Imagine not commenting: ""“Minecraft" "ASMR" "pewdiepie" "music" "Fortnite" "markiplier" “RU-vid is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits.” "Runescape" "World of Warcraft" "Shadowlands" "Dream" "MrBeast" "Warzone" "FaZe Clan" "100 Thieves" "Call of Duty" "Pokemon" "Pokemon cards" "card unboxing" "Charizard" "they don't want you to know" "Flat earth" "round earth" "triangle earth" "the earth is not earth" "what even is earth if not earth omg government is lying to you" "Minecraft" "ASMR" "pewdiepie" "music" "Fortnite" "markiplier" “RU-vid is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits.” "Runescape" "World of Warcraft" "music" "dj" "love" "rap" rapmusic" "rapper"
I have heard that the issue with putting HDMI devices in series might also have to do with issues with the return channel that would tell the computer what resolutions it is capable of displaying and other complications from the hot plug capabilities
This is called edid. So between devices you need a edid hand shake so the more devices in line you put the more hops that needs to take. Some will emulate, some with have there own, and some will pass through.
@@jenton93 And depending on your setup some are built to split so one output shows 1080p at 60fps while the other output uses 4k at 60fps allowing you to scale to match a device. Had to do that to record through an elgato hd60s at different resolutions while outputting only at max resolution (mainly for 4K) to the tv through the splitter. Finding one that actually works for a good recording setup with varying resolutions being used is a huge pain in the ass. The one I found had to basically have a dip switch so you can adjust either side as needed.
Hey I'm pretty late so thought a new comment would go unnoticed. In chemical reactions, a series of reactions is only as fast as it's slowest step; as no matter how fast the other reactions complete, until the slowest one does, the reaction dosen't complete. I think (guessing) that a similar principle could apply when we daisy chained these devices, and the total input lag was the same as the slowest of the bunch.
it depends on what technology of ethernet ones you use. HDbase-t ads a little bit of latency. the cheap copies of hdbase-t ads a lot of latency. expensive av over IP very little latency cheap hd264 compression or similar ads a lot of latency.
@@emeraldbonsai no as a AV system engineer i use hdmi extension over ip all the time. It’s very good when a client already has the Ethernet infrastructure built and it’s not up to spec for 4K over hdbaseT. But essentially it’s a encoder and a decoder but it’s common to use it for extensions and/or as a matrix. The expensive systems use a low latency jpg2000 compression and some of the are used in esports
@@TheGaggenau Yes if it's re-encoding anything it's going to add a lot. Lossless ones need more bandwidth, but other than that it's faster, because they aren't changing anything.
RU-vid be like: oh you don't need subtitles? We have activated them anyway. Oh now you need subtitles because you have no headphones but u want to know what they're talking about? Sadly we don't have them.
I guess this is a better title than the Floatplane video, as you're half-testing added render latency (w/ the capture cards in a single PC configuration) and half-testing pass-through latency with the sound bar. Your existing Leo Bodnar tester would provide far more accurate results actually testing added input latency for passthrough devices like the sound bar anyway.
Hi! I’m a new RU-vidr and was hoping I could have a little support! I started about 2 years ago and have already grown a successful amount! I do lots of cool vids and love and notice every single subscriber, thank you!
electronically the capture cards with a pass through are basically the same thing as an HDMI splitter EDIT: *should be* the results with the 4k60 Pro suggest they can screw it up
Agree. Especially if it was a really simple splitter that just forwarded the HDMI essential signals (clock and the three image channels) without any complex processing, I would just assume a few get a few ns in additional delay from the RTL logic. All these devices adding many ms delay clearly are doing something weird, that’s not some simple electrical thing or a few internal cycles in RTL logic. So my somewhat educated guess is that the most basic splitter with fewest features is most likely have the least delay. Output_a = Input, Output_b = input just should not add weird measurable delays. Linus idea about it being related to devices doing HDCP processing might be correct. Could also be something like a device wanting to buffer entire frames and never transmit a broken frame, that would add ~ 1 frame delay in processing.
