In my opinion, one of your best videos. Really helped to understand the spectral decay/waterfall graphs. Would it be possible for you to perform an actual speaker frequency response and spectral decay test on a video? Also, perhaps one on speaker crossover mods too ... or would that give away too many of your trade secrets? Anyway more educational videos like this would be great.
Amazing information, comparisons and analysis of results. I’m honored to have my SF Venere’s included in this presentation. This difference with the upgrades you designed resulted in better results than I could have imagined. Keep up the great work, Danny!
I'm pretty sure I've watched every one of your videos by now and this is one of my favorites. I purchased the Clio pocket measurement system a few months ago so I can measure all my speakers and all the speakers I work on. Because of your channel and all your knowledge you share with us it didn't take me long to get it set up and figured out. This video in particular was super helpful to me to understand whats going on with the speaker. I do my best and try to fix and tweek the speakers I measure and am continuously learning more and more thanks to you.
Really good video Danny, very informative, Would have helped to see more pictures of the speakers to imagine how that relates to the graphs, but still good.
People who become alarmed at ripping speakers apart are ignorant, this is an infinite subject much like RF propagation. Lifelong interest this passion takes, this man spends that time and then shares with us becomes more time is invaluable to us all!
It's been said multiple times but another informative video. I discovered your site a few years ago and it was like getting the keys to the magic kingdom. I have read a lot of technical information over the years, audio, and computer. Your video presentation is a pleasure to watch.
Excellent. I rather enjoy hanging out with you Danny. In all the videos of yours I've watched you have never said one thing that isn't true (that I have found true in my own acoustics work). Cheers.
Thanks Danny. I'll be the first to admit I don't know what I'm looking at with the graphs in your vids but this has really helped me with this particular graph type quite a bit.
Great video Danny this is exactly what I was looking for and now understand so much more. Can you please do a video explaining notch, and compensation filters?
Amir will be salivating over all this content he can ride on someones coattails. Danny you're a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for sharing with us gear-heads.
Suggest it is time to completely ignore Amir. He recently hijacked a thread on Audiogon with dozens of posts. Per the usual formula, Amir knows all, others are ignorant.
@@jfritzy4358 No kidding. Amir actually reviewed the Parasound JC2 BP. One of the biggest, most jaw dropping moments I've ever experienced in HiFi as a subpar piece of equipment :) Of course he never listened to it I'm sure. He appeals to the pitchfork and torch club that has 0 experience in audio. Danny is really a gem in the industry and is trying to help us make good purchasing decisions, or helping us make the most of the money we've already spent. Spending less in the hobby is what we all should be enbracing.
Always fascinating to see some of the behavior of these speakers and your measures to tame them where needed (to the degree they CAN be tamed in the first place, of course). Thanks for putting so much time into educating us!
Yes! I watched it to the end! I hate to admit it, but one thing I have learned from your videos is that I know squat and diddly about speaker design. So much for me thinking “this is easy. I can do that”. Not! So glad I took on building a number of your kits. Thanks for posting; I love learning new things. Lastly - Danny - you mention several times about internal reflections causing issues with spectral decay. Are these controlled by your No-Rez?
Thanks a lot for that Danny, that explains a lot. From the SPL level I’m guessing his is all from the normal 1W at 1m sweeps. I’ve been measuring and upgrading 3 pairs of Linn Tukans as Atmos surrounds in my Home Theater, using REW / UMIK-1, and REW isn’t showing me anything like your CLIO traces with its waterfall plot. I’ve bought an EMM-6 Dayton mic and Mic amp to use with ARTA software to see if that works better, while keeping an eye open for a used CLIO POCKET. This is definitely another one to go back and watch again. Thanks for all you do for us
WOW! Totally brilliant video. I now fully understand what is happening when looking at the graphs. I never suspected or understood what the front lines of the graph were for, now I know it's a timeline. I should have paid more attention to that... Also some very useful information on " toe-out ". Who would have thought that just a few degrees could make a difference. You sir are a super intelligent human being. So from across the pond here in the UK I Thank you very much.
FWIW, the Mark Audio wide band speakers were my interpretation of an S. Lindgren design called "Pensil". The cabinets were finished with two types of RTF (rigid thermofoil). As it turns out, the cabinets were nicer that the drivers. I gave the speakers to my sister who still uses them.
I have the Tekton Lores and yes there is a bit of ringing as Danny described. But for a floor standing speaker that is $1k, its still a lot of speaker for the money. Yeah, they are not sound staging magicians and there is a bit of ringing, but they sound a lot better than some of the contenders at or almost 2x the price. People who do buy the Lores usually pair them with SET amps, which for me mitigates the ringing a bit. It doesn’t remove it completely, but when I compared to some solid state amps, they sound best with tube. Just my 2 cents.
