3, thank u! I fucking love when games and media have so many layers to them like this!! This is just one of those games where you can revisit and still find some details you didn't get the first time and aughh it's so good! Loved your analysis and interpretation on the whole water theme/symbolism they've been using!
On the topic of Chidori's death in FES, wasn't it retconned in P4 Arena Ultimax? I remember Junpei speaking about her as if she's still alive and they are together. That makes me think the possibilty to save her like in Portable will be available
Hear me out: P3, Blue, leaning full into Water for the reasons stated here. P4, Yellow; maybe a stretch but the associations with weather, fog, perception COULD be associated with air. P5, Red; another stretch, but the whole Revolt, Rebellion theme could be construed as something fiery. The last big basic color Persona has yet to touch is Green. Maybe some kind of Earth theme? 👀👀👀 This is wild speculation, obviously.
You got it completely right, SMT is a series that constantly references occultism, you should search up the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram and the Golden Dawn Qabbalah to see the links. Water is linked to the moon via Gabriel, the sun to air via Raphael, fire to mercury via Micheal (though tbh Persona 5 really didn’t have a Mercury theme like Persona 3 had a moon theme and 4 a sun theme) and earth to the Abyss via Uriel
Adding on to the "Reload might have Liz doing time fuckery" theory, in P3D it's quite obvious that Liz, (er, Elle-P) is from the future and is already on her journey based on a couple of things she mentions. Even if P3D isn't canon, it's worth noting that Wada's team has already dabbled with the idea of Liz messing with time to see the protagonist again.
My honest prediction when it comes to the "resurrection scenario" is that if they bring MC back to life... it won't be as the MC we knew him as. Think about it, only MC's soul remains. His body was cremated after all, there's nothing for his soul to go back to. And as far as Persona lore goes (that I know of), a soul isn't the same as a Shadow, so he cannot pull a Teddie and simply grow a body out of sheer will. Basically, I'm talking about the "Identity/Character Death" route here, just like a certain girl in the story goes through (under the right conditions). The MC the rest of SEES knew is gone for good, "Makoto Yuki" had his chance and saw it to its end. Making MC be reborn as a completely different person with no memories of his past life, crossing paths with SEES without them ever knowing, and living a fulfilled, peaceful life for a whole 80-something years would be my personal way to go. It doesn't undo his sacrifice, keeps the themes of living to the fullest within the life you're given and MC gets a chance to live the longer life he couldn't before. A literal "Death and Rebirth", just like the Death Arcana.
Ngl, I feel like I'm setting myself up for disappointment by believing these hints. Hopefully I'm wrong, because I really want to see stuff like Elizabeth's journey conclusion.
If Wada and team is satisfied with the game, so does me. No need any fancy alter timeline or massive story change, just adding more memorable times together (👀 shinji and ken👀) and a nice parting for MC would be more than enough
Even the stairs leading to next floor in Tartarus have texture that makes it look like they're underwater. It's impossible to ignore these recurring themes, as you mentioned.
