We Love Training - We Were Soldiers 

Sergeant Major is the only enlisted command billet.

So that means that none of the officers in the battalion cannot give the Sgt Major an order?

@@CUNextTues No, they can. But if the he tells them to go f--- themselves, they know Moore will back Plumley over them.

@@CUNextTues That would be out of line professionally, and violating the Commanding Officer's order. All the other officers need to stay out of the SgtMaj's business.

Fair enough.

Oof. He lets the Big Guns do the talking.

“by the time I need one, there’ll be plenty of them laying on the ground” I think that’s closer to the actual dialogue, and I believe he’s talking specifically about “getting [himself] an M16” and he says that there will be plenty on the ground because the troops carrying them will have been killed. Maybe that’s bad ass? Definitely a cool line.

@@randbarrett8706 cool? One has to carry that for the wrest of their life, not lightly

I speak about that all the time. I’m not pretending to be anything of a leader like these men but I tell my team I need them with their heads up directing, not doing. We have plenty of people in our operation to do the doing. If they need to do things themselves, it means we are really short staffed. They should be inspiring and leading and assessing.

He wasn't kidding. All he carried was a 1911

Well, yah, he fought in two prior wars and saw more combat in either one than all of the officers there combined.

Well that's generally how it works...difference between rank and chain of command. They might out rank him, but they aren't his chain of command.

@@yendub Nothing to do with it. It's called chain of command. The Sgt-Major (in the US Army) RSM (Commonwealth Armies) is a direct advisor to the CO of an Infantry Battalion (or equivalent unit in other branches). He was just reinforcing that point in the scene (and for the audience).

1SGs or CSMs act as the mgrs of the troops. The COs or officers deal with orders, supply, missions, budgets. Officers are held accountable & liable. Not enlisteds. I saw SMA Richard Kidd SF speak in Panama 🇵🇦. He made it clear, E-9s do NOT make policy or decisions. Field grade & general officers do that.

Sr NCOs are what makes the Army

Insanity lmfao

Honestly, the craziest part is he survived throughout it all and lived until he was 92 years old. 30 years of service, wounded 4 times, thousands of hours of training and combat experience, and a fuckton of medals. He was interviewed about his time in La Drang along with other soldiers who served there. His interview was three paragraphs long, whereas the other soldiers had multiple pages worth. What a beast

I wonder if SGM Plumley ever told Sam Elliott what he thought of Sam's portrayal of himself... Sam Elliott was in attendance when SGM Plumley was laid to rest in 2012; THAT says quite a bit to me.

Both Plumly and Hal are badasses, plumly survived with a colt m1911 pistol and Hal got hundreds of kills, almost bayoneted, calls Broken arrow, calls in millions of napalm and bombs, and other things he did were incredible.

Beware an old man in a profession where men usually die young.

"Don't think 'cause yer officers, you can order the Sar'Major around."

Well, in the real Army, those officers don’t have to be told that. They know that they can’t F with the Sergeant Major.

@@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime If they're squared away officers then yeah probably. But in the real Army that isn't always the case.

@@BULL.173 True. But if a butterbar tries to mess with the SGM, he’s going to get educated real quick.😊

@@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime Yes they would and rightfully so. I honestly can't remember ever seeing an O-1 or O-2 get too uppity with a senior NCO. Especially E-7 and above. That seemed to be the line where junior officers would become noticeably more careful. But I was also in the 173rd Airborne. Discipline was tight but our leadership was definitely a cut above. This was back in 2007 so almost everyone E-5 and above had at least one combat deployment under their belt. More than a few, including my platoon sergeant, had participated in the initial invasion of Iraq in 03.' So I was lucky in that respect. It was a highly professional and well motivated group of guys. There was just no allowance for that type of chickenshit behavior. The biggest problems we had were actually at the battalion level and above. Their chronic inability to properly support us in the field was negligent at best. And I'm not just talking about poor tactical decision making. We were basically stranded in those mountains and often found ourselves rationing water and eating only twice a day instead of three. Anyway, sorry about the rant lol.

Are you familiar with the meaning of the clusters?

@@specialk9424 Yes they mean additional awards for the same decoration.. my father had an air medal with four oak leaf clusters on it... So he had five air medals... If he would have got another one, he could have got a silver oak leaf cluster which denotes five awards ... Also had a bronze star with Oak leaf cluster and V device ... He was an 8th Air Force B-24 pilot and also flew in Korea and during the Cold War

@@2345allthebest OK, I guess you're familiar. If you weren't, I was going to explain it to you, but I didn't want to just assume you didn't know. And now anybody else who reads our thread will also know. And knowing is half the battle. Are you 80's enough to get that reference?