@@Topside08 Yep. In theory anything with a passthrough should be exactly as if it were just a passive (dunno if possible to passively split HDMI) splitter. Thats why I think it would have been great to see a super simple one without any processing added in, it would be the 'fastest' way of getting the signal into the devices.
I think the problem is that HDMI involves two way communication. That's how your computer knows the resolution of whatever monitor you've plugged it into. HDMI doesn't support 3 way communication, so it just wouldn't work with a passive splitter. You need an active splitter that basically acts as a router to keep the communication coherent.
I'd like to see a windows vs linux vs macOS latency test!
3 года назад
Untested guess, but based on the knowledge of each of their kernels and how they behave for other real-time stuff like delays in audio processing, it would probably be something like this: 1- macOS (best, lowest latency OS and one of the reasons so many music producers and DJs use it, maybe a tie with 2nd) 2- Linux with a real time kernel (maybe a tie with 1st) 3- Normal Linux (with a normal kernel) 4- Windows (not a real-time OS at all, not by default at least) Just a guess tho, would love to see a video on it too
@ Real time OSs are not at all comparable to the others, they are called like that because some processes can just stop everything when an interrupt signal acts for example, making the latency on the range of microseconds, which is very important for robots, airplanes, satellites and thinks like that. Any kind of RTOS would trump macOS, Linux or Windows and programs written for one kind of OS are incompatible with the other without some heavy modification.
my av receiver is old enough to not have an hdmi connection at all, so I have to use a little box which splits out the audio so i can feed it to the receiver.
This is fascinating, I've been using the elgato 4k60pro mk.2 for capture for a long time now. I'd love to see a version of this testing where you compare the newer version of the capture card in both passthrough vs. duplicated monitor mode to see if there's a difference between them with latency!
@@michamiek1367 They pretty much exploit the algorithm, there is an initial title, which is to send subscribers notifications, then a title which gets picked up by youtube and recommended to others, since pretty much the whole fate of a video is decided within the first hour or so, they more people click and watch the video in the first hour, the greater the chance of youtube recommending it to people later on, after the initial hype dies, they change the title again for a much more long term one, like the one which gives you a general idea of what might be in the video, so that the algorithm plays well with the new title in the long term, since youtube is an evergreen platform
Or is it? Veritasium did a video about why the speed of light actually can't be measured! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pTn6Ewhb27k.html
@@wilson.5420 did you even watch veritasium's video all the way through? he was only talking about the one way speed of light, and to our current knowledge, differing 1 way speeds of light are indistinguishable from the 1 way speed of light being equal to the round trip speed of light.
@@leozardo7186 so what? still doesn't change the fact that nothing can travel faster than light, at least based on our current understanding of science. and electrical signals certainly travel slower than light.
Yeah but the audience is still most of the world. As far as marketing goes, it still makes business sense because this video reached billions outside of Canada.
@lucky m3x I'm sure there's a fair number in Europe as well, but you probably wouldn't be wrong the majority may be in the US. still doesn't disprove my point. their goal is to market to potential buyers. even utilizing a Canadian youtuber accomplishes that when its someone with a large audience.
At least there were no claims of negative latency. I suspect they can claim "no latency" as long as it's under some threshold, just like "0g sugar" only means less than 0.5g
THANK YOU !!!!!!! I almost sold my sony STR-DN1080 ... because of some feeling of something added lag and suspicion but happy to see this and very proud to own one, and have been expieriencin good quality passtrough with HDR and 4k upscale.. soo yeah ! GOOD JOB. But I would have liked more information about especially from this sony device , because it has allkinds of awesome other applications wifi, spotify, bluetooth two zone music ETC. ..........and it is actually really affordable and goooooooood sounding device that can be applied to multiple things and is very userfriendly.
Great video! Something else that’s important that you all didn’t cover is how linking through devices affects display/audio settings. I my experience, HDR, VRR on displays that support it, color bit depth, audio sampling settings, etc., can all be impacted in weird ways. It would have been interesting to note some of effects.