whatever they do, im so damn excited for this game. thank you for this video, for going through all the themes and linking them to the game so well. I'm not sure i 100% buy into the theories yet, cause them doing that would be the best possible direction they can go for me, and i wanna lower my expectations lol
I like the idea of going back in time in a New Game+ manner, but I thought of something more like Atlus releasing a "Persona 3 Reload Royal/Definitive Edition Plus & Knuckles" where we'd get the full experience and finally get the MC to live. Figure this: in this hypothetical future game, we'd have FeMC as a new party member, introduced maybe as a MC's lost sister or something like that. She would also be a wild card, so we'd have two in the party. By the end of the game, if you get some requisites done, you'd get the 3rd semester shenanigans and you'd find out that the FeMC is actually there because of Elizabeth and Theodore trying to free their guests (she would be revealed to be from another timeline, not MC's actual sister). There would be a battle between the MCs so one of them could be freed, and Elizabeth would fight alongside you, while Theodore would be a boss alongside the FeMC. After that, the FeMC would choose by her own will to become the seal, because she values all the friends she's made and wants the MC to live on. Or something along those lines (sorry, my English is not all that great)
i honestly think that your theory is totally correct with the whole 'jesus of nazareth' kinda vibe they gave the mc it kind of fits that we've had like 2-3 main line persona games release since his death, sorta like the 3 days before jesus rose again that combined with the symbolism of water; if they do have elizabeth trying to bring him back (or at least let him enjoy his last months with his friends who remember this time) i think that it would make perfect sense to incorporate drinking from the pool of memory rather than forgetfulness in the afterlife and representing that as him and his friends re-enacting and going through the events of p3 again in persona 3 reload here's to hoping p3r is as good as the original :D
After seeing this video it definitely backed a few theories I’ve had about the general lore of persona 3, Primarily being the message of “Time continues forward even if one were to fall.” One theory being the resurrection of the mc, now some would say that he shouldn’t return or if he did the whole message of the game would be ruined entirely and to that I say not really, as you stated he himself is symbolized as the embodiment of the savior or the one who sacrificed himself to save humanity this shares in ties with Jesus Christ himself for he also sacrificed himself for humanity, along with that he was stated to be resurrected which could also be the case for mc as well via Elizabeth or something else a long the lines of possibility which would make sense in the grand scheme of the game overall. But I indeed loved your theory on the subject as it answered some questions of mine along with supported some speculations I had.
Damn... And here I thought I was overthinking P3 symbolism / over-interpreting Atlus trailers and interviews. You got me beaten by a mile. I really like your theory though, at least the part where the whole cast, with Elizabeth help, gets a shot at getting their memories back before MC's death. On a more pragmatic and somewhat cynical note, I think the FEMC reload isn't dead yet, but might become a DLC or a full game on its own, depending on P3 reload sales.
It could be that Reload is Elizabeth rewinding time to experience makoto’s journey again, but it always ends the same way. Only way I see them doing a new semester is through somebody else in the story, maybe even Liz herself. Maybe have someone else replace him as the seal do as not to invalidate the sacrifice entirely, but they’re gonna need to be on their A game to make that work and I wouldn’t blame them for just playing it straight.
This video is very well made, but it has me worried they’re actually going to keep Makoto alive in the end. I think the ending was beautiful and had room for interpretation, and I didn’t like how the answer or arena imply he can be brought back, since I think having him die for his friends made the ending satisfying already. I really hope they don’t change the ending
I only recently got the chance to play any version of P3 with the P3P release on modern consoles. I played the modern Persona games in reverse order, so 3 is definitely the one I have the least amount of experience and knowledge with. But I've greatly enjoyed getting to watch your lore videos for P5/R and 3, they've helped me appreciate things better since I don't think the P3P experience was the best one. Ever since I learned what the P3 Protag's fate was from another video a while back, I was hoping there might be a way to resurrect him in the future. I understand the thematic weight and significance of what happened, but I think that a slightly altered story in which his bonds were so strong as to change fate itself (be it the bonds directly or Elizabeth's intervention due to her bond with him) could make for an extremely compelling story.
I was late to the dancing party games, but the 4 iteration gave me pause for hope. While there are no names dropped for who she wants to save (for the p4 cast), fans know who exactly it is, and why there is still a lingering hope, even now. She is willing to go far, and I am so very interested to see where her journey leads. Also, I never did dig into the translations of the intro video, fascinating quote. Thanks!
Omg the 3 days later comment….instead of it being 3 days later maybe his resurrection is 3 games later😮 i really love this content you put out. Just this is awesome
As soon as I heard about reload I actually thought of elizabeth and Arena. it would finish the story beautifully and give closure to those that also play arena too. Though originally I thought it was more likely to be a spin off game with elizabeth instead of an possible alt ending.