​@specialk9424 GI Joe!!! A Real American Hero! 🇺🇸 They claimed to be "top secret" 🤫 but in a few late 1980s comics, Joes wore Class As with red, white, blue GI Joe tabs.

Freakin Glider Wings 🪽!?? Those dudes are insane for doing that stuff!

My favorite part is that slight smile he does when Gibson says "I hope you all like training, because the Sargent Major and I, we love it."

"how do yo know what kind of a god damn day it is"

@@mikeprasad9717 "What are you, a fuckin weatherman now?"

He was friends with Plumly and family. He sat with them at the Funeral a few years ago also

THE Sam Elliot? Wow

Most people who saw this and knew him, said Plumley was too friendly. That's a gravel chewing sob.

Captain Smooth and Sergeant Rough

Find yourself someone who looks at you the way LTC Moore looks at SGM Plumley 🥳🥳🥳

Yes, I noticed that, wonderful acting.

You spoken very honorably about your former leader and to see that such men still walk among us is humbling. I myself knew three guys (two brothers and a friend) that would come to my bar and spend some time on the weekends. When the older brother got bedridden and the friend no longer could drive, I was asked to take the younger brother to the V.A. hospital, he had Hoskins Linphoma. This is where I learned all 3 were in the same seal unit, had served 3 tours in Vietnam, and agent orange had finally given him cancer. He told me he didn't want to fight it anymore. He's passed away a few years now, but I had heard an incredible story of rescue of a team LRRP Long Range Recon Patrol deep in enemy territory. Like you, I found myself humbled in their presence.

This type of military system has always been so strange to me. Why bother sending people to officer schools (academies) when in the end a seasoned NCO, for example, has more knowledge in how to lead men and military tactics than an officer graduate. If these schools (academies) are so ineffective at simulating real working/combat conditions why keep them ? Just promote your NCOs to officers when the time comes and they have the experience. Or the other option - increase officer training effectiveness. Have the cadets spend more time working in military bases as right hand men/women to real NCOs and officers with real documents and enlisted. What is the point of having lieutenants and captains if you are going to tell them "Whatever the NCO says, that goes". Doesn't make any sense. It is like the Platoon Sergeant saying to the squad and team leaders that whatever the oldest and most seasoned Private 1st Class says, that goes.

@@akotarakz A lot of it is based on tradition. Formerly officers were the only college educated and formally trained Soldiers, now you will see more NCOs with bachelors and masters degrees. (I myself have a masters degree). Officers and NCOs also have different roles and responsibilities. The officer issues guidance in accordance with higher command on how to accomplish their part of the mission, and it is up to the senior NCO to ensure that training plan and education of the Soldiers is carried out effectively. The US military has an robust officer and NCO military education system. Each rank you attain you have to go through some formal education to attain the next rank, at least in the Army.

@@akotarakz Also, military service academy and ROTC cadets do spend time in the summers with real units learning from them. I have had several cadets during their summer training attached to my units to learn how it is. The main problem is there are toxic shitty officers and toxic shitty NCOs in every organization. It only takes one or two to have a lasting impact on that officer or NCO corps. I have been a senior NCO had a a toxic, drunkard LTC that I worked for that nearly ran that organization into the ground and forced a lot of junior officers and NCOs to leave the Army. This happens in places like Fort Cavazos (Hood) where there are shitty units with shitty unit history.

@richardschiffman6418for sure I was just talking modern.

@@akotarakz I think you're confusing two issues. Seasoned NCOs and their inherent value doesn't somehow devalue training officers get. There's only so much you can cram and simulate in a training environment. And your analogy doesn't work all the way down the ranks. The CO, SGM or 1SGT is often listed, for example, on base signs at the entrance -- not the CO and XO. It's somewhat tradition, but also respect to the enlisted men.

Read the book.

Not to mention the treatment they got back home for a war most didn't want to fight. RIP, the fallen ones, and thanks for their service to all.

@@ant-rod2881 It really is unmentionable, and so totally wrong, almost criminal.

@@davesmith3023Better. Just vastly outnumbered and on foreign soil.