Thank you LTT for changing the aspect ratio by a couple of pixels so that I don’t notice the notch on my iPhone 12 mini. Such a minor change but it makes viewing the videos so much nicer.
Hi, the “handshake” issue you’re talking about is one that I’ve come across quite a few times, it’s an EDID mis-match, you can get a universal EDID “translator” for a fair price, it’s not a common issue, but it comes up a surprising amount in my line of work, it’s basically the way that a display device tells your source what its capabilities are, and when you pass through multiple devices it can get “left behind” of if they don’t all have one common way of communication then the entire system collapses, that’s why it can work fine with each item individually, but not all at once. This is a very simple explanation, but let’s say your screen and PC can both communicate using EDID protocols 1-10, and one of your pass through devices can communicate in protocols 1-5, and the other can communicate in protocols 6-10, both devices will work individually as there’s a common protocol from display to source, but if you try to use both the display communicates (via the first device) in a protocol that the second device can’t understand, so the EDID never makes it to the source and the source doesn’t know how to transmit, this normally results in a loss of signal, but sometimes can result in the communication being limited to early display types so your source will think it’s limited to old aspect ratios, or the wrong refresh rate, or lower resolutions.
The """""zero passthrough"""" USB Elgato cards have to add input lag, they mildly mess with colors with the passthrough they have to be doing some weird processing in the background
@@TheGaggenau I used to use an HDMI splitter to record my PS4 back when it didn't have an option to turn off HDCP early on. (It was a weird thing for sure). I wish they would have tested an HDMI splitter/switching device because that might be a good option for people who want to record and have a low latency option. I also have the HD60 pro (pcie 1080/60fps) model and I wish they could have tested that. Makes me wonder if the pcie capture card results are because it was 4k/60 model or just because of the interface difference.
@@Colty0 I was thinking the same thing. If they didn't want input lag, why not use an HDMI splitter? I could probably design a circuit that has lower latency than theirs!
@@Colty0 as a general rule, HDMI switches and splitters should not introduce more than a few milliseconds of lag, since they are pretty much doing nothing more than regenerating (boosting) the HDMI signal.
@@BrendonGreenNZL nope new signal cause of the way HDMI hand shakes work a packet to each device is different once it leaves the splitter and wouldn't work on the other, a least in spec from what I understand.
It would be neat to test a variety of home theater receivers and see if there are any particularly good or bad models. I am honestly surprised that the Sony did so well considering Sony receivers are on the low end of AVRs.
At 4:35 the audio crackle from Linus' mic sounds like wireless interference. You might want to re coordinate the frequencies used for the wireless gear.
i wouldn't say that his employees are "specialists" in their fields. They also only have around 7 or 8 sponsors total at any point in the year. He should have said "not my job" as he is the CEO not the hardware guy which should know what does what and why.
All the companies do everything to reduce costs of each TVs. They're not even putting headphone/RCA outs anymore (too much trouble adding a D/A converter). Not to mention HDMI out... Lots of professional/business grade TVs have output/linking feature because they know the customers dont care about price.
So it's impossible to use a PC or console for anything but play a competitive game? I thought they could, well, play media and stuff too when not playing games.
In all fairness, it's only THAT AV receiver, other models/brands might actually add more latency. This was a limited test and should definitely not be used to generalize over everything that exists or what we might have at home.
I have 2 Vizio TVs one 65 and one 50, I love these TV just because of all the Dolby stuff, Dolby Vizio, HDR, Dolby ATMOS DTS-X, not many TV have these features and the colors everything looks beast, paired with my Vizio 5.1.2 Sound bar with Dolby ATMOS, it sounds great I miss the different audio channels when I am on PC or in car and stuff, listening to Audio the right way matter s a lot, which led me to Buy a new DAC/Amp for my PC with Dolby 7.1 surround sound oh yeahhh.
As anyone who has an HDTV and home theater sound knows, the video ALWAYS lags behind the sound, which is why most AV receivers let you purposely delay the sound (x number of milliseconds) to match the video. It really becomes obvious when watching a concert and the drummer's movements are out of sync with the sound. The video signal simply takes longer to process (inside the graphics card and/or inside the TV/monitor), than the audio. As for applying this to gaming, doesn't everyone has the same problem on their end, all getting the same lag? So aren't we all on equal footing as far as video lag goes, (discounting monitors with a higher refresh rate, but still have video lag).