This might not be a thematic thing and is relatively light evidence compared to what’s in the video, but one thing I want to remember is that they’re revealing new info at every full moon at least for the rest of 2023. That’s at least 7 new content drops ignoring any special events like Gamescom or the Game Awards, interviews, or maybe just random trailer drops. If this were JUST a remake of P3 with nothing more than updated gameplay and visuals like a standard remake, that’s way more content drops than we should need, especially when the game is at least 6 months out. It doesn’t exactly line up with the idea of this video, but it certainly helps the idea that there’s more to Reload than we think.
26:40 I think that might be implying that they’re considering remakes of 1 &2. Both were highly voted in the polls (2 actually tying with 3), and describing it as a challenge that would effect things going forward feels like they might also be alluding to essentially doing what P3RE is again. Also, of course P1-2 are supposedly going to appear in a new persona game along with 3-5, so that also might be alluding to it as well. Crackpot theory, that I hope isn’t false lol
oh my god thank you for this video, i always love predictive analysis like this! your ideas are complicated but it delivered well and easy to understand! cant wait to see if the game aligned with this. also cant wait for one day if p1 & p2 remakes come, i want to hear all of your analysis again!
I might totally be reaching here, but what I also found interesting is that the tides that specifically occur only during Full Moons (and New moons) are coincidentally called Spring tides. Although the "Spring" doesn't exactly refer to the season. Rather, it's the rise and forth action of 'springing', since the Spring Tides occuring on the Full Moons are the only times of the month that the tides reaches its maximum range, meaning water level rises and falls to the greatest extent from the mean tide level. This could allude to the in-game Full Moon being when shadows are the most active and when the major turn of events happen, just like how the Full Moon's Spring Tides are more dangerous and active as well. And I guess we also know how Spring is an important theme for the game as well. Game starts in Spring with the first Full Moon being when MC awakens on April 9th, which is also during the first Spring Tide of the Spring season, which Spring itself symbolizes new start and rebirth. And of course the usual multiple symbolism attached to water, such as the natural cycle or flow of the passage of time and life, game's location set on Tatsumi Port Island/Seaside Iwatodai, Sea of Souls, Drowning in Depression, etc. Heck, even the game opens up by showing Yukari using the sound of running water to drown out or control her extreme fear of death as she struggles to use the evoker. The more I think about it, the more I see how water fits perfectly with Persona 3.
I always thought about Liz in Arena was going to save P3MC. I just didn’t think we’d ever see it. So if it does occur in Reload. I’m… nervous about how they’d pull it off in a satisfactory manner. I definitely can’t think of anything. Here’s hoping for a fun game nonetheless 😌
It seems each persona has it's own element, 3 being trapped in the abyss of the sea, persona 4 being lost in white noise and P5 being lost amongst endless crowds and subways.
My crackpot theory relating to P3R is that Metaphor: Re Fantazio is going to have some lore connection to the Persona universe since Re Fantazio seems to be playing with the idea of a fantasy mirror world vs the real world. Take all of what I say with like a heaping pile of salt, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I remember seeing a post with some promotional material for Re Fantazio featuring a blue tea set and Le Grimoire (the book the Velvet Attendants carry with them) placed inconspicuously off to the side. Where the connection between these IP's really comes into play though is with the protagonist, who is awfully reminiscent of our dear blue haired boy from Persona 3, even if they aren't exactly the same. Maybe his appearance changes a bit when he "crosses over" at the end of P3R. And perhaps the ending of Re Fantazio will have our protag-kun leaving once again to return to the world he came from. Who knows? I don't know.
Your thoughts caused me to have thoughts!!! Im wondering if the *entirity* of reload is elizabeth reloading persona 3 in an effort towards resurrection rather than just the potential third semester spot. I also think it would be cool, if we play as protag in the third semester, that we have an ally in femc who is trapped in the same abyss/tartarus that mc is. Maybe if SEES forgetting their time together is the same as the originals, minako will be our ally during the dark hour since no one else will have access to it if they forgot. Im also just a big minako truther and i miss my girl
Ah I got talking about femc and missed my original point - tldr I think it would be cool if all of reload was, without our knowledge, Elizabeth's "reset" of that year but something goes wrong and the consequences will occur in the third semester arc.