@@ant-rod2881what treatment did they get at home that was so bad? I would suggest that conscripting people and sending them to vietnam in the first place is the ultimate act of disrespect. We sent people to their deaths for no reason. At least all the people we sent to die in Iraq for no reason volunteered at some point (though a lot of the national guard troops did not expect to be asked to fight & die for the entertainment of George Bush)

I wait for the day we don't celebrate the bravery of men who give their lives needlessly over the failings of the leaders making decisions. Anyone who travels extensively and has some empathy, does not watch the news propaganda, knows that people are people anywhere in the world. Those who want power are the least suited to it as these psychopaths and narcissists who willingly send men to battle for just that. It's the fringe in our society who determine how the rest live. Its evident everywhere in the world at the moment - the COVID fiasco is a case in point. True leaders will do everything in their power to avoid war. They will do everything in their power to be a servant to those in their care. Human will to do something can be extraordinary. History has shown us this, it just has to be directed properly. Someday, I hope war with our fellow brothers will be no more.

"Any o' you sonsabitches calls me granpa..." Fixed it for ya'. 😁

ANd he wasn't joking

Agreed. I was in a different branch, in the 90s, but can attest that they aren't making too many leaders of the caliber of Moore and Plummley. While we had mostly first rate Chiefs and Chief Warrants, the majority of the junior officers left much to be desired, for a variety of reasons. Moore & Plummley were career men. Most of our officers weren't, and their concept of leadership was "I'm an officer and you do what I tell you..."

I also agree

There were plenty of us. You'll likely never hear our stories. Men that fought wars were kicked to the side when Obama and Biden reduced the force. They replaced us for kids that never saw battle. And the only reason they did was to save a few bucks every paycheck. That's your POTUS. Hates real people, gets rid of heroes, and then will tell you a story about his corvette.

Always seemed like an impossible promise to keep, saying that everybody, dead or alive, will return to the US.

@@baronedipiemonte3990of course most officers have a “ever heard of rank structure?” mentality the military, especially the Air Force, consciously tries to model business environments and that is how it works in business

Having survived a combat tour in Afghanistan embedded with the 173rd Airborne and the 1st Infantry Division, I've never been the same since either. And the stuff I went through was nothing compared to this.

@@michaeldavis3819 thank you for your service and God bless you!

I think he was born with one.😊

I think my brain auto filled his mustache.

Meaner more serious

I didn’t know that was Sam Elliott 😂😂

At first I thought that was R Lee Ermey

What are the biggest differences, in your opinion?

@@simonholdsworth6867 prior to the UCMJ, each branch dealt with discipline according to their own criteria and standards. There was of course pros and cons but that culture didn’t die out overnight. That culture was very conducive to a non politically correct culture based on training and discipline. I’d be willing to bet that the Pattons, Chesty and other larger than life could have succeeded in a post UCMJ environment. I’m basing my opinion on the countless hours I spent talking to ww1/ww2/Korean war veterans. Many of the JAG officers that helped write the UCMJ went on to become federal judges. Because of the streamlining of rights and responsibilities I often wonder if that opened the door to what we have today. Of course this is just my opinion, as I’m a nobody.

@@tonylittle8634 "Of course this is just my opinion, as I’m a nobody." - realistic assessment that includes all of us.

Those soldiers volunteered or were drafted when the country was at peace. A permanent draft had been in effect since the end of the Korean War in 1953 which would last the length of US involvement in Vietnam until 1973. The movie showed them getting the news from the President that he was sending US troops into South Vietnam after they had already been training for sometime. The Army brass was shown to have been wanting to fight in Vietnam. Lt.Col Moore was clearly expecting the US to get involved. But the average enlisted soldiers didn't know that fight was coming. After getting the news of their deployment orders to Nam,Moore is shown complaining that he was losing experienced soldiers due to their expired enlistments because the President did not declare a state of emergency and involuntarly extend enlistments. Those soldiers had to be replaced by last minute enlistees and draftees.

Lifers

They like it 🚁

Actually they didn't like it much at all and neither did the pilots. The model shown here is a UH-1H(Bell 205) which came much later in the war, the UH-1C, the short version(Bell 204) that was being used at the time this movie is depicted had barely enough power to get off the ground with a full load of troops or supplies due to the high altitude and the hot humid conditions, it wasn't uncommon for the gunner and crew chief to jump out of the helicopter to reduce the weight and run along side the bird until it had enough speed and translational lift to clear the trees. The early Hueys were trash and often crashed more due to being under powered than from enemy fire.@@georgejones8481

​@@davesmith3023if you were an officer, you were a volunteer. And most of the troops that fought in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees. Most of those drafted during that time were sent to Europe, Japan and Korea to shore up vacancies (either from soldiers retiring, leaving at the end of their term, legal reasons, or being transferred elsewhere for other duties).

distance a huey could cover, instead of all on foot.

You cant hear helicopters until they're basically right on top of you unless they're flying high above the ground. Even then helicopters are still pretty fast. The tactical advantage is why we use them though. They don't require a runway and you can put troops and cargo wherever you want to, and for gunships they can hover around instead of having to fly around and line up their cannons.