@@DannyRichie-uc8sw thanks for the info, but I am happy with my Lores & I’ve since upgraded and relocated the Lores to my wife’s system, since she isn’t that critical 😉. But I have to say, that at least they aren’t Zu speakers.
@@DannyRichie-uc8sw hey Danny, I want to make sure that your info is being received correctly. From the vid photo and description of a soft dome tweeter, I'm pretty sure you have the Tekton Lore Reference, which is a mid size model in the Lore line up along with the full size and mini lore. Full size Lores are quite a bit bigger than the reference and have an Audax Gold Dome tweeter. I'm positive that a couple of commenters in here have the full size Lore and I'm confident that they would need a different solution after testing than the models you had. I'm just pointing this out in case people are ordering your upgrade for the wrong speaker. Great vid though.
I'm totally new to this but I'm intrigued to understand your videos. What would help is if you can do some sort of pointer to the graphs as you are explaining. The graphs aren't very legible, imo. Perhaps others would love it too or maybe they are way advanced and understand your explanation, which is very articulate. Thank you. I'm going to be ordering an upgrade to my .7's and LRS +. Very cool stuff!
great review on the data and graphical plots on some of the speakers you have had come through. A bit of a rhetorical question but it would sure be interesting to see how many of these speakers had xovers designed with PC software based on the driver parameters and how many were done using physical measurements? A second rhetorical question would be how many of the original designers saw the drivers ringing in their plots but either A. said to heck with it "we'll use them anyway", or B. how many at the concept stage went back and talked to the driver manufacturer and said can you get some of that ringing out, at the same cost or will the driver cost go up? I know these guys that design at the lower price points are under huge pricing pressure. May not be quite the case when you get north of 4k for a pair of bookshelfs, or 6k for a full range floor stander.
I like dealing with folks that say do you like your speaker's sound. Heck yes! They are better than most systems I have heard. When people come over and hear them, they are impressed. Could much better and expensive speakers sound better? Sure, but to common folks who do not audiophile issues, the sound improvement may not be worth the cost!
I have Mark Audio Alpair 11ms drivers installed in Frugal-horn XL cabs. They are directly driven and I have to say they can be a little fatiguing to listen to on occasions, especially when using Class D amplification. I also own a low power el34 tube amp which does calm things down somewhat. I'd like to modify these speakers but I wouldn't know where to begin... lol
OK! We have added spectral decay to the act. The three audible characteristics of sound fields are the spatial, spectral, and temporal. Virtually every one of these commenters have no awareness of the spatial. This means the pattern of direct and reflected sounds in the room that combine to form the imaging. The spatial cannot be measured, only heard, so they have no way of illustrating the sound in a graph or a drawing, so they just say nothing about it - if they are even aware of it. But they CAN make a drawing of it. It is called the image model of the sound in the room. You just draw a picture of the speakers and their first reflections from the walls nearby as additional virtual speakers on the other side of the walls, like mirror images in light. You can then easily see the pattern of sources in the room and how the reflected sound helps form the "Big Picture" of the imaging.
The solutions that come from your Research make me continue to hope that there will be a day when GR Research will be able to supply Audio Lovers with a Kit that answers the question.... What more do you need?
Spectrum decay will also have to do with room size. If you ever ran sound for a live band you would know this. People have a tendency thinking bigger is better. Acoustics of a room is everything.
Hey Danny, I was recently in a semi sealed demo room and really enjoyed the pressurization the room offered. Would giant foam cutouts for my open archways to my listening room help me mimic that speaker demo room?
I would LOVE to see an advanced video on crossover design from you. Although, I suppose your audience would need to know the basics of electrical components first.
Really interesting to learn about the decay and your tratments. Would like to know how you setup the measurement. Especially where you placed the microphone.
I would love to see your analysis of the high end 8” full range drivers from Lowther, Supravox, and Cube Audio (in particular the Fc8). I want to build a pair of Voigt tubes, and I’m wondering if they compare to the Tang Band drivers. BTW, I’m subscribed, but I don’t see how I can send you a Buy-Me-Coffee.
Who would have thought that some foam in a port or towing speakers out 8 degrees could make That big a difference in the sound? The graphs you are showing actually helps us understand how you solve Many speaker issues. The 20 kilo hertz, ringing was very interesting. That Zoo speaker was a disgrace. When you Repeat what you are saying regarding ringing/ or not makes you more than a You Tube presenter. It makes you an Educator.