I'm not convinced this is the case, but I do see a chance for it. Atlus already pulled something kinda reminiscent with P5, in terms of marketing. It was kind of a big deal with the game that they were very upfront about enforcing that streamers and the like not to show past a certain point in the story. And they certainly didn't advertise the twists themselves, either. It could have just been for monetary value, but I feel like there's a certain pride behind it. They were really proud of it, and didn't want it to get ruined. And the thing is, it worked for me. Even though I followed a lot of spoilery content about the game. And since I didn't have a Playstation-so I was waiting for RPCS3 to make it playable-I had a lot of time to get spoiled. And boy was I impressed by some of the creative decisions. Most of all: pancakes. There's just something special about it. They made Akechi so obviously suspicious in our eyes, so it was just annoying that the PT didn't realize who he is. And then boom, big reveal, they knew all along. It's not just that Akechi was fooled. _We_ were fooled. The players themselves got a rug pulled out from under them. And _that's_ where I can see a sort of similarity with your theory. Atlus downplaying the content available in P3R - even confirming "missing" expected features. ~ Atlus being forceful about not showing later parts of the story. "Oh shit, the Phantom Thieves knew all along!" ~ "Oh shit, we were playing a sequel all along!"
The clues and facts you've laid out do hold up, and the case you've made is compelling. I know you try your best to not let your theory be skewed with bias, and just approach it from the facts you've gathered. I'm sorry. Despite logic telling me that your theory does have basis, and might even be likely, I cannot bring myself to say that I'm sold on it. The original ending, with the protagonist being willing to give his own life to secure that of his friends', is precious to me, speaking as a player and as a fledging writer. This story told by the game has impacted me so much, and shaped how I view the topic of death and nihilism. Any attempts by various media to discuss how an individual faces death has always fallen flat for me; many of them felt like they were just vomiting up what others have already done before them, and there was never a definite answer. But Persona 3 finally gave me an answer, one that I've held close to my heart ever since. I am obviously speaking with bias right now, considering that the only reason I can't agree with you is my emotional attachment to the original ending. If things *do* turn out as you've predicted and Reload has this different ending... Well, I wouldn't say I'd be outraged and go onto forums to screech about how Persona 3 has been "ruined forever". I don't really know how I'd even react, or what emotions I'd experience, in all honesty. Only thing I *do* know is that I'd wish the ending stayed the same, instead of us getting... this. *Final verdict: I don't agree with your idea; not because it has flimsy logic, but just out of personal preference.* If you do read this, thank you for taking your time to do so.
I'm sold! It's COMPELLING! Thank you very much for your videos, I love them. Your analysis and insight on the mythology the games are inspired on is so fascinating. Throughout the video, there were these key moments where it just CLICKED to me what you were going at and I was like... HOOOOLY SHIIT!!! Hahahahahahaha. Love your content!. I also love your Trails videos, too, btw. Looking forward for what's to come!
I completely forgot about Elizabeth’s goals in P4A until you mentioned it haha. Also, I’m not too sure how I feel about them changing certain moments of P3’s story. A part of me thinks it sounds cool and would like to experience the changes, but another part of me thinks P3’s story is great as it is. Like you said, if this is the route they’re taking, they might have a moment or something in the game that will trigger these changes, and if you want to experience the original story you can decide not to trigger it. Though how would you know, unless they straight up ask if you want a new experience. Either way, I’m still very excited for the game
You're saying we might get a Velvet Attendant that is also a Protagonist and that's how we get a future ending ? Like a jump forward instead of being stuck in the past like in the answer ?
I mean I get why they didn’t include fem mc cuz you know the new port of both p3 portable and p4 golden being released recently for more modern systems but I don’t understand why they didn’t add the answer. I’m just hoping they add both as some dlc down the road but if not I’m still really excited for it and will continue to play it and p3 portable as many time as I’d like as a persona fan would
If they pay off Elizabeth journey from the answer and p4A in p3re that would be a journey well earned. It was always in the back of my mind playing p5 and pq1/2 if Altus was going finish Elizabeth arc. Like was PQ games and PDancing games a test for her to figure out a way for the MC to live. Before this games I thought the logical answer no pun is she switch places as a form a love for MC and he gets to live out his life with his friends. If they pull it off the “Remake” and somehow include Erebus I would like to see that fight in the new engine then atlus needs to be given there flowers. But one question still remains if MC gets to live does that harm the p4 and p5 plots and characters in that new timeline?