I knew an American psychologist who treated vets with PSTD The number of patients who had flashbacks of slinging their rifles, turning their backs to the enemy and running towards the biggest, loudest target in the jungle And then unloading stores and loading casualties He figured it was that "back towards the danger" stuff that really put the fuck into them

​@@Shado902yeah the Huey by modern standards isn't very fast, but it was still faster than anything on the ground, and go directly to where it was needed instead of following a road, and didn't have to worry about getting stuck in mud or anything

I was stationed there in 1984, I don't care what they renamed it, it will ALWAYS be Fort Benning to me.

@@davesmith3023 yeah, right

@@sabrewolf4129 If there ever was a man who deserved to have a base named for him,it was Hal Moore and his wife was instrumental in how next of kin is notified of a soldiers death.

@@Wesmark1184 Then make a new base, there is nothing wrong with a base named for Benning. It was that name for 100 years, only now with the whole woke racist bullshit does it become an issue. It will forever be known as Fort Benning by those of us who were stationed there, trained there, basically lived there, a good portion of our lives.

​@@Wesmark1184 Moore was a great Army officer. Much like Richard "Dick" Meadows SF, Col James Nick Rowe, SF & MSG Roy Bienvetez: MoH awardee 🏅.

Reminds me of the Gunnery Sergeant from The Pacific who chewed out a fresh lieutenant for not keeping his weapon pointed down range while training

@@jeffreypeters2803 And the best part of that, was the captain. "Don't look at me, lieutenant, Gunny's right."

Kind of like Eastwood in Heartbreak ridge.

He's the kind generals salute

@@ericgarringer6911 And then he replies, without saluting back, "What am I, a fuckin' officer?"

thats absolutely messed calculation because in the battle of LZ Xray 80 men died in 4 days... the whole casualties were 234 dead so it must have been much longer :)

and it was deployed 1000 cavalry soldiers :)

All based off the false flag of the gulf of tomkin.....tragedy they are heros but the us AND vietnam governments are evil

Looks like Don Draper escaped sterling cooper in episode 4 to go to Vietnam hehe

Clark Gregg is in there.

That's why they had Crandall do it in the scene. He was the leader of the Hueys and could be counted on to do it on cue

Did you see John Hamm as 1 of the young officers? Army. He's in Top Gun 2 as a Navy Adm. ⚓️

I can see Plumley commanding a Terminator squad no problem

The c.o.can also set his own chain of command I think. Not sure, never served in the military.

@@7thsonofa7thson80 eh, more of a bigger picture unit structure type of thing regarding “billets”. Like every unit will have set billets that have recommended rank requirements but often are malleable. Like as a Sergeant (E5) I filled in our platoon sergeant billet for a short time before I got out, which is recommended to be a Staff Sergeant (E6) role. However, the billet itself came with “rank” or “authority” essentially, so I wasn’t an E5 telling E6’s and E7s what to do, I was the Platoon Sergeant telling the Section Chiefs what to do/what I needed from them, even though every Section Chief outranked the Platoon Sergeant. It can get tricky because of that factor and interpersonal relationships between the differing ranks, but that’s why it’s important to have a good CO or high ranking enlisted who makes it clear as day what the deal is and how it’s going to work. Thankfully my section chiefs weren’t shitheads and we had good relationships, but I also had an absolute monster and an OG of a Master Sergeant over the entire platoon at the time who had my back if any of the section chiefs wanted to be bitter or dumb about a lower rank telling them to do things regarding the platoon.

Brainwashing!

People tend to forget that We Were Soldiers came out right on the heels of Blackhawk Down, about a month later. They were both part of a number of war films and mini series (Such as Band of Brothers) which were inspired by renewed interest in big budget war films brought on by Saving Private Ryan, and that came out shortly before or just after 9-11 and before the Iraq War.

​@@TheLAGopherprivate ryan came out in 97

It was pretty popular on DVD

I don’t think Mark Harmon was in this movie.

@@MaxwellAerialPhotography No, but he and Clark Gregg are both on The West Wing. Or as I joked, "If they had Coulson and Gibbs, how did we NOT run out of bad guys?"

Custer set the bar for situational awareness 1876......Somebody should have revisited that before they went into that valley....

That's what we want people to think. Only a fool would believe it.

The Army's achilles heel is what it has always been, they take anyone, high school drop outs, non citizens, criminals. Probably 25-50% are straight up scumbags that they gave a uniform to. Get some goddamn standards.

Train wreck real event...

I was a person who worked many jobs over 30 years. And I retired with nothing.

Shh. That's classified!!