@@ClassifiedBriefWhat room? Literally millions of options to choose from. Danny’s in room will look nothing like, and way better, than most because it’s treated to be a listening room.
Great stuff! Few get anywhere near discussing such detailed design concepts and results. Being able to see the measured results from the hardware designs. I know it was covered some before in perhaps a more confrontational time... but I was hoping to learn more about why you choose the parameters you do? Why cut off ay 200hz? Why only 25db of decay? Obviously lower frequencies require removing room interactions more. As I would guess lower level room reflections.
Measuring lower requires being further away with the mic, but getting far enough away to start accurately measuring down low is hard to do. I can't gate out the room reflections if I get too far away.
I really like this video Danny. Thanks for the instruction. I wish all your videos were this long (selfish, I know). How did you make out at the Penn Relays here in Philly back in April?
Jednu otázku a prosbu bych měl. Na trhu se objevily Avangard Acoustic colibri. Co na ně říkáš. Mám rád hornové konstrukce. Ten charakter zvuku mi vyhovuje. Jenom nevím, nemám kde poslechnout, jestli to jsou pravověrné Avangard Acoustic které bych zvládl zaplatit a nebo jestli to nejsou jen nějaké life style Bluetooth ,,hračky,, Dík za případný názor. ❤
Great video Danny! Ashamed to say that I just bought a pair of those Mark audio drivers for a full range experiment. You provided some useful and potentially alarming insight. Can more damping potentially help to prevent excess ringing?
You can add notch filters to attenuate some of the ringing, but you can't get rid of it. You should have just gone with one of our LGK kits. They are less money and sound a LOT better.
@@dannyrichie9743 I will definitely try your speaker kits one day! I’m based in EU so shipping and customs is a bit of a barrier. Mark audio has a very good reputation on some diy forums so just wanted to see what the fuss was about. It will be interesting for comparison if nothing else. Funny how people have different ideas of what good sound is…
Dang it, I have Polk LSi 9 speakers and just spent 2 days rearranging my room and $400 on acoustic panels (i'm not kidding!). Now I find out the speakers are crap. Please recommend a $1,000 - $1,500 per pair alternative that looks decent (has grills and wood veneer.)
Having owned the Lsi9 also for several years, they are NOT a crap speaker at all. In fact they sound QUITE good, despite the measurements. I compared them to about 5 other speakers years ago, and they acquit themselves quite well. Here is another case of listening trumping measurements. NOT a perfect speaker for sure, but not bad AT ALL!
We sound professionals have trained our minds to dislike the ringing which actually seems to be a preference among consumers. Our ears are alert for this phenomenon even in a fairly narrow band, the sort of thing a musician would immediately pick out listening to their own instrument. JBL makes some of the very best damped speaker systems with almost bizarrely lacking ring. No one wants them in their living room but I can use them all day without fatigue and use their info to mix music in whatever way I might imagine.
Okay, you can tell David Dicks from Audio Nirvana that his large FR drivers were hard to listen too. I had a tech put some AN Super 10" Fr in a regular Monitor size cabinets, and no crossover in a ported cabinet. Sounds good to me... I would love to have them in a TL cabinets. they would have to be 4' x 1' x 1-1/2' towers...
Danny, a suggestion. Once you start recording your video, wait 1 second before you say, "Hey everybody!" Those 2 words lets viewers know they are viewing none other than Danny Richie!
Hi Danny, thank you for this fantastic video. I need to to buy components and schematics for crossover modification of my cheap Yamaha NS-6490 speakers. can you help please. Thankyou
I noticed you didn't mention the crossover filters. While these are commercial products, that doesn't mean that the filters would not have too much 'Q' which could also cause ringing. So, did you check the L, C and Z to see that it had a 'Q' of 1 for a L-R filter?
@Danny, This not only saved me lots of $$$ - But, the time to make a DYI speaker using most of these supposedly full-range drivers just to hear the song "Ring My Bell" - Seems foolish now. Thanks
Danny, have you ever tested any headphones in this fashion? I am waiting upon the arrival on Tuesday of my Verum 1's from the Ukrane. I recently saw your review on You Tube of the 1's. Thanks again Joe Wlodynski
The Polk LSI series speakers are some of the best sounding speakers I've ever heard. All this measurement stuff doesn't make much sense to me if those speakers measure badly.
We just measured a Polk LSiM703, and it measured really well. The parts quality was fairly poor, but it did measure well. I will do a video on it shortly.
