The original plan for The Wheel in Space were for a Dalek and Cyberman battle. But due to Terry Nation Wanted to promote the Daleks in America he didn’t approve of the story but allowed for future Dalek stories in the 70s. Shame that this didn’t happen cause 60s Daleks and Cybermen having a battle off would have been Fing AMAZING to have seen if it wasn’t missing
Sounds like it could have been epic, though given the Daleks vs Mechanoids battle that we got in The Chase, it might have ended up a confusing slideshow with flame effects overlaid on top
Honestly always been surprised the Five Doctors didn’t do this Like imagine the Death Zone Dalek either surviving or there being another who goes to battle with the squad of Cybermen as the Third Doctor escapes
Steven Moffat said that the Cybermen in Series 5 are Mondasian. Neil Gaiman later said that the Mondasian Cybermen saved the Cybus Cybermen from "The Next Doctor", who survived aboard the CyberKing in space. There's a video game where these early Cyberiad Cybermen, which look identical to Cybusmen, kill Paradigm Daleks with their wrist blasters.
According to the story Ghost in the Machine which was from the twelve angels weeping book the 9th cyber legion, which were the ones from a good man goes to war aka the combination between cybermen from n-space and cybus cybermen, fought against the daleks. These cybermen were so powerful that an entire galaxy was destroyed to ensure their destruction ( this was stated in nightmare in silver ). So if you want to make a cyberman vs dalek story you can base the setting there. Its also important to note that the nightmare in silver cybermen were so powerful that they needed to be completely destroyed to keep them down permanently. Last time we saw, dalek weapons didnt completely destroy cybermen when they last fought
Technically the 9th Cyber Legion were not the ones seen in A Good Man Goes to War - that was the 12th Cyber Legion, which is destroyed by the Doctor The canon status of Twelve Angels Weeping is in doubt, as it features the Racnoss who are supposed to be extinct after the events of The Runaway Bride, and the origin story for the Cyberiad Cybermen given in that story contradicts what we hear in Nightmare in Silver, but it is still fun to consider that the Daleks and the Cybermen are still fighting each other somewhere out there in the universe
I feel like a Dalek could blow up an angel. At the maximum setting, a Dalek gun could easily destroy a 3 story building, that concentrated on a statue which couldn't move as the Dalek wouldn't blink... Well it seems one sided.
The Daleks would still win. Are we forgetting about the time of the doctor? When all of the doctors Enemies were gathered and the Daleks beat all of them? Including the cybermen?
They had a bit of help from the Doctor, in fact I think in that instance he did most of the work, we don't actually see Daleks fight Cybermen in that episode but we do see Cybermen fighting the Doctor's Silents
Neither cuz they have both died out because of how impractical they are Warfare requires imagination imagination requires emotion Warfare also require soldiers soldiers require numbers numbers don't come from being obsessed with purity
Look all I'm saying is there's no way an alliance between the Daleks, Cybermen and Master isn't going to end with them still being good friends. Hoping for a fight in the Centenary
I think Doomsday was a pretty isolated scenario, since The Cybus-Men are from an Earth that's only slightly more advanced than ours. The Cybermen from the regular Who Universe are generally depicted as being nearer to The Daleks in power, with a massive galactic empire of their own. I think The Daleks would probably still win since they're capable of stuff like the reality bomb (which The Cybermen aren't as far as I know), but it'd be far closer, with massive chunks of the Dalek empire being destroyed in the process.
@@dalekbumps It's a bit more than that. The Cybusmen were only created a few years ago in the Season 2 timeline. When we first meet the Mondasian Cybermen they're farther in their timeline than the Cybusmen got the chance to be while the Cult of Skaro was from the Dalek Empire at its apex
I would definitely sell my soul just to see the Paradigm Daleks and the Cybermen (from series 12) battle it out to the death and maybe have Raston Warrior Robots fighting both sides as well.
The Daleks would still win, perhaps just not as easily. The Classic Cybermen probably would have fared much better against Classic Daleks, as simple bullets were enough to destroy those, and the Cybermen had energy weapons.
The 100th Anniversary of BBC Dr Who will feature the Master, Daleks and Cybermen in a sort of alliance, which probably won't last very long Imo, so We could see some sort of fight between them.