If they have a pay off, it would disrupt the canon tho. So far whenever they’ve made other games, they’ve made a point to not have it disrupt the canon. Strikers can be experienced whether you played vanilla or Royal. I feel like they wouldn’t be doing that for reload unless it’s a completely different from the main campaign. I don’t think they’ll let the mc live. It destroys the whole thematic purpose of P3. That, along with disrupting the canon, means the ending should play out as normal. The only say for Elizabeth to be successful in at least freeing his soul, is if they retconned The Answer (which I doubt they’d do when they try to make all side games canon too).
@@ma.2089if they truly care about the"canon" then why did they even include new characters that change the plot like maruki in p5r. They could do whatever they want to this remake, people are still gonna buy it and call it the definitive p3 game. And I don't care what they do because I'll always have the original to go back to just like p4 and p5, without all those story changes.
As someone who recently beat P3 for the first time and watched the Answer Epilogue's story I do find this video very interesting now will this happen Idk but whatever happens either it's faithful or Atlus doing a FF7R style story I am excited nonetheless. Besides next year is slowing upon us now if this does indeed happen for Reload not only I will laugh but at the same time have to commend Atlus for having the biggest balls ever. But I can guaranteed after this people will not want Atlus to do anymore remakes if they are going to change the storyline so drastically. Lastly do I believe Atlus will bring back Makoto Yuki? Yes I do considering like you said about how the protagonists being very popular and two I have a theory besides the two Arena games and the Answer Epilogue. But my theory is as long Makoto stays dead Atlus is either is incapable or refuses to do a sequel game with the P3 cast another than the Answer and not share one with another cast because Makoto is dead. Now is it a dumb theory? Yes but honestly that is how I feel and considering P4 has about three or two games taking place months after P4G's ending and as of now P5's only sequel is P5S while those games are liked by many fans but while the Answer Epilogue while I love the story I can't deny it divided people and I can guaranteed it's either to coming back every again or completely changed for the better or worse. But anyway sorry for the long paragraph and two months late in this discussion.
While we’re talking Japanese exclusive p3 content I recommend the p3 drama cds that were translated here on RU-vid. Not much lore on them but good for my p3 brain rot 😅
Commenting from about 20 mins in, will be watching the rest at a later point and will edit my comment when I finish it. I feel like I know where the theory is heading, essentially hinting at the P3 protag either 'surviving' in a new additional ending, or him being resurrected in some way. From my perspective, I find it unfortunate how much ground your theory holds. It is an amazing and incredibly well researched theory, but I can't help but feel that if there is a new ending where the P3 Protag survives that it goes against the original theming of the game. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of the changes they are making go against that original vision as a whole. For example, P3 was about making the most of the time you have because one day you will die and nothing can be done about that. That was represented through so much of the game mechanically and is instrumental to why the calendar system first showed up in P3 in particular. I ESPECIALLY felt it related to being quite hard to max out your social links. When they make comments like 'the game will play more like p5' or 'it will be easier to max out your social links, harder to reverse them and also weve removed breaking s links', I can't help but feel that goes against the original vision. What message would P3 be trying to tell you if its quite easy to do all the things you want in the game and also you cheat death at the end? Would it just be more 'power of friendship!!!!' and 'oooh butterfly effect'?
The only problem I can think of is that Hero does come back in base P3. He dies on January 31st, and comes back until March 5th. There's even 3 months between them, similar to the 3 days.