I wouldn't worry about any latency introduced by your USB hub, unless it is also carrying your network and video signals. USB (and other networking devices) have latencies measured in microseconds.
an HDCP problem is usually when you can see the image for a couple of seconds when connecting the cable and then it goes black or green/purple. not getting any picture at all or if it's flickering it's often an issue with signal strength or edid. lowering the resolution and you get a stable image indicates that.
the final delay is the sum of all devices delay. hdcp doesn't add significant delay, as the key exchange is done on startup. it is a source of things not working properly though.
I think its probably because PCI-E card is relying on computer calculation power to capture the signal and process it, the external card may use some other procesor to do it co connecting it in series would add only these 3 ms of external card and that checks out. As well the processor of soundbar can be just slower so you have similar latency as 4k60 card. Regarding your questions with HDCP- have you checked if capture cards give back any video signal? If they dont they can just pass the signal along so no additional dealy i created: just soundbar and AVR are adding which may check out.
Like the video. Hate the TV. I had nothing but issues with Visio. I worked for att uverse and most complaints I had were from Visio TVs. My step father has one and every time you want to change to a different HDMI input, you have turn off the TV after you select the input, and turn it back on with the device you want to use to be on. This process took about 1 minute (because it takes a while for the TV to shut off and turn back on) instead of a couple of seconds like most TV's. Cheap LG, Samsung, Sony, Sharp, and TLC (I used all these brands) never had the issues like I experienced with multiple Visio TV's.
It would’ve been interesting to test out simple HDMI switches and splitters. Maybe if there’s a low (no?) latency splitter, the second output can go to any other necessary equipment, like a capture card or whatever
Could you please test KVM switches as well? Considering getting one from Amazon so that I can use my gaming setup while WFH (with a work latptop), but I'm concerned about the impact it will have when I'm gaming. This is probably more relevant now days with COVID and WFH than ever before.
I appreciate Vizio for being an American company making TV's in such a heavily saturated market. So much so I've ignored my Vizio 32" from like 2014 making ocean noises for the first 20 seconds when you turn it on.
I can see that the Northern Lights desk mat has been tested to withstand a television sitting on it. Will be very handy for when they come back in stock.
It's just the intro tag for one of the laptop videos. Not sure which one at a glance, but it may have been the recent one where they added thermal pads to the MacBook air and the bottom heated up a bunch.
I have tested this Vizio Sounbar 5.1, I was impressed with the build quality but the sound was not clear. I got edifier 350b 2.1 and it was much better. The tiny vizio speakers don’t have depth or clear dialogue at all. Even the $100 pro media 2.1 PC Klipsch speakers were much better. Just giving my two cents because I tested back to back, save people some time.
You should use the LDAT to measure latency of gaming streaming services in some matrix like this: Shadow, Stadia, GeForce Now on Mac, Linux, and Windows clients. There's a super underreported issue here. A lot of people choose streaming because they want to play on weird hardware (like Mac users). But many of the streaming clients don't play nicely with the underlying systems they're running on (e.g., macOS). It'd be really interesting to see if the typical latency varies depending on the OS + client, because I'd imagine a pretty wide amount of variance between something like macOS Quartz + average Linux compositor + Windows.
Hdmi distribution either works on a line level or frame level. Most work at line level so will have almost 0 latency. But the little bit may be enough to cause a display device or input buffer until the next full frame. This may mean that your can connect 1 device to get say 10ms delay but achually able to connect 9 of them in a chain and still only being 10ms. If you are doing any kind of scaling it will need to add atleast 1 frame. Per device that is scaling. You can potentially reduce delay by using a sync card and gen locking your display.
You should do this test with kvm switches. Having a pc and console going into a single computer monitor, mouse & keyboard setup is great for cable management, price and convenience, but I am always concerned with latency.