For a Dalek vs cyber story there needs to be a good reason for it not just out of no where. A good idea to me would be them teaming up against the doctor or to invade Earth but the Daleks never send out Daleks to do any dirty work or any scenario where a Dalek could die they send the cybermen. Slowly the cyberleader begins to see what their arrangement is and that the Daleks were just using them so there would be no Daleks that were killed and they would eventually kill the cybermen and the doctor also points this out. So the cyberleader discreetly begins moving their forces against the Daleks culminating in a huge battle. This would harken back to doomsday when the cybermen proposed an alliance except this time the Daleks accepted but not for the reasons the cybermen did.
the reason to fight is simple. cybermen aren't daleks. therefore the daleks hate them. so they start killing them. cybermen want to survive. daleks are a threat to there survival. so they do everything to defend themselves. have the war be a huge plot point spaning a few seasons. the daleks attack humans because they are future cybermen reenforments. cybermen attack humans because they need reinforcements. sontarans get involved because it's war and they want in. ice warriors being part of the Galactic Federation with humanity get involved as a human ally.
Personally, I'd love it. Something like Remembrance where the humans are squashed in the midst of a Cyberman-Dalek battle over some weapon. With the Doctor pulling some big brain plan to stop both sides, getting the weapon or humanity getting murdered in the process. Honestly, if they continue with Doctor Who, this would be a great post-regeneration story. As it would very well establish the Doctor as the Doctor. The players? My wish for the Daleks, would probably involve a squad of Time War Daleks, led by a Metallic Red Drone Paradigm Dalek (you know, fans would be even more excited to see a Paradigm Dalek actually in action, especially against Cyberiad) with even a Special Weapons Dalek on the ground. If we get lucky, I'd like to see a unique Dalek commander, possibly the Dalek Eternal, that would be a new threat to the show and would show up again in the future. For the Cybermen, probably a group of Cyberiad as an elite guard backed up with Cyberwarriors with a CyberLord leader. Hell, they could introduce a new CyberVariant, like a Dalek Buster. The humans would just be UNIT, who would have never dealt with the Daleks and Cybermen together (in the episode where they team up they don't meet the Dalek's just the Cybermen, also can we stop having the Daleks team up with other races they typically like to use other species but it feels like they're being used) so this is new territory as if they use Anti-Cyber weaponry but the Daleks would gain the upper hand, which could lead to devastating consequences. As such, they need the Doctor and his companions to come step in and help.
When I first watched Army of ghosts/Doomsday I was really disappointed by their “fight” but after seeing the Tenth Planet it makes sense the Daleks would beat the Cybermen so easily because the Dalek ray is a radiation ray and Cybermen are weak to radiation as for future variants the Cybermen probably wouldn’t fair much better because a fair fight between them would be shunned by papa Nation
What annoys me about Doomsday is it's so one sided. The daleks as you say plowed through them and all the cybermen managed to do was make a dalek worry about it's casing for a bit.
it makes sense though. These were a special kind of daleks from the time war era, These cybermen only had technology on earth and only had been active for a short period of time. If these were regular classic dalek from the older series, im sure it would have been more challenging.
Not to promote myself too much here, but I did make a video testing my Dalek voice about the subject. I made the fanart for it, too. I apologize for shilling myself, I just think that it might delight some fans: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rVo_lP7xwFY.html&ab_channel=NickthePick That being said, I'd argue that the Bronze Daleks' shields aren't invincible, and neither are their casings with energy weapons. Keep in mind, they were fresh of the Time war, and the Satellite station was defenseless with weapons that stood no match. Bows and arrows against the lightning. Abslom Daak, the Dalek Killer, used his chainsword to cut them up into braces left and right, albeit they were pre-time war. It's also just their sheer numbers. Paradigm Daleks are the heavy hitters for sure, so the Cybermen need to look out for that. But the Cybermen seem to have more mobility now in comparison. Sure, the Daleks have levitation capabilities, but speed isn't their forte. Not saying that Cybermen are agile either tho, but they do have more ranges of movement is all I'm saying. In addition, the Cybermen seem to have little to no issue with adapting their bodies to new challenges, where the Daleks only alter their casings in subtle ways without a huge overhaul in design, mainly out of pride or strict programming(Think of their levitation upgrade, since they think that the concept of stairs and legs as wrong). Honestly, I say it depends on the era. I don't think anybody actually cares about who wins, more about the devastating war between the deadliest forces the Galaxy has to offer. If you ask me, 6 times out of 10 it's the Daleks, but only if they go all out in their approach and just send in paradigm Daleks. But that's just me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Nightmare in Silver variants were totally broken. And Missy seemed extremely confident in _Death In Heaven_ that an army of those Cybermen would be easily able to wipe out the Daleks.
If you think of the whole Cybermen mantra, it's that they're an inevitability. But the issue with that, primarily in 2006, is that the Cybus Cybermen are evolutionarily quite primitive compared to many Cybermen in the show. Their greatest victory in Doomsday was neutralising the Daleks for about a minute with the Preachers, but even that came with know how from the Doctor, and like I said it happened for a minute or so, thus it was a temporary reprieve. If you look at more developed Cybermen on the evolutionary scale, they've upgraded, and nothing makes this contrast more clearer than World Enough and Time, so whilst it'd be a far cry to say they could defeat the Daleks, I feel the Daleks would have a harder time of overrunning them.