Commenting on the cosmogony, this has a complication of Persona being connected to SMT by way of Devil Summoner. The Sea of Souls is clearly connected to (and may in fact be) the Expanse, which itself exists outside worlds and time. To say that something "created it" brings up the questions of the Great Will and the Axiom. As for resurrecting the MC, any version of events that ends with him alive has the potential to butterfly away at least Persona 5 in its entirety, if not Persona 4 as well. After all, the somewhat underutilized Shadow Operatives grew out of the remnants of SEES, and the leader being alive changes that group's dynamic, which in turn may lead to them being involved in things they didn't touch previously. That doesn't mean its impossible, the world of Persona has been recreated before even if we ignore the connection to the metaverse (I am going to use that term properly, Morgana, and you can't stop me) that is SMT. But for the MCs of Persona games to meet up later they have to even exist. If this game is to affect the future of the series in terms of story direction, then that would likely contradict the idea of crossing the games over again, because the timeline would fork from P3Re in a direction that doesn't include P4 and P5.
There's the drown in sorrow and drown in depression sayings. And having the blues = being 😢😭. The water motif makes sense. And tears are basically water.
I just hope that if they change the ending that they make use of the fact this is a remake and actually make it flow (pun kind of intended) through the main story line, I really really like P5R added part, I think it deepens and consolidates the themes from the main game but its narrative has 3 elements that bother me: (WARNING) (SPOILER FOR P5R) (WARNING) 1. First ignoring a palace, while not all palaces, Joker and Morgana actually see a palace and decide to not investigate it. For me this is ridiculous both from a strategic point as well from a compassion standpoint, when this happens it should be abudantly clear that whoever has a palace is causing great suffering either to themselves or others. 2. The Sumire's reveal is way too exposition heavy, this is obvious why, since the reveal had to be done at the near the actual end of the game, most of the circumstances could only come to light at that time so everything is exposed together in what is a bit of a slow mess 3. Similarly if you know that there is going to be a new enemy in P5R it's obviously Maruki, but since its a completely optional ending you can't really begin exposing his backstory in the main game and so you're left with getting exposition tapes in the dungeon which is not great in a dungeon which already breaks the quick flow that the rest of the game dungeons have.
For the 10 cycles at 29:29, With the first game, FES, and Portable you have 4 cycles including FeMC. Q one and two get you 6, Dancing is 7, the Movies are 8, and with the re-release early 2023 you get 9. This game makes for the 10th. You could count the Answer separately meaning this would be breaking out of the cycle. It's also interesting that with the JP trailer it starts completely submerged whereas the other trailers have the character stilling within a watery environment.
May we just highlight the line “Took a few Knock-outs to understand the game, now ready for a rematch” from the reveal trailers accompanying track for a second
It's convincing I honestly haven't thought about story changes that much I'm more interested in gameplay changes like the requirements for fuuka yukari and mitsuris social links and some other minor issues I had in combat
The alternate universe or rewind of time could explain the new voice actors EXCEPT for Elizabeth. To signify her being the "protag" of this new version.
Okay. This could be Elizabeth's Abyss of Time. She made the mistake of trying to go back, only for her find out what the original cast went through: moving forward is the only way, and with this new foubd power and realization, Elizabeth could awaken to her true potential. Could Elizabeth get a bew Fool Arcana persona, in contrast to Makoto and Aigis Orpheus; she starts with Orpheus, only to end up awakening to Eurydice. She represents Orpheus at first, going to save her husband, only for her to realice she represents thay part of humanity thay Makoto wishes to save; by saving herself she saves a bit of humanity with her, and so humanity must also save themselves. Could P3 Reload be Elizabeth's "dream" or "nightmare"?
I personally dont want Mokoto to be revived or survive the end, but i certainly wouldn't mind if he did. Disregarding all the symbolism or whether or not it makes sense, i just find it really cool that the character you've been playing as for 80+ hours dies at the end of a long journey. Feels more 'final' if that makes sense. The theory is super cool, however, and I'd still be psyched if it ended up being true!
I hope it's good for folks excited for it, it looks really great, I wish I could be also. Either way, I like this video quite a bit, great indights, thank you.