Doomsday was great, but because it needed to focus so much on wrapping up the character arcs of Rose and her associated supporting cast, there wasn't much time for deeper dwelling on the differences between Daleks and Cybermen. They were just two races with robotic voices snarking at each other then blasting the shit out of each other. Camp and funny, but it could have been so much more. Because of that I'd love to see a new Daleks vs Cybermen story. Preferably, one that dwells on what each of their concepts says about humanity. Both the Daleks and the Cybermen were created from humans/human-like species, so it would be interesting to think about how humans become Daleks/Cybermen. The Kaleds/Thals genocidal hatred for each other for being different, despite being the same species, resulting in Davros turning them into creatures which would hate anything even slightly different. The humans on Mondas being so desperate to survive that they replaced their own bodies and stripped away their personalities, resulting in everything that made them who they are disappearing, resulting in creatures who think the only way to survive is to make everyone else like them too. "Cybermen suppress emotion. Daleks channel it". I mean, its the least the writers can do after we got the Cybermen being the Master's lackeys three times in a row.
Now? let's think. Daleks have good casing that only their weapons could breack. But Mr. Clever's cybermen could upgrade very quicklly to new situations. So maybe the Cybermen would get good and upgrade far enough that they'd be immune to the lazer thus not making them die, but still they'd be unable to kill a dalek since the daleks have good shields.
I don’t know anything about the Cybermen, I’m a hardline Dalek person to the point where I miss a lot of Doctor Who episodes that don’t have Daleks in them (because for a while you had to pay a ridiculous fee to get anything with BBC shows in my area and I wasn’t about to bend backwards for anything but the Daleks), but based upon what clips of them you’ve shown, the Daleks might have a REAL tough enemy. The Daleks CAN muster enough force to defeat almost anything with enough coordination, but they’ve got a real problem of never listening to their strategists, and they refuse to withdraw force from essential points that could allow them to fight back harder later because they’re too arrogant to believe they’d ever have to do such a thing, even when all their data is screaming at them to do it. So often are they complete and total obliterators that they panic when they come up against actual competition. So who knows! I would LOVE to see them fight. I’d love to see how the Daleks try to adapt to the Cybermen super abilities. Daleks think so quickly, the rel (1.2 seconds) is a decently long unit of time to them. They move slowly because they don’t typically *have* to be fast. They can lift cars, apparently. They communicate audibly mainly for cultural/social reasons, and their audible communication is always accompanied by much more in-depth exchanges of data-packets and information via Pathweb. The Daleks can do some crazy stuff if they try hard enough! As crazy as these new Cybermen? Let’s find out!!
What makes this very interesting is that the Cybermen are practically immortal and not technically life, so the daleks would have a philosophical (or at least have to think) about how to destroy the Cybermen.
@@dalekbumps What a great point of view! Ice and fire. I’ve always wondered why my brain fixates so hard on the Daleks and not the cybermen, as the cybermen are very neat and almost just as up my ally as the Daleks are. As cool as I think the cybermen are and enjoy cybermen stories though, the Daleks are just my niche I guess idk
@@alexbruckshaw1448 Yeah that is interesting! Daleks fight machines all the time, it’s weird in that they care AND they don’t about the whole “what is true death/destruction” question. the mechanoids weren’t technically life either. A few brainiac Daleks at the top of the paygrade might have to throw around terms like “sentience-behavior-class-of-civilization” etc to categorize things to themselves, but really the Daleks as a whole are more scared of the power threat, and the whole “consciousness/emotional intelligence” issue is a more nuanced one and one that only a few Daleks are going to spend time on. Most Daleks just care about destruction. Is the enemy still functional? Does it still exist in the functional state in which it previously existed as a singular instance of that enemy’s type? If the answer is no, then they have “destroyed” the instance of that enemy. That’s how the mechanoid war worked, anyway. I wonder if they take the same approach to the cybermen.
@@ayedunno3255 they really can't take the same approach. As the near immortalality of a cyber empire would mean the basic attack, conquer and inslave we see as the general dalek strategy ineffective.i would love to see a story where the daleks create a machine that can shut off Cybermen but not hurt them. A apsolute pasafistic weapon and the daleks have to argue over the morality of such a device.
I'd love to see it however there are two fairly big problems. Number one obviously is that most people want to see daleks vs daleks more and done properly a skirmish much like ressurection. And two most of us want to see the cybermen become scary again with means de-upgrading them slightly (human hands, paper face, sockets for eyes, etc) both of which means the daleks would easily win (experience) however that's not actually a bad thing as who would you rather win really? ....daleks... I'd assume
I would love to see these two enemies fight on screen again. Both races have gone through technological advances since their last (And only fight) fight, but with the universe expansion and the Cybermen being more advanced than beforewith their new speed and strength...as much as I love the Daleks, I think the Cybermen might win
@@dmaxwell910901 I think they can. In the story "Eve of the Daleks" when the Doctor uses her Sonic Screwdriver to 'disable' the Dalek's weapons it counters with "Daleks Learn!" and overrides the attepted shut down command. So why shouldn't the Cybermen be able to do something similar? With their new speed, shields and modifications in their armour I think they have a chance.
@@Poynton90 Honestly... that was just poor writing on Chibnal's part. If Time War Daleks could be stopped that way, we would've done so many times before in the RTD and Moffat eras.
Daleks are put out as a sort of universal threat accross all time, the cybermen more as a galactic power at most. - the problem is the bullshit adaption power that was added to the newWho cybermen , which makes no sense whatsoever (didnt in star treck either). Sufficient Dalek force should easily overcome it and most fighting would be between spaceships anyway. The cybermen were much more realistic in oldWho, and are definitely more body horror cenobyte types.
Daleks are _Superior_ Cybermens' ability to remove body parts is not useful, we could do that for them by the application of large amounts of energy. Their weaponry is _inferior_ it can not harm a Dalek, as such being able to move fast will only delay their inevitable _extermination_
It would be a fairer fight since our universe's Cybermen are more advanced than the Pete's World version. Ashad and Davros would likely debate it out but it would end in all-out war. The Daleks would still win but not without sustaining casualties.
I'd personally like see Daleks fight Sontarans, proud warrior race meets hatred incarnate. I didn't like the series 7 Cybermen. They became functionally the Borg, which was very uninspired given how Borg-like the Cybermen already were. They even have collective consciousness and can put exposed circuitry on people. There was very little exploration of the body-horror that make the Cybermen memorable, they were made too monster-of-the-week-ish, much like Moffat's approach to the Daleks.
I enjoy seeing two titans fighting, i would love to see a spin off doctor who movie featuring daleks and cybermen, it will be the greatest armour war in doctor who history.
There have been claims that the Cybermen in the episode Closing Time are actually Mondasians, aka Cybermen from the main universe. I'm still trying to figure out how that's possible, because they just look way too much like the Cybus/alternative Cybermen for it to be a coincidence. (granted, the production team probably didn't have the budget to redesign them, but I digress) Point I'm trying to get at, is, if that's the case and the Cyberiad Cybermen from Nightmare in Silver and beyond are Mondasians, ergo, were the ones to make those advancements we see in Nightmare and beyond, then I definitely think they would have more of an edge during a rematch against the Daleks; maybe not a fatal edge, but an edge nonetheless. Same can't be said for the Cybus Cybermen. Nope, in a rematch, they'd be creamed.
I'm pretty sure the explanation was an interaction between Cybus and Mondasian Cybermen also resulted in the ones in Closing Time, thus the Cybus look, but seeming more advanced technologies.
I don't count the doomsday battle as daleks vs cybermen because they weren't the real cybermen. Also it was ridiculously one sided and awful, not to mention a huge let down (the episode promised two things and delivered neither, daleks vs cybermen and the death of Rose, which is probably why I still dislike the story because I just remember how disappointing it was and like with both RTD and Moffat's eras they sometimes hyped things up and then failed to actually deliver). As for a battle with the real cybermen, if itbwere the nightmare in silver/lone cyberman era cybermen or the cybermasters then I think that the cybermen would have a good chance at winning, the former due to their ability to adapt and the latter due to their ability to regenerate, basically in both cases the daleks would have to change tactics and have their weapons set to full power and use special weapons daleks. I think that it would be an actual battle if they did it again, so I hope one day we actually get it.
Despite all their upgrades I always believed The Cyberiad Cybermen would be no worse at dying compared to their Cybus Ancestors. The only thing that would change would be firepower in which the Cyberiad weapons would be as powerful as the Human-Dalek Tommy Gunsticks. So 5 million Cyberiads would be more than enough to defeat 4 Daleks but maybe not all the Daleks in the Genesis Ark.
Depends who they are fighting. The Daleks' power yo-yos as much as the Cybermen do. If you're going with Nightmare in Silver, which was peak Cyber power as far as we know, you really have to go to peak Dalek which is Time War, and then it's back to no contest
Hi mate can you do a video on the reason why the paradigm daleks has the slats its because they were orignally supposed to have a weapon change feature hence the big bumps at the back where they would be stored and also series 6 was orginally gona have a 2 parter with the paradigm towards the end but was changed cause of the backlash!
